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The West Wing, Season 2, Episode 4 (Patreon)

Published:
2023-03-23 22:09:00
Imported:
2026-06
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Content

Ainsley Hayes!

Files

Previews only

The West Wing, Season 2, Episode 4

Comments

sandrinegeller

I am excited to watch and see your thoughts on Ainsley. I have such mixed reactions on her character and how they choose to write her so I am interested to see your thoughts.

Kat Oliver

I love Ainsley, she was one of my favorite new characters. Emily Proctor nailed her I felt.

Imagine Nat

I love Ainsley, despite the misogyny surrounding her and the dissonance of her dead form of Republicanism. She is such a fun character.

Imagine Nat

Such a hard episode to watch because it is unresolved. Like many things tackled by the show, there is no neat solution to such complex and heartbreaking issues.

Pam Nail

Ainsley is one of my favorite guest characters on the show, probably second only to Mrs. Landingham. The show took some criticism for being too left-leaning but I think Ainsley was a well-written Republican character who wasn't a villain -- just someone with different views. Her scene at the end always gets me, and her friends are the WORST. There's some competition for which guy is the most sexist to her in this episode, but her guy friend takes the cake.

Jack S

succession?

MarkyO

Woohoo! We meet Ainsley! This is a great episode because while yes, Sorkinisms, it's an episode that's really a win for the other side. Every point the White House tried to make was argued against and the other side won. Although now that I think about it, this episode is all about loss. There was no win here for anyone in the end. Also, Ainsley was one of Sorkin's favorite characters.

sandrinegeller

I mostly love Ainsley, but it sometimes feels like Sorkin uses her to defend his weird sexist views of women.

Youtalkingtome
>>104754011

She gave Sam the business. We loved it. Love how she is a counter to the rest of the characters. Very curious to see where they go with her.

Youtalkingtome
>>104755662

Yeah her friends do suck, but I have a feeling she's gunna make some new ones working there! Love Mrs. Landingham as well!

Youtalkingtome
>>104760009

That's how it goes sometimes. You win some, you loose some. No matter how tragic. Great episode and we love her character so far!

Youtalkingtome
>>104763744

Man, I hope not. Even a writer as good as Sorkin can have weak spots. We'll have to see how that plays out!

Skinny_Obelix
>>104763744

I don't feel like that at all. The democrat side of the West Wing is an idealized version of what the Democratic party can be, Ainsley represents the idealized version of what the Republican side was at the time. But neither parties are anywhere close to what they are in real life. I feel like if you accept the white house's democrats, you should accept Ainsley's version of Republican.

Brian Harris

The writing for Ainsley can really be cringe, but in the long-term I think she was good for the show. She made Sorkin a better writer of women eventually, and a better writer of Republicans, which becomes more and more important as the show goes on and bipartisanism becomes one of the major themes.

Luca Siracusa (Bob)

"They're not worthless. They are patriots" Guys, let me say this for this episode so I don't have to repeat myself: if you enjoyed Season 1, get ready. The Second Season of The West Wing is the unanimous peak of the show and you're seeing it. They raised every possible level you could raise and it's going to be like that even more in the near future. I saw your emotions to the last minutes of the episode: Bartlet telling the President he's going to die and his family has been killed, Ainsley defending the administration because of what she saw, Bartlet receiving confirmation of the death of the President of Kundu The Equatorial Kundu is a fictional west African country that Sorkin and the show created to not only address certain problems without having problem with certain states, but also to show that no matter who the subject is, almost all Africa is bombarded daily with these problems Ainsley is a magnificent character added to the administration and specially to this episode. Many could've said in the past episodes that being them all democratics certain decisions were seen by just one point of view (Even tho we had that Sam-Mallory school vouchers thing in Season 1). Ainsley embodies the role of the spectator that first approaches the show When you see episodes that starts with all the characters presenting who they are, those episodes are almost always possible to be watched without prior knowledge of the show. Like a spectator that starts The West Wing from this one, Ainsley starts to know the administration and the people who work there. People that disagree on her on so many levels like the show you in the debate at the end with Sam BUT at the moment there's a crisis they put everything on the side to deal with the bigger problem and they have no problem with you watching of working for them. They may not like your ideas on Guns, you may not like their ideas on schools, but there are bigger things: atrocities that happens in the world where you're not Republican or Democratic. Hell, you're not even American or Kundunese: you're a person. She saw one speech from Bartlet, one moment from him at the end of the episode and decided do work for them. Exactly like all of us saw one speech from Bartlet in the pilot and decided to start the show. This is not even good writing anymore, they really picked every single frame to give a new meaning to all

Skinny_Obelix

The insulin discussion in the US is really eye opening for me. The Biden administration has now limited it to $35 and people are celebrating. While for other first world countries the average price is $10. And this is before social security kicks in. It's just a result of health insurance being able to negotiate bulk deals. I'm Belgian and work for a US company, I love the US and lived in Texas and North Carolina for a while, we were planning to stay. But moved back to Belgium because the social security was a luxury I couldn't live without. If life throws you a curve ball at the wrong moment in your life it's scary, and we weren't willing to risk that.

Roland Cooke

Now that you have a full season under your belt, here's another game you can play as you go along. Remember the very end of S1E1 when Bartlet tells Josh "Don't do it again"....how many more times will Josh "do it again"? I'd argue that telling a Senator to "shove your legislative agenda up your ass" absolutely qualifies... :D

Roland Cooke
>>104786625

It's definitely a legitimate criticism of the show that Republican positions are not appropriately / accurately presented, it's not nicknamed "The Left Wing" for nothing. :) Obviously the character of Ainsley was intended as an offset, but I'm not sure to what extent that was successful, you'd have to ask a spectrum of Republicans. It's also pretty nuts what's happened to the GOP in recent years, I'm not even sure how you would represent that if the show was rebooted today. But either way, but we can all agree that Emily Proctor knocks it out of the park, amazing performance.

sandrinegeller
>>104763744

I don’t object to Ainsley’s version of Republican. I admire it compared to what’s going on now. My problem isn’t her but rather how Sorkin writes the dialogue and behavior of other characters about her and then has her just think it’s funny and not at all sexist or gross. It feels like he uses her to defend his ideals of how women are too sensitive. There’s one specific upcoming episode that’s bad for it but I don’t bring it up now to avoid spoilers.

jimmy2k4o .

you're accusing the right of being censorious??? who through around things like "hate speech" and "misinformation" to silence and intimidate anybody who disagrees with them. look at college campuses and how comedians are either banned no-platformed or decide themselves not to go, it's not because of right wing students. you guys often say stuff i disagree with but i roll with it because i love the freedom to disagree but i had to say something this time. Antifa a far left organisation regualry beats up their opponents the left try to ban stuff, try to get advertisers and publishers to fire people they don't like. ever heard of cancel culture? it's not the right that created that.

Youtalkingtome
>>104786625

Bartlett has a certain allure about him that gets people on his side. Whether or not he's a good President is debatable, but he is indeed a good person. This show is very good at nailing that home. They all have a wonderful sense of duty and loyalty to the office.

Youtalkingtome
>>104788423

That's completely understandable and we could stand to learn from other countries and cultures in order to progress as a nation.

Youtalkingtome
>>104810697

We can agree to disagree. We try to stick to the middle. Both sides aren't completely innocent of everything, it is a matter of perception.

Daywalker

The school lunch thing is a little more complicated than just giving food to kids. I work for a title one school and about half the kids throw out their lunch and just eat chips, noodles or candy from the vending machines or from home. I cringe as I watch the garbage bags of wasted food that get thrown out every day.

Youtalkingtome
>>104905797

There will always be people who take advantage of things and sadly some kids just don't see the big picture. We feel that it is the right approach but it isn't one size fits all so to speak.

Balazs Foldes

Woo-hoo, I'm mostly caught up with West Wing reactions! Or, well, okay, watched the full reactions for the last four episodes, goof enough. This is a tough and heavy episode, punctuated by incredibly well timed comedic clockwork master-writing for the Sam-Ainsley stuff. Sure, there is still a bit of sexism in the writing, I get it, but the comedy is so great. That shotting duel of a conversation between Leo and Ainsley, that rhythm, it's just wonderful. And, the heavy stuff is really heavy. It leaves you exhausted, frustrated, desperate, and wanting to just cry. Which is a pretty good representation of the whole issue, plus the final blow of the fall and execution of the Prezident. I guess, having the ups and down within a single episode is a good way to make sure that the downs hit even harder, it's a talented, pro way of scriptwriting. Your first instinct would be, a serious episode should not have light-hearted pieces, it would be frivolous, tasteless, and would take away the edge of the tragedy. But, clearly, if done properly, it works, or even works much more. Really, it's a bit like cooking. You don't want to make your desert all too sweet and intense, you need contrasting tastes and textures, so you can really feel the others, otherwise your taste-buds just go numb. The same way, this episode used bits of sweet ainsleyness to counter-point the real tragic AIDS and coup things. Anyway, love it all! Can't wait for your next reaction. Hmm, may have to go back and watch some of the earlier full-time reaction episodes from season 1, having seen only the youtube versions... Question: where do you watch your West Wing for the reaction? I was watching along on HBO Max, but my show was definitely higher speed than yours. (It may be a European vs US thing, I don't know). It's annoying that I have to pause my HBO maybe around every scene for a couple of seconds to mae yours catch up...

Jack
>>104763744

@sandrinegeller genuine question: is it Sorkin, or is it the 90s? I'm a little young to be certain of it, but it does feel like 20-30 years ago sexist (and sexualised) comments behind people's backs were commonplace, and women were expected to roll with it when comments like that were made to their face.

Jack
>>104793665

That, plus his whole exchange with the press corps when CJ has root canal! "You sure you want your one question to be that stupid?"

sandrinegeller
>>104763744

I think that's a good question. There is absolutely a part of it that is the time period and I try to excuse that. Like the politics in the show, some of the behavior and sexism is unfortunately a feature of the times. My major problem is more when it moves past a kind of gross comment (which is terrible but is done to CJ and Donna on occasion too). It is more when they make it a feature of the storyline to be sexist to Ainsley and write the script to defend it. There is one specific episode where it bothers me that I will point out when it comes around. But I know it's subjective and some people will have different interpretations.

Jack
>>104927724

Really interesting that you said that - my playback is the same, slightly too fast, I have to pause every couple of scenes too. I'd assumed it was my copy, but I'm not watching on HBO Max so perhaps it's not us...

Jack

Just thought I might add a positive thought to the really sad AIDS/pharmaceutical companies plot: AIDS deaths peaked shortly after this episode, and are now *way* down. In Africa as a whole AIDS deaths are down 71% from the peak of 264 per 100,000 people in 2003 down to 76 in 2019. That's still obviously high in absolute terms (in the US it's 1.77), but it's consistently falling substantially every year, and has been for 20 years.

Weird Magic

Originally airing on October 25, 2000, "In This White House" is Episode 4 of Season 2 of The West Wing. It is the 26th episode overall and has an IMDB rating of 8.7, placing it as the #9 ranked episode of this season and #26 out of all 155 episodes.

Youtalkingtome
>>104927724

We use HBO, that is weird the speed is different. Could just be a slight timing issue. You nailed it though, the contrast is brilliant and time and time again he uses it and it completely floors you.

Youtalkingtome
>>104947527

It's good to know that in real life there have been changes and support. Human being are absolutely amazing when they want to be.