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Radio War Nerd EP #217 — Video War Games (Patreon)

Published:
2020-02-16 00:02:01
Edited:
2020-02-16 20:54:05
Imported:
2026-06
Tags:

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Content

Guest: Gunnar Hrafn Jónsson, journalist 

Recorded: February 11, 2020

TOKYO—It's been a long time coming, and now here it is at last: remedial survey of video/computer war games that even your Luddite hosts can understand. We're lucky to be joined by journalist & ex-parliamentarian (Pirate) Gunnar Hrafn Jónsson (RWN EP #28, EP #38, EP #82), who happens to be an avid gamer and can explain them & provide a useful taxonomy that will both interest you gamer pedants without losing us Stone Age types.

A brief outline of Gunnar's discussion:

Real Time Strategy:Command and Conquer seriesAge of Empires seriesTotal War series

Turn based warfare:Panzer General seriesParadox Games (Europa Universalis, Crusader Kings, Hearts of Iron, Stellaris)X-Com and related games 

First person shooters and RPGs:Call of duty seriesAmerica’s ArmyFallout seriesAssassin’s Creed seriesFortnite and clones of itTom Clancy gamesSwat 3 (cop simulator)WolfensteinRed Dead Redemption

Oddities:Nuclear WarConflict: Middle East Political SimulatorBalance of PowerShadow PresidentHidden AgendaJFK ReloadedFloor 13SpycraftContraFlight simulators, ship simulators and tank simulators in general   

Some images:

*Call Of Duty: Massacre Russians in Domodedevo Airport

*Total War: Three Kingdoms

*Stellaris

*Cossacks

*Floor 13

*The future of gaming

Total time: 2:08:36

Direct link to this episode's mp3 here 

Files

Comments

One Day Apps

Can confirm, the low end of government-approved FAA flight training devices are just specialized setups for Microsoft Flight Sim or X-Plane (which anyone can buy on Steam). I get that I'm old, but it's still quite disturbing that the state university I attended in the US now has video game "athlete" scholarships... Mark, since you're familiar with the Battlefield series you should really play the original one (Battlefield: 1942) for a different take on the topic of video game diversity. They presented all nationalities and races in WW2 as comical Colonel Klink-type idiots. The voice-overs for all of the "radio commands" that a player could send to other players in the game were done with native language speakers, but each one was stereotypical to the point of farce, which was definitely part of the charm at the time but probably would cause an infinite amount of pearl-clutching today. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cR1ba0VwpS0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvkkBrYPMkg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGIvY-_sDf0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YD2w16bMdK4 There *WAS* a commercially produced Battlefield: Vietnam. It was the successor to Battlefield: 1942 and largely a commercial failure because it wasn't conducive to what people consider fun about war games. You're walking around a jungle and get shot by people you don't see, or killed by booby traps you never saw coming before you were dead. There were American helicopters (flown by the player) that were grossly powerful and not really counter-able by the VC/NVA side, for reasons not the least of which being that bamboo / thatch roof huts don't offer any protection from the rockets shot out of a Cobra helicopter. And while the Cobra pilot may be king for a few minutes, he could also be shot down at any moment by a guy who drew a lucky spawn point with an RPG. They really put a lot of effort into creating an immersive Vietnam experience, and found out by a grand experiment for millions of dollars in development money that the Vietnam war did in fact suck for everyone participating in it. The Vietnam game was such a failure that the company called the next sequel "Battlefield 2" to erase the memory of Vietnam entirely. "2" started the sequence of games in the US vs Middle East setting which is more palatable for a video game simply because the desert terrain and more rigid urban environments are conducive to what people like about hypothetically killing each other.

Gary Alexander

With respect to the discussion about interpersonal relationships, of the sort that Bernie Sanders finds tedious: One game I'll elaborate on (I could do it for a lot, but I'm restraining myself here) is Crusader Kings 2. Unlike most others of its category you are not playing ~as~ a state, but rather as an individual who is a member of a dynasty; and your character's relationships with other characters (vassals, lords, coutiers, family members, etc.) determines your options. These relationships are based on character traits (virtues and vices, physical attributes), actions (roleplaying-game like consequences), and power dynamics, all of which can be manipulated to various ends. For example, you may want to award a fief to a useful courtier, but your jealous councilors block it, requiring you to replace them (which angers them, something that matters if they're vassals, or if they might join a plot against you) or change their minds somehow. Find that annoying? Work over the long term to disempower the council!

Ander Pierce

As far as historical sims/rpgs go, Kingdom Come: Deliverance is pretty incredible. Very historically accurate simulation of a blacksmith's son in 15th century Bohemia

sympatheticjargon

i'm gonna choose to interpret this episode as the soft launch of the war nerd twitch channel

ramshackle

I'd love to hear your take on This War of Mine. One of the few games I've managed to play in recent years and a heartbreaking slow grind that's still fun to play. Made by a polish studio and based on the civilian experience during the siege of Sarajevo. The whole point is to show war from a civilian perspective and it does it well. Point and click, lots of resource management, no fast reflexes needed.

Alistair Davidson

I've said it before and I'll say it again: pair John with someone who knows how to play EU4 or HOI2 or Stellaris (I'd gladly do it for one, bet you'd have a million volunteers though). Have him make the big decisions while someone else does the mechanics. Twitch stream it for charity.

Jon_dog

It's always interesting to hear someone describe video games from an outsiders' perspective, as long as they put in the effort to care, otherwise it sounds like they are describing something completely alien. Age of Empires was never really about line formations, but a scissors, paper, rock type strategy of different units that counter each other. AoE III was a bit different as guns and unit formations featured prominently. Also the screenshot above was a bit confusing until I realised it was Cossacks II, not AoE. I wouldn't really call the Paradox games turn based, they are known as grand strategy, because time passes, but can be sped up, slowed down or even paused to make a series of decisions. nowhere near as stressful or teeth gritting as RTS, but they can still be nerve-wracking as you wait for enemies to make their decisions, see the outcome of a battle or for resources to accumulate so you can finally make an important purchase. Outside of Civilisation, I don't know of many turn based historical war games, they are generally SFF stuff like Advance Wars, Fire Emblem or Endless Legend/Space. It is often interesting which wars get covered in popular media, and which don't. As noted in the show, there are barely any Vietnam or WWI games, they are mostly failures, mods or alternative game modes using the base of another game.

Kevin Walsh

I will probably have more to say when I have listened to the episode, but the obvious next step is board games. One to look into would include Twilight Struggle, Risk: Legacy, Labyrinth: the War on Terror, the COIN series, Star Wars: Age of Rebellion, and Root.

Gerhard Stoltz

One thing you guys really should've dug into a bit in this episode is stuff like the Arma series and Digital Combat Simulator : World. The entire ecosystem of community groups surrounding both games are pretty fascinating. Arma being a game best enjoyed in a group has hundreds of "units" you can play with with varying degrees of organization, from 100% milsim where everything is by the book and more relaxed environments where people come together just to play around in a semi-organized manner. The same with DCS, you have everything from people doing the best recreation they can of actual air doctrine and skills to people who just come together to shoot missiles at one another. Both games are really good examples of both self-organization in the gaming community, and how the same game can be played in a myriad of ways whilst still being fun and a collective experience.

Gerhard Stoltz

Also, there's Command : Modern Operations which is a Jane's readers wet dream gaming wise with every system ever developed available in a myriad of historical scenarios from the fifties onwards. Oh, and about the stresses of drone pilots if anybody reads this and haven't already seen Good Kill with Ethan Hawke and Bruce Greenwood then they really should.

Gerhard Stoltz

And if you're waay into Guns n Ammo there's Escape From Tarkov, which is as near-realistic systems wise as you can get in a game these days that also has an incredible gun modding aspect. Well worth to check out a video of.

John

Defcon is another interesting game for watching all those beautiful missile launches.

Simon Esders

Man, Floor 13 and Hidden Agenda are such good deep cuts.

Andrew J

Huge, huge, huge, huge, huge, huge props for bringing up "Papers, Please" in this episode and both John and Mark's reactions to the premise of the game.

Gerhard Stoltz

Oh dear god, the twitch experience i never knew i needed. That would be hilarious.

Gerhard Stoltz

Oh, one more and then i'll shut up. For the Civil War Nerd there's Ultimate General : Civil War, which is really well made and not too taxing controls-wise.

Gerhard Stoltz

I super lied. Just remembered that Flashpoint Campaigns : Red Storm and Armored Brigade exists. Which is great if you're a late cold war fulda gap junkie. And Wargame : Red Dragon if you want something that trends a bit more towards the RTS side of the same.

Torgeir Tannenwald

Have a suspicion my man Mark Ames is describing Empire: Total War, or Napoleon: Total War. When he's talking about Age of Empires. The most popular AoE games by far are set in the classical/medieval period.

Jimothy Realname

I played AoE 3 and it did have a 1600s-1700s timeframe. But it also wasn't very good

Jimothy Realname

Shoutout to any of my companeros who played Red Orchestra: Ostfront 41-45 back in the day

Spinna

The picture posted for "Age of Empires" is actually a screenshot of the game "Cossacks" (I think actually the Napoleonic based sequel). The series is interesting because of the time frame but also because it was developed by a Ukrainian company and they intentionally focused on Eastern Europe (even including a "Ukrainian" civilization).

Mark Ames

fixed it, thanks. I feel like Starman here, my ignorance is so touching.

Mark Ames

To an Unfrozen Caveman Gamer like myself, an Empire's an Empire

JoR

Overall I think Gunnar did a great job discussing such a broad topic. Mentioned a few times in the episode was opportunities for "alt histories". One game that gives you ample opportunity to divulge in this is the Civilization series (one game I was surprised was not mentioned). It's a turn base strategy that uses history as more of a basis for creativity, rather then a lot of games mentioned like the paradox games that focuses on historical realism and accuracy. Basically in civilization (there's 6 total over 20+ years) at the beginning of a "match", you pick one of many civilizations (each with distinct characteristics and play styles), you start with one city in 4000 bc, and you progress through the game until the modern Era, building cities, researching technologies, and conquering or getting conquered along the way. Throughout the game the "eras" progress based on technology, and in each Era as technologies are researched, more units (ranging from spearmen and archers, to eventually tanks and planes) and buildings for cities become available. Again its turn based, so it's a good game to play at your own pace, but it can get very addicting. While it bases the civilizations and game concepts on history, most matches you'll play are randomized, and very often you'll be on a randomly generated earth with non-historically accurate neighbors (for example, you can start as the Aztecs, and you closest neighbors may be England and China, and across the world the Inca may start). This is already a really long comment but in terms of war game play it varies by game. But overall you build your armies, and position them in ways that'll lead you to conquests. But it's more "broad" then other war strategy games. It's hard to discuss in text but there's a lot of potential logistical issues (for example, you need resources for most units, iron and horses for example.you'll have iron mines in your territory that provide iron. As your armies are in another civilization's territory conquering, your enemy may send quicker units to pillage your iron mines, which makes your iron-using units much less effective). Again with all the games mentioned it'd be hard to try them all but civilization, especially civilization v, was always a favorite of mine because it was able to create a world where you actually are just one nation competing against others in diplomacy, war, technological advancement and culture, and every match could have different civilizations performing in different ways.

Kevin Walsh

Peter Heather in, I think, Empires and Barbarians, argued that the primary benefits of converting to Christianity for Eastern European pagan barbarians were (a) the diplomatic benefits of ceasing to be a "barbarian" and becoming part of "civilisation", (b) the ability to levy the tithe and (c) the ability to use your Christianity as a pretext to attack all of your pagan rivals. It pleases me to say that, if you play an Eastern European pagan in Crusader Kings 2, then (a) and (c) are actually extremely strong reasons to convert to Christianity.

Spinna

If I may be more of a pedant, the developers of "Cossacks" actually made several other games ("American Conquests" focused on the wars of colonization going up to the US Civil War) and were distinguished by their ability to form large columns of units - though individual units were incredibly weak. This allowed for battles of thousands of units. "Age of Empires" was of a smaller scale, with individual units being more important. The latest games in the "Age of Empires" series loosely covered the colonization of the Americas but the most famous ones were focused on the ancient and medieval periods. "Cossacks" also introduced a rudimentary logistics system in the form of ongoing unit consumption of resources. In "Age of Empires" you spend "food" or "gold" to make a single pikeman and said pikeman no longer needs to eat. In "Cossacks", if you have all your farms burn down you will notice your soldiers randomly dying of starvation. I also want to make note of the fact that Paradox games are NOT turn-based. While you can pause the game, they are all Real Time Strategy as decisions made are simultaneous with those made by other countries and no separate turns exist.

Spinna

I make this point especially because I listen to this podcast in the background as I play paradox games.

Kevin Walsh

The description of the computer game Nuclear War made it sound like it was heavily inspired by the boardgame Nuclear War. The boardgame was very random and not serious.

Spinna

Another series of games that may be of interest are "Crisis in the Kremlin", "Ostalgie", and "China:Mao's Legacy". All are simple games where you take control of a Communist country during a period of crisis and try to steer your way through (with hopefully a better outcome than real-life, though that is relative).

Smutticus

If you're looking for some good writing on video games I recommend critical-distance.com. They curate video game critiques and provide links to good writing on games.

Jimothy Realname

Cossacks was made by GSC game world, if I'm not mistaken. Creators of the Stalker games, loosely based on the movie Stalker

Jake Palmer

Surprised that Spec Ops: The Line didn't come up. Supposed to be about the horrors of war and a commentary on war video games afaik. Most but not all think it at least partially succeeds I think. Conflict: Vietnam is a Vietnam game I played when I was younger, set during the Tet offensive caught behind enemy lines. Too long ago for me to remember much other than it was squad-based, as in you took control of a squad of four. I remember really enjoying it, but I was young and didn't learn anything historical. In fact I didn't even remember it was set during the Tet offensive till I looked it up. Maybe if I was from the US I would have noticed more of it.

Maggie+Al

I assumed Cossacks though AoE 3 did get up to the musket era

Maggie+Al

Surprised 'This War of Mine' hasn't come up yet, extremely bleak polish survival game about trying to survive as a civilian in an urban civil war.

Maggie+Al

Also not a War Game (though theirs are failed revolution looming over the narrative) but check out Disco Elysium, it’s an RPG (and a combat light one at that) so it shouldn’t overtax any one reflexes, it kinda blew a away a lot of the press because they took the writing seriously.

Timothy DuPont

As a 15 year old at the time when Call of Duty created that massacre of Russian civilians in an airport, (I mention this because you guys posted an image of the mission on this episode), I can confidently say that all of my male friends clearly remember it and there were some interesting reactions from them in hindsight. Even today someone might say “Remember, No Russian.” Which is the dialogue before a CIA plant played by you and Russian terrorists kill hundreds of civilians... Regrettably I still enjoy some of their games despite the obvious U.S. propaganda that the writers/developers weave into the story line.

Timothy DuPont

Also chuckling at Mark’s description of Cpt. Price scowling at John in the COD tutorial lol

ramshackle

Also Mark, pretty sure the island based series that you were trying to remember the name of was Far Cry, not Fortnite. I get the feeling if you have a Steam account, this is your chance to fill it up with gifted games!

Timothy DuPont

They couldn’t even monetize the Vietnam war effectively lol

zaabittimov

As a fellow civ fanatic, I was also surprised to see it omitted. Paradox games are great, but require an enormous amount of time to learn the mechanics. It took me a good month of playing Hearts of Iron before I could do half the things that I wanted. I feel like Civ is more intuitive for people new to gaming

Tim Munro

Spec Ops: The Line is the most underrated game of the 2010s. There are a bunch of great videos on YouTube analyzing the game as a storytelling breakthrough. Well worth checking out

Lauren Cabral

Intresting that none of you guys mentioned Arma or Metal Gear Solid. Arma is made by a Czech developer and they originally made a infantry/combined arms simulator for the U.S. military around 2000-ish, but then made it into a video game where it simulates a lot of different aspects of modern warfare, from thermal sights, to fatigue from carrying too much stuff and running a lot so your aim is off, different calibers of bullets pass through different materials and bounce around, etc. It's really intresting. Metal Gear on the other hand is a Japanese stealth game known more for its uhh.... intresting storytelling to say the least.

Lauren Cabral

Fallout New Vegas is particularly intresting since the main antagonist (unless you decide to ally with him) is some guy who looks like Mike Pence who wants to recreate the Roman Empire and likes to read Hegel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyeTaXv6o4Y

Matthias Höck

Rebel Inc. on mobile. Trying to squash an insurgency but whenever you do nice hearts and minds stuff, corruption and inflation goes up.

L

absolutely screaming at the mention of no Vietnam games while looking at my playtime for Rising Storm 2 : Vietnam

L

Really strong supporter of John becoming a 4X strategy guy here. Very glad he’s already married - I pity poor Katherine. Seconding all the above comments about Civilisation - it’s an approachable first step in the genre of turn-based strategy, with an “easy to learn, hard to master” approach to its design. Stellaris is phenomenal, but can be overwhelming. Civilisation does a great job of introducing fundamental strategy concepts such as resource, policy and population management with a readily scalable difficulty. Most charmingly, the Civilization series thrives on anachronism. Try playing Gandhi as a Great Pyramid building genocidaire, or starting the Polish Space Race in 1782. Firstly, Nerds: set up a Steam account! Knowing your listenership, there’s plenty of people in the comments threads with additional copies of games they’re able to gift you. Semper games!

Raphaël Ambrosius Costeau

If John Dolan had been born 20 years later, he almost certainly would have been a Europa Universalis/Hearts of Iron player. I wouldn't recommend those to anyone new to gaming though, the interfaces have a very steep learning curve. Some more easy to get into historical wargames I'd recommend: Unity of Command or Ultimate General: Civil War. Also would recommend the digital version of the board game Twilight Struggle, 2 player game about the Cold War. Also highly recommend Disco Elysium which was mentioned above, not historical strategy, but strikes me as an extremely War Nerd type of game. For board games, check out the obscure but incredibly interesting historical games designed by Cole Wehrle: An Infamous Traffic about the Opium Wars, Pax Pamir about the imperial great game in Afghanistan, and John Company where you play aristocratic families competing within the British East India Company. Three Moves Ahead podcast is a great source of reviews/discussion on strategy games, mostly video games with the occasional board games/tabletop war games. Can't wait for the War Nerd Patreon to add a Discord channel pledge level!

MoldyTolge

The Metal Gear Solid series is notable, at least in my opinion, for being the only successful mainstream series that treats people from the Middle East or Africa like they’re human beings who are deserving of respect.

MoldyTolge

Holy shit. Is any of his stuff still floating around, this is worth documenting for posterity.

MoldyTolge

“Always scowling” yeah pretty much, not that complicated when I think about it.

Willy B

Very shocked the civilization series wasn’t mentioned on the show. One of the best alternative history turned based games in my view.

Mark Ames

Yes you're right, Far Cry. Not a bad game, but my wife and I were laughing at how many Trumpertarian cliches you had to adopt in order to get ahead.

Jimothy Realname

A game where your inner monologue urges you to snort speed is an extremely RWN-y game.

Telemechus

I love that Mark and John look exactly as I always imagined.

Rich

I know everybody else is going to say a comment like this, but you guys missed 1) Close Combat - great series of real-time strategy wargames, very realistic portrayal of World War era conventional war at the tactical level. The WW2 ones are fantastic, especially the Eastern Front titles. 2) There are a LOT of really good turn-based and even real-time Civil War games, too many to name 3) Turn based strategy games of the "4X" genre - Civilization and Alpha Centauri (the precursor to the more modern Paradox games mentioned in the podcast). 4) There are various small squad tactical real time strategy games, a few classics were mentioned (like SWAT and the Tom Clancy games), but there's a really interesting old-school one called "Syndicate" (sequel "Syndicate Wars") that might be the precursor to all the open-ended "sandbox" games like GTA that got mentioned. What's really interesting about Syndicate is that it was made by a British company (Bullfrog) and the design of the game seems to reflect the fighting style of the SAS. Even the manual is filled with jokes from an unabashedly British nationalist perspective. 5) DUNE!!! You guys forgot to talk about the GRANDMOTHER of real-time strategy games which was based on one of Dolan's favorite books! A great game in it's own right too, faithful to the source material (or at least the movie).

Rich

This. Civilization and Alpha Centauri, as well as all the Space games like Master of Orion. Sometimes referred to as the "4X" genre.

Henry

Episode suggestion: Nationalism is a common theme and Adam Zamoyski's Holy Madness https://www.amazon.com/Holy-Madness-Romantics-Revolutionaries-1776-1871/dp/0670892718/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2RBBBGBFW7N9G&keywords=holy+madness+adam+zamoyski&qid=1582056886&s=digital-text&sprefix=holy+madness+adam%2Cdigital-text%2C151&sr=1-1-catcorr is a pretty great book on the topic. Makes fun of a lot of the noble liberal rebels, and has one of the great "fuck the haters" prefaces I've ever read.

Garett Miller

Oh yeah I'm not sure if it's quite the right fit but this stuff is crazy. I think Mark and John would fine it really interesting.

grey

Really looking forward to this episode but just wanted to give you guys a heads up that europa universalis 4 is real time and not turn based but no big deal

Mike Stallard

Holy crap, Radio War Nerd and Floor 13?! My childhood and my adulthood are colliding in the most unexpected way. Stoked for this episode. For what it's worth, the author of Floor 13 has been working on a sequel: https://floor13deepstate.com/

Freddy K.

Something went wrong again :/ There was no notification email about EP 217. Please fix.

OvO Hoot

Games with American villains: Metal Gear Solid has a few. The grunts from the first game are an American splinter group. The second game's grunts are the typical ruskies but their leader is an ex-American President. And of course, the villain of the spin-off action game is a fascist American Senator who claims he will Make America Great Again, years before Trump made it his slogan.

Chris H

Alpha Centurai was a deeply evocative game in the Civilization vein, drawing loosely on Dune and Herbert's other big novel The Jesus Incident. Caesar II was mostly a city builder but also had a battle mode where you arranged your infantry and slingers, and a provincial level where you had to conquer barbarian settlements. I wish I were hospitalized so I could play all these other war games.

radiowarnerd

Huh. Did others not get notification? Did you search gmail spam or other folders? One other person told us the same.

Freddy K.

I've triple checked, did a general search and looked into the spam and trash folders. No avail.

Jason Thompson

More love to Civilization! I used to play it with my dad, or rather, he would drink and tell me what to do while I operated all the controls. He also loved “Seven Cities of Gold,” another not-quite-wargame from the ‘80s where you play a conquistador either trading peacefully with (ahistorical, I know) or rampaging among the peoples of the Americas. FWIW, this kind of unequal situation is harder to find in Civilization, as the AI makes efforts to ensure that none of the ‘civilizations’ has a big technological advantage relative to the others, unless you’re playing in Easy Mode.

Jason Thompson

Regarding “Contra,” which I loved as a kid.... it’s weird and possibly just completely shameless how they slapped the Reagan-approved “Contra” name on a video game which is basically just about Rambo in the jungle vs. ... SPACE ALIENS!! I wonder if the rationale came from the US or Japanese side of Konami, and whether it’s revealed in some interview somewhere. But evidently some leftist Japanese game developers got pissed off by Contra and decided to make a statement , since there’s also the (admittedly way less successful and I didn’t find out about it till last year) rumble-in-the-jungle game that came out around the same time, titled... GUEVARA!! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guerrilla_War_(video_game)

mt

I didnt get any notification neither. I check my spam too everytime. Started to worry that something had happened to you guys. Glad to knw that you are well !

Peter Queckenstedt

I think it would be cool to hear RWN's impressions of XCOM 2 by Firaxis. The player is operating an insurgent organization, albeit against an alien occupation of the planet.

Henry Finucane

Master of Orion 1 and 2 are on gog.com, if anyone wants to play emperor of the stars.

Casey Morris

Man... Contra is one of the all-time greats imo.

Casey Morris

Some other titles I'd recommend are Commando, MERCs, Bloody Wolf, and NAM-1975.

radiowarnerd

That's bad. Will notify Patreon about it. Curious how many had this problem.

teh_drewski

Shout out to the best squad based war game of all time, Jagged Alliance 2. The World in Conflict series does a nice job of mixing up cold war fantasies from an RTS perspective. Codename: Panzers is a nice little real time squad tactics game. Company of Heroes was missed I think? Best WW2 RTS you'll even find. There was an old FPS called Vietcong that did a nice job of representing the fuckwittery of the Vietnam War, although it probably doesn't hold up. There really are an endless supply of war games you could talk about. I guess we never get tired of playing toy soldiers...

9nidow

Gonna suggest "This War of Mine" again. Only war game I know of where the player takes the perspective of civilians during a conflict in a bombed out city.

LongHareDude

shout out for Spec Ops: The Line. One of the best game to really examine the role of PTSD and how it affects peoples minds.

Tristan Knowles

Great idea for an episode. 🙌🏻 +1 for Metal Gear Solid franchise. Thought Far Cry 5 would have been worth a mention for the white supremacist / radical nationalist antagonist.

Tadhg Timberton

As a non gamer I found this a terrible listen.

MHJ

You guys mentioned StarCraft several times this game in particular has one of my favorite stories of any video game. Once you get passed the sometimes uneven dialogue you are thrust into a multi-sided existential conflict. The purpose of it isn't always clear. You kill billions for seemingly no reason. It's insanely dark which is one of the reasons I love it.

Hexagon Truth

Good to see hexagons getting some recognition here.

Ezra de Leon

The biggest omission I noticed is the Romance of the Three Kingdoms series. It's immensely popular wherever that epic story has spread to (China, Japan, Korea, Chinese communities in Southeast Asia). You're one of three factions fighting for control after the collapse of the Han Dynasty and loosely following the narrative. I believe it started off as a turn based strategy game in the 80s and still comes out that way but I first encountered it as an action game on the PS2, Dynasty Warriors. It helped me learn a lot about the Three Kingdoms era of China (though one has to keep in mind that the epic was a fictionalized account written long after the fact, and not a history). I don't have a modern console so I don't know the current state of the series. The successive games do get repetitive since the story is always the same. I think they've used the same game mechanics for other historical periods (such as medieval Europe). Anyway, great episode.

Ezra de Leon

I think what's missing from the Floor 13 summary is that you're not actually playing as part of a government agency. Instead you're the head of a black bag operation for a political party (probably the Tories). Your job is to keep scandals from getting into the press, which is done through kidnappings, assassinations, torture, surveillance, etc. If the approval rating of the party is high enough you keep your job. If you attract too much attention (such as through repeated botched assassinations) you get chucked out of a 13th floor window. It's fun exploring all the different scenarios and responses you can take. I hope the remake keeps the spirit alive.

Charles Wild

Surely CMANO and the Combat Mission series deserve mention as highly-distilled War Nerd Wargames

Vladius

Unfortunately they didn't mention the Wargame series. One of the best realistic real-time strategy out there. Set during the Cold War with lots of alternative history scenarios.