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The West Wing, Season 3, Episode 4 (Patreon)

Published:
2023-08-23 17:45:00
Imported:
2026-06
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Content

Ways And Means

Files

Previews only

The West Wing, Season 3, Episode 4

Comments

Weird Magic

Every political topic that has a "Right Answer" has already been decided. The only topics people ever debate about are the ones that have salient points on both sides...I haven't agreed with every side you've landed on but do agree you have the right to state it, followed by said salient points. I wish more people in the world would just agree to disagree and not get so hot and bothered by E V E R Y T H I N G. Originally airing on October 24, 2001, 'Ways and Means' is Episode 4 of Season 3 of The West Wing. It is the 48th episode overall and has an IMDB rating of 7.8, placing it as the #22 ranked episode of this season and #43 out of all the episodes shown so far.

Martin Nicholls

I want to say things I can't say because spoilers but it's a good set-up episode. I'm personally generally against dead wealth despite generally being fairly economically conservative - it's not doing anybody any favours sat in a Swiss bank account in far too high numbers for anybody to legitimately use, even if you consider having 4 PJ's and a super-yacht or two legitimate, I'm somebody who leans towards taking inheritance taxation but reducing taxation on legitimate investment and hates fake investment for the sake of reporting losses. Hard to police, though - on the investment thing but also the wealthier people are the more likely they are to find ways around that sort of thing, if you tax it too high then you get nothing. For me with inheritance taxation it's about where the line(s) are and at what rate it's set - and you don't really want to be seen to be stealing wealth that people have spent their entire lives working towards - it's just wasted political capital.

Pam Nail

- This episode is #46 in my ranked list of all the episodes in the show (third fave of S3). - CJ is on fire in this episode! The way she plays the press is Littlefinger-esque (only not evil :P). - This is at least the second time this show has used an inanimate object to destroy us with emotion. Last season it was a knife, now it's a box of pens. - It's nice to see Ainsley again. Love her rapport with the staff, notably CJ and Donna (and another brief playful exchange with Sam). - I'm a big fan of Cliff Calley. This show was frequently accused of being a liberal fantasy, so I'm always glad to see a Republican character that's not a cartoon or a cult member. The actor, btw, is Mark Feuerstein and he's done some movies and a looooooot of TV, including starring roles in Royal Pains and Good Morning, Miami. - Also love seeing Mark Richardson again. He and Victor Campos are some of my favorite Democrat characters on the show, because they have their own agenda and don't just fall in line with everything the President does just because they're in the same party. It's not their job to keep the White House from looking weak because they don't work for the President.

D Gyre

I like this episode a lot and I love this show, but I noticed when I rewatched in recent years, either because I'm older or its a different time, there's just these little things that irk me. Those hints of chauvinism or sexism. I like this episode, there's so much and its' such a good setup for what's coming...but one the reasons I can't love is the whole 'ballerina' thing. The fact that even president Bartlett makes a comment like its somehow demeaning for Josh to have wanted to be a ballerina, like its not "manly." It's a joke and it's a tiny nitpicking thing, but I can't help it, it *slightly* tarnishes an otherwise outstanding episode that keeps it from being one of those top ones.

Paul T Hewes

the "Josh, 'ballerina' ?" was a great bit. Part of the on going bit where Josh says something and it gets back to the President somehow. It started with the pilot episode and the "tax evasion" line, and includes the Latin name for yams, and the Allman Brothers.

Sandee B

I haven’t watched your reaction yet. The one inconsistency that has always bothered me about this episode is Oliver. It was not too long ago that he insisted that POTUS get the most Bartlett-hating special prosecutor and and basically say “Bring it on”. Yet in this episode, he’s singing a different tune. Not sure why Aaron Sorkin made this change for him.

Devon Cooper

Great reaction as always you guys! I am so enjoying watching this along with y’all and I can’t wait until you get to see the new executive secretary 🤩

Yannick, from Montréal

Thanks for the "shout-out" ;-) I watched the series when it was originaly broadcast, and it's still on my top 5 series ever. I have the Box set that looks like folders (great set BTW). Watch it every year since then! And I know you're on the lookout for other great TV shows... and you'll probably won't believe me, but if you're somewhat interested in sci-fi, the best series in the last couple of years has to be Andor. I know, I know, you may think it's in the same line as Book of Bobba Fet (real crap), Obi-Wan (even worse), and Mandalorian (watchable, but no more). Andor is seriously worth the watch... I call it "West Wing in Star Wars universe" Great acting, stellar cast, magnificient sets and camera work, superb script and plot line.

Noah

Josh Lyman was based on Rahm Emanuel, who before becoming mayor of Chicago (and before being President Obama's chief of staff), worked for President Clinton. he actually WAS a ballerina. i can't confirm this was an intentional inside joke, but it seems very much like something Sorkin would do/write

Roland
>>115913401

Andor really is a masterclass in "political spy thriller" writing from Tony Gilroy (Michael Clayton) with support from Beau Willimon (US House of Cards), among others. In fact their backgrounds contributed to the show actually receiving a small amount of flak for not being Star Warsy enough (very few aliens for example).

jimmy2k4o .

Putting aside the morality of giving amnesty because you assume they’ll vote for your party….. That’s not a safe assumption, many Latinos are very religious and value hard work (contrary to the stereotype) all the GOP need to do is soften their rhetoric and they’ll flank you. Also assuming that minority groups will vote left is not only dangerous it’s also a little insulting. I resist labels but I’m part of the lgbt group and im not sure why but the idea that my orientation would decide who I vote for seems very presumptuous. For the record in my country it’s the Conservative Party that legalized gay marrige and we have many lgbt conservative MPs The homophobia we have in the uk comes mostly from British Muslims, that tend to vote Labour left. there are some British Christians that act homophobic but there are few of f them because there’s no tolerance for homophobia in the uk. And the few British Christians we have are not like American Christians, they don’t push their faith or even talk about it that much. It’s just cultural, we aren’t very religious and the ones that are, know they’re outnumbered.

Emptysea93
>>115944416

Honestly as an LGBTQ person I think it is fine for people will assume I will vote left because of my identity, specifically because it is our identity that is being attacked. That may have been your experience in the UK, but as someone who has lived in both the UK and US, I think that while there is a clear difference between the two two types of conservatism, the Conservative Party still has numerous homophobic members and still use homophobic rhetoric at times, but more subtly than US COnservatives. The main anti-LGBTQ bigotry i see in the UK now is anti-trans rhetoric and that is coming from people of all sides, yes including Labour. However notably it is the Conservative party that has been feeding into the anti-trans rhetoric the most from what I have seen. It is also one of the reasons both Peter Gibson and Mike Freer specifically cited the Conservative party's homophobia and transphobia when they resigned from Johnson's government.

Youtalkingtome
>>115885431

You made a great point. Between Ainsley and Cliff we have two Republicans that are very well presented and really nice characters. CJ killed it!

Balazs Foldes

I love the feeling of the episodes when the staff goes into commando mode and fights tough. Let Bartlet be Bartle', followed by 'Senator, why don't you take your legislative agenda, and shove it up your ass?' or, 'Bring it on!' Or, this one. CJ is a bad ass, street-fighting press secretary, when she wants to be. :)

Balazs Foldes

Being a tax advisor, I love clever argument about tax systems. Specifically, about sales tax... yes, it can be regressive. But not necessarily that much as people think. Most VAT/sales tax systems introduce reduced tax rates, or even exemptions for essential commodities - say, basic food items. So, somebody who only buys essential things would pay little in such consumption taxes. On the other hand, luxury spendings and high-end consumption goods that rich people would spent a lor of their money on would get taxed at the highest rates. For example, in my home country, we pay 27% VAT as the standard rate on 'everything else'; but some basic stuff (like milk, many kinds of meat, eggs, or e.g. books and many pharma products) are taxed at 5% only. And I now, 27% sounds like awfully high. But we have a personal income tax rate of 15%, flat rate, at the same time. So, people don't necessary care how the tax that they pay is called - they just care, how much money they can spend. Now, as opposed to sales taxes, personal income tax, and especially corporate income tax tends to be very unreliable. Companies can use clever accounting tricks to wash away profits, shift them to countries with very favorable tax schemes, or use tricky tax benefits and holidays to avoid paying taxes. Personal income taxes could work, but a) many people who earn REAL money earn it as business income, not as personal income, and use the tricks mentioned above to get away with minimal taxation; and b) many people get paid black wages, undeclared money and never pay fair taxes instead. While sales taxes are much more effectively collected - the big retailers, shops, stores will not play around and pay sales taxes on their sales. So, in reality, sales taxes are much more effective and difficult to avoid. But, there are no clear answers to these policy questions, for sure. That's the fun part. :)

Youtalkingtome

Further, where we live (KS), there is no difference in rates on items; thus, we have the highest grocery sales tax in the nation.

JVTrickypants

One of my favorite little things is when Leo's VCR doesn't work...so simple but brilliant!!

Luca Siracusa (Bob)

After rushing Season 2 with no brakes and coming at a sudden halt in Two Cathedrals and Manchester, the show starts to accelerate again, ready for a new challenge There isn't really a lot to talk about this episode if not for "We're coming back to something we're used to", we see people fighting the fights, all together, everyone helping each others, some gags like the Ballerina and deep moments like the pen This is to say: the peak of The West Wing is not followed by a downhill, but by many many more mountains

Youtalkingtome
>>116932756

I love that about the show. It had a great season and finale, but that's not the end! It has an uphill battle and we are totally here for it.

Cristy

One of my favourite episodes of season 3. I always enjoy the CJ-centric episodes because Allison Janney is such a commanding actor. I also like seeing Ainsley as it has been a while. As much as I love that she's friendly with everyone it is kind of funny and so unrealistic to me that, as a Republican, she would help CJ with her overtly political plan haha. But at the same time, I know she is their lawyer it just seems a bit of a stretch. Not that I am complaining at all as I love her being one of the team lol.