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Radio War Nerd EP #96 — Sino-India War of 1962 (Patreon)

Published:
2017-08-07 21:16:54
Edited:
2020-06-22 02:32:37
Imported:
2026-06

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Content

Guest: Aditya  

China and India have been trading hot words and menacing editorials this summer over a border dispute in Bhutan, where both Chinese and Indian forces have crossed borders and made threats. The roots of this go back to the little-known 1962 Sino-India War, which ended in humiliating defeat for Nehru. Fellow war nerd Aditya Velivelli, originally from Hyderabad, walks us through events in the 1950s between India and China, and the disastrous finalé in the 1962 war, which was fought on two vastly different border fronts: In India's far northeast frontier border with Tibet, and in the disputed Kashmir region in India's far northwest, in the Aksai Chin plateau.

Some useful maps:

1. Battlefronts in 1962 war: Kashmir region in NW (Aksai Chin); Arunachal Pradesh state in NE ("Southern Tibet" acc to China).

2. Close-up map of NW theater in Kashmir. Aksai Chin taken by China, highway linking Tibet with Xinjiang running through Aksai Chin.

3. Closeup map of NE theater in India's Arunachar Pradesh state (called "North East Frontier Area" or NEFA, in 1962). Worst battles took place in far west corner of Arunachar Pradesh, ie Bhutan's northeast edge.

4. Map of 2017 standoff in "tri-junction" area in Bhutan's far northwest

Total time: 2:14:10

Direct link to this episode's mp3 here. 

Suggested reading: 

"Himalayan Blunder" by JP Dalvi 

"India and the China Crisis" by Steven A Hoffman

 "1962: The War That Wasn't" by Shiv Kunal Verma

Files

Comments

Patrick Reilly

Thanks for the maps! Always a big help in following campaign histories.

Avery

I like how John calls Non-Aligned internationalist moralism "archaic". RIP Gandhi, RIP Charles Dickens, long live liberal hypocrisy, long live Schmitt

The Fakir

Hugely enjoyed the excerpt from J. Dalvi's book. Will read it soon ! One aspect worth pointing out, such was the monumental incompetence of Mr. Nehru (not attributable to him being a “humanitarian” (Ames’s words) but to being an idealistic and slightly senile old man) that only 2 divisions fought the Chinese, outnumbered 6-1 in many places. The air force sat out the war as well. a good book for this podcast to buy for future episodes that might involve India is this <a href="https://www.amazon.com/Indias-Wars-Military-History-1947-1971/dp/9351777499" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://www.amazon.com/Indias-Wars-Military-History-1947-1971/dp/9351777499</a> Nehru actually gave up the Indian missions in Kashgar and Lhasa inherited from the British. I’m afraid the word “idealism” does not cover this (see <a href="http://claudearpi.blogspot.de/2013/05/the-orginal-sin-closure-of-indian.html" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">http://claudearpi.blogspot.de/2013/05/the-orginal-sin-closure-of-indian.html</a> and other posts on that blog.. the man seems to access to interesting source material).. one needs to access more pejorative adjectives. Insane, perhaps. Idiotic, maybe. And Nehru did not “also do highschool” in Britain, he went to Harrow (which, along with Eton is where the aristocracy of the empire sent their children to learn how to be good sahibs). Harrow and then Cambridge. Why wouldn’t people like Mao look upon him as bourgeoisie, reactionary ? To the question of how good he was on Domestic policy - much better. Focused on higher education and large projects like dams and steel plants. Remarkably, for a socialist, ignored primary education. Less remarkably for a socialist, told people forced into slums as huge dams drowned their ancestral villages that it was all “for the greater common good”. These are words that others - who the hosts might call reactionary and anti humanitarian - have used in similar contexts again and again (see <a href="http://www.narmada.org/gcg/gcg.html" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">http://www.narmada.org/gcg/gcg.html)</a> This can be said for Nehru on domestic policy : Many young countries in India’s neighborhood fell apart in one way or another once their colonial masters left. In those early years, Nehru and other leaders of nascent India (the episode mentioned Patel) did enough to lay the foundations of a coherent nation. For that, despite his utterly clueless foreign policy, he deserves credit. Some of the most interesting aspects of the war are the repercussions and reactions in Indian military and foreign policy. It was unfortunate that these were not discussed (save for some banal statements about how it remains a raw wound... not even sure that is true. In military circles, perhaps. In terms of policy decisions, some are still influenced by old defeats, of course. In angry nationalist discourse 1962 and China do not figure prominently at all, nor do large numbers of Indians today care very much for Tibet, certainly, this is not part of our national discourse. No one in India looses sleep over the fact that Tibet is not free, except washed up old Hollywood personalities). The implications as regards to the current stand off near Doklam seemed especially lightly sourced. Indian military organization changed immensely post the 1962 war. I'm far from an expert, but some highlights - - A "secret army" of highly trained Tibetans under the intelligence agency RAW was set up. This force, called the Special Frontier Force continues to exist and its exact composition and mission are unclear, but it is reported to have around 10000 troops specialising in guerrilla warfare behind enemy lines. (see <a href="https://warontherocks.com/2017/01/hard-men-in-a-hard-environment-indian-special-operators-along-the-border-with-china/" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://warontherocks.com/2017/01/hard-men-in-a-hard-environment-indian-special-operators-along-the-border-with-china/)</a> - The Indian army grew 1.5 times in size by the time the war with Pakistan happened in 1965. The expected capitulation did not take place, and the better equipped Pakistani forces were fought to a standstill. Oddly, it was American (rather than Soviet) help that enabled this rapid buildup. In a decade, by 1972, the army the army fought on two fronts so successfully, that East Pakistan became independent Bangladesh (and whatever you might say of Pakistani troops, you cannot accuse them of not being able to fight.) - After the 1962 war, the policy of not building roads in border areas persisted for a few decades. Ostensibly, this was because it was thought building roads would only make it easier for the Chinese to invade. Such immensely defeatist and myopic thinking is clearly a consequence of the humiliation inflicted in 1962. This policy was reversed relatively recently while Chinese infrastructure development continued, leading to India raising 2 new mountain strike corps in the last 5 years and putting a lot more infrastructure in place. (as ever, and with everything in India, each aspect of everything is plagued with corruption, delays and inefficiencies. So who knows how effective any of this really is...) There is a lot more to say on the subject, but I suppose everyone is in a position to google :) a couple of other interesting links : - Indian infantry officer questioning the importance of Doklam <a href="https://thewire.in/162114/india-china-war-consequences-doklam/" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://thewire.in/162114/india-china-war-consequences-doklam/</a> - Excellent tactical account of Doklam <a href="https://t.co/QnkUHGbDzW" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://t.co/QnkUHGbDzW</a> - Overview of the legal basis for India and China’s position (TL;DR both equally valid) <a href="http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/08/02/how-long-can-china-and-india-avoid-war-in-the-himalayas/" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/08/02/how-long-can-china-and-india-avoid-war-in-the-himalayas/</a>

Patrick Reilly

Wow! Thanks for the additional viewpoint and resource pointers. More clearly contextualizing Nehru's level of Anglo-Tosh indoctrination especially valuable. And he was so close to the Mountbattens . . . .

Mike Towry

As near as I can recall, I first learned of the Sino-Chinese conflict as a kid from an early Thor comic, Journey Into Mystery #93 dated June, 1963. In it, Thor briefly intervenes on the side of India by stopping a Chinese armored attack. This upsets Mao Tse-Tung who demands that his people come up with a way to stop Thor and thus is born the "Radio-Active Man." A synopsis, cover, and a few pages of Thor vs. the Chinese Army are at <a href="https://marvelheroeslibrary.com/comics/comic-info.aspx?book=Journey+Into+Mystery+(1952+series)&comic=JIM-93" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://marvelheroeslibrary.com/comics/comic-info.aspx?book=Journey+Into+Mystery+(1952+series)&comic=JIM-93</a>

Brian Shaw

Love the podcast. I was curious to know your opinion of Isaac Babel. It would be interesting to hear a podcast about the Polish-Soviet war alongside a discussion of Babels Red Cavalry stories.