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Radio War Nerd EP #216 — Passenger Airliner Shootdowns (Patreon)

Published:
2020-01-31 21:24:48
Edited:
2020-02-05 04:34:29
Imported:
2026-06
Tags:

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Content

Recorded: January 29, 2020

Guest: "Jared," pilot

BANGKOK— The War Nerd thumbs his nose at the conovirus from his rental in Bangkok, Thailand, the country with the second largest death count . . . The Nerd and Ames look at current war news, from confessions of a Salvadoran dirty war commander, to wars in the Gulf and the Sahel . . . After the break, we talk to pilot Jared about what it's like to navigate a passenger plane. Finally, we do a brief history of passenger plane shoot-downs . . . 

At 02:08 - we talk coronavirus, disaster-fantasy & Sinophobia;

At 19:40: War News — El Mozote massacre confession...Trump-Bibi's ludicrous "peace plan"...Yemen's Houthi rebels advance against Saudi "coalition"...UAE deploying mercenaries into Libya civil war...Iran rocket attack on US base in Iraq left 50+ US soldiers with traumatic head wounds, US spy plane shot down over Afghanistan...Ivory Coast heating up, sectarian massacres in Burkina Faso...

At 1:05:30 - Discussion with "Jared", a US commercial pilot, to help demystify navigation systems & flying planes

At 1:42:28 - A brief history of passenger airplane shoot-downs 

Illustrations

*US reporting on Soviet accidental shoot-down of KAL 007 (left) vs US reporting on accidental shoot-down of Iran Air 655 (right)

*KAL 007 flight path vs intended flight path

*Reagan disinformation warriors exploit KAL 007 shoot-down to devastating effect

Total time: 2:27:03

Direct link to this episode's mp3 here  

Files

Comments

CR

Jay Sea

Careful out there War Nerd! Don’t accept any blankets!

Barticus Maximus

Good stuff. Sounds like a part 2 is in order

Allen Brambleshire

Dam I didn't know you were looking for airline pilots! You got one right here! Man I woulda went off about the 737max!

One Day Apps

Hey folks, another pilot here (although not for an airline, just for fun). I'm a bit older than your airline pilot guest so a couple of clarifications that came up: A C47 is the same airplane as a DC3, that's why it would be denoted as civilian. If it was listed as a C47 it was probably a military airplane that was sold and repurposed for civilian use, otherwise it would be called a DC3 on its registration info. ADS-B and GPS in aviation came out of the Alaska FAA office in the 1990s. Just as Area 51 is the military's test bed, Alaska is the FAA's test bed for civilian aviation hardware. It's the harshest terrain and harshest weather we have in US territory, so fairly self-explanatory why they're the sandbox. Until GPS came along the accident rate in Alaska was horrendous, and included a couple of congressmen over the years as well. Since there are places in Alaska that are populated but inaccessible except by boat and air, flying is a fact of life for some people up there. GPS and ADS-B were the answer to mid-air collisions in places that are cut off from air traffic control, like mountain passes where airplanes tend to run into helicopters if both happen to be in there at the same time. The idea is that there's a screen in every aircraft that shows all of the other aircraft nearby, with GPS positional accuracy. UPS was the original civilian contractor for the gear, and it was later bought from them by Garmin who is the main provider today. We started getting this stuff in general aviation before the airlines did, and it's still fairly new. I had it in a small airplane in 2014 as an early adopter. It has only been required equipment for everyone, including airlines, as of this year. As your guest mentioned the airline and private jet crowds have TCAS for collision avoidance, so ADS-B is a redundant system for them and there was some pushback from the industry lobbyists on requiring them to have it. Sadly ironic, but the local FAA office administrator from Alaska that was responsible for the GPS / ADS-B program was also killed in a mid-air collision. https://www.airspacemag.com/flight-today/alaskas-crash-epidemic-70259395/?page=1 https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/2001/07/04/a-sense-of-loss-gives-faa-sense-of-urgency-to-improve-air-safety/17020c30-50b4-403b-9754-31fd99c11403/ I'll go ahead and predict that you can blame all of this for the Kobe Bryant situation as well. 3D terrain displays generated from GPS position are another nifty modern byproduct of computers and GPS in aircraft. I had it in the last airplane I owned and it saved my life once (took off toward a dark mountain at night and the landing gear wouldn't retract, thus retarding my climb speed and making the odds of clearing the mountain a questionable proposition). A helicopter contractor who was restricted to visual weather on their company license (part 135 certificate) wouldn't have any reason to buy one, though. I found pics of the panel in that helicopter and there was no terrain display in there when it was sold to the company Kobe leased it from, and since that company's FAA license restricted them to visual weather conditions they would have had no motivation to retrofit an aftermarket one. Imagine flying into fog-covered mountain passes that you suddenly can't see and don't have a screen to display like a video game for you, and realizing that you're stuck and don't know how to get out. Probably a feeling not very dissimilar from your feeling of being stuck in a cave...

Ellen Harold

About the Corona virus: what's alarming is not the number of deaths but the rate of increase of verified cases of infection. It could change, but right now it appears to double every six days. As everyone knows, a small number that doubles every few days can become an extremely big number in a very short time. A two percent mortality rate seems low, but two percent of four billion people is 80 million. The other thing is that these viruses are continually evolving by mutation in an arms race with their animal hosts' immune systems. The Spanish flu, which was mentioned, had a mild early wave but then mutated in an extremely lethal second wave, which caused most of the fatalities. Anyway, hopefully a vaccine is on the way -- sooner or later.

Jimothy Realname

Also, the 10% hospitalization rate is really really bad. The US has something like 100k intensive care beds (and probably not enough ventilators for all of them), so that means that if there were a million cases in the US, the healthcare system would be completely overwhelmed.

Paul Vd

There's NO chance that the Ukraine Iran flight shoot down was an accident. No chance at all. Look at the top down and side radar. Out of all 10 flights that day , it was the one most accurately in its designated flight corridor. There is just NO WAY a flight taking off exactly how it's supposed to, could have been mistaken as a cruise missile. This would be like a armed bank guard , shooting the 10th customer who walked in and lined up to the next available ATM or teller. It's not possible. Either it was an IRGC 5th column that did it on purpose. Or the IRGC itself did it on purpose. 63 Canadians were as close to Americans that they could get. Iran vs USA is the most ruthless great power conflict of today. It's nasty. Maybe they did it to show that starting things has a cost. And it sort of worked. Trudau & some business leaders blamed Trump

Paul Vd

The MetroJet crash full of Russians over Egypt was caught on video Just as the Ukraine jet in Iran was. Anything in a great power war zone is not an accident

Freddy K.

The link in the email does not work! Please fix.

AJ

Good show. I enjoyed the pilots perspective. Wish you guys discussed this incident: Pakistan Air Force intercepted indian SpiceJet with the wrong transponder codes and didn’t shoot it down. Also how Pakistan shut down it’s air space after indian failed air strikes in Feb 2019. I’m a huge fan of Mr Dolan and Mark Ames but they don’t give enough credit to Pakistan. https://www.google.com/amp/s/gulfnews.com/amp/world/asia/pakistan-f-16s-intercept-spicejet-flight-after-code-confusion-1.1571357694163

Matthew C

Hey guys you forgot the : after the http, if you add it back the link works

Mark Ames

Looks like we'll have to do a part deux!

Mark Ames

Thanks for this, explains that article about the early Cold War shoot-downs (and probably explains why the DC3's might've been mistaken for C47s)

Allen Brambleshire

Hit me up on here or FB if you ever need anything. Or if you just wanna talk planes, I live in bushwick!

Mark Ames

Fixed it. Apologies to all, the whacky hyperlink default keeps tripping us up

Mark Ames

ugh yeah ain't the first time, probly ain't the last for this dinodummy. Fixed it (hopefully)

JoR

On episode 175 with Annibale says, while discussing his interest in the Middle ages, "my main interests of study isn't the middle ages, but the politics in 20th century Italy, and the eastern front in world War II". It was a throw away line, but if Annibale only had some of the interest in the 100 years war, he could be the one guest who could cover the Eastern Front of ww2 on the show. I know both Mark and John really don't like discussing ww2 for obvious reasons, but I feel like it should be covered eventually, even if it's just a few episodes on the eastern front.

Chuck Petras

So here’s a backgrounder on ADS-B https://flightaware.com/adsb/ which is a signal aircraft are required to broadcast. This is popular for open-source intelligence #OSINT. These are two of the larger ADS-B aggregators https://flightaware.com/ https://www.flightradar24.com/ For instance, here are a couple of recent incidents captured by these services https://www.flightradar24.com/blog/kobe-bryant-believed-dead-in-helicopter-crash/ https://www.flightradar24.com/blog/ukrainian-flight-ps752-crashes-shortly-after-take-off-from-tehran/ For maritime, there are other aggregators (that use a different data format) https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/home/centerx:-12.0/centery:25.0/zoom:4 https://www.vesselfinder.com/ In other #OSINT news, the satellite imaging TerraServer has shut down. https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/xgqggw/satellite-imagery-service-used-by-human-rights-investigators-abruptly-shuts-down oOo

radiowarnerd

It should and we have covered various fronts, but not the Eastern Front as an entire episode, and it does deserve that.