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The West Wing, Season 2, Episode 8 (Patreon)

Published:
2023-04-18 23:50:06
Imported:
2026-06
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Content

Shibboleth

Files

Previews only

The West Wing, Season 2, Episode 8

Comments

Weird Magic

Originally airing on November 22, 2000, 'Shibboleth' is Episode 8 of Season 2 of The West Wing. It is the 30th episode overall and has an IMDB rating of 8.5, placing it as the #12 ranked episode of this season and #39 out of all 155 episodes.

Imagine Nat

I always tear up twice in this episode as well. The relationship between Charlie and President Bartlet always resonates with me. And especially after an episode of having your high ideals and hopes deflated by reality, this one restores our faith in humanity a little.

MarkyO

holy shit wtf it's not thursday

Taylor

The Paul Revere knife is one of my favorite scenes in the whole show. Dulé’s face never fails to make me cry. This and the season 3 Thanksgiving episode are mandatory watches for my family every year.

Peggy G

the knife! ugh, wrecks me every time! <3

Peggy G
>>106663369

shhhh!! let them post episodes at will! I'd love a surprise 4 episode upload so we can binge-watchalong ;) xoxo

MarkyO

You'll be seeing that alot throughout the show.. the whole introducing each character during the recap. What a fucking episode. One of my favorites. The thing that gets me every time was the look Charlie gives Bartlet when he tells him where the knife came from. Such an incredible scene. One thing to note, both Dule Hill and Rob Lowe had a kind of father-son relationship with Martin Sheen. In fact, Rob Lowe grew up living next to Martin Sheen and hung out with his sons as well. Dule Hill and Martin Sheen share a secret handshake with one another. I also love that the episode doesn't specify whether or not he passed the test or whether the think he was coached or a legitimate Christian. Leaves it open. But moreso, doesn't matter whether he was Christian or not, they needed help. They wanted a new and better life.

Anna

Toby's comment always makes me think about pledging allegiance to the flag in elementary school. It's not the same, but as a kid it struck me as odd that we were required to do something like that so I always pretended to without saying the words.

Mithroch

Josh is from Connecticut, Toby from the Brooklyn, and Sam from California... I don't think any of them are Washington fans.

Sarah P
>>106664471

Ooh! I watched this show a LOT like 10 years ago but haven’t since so I can’t remember what happens in the S3 Thanksgiving one, but I watch a few of their HanukKristmas episodes every year. I’ll have to wait and see if I remember anything once we get into that season. I may have to add the Thanksgiving episodes to my yearly traditions!

Sarah P
>>106666210

Such a great point in your last paragraph that I’ve never considered. Also didn’t know that about Dulé Hill/Rob Lowe. Thanks!

jimmy2k4o .

Guys I’m loving these videos. When I see there’s a new one to watch before work I was very excited. I’ve sometimes argued with you guys about gay conservatives, or nukes in Ukraine etc etc. I’ve always meant to be respectful in line with how the show shows respectful disagreements. I hope I never fell short of it.

jimmy2k4o .

With that being said prayer in school should be allowed. And I’m an atheist btw. But freedom of speech should protect prayer in school, there is no legal separation of church and state (only Jefferson’s letter to the baptists on Danbury Connecticut, where he said “there shall forever be a wall of separation between church and state” That’s where the phrase comes from but it was never inshrined in law, and even if it was it’s still not an easy argument to make that free prayer by students in the school they pay for is wrong, when the army, navy, airforce, marine, etc all have government funded chaplains. They often open congress with a prayer. Total double standard but there is the establishment Claus of the first amendment “congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or restricting the free exercise thereof” Means they cannot be forced to pray but they shouldn’t be prevented either. Just purely going by the constitution.

jimmy2k4o .

i don't disagree with your views on immigration it's just worth pointing out that the immigrnts in cages began under obama and didn't get any real media attention until trump took over. don't disagree, just pointing out the double standards.

Zachary Loeser

One more thing about Martin Sheen and his being up for Best Actor instead of Best Supporting Actor: Martin Sheen *wanted* to put himself up for Best Supporting but it was only after *literally everyone* pointed out that he would be going up against every other guy in the cast that he relented. Also: As incredible as this episode is, it still doesn't crack the top three this season (I'd put it as perhaps #5). But don't worry! Later this season is Sorkin's answer to King Lear which will leave your jaws on the floor... and ALSO not crack the top three. I don't know what to tell you guys, Aaron Sorkin wrote out of his mind this season.

Jack
>>106675497

I think generally when we're writing comments, if we find ourselves starting a sentence with "Later this season..." then we should probably delete that sentence. That is if we want the reactors to give us the genuine "don't know what to expect" reaction that we're presumably all hoping for.

Jack
>>106675099

He said "kids in cages". That policy of deliberate family separation was unique to Trump.

Martin Nicholls
>>106675099

The alternative is you throw the kids in prison with their parents. It's really easy to take a high level view and just say it's wrong, but Trump wanted to stop the practice of illegal migrants entering the US at all - once you decide illegal migration not so good it creates a whole slew of new problems: that one was mishandled, but probably not in *that* way.

Martin Nicholls

By the way on the introducing people thing it's as much a joke about how Bartlet is always forgetting people's names. By the way, spot the Thanksgiving episode much - that must mean there's a Christmas episode coming.. \o/

Weird Magic

The dork in me would like to point out that there were 3 pictures prominently displayed on the President's desk. One of him and Abbey, one of just Abbey, and one of just Zoey. Where are the other two daughters (despite not being cast yet!) :) Since he gave Charlie the knife it would assume the pecking order in his family would be: Abbey Zoey Charlie Daughters 1 & 2

Renee Pope-Munro

Hey guys! I finally caved and subbed bc there are so few WW reactors, but I am finding that every single ep is out of sync time wise with my VOD version of the show - does anyone else have this issue? I end up having to pause my version multiple times an ep to try and re-sync

Zachary Loeser
>>106675497

Eh... The reference I used is more of a thematic dessert topping than anything else. I intentionally avoided anything resembling a plot description.

Luca Siracusa (Bob)

"Faith is the true Shibboleth" as in Faith is the only thing you need to be a Christian This episode made everyone tear up so many times, both with the Shibboleth scene and even more with the Paul Revere knife: Martin Sheen and Dulè Hill developed a real father-son relationship on set and Jed and Charlie did too Remember in the third episode when they first met, how far they've come. How close they are. They banter like real father and sons. I could say a lot of stuff about this episode, but I won't: you guys felt what they wanted you to feel and it was really sweet. You both are a shining light with your reactions The only thing I wanted to add, because I see you read every comment and learn from it: every time the episode starts with a montage of characters presenting their names and roles, the episode was meant to be one that you could watch without previous knowledge of the show. You can spot them this way

Balazs Foldes
>>106748491

Welcome to our little club here! Yes, I have the same issue. (Also, my HBO Max WW show does not seem to have the recaps at the start, so a slightly different HBO Max version from Kevin & Joe). My buest guess is that it may be some kind of regional nonesense (I'm sitting in Hungary), I had similar issues with some reactors in the past. I don't have a good solution either - every scene or two, I pause my HBO for a few seconds, and try to use the little background part of the picture I see in their reaction to synch up with my show. A little troublesome, but such is life.

Balazs Foldes

Yeah, this is a great episode. A very fun mix of humour (pilgrim detectives and turkeys are fun!). interesting policy and issues (school prayer), and the little heartbreaking character moments (a knife, really) that just does a great West Wing episode.

Jack
>>106675099

Yep, that is the alternative and absolutely the correct solution. Of course they should be with their parents. 500 of Trump's separated children are still separated from their parents who cannot be identified.

Jack
>>106675497

Spoilers are for more than just plot. Spoiling theme or quality is also a spoiler because it also unhelpfully raises or lowers expectations. That "dessert topping" will be all the sweeter if the reactors discover it for themselves rather than getting a whiff of it ahead of time. Setting expectations doesn't improve things for anyone: it doesn't improve the viewing experience for the reactors, it doesn't improve their reaction for our benefit, and it doesn't make you look wise or cool. Best to just avoid doing it.

Jack
>>106748491

Yep, I have the same issue. No idea why. My versions are torrent downloads rather than HBO Max, so it's not just that platform.

Youtalkingtome
>>106666210

Exactly, they saved their lives. That's one of the most Christian things I can think of. Also I would love to see the secret handshake.

Youtalkingtome
>>106674161

I agree that if people wanna pray, then they should pray. Making it mandatory should not be a thing. Toby is right. It will exclude certain children and other kids will recognize that and use it to their advantage.

Weird Magic
>>106702250

OMG - is it? I swear he has said "my youngest daughter" in previous episodes....OMG - if I spoiled that - 1000 apologies!

Youtalkingtome
>>106759386

Thanks for clarifying that for us! We appreciate that, we're very transparent and we wanna give all of you our very honest opinion of a terrific show!

Weird Magic
>>106702250

OK - quick WestWingpedia check - in the pilot episode (S1-E1) Bartlet gives a speech starting with "Seems my Grandaughter Annie"...which couldn't be Zoe's kid so it must be inferred that it is an older child

jimmy2k4o .
>>106674161

True. I totally accept Toby’s point. But I think he’s approaching the problem wrong. He says if prayer is allowed in schools the Christian’s will exclude the non Christians and bully them. So no preying… I see his logic but I think you’re fighting the firefighters rather than the fire. The problem isn’t preying, it’s bullying. If they don’t bully them for religion it will be something else. Looks, weight, wealth, intelligence etc It’s natural social behavior for kids. I wish it wasn’t but it is. In my country we have no separation but we’re a much less religious Society than USA. We have an official church, that the king is the head of, most schools are either catholic/Protestant/Jewish/Muslim and many are a mix. I went to a catholic school in Scotland that was state funded, we had Protestants/Hindus/Muslims/Buddhists/even English people were allowed in after quarantine (on occasion, they never lasted long though, they always tragically committed suicide by beating themselves to death and dumping their bodies in the river afterwards) so tragic….

jimmy2k4o .
>>106675099

So you believe it’s better to lock up kids than separate them from their parents? I know foster system isn’t great but it’s not better than a detention prison. Kids being raised in prison, don’t wanna steal material from South Park, but that’s basically the origin story of a Batman villain. When parents commit other crimes, they’re separated from their parents when their parents are arrested, is that wrong too? I mean ofcourse it’s wrong, but is there a better solution you can think of? I mean the only solution is that only adults with children are immune from imprisonment? Or you put children in a adult detention/prison? With who knows what kind of people and who knows what security…. How many incidents of abuse would need to happen before they change the policy? I think the only solution is to dedicate a US territory to housing and processing and of immigrant/refugee applications. A secure place where they can have dignity, freedom, responsibility, while their application is being accessed. Maybe Guantanamo bay would work, it’s secure, it’s near by, it’s not just a. Prison or army base, it’s a whole little community, like a town. It also be a reason to finally close that prison at gitmo. Morality aside, gitmo is the biggest favour the west did for Al Qaeda. Gave them great propaganda, recruiting material, inspired more attacks etc. There no equivalency between Al Qaeda and the USA. Their huge differences were clear to everyone. Then (with our help) gitmo and torture started. We lost the world’s sympathy, and support. We were a culture of laws and principles and some people decided that sacrificing those laws and principles was less of a risk to our society than a suicide bomber. Al Qaeda wanted to attack our way of life and our freedoms, well who can say they didn’t succeed, even just a little bit. Also many reports of people at the border claiming to be family but aren’t, I know they’re a small %. But if you give preferential treatment to migrants with kids then people will lie to get that treatment. Would you? If you had the chance to move to america from a less than wonderful country and your odds would improve if you pretend to be family with an unaccompanied child, wouldn’t you? It happened here, during the Syrian refugee crisis of 2014 the eu determined that 60% of the migrants weren’t Syrian but claimed they were because it would help their application. Again I would lie about my nationality if I were them.

Mithroch
>>106669841

Well... it's Thanksgiving... so probably whoever is playing the Cowboys.

Brendon Waldron
>>106748491

It's happening with me too. As I'm in a PAL country I assumed it's because I'm watching 25fps versions as I have this issue often...

Joy M

The one thing that has always bothered me about this episode is that Toby eludes to being picked on for being different (Jewish), yet he is from Brooklyn. He would have had many classmates who were also Jewish. While antisemitism is all over, I just find it strange.

jimmy2k4o .
>>107239649

Maybe because of his intelligence he went to a non public school with a different demographic