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OOOO he maaaad

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OP 1078+1079

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Nick

5 Elders: "seems like somebody smart is in charge of Wano", them being outsmarted by an 8 year old

Chris White

In 1079 I feel like I need to clarify this so people don’t get confused: Yamato, Biologically and Physically, is a woman, he just Self Identifies as a man out of respect for Kozuki Oden. Kiku on the other hand, I THINK is Actually trans biologically; but identifies as a woman at heart. I COULD very well be wrong with this statement about kiku, so if someone Truly knows, don’t be afraid to correct me. (This is not me trying to be the “Um aCTuAllY” guy, just trying to explain things as I understand them the best way I can, while being respectful to everyone involved.)

Chris White

Gods I love this anime so much. Cant Wait for the future arcs cause it is gonna be WILD.

Supermew

Yamato is a trans man, Kiku is a trans woman.

Chris White

It’s like home alone, imagine getting your teeth knocked out by an 8 year old. Lol

Sam Marsh

Interesting fact, but Oda confirmed that Tama is part of the Kurozumi clan (possibly one of the last surviving members), but despite everything, she choose not to follow the dark vengeful path of Orochi, and instead played several instrumental parts in Wano’s salvation. She is a treasure that deserves happiness and peace.

DDayJayke

Wait, Alicia, you don't use your ultimate move to eat?

King

Damn, the Hawkins fans (the few there are) must have struggled lol

Chris White

Hey, after the fights they’ve been through, I think they’ve earned their right to do so. Also, who gonna stop them?

Chris White

I’m sorry, WHAT??? I had NO clue!!

Egregore

What matters is that Yamabro goes by he/him and we should respect that regardless of appearances. Kiku is just straight up a trans woman though, no room for interpretation there.

Squirrel

"Trans biologically" is a pretty nonsensical concept - a person is transgender if they identify with a gender not assigned to them at birth. That has nothing to do with biology or anatomy.

Goad_VA

I’m mad…. I was hoping her to dance again on that man’s grave 💀

Infernal Disdain

Basil Hawkins her personal Villain defeated, now Alicia must find a new opp.

Loro

It’s crazy how much content Oda cut out of Wano with how long it ended up being

Loro

Kiku is a trans women whereas Yamato identifies as Oden

Vendacator

Things are getting spicy

ThatoneGuyoverThere33

44:57 How is Horselina sitting comfortably in the bath while Kiku has to cramp up. She is a full on centaur

Lucas_oreki

Its so insane to me so called "One Piece fans" will fight themselves to death over if Yamato is trans or not, and then theres literally this scene both in the Manga and the Anime. People are just braindead man

leviathan_13

14:13 ...and here there is a MASSIVE detail that obviously flies over the heads of every non-Japanese speaker: on the graves of Tama's parents, we can read that they were Kurozumi. So Tama is a part of Orochi's clan. It's such a shame that such an important detail, that drastically recontextualizes both the character of Tama and the feud between the two clans, is just lost in translation. Momo and Tama are such good friends and Tama just proved once more that Orochi is full of bs, given that he made even the surviving Kurozumi suffer. I can't wrap my head around why they didn't "reveal" that better. Literally a close-up on the graves would've been enough for the manga or an extra subtitle for the anime. It's such a missed opportunity...

Rej

gender has nothing to do with biology dipshit, just say you're transphobic and go, shoo, we celebrate freedom here

Goobert

I love when mfs who preach acceptance are always the first who start slinging insults, usually at shit they made up in their heads. Anyways, Yamato is a woman who gets referred to as he, cuz of the whole Oden obsession. Its a pretty simple concept and generally completely unfocused on gender, the way we're still talking about this is crazy

One G. O A. T. One Dream

Her fucking up here just gose to show how peak it is. So peak she forgot to be professional about it XD

Rell_TheGoat

Hey now she can’t say his cards were bs 😂😂

Hugh Mungus

And yet she was introduced as DAUGHTER of Kaido and is called female in her vivre card, as opposed to Kiku and Morley who are both explicitly confirmed as trans women in theirs. You don't get to ignore arguments against your opinion then call others braindead.

Hugh Mungus

4:05 Technically there are nine of them there.

XanderDPanda

Favorite Gags of these cool down episodes are: Luffy casually using snakeman's culverin plus future sight observation to eat, Zoro going Ashura so he can eat without stopping his sake drinking, And of course Carrot having zoomies in the bathhouse

Jimmy H Lam

Yes let's talk about it. Orochi is such a giant fucking piece of shit Hypocrite. He did nothing to help his fellow Kurozumi, and he probably victimized Otama even worse than whatever actually happened to him. At this point I genuinely wonder if he's a unreliable narrator. Orochi could have made Otama's life better but he didn't care. It was always about himself

Jimmy H Lam

Vivre cards are also known for being wrong. That's also a true statement. But you have to read between the lines. Yamato was called the Ogre Princess up to a point as well. But at this current point they identify as a male. Also why do you not want to use their chosen pronoun is also sort of the problem. Oden was a man, Yamato wants to be Oden, therefore Yamato Identitifies as a man, as depicted in the men's bath. He chooses the male bath when given the option. At this point you're being either just being contrarian or ignorant. In a series about being free and choosing what you want to be and striving for that, let Yamato be Oden, let him be a man.

Speed1247

Except this blatantly stating that they are a guy as they used the excuse that the baths aren't mixed to not join nami. The baths are explicitly not mixed so the men go in one bath and the women go in the other. Yamato joined Luffy and the other guys, pretty much explicitly stating his gender identity.

Lucas_oreki

Of course I value the evidence from the original source material more than some side info, especially because gender is not a thing that translates really well from Japanese to other languages. The intent of a statement can change drastically in translation and it happens all the time. What doesnt change is that Oda literally decided to draw this bath scene with a very clear intent in mind: showing that Yamato thinks of himself as much as a man as Kiku thinks of herself as a woman.

SouthHill

Tama is Kurozumi? Wow, never knew.

leviathan_13

@hugh you might say that Yamato is Kaido's daughter who self-identifies as a man. Just as a trans man who is still registered as a woman on their own ID card. So what's the difference? The thing that separates Yamato's case from most other trans people is that Yamato's gender identity is not the reason for his "gender change" but a consequence of it: Yamato identifies himself as Oden, Oden is a man, therefore Yamato is a man. It's probably a unique case, both in fiction and reality, but isn't the end result the same? Different paths, same result: Yamato is a man.

Zynarch

It's also a true statement to say that vivre cards have been changed later if they provide wrong info.

Santi

@leviathan_13 if someone in real life were to identify as a deceased person don't try to act like you wouldnt look at them in a crazy manner. Yamato only takes on being a man bc she wants to be Oden, if you dont address her as Oden you are already denying her of her choice of identity. So which is it? Are you going to henceforth regard to her as Oden or not? Bc you cant claim to care about how she identifies herself while also denying that she is Oden in that case.

SakakiMaya

The joke is Zoro died but his soul got lost on the way to hell and his soul ended up at his body.

Santi

yes and they've been corrected consistently. even in the vivre card sets that came out with yamatos gender had corrections made to it, but none to yamatos. also you cant use this as an argument without also calling into question every other vivre card as well. should we call morleys and kikus vivre card into question then? kidd and killers crush on their childhood friend victoria was also revealed in a vivre card, is that unreliable as well? where exactly do you draw the line?

Zynarch

Summing up the 2 opposite sides of Yamato gender argument: One side cares about the reason why Yamato is called a man and the other doesn't.

JuanmaRailgun

I'm kinda bothered that the subs decided to go for Akazaya Nine instead of Nine Red Scabbards. I mean they translate most other names with a meaning like Celestial Dragons, so why not this one? Also, Momo.

Lance Ivy

not only did you save your people , you avenged your friend and lived to protect his son. well deserved tears indeed

Lance Ivy

i always took that as nami flirting lol

Lance Ivy

for the recored that noes bleed was all toie that was not in the manga did my boy dirty

Rej

lmaoo you still don't get it, yamato is a transman and oden being his inspiration for becoming one is 100% valid and Oda has made it clear that yamato is a transman when he joined the other men in the bath, sorry your transphobia has no place here

Don_Scampie

Yes, Oda had an all female colour spread with Yamato in it. So what now? Why is it so hard for people to see Yamato as Yamato? Can't understand why pushing IRL stuff into the world of One Piece (or others) and attacking people over those. Oda was online attacked because of this stuff and those people claim to be "inclusive and tolerant"... what a joke. Just enjoy the journey in One Piece.

Lucas_oreki

The tone of my original comment was definitely too harsh, I apologize for that. I didnt rlly intend to create a discussion like this since I am quite sick of those tbh, the comment was made more from a state of disbelief because of how clear the scene is to me even in the anime. In the end, it is true that everyone should think what they want abt Yamato, One Piece has plenty other trans representation, so its not rlly worth to die on that hill and defend ones opinion endlessly here

Don_Scampie

@Rej Can we stop calling people, who have a different point of view (in this case) transphobic? Insulting people because of it, shows you don't celebrate freedom, but your own worldview. So much for open minded and inclusive. Oda made it clear? Why then is Yamato on an all female (yes, Kiku isn't on it) colour spread after Wano? Yamato is Yamato.

Reise M.Lukas

I know this is a controversy and I don't want to stir the pot again but I don't know why you would be weirded out if Yamato chose to use the girls bath. Yamato is biologically Female. She may identify as Oden/Male but there would be nothing wrong with her going to the women's bath. Oda himself put Yamato on a color spread of the women in One Piece so even he considers her female despite the character's chosen identity.

TheRoguelock

I try to stay out of this myself, but I'll give you my take on it. People on both sides of the "what is Yamato's gender" argument have made their points. Pretty much everyone refers to Yamato as son/boy/he, etc., and there's the scene of them going into the men's bath when Kiku (who I don't think anyone has any right to disagree with the fact that they are a Trans woman) went into the women's bath. On the other hand, in several text boxes or at other points, they are called "Oni Princess" or some variation therein, there's the cover page of them with all the girls, and there's the Vivre Card logs/encyclopedia - which while not put out 100% by Oda, is made using his notes, templates of the characters, and is made using his feedback (i.e, he corrects it if something is blatantly wrong, I believe) - that list Yamato's gender as female. Additionally, from what little I've been made to understand, the Japanese language doesn't make use of pronouns like English or other languages do, as people have argued back and forth about Yamato introducing themselves using "Boku", which while typically used by men to introduce themselves, is used by women, especially those that are more tomboyish, as an example. All this is to say that the whole thing is a mess. I feel like some people on both sides get a little too aggressive about it, with transphobic comments from one group, and just straight vitriol from another because someone doesn't agree with them that Yamato is 100% trans. Obviously there are cooler heads, and it's not so black and white of one group saying where Yamato's gender identity lies (hell I'm pretty sure someone in the comments of one of these vids that identifies as trans said they don't see Yamato as trans). That said, things like this are important to people, which is why people get defensive. We like to see characters we identify with, whether it's their personalities, experiences, or who they are as a whole. LGBTQIA+ people deserve to feel represented in a way that doesn't depict them as evil or as outcasts. One Piece has some decent representation between characters like Bon Clay, Ivan, Inazuma, and Kiku (also Morley, but no one talks about about our trans burrowing queen), but people still get excited to see new possible characters that they can say, "They're kinda like me!" Personally, I see Yamato as a woman who admired Oden so much they sought to emulate them as much as possible, and appears very tomboy-like as a result. We see this with their reactions, as they behave distinctly differently from other women in One Piece, and are even drawn somewhat different. But I'll never begrudge someone who sees Yamato and believes them to be a trans man, because that's their perspective. Ultimately, we have no 100% confirmation who is correct, and until we do, this will continue to be a hot-button topic. tl;dr: This subject is messy, but important to certain people. I don't see Yamato as trans, but I understand and respect people who do, and I hope that people will respect my perspective as well. This is ultimately a fictional character, not worth laying into someone about, so long as they act in a respectful manner. Now if you'll excuse me -*pulls on hardhat*- I need to get to the "I discussed Yamato's gender" bunker

Nick

For me the whole identity thing with Yamato feels much more about embodying oden more than having anything to do with personal identity. I mean it’s cool with me if Yamato is a trans character it’s just a bit confusing for me to know what the case was intended to be since the aspect of “being oden” is so specifically harped on over and over I feel like that was supposed to be the main takeaway.

Rej

Yamato literally said "Oden was a man so I became one too!" so yes please go away and don't come back

WarBoss94

I mean... I feel like the big thing causing problem is that people are applying a western understanding of gender identity to this Japanese work. Not everything will fit in the American / Western social framework that we live in, and getting all hot and bothered because some guy on the other side of the world is not depicting his character's gender the way we want is a bit dumb. The world exist outside of our borders, and shocker, their historical and social context may differ from ours! Japan is a far away, isolationist place with very different culture and norms... and you are surprized you can't put every character originating from over there in those neat little boxes you use to sort and categorize people in your day-to-day? Weird... TLDR: Social context is important, and getting offended because a work of literature from across the sea isn't tailor-made for our own worldview is... kinda short sighted... also just to be clear, I'm not disagreeing with the comment above, just adding my two cents.

Green Oak

@Rej You're actively making things up. Yamato NEVER used Oden and "inspiration" to become a man. Yamato would equally want to be Oden if Oden were a woman. I'm not saying Yamato isn't trans but what you said is completely false

Goobert

I feel like the main issue of the whole situation is people have nearly 0 interest in having a legit discussion about this, and are so spineless and emotionally unstable that the mere notion a character isn't what they want them to be will cause them to brush off, insult or just personally attack the other person. Evident even in this thread above... I've already said my piece on Yamato a while ago so im not rehashing that, but what i can say is this is the perfect example of why you should never ever engage with fandoms of any media you're a fan of, they all objectively suck in one way or another.

Blarg77

This has been a heated topic for awhile now but Oda has never stated Yamato is trans. I think of Yamato wanted to be Oden because she looks up to him and respects him it had nothing to do with gender.

Simulacrae

Kin is in fact, very very proud of momo. But he is also, i think, crying for the childhood he's now fully lost. He's still a child mentally, but now his body is 20 years older. And Kin knows that while he's needed, he's still going to weep for what Momo lost.

Simulacrae

Hawkins is a tragic character in alot of ways. I was sad he didn't get any kind of redemption cuz I always thought he was a cool character. Never seen this much hate for him, tbh. Not that you cant hate whomever you want lol. I just think Hawkins is tragic in that, while strong, he is also just not one of those "i can win no matter what" and wanted to survive the only way he saw how. Then with forseeing Kid's victory, he decided to try and keep hold of some pride, by seeing it through till the end. Thats how I see it at least.

trippersigs22

Nah, Fuck Hawkins. Total bum of a character.

Zarathos Daimaoh

I don't hate Hawkins, he never gave any positive good guy vibe, and he's a fine villain. But there is no way he got real fans and people that really cares lol. He can't even win a single fight on his own, and ain't even a decent leader or strategist to counterbalance that.

Diveblock

its always the mfs who have no idea how gender work telling others. identity is gender if even fucking kaido can get it right you can too.