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Radio War Nerd #281 — Max Blumenthal on Late-Stage Zionism & Israel-Palestine Wars (Patreon)

Published:
2021-05-27 16:44:00
Imported:
2026-06
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Guest: Max Blumenthal, author, journalist, podcaster

Recorded: May 25, 2021

We talk to friend of RWN Max Blumenthal about the latest Israel-Gaza war in the context of Israel's years-long wars on Gaza & Palestinians, late-stage Zionism, and the manufactured postwar "anti-Semitism" hysteria sweeping America. Also, Ames discusses how the Anti-Defamation League contracted with South Africa's apartheid-era intelligence agency to spy on thousands of Americans—including your humble co-host.

Previous RWN episodes with Max Blumenthal: EP #54 (Syria War +2014 Gaza War), EP #86 (Manchester bombing), EP #179 (Management of Savagery), EP #198 (Syria war/propaganda).

Buy Max Blumenthal's books "The Management of Savagery", "The 51 Day War: Ruin and Resistance in Gaza", "Goliath: Life and Loathing in Greater Israel".  Read his investigative reporting at The Grayzone. Follow Max on Twitter. And check out Max & Ben Norton's podcast, Moderate Rebels.

Articles mentioned on this podcast:

"To distract from Gaza slaughter, Israel lobby manufactures antisemitism freakout," by Max Blumenthal, Grayzone.

"The Kings of Garbage, or, The ADL Spied on Me and All I Got Was This Lousy Index Card," by Mark Ames, (originally published 2013 in NSFWCorp)

Total time: 1:54:44

Direct link to this episode's mp3 here 

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Comments

MS

If you can, you should make this episode freely available. Thanks.

calvin kilby

i don't want to hurt their cashflow but i agree. so many eyes are on palestine right now; I was one of those people who had a vague notion of israel's mistreatment of palestinians but during the 2014 massacre I finally started paying attention and began educating myself.

The Irish Story

I'm going to dissent from you guys a bit here. And I enjoy your show and all. But, how is the Palestinians' situation anything but dire? The reality is; Gaza is under permanent siege, the West Bank is increasingly split up into a type of reservations for Palestinians, with Israeli settlers and military in control of the rest. The neighbouring Arab countries have all signed peace treaties with Israel now, bar Syria and Lebanon, I believe. Yeah ok, Israel might be losing the propaganda war (in America), but the physical control of space and power in the actual country has never been so one sided. Meanwhile their own representative organisations fight with each other and there hasn't been any kind of legitimate election in either the West Bank or Gaza since 2006, if, again, I'm not mistaken.

Dorst Savijeski

If you really want to you can find them free

ODA555

I do not think you are mistaken at all.

Jeffery Hepstein

Max made a great Point about Shia Iran supporting Sunni Palestinians Much is made about the sectarian divide in the islamic world… Do you guys know if there’s any other such alliances that challenge the western media’s presentation of this religions schism?

Jason Thompson

Seconded, please make this one free!

a clash of purple

In several modern wars we've seen that so long as people are willing to endure the cost of resistance, it doesn't matter much how badly you torture and kill them. Also, as far as Israel is concerned, the propaganda war is arguably the only war that matters. Israel can only exist the way it does due to the unconditional support of the United States. If the Americans start demanding that Israel change its behavior or else risk losing that support, they'll have to reconsider their current policies. The Palestinians only have to endure. They don't have to win any battles or control any particular territory or do anything except survive and resist. In that sense, this whole awful situation has been a victory for Palestine; they've proven that they can and will fight back if provoked, even if the balance of power is incredibly one-sided, they've demonstrated that there is solidarity between Palestinians in the occupied territories and Israeli Arabs, and public sentiment in America has shifted another couple of notches in their favor. As terrible as the Israeli assaults have been, as long as they can't break the Palestinians' will to fight and as long as they don't murder every single Palestinian, all they've accomplished is making Israel look bad.

Ander Pierce

Iran supports tons of groups, not exclusively Shia ones. Anyone else know other examples of Sunni/Shia strategic unity?

Ander Pierce

The military situation has been dire since the Nakba. There has been no force preventing Israeli mass murder of civilians since then, even Hezbollah was not able to stop the mass murder, only punish Israel for it

Ander Pierce

RWN can afford it, but Max & crew's Killing Gaza documentary is free already. Show your girlfriends, boyfriends, and families. Excellent doc that will make you all feel sick

David Andrews

Good episode. Max is always highly informative and does a nice job providing background and context.

The Irish Story

'Israel can only exist the way it does due to the unconditional support of the United States'. Well I suppose that's the crux. If that's true then, yes you could be right. But at the moment, the Palestinians situation is worse than it's ever been in terms of losing land and rights (West Bank) or just basic ability to live (Gaza). It's far worse than it was say 20 years ago in these respects and I don't think that Max Blumenthal's assertion that Hamas has now got an effective deterrent holds water. Do Hamas rocket attacks stop them taking houses in East Jerusalem or the West Bank? Not that I can see.

Connor Pierotti

The core of Al Qaeda is a good example. While Sunni, they took a pretty unified attitude when it comes to Shi'a. When I say core I mean the original OBS Al Qaeda. Its franchises have been much more sectarian.

PW

Great show! Learned a lot!

Aditya V

Excellent analysis of the opposition to Israel among young Democrats because of their experience with Trump... in which case why are the Democrats not doing more about Modi/BJP who are having a free run in USA... is it because of China?

Mark Ames

It's a really good question as to why there's so little momentum among young Dems/progressives about opposing Modi/BJP. The only time I recall this demographic caring was to vilify Tulsi Gabbard, whose support for Modi rightly induces queasiness. But somehow these same don't seem bothered by Biden making Modi part of the Quad, essentially an extension of US imperial policy to dominate Asia.

Aditya V

Modi had openly campaigned for Trump and feted Trump like no one else. So either Democrats are Jesus like figures who abhor revenge or they are bloodless individuals who do not know revenge

Mark Ames

Then "China" is the only plausible answer. Most of the progressives who identify with Dems follow whatever the State Department-generated NGO-media-complex amplifies, and they don't have much to say about Modi's fascism. What matters is taking on China, there's a creepy level of bipartisan unanimity on China.

xnfec

We had something similar here in the UK. 1. Day one - demonstrations and queezy hand-wringing plus equally queezy support for the Israeli position from the usual suspects. 2. Day two - reporting of anti-semitic shouting at passers by during the demonstrations. Some arrests. 3. Back to business as usual in the press. Tommy Robinson (UK proto Richard Spencer seen at pro Israel rally. Also, while looking at a YouTube, street-walking video from South America, I noticed that the security for a street market was provided by a company called Golani. Also recall the support for Israel given by the Neo-liberal/far-right governements in South America as opposed to the support shown to the Palestinians by the broadly left-wing governments.

Jim Vail

There was a problem with Max's analysis. He seems to have gotten into analyzing one administration vs. another, and not seeing the commonalities. There may have been some differences under Obama, but the relationship and US support were strong. And Israel has continued to play the same role for the US and Western imperialism overall. People mistake rhetoric for reality, and US "criticism" of Israel for actual differences. The latest war was somewhat different and support for the Palestinians is growing among people around the world. But the b.s. about Democratic politicians supporting Palestine really is b.s. and serves to keep many people believing in the system, whatever anyone's intentions. There was an interesting PBS documentary called "The Jihadist" last night, in which the al Nusra (al Qaeda) leader appeals for US support. Interestingly, US ambassador Jeffries thinks this is a good idea (against Russia and Iran). Good example of all sides being bad and the big error of choosing one over the other.

Lauren Giniger

It is China, and the new Cold War. The state, state actors and proxies will instrumentalize any and all fascist reaction to contain our Official Enemies TM. India is not Official Enemy, there is no propaganda campaign to vilify Modi and the BJP, thus there is no trail of left liberals and/or "progressives" who tail atrocity propaganda campaigns.

Lauren Giniger

POP radlibs who are pro-Palestine are so out of ideological confusion. Their support for Palestine is motivated by a sympathy for Palestine as a David v Goliath fight. If and when Palestinians gain Palestine as a state, they will revert to a juvenile 'all states bad' position. If pressed, POPs will stay queasy on the question of one state, of Palestine as state. When POPs extend solidarity based on politics of the underdog, they land on the uncomfortable position of extending solidarity to HTS in Idlib, for example, or TIP proxies of the WUC, as they perceive Al Qaeda in Syria (and in China) to be underdogs against 'baddies'. Edit: you can also call POPs POOPs, or, Progressives Only On Palestine.

Playdoh

I'm just starting this episode, but Max and the rest of the Grayzone staff and their friends/contributors have done a TON of coverage over the recent war. There is probably a lot of crossover between this and the reports and discussion posted by The Grayzone and Moderate Rebels (with more focus on some specifics here like the Kornet missiles, etc. presumably?)

MS

Completely agree. The Palestinians are completely fucked. Just consider the actual situation. Israel’s solutions to the Palestinian Question: 1. Mass expulsions & continued ethnic cleansing (enacted, with US support) 2. Slow killings = blockade & starvation (enacted, with US support) 3. Mass killing = extermination & genocide (unlikely) 1 & 2 are in force and fully supported by US / Western “rules-based order”. The Palestinians have zero effective military power. Some people compare their plight to the Algerians ejecting the French, omitting the fact that Algeria had massive military support from its neighbours and the area of operations was vast - compared to Gaza etc.