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Criminal Minds 1x16 (Patreon)

Published:
2026-05-10 16:02:17
Imported:
2026-05
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slavicandsapphic

This episode is so good. And we get ever closer to s2, which i think yall will enjoy

slavicandsapphic

‘Indians’ is the outdated term (in the military, it was/is a common thing to ask ‘feather or dot Indian’) However, this is a RECENT change. The legal and federal term is still Indians tho, so I’m not surprised we only recently got more aware

Paradox Entertainment

As someone who grew up with them, I've never seen American Indians be offended by being called that. They called themselves Native or American Indian. Most just called themselves American, actually. Hope this helps :)

slavicandsapphic

Lowkey, your message comes off like “That’s not racist, I have Native friends, I would know!” Truth is, you wouldn’t. Your friends, the people you grew up with are a fraction of the wide group of Native Americans in this country who have spoken out against using “Indians” unless in court (where the term is still legally used). You can look up how many tribes have spoken out how this has erased their identities, led to a slur, and is downright disrespectful. Also, it is more common for Natives to use their tribe names vs Indians OR Natives as Native Americans are not the only Indigenous group. I’m not saying you or your friends should stop saying it. I can’t control you, I am some random fuckwad on the internet. But as Alicia said, the Indians from India exist so in the year of our lord 2026, I think it is ok for society to start moving away from calling Natives “American Indians” and give them the respect of calling them by their tribe name. Also, that “hope this helps :)” felt super condescending so like. Maybe dont lol

Hellnyte

depends my local tribe prefers native on average my best friend prefers Indian because of how stupid it is to call him that so he chuckles every time

Trevor Appel

27:26 Indigenous is the proper term, and for the ones in artic regions like Alaska and Canada it's Inuit

kaizerlith

Season 1 and 2 have a few episodes that could feel pretty dated for both cultural or technological reasons but besides one(Mall one for people who know) I can think of they aren't offensively bad. But you can tell some episodes are written by very old white men trying to write something they have no personal understanding of. But they are trying to write positive messages just they themselves get a little tied up in understanding.

Manuel E. Flores C.

Well, it may come off that way but someone who grew up with American Indians really would know better than someone who hasn't really interacted with them. Just as you can argue anecdotal fallacy for people in favor of indian, the same can be done with those against indian. The only statistic I personally know of is that the 1995 US Census revealed about 50% of the indigenous prefer this term while only 37% prefer Native American, but that is an older statistic so take that as you will. Obviously, they prefer to be called by their tribal name, just as Hispanics prefer their nationality, or Africans their ethnicity, but unless you're referring to the very specific tribe/ethnicity it is useful to have an encompassing term for the whole group. For this term some prefer native while others prefer indian, and it varies by age, group, context, and region; in other words: no one is wrong for choosing one term invented by the white man over the other term invented by the white man. Anyone aware of these nuances but still argues one way or the other is really just being pedantic at best. If you really want to get into it, indian may have caused confusion with people from India if you ignore context clues, but it's been in use for so long most people understand whom you're referring to. Native American can also be confused between the first people or those native to American soil, ie those born in the Americas, plus it also tends to exclude in understanding the indigenous people outside of the US, with those in Canada preferring aboriginal, while those of Latin America preferring indigenous.

Jack Mingle

@Slavicandsapphic I am an American Indian, I don't care about the terminology, only people that do have way bigger mental health issues to work through. Well Adjusted people like myself don't get hung up on such a small insignificant detail. I live in Canada and we have the "Indian and Northern Affairs" Government office and certificate of INDIAN STATUS. I think it comes off as erasure that we can't be Indians, we need some safe name given to us by those above us, so you all feel safe. It comes off as quite patricizing when you say "oh we need to respect this group of people I'm not a part of so I will step in to be the moral adjudicator" As if Indians/Natives are too inept or not smart enough to decide for themselves on an individual basis what they want to be called, or incapable of recognizing malicious phrasing and intent. A bit backwards I say. Calling Indians from India "indian" is just as offensive by your logic because it comes from the time of BRUTAL British colonization of India. There is Hindi, Bengali, Urdu, Punjabi, etc. about 30 different ethnicity within India. By your logic we shouldn't refer to any of them as "Indian" either. Where does the blame game stop?

Jack Mingle

Canadian, most natives don't care about terminology, Indian, Native, Indigenous, Metis, etc. We are all the same humans, Tribalism just tears people apart.

Bob Jacque

Ant, siblings with vastly different colored hair absolutely happens. My eldest sister is blonde and I've had dark brown hair my entire life!

slavicandsapphic

@Jack Mingle Hey I’m going to point to the sentence I said where “I am not saying you or your friends should stop saying it”. You can say it, the guys who raised me still say it bc thats the older generation. My friends who are my age who are Native do not call themselves that though and find it disrespectful. There are also Native women in my mom’s life who helped when I was young who instilled a lot of this in me. I also know its used legally. Literally acknowledge that in both of my comments. Also, to your last paragraph: sure, why not? I think we should work on de-colonizing our language more and more as we are more diverse than people realize. You see it as a blame game, I see it as a way to become better to our fellow human beings. So, thanks for pointing that out, genuinely But once again, for the last time: I cannot ‘police’ your language as I am just some guy on the internet. I am just yapping and was responding to what someone tried to say to me

slavicandsapphic

@Manuel Couple of things; My personal advice is to not use studies from over 20 years ago. They’re often considered unreliable/irrelevant to the current day. In the time since ‘95, two generations have been born. The oldest in Gen Z are already graduating from college at this point, while the oldest in Gen Alpha are in high school. There’s been a lot of change since the 90s which renders a lot of studies/censuses about society useless (its so annoying for research fr lmaooo) I am someone who has been around Native people basically my whole life. It’s not something I have “barely interacted with”, as you said. I do understand the apprehension of “white person saying smth”, however this comes from a place of being educated by my peers and the people who helped raise me. They are people who taught me a lot about the other terms *besides* Indian and why people can prefer it. First Nations, Indigenous, etc. No one is ‘wrong’ in this, its somewhat complicated. However, i think we can be better than we have been and learn to grow with our language. We’ve changed how we refer to groups before, we can do it again.

John Playstation

Dude, stop trying to white knight this stuff. If you’re not in the community Alicia was asking about, then this is the time to sit back and listen to those that are.

Darc Hart94

I have dark brown hair, my sister has dirty blonde hair. Siblings can have different types of hair

Darc Hart94

I hate the tropes these tv shows use for natives and all that jazz. Cause they always try to pretend the natives were 100% innocent. Not saying that settlers were wholly peaceful. But double standards ya know

Thevenomous

My twin brother and I have the same hair colors as Hotch and his, so its certainly possible.

TwinCat

I have 5 blood-related siblings. Between the six of us, we have 3 different hair colors: red, blonde, and dirty blonde x3

Aliulo

On the topic of Indian as a descriptor of American peoples: Really depends. The continent is a big place, and different groups have their own opinions on the matter. Some use Indian, some use Native, some use their specific name, some even use Amerindian. It comes down to who you're talking to. First Nations is specifically Canadian. Indigenous is a wide term that has no concrete definition, but often has connotations of being colonized and subjugated by a dominant culture in one's traditional territory. From a legal standpoint: I may be wrong on this, but I remember learning that a lot of treaties and law work use the label "Indian" in the wording, so it is sometimes in a group's interest to keep the label so some suit doesn't go "Well, that's not you." This may not be the case anymore though, I don't know.

Twiska Brand

I didn't say you guys always said it was a white man; I said you guys said they had yet to have a female killer when there was one in the second episode. I never brought up race.

Adrian

With that hair bit, that's my sis and I. She's a pretty dark brunette, I'm blonde. Genes are just weird sometimes.

Liberty

RE: Hair colour - my sibs and I have different hair colours. Youngest is a red head (taken from Grandma), I have coppery brown, another brother has more dusty brown, little sister has blonde, another brother has a very dark black/brown, and last bro has black. To Be Fair, little sis has a different dad to us, but the rest of us have the same father and mother. I was a blonde when I was a baby, went red and then copper-brown. IDK, we're a bit of a mixed racial breed tho - on Mum's side there blonde and brown and black. On Dad's there's red and brown and blonde. XD Genetics be wild sometimes.

Liberty

They were likely talking about multiple comments, not just yours. That and combining a bunch into one overall impression. Don't take to heart what isn't meant to be an attack against you.

KokoPelly

I'm actually a curly blonde girlie and my twin brother has straight black hair. I do look exactly like our mom, and he's a carbon copy of our dad so 🤷‍♀️

Manuel E. Flores C.

@John Playstation the people of those communities are welcome to comment and they have. Slavic's commments are no less welcome and he has no need to sit back, especially given his proximity to those communities. @slavicandsapphic I agree that much has changed since that study (that's why I made note of its age) it was more simply to point out that anecdotes could really go either way and that OP wasn't wrong with his comment. Assuming the OP is at least 20 years old he grew up shortly after that study, before it could change drastically if it has, meaning that the people around him likely did prefer Indian and they weren't a small fraction of the population but a representative portion; i.e, he would know and his comment was helpful. I guess I should've realized by your username, but I didn't clock that you were white tbh. But wait, so if your expertise also comes from basically growing up around indigenous people, why would you accuse OP of sounding racists for mentioning the same reason? Just as you mentioned this fact now to prove the weight of your argument over some random white person saying smth, OP also mentioned it to validate what he was saying, to show he didn't just pull it out of his butt. I agree that no one is wrong for whichever term they use, since so many different groups prefer so many different terms, but I ultimately disagree with your conclusion. There's no reason to complicate it: instead of changing our language to fit the sensibilities of a few (and changing it again and again) we should simply learn to grow thicker skin. It's of course courteous to use someone's preferred term when interacting with them but as a generality all terms should be free to use. We may have change that before, but we shouldn't keep doing that; policing someone for using the least correct term won't help us grow, it'll stagnate us.

M

Have you ever seen the George Carlin bit on the term indian for natives? Interesting stuff

peachylxv

as a kid i thought it was normal for siblings to have vastly different hair colors. i had blonde hair my entire childhood, while one of my brothers had light brown and the other had black. their hair hasn't changed, but now i have light brown lol. crazy that i look nothing like them besides from that. genetics are weird bro

PokéBoyBB

To be fair, this episode made it very clear that the Natives could be just as brutal as the murderers if push came to shove, they just wouldn't be confusing stuff with other stuff. And the racist land owner guy DID mention how the natives would kill white settlers and show off their corpses. I wouldn't say this episode falls under the "Natives never did no wrong" trope

Darc Hart94

But they also didn't fully mention the natives being violent and borderline genocidal towards each other and towards the settlers. When you visit a new world and see people acting like that you tend to fight to protect yourselves. Its like when those rich idiots went to that island of cannibals despite them being forbidden from interacting because it was like an isolated island that had no knowledge of the modern world. And then they got eaten because of course they did.

Narluga

its not a diss but anyone else trying to watch this show and just end up feeling really tired and fall asleep? Every time its like im fighting myself to stay conscious.

Baron Salt

I feel so bad for the guy in this episode. Like imagine having such deep respect and understanding for your culture and your people and then having it completely bastardized right in front of your face, by a white man no less.

Whatever

You baiting the fuck out of a breaking bad reaction 😭

Remy Rose

I think native is less confusing than Indian I got called an Indian growing up and I always got confused but nowadays I just get called native or even indigenous if someones trying to be polite

Randomocity732

the only thing I dislike about these older shows is that they were still treating Indians as if they were absolutely peaceful tribes and never had their own slavery, wars and conquest amongst other tribes. They are human, they did some bad shit to each other.

Harus Streit

Let's just gloss over the fact they addressed the incredibly gruesome and brutal Apache tribe torture methods I guess.

Harus Streit

17:09 On maybe the 6th rewatch now (love this show) and just to clarify, at least where I stand on the 'um actually', In episode 7, the one with the family therapist killer, Ant first says "First woman/one on the show?" then a little after, Alicia says "First woman killer on the show."

Lykeios Little Raven

My brother has blonde hair and i have brown (though i was born blonde and it shifted to brown when i was 3 and i still have some blonde highlights in summer due to the sun)! So that definitely is a thing. My dad was blonde until his late teens/early 20s.

Lykeios Little Raven

The "Native," "Indigenous," "American Indian," "First Nations" thing is very complicated. It can vary by tribe/nation, locality, and individual in terms of which is preferred. That said, in the U.S. the tradition of calling Natives "Indians" has continued because of tradition and the fact that even government agencies are still using that term. We still have the "Bureau of Indian Affairs" and many Native Americans will still use the term because it has been in use for so long it's what They are used to. (i'm native myself and i don't particularly care which term is used.) Best practice is to simply ask or default to "Native American" or "Indigenous" if You're unsure. For some Native Peoples the reclaiming of "Indian" is taken as important to their identity while others may find it offensive due to the inaccuracy.