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Radio War Nerd #272 — The New Zealand Wars (Patreon)

Published:
2021-03-21 21:29:56
Imported:
2026-06
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Content

Guest: Cliff Simons, historian 

Recorded: March 15, 2021

We talk to military historian Cliff Simons about the New Zealand Wars of the 19th century, pitting British settlers against the native Maori peoples.

Map of battles (*from Cliff's book Soldiers, Scouts & Spies):

Buy Cliff Simons' book Soldiers, Scouts & Spies: A military history of the New Zealand Wars, 1845-1864 

Interlude music by Brendon Anderegg. Check out his group Mountains here.

Buy John Dolan's book "The War Nerd Iliad" and his audiobook "Pleasant Hell".

Total time: 1:16:56

Direct link to this episode's mp3 here

Files

Comments

Molly McLennan

This should be revisited given the Treaty Principles bill just passed its first reading here in NZ. Prof Charlotte MacDonald or Dr Airini Loader at Vic Uni in Wellington are great

Steve Mathews

I don't visit this comment page enough! I, too, enjoy the War Nerd's refreshingly open-minded take on, well, a whole bunch of issues. Battles like Adwa and Little Big Horn really deserve to be viewed through a fairer prism. But trying to justify preexisting ritual cannibalism on the basis of British oppression is just comical. I guess my point is, it's really difficult be on a moral high horse and simultaneously discuss military matters, because you end up either whining about winners' immorality and glossing over that of the losers or pretending that noble savages weren't pathetically crushed by enormously superior colonial power. Justice just hasn't got anything to do with it. The War Nerd guys sometimes remind me of my ex-boss who would explode with praise every time his one black employee showed up to work on time.

kaicycle

Kia ora, looking forward to this one!

xnfec

John's story of his friends father tearfully confessing to being Irish reminded me of the Rab C. Nesbitt episode where Rab's long-lost relation, having experienced contact with Rab, has to tearfully confess to his very middle class wife that they are, in fact, Scum.

Peter Whitaker

Can you do an episode on the War of the Ring?

Aditya V

Excellent guest. Created an intuitive feel for the environment of the place

Jason Weiser

Great emu war episode please

David Andrews

Excellent episode but a the guest was a bit muffled.

Steve Mathews

I enjoyed the episode as usual, but Dolan's bending-over-backwards efforts to indulge savage ways is beginning to grate. I think your reaction would have been quite different if the British had suddenly started practicing cannibalism, and your condescending mumbling that it's OK when the Maori do it sounded silly. You're not working in a college now, no one will fire you for calling a cannibal a cannibal. And BTW there are excellent reasons for cannibalism to be taboo, kuru foremost among them, as many of your beloved people-consumers found out to their dismay.

ChessGuevara

Northern Ireland is more of a hotbed of oppression in 2021 than Xinjiang. Also John was very offended by what that Teen Vogue editor said when she was 17.

Dorst Savijeski

ty im my lexicon Navalny deserves a nickname im currently debating if it should be mach4 or mach5

Dorst Savijeski

But as the previous posts have said psychological warfare, and cannablisism are not unique

ChessGuevara

You misused cultural relativism and your post doesn’t really make sense other than as a reflexive attempt to disqualify and anathematize. But anyway, for anyone else who may be reading, I think the point is that lots of have (for almost 20 years now) liked the War Nerd. Now obviously it would be hard to get away with that character fully now, and Dolan basically retired that style years ago, but lately it’s been a shift to being the Woke nerd. The war nerd voice basically only comes out now when discussing Britain or Richard Seymour. Two of the softest targets in 2021 discourse.

John Johnson

Its ok when the Maori do it because invaders get no quarter. Anything the Maori do to the British is morally justified because the British should not have been there in the first place. John Dolan is not a detached observer, he is rooting for the Maori and that is why I like the show. Too much war history is devoid of side taking.

ChessGuevara

Maori cannibalism long predated the British lol. This is the exact type of tankie mentality (sorry sometimes the label fits) that just ends up being a eurocentrism with inverted values. The rest of your post is just a non-seq. Root for whomever you want, including cannibals. Means and changes nothing. But if you can’t have fun calling a spade a spade when it comes to cannibalism, then you’ve kind of lost the plot. Might as well write new yorker articles at that point.

James Hardwidge

British colonialism and Maori cannibalism can both be bad. Dolan doesn’t need to disclaim that he’s anti-cannibalism lol... but the Maori should have been left alone to determine that for themselves, just as westerners should grapple with their relationship with colonialism and other cultural evils. I generally try and avoid scolding people for their language but bro really? You’re gonna go with ‘savage’ when describing the practices of a colonized people? Not exactly offering much sensitivity while getting very upset at the british not getting a balanced take lmao. Gimme a break ✌️

Mark Ames

In case it wasn't clear, the correct position is: anti-British colonialism, not anti-Maori cannibalism.

ChessGuevara

For sure man, everyone would have been better off if New Zealand remained a cannibal isle. Especially for John who at no point has lived and collected paychecks there.

Ross Kiro-Ward

As I’m sure you’re aware ChessGuevara (because of your vast knowledge of Maori culture, of course) that the act of cannibalism was practiced as an almost religious ceremony in which the consumption of the enemy’s flesh was seen as consuming their Mana, and was never done on a whim or as any attempt at sustenance. In fact, it was extremely rare even at the height of these wars or any wars before. And if you have any sense left, and want to learn more about these terrible cannibals who haunt your dreams, look up the storming of gate Pa. in that battle the demonic Maori treated many wounded British regulars who became trapped and left behind after an unsuccessful attack on the Maori position. They did not boil them up and dance around a big black cauldron, as the wounded British were seen as brave warriors. Cannibalism was only practiced between rivals or amongst groups caught in a blood feud; in a way it was to acknowledge the Mana (essence, power etc.) of the defeated. I know you may see it as barbaric and savage as you put it, but anything you can put forth as such, be it done by the Maori or any other subjugated peoples, pales in comparison to the wholesale slaughter committed by the European powers. Surely you can see the logic in that, right? So, when John or whoever it may be, sympathises with these ‘savages’ you’re so scared of, remember who is by far the more bloodthirsty and empirically evil in the real world. Oh, and by the way I’m only half-Maori so don’t be to afraid, sweetie xxx

skipmur

The white man's guilt has replaced the white man's burden as the whiny upper middle class liberals favourite way to condescend people of foreign cultures. Still a great episode though, very informative as usual.

Ander Pierce

Came back to enjoy this comment section again haha And to accompany my latest Maori Civ 6 run

Andrew Tait

Your guest was pretty representative of official NZ discourse on the NZ wars (or as I prefer to call it the Land Wars - which is more accurate because that was what it was about). He touched on Ratana but not on the role of Maori in the labour movement from the 20s on (esp the freezing works) where they brought, along with the Irish, a militant edge - until the mass unemployment of the 80s (which is ironically when the waitangi tribunal period begins.

Andrew Tait

Cannibalism is the least interesting aspect, except for those stuck in culture wars