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UNCUT - The Search Part 1 (DS9 S3E1) | Star Trek Journey 329 (Patreon)

Published:
2026-01-07 15:00:06
Edited:
2026-01-08 13:57:31
Imported:
2026-09
Tags:
stj

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A NEW ERA of the Star Trek Journey

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Trekkie74205

There are a lot of opinions on when DS9 became great. Season 3 brought changes as Michael Piller had set up the show for his departure. Producers Peter Allan Fields and James Crocker did not have their contracts renewed. Ira Steven Behr wrote on TNG Season 3 and then declined to come back. When DS9 was in development, Michael Piller promised Ira if he would join from the beginning, the show would be turned over to him after Season 2. When TNG ended Michael Piller urged Ronald D. Moore to join DS9. He thought that DS9 was closer to Ron’s sensibilities. He said Ron would be the “secret weapon” of the staff. René Echevarria wanted to join VOY after TNG ended, but Michael Piller assigned him to DS9. He thought Ira would be a good mentor and that DS9 would be better for having René. “The middle child (DS9) always gets away with more.” René Echevarria -Producer “I kind of liked the idea of being a secret weapon...” Ronald D. Moore -Supervising Producer “We were the bastard child. But if we were going to be the bastards, we were going to be inglorious bastards.” Ira Steven Behr- Executive Producer/Showrunner

Darren

Both S2 and S3 openers feel very much like the show setting its stall out and saying this is what we can do, it’s probably fair to say that on the whole DS9 was stronger for its first. 3 season openers than TNG (Redemption and TBoBW aside)

Jonathon Tsagris

The main reason DS9 is as good as it is, especially from S3 onwards, is because all the important people basically completely ignored it to focus on Voyager, and the DS9 folks got to play by themselves over in the corner and be awesome.

misti-step

yayy!!! glad to be back 🖖

Jonathon Tsagris

Yeah Ira is probably the number 1 reason DS9 was as good as it was.

Summer

We don’t have to run to anyone else, everyone is here on patreon

Darren

It’s telling that so many of the writers speak very highly of him.

Brendon Waldron

Damn, Ron! The dialogue in this episode is FLOWING

Trekkie74205

Small correction. Sadly, Voyager is in the same shape as Deep Space Nine. DVD only, no HD, and not remastered.

Jonathon Tsagris

The Defiant is a Defiant class ship. It's a prototype. It's easily my favourite of all the star trek ships.

Target Audience

Oh. The box set must look so nice I thought it was Blu-ray lmao

Ryan Roach

Oh, thank God. I was going to be really pissed on behalf of DS9.

THE Fans

I just remembered... I used to love when you guys commented on the TNG promos. DS9 had awesome promos. You can still throw them in after each episode. "Next time! On Star Trek. Deep Space Nine!"

Jonathon Tsagris

What if Jake's shirts and jumpsuits aren't typical earth fashion, and Jake just has the most fucked fashion sense?

Todd “Canuck” Schmuck

I used to say that apart from a few exceptions, the timing of DS9 and Voyager played a big part in which writers went where. DS9 started when TNG was at the height of its popularity, so writers that chose to go there were bigger risktakers(leaving a safe, reliable job for a show that could fail/be canceled). Where as Voyager starting 6 months after TNG ended meant it got a lot of the writers who chose to stay until the end, but needed a new job with TNG ending. More adverse to risk and likely to want to play it safe. 🤷‍♂️

The Ninth Doctor

Love the continuity using a link to Best of Both Worlds Part 1" linking to this - Cmdr Shelby saying "We've been designing new weapons, but they're all still on the drawing board". Given Siskos' comments that the Defiant was conceived five years prior (around TNG S3ish) to fight the Borg, its a nice little origin story for her. And yep, she's a Defiant class. As a prototype, the lead ship of a class always takes the name (same with the USS Excelsior prototype being an Excelsior class) 👍🏼

Todd “Canuck” Schmuck

Just to clarify, those spotted aliens from “Rules of Acquisition” were not the Karama/part of the Dominion(I think they were the Dozi?..🤷‍♂️). When they couldn’t supply as much wine as Quark and the Nagus wanted to buy, one of them told Quark he would have to deal with the Dominion to buy that much, and that she could connect him with a member of the Dominion. But we were never shown what they looked like until now(they might not have been stated to be the race called the Karama until here, but I can’t remember/be certain).

Darren

Ah the opening titles - go grab a drink, make a three course dinner, read book and do some knitting and maybe we will be up to Siskos name.

harrypothead42024

Its my birthday, this is an excellent gift. I forgot we get it a day early.

Marko

Yeah Marina Sirtis did pull jabs at DS9 at times. I don't know if she liked it or not, or if it was just a friendly banter, because Frakes did it as well. It wasn't her best moment in my opinion. But maybe I'm biased because I don't really like her. I do like Troy, just not Marina.

Alejandro Calzetta

Welcome to the end of the begining, you crazy bastards! Personally I love this episode

Ryan

This was your best hook ever. Five minutes of pining for Ron Moore followed by THE MOMENT in the opening credits. LFG, baby. Also Alex's shirt kept wrinkling in such a way that Troi was giving me the stink-eye for most of the episode, which oddly added to the story's appeal. Welcome to the real DS9! Looking forward to part 2.

Worf and Riker Ride Again

I think there are upscaled HD versions of DS9 and Voyager, but they are upscaled, so not really proper HD

Deep Red

I was unable to wait until tomorrow. Hope you guys enjoy the two-parter! And if you don't, I'm sending the Plot after you

Sam Langanke

You see that in the documentary so clearly.

Sam Langanke

Alex and his predictions. Oh boy.

THE LORE!!!

Ok, so a good half of the discussion, Marina's face on Josh's shirt was shriveled up, and it looked like an awful Snapchat filter, and it was impossible to stop looking at it 😂. Super pumped you guys are back on the track with Trek.

Summer

It is Navy tradition that anyone in charge of the bridge of a ship is called Captain

tyranusfan

I read that as “playing with themselves in the corner “. 😁

tyranusfan

The real DS9 starts here! It will start again in season 4 episode 1, and again in season 7, episode 26. 😉😁

Narnman

my fave is from 30:00 - 30:10 on Alex

Colby

I love that in the future, youth fashion will still be just as inexplicably horrible as every generation thinks it is.

Dark Kronis

i like to think sisko replicated that staff and made the whole story about the nagus up

Elizabeth N

So glad you're back! Just in time because DS9 leaves Netflix tomorrow! 😭 Hoping that I can continue following along on another platform. Can't wait to see part 2!

Jonathan Llyr

Thank The Great Bird of the Galaxy that you’re back! Glad you enjoyed this one gentleman. It would have sucked to come back on a low note - and I bought this one a day early for myself for my birthday tomorrow so it was a great present!

Jack Molitor

I appreciate you guys clarifying, but no need in my opinion. You don’t start a freaking YouTube channel and run it for this long and dedicate all the resources you have for something you don’t absolutely love. I freaking love Star Trek. It’s often amazing. Sometimes it’s ok. Sometimes it’s dogshit. I want you guys to be honest about when you feel the same. To the people who never want to hear Star Trek assessed critically: get bent.

Sainjl

Did y’all forget that Picard turned his back on Worf on that Klingon ship that was getting attacked rather than engage in a Klingon Civil War? This is similar, because Sisko would risk the mission if he decloaked. The writers are not consistent with this, but they’ve never been.

JordanK1991

Again, the Yamato is not a clone of the Enterprise :) It's a Galaxy-class starship. The Enterprise-D is only one of many Galaxy-class ships in the fleet, just like the Uss Excelsior is one of many Excelsior-class starships. Ships of the same class look identical, just like the military navies of today. At any rate, glad you guys are back!

Better Watch Trek

First time watching along using my new DVD set. 1. the quality is way better than the netflix (germany) edition. 2. way out of sync, so I had to slow down to 0.96 speed and it was fine ;) Ron Moore is an awesome showrunner (Battlestar, Caprica, Outlander) and Star Trek ;)

Narnman

looks like its over to paramount + to continue

Darin Wagner

The face on Alex's shirt is hilarious.

Zenlike Creature

Look, guys. I paid for the whole year. I'm not going anywhere. I want my money's worth! ;) Not sure if you chaps have ever seen Krull, if so you may remember Kenneth Marshall from that? If not, it's worth a watch at some point, a fun, if somewhat ambitious fantasy film. Great to be back watch DS9 with you. The break really does feel as long as the recap and intro of this first episode of season 3. Enjoyed listening to your thoughts and speculation for the next episode. Let's see how those pan out. Roll on part 2!

Darin Wagner

The Defiant, being the first ship of her class, is a Defiant class starship. Starfleet adheres to 20th Century US Navy class naming conventions.

Evan Guthrie

Holy shit. We are an entire series removed from Dr Stubbs. Crazy to think about. What a journey!

Jonathon Tsagris

If that were the case, someone else would have started wearing that nonsense as well.

Libertu Pastor Bey

It's a friendly rivalry with her. Just sibling jabs, nothing more.

Raphael Gaytan

Don’t tell me the DS9 kiddies are ACTUALLY Star TREKKIN’?!?! One of the fringe benefits of introducing a new Starship to this series.

Doctor Pulaski

Presumably the first Galaxy-class starship was not the Enterprise, but a ship called..... the Galaxy. Likewise, the Defiant being a prototype is the first of it's class, and is therefore a Defiant-class Starship. You did see a ship called the Defiant before, it was a Constitution-class ship similar to Kirk's Enterprise, it was slipping into another dimension.. but you might have been preoccupied with that devious web being spun by the Tholians!

Doctor Pulaski

Yes! I can't wait until season 7, episode 26, when the show really finally starts!!

Raphael Gaytan

The Defiant was also the name of the Starship caught in the inter-dimensional rip that Kirk gets trapped aboard in the TOS episode “The Tholian Web”. Just a bit of Trek trivia! 🖖

Katie Jackson

Hey Guys, the blankets where the gifts I sent you, that I messaged you about! I'm glad you liked them!

Monarch Black

Try the YouTube player instead of the Patreon player. I've had synch issues before watching on Patreon, but I've never had an issue on the YouTube link. Zero synch issues for me on this one, but I'm in the US.

Evan Guthrie

I'm assuming you've seen part 2 already, so hearing your predictions for part 2 is pretty hilarious.

Evan Guthrie

Very... interesting... but I think they've seen part 2 already

Evan Guthrie

Yeah it's kind of confusing, like Australia (country and continent). But the first ship of every class is just named the class. I think the design is ugly, but it's supposed to be purely functional so it fits.

Evan Guthrie

You make it sound like VOY is terrible and unimaginative.

Keith S

I read somewhere that the Defiant was named after the ship in the Tholian Web. Both in univers and real life. I'm not sure on that I could be wrong.

Target Audience

Wasn’t that when Worf was with the Klingons and not in Starfleet? If so, I feel like that makes a difference.

Target Audience

You haven’t had to read the hundreds of comments explaining 1994 tv to us.

CommodoreDecker

Happy to have you back! I've missed you guys.

Sainjl

No he hadn’t left Starfleet yet. He leaves Starfleet in the next scene.

tyranusfan

Yes. Originally, it was going to be named "Valiant," but that was nixxed for...reasons, so Ron Moore (if I recall) remembered the Defiant from Tholian Web, and chose to honor that name.

tyranusfan

Dr Stubbs, like Yoda, will always be with us.

Tim Nikiforovs

I was watching some AI upscaled clips the other night, and a lot of the weird visual artifacts you'd get a couple years ago don't really appear. Close enough to a legit remaster for me.

Tim Nikiforovs

I remember having a bunch of DS9 recorded on VHS in the 90s along with the promos. The ones in S6 had cool background music and were oh so 90s.

Tim Nikiforovs

Hey, let's just be thankful Jake doesn't have broccoli hair

Tin

Don't worry Alex, you be you. Ive seen all these episodes multiple times. I'm here for your opinions and re-watch something I like with a different perspective. Hope others feel the same way.

Tim Nikiforovs

The karemma were name dropped in that episode

paultardspambot .

we've seen the conference room before, but just without the whole staff there.

Tim Nikiforovs

If you want to understand why the guest stars were so often spoiled by the credits, then what you really need to understand is that this was just a few years after the Cold War ended......

paultardspambot .

a few notes. I think you missed it, but the deal with the cloaking device is that the Federation will share all information they gather on the Dominion with the Romulans. The Defiant is Defiant Class, as the class is named after the first ship made. They didn't send the Defiant to fight off an invasion but as a ship that could contact the founders which was tough as Sisko said. And it was. Even though Starflett shields arent effective against the Jem'hadar weapons, the ship took a pounding and was able to destroy a Jem'hadar fighter with basically one shit from the phaser pulse cannons (which are cool, not continuos phasers but charged phaser pulses that are clearly less precie but more destructive). After the Jem'hadar boarded they weren't firing on the ship anymore, they were aiming to take prisoners. You are correct that the Changelings modeled themselves after Odo, who in turn modeled himself after Mora. The Karemma were not the Dosi who were the traders with the makeup, the Dosi were setting up trade with the Karemma. The Dosi are the primary trade managers for the Dominion.

Loot Narsbaar

This was the episode where I started to watch ds9 every week. You can see why.

Spacecataz

Alex is really going to enjoy Lower Decks for a certain moment.

PianoDean

Only 1 X Files this whole month?! GUYS!!!!

River Acheron

Weird....using the Paramount+ app (in the U.S.) as I always have done....it slowly became out of sync as the episode progresses. This has never happened before. I don't know if Patreon is running a tiny bit fast, or if the Paramount+ app was running a tiny bit slow....not enough to be noticeable if I was watching alone, but the speeds were not at a 1:1 ratio :/ There was no buffering or anything like that, just slowly becoming out of sync.

Sleeper

For size since you didn't seem quite sure, the Defiant is smaller than even just the saucer section of the Enterprise. Defiant is supposedly about 170 meters long, Enterprise in TNG is supposedly 642 meters long.

Summer

See I always thought he meant after Best of both worlds when he worked there after the Saratoga was destroyed since that is when he personally would have wanted to prepare for a borg invasion then the threat dwindled

Summer

Now do we want to speculate, considering Odo always had the same attitude towards authority, how the Cardassians never chose to kill him….

Tim Nikiforovs

So I think the problem with a lot of TNG's 2 parters, is that so much of their structure was built around "you better tune back in 3 months from now to see how this is resolved". But twice now DS9 has chosen a different route. Both In The Hands of the Prophets and The Jem'Hadar were standalone episodes that opened the door to a new plotline but didn't end on an actual cliff hanger. With that approach, they can place their 2 parter(or 3 parter) at the start of the following season, and instead of building it around the cliff hanger, they can just tell this larger story that actually justifies 2 parts. Which isn't to say TNG never did. BOBW, Redemption, and Chain of Command absolutely needed 2 parts. Birthright was just 2 separate episodes that they made overlap. I don't entirely hate season ending cliff hangers, and they can be done right, but there's a lot of merit to the way DS9 started S2 and 3. The Defiant does allow some stories to be told that otherwise couldn't, at least not convincingly with the roundabouts. The Maquis demonstrated how inadequate they were even against fairly minor opposition. As to why the Romulans would let Starfeet have a cloak, it's built off the precedent of information sharing they agreed to back in The Neutral Zone. The Romulans want to know about potential threats such as the Dominion as much as anyone. This way, they get any info Sisko and crew can gather about the Dominion, and they don't have to risk one of their own ships to do it. Bottom line, the Romulans let them have the cloak for purely selfish reasons. It just worked out for Starfleet too. Shame the ship got trashed in it's first outing. Regarding Sisko leaving Dax and O'Brien behind, I also like it. You can tell he kinda wanted to smack T'Rul for being so flippant about it, but then he thought about it, and pragmatic Sisko took over. He's justifying it later, telling himself they'll be fine, but he didn't like doing that. If they tried to rescue them, and there was no guarantee they could even get through the shield, then best case scenario they manage to get them back and run all the way back to the wormhole, and then wait for an invasion that'll probably kill all of them anyway. The entire ship and crew could just as easily be lost in the attempt and they both remain prisoners forever. If on the other hand Sisko is able to establish peaceful contact with the Dominion, then he can negotiate for their release. I think it's a great contrast to the "don't tell me the odds" approach. And fi8nally we discover Odo's origins. Will he find the answers he seeks, or more questions? Also weird they call it a dwarf planet when there's a clearly visible star in the orbital view. You'd expect a planet in deep space would be a ball of ice. I will say though, I like the Defiant's shuttle way more than those boxy little fuckers the Enterprise had. Solid start to the season.

paultardspambot .

One other thing it seems you guys missed. Part of the reason Odo was angry was he was still bothered by his demotion. This sets up the idea that he doesn't really belong with humanoids (especially as he thinks there is distrust of changelings) setting up his instinct and making him finding his people more impactful as the suggested idea is that maybe (as the "female" changeline, played by Salome Jens who also played the holographic image of the Preserver/Progenitor from TNG's The Chase, literally said "You're Home") he feels its confirmed he doesn't really belong amongst humanoids.

paultardspambot .

Tidbits from Memory Alpha- Eddington was originally conceived to be a character like Lt Primmin who could be a stand in for the Chief when he was away shooting movies. Ronald Moore was given the honor of naming the new ship to celebrate hm coming over to DS9 from TNG. He originally wanted to call it "Valiant" but was downvoted because they didn't want two ships with names starting with a "V" due to the heavy promotion of the upcming Voyager. So instead, he named it "Defiant" after the Constitution class ship from the TOS episode "The Tholian Webb" a name he had always been fond of and that fit the role the ship would have as a respone to the overwhelming Dominion threat. Moore launched a season long campaign to make the DS9 crew feel more like a family, and a few things in this episode were put in specifically to go in that dorection, such as the minor plot about Sisko and Jake feeling like DS9 had become home. We also see Sisko's growing personal attachement to being responsbile for Bajor, contrasted to his indifference in the beginning of the show. Sisko had been annointed as the Emissary in the pilot, but so far, other then sarcastic comments by Winn, we haven't really explored that. But Sisko is shown starting to feel like he has a person connection and responsibility for Bajor's fate. There was also a subtle moment when Quark says "good luck" to Sisko before he leaves the Defiant showing that Quark does care and is invested in what happens to these people, something perhaps he didn't feel towards the prior Cardassian occupants, other then how it affected his business prospects. Initially Rene Auberjonois was against Odo findind his people as he felt it would be the dramatic death of his character, but when it was explained to him how it went down he changed his mind and felt it deepened his character. DS9 was a show where the actors' input on their characters was taken seriously, and things were in fact changed at times because the actors didn't feel like certain things were authenetic to the character they were playing. This was particularly true for Nana Visitor and Avery Brooks. Armin Shimmerman started to identify with Quark's perspective, and felt like "Despite the Federation's lip service to their Prime Directive, which says they're not supposed to apply their standards to any culture's attitudes, it seems to me that this was another example of the Federation making fun of, taking advantage of, and ridiculing the Ferengi way. So kissing the scepter was a bit irksome" One thing you didn't notice was the slight change in Odo's design. At the request of Auberjonois, his look was changed to be more similar to the Odo from the mirror universe, with the collar. I personally agree, it was an improvement, as before his neck was too prominent. Writer Pamela Roller cites this episode as a shift in attitufe for the series, taking a more "definat" stance (I think she's talking about elements that would not have been part of Roddenberry trek, like the cloaking device, the warship, and the theme of a more military starfleet). The Karemma were mentioned as the race the Ferengi were trying to establish trade deals with through the Dosi but were not shown previously, hence the confusion as to their identity. In "The Maquis", Odod had previously referenced his frustration with getting blamed for security lapses but being hamstrung by Starfleet regulations.

paultardspambot .

I feel like this was sort of subtly suggested/explained in the flashback episode. Dukat had his reasons for choosing Odo. He was an outsider, Dukat respected him for not being afraid, he probably felt he would be personally useful for later on, plus he was a scapegoat if Dukat got blamed for something.

paultardspambot .

And it has four true decks, plus a smaller fifth "deck" for maintenance and engineering fumctions. Deck 1: Bridge, Captain's Ready Room, Transporter Room 1, upper engineering, crew quarters. Deck 2: Lower engineering, computer core, sickbay, mess hall, warp coils, crew quarters. Deck 3: Shuttlebays, cargo bays, antimatter storage, deuterium tanks, impulse engines. Deck 4: Navigational deflector housing, torpedo launchers, shuttlebay doors, main tractor beam emitter.

paultardspambot .

I'd like to hear the guys opinion on the Defiant, aesthetically and otherwise. I know there not as into the starship stuff, but surely they must have a general opinion on ships. Particulalry as the Defiant looks and feels different then prior Starfleet ships.

paultardspambot .

yeah, I had that too. I use movieorca and I had to set the episode a bit ahead of their watch to get it to sync up but there was definitely drift from the beginning when the times were synced up.

paultardspambot .

Moore was given the honor of naming the ship as a thing to celebrate coming over to DS9. The powers that be didn't want another ship whose name started with a "V" because Voyager was being so heavily promoted. "Defiant" was Moore's second choice and was indeed named after the Constitution class ship from "The Tholian Webb." The name is very fitting for its role.

paultardspambot .

well, again, since we know they've seen it, he actually got it right at one point. So I hope that waon't be a disappoinment in "seeing where it's going"

paultardspambot .

yeah, I get the guys are thinking purely in terms of production (oh they just recycled an existing model) but it's funny to think somebody would think that every ship in a fleet would be a unique design.

Better Watch Trek

Okay, thx for the hint, I'll try. However it may be an issue with the PAL DVDs ;)

paultardspambot .

its not about the writers being inconsistent, its different characters and different situations. This mission is of existential importance to the Federation because as of now they are incapable of stopping a Dominion invasion (not just at DS9, but generally as Dominion technology is clearly superior from what we've seen and we don't what intel they have, but we can assume they have a bit more then what's been said on screen from various ships and the Ferengi so they know the Dominion is ten times the size of the Federation- not a spoiler, never said explicitly but you can look at maps though I wouldnt recommend it at this point) Sisko is NOT making the same mistake the captain from the previous episode made. He would have to decloak, hope the phasers can not out the shields, beam up O'Brien and Dax, then fight off the Jem'hadar ships who are aware of their location. With the mission being ro find the founders and try to set up some kind of dialogue, that chocie would not only consign the mission to certian failure, it's unsure any of them would survive. We know there is plot armor so the entire crew isnt going to die, btu Sisko doesn't know that. In the very situation we see here, it's possible from his perspective that instead of boarding them to capture them as prisoners, they woukld have just kept firing and destroyed the ship.

paultardspambot .

We can't bust heads like we used to. But we have our ways. One trick is to tell stories that don't go anywhere. Like the time I caught the ferry to Shelbyville. I needed a new heel for m'shoe. So I decided to go to Morganville, which is what they called Shelbyville in those days. So I tied an onion to my belt, which was the style at the time. Now, to take the ferry cost a nickel, and in those days, nickels had pictures of bumblebees on 'em. 'Gimme five bees for a quarter,' you'd say. Now where were we...oh yeah. The important thing was that I had an onion on my belt, which was the style at the time. They didn't have white onions, because of the war. The only thing you could get was those big yellow ones and they were awful hard to slice. So, if you had an onion on your belt, you were in style. And that was the important thing to a kid, to be in style. The second thing was that I had a free ferry ride across the river. 'Cause if you walked onto the ferry with an onion on your belt, they thought you were a foreigner. And foreigners didn't have to pay because they weren't Americans yet and hadn't gone through naturalization or whatever it is. So I got on the boat with my grandfather and we crossed over into Shelbyville together. And we got off and went to the theater. And I remember that there were like five or six thousand people in that theater and everybody was having a great time. Everybody was drinking Coca-Cola and smoking cigarettes, which is what you did then; if you didn't smoke or drink Coca-Cola, people thought there was something wrong with you. And, you know, it was a great time. And I remember that we sat down and there were these two guys sitting next to us. And one of them had a cowboy hat on and the other one had a straw hat on. And they had these big, thick cigars in their mouths and everybody else around them was smoking cigarettes or drinking Coca-Cola and having fun. And the guy with the cowboy hat leaned over and said, "I tell you what." He said, "This is a great show. But it ain't nothing like my wife." I don't know what he was talking about but everybody laughed and I thought that was kind of funny. But I remember the second act, when this man came out on stage. He had a cape on and a mask over his face. And he was carrying a cane. He walked up to one of the audience members, who happened to be sitting in the front row, and he tapped him on the shoulder with his cane. And he said, "Hey buddy," he said, "I'm going to need some help from you tonight." And the guy looked up at him and said, "What do you mean?" He said, "I need some help from all of you tonight." And that's when I figured out what was going on. This man, who was dressed like a superhero and had a mask over his face, was actually a villain. He wanted to kidnap all of us and take us away with him. And that's when I started wondering why he needed our help to do it. I wondered if he couldn't do it himself. I mean, why did he need us? Maybe he didn't have any powers at all. Maybe his cane wasn't made of steel and titanium like I had thought; maybe it was just a regular old wooden cane like the kind that old people use to get around. And then it hit me. This man wasn't a superhero at all. He was just an old man who needed help getting around, but he thought that if he dressed up in a cape and mask, then people would be more likely to give him a hand. I was wrong about him being a superhero. But I was right about one thing: he wasn't going to be able to save us all by himself. I looked around at my friends, who were all still staring at the man in disbelief. I knew that if we didn't do something soon, then we would all be dead. As I was thinking about what to do next, the man turned around and started walking away from us. He didn't even try to help us or save us or anything like that; he just walked away like it was no big deal. Which was when I noticed the onion on his belt, which was the style at the time, and I realized that the man was just some guy who had been walking by and decided to stop for a second and look at us. He wasn't a superhero, after all; he was just some dude with an onion on his belt, like me, as it was the style at the time. Anywho, this villain needed to be stopped, but we couldn't bust heads like we used to...

paultardspambot .

yeah, she can be a bit... That thing where you express your opinions with snark and come off as a know it all. but the opinions are kind of basic

paultardspambot .

Yes, that's what he meant. The new ship concepts werent completed yet, but the defiant waa his puppy. Shelby was put in charge of general ship production, which we have to remember had been deliberately sabotaged by the Gillworms form "Conspiracy." Shelby and Sisko's mission was to prepare the Federation for a full Borg invasion and be able to effectively mobilize it's resources to mass produce warships. Turned out the Borg invasion never happened, but the timing was excellent considering the discovery of the Dominion. I like to think Q knew some things.

paultardspambot .

I would assume there's more then "one" earth fashion. Maybe the Bajoran double girl thinks it's cute.

paultardspambot .

I thought Australia was in the continent of "Oceania" which includes New Zealand

paultardspambot .

I don't understand why they are willing to watch the remastered versions of the 90s show but choose not watch the enhanced version of TOS which is a vast improvement over the original. What's the principle/logic there?

paultardspambot .

I feel like the guys should know, since they love Moore, he HATED Voyager, and gave an interview about it I pretty agree with completely, though I can't post that till the time when it was posted relative to where they are in the series. I think especially they are going to dislike it becauase the only thing it had going for it was occassional good sci fi plots, but basically zero consistent characterization because past a poin they didnt care and were just cashing a paycheck (the producers)

Evan Guthrie

At best his biggest idea is wrong, at worst he was right about only one of many. I think he'll be fine with it.

misti-step

i know exactly which moment you mean 😅😅

misti-step

yikes. maybe dont use the r word please?

Pixels At Dawn

On your comment about spoilers in the credits - I'm completely with you because as a UK viewer, we also didn't have things spoiled by promos etc. Star Trek was screened on the BBC which doesn't have ad breaks. So every episode was basically experienced as you guys are experiencing it - no breaks in the show and no ads before the show telling you everything that was going to happen. All the better for it too!

Chris Nunnally

It happens for me during the fade outs for commercials. The break lasts slightly longer on Paramount+, so I have to pause Patreon for a second or two.

Jill Barker

Loving the comments. I have been a trekker since the 1960s and it is fantastic to share in all this info that so many knowledgeable people are posting. In my younger days I attended Star Trek conventions in the U.K. throughout the 70s ,80s and 90s and met Leonard , Bill, Nichelle, Deforest , George and Jimmy Doohan. Also cast from TNG . My final outing was The Royal Albert Hall which included cast from TOS, TNG , DS9 and Voyager. I remember Avery Brooks has a brilliant singing voice. Patrick and Bill were hilarious . Such wonderful memories. I love the fact that Alex and Josh have reawakened my life long love for Trek . So much fun revisiting wonderful episodes again and shouting at the screen when I disagree with them. 🥰

SetsunaYuki

I can't wait for them to react to Part 2. Its going to be a great reaction.

Christian Sander

Man, love the direction you are thinking this story is heading in. :-D

Matchstick Jose

I am *so* interested to see whether Josh and Alex got "got" in part two. I think the second half is structured the way it is to literally try to distract the viewers with so much batshit stuff happening on the station, hoping you’re so invested (and baffled) at the crazy pace of events that you won’t have time to put it all together.

Numinous2019

The immediate post opening credits scene of part 2 always struck me as not lining up with what happened near the end of part 1. Even on a first watch this should set off suspicions.

Matchstick Jose

I almost think you're *supposed* to know something is going on, so you think, "Aha, I've beat you, show," which serves as a feint for the other, bigger reveal.

Numinous2019

Josh and Alex have already watched Part 2 in case anyone thinks I've indicated something I shouldn't have.

Steve Krautkramer

Love the intro for this one on the shirts, and glad to see DS9 fired back up! Missed yall!

DG

It's good to see TA enjoying the show Moore

reactive1

You asked what class of ship is the Defiant. It’s the Defiant class in that it’s a prototype with an NX designation similar to the Excelsior which had an NX designation in ST3 and then by ST6 had a NCC designation and was the first ship in the Excelsior class, which we saw several ships in TNG of the same class.

reactive1

DS9 isn’t alone in not being remastered like TNG was. Voyager wasn’t remastered either.

reactive1

I liked the small changes with S3 like the new combadges and Odo having a better look with the collar. I wasn’t crazy about Dax’ new hairstyle with this. They finally quit dressing Jake in kid pajamas and having him in decent looking clothes.

Ryan

I'm old enough to be a Counting Crows fan, and I once read an interview with Adam Duritz where he said something like, "If you want to make a song about how much you love someone, you write about a poster on the wall in your room." The Sisko/Jake scenes here strike me that way. Figuring out where to put the wall art is the kind of mundane little moment a real father and son would have together and remember later.

Jeffrey P

I hope it's better than mine. I don't want to wait two years to watch another episode.

Joe J

"As the Space Station Turns", lol. Space soap opera...that's what Josh & Alex love. They got a ship...so now more missions off the station...smart move there!

Joe J

They do use AI to "polish" up the episodes, lol.

Matchstick Jose

I recall one of the writers saying that they realized that, for Sisko, after two seasons, the show had made it seem like DS9 was still “just a bad job” for him. You can see the conscious effort to start changing that here, with Sisko realizing the station feels like home and his growing desire to protect Bajor and its people. I do recall fans at the time complaining that Odo’s aggression felt over the top, but I always felt like his job as security chief is literally his whole life. So for him to be demoted, essentially, and then for Odo to react by immediately quitting just had to make him feel like his whole world was coming apart at the seams. Like, he’s close to emotional breakdown territory even before he starts feeling some instinctual pull he can’t control.

Birusan

Voyager wasn't on Blu-ray and isn't likely to be either. TNG, DS9 and Voyager were shot on film, but then post-production was done entirely on 480 tape. They won't remaster the film elements of DS9 because there's no finished film stock to remaster. The TNG remaster took a few years and a giant budget with a full time staff essentially redoing all post-production on TNG; opticals, editing, overlays, etc. But this was 2007. Blu-ray was never anything more than a drop in the bucket for the projected income. Local television affiliates were hungry for HD content and Seinfeld, Frasier, MASH, Cheers and TNG were the syndicated shows that brought in the largest pricetags. $80 for a blu-ray wasn't going to make a difference. $30,000 for a six month contract to a locaal station in Boston was renewable income on a large scale. We all love DS9 and Voyager, but the demand in 2007-2008 was a tiny fraction of the demand from local affiliates that TNG had. The TNG remaster was worth the years of manpower and millions of dollars to recoup that cost. And we were lucky. TNG is on streaming now in a package with all Trek; and it's in-house for Paramount+. Paramount isn't going to spend years remastering DS9 for the same number of P+ subscriptions. It's sadly not an issue of better remastering tech. The show would have to be reconstructed mostly from scratch. I would give my left kidney, but there's a difference between a Lego set and a multi-year commitement with $0 ROI, sadly.

Derek Locke

On two-parters, I know that in TNG, most, if not all, of the two parters were not written together as a single story. Part one was written and filmed, then they had to go back later and figure out how to end it. I don't think that was the case here?

Derek Locke

I see what you did there!

Numinous2019

The Search, although written by different writers, was conceived in overall story terms before Part 1 went to production stage.

Doug

I had no idea about the Trekmovie article until you mentioned it in the intro, that's neat

Matchstick Jose

One interesting bit of trivia, Robert Hewitt Wolfe and Ira Behr were going to write both parts, but Wolfe was on his honeymoon, so Ron Moore ended up getting the assignment even though he had just joined the show. Fans were like: “Of course Ron Moore would put a ship on the show!” (You know, like Moore could just unilaterally make that decision on a whim!)

David

Think it's a Paramount+ discrepancy; matched up fine with my DVD copy.

Matt Everkoul

One thing I always appreciated about the Defiant bridge set was how much it looked like the original series bridge, with the various stations around the command chair in a circle, unlike the Galaxy-class bridge with the horseshoe design.

Martin Bohnet

At the speed cirroc was growing back then it's a miracle they could use a costume for two episodes in a row.

John M.

I like the intro discussion: relaxed Alex and standoffish Josh. Wait, is this a Star Trek character swap? Transporter malfunction?

Craig

Great reaction, enjoyed the T-shirts!

KingPin124

Let me know how it goes, please. Netflix was always in sync for me, but Prime is always a few seconds out after commercials. I need to know if DVD’s are worth it.

Loot Narsbaar

20 mins of DS9 has already been brought into HD. It can be done. Paramount chooses not to because they are salty the TNG blu rays did not sell well. I think someday, some decade, it will happen when the process becomes cheaper.

Martin Bohnet

I'm more of an Ira guy (yes, I've even been seen with a purple beard on occasion), never noticed an influence I'd attributed to Moore. The problematic one for me always was Berman. But maybe in the end the tension between Ira and Berman was the right mixture for DS9.

KingPin124

I was scrolling to see if someone posted this. Ya, quark and the nagus had a little huddle in that episode and they name the Karemma as a member of the Dominion that they can go to purchase 100,000 vats of wine when red-faced Dosi can’t supply it.

Birusan

And those twenty minutes were great. To my point. TNG wasn't like TOS (which had it's own smaller issues) or Seinfeld. Everyone on Earth could buy the complete series on Blu-ray and it wouldn't cover a fraction of the cost. Blu-ray was never the end goal. Syndication rights were. Blu-ray was just a nice little cherry on top. To your second point. There is no "process" to become cheaper. There is no master to put through a "process". There is no film reel of DS9 to put through a process. Tone can be misread in text, so no anger or sarcasm. Only respect aimed at you. But these are just objective facts. An HD master needs an HD source. And there simply never has been an HD source for DS9 or VOY.

Target Audience

I believe unification they actually filmed Part 2 first because of Nimoy’s schedule

Numinous2019

Good points. Behr and Berman would have needed to give the production designers and special effects team enough advanced notice of any new regular sets and models, etc. A major new show element is not something done on the back of an envelope, or at short notice. It all has to be budgeted for as well.

Numinous2019

Yes, that's right. Forgot about that one, since TNG's 2 partners are iconic for being season bridge's.

Ian Meyers

Yeah funny enough the TNG VHS tapes are organized in production order, so Unification II comes before Unification I according to production codes and the tapes.

Matchstick Jose

Both Ron and Rene had a deal where they could move to Voyager after one year if they were unhappy on DS9.

Loot Narsbaar

Was that footage not remastered from the original film? What am I not understanding? The process would be the same as TNG (except DS9 was filmed as safe for wide screen) I’ve heard the biggest hurdle would be re-doing the CGI special effects. Though a few years ago some of them were found to have been saved at HD quality.

Forbidden Donut

The thing I don't understand is: If you're Paramount, why not explore it as a "GoFundMe" style campaign? Meaning figure out the cost it would take to do it properly, tell the fans what that number is, give them X months to raise it, and if the fans give it to them, then they move forward with a commitment to doing it. Then it costs Paramount little to nothing, and we finally get what we've wanted since the TNG remaster. Do the same thing for Voyager. I bet both would have a great chance of getting the money donated by fans.

Matchstick Jose

I believe the quote from Ira to Rick Berman was basically: "We need a ship. Doesn't have to be a big ship, but we need a ship."

Loot Narsbaar

Maybe they don’t want to set a precedent, or maybe they don’t want to share ownership or profits with fan investors. At some point they’ll have to do something as tvs continue to improve. There’s one episode that has been put on blu ray in SD that looks amazing compared to the dvds. So at least that’s something.

Gary Willig

What really elevates Deep Space 9 is the use of runtime to explore the characters. Many of the best scenes in the series were written because the showrunners realized the episode wasn't long enough to fill the runtime. But unlike many shows, even other Star Trek shows, the scenes that get written to fill that missing runtime are not filler, but essential. One of the most famous and franchise-defining scenes in all of Star Trek is one such DS9 scene.

Hvgunwilltravel

Just some gee-whiz info. While 'Captain' is a rank, it is also a title given to whoever is in command of a ship, regardless of the rank they hold. In the US Navy, it is common to see Commanders or even Lieutenant Commanders serving as Captains of smaller vessels, patrol craft, and mine sweepers. JFK was only a Lieutenant Junior Grade when he captained the PT-109 in WWII.

International Man of Leisure

The designed standard crew complement of the Defiant is about 50 crewmen. It can hold a max of 150 crewmen for a short term.

Paul

You know Josh, you say it tongue in cheekily but there really isn't anyone else diving into Star Trek (or even most shows) as deeply as you guys do. It's why we're here, even if there are occasional chaotic opinions. Solid start to S3!

International Man of Leisure

I don't think I've ever seen it brought up, but people may not notice the way characters are listed differently between TNG and DS9. TNG lists them strictly by character names. "Patrick Stewart as Jean-Luc Picard". DS9 lists them by rank & name. "Avery Brooks as Commander Sisko". As a military guy, I always preferred DS9's listing convention. Because that's how we do it. I also think it demonstrated more respect and lended more gravitas to the characters. Just my opinion.

River Acheron

Hmm. I wonder why I never came across this issue before then. This was the first time it happened here. I have had this issue with Netflix and another patreon-watcher with The Sandman, but not with paramount+ Eh, even with the blurred picture, its easy to readjust now and then, but it's still annoying lol

Scarpad’s Domain

what is thier obsession with the Bonding and Lessons two of the most middleining Episodes IMHO

Loot Narsbaar

To each their own. Go back and watch the reactions.

Nolan

Ahh, always nice to get a reaction in before work.

DRedd

I often don't like y'all's opinions, but I often like the way you formulate your opinions even if I disagree (sometimes vehemently disagree) with them. Which is why I'm here. I don't watch reactions for the sake of hearing my own opinions regurgitated back at me. I watch them to vicariously relive parts of my youth now long lost to the past. But also to hear interesting thoughts on media I care about.

Paul

Bonding is solid, nowhere near my #1. But Lessons, I've grown to absolutely gush over it since seeing their reaction.

Carsten Tassilo Gräbe

There's really nothing to suggest they couldn't all transform together. And we have super space life forms. Could she possibly recreate the Crystal Being, the Jellyfish (Farpoint), or even the Super Bio-ship (Tin Man)? (Please do not reply if it contains spoilers. Pure speculation based on what we have seen so far.)

Bert

Why did I have it in my head that part two would be up today. I assumed that but I don't think you actually said it

Joe J

Thanks for that, because I had completely forgotten why I was here watching these two knuckleheads. I usually just watch pretty lady reactors...😆

Skullman8942

Part 2 will be up on Saturday (early access on Friday)

#MaxwellDidNothingWrong

Decent AI upscaling by fans already exists, and in a few years either the studios will do it perfectly with fully realized tech -- or fans will

Etman

Troi's face on Alex's shirt at 8:30 timestamp looks exactly like South Park Caitlyn Jenner lol. Same squinty right eye and slanted thin mouth Also the irony of Alex saying "thats the most ridiculous shirt" about Jake while Troi's face is lookin like that on his shirt

Tim Nikiforovs

I knew they'd appreciate it once it stopped doing the Behr minimum

Tim Nikiforovs

And Enterprise started in the HD era so no remaster needed

Tim Nikiforovs

Insert the Thanos "Fine, I'll do it myself" meme

Marko

Yes I don't have anything against her having whatever opinion she wants, she's perfectly in her rights. But it's just the vibe she emits.

harrypothead42024

Why not? idiot is ok, so is moron. When I say retard I don't think about someone facing life with a disorder or on any spectrum, that is who you are thinking of. I'm using it in a very normal and applicable sense. It's not a slur or the equivalent of the "N" word or the "F" slur. It's just another word. Your bigotry is your problem. So, maybe don't try and assuage your guilt by trying to limit the way I speak.

harrypothead42024

people like what They like. The Bonding isn't my cup, but I love Lessons. It's one of those situations where the only way to be wrong is to tell someone else that they are.

Derek Orr

Some fans use AI to upscale yes …but they have not done any official releases from the studio that are upscaled

Derek Orr

It’s far closer to a runabout size than the saucer of a galaxy class

Derek Orr

I’m actually surprised they even identified it as looking like a starfleet ship when it appeared

Derek Orr

lol that will be like 6 years from now by the time they get to Lower Decks

Derek Orr

Ugh I hate the whole Star Wars pew pew pulse phasers

Derek Orr

What did the actress do to you?

Derek Orr

I mean they also did not like Ron Moores “anti Voyageur” Battlestar

Skye Maidstone

The Defiant introduction was as badass as I remember. Shame it gets it's ass kicked in it's first battle but I remember those phasers looking so amazing and they still hold up all these years later. Banger of an episode.

sword bard

"Giant floating pirate ship made of Odos" was not a mental image I expected to learn from this react but I'm very glad I did.

Todd “Canuck” Schmuck

To be fair to the Defiant, it had main power down hoping to stay hidden from the Jem Hadar again like the first encounter(In D&D terms, the Dominion had initiative/preemptive strike at the start of battle with the Defiant’s shields down).

Tim Nikiforovs

I think it's perhaps the best bridge in a practical sense. The captain's chair is far enough back that he has all the bridge stations in his field of view. Also having those 2 large panels beside the captain's chair would have way more functionality than Picard's little keypads. Just a great layout for keeping an eye on everything.

Tim Nikiforovs

TNG intro also lists rank, but includes first names(except Data and Worf obviously). DS9 only does so with Jake, since "Cirroc Lofton as Sisko" would probably be confusing. "There's 2 actors playing the same guy??"

Marko

Nothing at all, I don't have anything against her, or wish her ill. I just don't like her vibe based on my impression of what I've seen of her. Although that impression is limited and I could entirely think differently if I knew her or know more than I do. And I could change my opinion in the future as it is not set in stone. But for now it is what it is.

International Man of Leisure

I stand corrected! It's actually Voyager that leaves off the ranks, except for Janeway. She gets hers.

Just another Red Shirt

You guys are doing fine. There’s a lot of people that acoustically obsess over Star Trek and have for years. Many of those people don’t understand the love can be expressed with harsh words and criticism.

cricketlenny

My first time watching this series was by myself, so it’s endlessly engaging to get other’s expectations and predictions compared to mine at the time. I thought Odo was never going to find his people, so this was a big turn.

Some Guy

Upscaling is fundamentally deeply limited. You have to put in detail that wasn't already there automatically and that's going to be inconsistent

Some Guy

Star trekkin Across the universe On the Starship Enterprise Under Captain Kirk

StealthMomo

Alex: @1:20 "I think I have a pretty good idea of where this is going." 😂😂😂

Todd

I thought you two would enjoy this episode just because it was so character heavy. I think the recap was necessary because this is reminding the audience what happened last season and how the characters are still reacting. Also, I think it helps build tension a bit more and then everything goes south. I also like that the main cast all had something to do in this episode and the cast of supporting characters expands even further with the addition of Eddington and T'Rul. DS9 really has the most developed supporting cast of any of Trek shows, and there are plenty more to come.

Nolan

How big is the Defiant? Still WAY bigger than the Millenium Falcon.

Nolan

My DVDs are fine. I believe the issue is that @Better alluded to being German, which means he likely has Region 2 DVDs, which are formatted in PAL which runs at like 23 frames per second, or something, rather than NTSC which runs at 24 fps.

Better Watch Trek

Yep. Its the PAL DVD with the frame difference. My fix is to set 0.96 speed in my dvd player

Numinous2019

The Defiant bridge set was problematic to film on. The production design team and the filming crew didn't have enough discussion prior. It was too cramped to easily adjust camera angles and the lighting had to be physically swapped out for different ship operating modes.

Couch Captain

Those Marina Sirtis shirts are incredible.

Matchstick Jose

One little moment I have never liked in this episode is Sisko insisting Quark kiss the scepter of the Grand Nagus. It’s just, IMO, way out of character for Sisko to take so much joy in basically humiliating Quark like that, and undercuts their nice moment of mutual respect on the Defiant bridge later (which does actually seem to be paying off the bond they formed in the season 2 finale).

Loot Narsbaar

Most of the upscaling I’ve seen makes everything look worse. I’d rather have the quality of episode on blu ray I mentioned if I had to choose

Laura Thornley

DS9's Best of Both Worlds. For good and ill.

Phenomenon (Doo - Dooo - Dah - Doo - Doo)

My first episode viewing as a Patron member! Fear not -- the only thing that would ever drive me into the arms of another reaction channel would be if Alex starts bleaching his hair again Don't..... don't do that Please

Morgan Garrett

Agreed, they should have just let him walk off, or have him take the staff after kissing it at least.

Morgan Garrett

I kept looking at Alex's stomach throughout the episode for an ever-changing and amusing mutation of Troi's face.

Phenomenon (Doo - Dooo - Dah - Doo - Doo)

The USS Yamato appeared twice in TNG. The first time was as an apparition created by Nagilum in "Where Silence Has Lease" to confuse the **** out of the crew (particularly Worf -- ONE RIKER! ONE BRIDGE!) The other was in "Contagion" when it had the Ikonian program uploaded to it's computer core which caused it to go *KABOOM*

Martin Bohnet

Actually, he starts enjoying to humiliate Quark right in Emissary...

Numinous2019

Armin Shimerman was very unhappy about that for the same reason. He felt it was (as you said) humiliating to Quark. He performed it reluctantly.

Numinous2019

It's possible that Josh and Alex, being relatively unfamiliar with TV from that era, had a stronger reaction to those 2 TNG episodes for that exact reason. I don't rate either episode as being top tier, but 'Lessons' does benefit from the accumulated experience of the writers and producers up to that point in the series. It is a solid episode. Both episodes however don't do anything exceptional with their approaches to the stories.

paultardspambot .

Their deal is basically that they let Quark commits crimes without consequence and in exchange bully him into whatever they want.

paultardspambot .

based on Odo I think there's a limit to how much mass they can absorb from the environment.

paultardspambot .

I've seen people do ship heavy enhancements on youtube that look cool. It may not be what you guys are talking about but it could be done. I feel the show largely holds up as it is as opposed to TOS which really benefited from the updated effects.

Shanelle

Welcome to our Great Link!

Shanelle

Agreed. It makes me feel awkward every time. I did hear Armin speak on it. Its possible I’ve taken on his disdain for the act.

Back Flip Bet

The guy who plays quark hated that and talked about it on the Delta Flyers podcast

ryler05

They are not in the DS9 category I didn't even know they were reacting to them yet.

Carsten Tassilo Gräbe

@Gamma Quadrant Do you mean if they don't transform but remain liquid, or what are you getting at? A little more text might help to understand your reasoning.

DonMiguel

You might piss us off sometimes, but we love ya and aren't going anywhere. Like the TNG crew, we're family!

Back Flip Bet

Strangely I never get alerts for the episode reactions but I get bombarded by their 13 episode ranking posts with emails and notifications a week.

jon bolton

Finally, i'm back with you guys. I love The Search, both parts get A from me.

jon bolton

It's interesting how you mentioned loving the conference room moments in TNG, because Marina has said those were her favourite moments in TNG, having them all sat there together. Love your Troi shirts btw!

Cranky Grandma

There’s Klingons on the starboard bow! (Song is stuck in my head now)

Prof Moff

DS9 sex scoreboard catch up version No scores that I saw (remember I am only catching up with the short versions) The sex score board Quark 4 Jadzia 2 Chief 1 Keiko 1 Odo 1 Kira 1 Bashir 1