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UNCUT - Tribunal (DS9 S2E25) | Star Trek Journey 327 (Patreon)

Published:
2025-11-14 15:33:04
Edited:
2025-11-15 13:49:56
Imported:
2026-09
Tags:
stj

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Summer

This usually is the kind of episode I dislike but all the characters and writing made it my number 6 or 4 of season 2

James H

Who’s been holding up the damned elevator? Chief!

Darren

Ah another Maquis one they were going all in this close to the end of the season It’s fun nothing too deep, ends a bit abruptly but I like it.

Murthag

I like the green better

Summer

You can see this was Cardassia’s real response to the maqui and Federation colonies

Fedora The Explorar

I for one am not really something who always wants a mystery in an episode so this is a perspective that I dont really ever consider when watching media. I'd rather for the episode to just tell us whats going on instead of wasting time and doing red herrings and clues to do a mystery. I think if the whole episode is a mystery like Whispers then thats good but for episodes like this or In the Hands of the Prophets just tell me without any pretense that "this is the killer and this is what happened" so we can use the time to do character stuff.

Target Audience

Doesn’t have to be a mystery, the issue is once we as the audience are already told, watching our characters try to figure it out can very easily be boring, because we know the answer and they aren’t doing anything interesting to figure out, just talking about what we know already. There’s good ways to do it of course, but Star Trek typically hasn’t.

THE LORE!!!

I get not wanting to see the recording device, but if they had waited until the end to say "look, they recorded him secretly" wouldn't that be telling, not showing? I don't think the episode needs more of that. At least with that Boone scene in the beginning, they showed that he was up to something and it didn't feel like it came out of nowhere. I do get the criticism, but I think it works in this episode.

Jonathon Tsagris

Cardassians are basically meant to invoke comparison to lizards - Cardassia is scorching hot; when the federation took over DS9 they had to fix the environmental controls because IIRC it was set to about 35c; and Garak has complained about how cold it is on DS9.

Goddess of Empathy

I like to think that Odo wasn't ignorant of how Nestors function in a trial, but that he knew he needed to stall the proceedings long enough for the DS9 crew to figure out what was going on.

paultardspambot .

We also saw the dissident Cardassians in the episode where Quark was in love with the professor

Zenlike Creature

I wondered why I knew Boone's face, he played a scumbag police officer in Diagnosis Murder ;) I enjoy this episode as it shows just what a facade the Cardassian Justice System. Purely the tool of an authoritarian regime. The Chief is right though, can't trust those bloody Cardis! Looking forward to the season finale! But not so much to your holiday break :(

Ryan

I totally get your complaints about Cardassian weather, but I actually think Cardassia is more menacing because it's not dark and stormy all the time. It's not immediately obvious how terrible and repressive their existence is. Kovat even says something like "everyone is safe to walk the streets at night" -- in his mind, that goal is easily worth giving up every other freedom. You can imagine a population that's been conditioned to be happy they're so safe and secure, because all the "bad" people get punished -- so on a day-to-day level, they're pretty content. I find that a lot more terrifying than "oh man, our government has got it in for us AND people keep getting struck by lightning."

Reality Strikes

i absolutely love listening to alex speculate about what is to come!!!! I am so excited for your journey!!!

misti-step

loved alex's smile during miles' speech. he hasnt defended a character this much since data got called a toaster 😅

Paul Wella

First it makes a change using almost my real name rather than jon bolton. A from me, I love this one. Re your final remark guys, you know what the bloody Cardies could do to Odo, just phasor him and make him explore like Julian did to Mirror Odo😂

Keith S

I remembered that Rosalind Chao played some one else's wife before TNG. I looked it up, she played the Korean wife of Max Klinger on MASH close to the end of the series run. It's said that the wedding episode broke some ratings records.

Narnman

The chief's Cardassian lawyer I find especially hilarious in this - "I'm just one day/year away from retirement" congrats you won "they'll kill me" and they probably did just that!

nicerDicer

I love the german DDR stasi callback hahaha

nicerDicer

I'm waiting for the next episode and your reaction :))

MadScientist

You have no idea how much this just saves my day. Best from Switzerland: Mad :)

Joe Concepts

I didn't remember at all that they mentioned the Enterprise. It just had to be a tiny bit of acknowledgment that that show had just ended, right? I guess I'm not sure if they knew far enough ahead when the episodes would air, but it's a nice bit, even accidentally.

harrypothead42024

"So, for this week's show I'd like to put one of the crew through the Cardassian legal system to show the horrors of an authoritarian system. I'm having trouble making the audience identify with Bashir who is the victim." "Change Bashir to O'Brien, see how that works."

tyranusfan

Enterprise spent much of season 7 along the Cardassian border and the DMZ, so I wouldn’t read to much into it

Ian Westcott

It's a good plot, but sadly propped up by something that was absolutely ridiculous -- Odo has cameras all over the place. We see him monitoring Quark, even random corridors, for crying out loud. There was no posted guard, or even a simple camera monitoring the entrance to the bay where the PHOTON TORPEDOES are stored?? This isn't even the 24th Century, and WE would have all sorts of cameras around such a location. Since when was Odo as bad at security as the crew of the Enterprise D?

Carsten Tassilo Gräbe

Not as good as I remembered. The lawyer was the best part of the episode, but I also thought Odo's role in the story was very good.

Terminaldogma01

A bit overpacked with a quick resolution but I like it

Mister Hope

In regards to the weird eye line on the judge…I interpreted the framing that she was mostly addressing the camera i.e. the in universe camera that is broadcasting to the Cardassian populace. It was a subtle choice but I think Avery nailed it.

Philbot

TNG right now! They’re like more Masks? Season 8

Philbot

Ever notice how green the Transporter room is?

Vina

Hotter, but somewhat dimmer too, which I think is reflected pretty well in the ext. shots we see of the city

Philbot

Idk if Keiko goes to conventions but Molly Hana Hatae makes the convention circuit.. she’s in her 30’s now?

tyranusfan

Well, if you recall, Arne Darvin was a Klingon agent, surgically altered to look human in TOS (Trouble with Tribbles). Like here, he couldn't pass a medical exam.

PFCoffey

When Sisko shows up at the courtroom, he should have offered a prisoner exchange, the high command was watching, and knew their spy had been exposed, so they send a quick message to the judge to agree. Roll credits.

SageGreenGoat

Eight people have probably already said this, but the Archon was looking at the camera, like all TV hosts do to directly address the audience

Erorus

I'd rather purple for DS9, but blue's still better than the green.

Summer

I like Voyager saw it before DS9 and before seeing TNG again as an adult

Numinous2019

It has a black comedy vibe (Kafka) that I find a bit oddball, since 'Chain Of Command -Part 2' set the tone for this type of story. Brooks is a very talented director, but maybe he indulged this aspect more than he strictly should have (to try to compensate for the bottle show budget?). I'm surprised Beck was cast in such a small role.

Troubled Tribble

Rosalind Chao is the most underrated actor in Trek.

BN13

The reason why Voyager airs so soon is TNG and VOY were considered the mainstream accesible shows where they expected to get all the ratings from, and DS9 was like the alternative for the hardcore fans. So naturally once TNG went off the air, they wanted VOY on asap to fill TNG's role. This is also what allowed DS9 to get really good. The producers were essentially looking the other way the entire time making sure TNG and VOY met their standards, which meant DS9 got a lot of unsupervised creative freedom as the forgotten middle child. There's a very good documentary that came out in 2018 that you guys would probably really enjoy watching after you finish DS9. In it, the DS9 writers, cast, and crew talk about, among many other things, how they felt once they realized they were the middle child and they were never going to get the same level of recognition as the other shows.

Deliximus

So much said here will be answered in later seasons lol. Totally forgot this was Brooks' first director credit. Looking forward to e26! Thank you!

Matthew Ganz

There are some immutable facts, that through the course of star trek can not be altered. O'Brien. Must. Suffer. :)

Mark Wood

BN13 that is not why anything happened. Paramount and Craft had finalized the creation of a new TV network UPN in 1993, that deal had some lead up time (beginning in 1991). They approached Berman into developing another show that could be used as the flagship of that to be developed network UPN. Development of VOY started in August shortly before the deal for UPN had been finalized (October). The only impact DS9 had was showing to Paramount executives is that if that deal failed (like Paramount's deal in the 70's) they wouldn't waste development dollars and could plug the new show directly into syndication. In fact the biggest issue concurrent to the dealings between craft and Viacom during this period, was Warner Brothers also making moves to set up a new network (and all of these were due to changes that were making headways in the FCC to make it possible). The FCC ruled in April I think of 1993. That was the starting gun for both Craft/Viacom and Warner Brothers in the race to start their own networks. BN13 you describe how events of DS9 getting lost in the PR and public eye between TNG's massive popularity, and the new network and key show heavy promotion of Voyager impacted what happened to DS9. But that had literally, and I mean literally nothing to do with why Voyager started when it did.

Avaria

Goodness me! Allow the Cardassian public into the courtroom during the proceedings? Dear sirs, these are serious people demonstrating the value of order and the firm hand of justice, both intregal to the Cardassian way of life. And yet you would advocate for chaos by admitting to the courtroom persons not directly tied to the matter being addressed? How can you even suggest it? The Cardassian Court is fully transparent. Are not the proceedings of such important trials broadcast to all of Cardassia for their instruction and enrichment? No, there is no need to bring in the public; it would lessen the dignity of the Court. (Besides, if we let in people who aren't officers of the court, it makes it so much harder to tamp down counter narratives when we need to make edits beneficial to the state.)

Summer

And of course you must only let in those interogators who know how to proclaim a tale, where especially the lies are true

Summer

I adore her, wish she had more characters in Trek or Keiko had been devised more broadly giving her a reason to stay near

Mark Wood

Rosalind Chao has absolutely done conventions over the decades, she just doesn't do many of them. From the cast and extended recurring cast of DS9, she is has had one of the better careers after the end of the show. With only Colm Meaning and Siddig El Fadil having a bigger tv/film career.

BN13

I stand corrected. Thank you.

Avaria

Sorry to disappoint your sense of narrative ambiance, Alex, but I think to the showrunners Cardassians are iguana people. They want a nice rock and a sun lamp. You'll have to look elsewhere for your planet of foreboding storms.

Avaria

A very good movie heavily featuring Rosalind Chao is The Joy Luck Club from 1993.

BN13

Yeah I think if they had gone all dark and stormy and obviously evil, that would have been too on the nose. Id expect something like that from The Orville where it's clearly meant to be a parody. With the subtle route that they took, you can see why most Cardassians completely buy into all of the government propaganda. They can truely believe that giving up their freedoms is worth the cost, because on the surface things do seem good and things do seem to be working for everyone. What's most scary about the Cardassians is, outside of maybe the political dissidents we've seen, they don't view themselves as oppressed at all, nor their legal system oppressive. They all believe that they're living in the best way possible, and their government makes that possible on the daily. They believe that they are strong and ideals like the Federation's are weak and inferior.

Forbidden Donut

Blue light for Trek makes sense. It is the color used in the Federation flag / logo after all.

Forbidden Donut

I like how Cardassia Prime looks because it makes me think of it as a dry, hot place, and I think of the Cardassians as slightly lizard-esque, and we know they like it hotter than humans do. I imagine them being the type that would love the idea of laying on a rock in the sunlight to bathe in it like a desert lizard or something. Maybe that's why they all wear those heavy, black outfits because they absorb more heat than lighter clothes. I also like that it's not as on-the-nose with 'look how EVIL their homeworld is' that a dark, stormy aesthetic would probably give off.

Purple

TNG isn't over since you still have some movies left to watch :) On Netflix, there is also a behind the scenes special after the final TNG episode you could check out.

Matchstick Jose

Is the first time they've done the multiple PADDs gag, wherein Star Trek correctly predicted the tablet, but not that you would be able to hold multiple documents on it? So you get characters comically trying to hold 5 PADDs at time.

Scarpad’s Domain

Great performance by Fritz Weaver as the cardie Perry Mason thT NEVER WINS. You now if its a court episode and an O'Brien episode its gonna be good. And it keeps the Marquis/Cardassian Stuff Rolling along, and Shit's getting ready to pop off

Scarpad’s Domain

Its typical to TV of that era thou and its never bothered me much

Mark Wood

I FUCKING love that movie..... It's such a tear jerker, and here I was watching the various scenes, and when they get to the end, that last one, just gut punched me. Was crying more than I have ever cried in a film. At the end when the credits finished and the lights came up there were about 7 guys as the last ones leaving. All like me hoping everyone else had already walked out as we were all drying our eyes. I also strongly recommend What Dreams May Come (its not as good of a film, but it really resonated with me).

Tim Nikiforovs

Yeah, A seems about right, probably a low A for me. I do think this episode is somewhat overrated. Still good for sure, but not iconic. Obviously the main strength is the performances from Colm, Rene, and Fritz. It evokes a lot of the same tone that Chain of Command did, but not nearly as effectively. Still, Picard was being held as a spy in a secret facility. Ever since Dukat's description of Cardassian trials in The Maquis, we needed to see it for ourselves. Seeing what they show and tell the public gives a lot of insight into their society. Not much more to say that hasn't been covered, but yeah, starfleet security is pretty lax to basically let the equivalent of 64 megaton nukes get stolen that easily. I guess the incompetence shouldn't be surprising at this point.

Visuban

"there is no war in Ba Sing Se" ~ Joo Dee

Visuban

its funny that you think they're 'slimy' lizard people. I'm rewatching this with you guys for the first time as an adult; and in my mind they're desert lizards. Garak talks bout being cowld when he freaks out in withdrawl and the cgi yellow sky and architecture is "90's middle eat" coded to me. But its funny because watching this as an adult their interior scenes do suggest more "its spooky stormy outside", not "Jafar and the Genie are right outside" which is what the cgi makes me feel.

Captkirc

The writers actually said they based it in large part on the Bosnia conflict with Serbia which was taking place during the creation of the show in the mid 90s

Ken R

I've stumbled into the mirror universe.

penoyer79

loves court dramas and hasn't seen A Few Good Men?!?! what are we doing here? this needs to be rectified ASAP.

Einar Sigurðsson

I love how the previous episodes with Garak and Bashir about Cardassian literature comes back here, the state and obedience and service. Not justice

M Palmiere

spare yourselves, Voyager is mostly awful.

M Palmiere

Yeah? Well, you know, that's just like uh, my opinion, man.

Paul

O'Brien has gone through a whole lot of stress and turmoil, but he's unshakable. Similar to Picard in that way, always trying to be the most honorable and moral man he can be. And Keiko is great for him, so supportive. I think A is a perfect mark for this episode.

Numinous2019

Yes, your opinion is valid. I'd be kinder to Voyager (and I don't consider myself a fan). There are issues......not blaming anyone, but I am pointing fingers at the head writers......but I do think that the casting is almost totally spot on and I think Alex & Josh will probably find it enjoyable enough.

Mark Chrisco

It would have been great if they had Michelle Forbes cameo as the shadow figure.

Philbot

When Picard was being Tortured Gul madred? Was it? Talked about being cold and hungry as a child I always look at that overcast cardassian sky and think it’s too cold for them. Madred’s stories of his youth make me think of Germany after WW1

Philbot

🧍🏼I’m not gonna talk about Judy.

JordanK1991

Hello Alex and Josh. I love your content! Much of this will be covered later on in the series, but if it helps with your preconception that the Cardassian homeworld should be dark and gloomy, remember that Cardassians LOVE the heat, and, like cold-blooded reptiles, they need both sunlight and heat in order to thrive. Remove either, and most reptiles become lethargic and go into a slumberous dormancy phase. They are, like many reptile species, perfectly adapted to hot & dry climates. The Klingons are the ones who prefer it hot & steamy ;) Hope this helps.

Greg Quinn

Cardassians are basically reptiles. Reptiles usually live in hot places.

Greg Quinn

Rosalind Chao has and continues to have a solid career.

reactive1

It would be great if people could knock it off with the “Voyager is awful” crap.

Miranda

Cardassians DO like laying on hot rocks. Minor Spoiler, sorry - We see this in a later episode

Nolan

Blah, blah, blah, Cardassians = Reptiles, need heat, yada, yadda, yadda... That the Cardassians don't like bright lights might also explain why there are so few outside on the streets. That or curfews. Additionally, we have seen cross-species surgical alterations before - Riker going undercover as a Mintakaan, or that species from the episode First Contacts, Picard as a Romulan in Unification... plus, Dr. Crusher got acid to the face from Worf and had reconstructive surgery done that was flawless. Just the magic of 24th Century medicine where a Cardassian can have all their ridges removed to look human.

Forbidden Donut

It's minor, but you might want to delete that. They prefer our comments to be only about what they've already seen.

Richard Finch

I disagree. I didn’t care much for Enterprise, but it doesn’t get REALLY bad until Discovery.

Nolan

I agree with your rating here. In general, you guys are right about this episode. It's good, not amazing. I feel I should say that now... just in case. 👀 🤪

Miranda

I think this is a solid episode that does a lot of great worldbuilding for the Cardassians. We've already heard Dukat tell Sisko that in Cardassia's trials, the defendants are always guilty. We've heard Garak talk to Bashir about how the highest virtue in Cardassian culture is duty to the State. And here we get the end result: Show trials, where the purpose is to entertain the masses with propaganda about how powerful and wise the State is. The eyeline of the Archon was towards the camera. It's all a performance. Pure propaganda. Yeesh, Garak, this is the place you are so desperate to return to? As others have said, Alex, they are lizard-like, they aren't slimy-skinned, they want hot, dry climates. Garak has commented about how the station is too cold since the Federation took over. Alex, I think you're thinking of amphibians, like frogs or newts, who want slimy, wet places. Lizards want hot and dry places.

Spencer Loften

It's basically a diet version of TNG. It's just so by the numbers and unremarkable. I expect to hear a lot of "this episode was fine" when they get there. This is not to say I actually dislike the show.

Worf and Riker Ride Again

Guys, whatever your opinion of Voyager is, lets just let the guys watch it and make their own opinions, please?

Worf and Riker Ride Again

It's funny to me how most comments I see on Keiko are negative (not here but elsewhere), that she's some kind of overbearing and controlling wife. I don't see this at all, they are portrayed as a happy couple and the actors have genuine chemistry.

Some Guy

The actor who played the over-the-top defense lawyer played a very similar role in an old Twilight Zone episode, "the obsolete man"

paultardspambot .

strong recommendation for folks to check out the Annotated Rapin' Jake Sisko (when you have seen the relevant episode) It's amazing but does contain spoilr allusions at times

paultardspambot .

heres a spolier free sample You know we got Kang, we got Koloth and Kor Three bad-ass Klingons and they're headed to war Kor's starting a ruckus and spends the night in jail Koloth shows up in the office to pay his buddy's bail Pops out of thin air and his appearance is brutal Got a stache like Fu Manchu(1) and a haircut like a poodle Looks with derision on the drunk in the prison Won't even listen when Jadzia wants to got with 'em That's right, we got Kor, we got Koloth, and Kang Don't want this sexy new Dax to join in their gang On their quest for vengenace to kill the albino, She's in better shape than all of them, but what the hell do I know? But they see her swing a bat'leth and it starts to give them pause They think the new host could still bring honor to their cause To fight a child-killer who used a virus and genetics Instead of fight them man to man, he's really that pathetic So now it's Kang and Kor and Koloth and Dax In orbit of the planet when Kang spills the facts It wasn't a plan for battle, it was a plan for suicide. Klingons are the ones in the Kobayashi Maru(2) this time. Koloth tells him this trap is what you get when you deal with the devil Should never have believed this guy would play on the level They can trust him to fight fair 'cause he's always been a coward But now they're bustin' in his lair and his guns have been de-powered Kick down his door, "Look upon your executioners!" They're about to rip your heart out and send you straight to Lucifer Or the gates of Gre'thor and the face of Fek'lhr(3) Not Three Musketeers, but three masters of Dahar.

#MaxwellDidNothingWrong

Yes, but once you accept that it's a riot - with the ability to exceed expectations!

Sunny

There’s gems in all of them in my opinion, even the one I get so bored in that each time I try to watch it I give up and start skipping episodes and then give up entirely. Maybe when I’m old it’ll appeal?

#MaxwellDidNothingWrong

What goes underappreciated about this bizzarro world court system, is that it is believable. With the right society, culture and value hierarchies you could end up with a system like this - so completely opposite our own. And that's what makes this fascinating. Anyone can make up some nonsense, but to have it fit like a glove, that's special.

reactive1

This was a first-time watch for me. Great episode!

Back Flip Bet

It's not completely opposite it's an allegory for how the feds have a 99% conviction rate.

#MaxwellDidNothingWrong

Do you think that stat is because the Feds make up charges against most folk, or do you think it's because they only get involved in crime that extends beyond local police capacity to put the pieces together on their own and actually do catch the actually guilty?

Colby

💯

Summer

I was surprised that anyone didn’t like her, there could have been more or better writting but Keiko and Rosalind are awesome

AdamPacio.art

Keiko's actress, Rosalind Chao, has kept very busy with character work in a steady stream of shows across several genres. Her lead role opportunity just came with the sci fi novel adaptation recently of "Three Body Problem". She's doing just fine, and gettting to act in a wide range of roles and appearances and voiceover work.

Prof Moff

DS9 sex scoreboard catch up version No scores that I saw (remember I am only catching up with the short versions) The sex score board Quark 4 Jadzia 2 Chief 1 Keiko 1 Odo 1 Kira 1 Bashir 1