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UNCUT - Defiant (DS9 S3E9) | Star Trek Journey 338 (Patreon)

Published:
2026-01-30 15:00:23
Edited:
2026-01-31 14:41:36
Imported:
2026-09
Tags:
stj

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Reality Strikes

1 hour and 40 minutes for this episode???? Wow! Y’all must have had a lot to say. Lol

misti-step

expecting TWO pops this episode!!

Summer

I do feel a scene of Miles contacting Geordi and learning about the other Riker was needed, great reaction

Jonathon Tsagris

I love how the first reaction wasn’t ‘Riker’s on Deep Space 9’ but rather ‘Riker’s going to fuck Kira’

Collin Freeman

Great 1st pop, guys. That's got to be at least in the top 3.

Collin Freeman

The 2nd pop was at least as good as the first, if not better. I predict significant meme proliferation for both of those 2 pops.

Matchstick Jose

Alex just managed to nicely mimic something I've noticed online for decades. I swear I’ve seen some version of the “What was Riker’s problem with O’Brien?” post at least once a month for the last 30 years on various online forums ever since this episode aired. Given that it’s confused some people for that long, I do wonder if maybe Ron Moore should have just been blatant with it and included a line of the chief saying, “Oh, *that’s* why he said that to me” and just spelled it out. O’Brien is the one person Tom can’t have an extended conversation with because he can’t bullshit that much personal history with one guy. Tom had to get O’Brien off that bridge immediately or the whole plan might get blown.

Keith S

Thank you for popping the way I expected you to. Made my day. I had no idea that the Marquis woman was from preemptive stike. Did you notice that the obsidian order agent was played by the same woman that played Rachel Garret in Yesterday's Enterprise?

Jonathon Tsagris

I'm also thrilled they didn't spoil it in the credits - you'll note they just said 'special guest star Jonathan Frakes'

Jonathon Tsagris

Imagine if they'd managed to get Ro back to play one of the Maquis though

Marcus BlueSky

Great reaction guys. I was literally laughing out loud, when it came to both reveals. Side note: I just noticed his first reveal comes at time code 3:00min.... number 3 like about Riker in "Cause and effect". The episode which you just discussed and Alex getting the $333 cheque from his mom for Xmas? What's going on here? Thank you for giving us the full discussion tour with an amazing 1 hour 40min! Great! PS: Also shoutout to the change of your computer visuals when "entering" the Defiant. Love those details.

Matchstick Jose

Imagine “Jonathan Frakes as Thomas Riker"! Alex would have been so mad he would have vibrated right through the floor.

Collin Freeman

For me, watching this for the first time in 1994, I popped almost as much as you did when it was revealed Riker was Thomas and not Will. I suspect I was not the only one.

Summer

That was it exactly I was worried about, glad you liked it, as for torpedos, photon torpedoes are great, quantum torpedoes I guess have more nitrus or something. We don’t really know either.

Fedora The Explorar

That Malcolm Mcdowell Dr Loomis joke made me laugh. Mcdowell really hammed it up in that one.

Summer

Seeing Riker when the movie just came out, I hadn’t considered that his being Thomas might actually help that

Harry Broos

The biggest reveals for me so far are McCoy and Scotty in TNG, Denise Crosby as Sela, the Blood Oath Klingons and this one

Collin Freeman

Quantum torpedoes vs photon torpedoes: quantum torpedoes are better. There's your explanation.

Matchstick Jose

I actually like the Sisko-Dukat half of this story more than the Riker-Kira half. I just feel like there’s not enough time to really dig into Thomas’ psyche for it to really land for me. It all makes sense, but it feels very surface level. Kind of wish they had made this a two-parter so there would have been a chance to really flesh out everything and build and deepen the Kira-Riker dynamic.

Jonathon Tsagris

Quantum torpedos are just the next thing after photon torpedos on the torpedo tech tree. The federation's unlocked them now. You get a sense of how powerful the Defiant is when Riker was perfectly happy to go up against 3 Cardassian warships and was expecting it to be an easy fight - Pretty sure there was an episode of TNG where it was established that the Enterprise was evenly matched by 2 of them. And the defiant of course being a tiny little ship compared to the Enterprise.

Keith S

I read an article discussing Quantum torpedos. It explained that they were more powerful than Potons. It also explained why but i cant remember that. I think this is the first time they are ever mentioned.

Scott Woodward

I really like this episode. It has to pass up a few opportunities at more character depth (in my opinion) for Riker or Sisko/Dukat to strike that important balance between all the stories it wants to tell. In a big way this is a sequel to Second Chances but also a soft sequel to The Maquis since Sisko and Dukat practically end up right where they left off with that episode working together and verbally sparing. I think they did a good job of finding the best moments to showcase the characters and the story. Could have been a richer story in one element, but not without sacrificing some of the others.

Scott Woodward

1:29:58 Basically Photon Torpedoes blow stuff up really well. Quantum torpedoes blow stuff even weller. That's the simple way to think of it- the next level of weaponry when it comes to starfleet missiles.

Zenlike Creature

I've been looking forward to this one. I think I may have reacted the same way as you guys did when I first saw this. It was a long time ago, though. I was not disappointed by your reaction. Twice. Gave me chills ;) Good to see that you're keeping track of previous story elements. This show does like to dip back and pick up story threads and plots.

Ryan

"I love Ron Moore" = most of the rest of this series. "All our institutions have cracks in the armor" is a close second. There are a bunch of moments dotted through this series that I'm super excited for you to get to, because DS9 cares about franchise history and so do you. The double pop this episode was epic — exactly how I felt when this aired and now I get to feel that way again. What a great Friday treat.

Prof Moff

you guys SHOULD HAVE KNOWN it wasn't Riker (I mean Will). He and Kira didn't bang the first night and the sex scoreboard did not show up on DS9

Phenomenon (Doo - Dooo - Dah - Doo - Doo)

They're more powerful than photon torpedoes because they're quantum. QUANTUM, man! QUANTUM!!! If you need something to be your sci-fi catch-all, you can't go wrong with quantum

Ian Westcott

I'll admit I burst out laughing when the instant Riker appears, Alex screams "RIKER'S GOING TO FUCK KIRA, OH MY GOD!!"

Evan Guthrie

Definitely a good episode. And logically I can see the character development for Thomas Riker. But I still just feel like it's a waste of a good character. He deserved better from the writers.

Libertu Pastor Bey

The way that Thomas gaslights O'Brien was a big clue to the fact that it wasn't the Will we know, even though O'Brien had departed for DS9 by the time of TNG's Second Chances. Brilliant episode overall. Also, you will find in due time that Paramount focusing on the TNG movies and Voyager, as well as their network UPN (now the CW) would, both for the most part and in the long run, work in DS9's favor.

River Acheron

I gotta say, the fact that the ones I wanna watch the most ALWAYS without fail pop up when I'm on an 9-hour shift makes my day sooo much longer with anticipation. *shakes fist* But seriously I can't wait to get outta here and check it out.

Darren

Big fan of this episode - Sisko/Dukat and Kira/Riker scenes are great and the world building is fun too. Easy S for me

River Acheron

We can chalk it up to Tommy Boy reasearching the Enterprise's personal files etc. So I wouldn't call it a show oversight or anything.

River Acheron

Makes you wonder what's better than QUANTUM. Multiversal Torpedo? Reality Torpedo? God Mode?

Jack Molitor

Not sure if it’s mentioned in the discussion, but Tricia O’Neill, the Cardassian Obsidian Order agent, played Captain Rachel Garret of the Enterprise C in Yesterday’s Enterprise. Fun little trivia.

Phenomenon (Doo - Dooo - Dah - Doo - Doo)

What I loved most about the opening credits was that Jonathan Frakes was listed, but not as who. It just said "Special Guest Star Jonathan Frakes". Someone finally figured out not to blow the surprise beforehand

NoMoreWiire

My head-canon is that Thom's been taking Ro's eggs for a spin in the Badlands ever since pre-emptive strike.

Reality Strikes

Wow! I never thought about the chief situation. Great insight. You guys are brilliant!!!

Drake

its getting rly gooooooooood

Duncan McDonald

One of those reactions where the conversation before the actual episode is at least as entertaining. "I wonder if we'll see Next Gen appear in DS9"... great episode.

Doctor Pulaski

This reaction was everything I wanted it to be. Now I can delete my Patreon account. (jk)

Phenomenon (Doo - Dooo - Dah - Doo - Doo)

I first saw this in 94 when I was in my mid-20s and could not figure out for the life of me why Riker was so pissed at the Chief. Mind you, I was drinking quite a bit back in those days and common sense wasn't as common as it should have been. The obvious didn't punch me in the face nearly hard enough for it to sink in until a few years later

Drake

season 4 5 6 7 are all bangers, better ratings every season 7 maybe best. doestn tom riker has all of wills memory? so he knew chief but not as good. chief would recognize it.

Scribe31oz

That reaction in the hook was brilliant. I was grinning when Josh mentioned Deanna. 🤣🤣🤣🤣💀

Matchstick Jose

I felt bad for Josh on the Inglorious Treksperts podcast when they asked him who his favorite TNG character was, and he said Troi. And one of the hosts responded (paraphrasing): “Are you serious? Or is that a joke answer?”

Summer

Frake’s face acting was great showing himself as Tom had to not know O’Brien but get away from him

Matchstick Jose

One little moment that always makes me laugh, why does Tom make mean/evil face when he shoots Kira? You would think he would be kind of sad about having to do that.

Scribe31oz

I love Deanna and so they can jump.

Timur Nersesov

Sisko is a professional. Not that he didn't care about Kira, he def did and did what he could to take care of her in the decisions...but his mission was bigger than any member of the team. It's the oath part. He's big on being a starfleet officer...you saw that in the pilot in his convo with Picard and how he subordinates his preferences to his duty.

Ryan

DS9’s impact is less about individual amazing episodes and more about really good episodes being elevated by all the established lore they’re drawing on. Even the B episodes in later seasons can hit like a truck with the weight of all these continuing plot threads behind them.

Jon1701

You watched Battlestar at the wrong time to fully appreciate Ronald D Moore. Wait until you’ve watched DS9 an Voyager chronologically and you will be ready to go back 👌🖖

Summer

Sorry I was vague, I did sort of jump to my point forgetting you guys might not remember what you said in a past episode

Better Watch Trek

wonderful reaction! :D I was attending a monthly trekdinner gathering at the time this aired, and boy, most of the others didn't watch DS9 because they were afraid that season 3 would consist only of dominion episodes...

River Acheron

Oh I got it. Extratransdimensional torpedos

Etman

"You're over worked and suffering from extreme stress and borderline exhaustion." I call that Wednesday.

tyranusfan

"V-O-Y-A-G-E-R...Voyager! Voyager 6!"

Jonathan

Tom was created before Riker was on the Enterprise so he hasn't met O'Brian

DthDisguise

There is no difference between Photon and Quantum Torpedoes. It's just a direct upgrade. I *think* the idea is that Quantum Torpedoes were made to fight the Borg because the Borg can't adapt to Quantum Torpedoes because "Quantum", but I don't remember if that was ever said in any of the shows/movies, or if it was just one of those "the writers made it up on the spot to answer a fan question" things.

Matchstick Jose

Since the Bridge Crew is probably going to be voting for Babylon 5 in the near future, just make sure you find a source where you can watch the recently remastered 4:3 versions of the show. Those look good. The CGI is fine, IMO, and you’ll get used to it. Under no circumstances, though, let anybody convince you to watch the 16:9 DVD set. The VFX shots were not redone for 16:9, and, instead, every shot featuring VFX is a zoomed-in reframing of the 4:3 picture. No bueno.

Jonathan Llyr

This is “Defiantly” going to be the first TA reaction that I’m going to watch twice. Very entertaining gentlemen!

JordanK1991

I think it's safe to say, based on everything that was said in your reaction, you guys are NOT ready for how utterly insane & awesome this show gets. This is literally just the beginning. As Eris stated in the finale of season 02, "You have no idea what's begun here." So glad to be a part of this journey with both of you, and my fellow Patreons!

Tim Nikiforovs

I didn't even notice the computer graphics change. Nice detail.

Mark Plemmons

DS9 writers really benefit from the suits' focus on VOY, since they were mostly left alone to do their own thing rather being under stricter network control.

Aaron Wells

To nerd out for a moment... Photon torpedoes use a basic matter/antimatter warhead. Quantum torpedo warheads derived their energy release from exploiting the zero-point effect. Thus the "quantum". To be fair, weapons of this sort would in real life be blowing up entire planets... Not these wimpy little poofs and pops we get on screen. 😆

Aaron Wells

BSG is not funny. It's not going to get funny. Since it's more about the destruction of characters and relationships than the building of them... I think of BSG as the anti-Target Audience show.

Aaron Wells

TNG arguably had the best individual episodes. DS9 had the best overall plot arc and character development. TNG enhanced the 1960s formula. DS9 elevated Trek to large scale space opera.

Aaron Wells

My favorite character in all of Trek is Garek. People looking me sideways. Doesn't matter. Garek fucks.

Numinous2019

In retaliation for Generations killing off Kirk , DS9 has taken Riker hostage. It doesn't matter which Riker, we've got him. So no more reskless abandon with TOS, TNG. You've been warned.

The Ninth Doctor

In universe, photon torpedoes use antimatter as their explosive material. Quantums use zero point energy (a real sciency thing) for a much greater "bang". Similar to the step-up from atomic bomb (kilotons of TNT) and hydrogen bombs (megatons of TNT) I think.

TC Green

“We’re not expecting this thing to happen…” they say right before watching an episode where that thing happens. I’m ready to buy into the theory you guys are somehow changing the past by predicting what will happen next.

Mike Rogers

What I notice now is how usually when there is a guest like this from another Star Trek show, they credit it as "Jonathan Frakes as Commander William Riker". But here they just credit "Jonathan Frakes"

Numinous2019

In terms of Sisko not outright stating he wants Kira back safely.....Sisko is trying to stop the situation rapidly escalating beyond a Maquis attack on Cardassian territory/forces into a full blown Cardassian conflict with Starfleet. He has his priorities straight and he will be indirectly trying to ensure Kira survives as well.

Worf and Riker Ride Again

Riker, Ro and Kira in the same scene?! That's an insane love triangle right there

Ryan K

Y'all need to play the lottery.

Naglfarius

A perfect Episode. With Duet and Whispers the best Episode so far. The dialouges are *chef's kiss*, the tension is steady and the Story umpredictable. A Banger of a Banger

Jon1701

I pretty much disagree with everything you just wrote. But we are both entitled to our opinions so all the best to you. 🖖

Forbidden Donut

When it's working for you like this, does it flip from "Oh, no, the plot!" to "Hell, yeah, the plot!" ?

Jason Aud

Haha this was another why it was a long week from Generations, was looking forward to this one! The double reveal haha, good episode! Particularly good after the intro discussion hahaha. "Haha got'em!" The thing you talk about too about the episodic/arc....one of the reasons I love DS9 is the arcing story that comes into play but like you say it also manages to work pretty well just from enjoyable episodes, balances the two nicely. Also Starship Mine, different woman. Difference between Lee Nalas was he was just imprisoned unjustly....or because they wanted to so breaking him out/bringing it to light was bad for the Cardassians. Thomas got a "light" sentence in their system and for actions he actually did...so less justifiable for them to break him out I think without a whole hubbub. Little tangent but since Nalas was mentioned comparitively.

Forbidden Donut

Still waiting for the Defiant to be a beast? Didn't this episode make it pretty clear it's one of the single most powerful ships around? They say something like that, and you see how worried Dukat is that the Maquis have it, and they also say/heavily imply that it could have gone like 1v9 and won if the Obsidian Order ships hadn't piled on.

Naglfarius

oh no, you got the Plot of Voyager! -.-

#MaxwellDidNothingWrong

I'll say it again, Babylon 5 has to be earned. The CGI does not hold up. A lot of the casting, acting, writing, directing, is just objectionably bad. But if you can get through the bad, and stay locked in, there are other actors, writing, moments, scenes, episodes and arcs will come out of no where and be oasis' of absolute excellence often out of no where. I don't know if a younger-ish audience can enjoy it long enough to get it, if the pay offs are big enough, but boy is it going to be interesting to be along for that foray when you guys do eventually get there.

Numinous2019

Josh & Alex's opinion of the Defiant might get an upgrade before season 3 is over......I'm sure you know what I'm referring to.

Scarpad’s Domain

and you noticed the credit did'nt say Jonathan Frakes as William T Riker in the credits

Naglfarius

crazy, i think the acting is the best Part ob B5, especially the Alien Main Cast.

ShazD

I had no idea this was our first time seeing quantum torpedoes.

Forbidden Donut

I just recently, finally, got around to checking it out. I'm in early season 2. It's been very hit and miss for me, and it looks and feels cheaper than 90s Trek (effects and sets), but I'm liking it fine. Wish I loved it, but maybe later. Some really good stuff sprinkled in though.

Jason Aud

Being a Trek fan when DS9/B5 came about the choice was obvious, remembering back to all the comparison accusations of copying etc. Also seeing B5 from the outside as you say not holding up as well or looking cheap I just didn't give it a chance then. Later I caught a random episode on channel flipping and again wasn't doing it for me and dismissed it. Eventually blind bought the DVD's, first season took awhile to get me but going into S2 I was on board.....turns out that episode that I dismissed or wasn't doing it for me was "War Without End" which finally watching in context was awesome! I just pulled out season one the other day and was thinking of a rewatch, debating picking up the blu rays. Wonky here and there for sure and the CGI but after a time it's just what it is when the show is good and great!

Vexx

This went about as expected. I love that DS9 respects previous lore so much. Glad you guys enjoyed it :)

AdmiralMurphy

I think I would have given this an A before rewatch, but I think there is just enough to push this ep to S

BN13

Seasons 3 and 4 are what make it all worth it. You can tell it's a low budget show and they had to work with what they had, to the point where I'm pretty sure I've seen the same accent lights they use inside an old 90s Chuck E Cheese. But the writing is amazingly good once they get all the pieces in place and let the main story unfold.

Aaron Wells

Claudia Christian hits and misses. L&G were both fantastic throughout.

Aaron Wells

The CGI is certainly a different aesthetic...but if I think of it as stylized, like an old video game, it starts to feel timeless. The Starfury is still the coolest looking scifi fighter craft imo. The whole concept is awesome.

Erik L Jerks

The scary part is that every time they alter the past, we don't notice it. It's always been that way for us.

reactive1

She also played the Klingon scientist in “Suspicions”.

JB

The CHIEF hadn't got his hands on the Defiant yet. We know he's been tuning her up since that first episode and it shows here.

reactive1

This may be my favorite DS9 episode, definitely in my Top 3.

jon bolton

That was the kind of reaction i expected from you seeing Riker😂. I'm sure i'm not the only person who's really looked forward to your reaction to this episode. I think this might be the most screen time Dukat has had in one episode, i'm surprised you didn't bring that up, i guess you had a lot of other things to discuss. This gets S from me!

JB

There are sciencey explanations in the technical manuals but story-wise just "better photon torpedoes".

Loot Narsbaar

We saw it fight once, while it did one shot a Dominion ship, overall it got its ass kicked. Then some people strongly implied it was invincible. I understand J&A’s confusion / annoyance.

jon bolton

I agree. I only last watched this quite recently and it was high A, now gone upto S for me.

Loot Narsbaar

Fun(?) fact. The writers had intended for the Defiant’s cloak was to have been FedExed back to Romulus after The Search. (Partially which is why it wasn’t discussed as an option in Second Skin) Then the script to this episode showed up and the writers decided the Romulans agreed to let Starfleet have it on extended loan.

Gary Willig

Quantum torpedoes are to photon torpedoes what the H-bomb was to the original fission A-bomb. The Enterprise D could fire 10 torpedoes at once, but it only had photons.

jon bolton

Tom had to get one last kiss in, he was about to go to a Cardassian labour camp, Kira knows better than anyone they aren't the friendliest guards lol.

reactive1

My Top 5 reveals: 1. Tasha Yar in “Yesterday’s Enterprise”. 2. Riker then Thomas Riker double reveal in “Defiant”. 3. Scotty in “Relics”. 4. Bones in “Encounter at Farpoint”. 5. Q in “Q Who”.

Deliximus

Been waiting for this feedback and reaction!

JoeMama47

I forgot that this is a good episode. I only remember the Riker twist, and that overshadows the rest of the episode in my memory.

Sainjl

Regarding the label terrorist: in 2026, I think a lot Americans have come to understand that to be just a label given by a state to its enemy. Nelson Mandela was on the terror watch list until 2008. But a show from the 90s can refer to this label in unsophisticated ways, like in this episode. Which is fine, it’s a quick shorthand. From what you’ve said in the past, I think you get that the distinction. But still fail to understand that this label would mean nothing to Bajorans, like the label terrorist means nothing to people in other countries. It’s not a black and white term, because it’s not used in black and white ways.

Sunny

😂 this intro, I’m so excited ❤️ I’m glad you guys are committed to blind watches and honesty or else I’d think you were messing with us.

JoeMama47

I assume that Tom knew O'Brien would be hard to fool so he had that line planned. He was just surprised to see him in that exact moment.

Target Audience

No term is really used in black and white ways, that doesn’t change the definition of the term. I agree governments can use the term incorrectly. They do all the time. Ultimately, definitions are decided on by society. Those definitions can change. IMO, in 2026 the definition of terrorist is still fitting to what it says, however if society decided that definition should change, then it would change. This is a 24th century fictional world, and that is how they use the word, therefore I think using that word the same way they do in their world makes sense, since the implication is the definition hasn’t changed.

Ricky

Quantum torpedoes = bigger boom

BN13

Yeah every time I watch this show, I only remember this as "the one with the Riker twist," and then I'm very pleasantly surprised by how great the episode is as a whole. This is probably in my top 5 of the season. Definitely an S.

Erik L Jerks

Fine might be a bit of an overstatement. They are pretty rough, but the writing on the show is so good that nearly all else if forgivable.

Mark Simonson

I really love this episode, but on this viewing it occurred to me that there's no way that having a duplicate Riker wandering around wasn't a potential security problem. Given that they use biometrics to identify people, I would think both Tom and Will would have to pass more than that, i.e., that the Starfleet security network would also factor in the current location of both Rikers or something. I think it boils down to the fact that the writers didn't think about security back then the way we do now after thirty years of the internet, dealing with phishing, identity theft, etc.

Sunny

Brilliant bit of social intelligence when Tom realizes he is supposed to know Chief. By reacting that way, he disarms Chief entirely and had a great way of avoiding any further questions from Kira. The strength of his response left Chief uncomfortable even questioning why or - as you pointed out - reaching out any further even for a polite handshake with Kira standing right there to see the possible rejection. Also consider that Chief is “at work”. You’d want to avoid a personal conflict. And most people, apparently even Kira, are too polite to pry into a fight like that when asked not to.

TinMan_7B9

Exactly! The two Rikers can't be the only Evil Twin walking around in the Star Trek universe? Not to mention regular twins. And just imagine the diabolical plans an evil triplet could concoct with this laughable level of security!

Greg Quinn

I think when this episode came out being a terrorist was mostly seen as a negative label but there was some partial exceptions. The IRA for example had some popular framing in the culture, and Sainjil mentions Mandela. Mandela started out as a proponent of nonviolence and did end up as a proponent of non-violence but in between he did utilize violence to some extent through the ANC. So the popular perception was a bit nuanced. Now after 911 I would say it definitely shifted to a more wholly negative tone. Someone being a terrorist was about as morally nuanced as someone being, well let's just say " an Epstein type". Now in 2026 I think it has started to shift back a bit to what it was prior to 911. As some people have different views on what has gone on in Israel/ Palestine. Just my own take on where it's at (as someone with a political science/history degree who has never used said degree beyond Facebook arguments...😬).

Trekkie74205

Now now, don't assume you have seen peak DS9. I totally agree you are to the point where it had become great. It gets better.

Kosh Naranek

I still chuckle everytime Josh calls McCoy, "Old Bones"

SetsunaYuki

I'd say that you are entering the peak of Trek during the 90s. Generations is the starting marking for the Golden Era, Paramount is funneling coal into their own channel UPN at this point.

Tim Nikiforovs

@Aaron Wells Really. I never would have guessed.

Tim Nikiforovs

So in regards to why Tom was so hostile to O'Brien, I think he was just trying to get rid of him so he couldn't interfere with stealing the ship, so he created an awkward situation knowing O'Brien would excuse himself. The Maquis have been shown to have some level of intelligence network, and while Tom may never have met O'Brien, Ro did, and she likely helped brief him for this mission(Kalita was there and she was from the same cell). Of course, while Tom may have read up on everything Will did in the years he was stranded, as well as since he was rescued, he's having to remember a cover story and not his own memories, hence the delay in remembering owing Dax money. And it's quite possible that wasn't even something he was briefed on and he just improvised his way through the interaction. Had he run into O'Brien at Quarks, I doubt he would have raised suspicions by being inexplicably hostile. He probably would have talked about a few stories from the Enterprise he had read up on, asked him how the family was doing, and politely excuse himself before he was asked about something he should know but doesn't. I believe someone already gave an in depth explanation for what quantum torpedoes are in the discord, but simply put, they're about 3x as powerful as ordinary photon torpedoes. One of those new anti Borg technologies incorporated into the Defiant. The scene where Dukat talks about missing his son's birthday is one of my favourites in this episode. I think there's definitely some of that typical Cardassian "never let a chance to manipulate go to waste" mentality going on. Dukat is definitely using the opportunity to the moral high ground and frame the federation as the aggressors who keep fathers from their sons on their birthdays. "We could be making memories with our families if you'd just let us live in peace" and all that. Dukat knows it's BS, but he still plays the game. On the other hand, I do think Dukat is genuinely disappointed that he's missing Mekor's birthday again. Sure he's using the opportunity to take a jab at Starfleet, but Marc Alaimo plays the scene in a way that makes it clear that Dukat has genuine regret about how much of his son's life he's missing out on. Dukat may have done a lot of horrible things in his life, but being a parent does seem to be something he cares a great deal about. Back in the Maquis he seemed genuinely shocked that Sisko, another father, would think him capable of harming Jake. The actress who played Korinas, Tricia O'Neil, previously played the Klingon scientist in Suspicions, as well as Rachel Garrett in Yesterday's Enterprise. It's interesting to see the evolving relationship between the Obsidian Order and the Cardassian military. Hard to say what the Obsidian Order is willing to illegally build a fleet for. If they know where the Maquis are, you'd figure they would just pass that intel on to the military. Whatever they're up to, Dukat is clearly pissed at being left out. And yeah, Thomas Riker's life sucks. I suppose he technically did succeed in exposing what was going on in Orias though. Is that win worth throwing your whole life away? Probably not the route I would have taken. Still, appreciate the continuity of bringing him back. Great episode.

Sainjl

All good points. I guess the point of my comment is the lens that you view that word, popular American culture. In this case, who do Bajorans view as terrorists? Their own people defending Bajoran rights, or an oppressive regime that has invaded their home.

jack

This! This was the episode I was referencing when I warned about the episode summary in Paramount. I'm so glad they seemed to heed the warning cause it's clear they were surprised by the reveal. But be forewarned, there are other episode summaries that give away the plot so be careful! Best practices would be to avoid episode summaries till after you guys watch the episode.

Jon Miller

I have been waiting so long for you guys to see this and praying (but not thinking it likely) that you wouldn't be spoiled. Great that it was a total surprise!

Greg Quinn

Imagine how bad things would have been if that transporter beam would have split into three. Thus creating a third Riker... Sorry...I'll see myself out.

Mark Simonson

Well, twins wouldn't have the same fingerprints, unlike the two Rikers.

Tim Nikiforovs

pretty sure they watch most of this off the DVDs

J-Ro

Great reaction and episode! Maybe I'm only realizing it now, but Star Trek in the 1990s was, in effect, like modern day MCU. Movies and TV shows all happening concurrently in the same timeline. They really got away with some great cross-platform storytelling--well ahead of its time.

Target Audience

We don’t watch off paramount plus unless there’s been some kind of catastrophe

David Kirk

You guys really need to interview Ronald Moore!

Analog Mind

Now this is the episode I was waiting for you guys to see

sword bard

I am LIVING for the guys' reaction to certain future episodes. Like, literally wriggling around in my seat and making happy squealing noises just thinking about what it'll be like when they see ... that one. And that other one. And all those ones.

Steven McDowell

Yeah, makes me think of other 90s properties like Hercules/Xena, and the various Stargate and Baywatch series.

sword bard

Maybe it's a torpedo that might be either a bigger boom or a smaller boom but you can't tell until you see the boom. Also you mustn't watch the boom or it'll change.

sword bard

I hadn't realized until quite recently that this had been the case, and it makes total sense now. Even in the 90s I remember thinking, starting in season 3 and then even more so in subsequent ones: how the HELL did they get away with doing THAT?!?! And oh...yeah, that explains everything. I'm so glad they did. It gave us some of the best TV ever, not just the best Trek but the best TV.

sword bard

You gotta get your company's doctor to order you to take a day off.

sword bard

I see the beginning of this episode as Kira thinking "Hmm, maybe I should try something new and go for a man with a personality" and then 3 hours of fun enjoyable conversation later, she's like "Nah. Ugh, personality. I don't know what people see in it"

Miranda

Ha! It was so fun to see how excited you were to see Frakes! And then the double pop when it turned out to be Thomas! Good times. There's a lot going on in this episode. I like that the Maquis intel turns out to be right. I also like that the Cardassian military knows nothing about any build up of ships. This really contributes to the ongoing sense that all is not well with the Cardassian government. We keep seeing episodes showing dysfunction, dissidents and secret plots. And now we have the Obsidian Order building up some secret fleet of warships and threatening to fire on the Cardassian military. Who is in charge over there? Does anyone know? And then the episode doesn't actually show the audience what the Defiant found in that sector. And it ends before we see what Dukat does with that information. Cardassia sure sounds like a fun place, eh? I feel bad that poor Thomas Riker is consigned to a labor camp. It feels somewhat like a waste of a cool character idea. However, I appreciate that the writers didn't cheat to give him a happier episode ending than he deserved. Overall I like this episode. It's filled with fun character development, political intrigue, lore and a bit of ship action.

Miranda

Also, don't worry, guys. DS9 will still have those same extreme highs and crazy lows. It is still Star Trek*. (*Does not apply to Kurtzman Trek.) You've liked the beginning episodes slightly more than I do, which is fun. There are still two episodes in seasons 3 which I rate as an unqualified S. And at least one more that I feel is really bad. This is just how it goes for Trek seasons.

Loot Narsbaar

After the S2 Finale "The Gym Da'har" Many commenters: "Alex will hate the show because he thinks this episode is mid. J&A hate episodes with space battles." Loot: "The season finale was mid. Don't worry J&A will still love the show. Season 3 here we go!" (Today) Alex: "I love this show." Score one point for Lootradamus

Loot Narsbaar

Shout out to Frakes for playing Thomas as Will perfectly. Cmdr. Riker seemed just a bit off, less angry, and bit less boisterous. Chef's kiss.

Pixels At Dawn

Even if this was chronologically after Generations, can you imagine how annoying it would be to watch your latest episode of DS9 before you go to the cinema to see Generations at the weekend and in the first 10 minutes of the show, Riker turns up and tells everyone the Enterprise got blew up by the Duras Sisters? 😂

Walt Vita

We've all been waiting for this reaction.. fuckin awesome..

Walt Vita

Everyone always blames Troi for crashing the ship lol

MJBull

Hey, it's Riker. No, not that Riker. That Riker.

Loot Narsbaar

Also, great discussion. Josh is 100% right. Kira was a terrorist, unapologetically. The show makes no bones about it. That's part of what makes the show age well! You couldn't do it today, but back in '94 the term was 1% as emotionally charged.

paultardspambot .

Kurtzman trek isnt as bad as some people say it is. Picard in particular is very good, especially the last season (which wasnt Kurtzman)

paultardspambot .

So I think this has to come early, but since you don't like being spoiled, for the DS9 season 4 premiere, PLEASE DONT WATCH from the box set dvd. Dont even get that before you watch the premier because just seeing the box has a major spoilr. I know its sort of a spoiler to say that, but I think you will much prefer if you watch that premier a different way without seeing the box set because I know what the art looks like and it spoils something you definitely don't want spoiled. I know some people will say what I'm saying is a spoiler in and of itself, but on balance based on your preferences, you won't want to see the box set. Analagous to how if the season 3 box set had an image on the back featuring Tom Riker, which would have pissed you off. I wanted to give you guys this message early so you can watch it a different way then the dvds and not be spoiled. Sorry if this violates the rules for spoilers but in my view its the lesser of two evils.

Miranda

I hated the last season of Picard. A wash of nostalgia driven pablum. Nonsensical plotting.

paultardspambot .

For those who are going to say, "well you're telling them theres a spoiler so they will be expecting something in the season 4 premier, for those of you who know what the box art looks like, would it be better they were spoiled by that, or if they knew to watch it some other way? Yes technicaly I'm saying there's "something" they don't want spoiled but it could be anything, and if they get the box set it will be much worse then a credit pre appearance spoiler which they hate. So isn't alerting them not to get the box set better over all? Just dont want to be banned for trying to protect them from an obvious spoiler on the box art.

MJBull

Yes, they are quantum, duh. Obviously superior.

MJBull

Supposedly the events of this episode occurs in April 2371, and Generations occurs in June 2371.

paultardspambot .

yeah, he clearly did a little research about riker's previous visit to DS9. He could have gotten that anywhere, maybe he stayed in touch with Troi and asked her something like "oh, i'm going to be stopping by DS9. Did will ever go there? Maybe I'll have some fun pretending to be will." Or call up Data who could easily be fooled by a similar conversation without expecting anything. Or just had someone pay Quark who would tell them everything Rilker did no questions asked. Its not really important to the story how he got the info, we didnt need the exposition. My headcanon is he does talk to Deanna and finds out about her fling wioth Worf and how they break it off after All Good Things and shes swinging back to will, and Tom mentions he's going to maybe stop by DS9 and asks if Will was ever there because he already has looked up that O'Brien was there and he claims he wants to know if anyone will think hes Will if Will ever went there before. Also, Troi couldn't have found out till after this since starfleet didnt know and he obviously had to keep it a secret, if he told Troi she would try to talk him out of it but if she coulndnt would report him to try to rpoetct him from the consequences of the action she was about to take. What would be very interesting would be to see her reacting to learning about because of course she would know that had she made a different choice in "Second Chances" it would have stopped this from happening. Perhaps that regret though would ironically push her toward Will in a weird sense of guilt and regret. As a counselor she knos she cantr blame herself but knowing her character theres no way she wouldnt feel guilty. The setting of Generations has condlciting sources, but the person who thinks its way later is confused because stardates are not like a calendar, they are based on position due to the lack of an absolute reference for time and the vast size of the federation (see General Relativity, "when" is relative to the perspective of your location to other local "whens") Memory Alpha claims it takes place after "Meridian" Other sources put it "somewhere" between Second Skin and Defiant (and thus the most logical concluision since this airfed just after Defiant premiered is it takes place not long before Generations) We can assume the Enterprise crew has already boarded the Enterprise E as it was likely already constructed before the D was destroyed, but the explanation for that is spoilery. Alternatively, the location of the Enterprise during its destruction was such that neither Tom nor DS9 had received the word, being on the far "west" side of the fedeartion (actually beyond its borders). The real life explanation is that as they were writing both shows they couldnt know ahead of time exactly how the release order vs the movie would come out and since Generations had just started showing theatres when this epsiode came out, they were hoping it would be a case of cross promotion and meant to fiugure this must take place not long before Generations Or he figures out without her telling him because of the Worf thing that Will is still the ma she loves and this is part of his emotionasl crisis that moves him to take this action. He did bring it up to Sisko the first time they talked, so he clearly was aware of the visit, and its something he would have had to know ahead of time, if any one there knew Will. This was obviosuly well planned so he probably DID know O'Brien was there and had a plan in case he ran into him because he obviously couldnt have learned about everything O'Brein knew about him. I'm not one to compain about cases where some people need exposition on every detail when it wouldnt add to the episode and you can just use your reasoning and imagination. There's a whole class of "nitpickers" who try to pick out every single detail in a show that wasn't explained, and to satisfy these people, the show would be nothing but exposition covering every possible nitpick that wouldn't make for a better episode. There's a particular episode later this season that is a good example where I heard crticisms about something and its like "Come on man, cant you just put two and two together, how would showiung the thing you want explicitly shown help? In fact it would have ruined the episode, but the nitpickers just want to be clever rather then enjoying something and filling in some blanks themselves. When we get there I'll explain the example. I'm not at all saying thats what you guys are doing, you are like the opposite of that, but it was sort of a favorite past time of some trek fans where I'm much more of a "use your headcanon to fill in the pieces logically when there are obvious explanations that make sense in universe.

Loot Narsbaar

Season 4 is still a ways away. Maybe DM the mods re: this and they can decide how to proceed? Less chance of a spoiler rather than posting in public comments.

Loot Narsbaar

A possible solution is to get a neutral party to remove the discs for the entire show and put them in generic casing? My DS9 discs are not picture disc. Just gray with print. IDK if other sets have pictures.

Back Flip Bet

They are blue ish white instead of yellow gold

paultardspambot .

Good thing you arent watching Paramount Plus as I just learned they actually show the versions of later episodes with scenes cut for syndication instead of the originals. Ugh ugh Wrote out the tidbits from memroy alpha and my computer crashed during them so not rewriting them all.. I think the main ones that would have interested you the actress playing the Tal'Shiar agent was the actress who played Captain Garret in Yesterdays Enterprise and Kurak in suspicions. Also this is the first appearance of quantum instead of photon torpedos, blue insted of red. They planned earlier that they wanted to bring back Tom and have the Maquis suddenly be much more effective with the reveal Tom was there new leader also, you were right that the Maquis woman was from TNG's Pre=Emptive Strike When we say DS9 was ignored, we mean by the studio higher ups who were focused on Voyager as the new flagship show. This was actually a good thing because it gave them a lot more freedom then during the first two seasons to do what they want, other then some minor studio directives which we can bring up when we get there. Basically after the disappointijg fan reaction and lower ratings, they put their focus on Voyager.

paultardspambot .

Its not irrelevant. This riker spent years isolated, hes more the ambitious Riker from early TNG who feels hes been set back and will always be scond to Will. He wants to prove he takes "the big chances" and wants to distinguish himself. When Tom was stranded the Federationwas still at war with Cardassia. He probably hgas though because of his own psychology the Federation has become too cautious. he wants to make a name for himself but also, the man has to be seriousl traumtized. Kira is right, but Tom has surely thought about this and convinced himself thats not the case, rather that he is the one thinking more clearly, and as Will and Troi has maybe become more of a thing, it even more so motivates him to prove hes nothing like Tom. But Kira's also right that he might be subconsciously suicidal because he feels like anoither man took his life, but didnt live it as well as he could, and based on his nature and no doubt the years he was thinking about what he would do if he ever got rescued. this Riker can't stand the thought of living out his life as Tom, maybe not unlike Picard in Tapestry, so chooses a differnt path thats more in line with the bolder riker while feeling like if he suceeds, its taking a risk and a huge accomplishment and if he dies, its a blaze of glory and better then the life he had. From his pov hes stopping an invasion of the Federation, and fresh from a mindset where the Cardies were the enemy, might feel the Federation is foolisj and the Maquis and others like Maxwell were right. None of this is explicitly stated but you we know enough to reason it out ourselves. I like that we have enough to figure it out without having to be hit over the head with it. And in terms of Will Riker on the other hand- its not just loyalty to Starfleet, the entire Federation including every single life on earth is at risk. Needs of the Few. Picard would make the same choice. Also, Sisko is NOT Picard or Kirk, which has already been shown but he's a different commander. And thematicallly, this show is much more one where its understood you have to make sacrifices. You might dislike the Starfleet brass, but fundamentally, the Federation is a good thing, and in defending it the people are defending the lives and freedom of Billions of people. Everyone who signs up for starfleet understands this, and Kira definitely understands the concept of sacrifices for the greater good.

paultardspambot .

LOL, finally Alex isd getting it. Its about trek as a universe that exists where things happen with long term conseuqences that interweave into an epic plot that takes everything we've built and maxes it out so its not just "planet of the week" but a show where thiungs matter to the world and the plot and the characters are examined through the lens of dealing with this with the station going from a backwater assignment to the most important location in the gaalxy as far as the Federation is concerned with intersection of local and intergalatic events of importance all centering here with these deep characters all with their complex histories that affect the way they interact with that. This is exactly why I was so disappoined with the response to "The Jem'Hadar" because it seemed like you were going to hate the "Big Plot" elem,ents but maybe you were just viewing them through the lens of TNG and not understanding nothing is being dropped or forgotten, the plots all have their own relevance to the much more epic story while it's still (mostly) episodic but gets more and more serialized as we go on and the stakes get higher and higher. LOL, ok, you've won me back now and maybe you'll wind up liking this even more then Josh with its unique mix of episodic and serialization that builds. The only thing that confuses me is the strong preference for episodic when you dislike (as I do) the "oh know the ship might blow up" when we know it's not going to so the stakes arent there. Serialization, partly or complete, allows actual stakes instead of the "reset button" which before serialized tv was common rendered a lot of the "drama" kind of inert. I get it's abnout the characters, but serialization also allows the character to grow and change or regress. And for Josh, you'll eventually get episodes like the ones you are thinking about. can't name them obviously, but there are a few that are generally considered amongst the fans the best that are right up yourt alley and the people who have seen the show know the ones im talking about.

paultardspambot .

I think there was an attraction, and Kira at that point new he was going to a Cardassian labor camp for life so... you know. Something I think would be interesting for you guys to comment on is the how both TNG and DS9 didnt find their footing till season 3 which you probably now agree with, and how TOS by comparison was great in the first two seasons but the third season is considered the weakest (due to budget cuts and studio inteference and Gene being sidelined). Season 3 had some great episodes but it also had somne weak ones and even many of the pretty good ones felt drawn out, like they only had enough material for 2/3 of the episode or so and really had to stretch it out. Its interesting it went down that way, and while yall were a bit cynical about "this is when trek gets good" especially as the start of season 3 isnt as strong as people remember the whole season being (though I toytally disagree that each season after is very distinct as compared to other shows which I think is a product of you guys focusing on trek so much) Anyway, you kept hearing that DS9 gets good at season 3, and it seems like you're on the same page now, so talking about that coincidence might be interesting. Particularly as you didnt have the same enthusiasm for DS9 going in, and after an early strong one, felt season 1 was just kind of meh, while recognizing season 2 as an improvement but still not (by your own admission) really exocted to watch it as compared to TNG. And has that sense changed now that you actually look forwward to DS9? My prediction is while you'll give Voyager a chance for tjhe first two seasons, you will end up being impatient to get back to DS9 after a while, and I say this because Ron Moore absolutely despised Voyager and gave a very good elabortae explanation of why which ill pst when i get to it, and because you like Ron, and because of all the things you DONT like are things that are the worsdt problems in Voyager. Yu thought you knew aht technobabble was but you aint heard nothing yet, at least before it actually made some scientific sense, in Vowager its nonsense and is used to magicaly solve like a third of episodes. False stakes where its obvious the thing that the drama revolves around isnt going to happen, the chaacters acting in whatever way is convenient for the episode, paying little tp no attention to continuity,. overuse of tropes, haviung things that should be improtant developments for the characters completely ignored in the enxt episode anmd never brought up again, space battles where its people rocking and saying "shlkeids down to" versus DS9's awesome space battles. being VERY sci-fi with the characters totally secondary to the sci fi plot of the week, oversue of anoimalies and nebulas and such, recyling of plots better done before, behind the scenes people not liking each other and constant drama which shows in the product, especially in the later seasons almost entirely focused on specific fan favorite characters and pushing others to the back, ratings "stunts", legitimately and by the showrunners admission design assuming "dumb fans" where the order of the episodes isnt supposed to matter for heavy syndicattion and to be not like Ds9 where a complaint was how many people were lost if they had missed a season. And these are only the aspects of what you wont like that arent spoilers. Moore's article trashing the show is spot on, and I think you are very very much on bard with him that it has to be about the characters and it has to that the writers care and respect the audience./ Moore literally sayts they dont respect the audience and are checked out and want to "play to safe" to keep the gravy train rolling and dont want to take any risks, intentionally "dumbing down" the show so the average tv viewer who doesnt want to pay close attention can watch. People may hate on Kurtzman but at least hes passionate and tries new things. I'll take "new trek" even with its flaws over Voyager any day. The only good thing is some of the sci fi plots are good ideas but would have been better executed with a show more character, and good visual effects especially for the time (though nothing like modern trek, foir whatever you want to say about it, no one can argue it doesnt LOOK amazing and is to TNG what NG does was to TOS. Also for whatever reason they do comedy well, when they have the occasional comedic episode. The show, as Moore says, starts off with a ton of potential, and according to him, great actors. But this potential isnt followed up on, as they just do "by the book trek" with bland and inconsistent characters who do whatever is convenient for the plot of the week, and its basically TNG 2.0 but with all the bad things in TNG dialed up and all the good things minimized or poorly exectued. It just feels like they want to play it safe and have another generic star trek show because the ratings stayed decent and at the time were better then DS9 (and ironically they were probably right in thios regard in terms of DS9 being ahead of its time and Voyager being more for the "average tv viewer", and they didnt want to do anything to upset that and were kind of on autopilot instead of being passionate about the product anymore. I wont trash the show in every review, but I'd bet dollars to donuts after a few seasons. you will be very much agree with all these points. Esepcially knowing what you like and dont like, Voyager is going to be a major disappointment, and the contrast with DS9 will be STARK. I know there are people who like Voyager, but the things they like about it are very much NOT the thingd you like about trek. Mainly it has some Braga esque inteersting sci fi concepts for episodes that make some of them watchable... but even then you wont really CARE about most of the cast other then maybe one or two of the aforementioend fan favorite characters who are the strength of the show. And from what I've seen, the only people who say Voyager was theiur favorite ar ethose for whom Voyager was their first exposure to trek (which I guess was good enough as a generic model to bring in new fans and was heavily promoted as the flagship of the newe network and all kinds of ratings stunts). I can't think of anyone who says Voyager is their favorite who didn't start with Voyager, and other then during its initial run, there are almost no fans who consider DS9 as the weakest, with many seeing it as their favorite. though this is amongst trek fans mostly as it never became the mainstream cultural staple that TOS and to a lesser extent TNG became. Since Voyager is coming up, in line with this discussion it seems like a good time to compare the two. Had a lot to say this time even for me but I really loved the reaction here and its really good for me as a sort of turning poijt feeling that you guys ARE going to "get" this show and what makes it unique in the Trek catalogue. I would say if anything one of the only downsides is that from a writers perspective futute shows try to get away from what Voyager was and do more of the DS9 style and while there are good shows ahead I still feel like this is the peak that has never quite been reached again other then maybe Picard's last season

Todd

yeah, the people in charge are definitely more aware of credit spoilers this season.

paultardspambot .

short version is quantum torpedos are stronger but on the Defiant are smaller sized so you can store more. Sci fi difference- Photon torpedos are antimatter electromagnetically cased in a shell which after fired releases the antimatter in such a way that it interacts with the matter to release massive energy in the forms of photons which are massless particles that travel at the speed of light. Quantum torpedos are similar but the energized particle are alternating between quantum states so that it's energy AND mass that impacts, giving extra "oomph" to the force. Quantum torpedos can pack the same buck as a photon torpedo but with a much smaller size, so the Defiant can store a much larger number of them the it could store of photon torpedos. So essentially, quantum torpedos can deliver the same impact as photon torpedos but be signifcantly smaller and use les anti-matter, thus a warship like the Defiant can carry a much larger number of them without having to re-up. Photon torpedos appear orange while quantum torpedos appear blue. A qunatum torpedo the same size as a photon torpedo would be more damaging, but they allow for smaller torpedos so that a ship can be equipped with much more of them. The Defiant also users Phaser Pulse Cannons instead of Phasers. A phaser is a laser bounced inside around a crystal so it interects and picks up energy and then can be directed with precision. Standard phasers are not as destructive as disrupters but allow for much more precision targeting. Phaser Pulses Cannons are where paher energy from several phaser crystal setups are channled together into one massive blast of extremely destructive energy Not accurate like Phasers, but MUCH more destructive power. Since they have to be created from the build up of multiple phasers that intersect into a pulse, that Pulse is stored till it is at full capacity and then releases, in bursts of three. I believe the Defiant also has a standard rarely used phaser array on it's top side (maybe one on the bottom as well?). These are weapons used by a small mobile warship that can take on much bigger ships with abrasive armor in a flat design which spreads eneergy from hits and can take much more (as shown when the Defiant takes a hit from a Cardassian ship in the episode which the shields take without weakening OR damaging at one point during the battle. The phaser pulse cannons and the quantum torpedos were desgined for the Borg since the phaser pulse uses a combination of frequencies and the state flux of the quantum torpedo means the borg EM shields would have to adapt to mass or the energy but couldn't handle both. This comes from a combination of trek tech manuals and my own knowledge of physics to make the explanation a little more intuitve while being a bit less precise. NOTE- When the Defiant fought the Jem'Hadar, the Dominion polaron beams, while being slighlty weaker then phasers or disrupter, go through shields like they are nothing. So even though the definat lost the battle, it held up well considering its shields were essentially down and it took out a Jem'Hadar fighter with one Pulse Cannon burst which the Galaxy Class was unable to do even with two runabout with phasers supporting it, so it did better then you think. A caveat was since the Dominion meant to capture the ship instead of destroy it, they probably had their polaron beams not at the highest setting. The polaron weapons are a technology unknown to starfleet that can penetrate shileds, is extremely precise, with variable settings for different kinds of effects and impacts. Riker destroyed an outpost. Since he actually was a starfleet officer instead of a terrorist, he trageted the engines and to disable ships instead of destroy them. I think thats a subtle thing that people missed, as he specifically targets the engines instead of going for the kill which is what the Maquis would do. He disabled a ship with a single burt of torpedos. I'm not clear if that was the same ship he first hit with the Phaser pulses, or a different ship which also appeared to be disabled from the fleet behind him. But even the first attack he used a targeted shot to disable the weapons, not a kill shot. As fars as the space battles, I think they hold up pretty well. There have been remasters of those b fans bu they mainly just look brighter and enhance detail. None of the space battles "look fake or cheap" which TNG's mostly didn't but the resue of shots was a bit too noticeable, especially when the Klingons were involved. How many times did we see that one shot of the K'vort Bird of Prey blowing up with another in the background

L J

Okay, I don't love the episode, but that reaction to 1) hearing Jonathan Frakes and 2) realizing it is in fact Thomas Riker, is pure gold! I still see the episode as a missed opportunity in bringing back a character we thought we'd never see again, but that reaction is almost enough to make up for it!

paultardspambot .

There was also singificant voice actor crossover for Justice League. Rene Auberjonois was one who voiced multiper characters.

Laura Thornley

Well we can tell by the still image that they weren't expecting this. Good job with the non-spoilers, now keep it up! I want these two to have the best possible experience with this incredible show.

CarnifexRex

I knew the Frakes reveal was before the credits, but I got worried that they would show "Jonathan Frakes as Thomas Riker", but they really seem to be catching on that the reveals hit better when they're not spoiled in opening credits

Joshua Langweil

what is the source material? Every time there's a commercial break I am out of sync.

Jon Miller

Can we just say how epic the editing was when the background switched up during the Defiant power up?

Crewman #6

That look of utter betrayal when Riker snubbed O'Brien How many things that you guys asked for before the start have happened already? Wonder how many more of your asks will be fulfilled :) Short exp. re. Quantum Torpedoes: They boom harder than Photons. Lol - No Spoilers really is our Prime Directive.

Caleb

Doctor Who? When are you all committing? lol.

Rangsk

Photon torpedoes are red. Quantum torpedoes are blue.

Lozman73

I watch along with my Downloaded Seasons on Apple TV

Connor Watson

I feel like Jonathan Frakes is brilliant in this. Watching a second time you can see the slight differences in his performance from TNG; he's definitely playing Thomas Riker. The way he moves, stands, talks, it's Thomas Riker the whole time he's not hiding it he's acting it.

Lorne Pribbeno

First comment in the Patreon. I knew this one was gonna be a fun double reveal. Gotta love how these writers trusted their audience so highly to pull this off and have it make sense. Plus, yes, he was trying to get rid of O'Brien, hence the hostility

Lovok

Completely agree with Miranda. I know P3 won a lot of older fans over, but I was not one of them. Better than the rest of NuTrek? Sure. The first two seasons are PIC are utter garbage. P3 is, at its best, barely tolerable. A step up from P1-2, but not nearly enough to actually cheer for. It's like a Frankenstein hybrid of all the worst elements of NuTrek and, as Miranda said, "nostalgia driven pablum," wasted opportunities, and awful plotting. The CGI is also smeared dark garbage and looks far worse than 90s-era Trek.

Derek Orr

Voyageur is indeed far superior most of the time to DS9....it's much more true to pure Star Trek....on a ship, exploring. Less politics and wars

Derek Orr

No it's pretty horrible. Disco is ugh.....SNW started ok....then became theatre kids variety show rom com. Lower Decks is just dumb cartoon comedy and fan trivia. Picard season 3 is good yes...and so is Prodigy, especially season 2. Academy has been mostly better than I was expecting...but still a mess overall.

Derek Orr

I mean when has Terrorist ever NOT been seen as a negative thing ?

Derek Orr

Defiant is overrated (the ship)

Derek Orr

Umm DS9 is not funny either, neither is Voyager.

Some Guy

Resistance is futile, and so are you

Josh Mariota

Riker/Frakes has a very Chad aura. I just love how Nana adores him in this episode.

Jakob Robinson

1:22:45 that would have been a cool episode idea...

Jakob Robinson

1:32:20 You guys are going to do B5??!? Woohoo! I can't wait.

Andrew C

Why am I just getting a timer?

Bert

Tom mentioned Quark's to Sisko before Jadzia brought it up. The Masquis probably conducted some intelligence to make sure Tom could deal with anyone who had met Will. With O'Brien, Tom might have been ad-libbing but to me it's more likely that they knew O'Brien had interacted with Will Riker too much for Tom to fake it so they chose to freeze O'Brien out. He didn't have to keep the Chief confused for long. I appreciate that they didn't try to insult O'Brien's intelligence by having him duped by a slick detailed con. Awkwardness that minimized interaction was the better approach. That said, I think their interaction is pretty solid evidence that this takes place before Generations. O'Brien would have made a point to see Riker immediately if this were immediately following the destruction of the last ship he served on. It probably would have been the first thing out of his mouth

Ja Dav

all of this

JCtechwizard

"Tom might have been ad-libbing but to me it's more likely that they knew O'Brien" They?? Mean He?

Lozman73

Fun Fact : Korinas, the Obsidian Order 'Observer' was played by none other than Tricia O'Neil, yep - Capt. Rachel Garrett of the Enterprise C from ' Yesterday's Enterprise ' ! Oh & she played the Klingon Scientist Kurak from the S6 TNG Episode 'Suspisions' as well :)  

Lozman73

because you watch along with your own 'uncut' copy :)

SteepHill

One of my favorite episodes of the season!!! Couldn't wait to see you guys react to this one!

DonMiguel

Knowing it is still Will Riker at heart, it makes you wonder how the real Will feels about the Maqui and if his conflict with Roe had a touch of envy or jealousy.

Comrade Wireless Caller

This ep serves as a fitting ending I think to the story of Tom Riker, while also helping to characterize the Maquis. I liked the Sisko/Dukat match-up here. Dukat's pathos-filled story about his son's "hatred" is blatant enough that it's probably an attempt to get into Sisko's head and manipulate him. In a way that fits the character better than a straight reading. I also liked the Obsidian agent (isn't this Captain Rachel Garrett in disguise?), and on the Maquis side, it was a clever touch to put Kalita from "Preemptive Strike" on the team. Personally I think there was no need to follow up on Riker's fate after this episode. It is extremely unlikely that the Cardassians would have let him survive in prison. He got the sacrifice he wanted, and its nature makes it more admirable in a way.

Prof Moff

DS9 sex scoreboard catch up version No scores that I saw (remember I am only catching up with the short versions) The sex score board Quark 5 Jadzia 3 Chief 1 Keiko 1 Odo 1 Kira 1 Bashir 1 Jake 1 GUEST: T Riker 1 DETAILS: no scores. Thomas is NO Riker

TrekWars

This makes the most sense. It's funny how TA gets it wrong, but still reaches the same conclusion that the Chief can blow his cover

Bert

"They" meaning the Masquis

Prof Moff

reviewed this ep and still do not think Tom - Kira smashed