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Malevolent: Chapter 198 [POLL] (Patreon)

Published:
2024-01-25 12:00:12
Imported:
2026-06

Poll

Malevolent: Chapter 198 [POLL]

  • Go Willingly 100
  • Don't Go Willingly 195
  • 2024-01-23
  • 295 votes
{'title': 'Malevolent: Chapter 198 [POLL]', 'choices': [{'text': 'Go Willingly', 'votes': 100}, {'text': "Don't Go Willingly", 'votes': 195}], 'closes_at': None, 'created_at': datetime.datetime(2024, 1, 23, 22, 43, 25, tzinfo=datetime.timezone.utc), 'description': None, 'allow_multiple': False, 'total_votes': 295}

Comments

Flamia

NEVER STOP FIGHTING

Kenza Breton

do not go gentle into that good night

Oakland

we don’t know if arthur needs to be alive for this machine to work, and the butcher has a gun to noel’s head. if we resist there is a good chance both him and arthur will die. even if not, we are outnumbered ten to one, there’s no way we’re going to win this fight and struggling will only make it worse.

SoapCarver
>>127893341

I imagined Arthur maybe getting in one good punch before being absolutely buried under a pile of bodies. XD

Teakettle

I do understand the reasoning behind not going willingly, but I am very much in favour of not getting shot in the face. To reiterate what I said on Discord: I am very much in favour of the "go willingly" side, for a number of reasons. -First, and probably least important, the parallels to part 12. We chose to go willingly there, my sense of narrative tells me we should do the same here. This is rationally indefensible, so I'm not even going to try. -More importantly, we're not really in a position to be particularly defiant here. We are outnumbered, surrounded, Larson brought an eldritch entity to a gun fight, and this is even before considering the Butcher. This is not a fight we can win right now, so either we play along and maybe buy ourselves a bit of time, or things may go very badly for us. -Relatedly, I can't help being reminded of when we tried to grab a loaded gun from a policeman, just to promptly be shot in the face. That was a bad idea then, and I think if we don't comply we might be onto a similar bad idea now.

Unorthofox

Never give up, never surrender!

MomoTheMoogle
>>127895647

As much as I don't want to go willingly, you make a very valid argument. Couple that with being concerned about the literal gun to Noel's head....yeah, resisting probably isn't a good idea here. If the decision goes toward going willingly, I just hope John doesn't take it the wrong way...

MomoTheMoogle
>>127893341

Much as I don't want to admit it, you are indeed correct. Resisting here could only end badly as far as I can tell. I certainly don't want Arthur to go willingly, but I feel like it's the lesser of two wrongs here.

IJT

Too risky to try putting up a fight here, going willingly might at least buy us some time/present a better opening 😬

K.M.

While I am team resist - I do feel it’s fair to tell everyone that Harlan very specifically on discord implied Arthur doesn’t need to be alive for the machine to work.

Teakettle
>>127895647

Well also, Harlan very much stirred the pot in Discord. But all this is even before he pointed out the gun to Noel's head.

JustaLoon

Go willingly? Been there. Done that. Got strapped to a table and sent to the dreamlands because of it. I know this decision most likely won't change the outcome of Arthur being put into the machine. Like, that's gonna happen regardless, right? Team fight has no plan and we know it. We ball. But team go willingly seems to think that Arthur will secretly pull a rabbit out of his hat at the last moment while strapped down. Didn't happen in s1 in the underground city, nor the time we were tied down in the basement by the Butcher we were at the mercy of Scratch. Constantly the victim of circumstance. Hard pass.

Nicky
>>127899398

Just want to make sure those not in the Discord are aware: Harlan pointed out there is nothing indicating Arthur has to be alive to go into the machine. This implies that choosing Resist could lead to the cult outright killing him and Noel before shoving Arthur’s corpse into the machine. An alive and conscious Arthur has more chance of sabotaging it once inside than a dead one

Brisk

I think this is about Arthur's mindset and I don't want him to give in willingly.

Nicky
>>127900439

Going Willingly at this stage isn’t about surrendering to Larson just yet. I think it’s more about buying time to come up with a way to sabotage / fight back later when less clearly surrounded, outnumered, over powered. John saw the blueprint. As long as Arthur is alive when they go in, John might be able to guide him into some sabotage

JustaLoon
>>127899398

I suppose the same could be said for the opposite. When Larson sent the Butcher after Arthur, he wanted to kill him and make sure the "body was never found" including for Larson? Why dump the body in some place Larson couldn't retrieve it? But then something changed. He suddenly wanted to see Arthur before the Butcher killed him. I think at this point he discovered the sauce(tm). If I was in Larson's shoes and I knew I didn't need Arthur alive for my new machine to work, why tell Butcher to keep him alive? To gloat? Last time that happened and Larson threw Arthur into the mines he clawed his way out, killing his monster and Uncle to bat. If I was a smart man, which I guess this is implying Larson is not, I would have told Colins to put a bullet in him and go after Daniel. None of this mustache twirling and poking the tiger. Especially if I know that he has a piece of the KiY in him. This includes the present moment. Why start monologuing if he was so sure that he didn't need him alive? Why not send your minions to get the jump on him, knock him out, and plug him up? Something is not adding up.

JustaLoon
>>127899398

Idk it just implies that maybe Larson himself isn't 100% sure on whether he needs Arthur alive, and would just prefer Arthur doesn't give him the chance to be a gambling man.

aCrawlingChaos

reminder that harlan said that arthur's dignity is not the only thing at stake here. we're assuming he needs to be ALIVE to go in but that's definitely not guaranteed. also a big thing at stake here is john is fading and this machine might save him, that sounds like one of the few reasons arthur WOULD go willingly.

Brisk
>>127900439

The way Booth John talked about the poll insinuated that this was about wether Arthur would let John go willingly. I don't think this is just about going into the machine. Either way though if they step out of that machine unseparated Larson will just kill Arthur. Maybe try to fix the machine and shove him back in.

K.M.

Okay I’m fighting this really hard for unfathomable reasons and it may be because my meds haven’t kicked in yet or something but ANYWAY. Reasons to fight. I need everyone to understand that the question isn’t “what will buy time” and that I believe the second he’s in that machine that’s it. Period. He will be in there and we will have a horrid dream sequence of John being torn away and then the next vote will be how to kill Larson while blind and disoriented. We are going to be sent to an awful hell dimension end of season no matter what. I would rather fight on the way out. We KNOW next season is more season 2 monstery vibes. I don’t want to just lay down and take like a good doggy and no way in HELL Arthur “let’s make a deal with scratch to avoid being captured” Lester would. A lot of people want to go willingly to save Noel. And I would like to state that that is not enough to convince me to walk willingly into my own saw trap. Noel is already on a fine thread. Already was ignoring Arthur and trying to get an answer on whose voice is in his head. He *will* turn on us the second he knows. So if the reason to go willingly is to “save Noel” then I’m sorry, but he’s also a liability. Reducing harm means nothing to me. I WILL let the world blow up to save John and Arthur. Also how sick would it be for the woman that is scratch to show up at the very last moment and be the one to toss them into a new world. Ha! Okay anyway. NEVER GIVE UP NEVER BACK DOWN! Oh man I can’t wait to come back and read this.

JustaLoon
>>127900439

How would John be able to guide him through sabotage when the grand vizier is telegraphing to the world what John is saying?

K.M.
>>127902220

ALSO! Do I think I’m right? FUCK NO! Don’t listen to me- I’ve been right about one question this whole time and it was bread or cheese. If cheese won we would be in the Good timeline rn

JustaLoon
>>127902014

This is one of the few good arguments for going willingly is to save John. Even though we are different sides of the aisle, I shake your hand. 🤝

Nicky
>>127900439

John could try ordering him to silence first, and he could plan it out, be subtle and quick with his instructions to Arthur. No guarantee, but a possibility

Brisk
>>127900439

The vizier is copying John in near complete time with him. It's like he can read his mind. If John ordered him to be silent the vizier would say it out loud and yellow could just tell him to ignore the last order

aCrawlingChaos
>>127902014

🤝 as much as i adore the idea of arthur fighting to keep john, i would also like for both of them to be alive (plus john angst=)

Brisk
>>127902014

Which means if John and Arthur resist at any point they can easily shoot him and shove him back into the machine. Plus John knows what's happening to him and he doesn't want to go. He knows the risks he knows he's fading. Arthur promised he wouldn't let him be a prisoner of the king again and if he's fully absorbed then the John we knew may cease to exist regardless

Alexi

arthur has died to keep john out of the kings hands before and if necessary he will do it again!!!!! no way are we handing john over to them without a fight no thank you

Fisher

Hello. We need to go willingly. It is the only option that makes sense here and is, in fact, 100% in character for Arthur. Here’s why I believe that:

Hyde, World’s Best Shoggoth

Go willingly, if we don’t Noel with probably get tortured by the Butcher to keep Arthur in line, maybe killed, and then Arthur will be injured and most likely tied up which will limit our moves later! There’s way too many people in this room, we are completely outnumbered, we end up in the same place no matter what we do, but we can make the damage lesser

Fisher
>>127905013

How is trying to resist in a situation where he’s physically outmatched in every single way, has another person who he wants to protect, and opens up the very real chance of himself being shot and killed anyways because “the machine may not need Arthur to live” the best option to vote for? The most common thing I’m seeing from people advocating to resist is that at least Arthur would “go down fighting,” like there isn’t a way for him to physically resist but he should do it anyways even at the expense of his or Noel or John’s lives because of the principal of it, but he’s going to end up on the machine either way. The only thing that complying right now would do is prevent Arthur and Noel from being killed immediately, but it seems to me that resisting is actually the one that’s kind of like “throwing in the towel” and just accepting that Arthur/John/Noel are gonna die anyways so it doesn’t matter if they resist and causalities are sustained and I don’t agree with that. I think complying here is exactly what Arthur told Noel they need to do - keep a calm, cool head, don’t take risks you don’t have to take. This isn’t the last vote of the episode and I refuse to accept that there’s no other ways out of this, we just can’t risk it right now by trying to fight when we are so outmatched.

Fisher
>>127905013

I wanted to give a shot at getting into Arthur’s head here and thinking about what his reasoning for going willingly may be that ISN’T him deciding to just “give up on John”, so here’s that: Why Arthur would go willingly: 1. Noel‘s safety. Regardless of how Noel may or may not turn on them when he learns the truth, I think Arthur’s heart wouldn’t want him to die because Arthur tried to fight back despite Noel having a gun to his head right now. It would mirror back when Arthur gave himself up to the Butcher to protect the life of the man in the apartment. He doesn’t like people dying for him, he’ll sacrifice himself but when there’s others involved he wants to protect them. 2. Arthur may conclude that there is no way for John to remain with him without fading. If he’s convinced that John really is dying he may be willing to get into the machine to save him. I wouldn’t think he would suddenly become 100% compliant and happily go into it to get seperated because of Larson’s implied plans for John once they do become seperated. Larson’s going to “take” John somehow and Arthur wouldn’t want that, but he may weigh it right now in his mind that saving John would be easier in this case. 3. The threat against his own life, and therefore John’s. I don’t think his own safety is his priority but John’s is. Harlan, in the discord, reminded us that we are assuming he needs to be alive for the machine to work, but we don’t know that. Arthur could be killed and Larson may be able to extract John from his corpse still. He could also end up being seriously wounded if not killed, given the Butcher’s presence here. If Arthur isn’t really needed for anything beyond the extraction then it may not matter what state he’s in, and if he ends up being wounded beforehand, he may have a harder time coming up with something more to do or prepare himself to try and fight against the machine.

Fisher

On the point of not wanting John to feel betrayed by Arthur if Arthur decides to go willingly because it will affect him negatively moving forward if he feels like Arthur’s giving HIM up: In the grand scheme of things that would be capable of fully rattling John in this moment, I think that feeling betrayed by Arthur, for chosing to step willingly into this machine while he’s under the threat of violence to either himself or to their ally, is far lesser than his fear of what will happen to him and Arthur if he isn’t able to fulfill Kayne’s deal. On his list of priorities to feel upset about, I think that’s very much in first place. Moreover, how much better is John going to feel if Arthur instead chooses to resist and then ends up hurt and gets Noel killed? I don’t think the fact that Arthur tried to “go down swinging” make a significant difference at all in John’s feelings if the cost of resisting ends up with he and Noel both getting shot. What feelings he may have of gratitude over Arthur not wanting to give up on him would be almost certainly outweighed by the horror of the consequences. I don’t see how Arthur getting hurt/killed - because as Harlan reminded us, there’s no telling if Arthur needs to be alive for this, and if that’s the case there’s nothing stopping the Butcher from shooting him in the head the second he tries to resist - and Noel being killed for HIS sake, all because Arthur doesn’t want to “give up” on John, would make John feel anything less than anguished. Significantly more anguished, in my opinion, than him feeling betrayed over Arthur chosing to go willingly under a direct threat to his and Noel’s lives to try and save either of them from being immediately killed. If his percieved betrayal by Arthur in this moment outweighs his fear for Arthur’s safety, then I’m sorry, even as a part-time John stan, I have to label that as *supremely* fucking selfish, and most importantly, really fucking *stupid* of him to make his primary concern right now.

Alexi

"arthur maybe doesnt need to be alive for it to work" the implications of that are too much. john will still be there? in arthurs lifeless corpse? will he have any mobility or will he just be trapped i think this was brought up in season 1 but since then the assumption has been if one of them dies they both go

Lambda
>>127906047

That's just it, an assumption. Harlan pretty much told us in Discord we were assuming Arthur needs to be alive.

Lambda

Go willingly. We would buy time for Arthur and Noel, maybe get Larson to drop his guard, maybe get more info, and have a second to think before their brains get blown out. The wording implies to me we're going in the machine anyway, but it's whether we're alive or dead, or whether we have our one other ally in the room alive or dead. Arthur can't worm his way out of death every time, and we shouldn't be flippant with his life.

Madi

This is so so difficult I only see resisting leading to Arthur’s immediate death. I first chose to resist but after reading what’s already been reiterated here, Arthur doesn’t have to be alive to be put into this machine, they could very easily and quickly kill him if we resist. But I also don’t think that’s very fantastic or fun writing for that path, so maybe we should go down swinging at least, maybe it’ll inspire John to continue to fight after he gets yanked outta Arthur anyway AAAAAAA

Fisher

My first gut reaction was to resist, I literally had a moment going “NO WAY WE CAN’T GIVE JOHN UP!” But then I thought about it and I realized that was my emotions talking. Arthur reiterated to Noel the importance of keeping a calm, clear head, and in his words: “We can’t afford to be playing Wild West this far in.” If Arthur tries to resist this, Noel will be killed. Arthur would not want Noel to be killed. Harlan brought up in the discord something I think is important to share: “If it’s easy to have a gun pointed at your bestie and decide not to comply, I don’t think you’re really reading the situation. Many, MANY people have talked about who walks away from this alive… have you considered what comply vs non compliance may actually COST.”

Oakland

“Go down swinging, you’ll still go down.” we cannot make a choice on speculation. what we know for sure is this: -arthur is going to have to get in the machine either way -he does not necessarily need to be alive for this -noel will be most likely be killed if we resist. that being said, the safest possible thing we could do right now is go willingly. we are outnumbered, there is a skilled murderer and a literal (albeit weakened) god against us. we’re not winning any fights we pick.

JustaLoon

I think it's curious that many people assume Noel is going to come out of this alive if we go willingly. I mean more likely than not, sure, but what is stopping The Butcher from taking a shot the moment after Arthur comes out the other end of the machine? No formal deal was brokered with Larson. Nothing binding. I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if Larson order Butcher to kill Noel just to taunt Arthur for messing with him as much as he did. Or he could just be honest with Noel and sic him on Arthur for not revealing who John actually was. Either way, I think we will be losing Noel in this interaction one way or another.

Nicky
>>127909876

However likely that may be, there is no guarantee either way

JustaLoon
>>127909876

ik it's just strange that most people are saying we are doing this to save Noel, when that wasn't mentioned at all by Larson. Nothing like "And you and your little detective friend get to go home." We get jack.

Fisher
>>127909876

I think it will save Noel from being shot IMMEDIATELY, and I don’t think that there’s absolutely nothing Noel could do to help Arthur out of this, but he needs to remain alive for that. I think that it’s pretty obvious the Butcher will kill him if Arthur starts resisting. Even if Noel ends up dead because Arthur complies anyways, there’s more room for Noel to actually affect the situation if he remains alive for just a little longer than if he beefs it immediately.

Fisher
>>127909876

I also strongly believe that even if we’re so certain Noel is going to die anyways, which I am, ARTHUR wouldn’t want to believe that. He’d naturally want to save him from being killed because of him. Arthur’s going to blame himself hardcore if he tries to resist and Noel is killed for it, going willingly to at least TRY and save his life is an incredibly Arthur thing to do in my opinion.

SeerOfTime
>>127907677

You perfectly encapsulated my current mindset. I put go willingly (for now), but I am SO conflicted. My heart wants the boys to go down swinging, but my brain says Arthur and Noel could be killed instantly if they so much as step a toe out of line. Just. Gaaaaahshdbdhdghddbh

SeerOfTime

I have a feeling this is going to be a tight poll. I am sweating.

Queen

if you are spiteful and want to make this less satisfying larson and/or the butcher: consider how pissy they'll be if arthur complies and they don't have a further excuse to hurt him or his loved ones :)

Brisk

On the argument for willing, I think Arthur might try to self comfort by talking himself into thinking this is for the best And willing doesn't mean wanting. I'd be willing to eat mold to save someone else but it doesn't mean I want to If willing wins we seriously need to accept Arthur might fully let John go

aCrawlingChaos

the wording of the poll implies we're going either way. the choice we are making is wether or not arthur complies with the ritual in mindset. (wether that be convincing himself it will save john, or actually agreeing with separating from him.) because arthur has been able to resist rituals with this goal before, if he does not go willingly, he might be able to fight back and stop it. if he does go willingly, there may not be anything standing between john and larson's plan. additionally, the vizer told them the machine was for larson and yellow. how could that work if the entity in question was going to go straight to larson? there's more than likely some sort of third holding thing that john would go to if he was separated.

Amy

So if we tie it does Kayne show up?

aCrawlingChaos
>>127929738

take this with a grain of salt though LMAO, i have equally positive and negative opinions on both options and have argued for both

manderpantz

originally at the end of the last episode, i said not to go quietly...emotions were high and larson possibly having john for ANY length of time is horrible AF to think about...but i've thought about it and read the comments and now, with a cooler head, i agree that we probably should go willingly. as it has been pointed out by many people, it's not just Arthur's life, but also John's and Noels. Arthur resisting could lead to very bad things for all of them...this is not a clear cut choice, both have heavy consequences.

Nicky
>>127930401

If we tied Arthur falls on the machine, it explodes, the ruckus is enough to wake Azathoth through mental connection to the Mask of Temperance, ALL UNIVERSES COME TO AN END, Malevolent shifts to become a “day-in-the-life” sitcom about the outer gods /j

Dizzy-Day

I'm so excited!! Either option is brilliant!

Scottie

If willingly wins I hope Arthur takes Johns hand in his and then something epic happens. If unwilling wins I hope Arthur kicks some butt. It's gonna be awesome no matter what.

Dipity
>>127937399

Same here! I'm so excited for whatever comes next, this finale is blowing me away

Danii

Do not go gentle into that good night. Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Fisher
>>127957478

This isn’t raging against the dying light, this is Arthur avoiding being shot in the head!

Fisher

It is neither smart NOR BRAVE of Arthur to decide to try and fight back even though he sees Noel has a gun to his head and that gun could very easily turn on himself! There’s no way for Arthur to fight his way out of this. If he goes willingly he will throw Larson off his groove - Larson EXPECTS Arthur to fight, that’s why he’s doing all of this song and dance so he can punish Arthur just like when he tore off his ear. This would actually be making Larson look like a damn idiot. Vote to go willingly and make him feel cringe in front of his cult friends, avoid violence and death for Arthur and Noel, and have the space to keep as calm a head as possible.

Lambda
>>127957478

Yeah the ideal is we don't have to go into that good night at all lmao

Brisk

This mirrors the choice we made last time this question was asked. Are we willing to let John go. More than that are we willing to hand him over. Resisting the machine could mean trying to hold onto John during the ritual. Arthur is smart and I don't see him trying to fist fight the butcher surrounded by people when he was so careful around him before.

Dipity

crossposting my crosspost from discord regarding my vote for Unwilling: Memeing on murder and violence and killing are only a small part of the equation for me. Genuinely speaking, I don’t believe that resisting will keep us out of the machine, but I do believe that we can control the context through which we enter it. It is entirely possible to be unwilling and level-headed at the same time, and the text of the poll doesn’t say “fight” or “resist”, it just says “unwilling”. I don’t think being unwilling to play into Larson’s plan is rash, because we don’t know necessarily what that will look like, and because Arthur has already thought about what he would do if he was caught, extensively and textually. (This isn't a guarantee, arthur could also go ham but it's not Guaranteed to be a violent resistance by any means) There’s a meta layer, especially in this episode, of giving things up Willingly, what with the offering box out front, and I don’t like the implications of offering ourselves up willingly with that context either. I’m reminded heavily of the vote to keep the stone or give it to Oscar, where the core of the vote was closer to “do you give up yet?” than asking what we Physically wanted to do. I don’t want to bank on the slim hope that something else might get in the way of the machine working later, or that we'll have a second chance to resist, when the question could be “do you accept losing john” I don't know how much collateral damage there will be because I don't know what "unwilling" will look like. It could be a fight, it could be Arthur saying "no", it could be utter carnage. Noel could die. Arthur could get all his legs and arms and ribs broken. Larson could try to Yellow them. Or it could be as low-key as arthur getting decked and dragged in. I can live with that because right now I'm far more concerned about the implications of willingly giving in to a cult that has a demonstrated interest in people giving up precious things willingly.

Liz

Since fish requested that I share my long arguments here: I understand the impulse to rage against the dying of the light here, I really do. However, and I ask this sincerely, how do people who are voting for unwilling think this is going to go, if we project this situation forward, logically. This is what we know: Arthur has just spent a good portion of this last chapter asking John and Noel to keep their wits about them and to not make rash decisions. We know that Arthur cares deeply about not getting bystanders killed. That's why he surrendered to the Butcher back in the apartment building and why we made a deal with Scratch in order to have even the slightest hope of saving Daniel and Oscar. We also know that we're surrounded by all or most of the Order membership, by Larson with access to Yelllow's power to compel people to suicidal madness, and by the Butcher (who also has Noel at gunpoint). What do you think the outcome of saying "absolutely not" is going to be? How much collateral damage do you think is going to occur? And are you sure you want to be responsible for it?

Liz

Regarding giving up on Noel and assuming he's dead regardless of our choices. I don't think I've ever seen Arthur treat anyone's life as disposable. We tried to protect Percy by not using the people on the train as meat shields, we took a deal from Scratch to protect Daniel and Oscar, Arthur let himself be caught by Collins to protect the good samaritan that helped bandage his wounds, and we endangered ourselves with Scratch's stone to keep Oscar alive and unpossessed. Do we want to repay Noel's trust in us by being the first person we intentionally sacrifice for John's sake? Not just his memory, but his life?

Megs

I am TERRIFIED at how close this race is. I don’t want to do it, but I will change my vote if it means avoiding a tie

devotedwretch

john is at such a vulnerable point—if we don’t fight to keep him with us what will this say to him? what will it do to arthur and john’s relationship? and what will it imply in a show that focuses so much on hope and endurance and the triumph of the human spirit ??

Oakland

i am begging yall PLEASE we CANNOT win this fight no matter what we do, they have guns to our heads and it may seem easy to say “fuck no i’m not going to listen to you” but they will kill noel and arthur if need be. Even if they don’t kill us they can still torture us into compliance. No matter what we do we are going to lose; if it was a numbers game alone we would lose we’re against half a dozen cultists and a literal god. I do not like it but it’s damage control

Dani Ruggeri

They got us, we are surrounded, at gunpoint, and even they got a bug on us (we can't even talk with John without them knowing exactly what he's saying). Arthur is fierce, but also smart and versatile. I flipped two times yesterday in my head but at this point would say: lets avoid a bucket of bullets and trust the next choice to give opportunity. Willingly, even though it sounds less badass, is my vote. Wow, I can't believe it, I'm voting to go willingly lol.

Adam Frey

I vote to go willingly but it won't let me vote for some reason 😕

Isi
>>127958762

"Own Larson by doing exactly what he says" is, uh, a take I guess.

K.M.

Me, screaming as loud as I can. The poll, unresponsive to my pleas.

Lambda
>>127957478

We don't know if he needs Arthur alive to take what he wants

Fisher

to those who are worried about if Arthur going willingly into it will mean he’ll be willing to let go of John, and what will happen after the machine seperates them - which we don’t know will happen at all, there’s two entire chapters of the finale left - i would urge to not think so far ahead of ourselves. what we can, i think, more reasonably assume given the context clues (Noel tried to reach for his gun to fight back and the Butcher instantly held his to his temple in a direct display of a threat against resisting, which Arthur is fully aware of and has acknowledged) is that if Arthur choses to try and do anything like attempt to talk his way out of this, physically resist, do anything that Larson clearly expects him to do based on what he knows about Arthur, Noel will be killed as the direct cause of Arthur’s actions. that is partially the threat that the Butcher is making to Arthur, here, and he would have no real reason to not follow through on it. i think that if we were going to be given a vote about Arthur’s mind state going into the machine and if he’s going to try and resist it’s effects or not, that would be the vote for once he’s already IN the machine and the process has already begun, so we know more what to expect of what it entails. this vote isn’t the end.

Fisher

if we chose to go willingly i am chosing to put faith in the idea that Arthur won’t just get into the machine, the machine will start up, and *because* Arthur decided to willingly step into the machine (due to his awareness of a direct and immediate threat to end Noel’s life and risk his own if he does not comply) he will then not do ANYTHING to try and affect the situation and will instead be totally “willing to let John go” - if that’s even something he needs to BE willing to do for this machine to work because again, while that may have been part of why the King couldn’t seperate them in episode 12, this is a *machine* and not the King himself. and if Arthur’s intent is TRULY such a necessary part for this to work that implies his “willingness” mustn’t be negated by the fact he isn’t TRULY doing this of his own accord here - he’s being threatened into doing it! he is being coerced! i don’t see why we wouldn’t get a vote about how to respond to however the machine actually does the seperation process.

Nicky

FYI - Harlan confirmed on Discord that the poll will be open until Monday 7am EST, so while we don’t want a tie, there’s plenty of time, so try not to get overly stressed, and please don’t feel the need to have your vote sitting on the side you don’t want just to avoid a tie yet. Voting against your actual choice to avoid a tie can wait for Sunday

Oakland

we are fucked and going into that machine no matter what we do we should not make the situation worse by fighting cultists, the butcher and the KIY himself (albeit a lesser version of him)

sunny

vote go willing ! we need noel to Not Die . because im sure we are going in that machine no matter what we do. it’s all about reducing the harm thats done

aaaah! -stro

“go willingly” doesn’t imply that arthur is giving john up. it means we are stopping an unnecessary death (noel) from taking place. When arthur decided to stop hiding from the butcher a few episodes back, he wasn’t agreeing to die - he was stopping the butcher from killing more innocent people. Arthur knew the risks at the time but did it anyways, because that’s the type of person he is. We’re fucked either way tbh but i think we can atleast save noel

K.M.

We are fucked either way - but not as fucked as if we tie!

Danii

Why do folks think a guy who murdered his own kids is going to play fair? Like. 'go willingly' won't necessarily save anyone. It means we just delay it until we're locked into a machine and have to watch it helpless. Fighting at least gives the chance of fate or chance or stalling. They shoot Arthur and they might lose John. They shoot Noel and they lose the only potential control on Arthur. If they use either 'card' in their hands, they endanger their goals.

Queen
>>128020788

Personally I don't think it's going to 'save' anyone necessarily- but I do think we could get something out of a further exchange. Maybe Larson will monologue and reveal something, maybe Noel will react impulsively if we don't and we'll learn something new about him, or the Butcher, maybe we'll get to hear John say something significant and pressing-- maybe he'll call out for Kayne. Maybe he'll take control of Arthur's arm and do something of HIS own volition. By resisitng, I think it's safe to say we will suffer not only physically, but be punished with a potential lack of more information. I don't trust Larson, I trust the bond between John and Arthur and I think proving that by walking willingly into that thing without flinching is better proof than throwing a tantrum while there's so much other stuff at stake. The most vulnerable thing in the room is not John or Arthur, they should know that, and I think they should prove that they have confidence and strength now that they did not when they were last given a similar choice.

Fisher
>>128020788

Why do you think that fighting will give Arthur or Noel any higher significant chance of survival? In this situation where it seems that the Butcher is directly threatening Arthur with Noel’s life if he attempts to get away, I think there’s a naturally higher chance that complying will ensure that Noel doesn’t immediately die within the next few seconds. They don’t lose the only mode of control if Noel is dead - the Butcher is here with a gun and he could easily shoot Arthur in the leg if he attempts to get away, which would leave him going into the machine not in top shape. Coupled with the fact that there is at least eight other cultists in the room right now who could more that easily overpower Arthur if he resists just going on a sheer numbers advantage, I think it’s clear that Larson could EASILY afford to kill Noel and not lose any “control” over Arthur here.

HakureiRyuu
>>127962635

this. I see this vote as more akin to introducing the entity to noel as John or as kiy (or at least what the vote seemed like at the time). this isn't a matter of being fighty or not, it's about whether Arthur wants John out of his head badly enough to sacrifice him. and the answer is resoundingly no.

saturniines

As someone who was raring to go out in a blaze of glory initially, we should vote “Go Willingly”. 1. There is heavy implication there will be physical violence in response to Arthur not complying, and the Butcher currently has a gun pointed directly at Noel’s head. It’s not a leap to say he could end up seriously injured or killed should we try to resist. 2. What will fighting accomplish? We are completely surrounded and outnumbered by cultists and people who won’t hesitate to kill us. Additionally, for those not active in the discord server, Harlan has cast doubt on the assumption that Arthur even needs to be alive for the machine to function. This isn’t a death-before-defeat, “we can meet in the Dark World” situation; John is likely going to be taken either way. This is damage control. 3. This feels in character for Arthur. Of course he doesn’t want to give up John to Larson, and I think if it was just about him he definitely would fight until his last breath. But it isn’t. Noel is also at risk, and historically Arthur has given himself up if it meant not bringing harm to others. The Butcher knows this, which is likely why he’s threatening Noel in the first place. 4. ‘Go Willingly’ may give us a little more time, the situation could develop and there may be other opportunities to throw a wrench in Larson’s plans. Right now, in the present, there’s very little we can actually do without putting ourselves or our allies in danger, making compliance the safer option for the moment. We don’t know how the machine will work, we don’t know what will happen after. We have to work off of what we do know, right now.

saturniines
>>127962635

I’m not convinced by the idea that this requires will to work, or that that is what’s being asked of us by this poll, for a few reasons: 1. it has been implied by harlan in the discord that the machine may not even need arthur alive to work, and that we are making that assumption. I think that casts serious doubt on the idea that the participant’s active will has a role in its ability to function. 2. The subtext of the scene is making the implicit threat of violence. While it is true that choosing ‘Don’t Go Willingly’ may not be outright physical resistance, that seems to be what it’s pointing towards, or at least what arthur will be met with if he tries anything tricky. 3. assuming that the “unwilling” option will be a level-headed response and not be met with violence or death of us or our allies is taking an unnecessary risk. and if we are talking about how arthur has given consideration into what he would do if he were caught by Larson, that really doesn’t bode well, as he said he would rather die than be taken. though notably, this was in a context where it was only him and john trapped in that basement. Arthur has shown multiple times this season that he will surrender/choose a worse option for himself if it means preventing someone else from being killed or hurt because of him, and that is what we’re being threatened with right now. 4. I think if this were purely a mental thing, it would be more obvious from the framing of the situation/the presentation of the choices. I don’t think harlan would have everyone arguing over whether or not we should go down swinging for days only to be like “actually, it was really about your willingness to give up john, not your willingness to comply, have fun dealing with that!” and im fairly sure he’s even encouraged people to not look at this vote from purely an angle of “arthur’s integrity” or willingness to give up john, and to “consider what Comply vs. non compliance actually may cost.” if we are truly operating in the wrong framing by believing that this choice is about compliance vs. noncompliance and not a question of arthur’s literal will, I think that would have been made clear so as to not mislead the majority of voters.

Thea Bell

RAGE, RAGE AGAINST THE DYING OF THE LIGHT shocked to see that the voices are leaning towards “don’t resist.” What would the implications of that be for John? He’s been very clear that he does NOT want this, and I doubt that this is what Kayne wanted Arthur here for. Maybe…but probably not. Then again, I’m almost always in the minority when it comes to voting, so I guess I’m not that surprised. Maybe a little disappointed, though.

K.M.

Meds kicked in vote willingly!

Lambda
>>128051347

I can't speak for everyone, but for me, I'm trusting he can recognize that there's a gun to Noel's head and Arthur is acting under duress. I also trust that even though Arthur went willingly back in Part 12, just like back then, John can hold his own.

Brisk

I think I was overcomplicating the decision before, there have been votes in the past where we can just mess up and unintentionally get someone else killed and that's all it is. If the vote to dig the worms out of Oscar won he'd simply be dead. Unless we're more positive that resistance could give us some benefit it's not worth gambling on

CJ

I'm not willingly doing a damn thing Larson says. John doesn't want this. Resist!

Jess

I've noticed a few contradictions, details, and big picture things. I'm not entirely sure what to do with them, but they seem relevant. (1) The vizier has no free will. He serves the gods directly. So, why would he be intimidated or impressed by a fragment of the King in Yellow? And how could the cult leave the path set by its patron god(s), if it was being led by someone directly in their thrall? (2) Larson doesn't say that he's planning to save Yellow and John from fading by returning them to the King immediately. He's planning to keep them both and return them when he sees fit. This doesn't make a lot of sense if they're in immediate danger of fading. (3) This situation is the direct result of both Arthur and John's deals with Kayne. John brought Arthur to the cult for Kayne. But, Larson wouldn't have been able to take over and get the cult working toward his goals without Yellow. And Arthur's deal brought Yellow into the world; primed him to hate Arthur, John, and humanity; and brought Yellow into Larson's orbit. Without both deals, this doesn't happen. (4) It's strange to have unfaceted stones in a chandelier. It's extremely strange to have unfaceted stones that reflect light at the level of faceted stones. Reflecting more light is the whole point of facets. We're looking for an extremely strange stone, so it seems worth noting. (6) The last time a cult tried to separate Arthur and John, the upshot wasn't an actual separation, whatever the King may have wanted. They were transported across dimensions. (7) In summary, I think there's more going on here than we see and that much of what's happening here isn't what it looks like. I don't want to assume that everything we're hearing is the truth.

Nicky
>>128059757

To point one, the Mask seems to be new thing for vizier (the blood on his face from eyes and ears) so I suspect that occurred in the room he and Larson first came to balcony from earlier in the day. It seems to obey John and likely Yellow, and I think it’s because, even as fragments, they are of the “tier” of being it is subject to For two, I agree Larson has some ulterior motives for John, Arthur, and likely Yellow. Exactly what Yellow is remains unclear (fragments of John, additional fragment of KIY, the rest of KIY). For six, the original goal was for KIY in the dreamlands to merge with John and fully possess Arthur in The Human world. They only got pulled into the dreamlands through the portal instead instead because John and Arthur resisted

Queen

remember how confident i was when i said anything in these comments. remember that? i have no idea how i'm voting anymore. past me was a fool.

Isi

Let's go resistance! You know in your heart it's the right move. To me there's nothing Larson can do or say right now that would justify Arthur letting this happen.

Broth Mirepoix
>>128072631

it's funny bc this was one of the few ones i knew how i was gonna vote after the chapter played, i voted when the poll came out, and only looked a cpl days later to see how it went and was shocked lol

Dizzy-Day

I'm sticking with fighting! There's nothing Arthur can do, not do, or say to protect Noel, John, or himself. So let's give them HELL!!

S

Rage rage against the dying of the light 👊 ✨✨

DuckDuckDuck

I've been checking this poll on and off for the past couple of days for funsies and I have to say, it's been a pretty wild time all throughout. Thanks everyone!

K.M.

I’m going to look back on this vote and have no idea what I’d chosen

Laura A Moore

Damn I really chose one of the best weeks to become a Patron, huh XD

Dipity
>>128131323

You really did! Things are.... well they're always wild but usually not THIS wild

SeerOfTime

TIME TO CHANGE VOTES, BABY. IT'S GETTING WILD--

Teakettle

Just a very quick comment for my own future personal reference that I did not flip and I am still extremely convinced that going willingly is the right thing to do to buy ourselves a few minutes of time and trying to avoid Noel getting shot in the face.

K.M.
>>128124189

You gotta know I’ve left like TEN LOL every one of them scared, confused, and a different choice 😂

Nicky
>>128137514

Respect. I’m still not convinced Noel will be insta shot at the first sign of resitance

Teakettle
>>128137514

Maybe not but I really don't think it's worth taking the risk for the sake of saving a bit of pride.

Nicky
>>128137514

I don’t think it’s strictly a saving pride thing, and voting in an effort to protect Noel here feels similar to the “leave the stone with Oscar because otherwise Arthur is going to biff it and get Scratched immediately”

Nicky
>>128137514

And I’m not trying to convince you to switch, I’m just wanting to clarify some points about the opposition

Broth Mirepoix

there's still time to change our minds again 😜

Choco-chi

I love my husband

faeyoli

Ugh, my gut reaction is "over my dead body" Absolutely not giving up John to Larson & Yellow. Only thing giving me pause is whether going willingly would buy us time to figure out a way to escape. Gods, can't John command them just like Yellow can? ;A;

Courtney Wathne

I'm shocked by the huge change in votes here. Honestly, I think our love for John is gonna get us killed, or others who could have benefited us later. Don't get me wrong, John and his needs are important...but I'm seriously anxious about the majority choice here.

Nicky
>>128192767

There’s more to it than John and no certainty that either choice is more sure to get Noel or anyone immediately killed or temporarily more safe

Queen
>>128192767

A lot of discussion takes place between a large group of patrons on the patreon discord, there is tons of rationale behind both types of votes there! I didn't see anyone out of the 40+ people there saying their Resist vote was being made primarily because of John.

Courtney Wathne
>>128192767

I unfortunately suffer from severe "conflict phobia". So I rarely even get on the discord:( But I really hope this ends well for our boys. And I want Noel safe after the torture he's already been through!

Queen
>>128192767

Totally understandable- conflict, especially in groups, can be stressful, I get you. We're all rooting for Arthur, John, and Noel! Excited to share the ride with you, friend!

Positive

My Gods, how did you guys SURVIVE this poll