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Radio War Nerd EP #501 — Tecumseh, Pt. 1 + Ukraine War Rug-Pull (Patreon)

Published:
2025-02-16 17:01:16
Imported:
2025-02
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Recorded: February 13, 2025

The story of Tecumseh is too big to fit into the War of 1812 episode, so RWN is doing a 2-part series on Tecumseh. This episode: historical context of the hostile world Tecumseh was born into.

First - We discuss the Trump Admin's rug-pull on the Ukraine War cause.At 30:55 - The War Nerd dives into Tecumseh's back story

*Check out RWN #85 with guest William Hogeland on America's First Forgotten War 1790-4 and his book "Autumn of the Black Snake: The Creation of the U.S. Army and the Invasion That Opened the West" 

Total time: 1:22:33Direct link to this episode's mp3 here

*

Subscribe to Radio War Nerd at patreon.com/radiowarnerd

Sound production by Telescope Audio

Check out the Radio War Nerd Merch store here!

Order your print or ebook of John Dolan's new book Erdogan Pizza: Dispatches from a Violent & Grotesque World

Files

Comments

Benj

Looking forward to this having just read "Native Nations" by Kathleen Duval

Benj

Same out here on the Great Plains

Zach

Same in OH.

William

Even fucking Ukraine over, Trump is about to do more for them than the Biden admin ever did

Dongo

I can say that for at least a few generations of millennials Orson Scott Card is a foundational author as Ender’s Game is required reading in school. Really amazing book with big ideas. Card is known for being vehemently xenophobic and anti-LGBT despite portrayals of interethnic camaraderie/understanding and what many consider homo-erotic experiences in his books, particularly Ender’s game.

Standing the Gaff

I am pumped to hear this. I grew up in London, Ontario and my first job was on London's Tecumseh Avenue. As a kid we'd see re-enactments of the Battle of Longwoods near the historic recreation of Ska-Nah-Doht Village.

Lord-Admiral of the Pyrenees

I thought it was pronounced “Tec cum see”. In my hometown we have a Tecumseh Avenue and that’s how we pronounce it

Jane Allred

Enthusiasm for the Ukraine war has (for obvious reasons) been fairly strong and popular where I am in Edmonton, Alberta.

ploob

Awesome ep! Have you guys ever done anything on AIM movement, Standing Rock, et al. ?

Tristan

It may be common knowledge, but with all the talk of land and real estate in this period I was thinking about the Johhny Appleseed story. My understanding of it is that it represents a guy or type of guy from that period who would go out to the Midwest and speculate where a town may crop up ( river junction ect.) And plant a bunch of trees there and move on. Then in a decade when someone came around to settle the land, they had to pay the guy who had been "farming" his orchards there for the land rights. ie: left a ignorable crop on the land to do a real estate grab, basically. Scamming each other since day one

Clammy_Damp

Maybe an insane take but given Blinken and Austin’s ties to the arms industry, I don’t really think the loss in Ukraine is lamented. The point was stimulating the market. It’s post Clausewitz war

a clash of purple

Well, Card is a Mormon (a direct descendant of Brigham Young, in fact). His prejudices (and his politics in general) are informed by his religion. As for homoerotic experiences in Ender's Game, almost all of the characters are prepubescent children, so I think that's a bit silly to say. The first time any of the characters experiences sexual desire it's actually the one female student from Battle School, who gets horny for Bean in the Shadow books, years after the events in Ender's Game. It is funny that in Ender's Game, Ender's siblings become influential powerbrokers in international politics through shrewd blogging. Also the books portray eugenics as positive, producing the superhuman genetic ubermenschen (girls are too weak and soft though) that will lead humanity into the future. Basically it's what if Khan and the other genetically-engineered supermen who conquered 20th century Earth from Star Trek were the heroes. It's no surprise, therefore, that, much like Heinlein (and Tolkien, unfortunately), Card's writing had strong appeal for sensitive young boys who grew up to be socially maladjusted egomaniacal manchildren (I do not exclude myself from that category).

Dongo

Yeah fair enough. And yeah I also thought it was funny that bloggers took over the world in that book in retrospect lol

a clash of purple

I donno... isn't the takeaway more that Biden and Trump have the exact same Ukraine strategy, Trump is just honest about it? It's not like Biden and the Democrats are selfless defenders of European democracy and autonomy or whatever. Honestly I'm a little interested in what Ben Aris has to say about all this. I feel like the destruction of the Nord Stream 2 pipeline and Trump's show of contempt for Ukraine contradicts the way Aris talked about the West's attitude towards the conflict. The Ukrainians, the Poles, and the Germans might be more or less earnest about fighting Russia, but it's pretty clear by now that America is the only voice in NATO that matters, and both Democrats and Republicans never had anything but the nastiest, sleaziest, most cynical view of Ukraine. And the Ukrainian ruling class, for their part, are clearly more interested in cannibalizing as much of the country as they can before the Russians steal their place at the buffet table. All the talk about protecting democracy and standing up to Russian imperial aggression and blah blah blah rings incredibly hollow, at this point. It's no surprise that more and more Ukrainian soldiers are no longer willing to fight for a doomed cause just so their leaders can steal more money and the Americans can ghoulishly tally up the number of dead Russians.

drizzly_november

Way early on in ep #60 they talked to someone covering Standing Rock.

William

Biden and co essentially forced Ukraine to keep fighting no matter what; trump withdrawing support is going to force the conflict to come to an end. There’ll probably be stochastic violence by Nazi terrorists but the people of Ukraine will not be bombed every night

William

By giving up on Ukraine, the Trump admin is ruining one of the main pieces of the pivot to Asia; in other words, upending the existing strategy the US has had in the actual Great Game, played against anyone who challenges its hegemony. Geopolitically, the goal has been to control, or frustrate others’ control, of the world island, Eurasia AND Africa. This has been done by encircling Asia with NATO, Saudi Arabia, Japan, South Korea, the Philippines, Australia, etc. Biden and co probably hurt this more by escalating the Ukraine conflict but Trump is ending US involvement. In this light, it also makes sense why isreal matters so much, as it is a circuit breaker in-between Eurasia and Africa, pushing any commerce that goes between the two into the seas, where the angloid world is more dominant

Hans Anders

The EU is in panic mode over the comments in Munich. It’s really pathetic, because the main response is still “we should militarise and show the US we’re worth our spot in the imperial order”. And they still blame only Trump. Even though no US government would have supported Ukraine past their use against Russia

Kyle Erickson

Idk if this can count as a spoiler since it happened over two centuries ago, but the Northwest Indian War ended with a rug-pull by the British, not unlike what the US is doing to Ukraine at the moment. When the Battle of Fallen Timbers ends in an Indian rout, they run toward the British fort Miami, thinking they’ll find refuge inside. “We’ve been good clients to the British. They’ve invested a lot of guns and money in us- at the very least they’ll want to use us again some other time!” Wrong- the British locked them out! “Sorry old chaps, great power politics, n all that.”

Fr0id

Hey y’all. I loved your recent episode. I had a couple comments. 1. Orson Scott Card was “cancelled” not for misspeaking about gender but because he was openly anti gay marriage as well as anti gay in general. I haven’t read his work and can’t speak to its value but I think it’s worth knowing the guy was a virulent and vocal homophobe for most of his later life. 2. You mentioned the idea of an “alien invasion” multiple times. I recently watched “Without Warning” and I think you’d really like it. It’s about aliens making contact with mankind and things going…well. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6J4pfT2qLb4 you can rent a higher video quality version off amazon

A

Only 6 million natives left in both north and South America at the time? Idk if I heard that right but I don't think that's accurate.

Doug Cartel

It's been said before but body counts are the loser's way of coping, like when they go "well at least we killed all those jews and russians" or "well at least we killed all those vietnamese/gazans/union soldiers etc" They cant point to having achieved any political objectives so they cope through death counts instead.

a clash of purple

It's been a little ridiculous seeing the WaPo publish articles about the Europeans and Ukrainians feeling upset and offended that Trump hasn't bothered including them in his talks with Putin. It's like, why would they think they get a say in anything? What did they think this is? If the Europeans want someone to care what they have to say, they really need to ditch NATO, abandon this ridiculous American obsession with militarism and brinksmanship, and show that they're willing to stand up to the U.S.. Otherwise, they should get used to being ignored and taken for granted. To be totally honest, this is an instance where, as an American, I find it a little gratifying to watch Trump in action. The most important thing is the suffering of the Ukrainian people, who certainly didn't ask for any of this. But it is cathartic to have a U.S. leader calmly and explicitly tell "our European allies" that, if they're going to be our cringing little Renfields, then they shouldn't expect anyone to treat them as respected, valued partners. They didn't object to us blowing up their pipeline, they didn't lift a finger to stop our genocide in Gaza, so they should shut up, eat Trump's shit, and stop pretending they don't love it.

Patrick Fitzgerald

My dumbass NJ high school was called Shawnee. Class of 84 Renegades. Our yearbook was called Tecumseh. Despite the long overdue moves to get rid of racist, Native American sports mascots, those names are still in use as far as I know.

Jason Thompson

“The Genocides” is such an awesome novel. Little things like how (in the one chapter sorts told from the aliens’ perspective) the aliens mention they lost X craft due to “mechanical failures”, so presumably humans did shoot down X number but humanity was still utterly destroyed. If anyone wants to read it, it does descend into “humans doing horrible things to each other” territory as the book goes on… cuz there’s no way they can fight the aliens, so it’s mostly infighting… but fhis is written so well ans bleakly it doesn’t annoy me like it does in other apocalyptic novels. Astounding book, and also sorta amazing (to me at least) that basically no other SF alien-invasion writer has had the stomach to doom humanity so thoroughly at novel length. Usually if authors wanna show everyone on earth dying they just write a short story and that’s enough to get the picture. Not Disch!! And 95% of alien-invasion novels ans films are in the Independence Day jingoistic mode where humanity conquers in the end.

Jason Thompson

Oh, but what is the giant lizard “invasion” story?? I can’t believe I never heard of that one!!

Tariq

I loved Enders Game when i read it and was very bummed to find out OSC was a freak.

Tariq

i’ve seen similar estimates around, that appears to be the current consensus.

radiowarnerd

Sorry but I've never been able to find it again. I think it's a British writer.

radiowarnerd

I didn't know at the time, but I found it just now after a long search. It's "Heresies of the Giant God" by Brian Aldiss. Aldiss is a very interesting writer. He did a rather haunting memoir of his time in SE Asia, returning there decades after the war. And was it him who wrote those very weird novels about a world of revived dinosaurs, mixed up with time-traveling witches and other gunk?

radiowarnerd

Sorry, should be "Heresies of the HUGE God," not "Giant God."

David Andrews

You two always come up with such interesting topics.

Bodie Tack

Thanks for making this a two-parter. Tecumseh is a fascinating character in a fascinating time period in North American history. The period around the turn of the 19th century was the last time where there was some amount of parity between the various tribal coalitions, fledgling US state, and British interests atempting to shape the future of the continent. Of all the popularly-known native American military leaders, most were essentially famous for "holding out" against the odds in an unwinnable struggle, but Tecumseh was the only one imo whose strategy and success could've meaningful altered the course of history in the US.

Ander Pierce

Yeah I hear that. Turns out religious fundamentalists can write good books too. Still enjoy his work even if his politics are disappointing. There is a bit of irony given the overt homoerotic themes in some of his books.

Jason Thompson

Thank you! I found a reading on YouTube! What an amazing story! (And somehow, even more depressing than I imagined it would be). The only Aldiss novel I have read is “Graybeard,” his dystopia about a future where children haven’t been born in ~50 years (apparently written when he was separated from his wife & kids)

Jason Thompson

There’s a rather good comic apocalyptic novel called “Enormity” by W.G. Marshall which is about (mere) mile-high giants, respect to Aldiss for depicting even more thorough devastation

Jason Thompson

Oh! Aldiss also wrote another book I read… “Bow Down to Nul” aka “The Interpreter,” which is explicitly a 1960s “what if aliens treated humans like the British empire treated natives” novel. I can’t recommend it though, every plot twist is fairly obvious.

etienne

I find it odd to say there wasn't sympathy for Ukraine given the number of people who started flying the blue yellow flag off their balcony or windows in real life. Maybe not appetite for hot war but definitely tons of people were spiritually supporting them

etienne

Speaker for the Dead and Xenocide were really poignant. sad that all the end of the day all that made a mark is the book about the kid who's good at video game real time straregy in space

JoR

I guess the flip side is "how many Americans actually wave the flag." anecdotally it's a decent amount where I live, definitely more than any other foreign war/entity. But it's still extremely insignificant in the grand scheme of things. I think John mostly meant in comparison to, say, an American war like Iraq, and how the average Americans openly reacts to that war

etienne

the number of ppl who still have the little flag in their social media avvi too, like my mom

Mangomoosh

That’s what a noble death song gets you! 🫡

Fr0id

I’m mostly disappointed that no one watched Without Warning. It is an excellent and heartbreaking piece about alien contact.

Crosley Querin

I think Trump is angling for the 300bn in frozen Russian assets.

Mark Ames

AIM would be an interesting episode, to go with 70s insurgencies...