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DBS Reaction Ep. 92 (Patreon)

Published:
2023-10-26 15:49:31
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2026-06
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Comment below with your honest thoughts on Super Saiyan Caulifla and bringing Frieza back again 

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Comments

CountChopulla

Don’t like the “tingle”. Ruins the lore of SSJ

Devon

Honestly I wish we had kefla instead of caulifa and kale

Asian Sticker

Never liked u6 saiyans. Even less now with the whole “tingle sensation in the back”

Edwyn Amador

Most underserving super saiyan for the dumb tingle bullshit they did

Alex Noel

don’t like what they did with super saiyan at all “tingle in your back” what happened to raw aggression? the response to a power in need not a desire? the pain of loss and this right here is another reason why U7 saiyans are more badass

Darren Metts

Honestly tingle in the back makes sense

CYBRLFT

I’m also not a huge fan of them shifting to a chakra lore for super saiyan in universe 6. That’s essentially what they went with the sort of Kundalini approach talking about the tingly back. It’s unique but meh, I like Vegeta’s approach for getting it out of Cabba. I’m not upset that Califla is a natural at it though. She’s a gifted protégé like Goten and Trunks in that regard. LOVE them bringing back Frieza.

James Legends

I don’t really mind how caulifla gained Super Saiyan tbh. Although I do think it could’ve been done in a better way.

Kris_Loso
>>120700727

Not really. I like the different way it was introduced. These Uni6 saiyans evolved differently from the Uni7 saiyans, so it makes sense that their transformation is different also. Uni6 saiyans didn't have to go through what the Uni7 saiyans went through, so the fact that theirs was achieved through rage/anger fits who they are.

Eric Evans

Never cared for the "tingle in the back" reason. It made no sense to me. You've had Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, & Trunks all went through intense stuff to reach that level. Even Vegeta helped Cabba become a super saiyan by pissing him off. The whole idea with the tingle in the back is wack. Lol! I don't mind that they brought Frieza back for the TOP. I would've loved to have seen Buu, but Buu is practically a cheat code. Him missing out made it far more challenging & interesting for U7.

Devin Brown

With the Universe 6 saiyans, I’ll chalk it up to genetics since they’re technically a more evolved version of the universe saiyans so it’s not too unbelievable that they’d get it quicker than Goku and Vegeta

Joshua Miller

Buu definitely has sleep apnea lol

Samuel Romero

I’m not too picky, goten and trunks definitely get their transformations through rage as our original sayians did, plus the U6 sayians aren’t brute race as already mentioned. Completely different approach where I separate it from U7 transformations. It is it’s own thing so it technically wouldn’t ruin a sayian transformation at all for me

Rainz

I don't understand all the hate the universe 6 saiyans get they evolved differently from universe 7 so it makes sense they would achieve ssj differently. No one complained this hard when Goten and Trunks turned it into as Vegeta said a child's play thing.

Darius Bigbee

I see the tingling in the back a scientific explanation for something that is a legend/ myth plus the u6 saiyans do seem more intelligent just like how there are things explained using science for something we used to think was magic, gods, etc

Samuel Romero
>>120701461

Plus super sayian is completely new to them, I don’t really know how else they could even describe it, tingly I’m sure sounds silly but I do think goku mentions that’s what it does feel like anyways ? I could be wrong on that

Gil Vazquez

"The Power is a need, not a desire" - Goku Universe 6 - MAKE YOUR BACK TINGLE!

Devin Brown

As for Majin Buu being asleep, him being in the tournament would be a huge cheat code because of his magical abilities so writing him out so the team can struggle a little more is actually good writing

Damian W
>>120701508

I think the same. What's the point of introducing weak sayans at this point in the plot when everyone is already so powerful. Moreover, the option of having a high base level but having a different, good nature then our old sayans from planet Vegeta in U7 is okay. There was no opportunity for someone to trigger the effect of anger in them like in Goku, so why not achieve it in a different way. Goten and Trunks also achieved this, and they are much weaker than Caulifla, who has a very high base level, as you can see, and is the counterpart of Goku with great talent and trash talk like Vegeta's

Troinell

I'm not a fan of the back tingles, but it does make sense why U6 saiyans were able to turn SSJ. A lot of dragon ball fans don't know about S Cells and if they did, this would make more sense. The more S cells a saiyan has, the easier they have at becoming SSJ. Saiyans with a more gentle heart tend to have more S Cells than a saiyan with an evil heart, and if you remember, U6 saiyans are nothing like U7 saiyans, so they never became evil. If you think about it, it's why everybody else had a easier time becoming SSJ while vegeta had to struggle a bit. Half saiyans are also different because saiyans tend to get stronger off emotion too like we've all noticed. With half saiyans having half human in them, the human side tends to get more emotional thus generating a bigger power boost. Besides broly, half saiyans are broken too if they trained, but they don't have full saiyan blood so they don't always have the desire, but as you can tell when they get in a battle, they're all in it

BarisTeeAnime
>>120700940

For Frieza - I do think that it turns out to be pretty wholesome at the end. Maybe they shouldn't have finished him off in Res. of F and kept him around for this moment! I feel like all of it could have been connected in a "better" way :))

BarisTeeAnime
>>120701863

Even if Buu was the MVP for our team, Jiren could have knocked his ass out in 1 second. It would have been the perfect way to show case Jiren's power and get rid of Buu :)

CYBRLFT
>>120700940

I do agree with that for sure. Frieza is super intelligent man. A strategic retreat would have been better than killing him again. I know you’ve said it before that dying carries no weight because you can just come back lol.

Josh Vegitofan17

See guys, she said it before Baris even said anything. So y'all can't use the same ol' Baris influences her opinion on Super excuses for this one... even Madison knew becoming ssj just like that was BS....

Troinell
>>120701863

Oh definitely! Buu could either absorb everybody or turn them into chocolate or whatever he wants lol

Devin Brown
>>120701863

This is also true, one of the things I wished the anime did more was showcase Buu more

Joe Leszczak
>>120701863

I loved bringing frieza back cause through the tournament and towards the end I really thought he was going to win and be the one to make a wish with the super dragon balls and the next arc was going to be about undoing that wish.

Doctor Rivers

I didn't even know about S Cells, and I forgot to even consider the difference in 6th vs 7th universe saiyans and their personalities. At first I had the same reaction to the tingly thing, but I mean, Dragon Ball in general has plenty of major a$$ pulls, even the power of that one character from the 2018 DBS Movie.

Jorge

Damn hoped Madison could’ve been pissed that frieza is coming back 😂😂

Omar A

They could have put buu in the time chamber. That way 2 months nap is very short on earth

David Cabrera

The whole S Cells thing is kind of silly tbh. I would rather have Caulifla being talented. Also, I know a lot of people like Cell, but Frieza is my favorite villain so I'm glad he was back as an "ally" in the Tournament.

Andrew Walker

Buu’s healing power would be too OP for this tournament in my opinion and it’s a shame they’re so disappointed by Freiza’s return. I thought it was a great twist to get someone evil onto their team who they can never really trust. Makes for good possibilities of story.

Bxking1124

FUCK BOTH THEM BITCHES All she had to do was think bout last time she got backshots and she a ssj. THEY TRASH FUCK EM

Josh Vegitofan17

I would've told 18 that it seems like 10 million zeni is worth more than her daughters life.

J.R.Smith

Here's my 2 cents. I see a lot of people saying that they don't mind it cause the UA6 saiyans and U7 saiyans are different so it makes sense that they achieve super saiyan in a different way. The problem I have with that is Cabba is a U6 saiyan and he achieved super saiyan similar to the U7 saiyans. So the whole back tingle thing is just completely left field at the end of the day. It makes no sense just based off of the show's own logic. Cabba is from universe 6 and achieves it with anger/rage. caulifa is from universe 6 and achieves it via back tingle?

noah

universe 6 sayains have more s cells than the sayains in the 7th universe in short terms s cells are based on how human like you are that’s why half breeds transform easier than full blooded sayains from the 7th because they were all cavemen who only care about conquering

Damian W

Of course, at first I also thought that Freeza was a bad idea, but Buu is too OP for such a tournament with his skills, and Freeza, as it turns out, will have a lot of cool moments. Everything before us!

Franco

Dang no love for my boy Frieza he bad azz tho “HoHooh” lmfaooo

Damian W
>>120701792

There is no reason to introduce weak sayan at this point in the plot. It must be assumed that they have a high base level, but in their reality there was no such factor as Goku's enormous anger after Krillin's death. It's a different universe, so it's a different development. If they can have a high base level, they can also achieve SSJ. Of course, it could be done better, but the new Sayan arc itself is okay and I had a lot of fun watching the mini-series at the tournament with Caulifla. After all, she is Goku's talented counterpart in U6 and has trash talk like Vegeta.

Ubergamer

As much as i love the Dragon Ball universe i always hated this moment in DBS that made a Super Saiyan, the legendery warrior transformation a complete joke I mean they did something like that later in DBZ with Goten and Trunks but in here they took it to the next level of dissrespect I'm not sure why Akira did that but it ruined the "Super Saiyan" glory for me

Josh Vegitofan17
>>120703684

Exactly dude, Vegeta had to piss him off in order to bring it out of him exactly like U7 saiyans. So that whole U6 saiyans being different is just headcanon not backed by canon evidence.

Corey Quick

I don’t like the tingling thing but I do like Frieza thing, it was a curve ball for me and imo it turned out good. I think they just left out buu because he’s to op with his abilities

CountChopulla

All the time and no one other than Vegeta goes to the time chamber?? Why didn’t piccolo take Gohan there for a day or two?!

noah

also if you notice the moment that vegeta started acting more human like and civilized and chill his power started to grow immensely that’s why goku was always progressing faster because of the s cells

Przemek Widera

I was F... so mad wenn they do this tingle shit with Caulifla,those big Legend about Super Sayian and destroy it with some trick.

Dennis Belder

Bringing Frieza back is not bad writing. It is because they pleased the fans. Since Frieza is the most popular Antagonist. Though personally I'd hoped Cell got a comeback.

RJ

The drawing out the hidden potential is not that big of a deal. They still would’ve made Jiren scaled stronger than everyone else. It would’ve been pointless. It’s not like they all would’ve gotten their power drawn out then the tournament ends in one episode

Jaehwa Jeong
>>120700727

even though that's true, I think that's lazy writing imo. SSJ transformations are to be earned!

Kris_Loso
>>120700727

Why? Goten or Trunks didn't earn theirs! Nobody complained about their transformation (not saying that you're complaining). They may have achieved theirs through a tingling sensation as well 😂

Eric M Brown

Caulifla is of the 6th universe.......I guess Universe 6 Saiyans have a better aptitude which is horrible

Byakuran
>>120704312

they are diffrent than universe 7 sayains its the same tranformation but a diffrent requirement to get there. Universe 7 sayains blood line is also mixed at 6 is pure sayains

king will

I hope you read this comment but my opinion on the back tingle i feel it only works like that for universe 6 is because technically they are not the same type of saiyns they are just similar enough that they both have super saiyn similar to frost and frieza both are the same kind of alien but have minor differences like frost having poison

Byakuran

I dont think they can use the chamber. Some of them have no time in it left

Nickolas Meyer

The back tingle thing was always stupid, but I think it was just a (really poor) way of them to describe the sensation of turning Super Saiyan, rather than it just being some generic tingle. They could have done a way, way, WAY better job of doing it. And honestly bringing Frieza back for the tournament was actually pretty cool. Realistically, there weren't many other real options, aside from maybe Cell, and who would have known the in-universe logistics of that. They actually did a good job at first of alluding to him having his own sinister agenda, but like a lot of things with DBS, it really fell flat. Though, there were a lot of interesting dynamics that came out of it, like Frieza and Frost's interactions, Frieza and Gohan's littley ploty, and Frieza, 17, and Goku working together late in the tournament.

Kris_Loso
>>120700839

That doesn't have to be the only way is achieved. It's the only way that was shown to us at the time, but that doesn't mean that was the only way.

RJ

Bringing back Frieza emphasizes their power of trusting one another. Which was their big theme. Frieza trusts Goku will bring him back to life and they work together to beat Jiren which was crazy to see. I do agree though, all the ideas you mentioned with buu would’ve been really cool/good fan service. Also bringing back frieza was for future plans of yet again bringing him back. Him trying to be above the gods

CountChopulla
>>120700727

Theirs was completely different and explained. Basically conceived by a SSJ dad and grew up around it. For her to just see it and go oh my back tingle boom, SSJ is bad writing. Even Gohan the prodigy took forever to go SSJ and couldn’t sustain it without incredible training and mentorship from Goku

Eric M Brown

I have literally no respect for Number 18 at this point....you're going to refuse to join and not fight for your daughter because you're not getting paid or because someone kept something from you.....she's worse than her alternate timeline counterpart in some ways. Krillin isn't much better

Legend1689

We all felt the same about the insta-super saiyan crap, terrible fan service to be sure... While S cells are canonical, and the info other commenters have given is true, that's another example of Bullshit retcon/terrible writing. As far as Frieza goes, I have to disagree. I think that was a solid move

QuirklessEsty

Never was a big fan of the "tingle sensation" thing. I think they could've struggled channeling that anger and then have it awaken during the TOP. As for Frieza, in hindsight I loved the move because Frieza truly did his best to save his universe. Without knowing anything, yeah it does seem like a cheap way to bring back to most well known DB villain.

Victor

I can understand where everyone is coming from on Frieza being overkill but is it really that different from constantly bringing back Goku from the dead or the other Z fighters when they die, or died😂. Or cell when he was “supposed to die”😂. I love friezas character and love that he’s more talkative and smirky in DBS not to mention the legendary voice actor Christopher ayes may he Rest in peace 🫡

Dante

You didnt show the ending clip with frieza in the tree lol

Dante

U6 Broly! Next

Childishsloth416

I first hated caulifla becoming a super saiyan so easily, but later on I accepted that bc universe 6 saiyans are more evolved than universe 7 saiyans. So while the explanation isn’t the best it would make more sense if they could become a super saiyan more easily. And I’m fine with frieza in the tournament😁

Byakuran
>>120703524

lol mad bro? They are pure sayains. Universe 7's blood line is considered mixed during the war of their homeworld into tuffle.

RxS Blue

I wasn't too bothered by the super saiyans of U6. Clearly the method was invented on the fly by the writers because there was no time to explore it any other way but over all I don't believe it takes away from the feat itself. The lore behind super saiyans exists solely in the 7th universe so of course the U6 saiyans wouldn't hold it in the same regard as Goku or Vegeta. To them it's merely a transformation they were unaware they were capable of. As I said before clearly it's a power up they were given by writers to make them a formidable team but overall I don't believe it ruins the essence of what makes a super saiyan.

Byron

I think caulifla is just a natural like we’ve seen with trunks and gotten I got that vibe from her the first time age was in screen she had that vibe so when she when she transformed it kinda was expected, the back tingle makes sense but is goofy remember it did come from overseas so that’s comedic justice in a way and being serious. This the one people disagree with but after reading the manga I loved them bringing frieza back right now…………. And I’m not going to spoil anything for y’all but the writing will make sense down the line

RxS Blue
>>120706292

The saiyans of U6 were able to achieve it because they knew the workings of what causes the transformation since it was taught to them by someone who had a keen understanding of the ability.

Ayman Aksikas

SSJ was reduced to nothin way before super to be fair

heart-beaten_44

Is a bad writing yeah include ssj1 universe 6.. although frieza is way more "wild card" than buu and for sure he upgrades the Tournament of power.. The choice of Frieza participate was the right but the previously thing with fit buu was pointless.. i guess that time they didn't know what to do yet and changed the plot last "minute*

Revolution
>>120701792

Did you forget Goten and Trunks? That rule does not apply here. Seems nobody understands how S Cells work.

Tommy T

I hate the tingly thing. I would've been perfectly fine with them being introduced already being a super Saiyan and then Kale going berserk as a surprise. Frieza was a good idea

Chris Jordan

You know in terms of the back tingle thing. Akira Toriyama mentioned in an interview that you need to have inherited enough S-cells to become a super saiyan along with a gentler spirit. Once they reach a certain extent overtime you can transform into one. The reason Goku became a super saiyan much earlier than Vegeta is likely due to his gentle spirit and nature, meaning more S-cells. Which also explains how the saiyans in planet Vegeta were basically never able to transform, being mostly evil and all. We can probably assume that since the saiyans are inherently good in universe 6, Cabba and Caulifla probably inherited enough S-cells to be able to transform so easily. Either that or it's just lazy writing.

Troinell

Another thing to add, the U6 saiyans aren't weak. In both manga and anime vegeta admitted to cabba that at his base level, they're about even and that's a vegeta with ssb up his sleeve. You take that and add SSJ to it and it's crazy! Not sure if they established it yet, so sorry if i spoil it but caulifla is stronger than cabba

Ichigoat

I’m fine with the Back Thing, as we know Goten and Trunks got it easy. Tingly back is just the mechanical more efficient way to achieve it, people say “you have to feel loss and anger” you don’t see Goku or anyone else constantly going through trauma every time he does it, once you have it you turn ssj anytime rage is a trigger not a need to transform that’s what people don’t seem to understand. On top of that U6 saiyans are different in biology and have more S-Cells. Goten and Trunks is even worse as they’re younger and don’t have the power level Caulifla already had. Letting go of his grudges and fighting together to save their universe is way better than Buu being there adding no narrative value to it

Caleb81c

Apparently U6 saiyans have more of what is called “s cells” which make them more powerful and easier to transform. They have more than U7 because s cells appear more in more good hearted saiyans and since U6 saiyans are good saiyans it’s natural for them to evolve quicker.

Ichigoat
>>120700727

SSJ was never hard to achieve, the tingly back is the mechanical way to get it you don’t see Goku them constantly going through rage and anger to get it. Rage is a trigger it’s not a need to get that form. As we see future trunks in the manga got it just training with Gohan. Vegeta got it by throwing a tantrum and getting mad he was behind Goku, Gohan got it just imagining Freiza, etc On top of U6 saiyans being different biologically and having more S-Cells

Brandon

I know it’s annoying to see after all that the Z Fighters went through to get to SSJ- but I chalk it up to her being a prodigy + Universe 6 saiyans having different biology. Not the best writing, but I’m not necessarily mad about it 🤷🏾‍♂️

James Ramsey

U6 super saiyan transformation was a massive ass-pull. But we also gotta understand at this point in super everything is going to be an ass-pull, the powerscaling is completely fucked, but the animations and fights are going to be amazing. We just gotta enjoy it as the fan service it is!

Caleb81c
>>120706774

Also had to even the playing field. Buu would be OP. Infinite healing to the team and he could probably leave a part of his body in the ring in case the main vessel was knocked out.

Izzy P

I was hype as hell when Frieza was the last choice. And in the coming episodes I believe Madison will see just how great Frieza is in this tournament.

Troinell
>>120706774

It's not bad writing to add ssj U6 saiyans. In both manga and anime, vegeta admitted that in base him and cabba are practically even. Add ssj to a power that strong is crazy

Wallet

Remember when Trunks and Goten turned super saiyan? Remember....Super saiyan is just a bargaining sale.

Danny Rangel

I mean goten and trunks got SS as little kids out of nowhere too and the only thing we knew about their power was that they were saiyans and the sons of Goku and vegeta. At least we already know Caulifla and Kale are hidden gems waiting to shine as Renso did say caulifla had more potential than him. Just my opinion tho. Didn’t bother me at all since the “asspulls” have been happening since Z, but nostalgia keeps people from calling it out

Troinell
>>120705127

It wasn't just those 2, there were others that had terrible logic about entering. Like if y'all don't go, everybody is going to be wipe out, do you not understand that lol

Raginn

I think most people underlook that Caulifla is Goku's counterpart from u6 with their battle obsession, kale is like broly, cabba is like vegeta, although they don't get enough time too shine so it feels rushed with their transformations, although these are probably the top 3 saiyans in their verse

Ichigoat
>>120701792

That’s a Dub Error SSJ doesn’t come from a need, it’s just rage in the original. Toriyama stated that it Goku was able to transform to quench his thirst to be the strongest warrior in the universe.

lordjaggi

If Frieza was picked, cell should have had a shot too... Imagine Madison a new viewer calling out the bad writing already :(

Eric M Brown
>>120705127

Android 17 too I know. Although Piccolo, Vegeta and Tenshinhan and even Bulma were mad at Goku despite the fact that Gohan was the one with the idea. Like seriously some of the smartest people on the team and they're behaving like they have brain damage. Why didn't they try and say "Hey idiots your gonna be wiped out" honestly Gohan was stupid for not telling them in the first place. Vegeta and Piccolo should have defended him. Even though Piccolo Tien and Vegeta didn't withdraw only Krillin and 18. The Z crew is full of retards. They don't have the excuse of being dropped on their head from a cliff like Goku does.

Wallet
>>120704312

Dude, Trunks and Goten turned super saiyan just.....because!

Wallet
>>120700839

Yeah so...trunks and goten turning super saiyan was all about raw agression? Desire of pain and loss, when did that happen again?

Danny Rangel
>>120704044

It’s a legendary transformation in universe 7, not universe 6. Cabba didn’t even know what it was when he first saw it. Goten training with chi chi and turning super saiyan is a way bigger ass pull than anything else we’ve seen imo

Ichigoat
>>120703684

Rage is a trigger but is NOT needed to transform we know future Trunks in the manga, Goten and Trunks all didn’t have to rage out

Ubergamer
>>120704044

Yeah, i mentioned Goten in my comment but even if it's a different universe, in the end of the day it's still Dragon Ball mainstream series and not a spin-off In a case of a spin-off, i wouldn't have been bothered by that

Wallet
>>120700727

No it was lazy writing then. Cant convince me otherwise then on trunks and goten just "getting it" just 'because around" Lazy writing blah blah blah.

Eric Evans
>>120701188

Yes, but it's been the main way to do it. Anger was the catalyst for the transformation. With the exception of young Trunks & Goten, every Saiyan got their Super Saiyan transformation through anger & rage. Even Cabba, Broly & Kale. The tingling in the back just doesn't cut it for me, IMO.

爱

can we get a triple upload for tomorrow lmao i don't want to wait till next week for that one Frieza episode. iykyk

Will Edward

The reason why Frieza is used so much is do to the fact that Frieza is Akita Toriyama’s favorite character.

Eric

Straight up, if you weren't upset with Goten and Trunks, you can't be upset with Caulifla. As far as Frieza is concerned, I'm also not a fan but atleast we've seen Frieza already this series and he's strong. 17 seems way more out of the blue than Frieza personally. Cell would even be worse because it would be like 17 but they'd also have to revive him first. They really should have gone with Goten and Trunks, especially knowing how it plays out.

Bamboozler09

I used to feel the same about how quickly they got it compared to the challenges we watched our main characters face to achieve it. Yet, I recently realised that we know nothing of these new characters or what they have faced in their lives. All we know is that a man Cabba spoke to praises her for her abilities and that she leads some sort of gang or something? Either way, I think it wasn't translated by the creators why they deserve this power. It's a bold move to spit in the face of our heroes otherwise and I don't want to believe that is the more likely scenario. Why else have scenes of Universe 11, to show us that these characters that are such a threat to our heroes are morally righteous and totally backable.

NavonWise

Hmm, I never saw it as overkill. They brought him back once on ROF, and on the TOP, that’s it. How is that overkill? I get it if you watch the movies and fillers, stuff like that.

Richard Dean

I believe universe 6 saiyans can do it easier because they are more emotional like our earths half sayians. the more emotion the more powerful of a saiyan you are, and also, everyone agreed and didn't want frieza coming back, that was until we seen him in action, then everyone wanted to see more

Robbie Medica

Base Caulifla and Kale are many many MANY times stronger than base Goten and Trunks when they went SSJ, so no it's not worse. The fact that they weren't already super saiyans with how strong they were is the bigger issue, but I guess the whole "monkey see monkey do" applies strongly here.

B-Rad

I don't mind that Frieza came back, but I didn't necessarily like the way they handled it. When he came back as mecha and in ROF it really took away that fear we had for the character in the namek arc. I'm just hoping they redeem his character in the next DBS manga arc by going around killing gods of destruction or something.

Jesse

I don't mind the U6 saiyans getting super saiyan, I just don't think they should ever compare strength-wise to goku/vegeta, especially given their age. They are also different from U7 in that they have no tails/evolved differently, so they aren't exactly the same... Frieza coming back is just pure marketing, one of the most notorious villains in the franchise, and he adds a great dynamic to the story with his personality. I think he and 17 were some of my favorite characters in the tournament from either interactions/conversations with other characters. Also a fun thing I noticed - this time when Vegeta blew up the time chamber he came out calm and looking fine, all the previous times he was sweating and exhausted...

Robbie Medica

Also, as I'm sure Madi will agree after seeing the tournament, the character moments Frieza can have by being part of it far surpass any other past characters (except maybe Cell, but that would work better if Gohan was the tournament lead protagonist rather than Goku). Ideas like Buu absorbing Gohan are the reason fanfictions are so bad, they sound cool on paper but are so out of character.

Robbie Medica
>>120709943

Except when you actually see the tournament you recognise why bringing Frieza back was good writing. Cell just does not have the same history with the majority of the Z characters, Cell would only work well if Gohan was going to be the main protagonist of the tournament, but it's Goku. Even then Frieza is better for interactions with Frost, the U6 saiyans etc. Say what you want about Toriyama but he's amazing at writing characters, and the characters and character interactions of Super are the main reason it's better than GT.

Robbie Medica
>>120704044

The fact that the 4 minute mile is now a joke doesn't take away the amazing accomplishment of the first person to do it. "Monkey see monkey do" should apply even more to saiyans than to humans.

Robbie Medica
>>120703433

I think people can be really short-sighted as to what is good writing and what isn't. Something that opens up a myriad of possibilities and potential character interactions and plots is not bad writing. Jiren's backstory was bad writing, bringing Frieza back wasn't.

Robbie Medica
>>120701792

It is a need though, their universe is literally at stake, not sure what could be a higher need than that.

Cullen

Madison is right about Frieza but damn he and 17 have the best roasts when we get to the tournament 😂

Robbie Medica
>>120701188

But doesn't the fact that literally everyone else including Kale and Cabba needed anger tell you that Caulifla is a special case?

Lauvan Jean

I really wish they could've replaced Tien with Future Trunks. Future Trunks is more resourceful and much more powerful especially after the fight with Zamasu. And i really wish they brought back cell to replace frieza in the top because of the fact that his cells help him constantly adapt to whatever power he’s fighting, and the fact that he contains Saiyan cells, which allow him to become more powerful the longer he fights. He also has Frieza’s cells, so he could probably get the Golden form as well.

Peter Fowler

Could of binned Tien and had Frieza and Buu I have no problem having Frieza, just have beerus threaten him

Peter Fowler

If someone said to you 20 years ago that Frieza, android 17 and Goku team up you would laugh your head off 😂

Mohamed Hassan

The 6th universe Saiyans in base form are stronger than the saiyans from the 7th in base at least until super starts. After vegeta and goku get their god forms their base power went up dramatically and even then when vegeta and caba fought for the first time they were evenly matched at base and then evenly matched at super Saiyan. So although it feels cheap to just give super sayian out the u6 saiyans appear to have way more potential for growth than u7 saiyans

Marcus Carter

I cant be mad that super saiyan was reached so easily due to how they explained Z cells to work. Which explained why Goten and Trunks reached it so easily. I also want to add that it's a testiment to Goku and Vegeta willpower considering they being full saiyans with the saiyans violent disposition, they're handicaped with the super saiyan powers. Gohan is stronger than them both natural because he's half saiyan.

Mikasa_Axmn

"How did he get fat again", the real question is: How tf did he get fit in the first place ! The expo had just ended, and got fit for not even training 3 hours !

JustSomeDude

It’s never really explained in DBS but the U6 sayians being able to transforms make since for me since both Cabba & Kalifa are both significantly strong than goten, trunks, and even goku where when they first transformed. They likely had the potential to be super sayians for a long time but never new about the technique but the “tingly feeling” is just silly 😅

ArchetypePreston

As much as Madison might be right about Frieza, this tournament wouldn't be the same without him. His killer lines and dark humor made it that much more interesting. Also I think the reason they decided to keep Buu out of the tournament is because he is a magical creature with countless abilities and tricks so he would probably be too OP. Also after Madisons comment about how they keep goin back to Frieza, Oh boy i can't wait for the day when she finds out about Black Frieza coming back again and smacking Goku and Vegeta like they're nothing.

Solebat

Ah, Madison had the same opinion everyone else originally had. Let's see if her opinion change after Frieza shows what he got.

Douglas Murray

Regarding of U6' Saiyan transformation, I know I won't get a heart from Baris and you guys, but I appreciate their approach and method to achieve Super Saiyan for what it is: finding the tingling sensation. People keep saying that it's unearned and undeserving, but why don't we see it in a different perspective. U6 is not U7. If the Saiyans in U6 use the same method for transformation, then it wouldn't be U6, it would be U7. We seem to not recognize U6 is supposed to be an alternate reality of U7, which means things go differently there. U6's Earth became an uninhabited land due to human's war. Their "Frieza" is also different. Why do we keep demanding their Saiyans must be the same as our Saiyans, then it wouldn't be an alternate reality anymore. In an alternate universe, the Earth can have 2 suns, cats literally rule the world, the U.S have their first female president, and so on.

T.

Bruh, baris you're a genius for that time chamber idea, because with that logic elder kai could've spent a week in there just awakening the entire teams potential lol.

CYBRLFT

It’s hilarious that we never see it in the anime but that robotic destroyer is actually piloted by the actual destroyer inside him and speaks normally 🤣

Danny Rangel
>>120728206

We do see it in the anime, right before you know… he comes out the very last second

Naruto Uzumaki

In my opinion i still think goten and trunks have the worse build up to SS because they literally just did it. Don't know if it was a filler only scene but Goten was a bit more of an exception because he was angry in a moment at chi chi which is where the concept applies. Kid trunks however literally just turn SS with no explanation or build up. At least with Caulifla and Kale they have actual explanations although they are poor

Nick J

And thus.. we finally made to the tingle in my back bull shit 🤣

Wallet
>>120726360

Pretty sure this was only applied to Gohan since from the start it was always known that Gohan had some kind of hidden potential as a child always just being stronger then Goku. it's more or less some kind of weird power that Gohan was able to have from child birth.

Wallet

I wish they just had Buu absorb Ultimate Gohan and Piccolo just to bring him back but in more moral way, Or just piccolo since he is a genius at fighting and strategic mindset and Buu just being an overpowered bullshit almost not really ever able to die to almost anything. Then bring Frieza in. Maybe some time in tournament Buu absorbs Gohan to better the chances.

Antoine Jones

yeah lets all COMPLETELY forget what a joke it was for EVERYONE after Goku to become Super Sayain... even VEGETA himself commented in Z "Oh, so the legendary Super Saiyan has just been reduced to a mere parlor trick now?"... that just proof that theyve just been "giving it away" for a long time now... its nothing special anymore.... ya'll are out here basically complaining about someone getting a Playstation 1 with little to no effort, when we're already up to Playstation 5.... Now if they were going Blue in the first episode THEN Id find it ridiculous too... but they aint.... theyre wearing last decades "costume" let em have it. As for not trusting Frieza, well thats easy... I wouldnt trust Frieza either but I WOULD trust his want to NOT be destroyed and thus would want to live long enough so he can conquer the universe himself, so I would 100% trust him to cooperate long enough for us to survive and win, thus Id deal with him AFTER we've won and I got what I wanted/needed him for just as Im sure he was planning to do to me.

Thunder
>>120719006

That's why we leave it to anime staff. Most of the fans can't write Dragon Ball properly and came up with weird ideas.

Ejhaver

The elder kai thing would’ve been so awesome to see!

Ejhaver
>>120723697

Yea I was literally typing a paragraph similar to this but I agree 100%.

Gohanks

I’ll be honest and say something a bit controversial- the way the Saiyans from U6 were handled was terrible. And yes, that includes Cabba too (I know a ton of people like Cabba over Kale and Caulifla because of his personality, but he’s part of the problem). It boils down to two things- first the ease with which they achieved SSJ, with the shitty ‘S-cells’ retcon. Second, the so called ‘rage’ that triggered Cabba’s transformation may be better than Caulifla’s tingling sensation, but let’s not forget that the circumstances that pushed Cabba to SSJ were not even close to those that pushed Goku or Future Trunks to SSJ, or Gohan to SSJ2. Why didn’t Goku go SSJ when Vegeta attacked Earth and threaten to destroy it? Why didn’t Vegeta go SSJ2 against Super Perfect Cell after he killed Future Trunks? Another thing I hate about them is the fact that they are equal to Goku/Vegeta in base. When Vegeta says you’re an even match for me it makes no sense. Even if they are somehow equal in base power level despite the vast age difference and training, Goku/Vegeta is the far more experienced fighter. Doesn’t skill and experience trump brute force? That’s what DBZ taught us. Goku and Vegeta have spent year after year dealing with huge threats, and thus developing their martial arts core skills at an advanced level. The U6 Saiyans on the other hand literally spend their time fighting a bunch of weakling villains. Finally, Kefla should be nowhere near SSB Kaioken. Shit makes no sense.

Caleb81c
>>120708212

Well that’s the thing. They most likely didn’t know about it. And they didn’t go through the trauma that U7 did to accidentally achieve the transformation.

Jaehwa Jeong
>>120700727

I was not too much of a fan of goten and Trunks just being given their forms as well. Just like anything in life, I firmly believe one has to work hard to achieve your desires.

T.
>>120726360

Nah it wouldn't just apply to Gohan. Goku and Vegeta as pure blooded Saiyan's have a natural capability and the drive to seek out insane levels of power by nature, goku and vegeta obtaining divine power should tell you everything you need to know about their potential. As for Krillin, he hardly ever trains which goes to show, while his potential is nothing compared to the saiyans, he certainly hasn't reached his potential. Piccolo as a warrior constantly improves which means there's levels he's capable of reaching that he hasn't reached yet as well, and same would apply to Tien but his potential, just like Krillin wouldn't compare to piccolo, and most certainly not to the saiyans. Only people I'd say it could be iffy with are android 17 and 18 considering they didn't obtain their strength naturally, and we have no way of knowing if they would be skilled human fighters like krillin and tien if they weren't to become cyborgs. Master Roshi on the other hand bro is old as hell so lets just say he probably reached his potential decades ago LMAO.

Jameelo Jameelo

6th universe Sayians are different from 7th

Jaehwa Jeong

Madison is a huge book reader and the fact that even she said she hates the tingling feeling idea and just giving SSJ transformations away, shows that there are so many better and different ways this could've been written. It takes her a lot to actually hate something. I wonder what she thinks when she sees SSJ2 Caulifla with no effort. Two transformations in like few minutes...

Ninja4christ117

Caulifla going ssj..was just not good. Everyone has known this since it aired. Tingling in the back? Like...hu? Goku went through so much....SO MUCH to reach ssj. Gohan went through SO much to reach ssj 2. Universe 6: Oh it's a tingle in your back....bruh...wtf. Like why. I don't honestly think anyone actually liked this choice. I loved most of super, this though...man.

Zom
>>120709678

dude for real. I gave up on being upset at dbz for asspulls a loooooong time ago.

Jaehwa Jeong
>>120742380

Let's not forget Vegeta and Future Trunks undergoing hard training. But yeah...I shook my head so hard in disbelief.

Zom

Y'all are crazy for thinking Buu absorbing Gohan would somehow be good writing. like WHAT? Also, Buu just has too many BS attacks that would make the tournament basically a Buu show. The worst thing Toriyama introduced was the Hyperbolic Time Chamber. He really should have added some stricter rules to using it.

Venomous

The way caulifla turn ssj, the tingling feeling on your back is a stupid way to turn ssj. Don't know why whoever came up with that idea don't even watch Dragon ball series. Sure anger triggers the transformation but the way caulifla did it was just straight up dumb. Don't need training no nothing to achieve ssj. Like goku, vegeta, gohan, and future trunks went through hard training to achieve that power. And now they showed that there's an easy method to get ssj is bull.

Howard A Fagan-Solis

The big problem is Universe 6 saiyans are so rail thin that it is hard to take them seriously as a threat. If they were drawn athletic and were warriors who knew many martial arts...who had to train a new technique...it would be more palatable that they could put themselves in that mindset... If Cabba went back to sadala and was teaching everyone he could right after the last tournament... and kale and caulifla had been the standouts who could actually pull it off would be cool too....but instead if a u6 saiyan ever did inverted rows...they might realize the legend of super saiyan... and none of them ever stumbled upon it before on accident with it just being a tingly back... Also why not bring cell back? he knew everyones techniques and could complement the team well also far less evil than Frieza. But... as long as you don't think about it much...super is still enjoyable

Tim

the thing you guys dont understand is that frieza is thier best choice becasue thiers is no one else thats stronger buu is a strong fighter but buu wont wake up

BarisTeeAnime
>>120703433

@Robbie -- it's subjective at the end of the day. But hear me out, there was an entire saga dedicated to Frieza in DBZ. He was also in the beginning of the next arc in Z. Super brought Frieza back and gave him another arc / movie. Frieza is now appearing for the 4th time in the Tournament of Power!!

BarisTeeAnime
>>120705671

I thought the episode ended with the music and shut it off before that scene!! I realized when I was editing lol]

BarisTeeAnime
>>120709617

Most of us let the boys get away with SSJ being given to them because of their father's SSJ abilities during their conception. But, I somewhat agree with you on those getting SSJ too early!!

BarisTeeAnime
>>120716564

He also had an entire saga in DBZ and appeared in the beginning of the Android saga! This is his 4th appearance!!

Vegeta

Bunch of us had a convo about this. One of my friends pointed out that the saiyans in U6 might just naturally be more broken or inclined to find power leaps easier than the U7 saiyans because they were never enslaved and were allowed to flourish and grow naturally. BUT he still pointed out it's BS but that could be a sort of explanation That said They rushed a few things in Super. Goku Black arc was a good example. Arc was SOOOOOOO good. Then Vegito shows up for like 2 minutes, then the saga ends LOL I get they wanted to show More female saiyans and the first female super saiyans but it does feel like a HUGE cop out. And the whole tingly back feeling like........cmon. They could have at least made them go SSJ during the TOP. ALSO not ONLY does she go SSJ but almost RIGHT AFTER she goes SSJ2. It's like BRO COME ON NOW

NavonWise
>>120716564

That’s true, I guess it’s all perspective. DBZ ended in the 90s and didn’t come back until the Battle of Gods movie. I guess if you’re watching Super right after DBZ, then it can feel like bringing Freeza back is over kill. Dude is like Joker is to Batman at this point lol

David Garcia Alvarez

I havent seen so many ppl complaining aboput 1 of the most inconsistent trasformation in a anime in my life. Theres only 2 saiyans who get it by rage; Goku and Gohan. Vegeta? We dont know, he just show up ssj when fighting the androids when he didnt even know that Goku was alive. Goten and Trunks? Free, bothe Vegeta and Gohan couldnt explain it. Even further, Gotenks, SSJ 3 only by watching Goku do it (is a ssj + ssj = ssj3 or how does maths works here? not even Vegito could do that). And theres nothing in the "lore" that sais that when you transform into ssj, your genes evolve and now your kids will be auto ssj. This is just a nostalgia for the first SSJ and i get it. But let U6 saiyans getting it this way. Cabba get it by rage, explain how he feels when he do it, so they get it (+ another reasons we dont know about U6 saiyans) and yes, writers was in a rush to give some extra content so TOP is not U11 vs U7 only. And all this is just a glimpse of what is not coherent in DBZ and DBS. Btw, Frieza is by far the better option, not even in his final form he could destroy worlds, i think is better than Yamcha tbh. And Buhan? And after TOP? do they still like this or did i miss something?

Kab
>>120753917

I didn’t have a problem with how Caulifa transform into a Super Sayian because it a different universe. It does not take away what they went through in Universe 7. The only 2 that became super Sayian easily were Goten & trunks because there fathers were super Sayians

Rico_LNT

i’m just hoping that they add more than 1 eps a day frr 😭

Luke H
>>120726360

that’s so boring though, I don’t even think vegeta would do that anyway, gohan and krillin have already done it, I guess you could do it with 17 and Goku but goku gets MUI anyway, wouldn’t have made a difference lmao

Alex Noel
>>120741832

yea fax but in kales case i like that she’s the legendary super sayain in their universe cause she has no control it’s the same as broly (he has control but i meant the deadly ness)

Alex Noel
>>120732937

the buildup was he was training with vegeta putting that work in off-screen

Alex Noel
>>120714040

and he hates vegeta so it’s funny how what he made frieza do to him

Christian Vazquez

The ending of this episode is still one of the most hype endings imo lol

Christian Vazquez

I think Caulifla Super Saiyan is explained via a term (that they made up later) called S-Cells. Basically some Saiyans have more S-Cells which allow them to reach the SSJ transformation easier. I think that’s the closest to an explanation we shall ever get lol

Andrew Walker
>>120703433

I disagree, they preluded it with his hard training and his tendencies to fall asleep. If it was convenience, he wouldn’t have even been in the story, they’d have just said he was asleep and couldn’t compete. They got hopes up on a team and made a twist. My opinion only here but I liked the twist and the resulting actions.

Marcus Ballantyne

So here's the controversial aspect of Super Saiyan, S-Cells. When a Saiyan has enough S-Cells a trigger like anger will cause the amount in their body to increase exponentially and cause a transformation, that's Super Saiyan. A Saiyan's initial S-Cells are determined by their nature. The more gentle, the more S-Cells. However, as a Saiyan gets stronger they develop more.

Zach Morrison

Although the back tingle thing is admittedly weak, I don't think it's any worse or anymore unearned than Trunks and Goten. I'm also willing to headcanon it as universe 6 Saiyans have developed differently than those in the 7th. They don't have tails, and maybe something about their biology makes this easier to attain as well.

Naruto Uzumaki
>>120732937

But the doesn't have anything to do with how SSJ was originally achieved. SSJ came in really emotional moments for a person. U6 sayians are already strong enough for the form, people are just upset behind the new lore.

Eddie Cardenas

The reason they took out Buu was because he is too OP for all those reason you mentioned

Logan McLeod
>>120753917

it's always been crazy to me. the odd switches from Dragon ball fans to Dragon ball critics. i'm gonna try to not over-analyze and enjoy. i know that what's going on has more to do with them than it does with Toriyama

Dr Moss

Caulifla is the definition of an asspull.

Justin

If they could've woken Buu, he could offer a lot of help as a team medic. If I was team captain (and if Buu somehow would listen to me) I would have replaced Krillin with him

Carlos Saravia

I get why people get upset at how easily these saiyans go super Saiyan. But let’s face it. Would you really want to wait around for 90 episodes, for them to do it like they did in Z? Now that’d be ridiculous. Speeding it up, is something that needed to be done.

Sazidul Islam

I heard that universe 6 Saiyan”s are naturally stronger because of evolution.

Brett Knox

I think its poor writing and wack how the character who's been in the show since episode 5 of Dragon Ball gets forgotten.

Muff420

It should have been cell

scott osborne

bringing back frieza is good writing not bad who else in the universe is as powerful as goku and vargeta you all seen that boo is asleep and cell is so f ing weak hes only at the lvl of a super saiyan 2 but i guess they could of gone for pikkon that would of been cool the only poor writing is the back tingles for super saiyan for caulifla when she has never been in deadly battles she on only a boss of a street gang

Phoenixsui

Stop whining about someone getting to SSJ already. My god we dont know the story of the sixth universe exactly. But we know that with every generation on earth it got easier. Why is this so unacceptable for some i wont get it.

Kyle Banks

Vegeta was already in the time chamber so elder Kai and Goku couldn’t have entered.

Luke8694

Thank you Madison! After everything Goku, Gohan, Vegeta, and Future Trunks went through to get SSJ and then push themselves further, I expected better than a "tingly feeling in your back" lol

Puripong Puhual

Yo this episode u guys might be a little bias. Goten and Trunks become ssj so easily with the young ages tho.

Kyle A

Lmfao, Baris, your Roshi laugh impression was spot on 😂😂😂

Cole Evans

I liked the idea of other saiyans, but the way they did the U6 saiyans is complete BS. If they wanted to make them this powerful without dedicating any time to backstory, just leave the backstory a mystery for now. Making these people who are from the same race as goku and vegeta, with the same capabilities and requirements, as powerful as them is absurd, because goku and vegeta have fought galaxy ending threats numerous times and have been training with BEERUS AND WHIS. The U6 saiyans have done absolutely nothing. The “feel the tingle!” completely mocks super saiyan. I love DBS, but the U6 saiyans are the one major stain of the series to me. (Okay, and I despise ribrianne too lmao)

Michael Williams

I think they watched broly movie first, probably why Madison thought frieza was still alive

Derp

I feel like caulifla is like the universe 6 goku, so if she was already strong maybe that’s why she could super saiyan easily