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UNCUT - Chaos on the Bridge (2014) (Patreon)

Published:
2025-12-24 15:00:12
Edited:
2025-12-25 14:06:19
Imported:
2026-09
Tags:
stj

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  • 583213773.mp4

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Merry Christmas! Reaction available to ALL members!

We watched this on Amazon Prime, but it is also available for free with ads on YouTube, Tubi, Pluto & Plex

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Comments

THE Fans

Awesome! I was looking for a reason to watch this again. There's a couple other documentaries you guys would LOVE. Shatner made STAR TREK: MEMORIES, with original series clips, interviews and behind the scenes stories. It's based on his 2 books ST MEMORIES and MOVIE MEMORIES. I believe it has clips from GENERATIONS, so watch that first. Then after the 2nd season of VOYAGER watch the 25th Anniversary Special. In the late 80s, there was a big deal about found footage from THE CAGE, so they restored it and released it on VHS. They had another documentary about that. DS9 has a documentary for it's release also... if memory serves, it's in the DS9 DVD season sets. It has a few clips from season 1 with tons of interviews.

Raphael Gaytan

You’re both a long way from being able to watch Shatner’s documentary “The Captains”…at least until after you watch 2009’s “Star Trek” movie…but that is arguably his best documentary on the franchise! It comes with more complete interviews as well. I had a lot of fun watching Chaos with you guys, as always! I also remember a certain shout-out, similar to yours, from me to Maurice Hurley at the end!! That guy was some piece of work! He died in 2015, so I’ll respectfully leave it at that. Merry Christmas and have a very Happy New Year to you both and everyone here! 🖖

Collin Freeman

I had never actually watched this before. Thanks for posting it.

Collin Freeman

Yeah, Josh, there are some interviews with people like Ronald D. Moore and Brannon Braga, but unfortunately they get ruined from a spoiler perspective by an audience member or an interviewer asking about something that you guys have not seen yet.

THE LORE!!!

If you enjoyed Shatner's enthusiasm and role in this, you'd probably really love the one he did before this called The Captains (as mentioned by someone else below). That is one you'll have to wait a couple of years to watch and has a different feel, but it's fascinating to hear and see Shatner talk to the different leads of Star Trek that succeeded him on screen. He apparently still reads all the time and is constantly interested in new technology and ways of thinking. For a man associated with having a huge ego, he has a passion for learning about things not related to him.

Collin Freeman

Part of what makes doing behind-the-scenes interviews with the TNG cast so accessible and appealing is those cast members truly loved each other and still do. They still keep in touch. I've heard that has not been true of any of the other casts. More behind the scenes drama and dislikes among at least some of the cast members of the other shows. For example, it took decades before Leonard Nimoy and William Shatner admitted they had some pretty competitive and contentious moments while filming TOS.

Raphael Gaytan

It’s that real-life feeling of family among the cast that sets TNG apart from EVERY Star Trek series! It was genius casting, pure and simple!

misti-step

the bonus features on the season 1 dvd has great info on the casting process, makeup tests, etc if youre interested in checking that out on your own!

Michael Nemo

Les Moonves hated Star Trek so Eff him.

Ryan

Watching this, I kept thinking of a quote from one of those Darren Franich–authored Star Trek retrospectives that I will not link to because maybe it's spoilery: "[Robert] Wise directed The Motion Picture. He is one of perhaps twenty people who you could say saved Star Trek, and he is one of perhaps thirty who you could say almost destroyed Star Trek. (The lists overlap. Gene Roddenberry’s on both, at the top.)" That sums it up well for me. Gene Roddenberry's franchise took a bunch of twists and turns over its existence, and it ended up somewhere very different from where it started, and so did he — but he brought us one of the greatest franchises ever on this planet, dammit, and for that I'd say the chaos was worth it.

Doctor Pulaski

I’ve seen this before, and now I have an excuse to revisit. Surprised it has no future spoilers, but I trust the mods.

ScotchBeard78

YESSSSSSSSS. Now THIS is a Christmas Break gift that I can watch in my room when I escape from my family. This is such a delicious behind-the-scenes documentary. I ate it up when I watched it the first time. Excited to watch it again through your eyes. Merry Christmas, boys.

Jon1701

Good doc, a bit rushed for me. The broad strokes are there though. If you want a deep dive then maybe check out the documentaries on the blu rays

Jon1701

Also I think you should check out “Futures End” - the documentary that came out just before Generations. Some nice behind the scenes stuff for the series but there are a few spoilers for the movie so maybe wait until you’ve seen it. It’s on the blu ray

Sam Langanke

The interview Katee Sackhoff did with Ron D. Moore is great. Also the one she had with Brent Spiner. But I agree - too soon for the guys to watch.

Sam Langanke

You mean the 30th Anniversary Special, don't you?

tyranusfan

One thing this documentary does, for me, is make me feel sorry for Diana Muldaur. She's tossed into this cast, with all the chaos, replacing Gates, who they all loved. Her role is mainly medical technobabble, and she's given this "pick on Data because that was how McCoy and Spock were" part that makes fans hate her. She was probably relieved when the year was over.

tyranusfan

The trip to Tahiti was right before Conspiracy was filmed. Gene hated the story and refused to let it be made. They were under the gun to get the last two episodes in the can, and the writer's strike was already looming over their heads. They HAD to get the last two shows done. Hurley sent Gene off on vacation and immediately greenlit Conspiracy and The Neutral Zone.

Chris Nunnally

I thoroughly enjoyed watching this with you guys. Hopefully more Trek documentaries to come. Merry Christmas, Alex and Josh!

Darin Wagner

Thanks for this, guys! Merry Christmas!

Lost Monk

Maurice Hurley died in 2015.

Target Audience

Been a few weeks since I watched this but doesn’t Hurley use Conspiracy as the example of the script Gene wanted to do and Hurley had to tell him no because it didn’t fit into Gene’s own rules?

Collin Freeman

Agree on all counts, especially the Ron Moore interview with Sackhoff. Also the Michael Rosenbaum interviews with Jonathan Frakes and Brent Spiner are pretty good.

Ryan

Also, there's a DS9 look-back documentary called "What We Left Behind" that's an absolute blast and has a lot more of the kind of stuff you wanted from this one. Obviously you have to get through DS9 first, though.

StealthMomo

You’ll have to wait awhile because of spoilers, but The Shat DOES do another one of these. It’s called The Captains and Bill interviews Patrick Stewart, Avery Brooks, Kate Mulgrew, Scott Bakula, and Chris Pine.

tyranusfan

I think he was merging two different memories. Every account I've read tells that Gene didn't like the "evil Admirals conspiring" idea, since it didn't fit his ideas of the future. (He also objected to that idea, again, in Star Trek VI a few years later.)

Sam Langanke

I totally understand Alex' desire to know everything but as someone wo has made documentaries myself I have to say that you have to be focused to search answers for your question within your given time. The question here was how TNG came together and survived despite all the obstacles. I think Shatner and his team did a superb job to give insight into that.

D Jammers

Maurice Hurley, Star Treks biggest op came up with Starfleet's biggest op? the Borg !!!

Sam Langanke

The mistress thing. Susan Sackett wrote a book about her relationship with Gene: "Inside Trek: My Secret Life with Star Trek Creator Gene Roddenberry" You missed that this title is shown with her name at least once. So Shatner didn't diss her. She dissed herself.

William Peck

455 films makes the absolute best trek documentaries they're cut above the rest imo.

EnigmaticPenguin

I really love the motion graphics in this one. It’s also the documentary Shatner removed himself the most from the narrative, which is nice.

Mike Rogers

Just to enhance on David Gerrold saying TMP was a disaster. Gerrold likes TMP, he was talking of the studio execs view. Even though TMP made enough money to make a profit, they were still put off by the final cost of the movie and blamed Roddenberry. Even though a lot of the cost was from the studio itself ping ponging Star Trek between a TV and movie project. When TMP was finally solidified into a theatrical project, it was after sets were built and the model was built to do TV and they could not be used for movies but they were already payed for. This is part of the thing that made TMP one of the most expensive movies of its time.

Matt Everkoul

Thanks for this & Merry Christmas! 🎄 Looking forward to you guys watching the documentary “Trekkies” someday, but that didn’t come out theatrically until DS9 S6, so perhaps a candidate for the ghost of Christmas future✨

William Peck

As far as really getting in depth interviews with the cast, you really should watch some of the documentaries on the blu-rays of the show. I'm not talking about watching them for the channel, I mean just to answer some of your own questions. Some of them are two and three parts and the ones on the Blu-ray set are really good.

john reed

well when u get to the end of DS9 u hva e documentary too and they are currently finishing a voyager one so lost to look forward too

Rocky hate Mark

Shatner is actually really good at conducting interviews but we’re years away from the guys watching that one.

Captkirc

Leonard Maizlish has one unquestionably positive contribution to Star Trek. When he was in the hospital recovering from surgery he watched John De Lancie on a soap opera and told Gene that he had to cast this guy as Q: As de Lancie tells it, Maizlish passed himself off as a producer and went over everyone's head to get him the part because of a role that the actor once played on the long-running soap opera, "Days of Our Lives." "[Maizlish] said, 'This is a payback,'" de Lancie recounted of his conversation with Roddenberry's attorney — an infamous figure who meddled with scripts and production staffers. As he tells it, the lawyer once had a quadruple bypass surgery, and during his lengthy recovery, watched de Lancie play the soap's eccentric advice columnist, Eugene Bradford, every day. "'You made me laugh when I thought I was gonna die,'" de Lancie said that Maizlish told him.  Read More: https://www.looper.com/2006061/why-john-de-lancie-cast-q-star-trek-the-next-generation/

StealthMomo

He was quite the character wasn’t he? Pretty damn arrogant for sure. He sounded almost proud of the fact that he made a difficult situation even more difficult. RIP but jeez, what a jerk.

Ken R

One of the big mysteries that never got explained is just what and why there were issues with Diana Muldaur and why she too was not happy and wanted no part of it.

Ken R

Nicholas Meyer is probably the 2nd or 3rd most pivotal behind the scenes person in ST. After the middling reaction to TMP he saved the franchise, and it's safe to say that without Wrath Of Khan being a success, there would have been no further movies, and therefore no TNG, DS9 and every show since, and ST would now just be a show on MeTV, sitting comfortably in repeats alongside shows like Gilligan's Island, Bonanza and I Dream Of Jeannie.

Jon Miller

Thanks for doing this, what a fun Christmas present. Merry Christmas boys! When you get to the modern era you need to watch Center Seat, it's an 11 part documentary series on the history of the series that goes into a lot more depth on later seasons and beyond. If you liked this you'll love that.

David Brown

They've actually finished the Voyager one. I, and everyone else who signed-up, got our digital copies. They're just still getting the Blu-ray's put together.

Scarpad’s Domain

A nice Christmas gift I haven’t seen this since it came out looking forward to watching it with you guys

Scarpad’s Domain

Btw there’s a gofundme for David Gerrold who is battling leukemia. I donated the man has contributed tribbles to my life

john reed

ok cool did not know it was so far along

Scarpad’s Domain

The captains summit is a good one when you’re all done. You could do mind meld with shatner and nimoy done before their falling out

Scarpad’s Domain

Gene's whacka doodle vision is what kept trek alive 60 years

Scarpad’s Domain

shatner's done quite a bit in the doc field with the franchise but much of it you cannot watch yet

#MaxwellDidNothingWrong

The real shame is that in one season she comes around on Data but never got vindication - she was the ONLY character who had anything resembling an arc at that point. Damn shame.

#MaxwellDidNothingWrong

Damn, so when are we doing a s1&2 rewatch with all this wacky context???

Ryan

I respect Nicholas Meyer because he was fascinated with military hierarchy and he didn't automatically accept that the Federation was always good -- which laid a lot of groundwork for DS9.

AAckeret

Did the guys ever watch the Reading Rainbow episode from 1988 with behind the scenes for TNG? LeVar Burton was the host, of course. Aimed at kids, but still some interesting stuff.

Redjac

the bluerays you have from TNG has for every season on the end and in the many times middle interviews with writers, actors, producers, directors.

Nolan

Regarding Maurice Hurley, I've been watching Miami Vice, and it's a pretty good show, (Though very 80s) and the impression I get is that shows like that are what Hurley knew how to do, and Star Trek was so far out of his wheelhouse and he was struggling to figure out how to do it, and had Gene's directions and tried to stick to those very strictly along with his TV producer ego power trips and just couldn't grasp the show, nor how to run it. He made a lot of bad calls, but I gotta respect him for at least TRYING to follow what he thought Gene wanted and for leaving when he knew he was doing a bad job.

Nolan

Also, Majel was famously Gene's mistress during early TOS while he was still married to his first wife.

Nolan

Also, when you finish the newer movies, I recommend the 2 volumes of "The Fifty Year Mission: The complete unauthorized oral history of Star Trek." It's just a collection of a bunch of interview answers arranged into a narrative that goes into a lot of BTS stuff, with a lot of contradictions too. Also, the guy that gave Gene Roddenberry that book on "Humanism" was Isaac Asimov, a prolific Science Fiction author. He wrote "I, Robot" and the "Foundation" series of Novel. He coined the word "robotics" and of course, had the idea of positronuc brains, which is what Data is said to have. None of the adaptations of his works do justice to his stories or ideas.

rear adm. crackbiscuit

Lovely Xmas treat, thank you! Merry Christmas back at y'all! Ms. Sackett was the personal assistant/mistress you read about in my take on the all kinds of behind the scenes ironic Ménage à Troi, which she co-wrote. Thanks again for the Xmas surprise!

Schnabley

You guys were talking and seemed to miss the name Shatner gave the production company for this, Wackadoddle Productions. 😉

tyranusfan

The season two blu rays have interviews that shed more light on that.

Darin Wagner

So glad you guys watched this. I tend to side with Hurley in this situation except for his dismissal of Gates. Fun Fact: Hurley was the original voice of the Borg in "Q Who."

Ian Westcott

Maurice Hurley DOES deserve a fair amount of credit for how bad scripts were in the first few seasons, but it was clearly a group effort. Despite his writing woes, it still amuses me that the ONLY episode in which he had sole script credit was Q Who, one of the best-written episodes of the first two seasons, and led to so many interesting things in the TNG verse.

Ian Westcott

You look at Star Trek TMP and ST2, and you can see the differing approaches -- TMP definitely has a TON of money put on the screen, and Wrath of Khan was made at a fraction of the budget. They brought in Nicholas Meyer and Harve Bennett because they were television guys and knew how to make quality stuff for cheap. At least in the 80s, studios hate it when you throw a ton of money into something and barely makes its money back, thus tying up a huge amount of money in one project that doesn't make much profit. However, throwing a modest amount of money into a modest hit, studios used to be happy with that, which is what they got with Star Trek 2 through 6. People kindof don't realize that Star Trek movies were not really blockbusters until JJ Abrams reboots. The TOS movies usually had modest budgets and made modest returns.

Matchstick Jose

The Star Trek: Deep Space Nine Companion is definitely something you should get a copy of, if you don’t already have one. It is an exhaustive look at the series, featuring interviews with every aspect of the production for every single episode. It’s an incredible behind-the-scenes look at a Star Trek series. I know there’s a TNG Companion as well, but I don’t think it’s as comprehensive. Definitely can’t read the DS9 Companion until you’ve finished the series, though. They tend to discuss the whole series at times even in the early season episode chapters.

Brer

Hey, surprised no one's mentioned this (that I can see) but after the last episode of s7 on netflix there is a 45 minute retrospective hosted by Jonathan Frakes that was filmed for tv at the same time as the finale and features real behind the scenes making of footage of that episode and interviews with a lot of the cast and crew, much like what Alex was asking for *Unfortunately I've just rewatched it to check for spoilers and because the finale and 'Generations' were made so close together there is a little bit of footage from the movie which would be spoilers, but definitely you guys should check this out after watching the movie I really think you would enjoy it. Hope you guys had a good Christmas, really looking forward to you starting Voyager next year! Cheers

Philbot

You guys give Nicholas Meyer a lot of shit but he had a hand in writing the Voyage home and possibly Search for Spock? He and Nimoy were carrying the franchise back then.

Philbot

You guys got to see some of Marina Sirtis’ con panels she’s hilarious! There may be some spoilers in her discussions I’m not sure.

tyranusfan

If you can find it, there was a makin of documentary that came out in 1988, covering TOS and TNG season one called Star Trek from one generation to the next. Hosted by Patrick Stewart as an intro for a rare color print of The cage that had been found in the paramount vault and restored. Absolutely no spoilers but with interviews with Gene, Hurley and the cast.

Philbot

I mentioned it! I know on Netflix it aired right after the finale. They should watch it.

Banes

Some of the blu rays have more behind the scenes material. Some nuggets in interviews and a couple commentaries...when the time comes. I don't know if that stuff is on the full season set.

John M.

I don't think there are a lot of good guys and bad guys here. It's been my impression that pretty much anyone who was born in the 40s or earlier was absolute dick in Hollywood and that's just how it functioned: Roddenberry, Hurley, Berman, the other producer in this, just all alpha-male survivor-of-the-fittest bullies, with lots of womanizing thrown in.

Dead Hedge

God this documentary smacks so hard

Ken R

She made that comment here that was so interesting but they didn't follow up. Why did she think TOS was an actor show and TNG was a technical show with actors? The techno babble bothered her that much?

Anthony Hernandez

Hey TA, the Blu-ray’s do have detailed documentaries about each season, and they feature behind the scenes stuff on many of the episodes. I know there is a lot of commentary from some of the people you wanted to hear more from and on more of the episodes you wanted to hear more about. I think those documentaries were created in or around 2001 for the release of the DVD set

Anthony Hernandez

Both of those are great, and I don’t think either has spoilers, but don’t quote me on that

Loot Narsbaar

Why didn't DS9 etc get movies? I can't discuss it fully without spoilers, but what I can say is oversaturation was a part of it. Star Trek had done 25 seasons of tv and six movies over the course of 19 years without any kind of a break. The sequel shows never hit in pop culture like Next Gen did. I think Berman has said, in retrospect, DS9 never got a fair chance because it always had to share the spotlight with another show. He felt if it had gotten to stand alone in season 3 more Trek fans would have given it a chance and realized how great the show had gotten.

Ca$hWednesday

People can shit on Berman, but dude carried the torch for basically the best era of Trek.

Ca$hWednesday

Miami Vice was a damn good show, and ahead of it's time in a lot of ways as well, especially for a "cop show". That type of writing though clearly doesn't work for a show like TNG.

Ca$hWednesday

Yeah, "What We Left Behind" is in my opinion the best Trek documentary period. It's the cherry on top to the finale of DS9. Required watching for sure when they get to it.

Ca$hWednesday

I truly believe that Pulaski could have been a really good character if they gave her more seasons to work on her character. I'd argue she had a better arc in that one season that Crusher did in 6.

Nolan

Man, I just got to the episode guest starring one of the Watergate burglers. Now THAT'S Wackadoodle.

John M.

For sure. He just over the course of the various docs comes off as domineering and sexist, just like every other Hollywood power broker of the era. (I don’t get angry at creators anyway. I generally assume everyone’s trying to make the best show possible even if it sucks.)

Tim Nikiforovs

Hurley may have been an arrogant ass, and I wouldn't say he made too many positive contributions to Trek, but the guy who deserves the most hate IMHO appeared briefly toward the end, and that's Les Moonves. That guy 100% killed the best era of Trek when he cancelled Enterprise. Now, to the question of why only TNG got films, realistically the biggest factor is they were first. Obviously the TOS crew were first, but they'd had their time and were aging out when TNG began. TNG by the 3rd and 4th season had grabbed Trekkies enough to earn the title of true successor. With TNG overlapping with DS9 and the movies continuing to do so, TNG fans never really had to let go of TNG during DS9's run, and while it didn't live up to it writing wise very often, Voyager was a more accessible format to TNG fans missing the show than DS9. Beyond that, between 1987 and 2002 when the last TNG film came out, fans had had a decade and a half of non stop Trek(aside from summer breaks). 6 movies and 500+ eps. Franchise fatigue will set in eventually. I saw a graph tracking TNG/DS9/VOY viewing numbers and it was a steady decline franchise wide over that era, so I don't think DS9 or VOY really brought in or chased away many trekkies. For me and my family, it was all Trek, but with so much in those years, I think a lot of people had just had their fill. Now I happen to think despite the initially negative reaction Enterprise got, it was actually fairly solid in S1 and 2. It had missteps yes, but it wasn't terrible, and like it's predecessors really stepped up in the 3rd and 4th season. We can only speculate, but if the 5th/6th/7th seasons were going where we suspect, I truly believe ENT could have been a strong contender for best Trek series. Cutting the show short was the biggest missed opportunity in the franchise. I think after Voyager, they should have taken a 3-4 year break. They could have still got the main cast not too much older, and trekkies would have been hungrier for it. Anyway, long story short, fuck Les Moonves. There's not a ton in COTB that is new info to me, as I read most of this on Memory Alpha in the background info section of the various episodes and movies during my 2017-2020 rewatch of the franchise. Still, it was a fun watch. It's of course possible RDM did in fact discuss The Bonding. I'm sure these interviews were much longer, but not everything will make the final cut. Lastly, I'm struck by how much Patrick Stewart has aged in the last decade, and how much William Shatner hasn't. Not sure what keeps the guy going strong as he nears 100, but good on him.

Trent Bowles

You are talking way too much about stuff they haven't seen yet. Just because they're asking the questions doesn't mean they want the answer, especially if the answer gets into material they are nowhere close to seeing yet. Just like they didn't need to be aware of the drama going on behind the scenes of TNG before they started watching the first season, they don't need to know the drama to come before they've been able to experience those series for themselves.

Mark Chrisco

At a NYC convention a couple years before TNG with Gene Roddenberry as guest. After his presentation, he played the famous bloopers. I took the opportunity to visit the dealer's room. To get there you have to walk through an ante room. I walked in and came face to face with Gene and Majel Barrett. Just us. She, resting her head on his shoulder, looking very much in love. I was taken aback. He put his hand out, I shook it, trying to think of something profound to say. I don't remember what I said, but he nodded and I moved past to give them their privicy. A great memory.

Tim Nikiforovs

They've been pretty clear that high level production stuff isn't spoilers. There are way more spoilers comments in this thread discussing actor names and such. I didn't even mention a director. They know enterprise was canceled. They've mentioned it multiple times. Saying Moonves did it doesn't spoil a single plot point.

Jim

They did a talk with the actors and I think some writers for the early Season of Discovery. Wil Wheaton hosts it for some of the seasons.

Jim

They already know these series exist. So its not a spoiler. I think I would add that viewers had more Sci-Fi options available after TNG.

Tim Nikiforovs

That's true. BSG and Sg-1 drew a lot of viewers

Beatrice Sullivan

As an aside, my uncle was a guest actor on TNG. Season 1 episode 7 “Justice”. He was the guy with the syringe. It wasn’t a really big part or anything but I’m sure he would talk to you.

KevinH

Alex, Reading Rainbow did an episode where LeVar takes the viewers through the making of a season one TNG episode. It’s pretty fun, and you can find it on YouTube.

Linda Stricker

There is also a DS9 documentary made more recently. When DS9 ends, ask the Bridge Crew to check it for you.

Katie Clayton

Such a great discussion! Toward the end of the video you asked about Gates' return for season three. Patrick Stewart actually went to bat for her himself and called her personally and asked if she would please consider returning. Coupled with an outpouring of letter writing from fans, she was brought back much to everyone's relief. Thanks for another interesting talk!

Worf and Riker Ride Again

I agree, Enterprise is a lot stronger than most people make out. It’s my 3rd favourite out of the 4 series between the 90’s and 2000’s but I still rate it very high.

Worf and Riker Ride Again

Whatever anyone says about Gene, Star Trek is truly set apart from other Sci-Fi franchises by painting a positive view of the future, which was 100% down to him.

Jeffrey P

He also held way too tightly onto the episodic format for far too long, but that's a discussion for a future date.

Avaria

Other documentaries you might want to try (all of these with the recommedation of 3rd party review for spoilers): For the Love of Spock (2016; probably safe to watch now -- Leonard Nimoy's son talks about what it was like to grow up with him and his experience with Star Trek); Woman in Motion (2019; probably safe to watch now -- biopic on Nichelle Nichols and her entire career); The Captains (2011; safest to wait until after ST: Enterprise -- Shatner interviews each of the 1990s/2000s captains [if/when you get to it, please watch the recut episodic version rather than the film, the interviews, particularly of Avery Brooks are better]); The Center Seat: 55 Years of Star Trek (2022; the first 7 episodes MAY be safe to watch as that's about where you are in Trek history -- docu-series hosted by Gates McFadden covering the full Trek production history); I'd also recommend exploring your blu-ray bonus features, but after you finish Enterprise, as they are an absolute minefield of old and new stuff.

Derek Orr

Ugh It’s too bad you guys found out that shatner is in generations

Derek Orr

God no we need more episodic. I’m so sick of serialized mystery box tv

Derek Orr

Ya and I still have hopes they go back to BSG