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S8E03, The Long Night (Patreon)

Published:
2019-04-29 05:34:49
Edited:
2020-04-27 21:58:28
Imported:
2026-06
Tags:

Content

What did you think of S8E03, The Long Night?

Here's the Q&A livestream for Patrons: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOIKifAn0uM

Here's a playlist with all of the S8 livestreams:  https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLn6yDpEottdi4ezny3XOUy59gDfSOgKWV  

We're now working on the S8E03 Explained video 🙂

ASX

Files

Game of Thrones S8E03 Q&A discussion

We're holding live Q&A discussions right after each episode of GOT S8, at about 10:30pm ET Sunday. Patrons can watch past streams: https://www.patreon.com/AltShiftX/posts?tag=livestreams Subscribe: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCveZqqGewoyPiacooywP5Ig?sub_confirmation=1 Support on Patreon: http://bit.ly/ASXPatreon Twitter: http://bit.ly/ASXTwitter Merch: https://standard.tv/altshiftx Stream donations: https://streamlabs.com/altshiftx This is a review and discussion of GOT S8E03, using stills from the episode. This is fair use.

Comments

Paul Barry

Wow, as a battle episode, it was great. As a culmination of everything the books and show have built up for over 20 years...just completely bloody weird. I enjoyed the livestream, but sorry man, there’s no way NK is coming back. I spent a year expecting Stannis to return with some great twist, but there ain’t none. In the end, it wasn’t as silly as I’d feared, but it wasn’t anything like it was building to. The swirls and signs were fun to talk about, and they were a message, but they were nought to do with the ending. I have no bloody idea what will happen in the next 3 episodes, so who knows. I hope I’m wrong.

Maria Isabel Mendonça

What meant the moment when the Night King compliments the ravens warged by Bran? Right after that moment the wights made the bridge into Winterfell through the fire.

Alice Palmer

wishful thinking... Ghost went off to find Nymeria. How sweet would that be? Not going to happen. Just please no more doggie deaths.

Alice Palmer

Jon gave up on his friends to kill the Kight King kinda. Walked past Sam etc without helping them.

Louis Pisivin

I would say that 2 character arc are complete in a fitting way, Theon and Melisandre, the battle was really well shot, making us fear constantly for the main cast. Everything was almost perfect and I tend to forgive the stupid strategies and the few incoherences. Until the end. That ending is probably the biggest spit in the face of books readers. Don't fool yourself, there is no secret strategy or well thought explanation.

Kelly Theobald

So freaking good!!! (Spoilers) . . I can’t believe she just up and killed the damn Night King! The damn Night King!!! I’m bothered that it happened so early in the season—as Paul said above, with little payoff—and I’m left with a sense of, what was the point of the NK on this whole series? It seems like nothing will really change after this, and now it’s back to the usual Cersei bullshit plots. 🤷🏼‍♀️ But still, what a freaking way for him to go. It was SO. BADASS. The battle itself was great, even though I spent the majority of the time going, I can’t see what’s happening. Who was that? Which dragon is biting which dragon? Yeah, *very* visually confusing, but still really amazing. I also loved Lyanna’s death scene, Mel’s role in the battle (I should be mad about her suddenly insane fire powers, which only came out when the plot called for it, but it was so cool that I don’t care), the sheer feeling of hopelessness as the battle progressed, the Tyrion/Sansa moment, Dany’s vulnerability without Drogon, the dragon fight (I’m really happy that it wasn’t too over-the-top and I liked how viseryon just wreaked havoc in the castle), and of course the gorgeous, *gorgeous* music at the end. My few complaints: I wish the white walkers had a bigger role; they’re so badass, but they just strolled in at the end like whatever. I wish there had been an epic sword fight between Brienne and one of them. Furthermore, Bran was so fucking useless. The crypts were a huge disappointment. There weren’t any familiar dead Starks, and nothing happened! Not enough Brienne or Jaime. The battle was so long, and they are such important characters that I’m surprised they didn’t get more than a few check-ins. Jon was a damn chicken with his head cut off the whole time! There were so many weird logistical issues like, why do the wights bleed? Lmao. But really, it bugs me how they die like humans and not ice creatures. Six(?) characters died, but like...why didn’t more characters die? I should also mention that when Dany jumped off Drogon and things got REALLY bad, my sister was like, I bet they’re gonna pull a Twilight and the episode will end with Bran and Tyrion’s conversation from last episode and Bran saying, “and that’s how we shouldn’t do it.” 😂 Overall I loved it 😄

BrinkBees

I was wondering if all the dead in this episode will still be burned? Could burning the dead be a new Northern men tradition (maybe something they will adapt from the wildling's culture), because "the north remembers" and the long night will/could come again right?

Jenny Zina Tavares

If the blue eyes Melisandre referred to, she did say shut forever. I don't see anyway he's coming back. It'll be interesting to see if Bran's mark is gone.

Jenny Zina Tavares

My questions: 1. What good was there in saying there must always be a Stark in Winterfell. Did the time Ramsay held the castle negate that? 2. When, actually, was Sansa's and Tyrion's marriage dissolved. After she left King's Landing Cersei said she wanted her head. Why are we expected to believe she would have allowed her to live and dissolved the marriage so she could marry Ramsay? 3. What was the significance of the horn found with the dragon glass north of the wall? 4. Who the hell is Light Bringer? 5. Other than being cool, how does Arya killing the NK fulfill any prophesy? And how did she get through the ring of White Watchers & wights to get to the NK? 6. Isn't there supposed to be magic in the Winterfell crypts? And how were the wights breaking through the walls if it's underground? 7. How did some of the main characters survive when at some point or another they were surrounded wights? 8. Was Beric's great purpose just to save Arya? I thought he'd kiss a dead character and give his life for the deed...like Ser Jorah. I actually thought there would be a renegotiation of the pact. OK, I'll stop now. Thank you for reading...

Erik

I liked the episode, but they sure did belabor the poetic, last stand symphonic, scenes. It was really too much. I care about the characters but watching their last stand scenes over, and over, and over came off as cheesy when I feel GRRM would have just killed off a couple more of the good guys. Jon running in front of the undead dragon just to belt out a rebel yell was just silly.

Kazuhiro Sato

The last hope is Bran saying something about WW, Night King and Prophecies

James

Just putting it out there: is there anything that specifically says the prophecies have to involve the white walkers and the night king? maybe they could just be talking in metaphors about greater peace in westeros and balance in the force etc.

James

PS I know nothing.

j mccarthy

like you I think the night king will return but correct me if i'm wrong isn't a little poetic how jennys song ties in with arya and the wood witch/ ghost of high heart in the books she tells arya to " begone from here" and that she has a "dark heart" and Arya is the one to end it all. Eventhough I didn't think this is how it should or even will end I found it kind of neat

Harry Macro

Miguel Sapochnik is directing episode 5 so there's bound to be another big battle in that episode

Lethewards Sunk

ASX, your insistence that the Night King must be coming back reminds me of me the morning after the Brexit referendum.

Jonas Hirshland

Really surprised that the fact that the Night King (Death) didn't directly kill more main characters or a single Stark. Walder Frey more OP than NK.

Nat Saturley

That ending was so underwhelming but what can i expect from this show,these past two seasons GoT has lost its fear factor which made it stood out, the sheer lack of deaths of the main cast in this episode was unbelievable, the ending just belittled the biggest threat of the series.Having said this if youre right alt shift x (in which i very much hope you are) and the NK does come back it would be a great twist but i just cant see it happening. For me Game of Thrones is swiftly becoming a mediocre fantasy show with a big budget focussing to much on casual fan service, thus being exemplified by giving arya the glory rather than someone more connected to that plot line, at the very least i think i would of been fitting to see arya die with the king all that still seems unsatisfactory to me.

Lu Garcia

"Hey, the NK has a glowing critical hit thing on his bunghole." Got me laughing there.

Lux Pro

It was a great technical achievement. But the writing really was a spit in the face to book readers and theory crafters. They threw away all the prophecies and story building for shock value, and it was anticlimactic because of it. I gave D&D a pass on Beyond the Wall, but the writing was really bad here. No Azor Ahai, stupid battle strategy, too many plot armored characters, Bran is useless, not even showing HOW Arya did that- could have had her jump out of the tree or something. Idk man, the episode had a few redeeming things but I’ve finally lost confidence in D&D’s writing.

Lisa C Corcoran

I rewatched Episode 3 and noticed something at the end. Right before Arya strikes, they show a strong wind blowing through a White Walker's hair. Do you think this could be a future Bran warging into the past to influence this moment (like Tower of Joy and Jon going back to find Ghost)? If it is to be believed that Arya snuck past all the wights and walkers, then she couldn't create such a wind. That looks like a choice to me, and one that means something.

Dean G

Upon watching the episode again, I clicked why Jon exposed himself the undead dragon and screamed. He wasn't screaming per se, but was shouting Goooooo! Gooo! to Arya. He was distracting the dragon which was guarding the Godswood, so Arya could do her thing. First thought was a last grasp attempt to stab the dragon with long claw. Well played Jon Snow.

Dean G

Watch the preview for ep 4 . there are many huge pyres and the lead characters are about to light them.

ywecur

But then why did they even bring up Azor Ahai last season? It makes no sense. But then again it makes no sense that Mel would die if this wasn't actually over.

Dean G

yes, with all those WW guarding there, a little 4th Dimensional help sure would have been handy to distract the WW for that split second. I like this theory.

Rikke Holmberg

All in all I was well entertained and held my breath for most of the episode. And there were definite goosebumps moments. But the way D&D have decided to turn ASOIAF into "The adventures of Maisie" just baffles me. I absolutely bought your idea of NK coming back, but after having watched all the interviews and behind the scenes stuff, I don't think so. They genuinely think they made a great choice doing it this way. And it is so very obvious that making a cohenrent story make any kind of sense was the absolute least of their concerns. Maisie is the most interesting to watch, so fuck the booknerds. "How can we make Kit look cooler?", they ask - well, for starters give him an actual role to play preventing the apocalypse instead of having him clinging to a dragon looking for his girlfriend in a snowstorm for an hour. NK will not come back and Maisie will kill Cersei and the Mountain too. Calling it now.

Zara

Is Arya Stark Azor Ahai??????

Raph Leclaire

Narrative Dissonance and incoherent "Hollywood-like" clichés are D&D's idea of the unpredictable semi-realism themed narrative symphony that made George RR Martin's series such a success.

Nat Saturley

the prophecies include the end to the 'long night'

Lisa C Corcoran

They would need to do a lot of explaining to make that fit. And they've barely addressed all the aspects of the prophecy that makeup Azor Ahai. I'm with ASX - either the Night King isn't yet vanquished fully, or this is simply D&D giving the show a different ending so the books can still be a surprise.

Donna

It’s actually quintessential George RR Martin to build up and then subvert expectations. It makes most sense that Jon or Dany are expected to kill NK. And then he’s killed by the b story line assassin who is been training for seasons to be the ultimate killer. Who has seen the many faces of death. NK is the embodiment of death. Jon wasn’t brought back to kill the NK. He was brought back to be the king. That’s been foreshadowed since the beginning.

Kenny Arnold

90% of the episode I loved... just super disappointed with the end. NK goes down to easily. The long night was quite short, and Arya is the one to do it?? In my opinion, there was too much build up of the white walkers being "the true enemy", & "the only enemy that matters" to have them go down in just one episode. I'll reserve judgement because I'm holding onto hope that D&D will pull something out in the next couple episodes, but if it stays like this I will be disappointed.

WarmSeoulLights

I realise that television, like any art form, is subject to personal preferences and everybody has their own opinion on writing and the overall story. And all personal opinions aside, the most overwhelming feeling I have is this... for the first time ever, I'm not anxiously anticipating the next week's episode. I used to wake up at 3:30am to watch this show but definitely don't have the same thrilling excitement to do that anymore. It's true that anything can happen in the last three episodes and of course I'm curious, however, after the climax last week, I just feel weirdly dispassionate. We've had poorly written episodes in the past, things that I didn't personally like, story arcs that definitely did not go the way I wanted them to go... yet I always remained fascinated by the intricacy and the ingenuity of this story. Can't change the TV show so no point in bitching about it but I'd lie if I said I will still have the same butterflies in my stomach when the HBO logo comes on next week.

Kellan

I'm right there with you Rikke, amazing episode but so much I wish had been done differently. I was upset they kept showing characters about to die just to be saved, or cut away from, and the Arya part was the cherry on top.

Nick K

Super disappointed. To the bottom of my heart. =( Sorry to say but they ruined the show. How could have they come up with THIS as a culmination of 7 seasons worth of build-up of an unstoppable, ancient, ultimate, mysterious, silent, pure evil? All the books, Azor Ahai prophecy, lord of Light and Mel and other red priests, long night, winter. All down the sewer with one ninja move. Arya didn't belong, that was not her moment! That was Bran's solo! He should have (MUST have) done something freaking unbelievable and unexpected, I dunno, turn them both into a tree, teleport them back to the tree where NK was created, get back in time and undo him, freaking join him - something! Jon was useless, Dany was useless, Bran's a joke (Theon, thank you, go die). And they kept almost all the characters! And BOTH dragons. I mean cmon. Did GRRM even read this? Is he ok with it? I don't buy that that was his idea the whole time.. So disappointed. I used to wait for each episode SO MUCH. Not anymore. Who cares if Jon or Dany get the stupid throne? Cersei will most likely just blow it all up anyways. No more intrigue.

Nick K

They should have given her a cape and a mask. PG-13 all the way. Just dumb. Sorry =( A really sad fan here.

Kazuhiro Sato

I think this episode is a message at meta-level: The reality. In imagination, you can create storylines that are logical, coherent, historical, and consistent. You need to take into consideration geographical distances to travel and ponder decisions at multi-level. There is no Deus ex machina to bend the storylines nor plot armours for series of reckless behaviours such as screaming at a dragon blazing a fire in front. Valar morghulis to all characters. Valar dohaeris for their appropriate roles they have been played. BUT IN REALITY, if directors think "but.. it just didn't seem right to us for this moment", every logics that had been based on and histories that had made sense will be changed. They don't need reasons if mediocre fantasies excite most people. No one cares a man who is resurrected from several stabbings or a man who can sprint thousands miles on a heavy snow on foot; no wonder Arya jumped from nowhere if she had a sex with such a guy; she got such a good trainings for her legs. Reality is bounded by money and time. Let's make simple structures of good vs evil on screen. No moral complexity and anti-war themes because we used it as a bookmark. That's the reality, where opportunism trumps logic.

Christine B

Basically, the NK got Littlefingered. Everyone was in a bar cheering last season when this happened, but I was upset because LF as a character was too important for such a menial death. Same with the NK. A lot of the episode was fan fodder. Arya is Azor Ahai? I liked that GRRM wanted you to see the complexity of characters, not just all good or all bad. Episode 7 trampled on all of that. The story was sacrificed for CGI (who needed that anti-climactic dragon fight in the sky above the cloud...Matrix much?) and to give the johnny-come-lately show fans what they wanted. The story should always be more important than a character. Needless to say, I am disappointed. I am thinking of not watching the remainder of the season, although it will be hard as I have invested so much time and energy into the show.

Christine B

Thank you, Alt Shift X. You made this series (especially seasons 5 - current) so much better with your videos. I hope you have even more success doing something else.

Justin Talia

I think this was just to demonstrate how she could get by the white walkers, i.e. stealthily and without being noticed.

Rikke Holmberg

Most likely Cersei versus everybody else

Justin Talia

I think we have to recall that they went past the source material about 2-3 years ago, which is apparently when they knew Arya would kill the NK. My expectations were lowered significantly a couple years back and I decided to enjoy the show as it's own separate story. The quality of the episodes definitely diminished overall after they passed the source material. I very much enjoyed this last episode, possibly the best of all the episodes since passing all the source material.

Justin Talia

This sounds about right, but what's strange is that GRRM said they'd have similar endings. I wonder how GRRM reacted to this last episode

Justin Talia

Interesting. Why a "b story line assassin"? How can you tell who is a "b story line" in the books when it's all POV?

Justin Talia

That's very interesting. I'm not looking forward to the next episode is much as I have for all previous episodes, but for me that's because I felt quite satisfied with this last episode, knowing it's loosely based on the source material compared to the first handful of seasons.

Justin Talia

I agree 1000%. The series became so much more excited when I started watching Alt Shift X years ago. Keep up the great work!

Justin Talia

Does anyone know how GRRM reacted to this episode?

Robert Elliott

Would have loved to see Bran warg Ghost and Nymeria to flank the White Walkers at the back with help from Nymeria’s pack. I got up to watch the show at 3am and was on the edge of my seat screaming and wincing. It was brilliant. Would love to have had JS more involved in the NK death but super stoked it was ultimately Arya.

Daniel Johnson

Can someone, anyone, tell me when the legend of Azor Ahai and the concept of the Prince who is Promised got folded into one big idea? Most fans have been taking it for granted that the PWIP will mirror the key events and symbolism of the AA myth but as far as I can tell there is no reason we should have ever conflated them. Is the only reason we’ve been combining the two because of a comment or two from Melisandre? If so, given her track record of botched deductions, doesn’t this make it an untrustworthy assumption?

Daniel Johnson

Also, just want to go on record here with a longstanding pet theory of mine that I’m still riding for: the stone dragon statues on dragonstone (which were created with magic spells) will be awakened into real dragons at some point!

Donna

Just figure of speech. But Martin has said that Jon and Dany were the two central characters. Arya is probably the closest to a third central character for Martin.

Shruthi R

An epic fail. Just goes to show how brilliant a writer Martin is and how his world and his characters can only be handled by him and no one else. Honestly speaking, most of the fan theories on the Internet are better thought out than whatever the show is putting out at this point. To say I'm disappointed would be an understatement. 😑

Rikke Holmberg

Pretty sure the third central character would be Tyrion

House of Crumbs

Did anyone else think that Sansa was about to kill herself in the crypts? I've only seen the episode once but I thought she had the dagger pointed towards her stomach before Tyrion intervened with the ultra-soulful gazing and hand-holding.

Donna

🙄 things will happen differently in the books. The journey to the end will be different. But the ending will be very much the same. Martin has already said so. Arya will have an essential role in defeating the others. Just important as Jon or Dany. And subverting expectations is totally Martin. All this prophecy, dreams, visions, aren’t to be interpreted literally. As a how to step by step way the series will end. They are allegorical, and can be interpreted and misinterpreted depending who is doing the reading. Some prophecies will seem to fit, others will not. It’s not even clear if Azor A’hai is the same as the prince that promised or not. Plus AA and TPTP are Essos myths. The last hero is from Westeros. Are these all the same person or different peop

Donna

people. We don’t know. It’s mythology. How much do use mythology to predict future events?

Lethewards Sunk

Both GRRM and D&D have given conflicting messages about whether the ending will be the same. The only thing that seems to be consistent is that there are several "beats" or "holy shit moments" that are the same in both books and show. I suspect the obfuscation is deliberate - if both parties clarified that the show is definitely going to end differently to the books, then D&D might lose a massive demographic of their audience who are sticking with this out of loyalty to the books - and they may have even got GRRM to agree not to be explicit until the end of the show. And if the show ends poorly, GRRM gets to say "Actually, the books will end differently", and ensure he's still got an audience. If he ever finishes writing them.

JoelMason77

I’m not trying to sound mean here but your whole “All down the drain with one ninja move”, is a little dramatic. There were a lot of things that led up to that moment that made it happen. Years of training with the faceless men, Dany and Jon fighting back the wight horde with Rhaegal and Drogon, Theon stalling the NK to give Arya more time to get there, and a few other things. I will agree that there are mistakes in this episode. It’s not perfect at all and I’m not trying to defend those mistakes. Just as a person who loves the show and loved this episode wanted to respond to what you had to say

Naughty

I just noticed something possibly mayor.. Why does Bran look at the Night King, then lets his eyes wander to his sword and then focuses back on the Night King.. who then returns a slight look of surprise at Bran? Is Bran communicating with the Night King that he has to use his sword to kill him but he's surprised Bran would ask that? Check it again for yourself here <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdcjiMQ7coA&feature=youtu.be&t=286" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdcjiMQ7coA&feature=youtu.be&t=286</a>

Lynn Short

So confusing! Thanks for linking the video. Also is Jon yelling 'Go'??? or 'No'? Hard to tell. But Bran looking at the place where the dagger inters the NK is really interesting.

Gabe Magic

There is a Azor Ahai theory that Arya might possibly be the "third head of the dragon" The books give more detail about the prophecy, that the "Prince That Was Promised" might actually be three separate people (a reference to how the Targaryen sigil is a three-headed dragon, Azor Ahai might be a trinity of people), acting together to stop the White Walkers and end the Long Night. It seems heavily implied that Jon Snow and Daenerys Targaryen are two of these - but the identity of the third person is still unclear, and heavily debated by fans. For all we really know, Arya might actually be revealed as this "third" person prophesied to also be the Prince. It is also heavily implied that the Azor Ahai needs to be of the bloodline of House Targaryen. This part might not be strictly true for all three "heads of the dragon", as the prophecy refers to being connected to a thing called the Song of Ice and Fire (literally the title of the entire book series), thereby having to do with "both" ice and fire, not just one. Arya being the "third head of the dragon" would even it out: One third would be full Targaryen (Daenerys), therefore full "fire". One third would be full Stark (Arya), therefore full "ice". And one third would be an equal mix of both Stark and Targaryen (Jon), therefore half of both "ice and fire". The two families represent "ice and fire" coming together, and Arya would balance out Daenerys with Jon being in the middle.

Nick K

I hear ya, but there have also been 7 seasons worth of build-up of this most important and only threat, this true enemy, this only war that matters, this unstoppable and mysterious enemy. Jon fought him twice and lost, ended up just staring at him. Dragons can't hurt him, but he can sure hurt them. He is death itself and nothing can stop him. He is the long (endless) night and end of all living. Don't you think that NK, his WW and the wight legion deserved a bit more for their story line? But to cut this entire story arc with a single silent stab just feels so cheap and lazy. Absolutely unsatisfying. Left so many questions unanswered..

Nick K

Thank you. On point. Same here.

Nick K

Yup, it certainly looked like they're about to stab each other and were saying bye bye.

Nick K

I'm not saying that Arya was not capable of taking him down, but rather that it wasn't the way that entire "threat" should have been eliminated. Not in a 5-second action with 0 explanation or development. Just bad and disappointing.

Oleg Burkov

I feel sorry for people who still think any complex theories are going to work out in the last, what, 160 minutes of the show? Guys don't waste your mental resources. The showrunners turned out to be just dumb, they couldn't support the story's architecture and are absolutely helpless (and hopeless) without Martin.

Oleg Burkov

Doesn't mean anything. Read their interviews on NYT: <a href="https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/05/arts/television/game-of-thrones-night-king-isaac-hempstead-wright.html" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/05/arts/television/game-of-thrones-night-king-isaac-hempstead-wright.html</a> + <a href="https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/01/arts/television/game-of-thrones-night-king.html?module=inline" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/01/arts/television/game-of-thrones-night-king.html?module=inline</a>

Daniel Johnson

I don't understand this type of comment that praises Martin as the true genius and the Thrones showrunners as the comparable morons. Martin himself can't make good on his own setup and most likely never will. There have been a lot of epic, mythology driven stories over the years that were brilliant teases but never bothered to think through the resolution, like X-files, Lost, etc. Thrones/ASOIAF was supposed to be the antidote to that but it looks like it'll all just be one more tease. That responsibility lies with Martin, right?

Oleg Burkov

8 times yes. This is so dull... Gosh I still can't believe they just through all those "mysteries" away and didn't care to explain at at least any of them. This is the dumbest grand series finale, even 'Lost' ending explained more.

Oleg Burkov

Exactly. He won't be back - just officially confirmed in the actor's interviews. Seems that Bran will overcome some transformation, but without the Night King's help.

Oleg Burkov

If it is true, it should be explained IN the series! Leaving this completely unaddressed is against any narrative sense :(

Oleg Burkov

Totally agree. Ok I can even buy all this 'many things led to this development' argument (not exactly) - but Aria didn't train to be a ninja, she was trained to be a MAGICAL killer. She used freaking magic of the Faceless God! What for? To kill the Freys and then forget it? This out-of-nowhere jump with a dagger was completely implausible and didn't fit into her arc at all. The Night King who can survive the dragon's fire must have died from some magic comparable to his powers! Would it be Faceless magic, Lord of Light, children of the forest or whatever.

Shruthi R

@Daniel - Well, Martin isn't responsible for the pathetic excuse of an episode that was S08E03. 'The Long Night'? No, this was more like an evening of mild inconvenience. Would seasoned battle commanders like Jaime or Jorah (or even Tyrion or Davos or Brienne or Jon or Royce) have come up with such dumb military strategies in the books? No. Would Martin have equipped the top-tier characters (and dragons) with god-level plot armour? Most certainly not. Would Martin have let the Others be destroyed so easily in the books? Definitely not. The Others are not the simplistic zombie-creating entities in the books; they are conscious, intelligent beings, with a language and a culture of their own, and they're definitely not a hive-mind as the show suggests. And if destroying them was so easy, wouldn't the heroes in the original Battle for the Dawn have done it thousands of years ago and ended the apocalypse once and for all? So, yes, it is clear that the show-runners care more about spectacle than logic or story at this point. They think they can throw money at the screen and assume that will mask all problems with the story and script. They think they're cleverer than Martin and ditch every prophecy they've set up for seven whole seasons and instead twist dialogues from previous seasons to 'subvert audience expectations'. Martin may have written himself into a hole, but he would never resort to such shoddiness, and this is certainly not the conclusion we'd get from him.

Shruthi R

Absolutely! I'd be furious if this is the only conclusion we'll ever get in our lifetimes!

Nick K

А жаль.