Home
Creators
Search Recent Random
Posts
Search DMs Popular Hash Lookup Tags Random
Importer
Import FAQ
Register Favorites Keys Review DMs Logout
Community
Telegram ThePornDude
Home Creators Posts Import Register Favorites Logout

UNCUT - Past Tense Part 1 & 2 (DS9 S3E11-12) | Star Trek Journey 340 (Patreon)

Published:
2026-02-04 16:43:57
Edited:
2026-02-05 15:16:12
Imported:
2026-09
Tags:
stj

Videos

  • 608453766.mp4

Downloads

Content

YOUTUBE LINK

Files

Comments

William Roberts

Oh man I can't WAIT to see if the streak continues!

William Roberts

Would Dukat be Paul Haymen? The Cardassians would be the Dangerous Alliance

Worf and Riker Ride Again

Nah guys, you have it all wrong! Stargate SG1 would be the WCW. Definitely agree with Sisko as Taz, I'm sure he speared the first Jem'Hadar he met - GORE!!

Ramen Nudels

Sir, there's been another "star trek 6" incident.

Jack Molitor

Sad sound 😢 lol It’s all right guys. Be honest.

Matchstick Jose

This should go well. Just remember, everyone, don’t say anything you’ll regret later!

Doctor Pulaski

To be fair to Josh and Alex, I always think this is boring on my rewatches; Clearly it should have been one episode. I do disagree with that it wasn't "in universe"; back in the 90s, 2024 felt like it was far in the future. This was meant to be a cautionary tale. They also semi-predicted things like social media, etc. We didn't have computers like that in 90s fellas, this was straight dystopian sci-fi back then. Did this age well? No. Is it a good rewatch? No. Should it be erased from cannon though? Absolutely not, I remember watching this in the 90s, and it resonated with me back then. I even remember rewatching this circa 2008, and it still felt a long ways off, and even more relevant. The homeless problem in CA wasn't nearly as bad when this aired as it is now, so based on the fact of how predictive it was makes it noteworthy, even if it may not be entertaining. Add to this that we currently have masked "agents" rounding people up in unmarked vans based on skin color, and straight up murdering civilians, it resonates even more. Maybe that's just me, because I know some people who were rounded up like this a few months ago. Star Trek is woke and preachy sometimes, going back to TOS; that's just Star Trek. But yes, I agree the execution did not age well in this instance.

Andre Maestas

Disappointed in this one. Def an A episode.

Andre Maestas

But to each their own. I need to be less excited about my fav episodes just in case lol

Jonathan

As someone who isn’t a morning person I’m glad you did your first early morning reaction to the worst 2 parter in DS9. At least watching this in the 90s the view of a possible future was slightly interesting.

River Acheron

I didn't like this for just one reason. This is NOT the 2024 we lived in. I know it's not the episode's fault, but I'm sorry....it breaks the immersion and I can't take it seriously. It's the same exact reason why I can't stand Back to The Future 2. It's NOT our 2015, so therefore it's a meaningless movie now. Maybe it would have hit me different if I was alive and watched this when it aired in the 90's, but they call it 2024 and no one has smart phones, no YouTube, no real internet even. Again, I get it's not the episodes fault for not having psychics on the staff, lol. I am sure this is an unpopular viewpoint, but I don't like "future" stuff (as in our future), and the date comes, and it's not accurate to our present. It's just a me thing. I rate this episode as M. For Meaningless. I cannot give this any other grade than that.

Jonathon Tsagris

The point it became clear you didn't like it was when I looked at the thumbnail of the video.

Jonathon Tsagris

I don't particularly like this episode. Not as much as you guys don't like it, it's more of a low C for me. It tends to receive a lot of praise (it's in a bunch of top 10 lists) but I think it's a good example of the difference between something being important in the sense of teaching a moral/social lesson that people need to hear; and something being an engaging episode of television. It was definitely the former; but it fails at the latter. I'm more tolerant of setting episodes in the present day that you guys are, and I don't think that was the problem, but it was definitely stretched thin. I think there is a way to tell basically this same story, in a single episode, and have it be an engaging story but the writers here didn't quite manage it.

Ryan

Commenting after part 1: I'm biased because I loved this two-parter when it aired -- the dystopian future stuff was suitably scary and cool for a teenager. Watching it now, this strikes me as a story that ran maybe 10 minutes too long for one episode, so they stretched the beginning into an episode of its own, and they did it in the worst way, with a bunch of moralizing that went on way too long and led nowhere. Yikes. I do remember part 2 bringing in the action, so we'll see if it improves. I do enjoy the "welcome, new boy" antagonist because he's got that Ted Levine voice. I keep waiting for the scene where they discover the cistern in his basement.

Darren

For me it’s a decent enough two parter but it’s got several flaws, it feels like an hours worth material stretched to 90 mins. It has some weak guest performances. It is a little too preachy at times. Is it the weakest DS9 two parter so far? Yes. Weakest of all Trek? No. Its depressing tho as 2024 seem so far away when i first watched this one - getting old.

Alejandro Calzetta

I remember loving this one when I was a kid. As far as I can remember it was very well received at the time.

Ryan

That's such a good distinction. It's an important message with weak delivery.

Matchstick Jose

It is generally brought up as a highlight when people are talking about the series as a whole. I wouldn’t say universally loved, whether because some people find it slow or they just prefer more allegory when Trek addresses social issues and not something presented so bluntly.

Alejandro Calzetta

Yes, I agree. It was not the best and its not a personal best but I regard it highly. Maybe its a generational thing.

Badger

What rating would you give it?

Deep Red

Okay so, there are obviously difficulties when having a discussion online where there aren't just all the people in the room conversing. But I think you were a little unfair to the people who talk about the message in this episode (and other star trek media to some extent). At least in regard to Past Tense, the message is the story. We are not "replacing" our assessment of the episode with our assessment of the message/social commentary. Those two things are not mutually exclusive here. I understand your point about it not being executed well. I disagree, but I understand your perspective there. And I do think it's overly simplistic to say that the message of the episode is "poverty bad". I would assume you found the story itself to be overly simplistic, I would argue it's about way more than that. It's discussing how these issues develop, what perpetuates them, how social unrest leads to meaningful change, and how it's easy to be apathetic to suffering. It explores the mindsets of many types of people from different walks of life and how they contribute to this kind of environment. Yes there are not a lot of plot developments, but it's trying to show a believable scene of social unrest, piece by piece. PS. (Anyway, I hope this didn't come off rude or aggressive or anything. I just figured since you guys were direct and honest about your views here, I would be as well. Congrats if you read all this lol)

William Roberts

oh man this reaction makes me REALLY excited for a well loved future episode which I will not name here.

Deep Red

Boy have I got a surprise for you! :D

beanKounter

DS9 is more an allegory of the breakup of Yugoslavia with Bosnia (Barjons) and Croatia (Cardassians ). Being a teen watching , some elements and themes in certain episodes (not this one) were pretty on the nose with the news.

Spacecataz

Star Trek 6, The Jem'Hadar, and now this smh

Doctor Pulaski

Badger, I'd say when it aired in the 90s a solid B for dystopian Sci Fi & Time Travel. In 2026, from a rewatchability perspective, it is unfortunately in D territory (easily would be C or B if condensed into one episode though). Definitely not an E though, for reasons stated above.

Doctor Pulaski

I will say I think Avery Brooks is great throughout this, especially in part 2.

Darren

It’s fairly high on IMDb’ ratings 7.8 and 7.9 I think.

Deep Red

Another TA hot take as struck the second tower!

Terminaldogma01

At least Samuel Clemens didn’t show up

THE LORE!!!

You said a lot of things that I spent about ten minutes typing and deleting, trying to be articulate but respectful. I'm cool with people hating on Ira, but successful people are allowed to bring up social injustice.

River Acheron

Horror connection(s) Too many to count, so ill pick the top 3 first movies that comes to mind Dick Miller: Chopping Mall Clint Howard: The Ice Cream Man Jim Metzler (Brynner): Children of the Corn 3

Summer

You guys are consistent, I had a sense you wouldn’t like this one (though your trailer was awesome) its a c for me, can’t wait for Voyager and better DS9! Now I am thinking of all the other patrons who tomorrow will find all these comments and know. I excuse it not being our 2024 because the Star Trek universe didn’t have Star Trek so isn’t ours (I believe City on the edge of forever shows us a different pre world war 2, the only way Edith Keeler would have encouraged her values was if the Pacific theater never happened so it is clearly a different universe.)

JordanK1991

Damn. I knew (from your faces) only minutes in that you were loathing it. Am I surprised? Not really, but a bit...considering this is in fact one of the better-rated 2-parters of all Star Trek (7.8 & 7.9 on IMDB). This two-parter is one that comes up A LOT in people's favourites. But then, I have come to expect the unexpected on here :) The only thing I'm genuinely astounded by is the E score, not from one but BOTH of you. E sounds kinda wild, tbh. But to each their own. Shame that this high-rated two-parter completely breaks the season for you, and that we finish the DS9 spree on two Es.

Collin Freeman

Well, I've heard you say on more than one occasion that you would rather have the episode be really good or really bad. I guess, be careful what you wish for?

River Acheron

While I dislike the episode for my own reasons (it's immersion is broken being that it's not 2024 that I know), I will say that Josh and especially Alex have a very hard time to get back into something once they check out. It's just something I noticed, and they talk more and stop paying as close attention. That's a very normal response for a lot of people, the whole "first impression" kinda thing. That's being said, I WILL concede that this may have been a product of the 90's and doesn't age too well? I find it to be irrelevant and heavy-handed. Perhaps I'm in my own little bubble and never read an Upton Sinclair book lol, I dunno...it didn't exactly grab me? I'm in no way saying that the episode is bad in and of ITSELF. It's just not for me. I do disagree with Alex and Josh's extreme dislike of exposition. I think in an episode like this, it's necessary. But yeah, Bashir was being sooo annoying with unending questions and comments the entire time. So I dunno how I feel about it. I forget this exists and move on.

Deep Red

That is a good point that I was also thinking about. Sometimes feel like famous people are just never allowed to talk about real world issues because people will accuse them of being disingenuous. But like, hey, change has to start somewhere. And they're the ones making the show. My only problem is when they are being explicitly hypocritical.

Actuarial Lurker

The Lore- in fact successful people have a bigger social reach and megaphone so might have a duty yo be vocal about this stuff...if average Joe does social justice he is ignored

Deep Red

Oh true! Dick Miller is a B-movie legend.

River Acheron

Remember him in The Howling? Along with....and I can say this now that they have seen Voyager.....The Doctor! Robert Picardo played the werewolf...Eddie I think? It's been a while since I seen it. BEST werewolf transformation....yes better than American Werewolf in London!

Vina

Wow, I think this is the first time where I think their assessment of an episode is "dog shit". Sometimes Trek stories are allegory but sometimes they are discussion of actual events (like in time travel episodes) where the plot is part of Trek's history. It's no spoiler that in Trek lore, as fluid as it is, between the 1990s and the founding of the Federation there are a lot of really dark moments in human history (the Eugenics wars) but bright moments too (the Irish Reunification of 2024). The Bell Riots are just a part of that dark history and its ups and downs. It adds to that lore. They could have made the episode(s) an allegory about homelessness and set it on another planet but I think the urgency of the message of this one and not just saying "this could be bad if it happened on Earth" but rather "this actually DID happen on earth in Trek's timeline, and it happened really close to when we're writing it, try to do better than the humans in Trek" makes it better than an allegory (and of course, we failed to live up to that challenge)

River Acheron

Oh, they will like that one I think! :)

Actuarial Lurker

There WAS an Internet in 1994- I was 28 and Netscape was just released as a big browser and that year was when people dumped AOL and used alternate ISPs etc so they COULD have had some Internet stuff Here is a 1969 video predicting the net- of course with the man doing the banking, the woman spending his money and the kid doing homework, given the nature of the times but very spot on...so they could have thought of this in 1995 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYkjZSaElOo

River Acheron

Okay granted, but still, what we see here is still so far removed from our real 2024 that it breaks everything for me. Same thing as I said with Back to the Future 2....it looks so rediculously stupid...like a jetsons cartoon or something. I know I am being unfair but it's a personal gripe of mine and it immediately kills the story for me.

Collin Freeman

Preachy works. I can get behind that term in this circumstance.

Keith S

Wow! I haven't seen this much controversy since Star Trek 6.

Sam Langanke

They said we will understand if we are aware that they watch from a present day perspective and not from the time it aired. Sometimes I think that's unfortunate.

River Acheron

The ONLY way I can excuse this for not being OUR 2024 and head-canon it, is there have been so much time-travel in Trek, that the timeline and splits and alternate realities including alternate pasts emerge. And at least we have TNG Parallels that confirms the multiverse and every possible scenario, every choice, every history happens. So okay, there IS that. But I don't like the episode enough to really try to fit it into my worldview like that. lol

Summer

Oh I agree, just saying I don’t dislike it for that, my bigger issue is how often Trek changes their history saying it was dark then you see it, and yawn. But yes the timeline of Trek itself has been altered by every writer. For a long time I was a defector on the city on the edge of forever till I noticed how different from our world war 2 that had to be to make it make sense

Jack Molitor

Oh man, I’m almost positive I know what episode you’re talking about, but this reaction actually makes me worried they’ll hate that one too…because I love this one and the one you’re (probably) talking about.

Vina

Any piece of media is a product of its time, and its most obvious when making predictions about the future. If you as a viewer are unwilling to put yourself in the shoes of someone watching from that era, you're not really doing your part as an audience member. If you're unable to because you're completely unfamiliar with that era, that's another thing I guess.

River Acheron

Is that not true, though? I wanna be sensitive to the world and all that, but episodes like this seem like a product of its time. Granted, I am NOT a very political person. There's some things I focus on, like LGBTQ rights, and legalization of weed etc, so I may be WAY off the mark...but I dunno how relevant a story like this is now. I know the homeless problem is still big in san francisco etc. And wasnt there a fear like 10 years ago about FEMA basically forming Sanctuary Districts or something akin to that? But nowadays? I dunno. The episode doesn't speak to me is what I'm saying. Being that I only got into Trek a few years ago as well, there absolutely is a generation gap. For example, I have heard of the cold war, but I don't know how it could feel to live thru it, so it means nothing to me, when people reference it to Star Trek 6 or whatever. So of course there's going to be disconnects

Michel Provost

Their 2024 is pretty close to our 2024/2026.

Sam Langanke

I understand the disconnects. But giving it an E is just disrespect.

River Acheron

We have a bit of a wait. Lets all remember this thread. lol

Vina

@River Archeron: The FEMA camps thing was a right-wing conspiracy about people God-fearing patriots (the people with the most privilege in US society) being corralled into what would be concentration camps. But of course the truth is the polar opposite, and in fact its the people with the LEAST privilege getting kidnapped and put into ICE camps or otherwise disappeared I only lived thru the very tail end of the the cold war but I think I can pretty easily imagine the problems of stories from that era because I'm familiar with other media and history about that era (the red scare, HUAC, korean and vietnam wars, cuban missile crisis, etc)

River Acheron

@Vina Yeah, I cannot put myself into a time before I was born (in this case, 1995) and imagine what it was like for 90's people wondering what 2024 would be like. I try! I mean I know 90s technology and slang and stuff from YouTube videos etc, but the political climate, or social issues of the day, and THEN imagine what THEY would imagine our time would be like to make a political/social statement reflecting THEIR time is....I just can't do it. lol. This episode was probably PHENOMENAL back in 1995, but for MY eyes, it's just a mess.

Target Audience

Good points. Everything on our channel is in the perspective of our opinion and enjoyment. So an E being erase from canon, means we erase it from our personal canon because we hate it so much. Not that it should be erased from existence for everyone. If someone loves this, that’s great.

Zenlike Creature

Whilst you raise some valid points, I think sometimes the writer(s) believe (rightly or wrongly) that the allegory approach may be too subtle for the message they wish to put across. My wife and I work with some of the most vulnerable in society and it's a sad state of affairs. Some people, through no fault of their own, slip through cracks of society and end up with no voice or agency in the own future, despite wanting to be part of and contribute to society. Yes, writers can be heavy handed at times with their messaging but they clearly feel strongly about the subject matter and don't feel allegory will work and need to be more on the nose. I understand that irks some people and I'm sure we've all seen more recent similar reactions to films and TV shows trying to put a message across. They just want to be entertained after their day and don't want to be 'preached' at. Perhaps the message was stronger than the story in this episode and everyone is entitled to their view, that's fair. But, even 30 years later the problem still persists in many, if not all countries. Perhaps they should have used a bigger sledge-hammer to hit home their message.

Summer

As for the acting, let me just tell you what 150 comments on YouTube will say, these guest characters were supposed to be over stressed mostly delusional people so they kind of acted to what that scenario would be. Now I will give your response, we don’t want to watch that episode on star trek then I might say in that sort of scenario if they were really that close to the eugenics wars the government would have"…..

River Acheron

But wouldn't it be legendary if he did? No explanation. Just walking through the district smoking his cigar, making those weird grunts and stuff.

Summer

Voyager! Voyager! Voyager! In a way I am glad you started Voyager after this, you were ready

Terminaldogma01

Probably would give it an E+ just for the wtf moment

Cory Paton

I have no stake in what other people think of individual Star Trek episodes, but I do love watching these guys react to them even when I disagree with their opinions. I think this episode is poignant and theres some good stuff here but I also think it shouldn’t be a 2-parter and the supporting cast are mostly boring so I don’t care what happens to them. Sisko with a shotgun is badass though!

Doctor Pulaski

You guys weren't wrong, it's a subjective and nuanced discussion, as most worthy discussions are. At least the episode has us talking about these important issues; that's not nothing.

Doctor Pulaski

Yeah I always like filling in the 21st Century Lore stuff. We knew about eugenics wars in the 90s, and post apolyptic horror depicted by Q in Encouter at Farpoint, but this episode helped fill in some of the in-between times.

Doctor Pulaski

One could argue not bringing up injustice makes you part of the problem. It's not like they did this for 26 episodes a season. From time to time, it is important to speak out. Just ask the Germans.

Michael Nemo

1995??!???? I was in undergrad then!!!

Jon1701

I think that may be the point of them.

Jon1701

I always thought this was a rather dull two parter but it is a little better on a rewatch.

Zack

I like it

Christian Sander

I love these episodes!Star Trek Social Commentary at its best I think. This is still very up to date. The quote "Causing people to suffer because you hate them... is terrible. But causing people to suffer because you have forgotten how to care." is one of my favourite - and unfortunately accurate - DS9 quotes.

Deep Red

It is really good. And Robert Picardo is the GOAT even outside of Star Trek.

Sir, This is A Quark's.

Guys... Josh seems to really dislike TimeTravel... so... how do I tell him I'm his 40 year old great grandson? Any suggestions, welcome.

William Roberts

So you’re telling me if you were to build the perfect Cardassian from the ground up…. Also I just had a thought. Quark is Bobby the Brain and Odo is Gorilla monsoon and they’re just always arguing. I can hear Odo now… “WILL YOU STOP??”

Target Audience

Wait until you find out I’m actually you, and you’re stuck in a time loop paradox

THE LORE!!!

Pushing back, my use of the word woke is correct in my Patron take. As under the umbrella of the modern term is having awareness of systemic social injustice. I'd say that shining a light on a system where people less fortunate have no way of improving their socioeconomic situation counts. It's not just identity politics. But I appreciate you reading it.

Derek Locke

Fantastic episodes! One of the rare times I'm tempted to mute Alex and Josh and just enjoy the episode it

Tim Nikiforovs

Alright, that does it! I've put up with your bad takes plenty of times before, but a double E, you took it too far!! Wanna know what else is Past Tense? My membership. I'll give my money to content creators who validate my opinions instead of having their own. Good day sirs! (Storms out) But seriously, it's not the end of the world. I can actually agree with a lot of the criticisms, and like Shatner's Cigarette(I think) was saying the other day, a big part of the problem is the generational divide between people who saw this in the 90s and today. Granted I'm not much older than you guys, but I saw all this as a young kid as opposed to my late 20s/early 30s. Part of that is that preachy movies and TV weren't AS common back then. They were around, but it wasn't like today where almost every piece of media seems to want to be preachy about something to the point where it just becomes annoying and predictable. I wouldn't however say TV writers in the 90s would be the ones "at the party". They'd be upper middle class at best. We're not talking about Speilbergs and Scorseses here. Ultimately, it hasn't aged well for multiple reasons, and I would say that takes some of the shine off. Still, I'd give part one maybe a C-, and part 2 a b or B-, so maybe C+ overall. I agree in principle with your criticisms, but those things don't provoke nearly the same level of irritation for me. It's fine. An interesting time capsule to look at and compare to how the 2020s actually turned out, and it is a bit more lore that connects a few more dots between our near future/present and the future of Star Trek. I understand not enjoying at as a couple hours of television though. On to Voyager.

Better Watch Trek

I love this episode. But I suppose that for this one the point of view is really, really important. Back in the early 90s the general feeling was a good one. (I know, I know, not everywhere in the world) but for the most countries, especially EU and US. The cold war was over, there was no feeling of a thread or a potential war at the horizon. A lot of technology innovations... So when this one aired, I thougt that this future may become reality if we left those people (or countries) behind and don't start helping them. It was a warning and therfore an interesting episode. I'm only 32 minutes in the reaction and you already statet that its boring and that its known that 2024 was bad. And somehow its really sad. Not that you said/felt this way, the sad part is that after 30 years "bad" became the reality. People are already overrun by media/news of bad situation and don't want to be remindet in a tv show too. I get it. Therefore: this episode has no chance of beeing seen as it was intendet in the 90s. And there is nothing to discuss or worry about. Star Trek covers a lot of storys and ideas, so its nice that they spent two episodes to this topic. And why not? We already have a lot of space nebula anomalies episodes ;) So like it or not (I do and it wont change) and on the next episode it may be the other way around for other reasons. However, Alex you missed an outstanding delivery in the Bashir monologue about the high morals of the federation and if they would hold when putting enough pressure from the outside. Don't think you'll rewatch the episode, but maybe this part. And somehow it remindet me of the concept of beeing vegan. If you crash with a plane, you survive, but the only thing to eat is beef... do you keep your high moral?

Worf and Riker Ride Again

Chief and Kira emerge from the transporter beam, smoke billowing through the dusty streets. Kira looks at the Chief with confusion as a strange noise begins to get louder. “Mmm-hmm woo! AHA! Mmm-hmm!” “Look Kira! It’s the legendary 19th century author - Mark Twain!”

Worf and Riker Ride Again

The irony of all the hardcore DS9 people shitting on Voyager, then this being the last episode before Caretaker…

River Acheron

And woke is fine. But my issue remains that it's out-of-date, in terms of this episode. I don't mind woke media, but would I or should I care about something that was social injustice, in say, Ancient Rome? Or the Middle Ages? Or even the 1850's? It's like getting invested over media that shines a light on the women's lib movement. We're past it now. I totally understand the phrase "those that don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it", but then it's no longer woke we are talking about....it's a history lesson. And I wouldn't want a history lesson in, say, a night I feel like watching a horror movie.

Summer

Yeah in different ways I love TNG, DS9 and Voyager the same amount but it is convenient that an episode I agree could have been better is right before Voyager. But good stuff for both is coming

Derek Locke

Star Trek was never woke. It was progressive. Two VERY different things.

River Acheron

and TECHNICALLY the first Terminator is considered a horror movie.

Fedora The Explorar

This is just confusing to me cause I don't really see this episode as that preachy and I think there's a lot to it other then that. This episode is just Crossover. Two main crew people get trapped in a hostile environment where their life is danger only this plot is more complex and engaging than Crossover because they have to preserve the timeline even if it places their lives in danger and we also see our crewmates try to help them. Bashirs "its not your fault" scene or Siskos "you don't get it do you" have nothing to do with speaking to the audience or preaching, those are personal character moments for them and the people they're speaking to. Bashir wants to be empathahic and reach out to people and tell them its not their fault even when reality isn't always so idealistic. Sisko ranting at the guard is the exact equivalent of how in Crossover Kira was speaking to mirror Sisko and ranting at how he's become a slave who gave up and accepted that bad things will stay bad and that she cares about freedom. It's literally the exact same scene. The only reason I can think of for why you liked one and disliked the other is that you were already checked out of the episode and came at this scene with a bias of expecting preachiness.

Phenomenon (Doo - Dooo - Dah - Doo - Doo)

You just saved me a great deal of typing. I was spending a considerable amount of thought trying to express the context of this episode without resorting to "Well, you have to remember that in the 1990s...." and you did it exceptionally well.

Ryan

Oof. Part 2 wasn't as captivating as I remembered. It did have an Important Message™, and there were more good conversations — the "everyone always says that and nothing ever changes" chief among them. But it was hamstrung by everything obviously taking place on a backlot, and no significant development for any of our characters. It was like the worst of TOS, where our characters feel like they're walking through someone else's story. But I still can't give either episode an E. The producers were trying to hit on something important and they broke out of the DS9 norm to do it, even if they didn't do it very well. I'd say straight D for part 1 and D+/C- for part 2. I wish you didn't have to leave DS9 on this note for a couple weeks, but you'll come back to better episodes. And in the meantime... a new voyage.

Lt Dan I Scream

its funny cause I think in the 90s it was good. but looking at it from a focus of 2026 its a bit on the nose. in the 90s it was a warning .. get your shit together... in 2026 its a see we told you... I get why you would hate this. it makes me laugh cause of the stuff they nailed and what they thought the future would look like... overall I cant argue about your take and how much you hate it .. as a mater of fact I think it would have shocked me if you loved this one. that said I think if you took the story out of the DS9 context you might have enjoyed .. 90s were big on end of the world type movies and shows .. Vampire stuff because of Aids ... global weather cause of global warming threat.

Ryan

P.S. Other people are correct that the '90s were more aspirational than today (at least in America), and so this felt less preachy because the reality they were commenting on seemed a lot further away. Or at least it was better hidden back then.

Phenomenon (Doo - Dooo - Dah - Doo - Doo)

The only way a Star Trek writer during the TNG and DS9 eras got anywhere near a limo was if they drove one as a side gig to help make their own car payments

FPG

While I respect you're opinion on the episodes, despite disagreeing, I think it is entirely unfair and uncalled for to suggest that those behind star trek are doing nothing about the issues. Star Trek has a long history of promoting social change and inspiring people to do better. And remember, back in this era, social media wasn't around, people really weren't always aware just how bad things were, it was very easy to overlook these sorts of problems in society, so quite blatantly highlighting them in popular media was in itself helping. We can't fix problems we don't notice or find convenient ways to ignore. I'd suggest that those behind star trek have had a significantly more positive impact on society than the average member of society. You don't like the episode, fine, but don't shit all over people who are doing significantly more than the average for society.

Target Audience

Crossover has excellent direction, pacing, set design, new characters, performances, dual actor special effects, and a fun jailbreak climax. It’s also set in a future space mirror universe and not modern earth.

Trent Bowles

Do they love anything that isn't cloaked in at least 3 layers of allegory?

D Jammers

The episode sucks so bad I don't even want to watch the reaction.

Altariel

After seeing that Past Tense got 2 Es, I can't see how they could like that one...

Shortskirtsandexplosions

I think a lot of people remember this two-parter for the impactful themes, the cutting philosophical ideas, the "prophetic nature" of the social commentary... and a few really good lines. But a lot of us forget how agonizingly diluted all of that is across ninety minutes of "meh". Myself included. Sorry about the streak ending. I still generally "like" this episode, but I don't go back often to play it much. I think I might now know why.

Tim Nikiforovs

"successful people are allowed to bring up social injustice" As long as they're not pretentiously singing "Imagine" at all the poors from their multimillion dollar mansions.

Matt Dixon

These review brahs get triggered over the funniest things 🫠. While many often look back with rose coloured glasses, this message ~was~ important on TV at the time. But yeah, so-so episodes.

Summer

You guys were probably watching Legacy in TNG when this episode was supposed to happen, actually that’s a week off because I forgot….well….

Altariel

Very well said. I can understand not being a fan of the episode (it's not my favourite either) but the complaint that the message "poverty bad" is too on the nose and too simple is imo indeed a bit strange. Maybe the episode starts out this way, but then the story tries to explore what that can lead to, how it affects people, and how society reacts to it. Maybe it's simply an unfortunate time to watch it, with our own reality shows us these kind of stories in the news on a daily basis... Getting reminded of that can be frustrating: Star Trek showing us our own time as a "bad future" is a story that not everyone wants to hear.

JRandolph

It's one of those things that may have been talked over and missed, but actually, Sisko (Bell) DID die. The guard swapped their IDs with two casualties, so history recorded Bell died, just as he did in the original timeline.

Target Audience

I understand that. I was saying there was implied risk for Sisko stepping in as Bell since Bell dies, but then it never plays into any actual danger or consequence. Sisko gets shot and is just fine.

Tim Nikiforovs

Their disappointment was immeasurable, and their day was ruined

BeefNugs

Star Trek has a history of taking on certain issues of the time. I understand where you may not have the.... patience and imagination to see what this 2 parter is conveying. i was 10 when this aired. and i still see the similarities and issues that just...never changed since even then. That's totally fine. i feel these episodes may resonate with a rewatch later on after all the other treks. but also, Trek always takes on societal situations. even you two can admit that with TOS. it may lose some... Gravitas with time. but the issues still remain. Some times we old heads forget that time marches on. what hit for us then may not hit for future generations. Nuance and all that. These episodes hit for me since i have gone through similar situations in the past and current. It holds a place for me. but obviously not for you and that is ok. There is still so much more to come, and i hope this makes a rewatch more bearable.

Some Guy

Okay the plot armor joke was good

Actuarial Lurker

Josh- The LA Riots after the Rodney King beating were in 1992, in 1994 we had Newt Gingrich and GOP flip the US House and they had run on cutting welfare programs, limiting Immigration making being undocumented a crime for the first time. The OJ Simpson crime happened in Summer 1994 and the trial started a few weeks after this 2-parter aired. So the writers were infusing the start of the "culture wars" into the show Avery Brooks was the ONLY African American lead actor in ANY show on network TV and then Voyager introduced a female captain, which led to a LOT of racism and misogyny where even the proto- Internet which really blew up in 1994 with the release of Netscape and online forums led to the start of 4-chan like crap about Black vulcans. female captains and a Black station commander... My wife is a BIG Janeway fan and we both like her and B'Elanna the half Klingon female engineer since they are strong women who "show rather then tell" their ability to do traditional male jobs. So basically there was a LOT of culture war stuff raging NOW that started right about when this episode was written and aired- I agree that it was a bit preachy but given Gene's idea for the show it is understandable given the vibe of the times. My wife and I are NYC area "libs" as you and Alex jokingly call it and some of the current Star Trek shows were unwatchable even to us because not only did episode content become "woke" but some of the series focusing on "pronouns", gender fluidity, gay characters kissing on screen like we are watching an afternoon special or HR video about tolerance rather than a star trek franchise or even basic science fiction.... What I like about DS9 and Voyager is that you forget that Sisko is Black and Janeway is female- he is just a great dad who lost his wife and is trying to raise his son who is chasing after older Dabo girls and Janeway is stuck dealing with tough decisions in her first command all alone far away from Mark (her significant other), The Federation etc.

Kosh Naranek

Cringe take incoming (Josh)...I was in my early 20's and very idealistic when this episode aired. NAFTA was one year old and I was someone who very much opposed that trade deal. Alas, globalization was going to happen and Clinton put it on steroids. The episodes were boring, yes, but the was an aspect of the story that resonated with me at that time. The working class was hollowed out and put behind gates. The only difference between the show and the world we live is the rich live behind the gates. Alex somewhat alluded to it in his last crashout about the writers and limousines. Sometimes these folks really do care even though they are a cog in the larger machine. I get it, I'm being preachy...it just hits differently, for some, if you were a young adult living in that time vs a 5-year old. OK, I'm burning my soapbox now. Looking forward to the next episode.

Evan Guthrie

Incoming comments making comparisons to vaguely similar sociopolitical phenomena

harrypothead42024

Here, you fix it :The Double Episode. Back in the day shows used to do this kind of crap every once in awhile. It was never as often as the, Very Special Episodes, but it was never even close to being as sincere. These "issue" shows don't do anything good, The people who don't care, get shown the issue is dumb, and the people who were already on the "good side" feel pandered to, if not made fun of. I also feel it gives off an accusatory quality, as if to say all of us regular people should stop watching T.V. and fix this.

Actuarial Lurker

Josh- is Voyager G.L.O.W. because of Janeway and B'Elanna ?

Actuarial Lurker

@VINA and @River Acheron. I'm 59, so was 29 in 1995 and this was a few months after the crime and 3 weeks before the trial of OJ Simpson, a few months later Bill Clinton caved in and did not veto the new Crime Bill that led to private prisons and he also signed the GOP Immigration bill that made being undocumented a crime, it also was when they passed Welfare Work laws where if you didn't prove you tried to have a job you had benefits cut so a LOT of the "culture war", ICE, lack of social safety net stuff was part of the Nov 1994 elections where the GOP flipped the House and that was just 2 months before this episode aired In 1992 Bill Clinton ran as a corporate Democrat but who "felt your pain" and people thought he would veto some of these things and demand less strict new laws. Instead he was worried about being reelected in 1996 and just caved in to everything. For younger people on this Patreon he was essentially like Joe Manchin and Krysten Sinema were under Biden but worse....it was as if Biden had appeared on stage and signed laws written by the Freedom Caucus after they won the House in 2022 So that was the political context right when the writers would have been crafting this script...

Actuarial Lurker

The Eugenics Wars were NOT nuclear wars- they were conventional wars fought with genetically enhanced warriors. The Colonel Greene style trials in Encounter at Far Point WERE nuclear wars that are implied but not explicitly stated to have happened sometime in the mid 2000s say 2040s So the Bell riots in 2024 would NOT be in the context of a nuclear wasteland but be part of the collapse of Western society that would have occurred just before a WWIII, So this does NOT violate canon.

Narnman

This episode has a couple of spectacular quotes "Errol Flynn was born in Tasmania!" "And check your email buddy, you're a loser too!" Lastly I'm so impressed they got the myth the legend Rick Astley to appear

Some Guy

In 2024. Just because.

Some Guy

Oh man now you have me hoping some future star trek show time-travels back to the Irish reunification of 2024

SetsunaYuki

Afterschool Special Bashir had me laughing for a good 2 minutes.

Ryan Roach

Literally the exact same thing.

River Acheron

He was absolutely insufferable. I would say as a character he was an "E" rating in this episode. I have a hard time thinking of a worse Bashir moment.

River Acheron

I saw on Nostalgia Critic, that shows like Sonic the Hedgehog ended every episode with a Very Special Moment. Ew. And then you had these TV specials like Cartoon Allstars To The Rescue which was a scam because it turned out to not have a real plot but was a PSA to keep kids sober. Like wtf? And the infamous commercial of Pee Wee Herman: "This....is crack" What was wrong with the late 80's to the mid 90's? Everything was a "lets stop to give you guys a VERY special message." For real, like what was wrong with that era?

River Acheron

Josh, why does TV have to have a risk or stakes though? Something can be enjoyed knowing said person will be just fine, no? I understand where you're coming from but does there have to always be something at stake? Thats only one TYPE of fiction. If we watch The Simpsons and we know Homer is not gonna get killed doing one of his goofy stunts, does that take anything away from the show?

Michael Nemo

Woke's definition has changed over time. Woke is a pejorative now. It didn't used to be.

Target Audience

It doesn’t have to, but THEY brought it up and introduced the stakes. “But Bell died” (music swells, fade to black). Once you do that, it’s on you to then pay that off somehow imo.

River Acheron

I understand all that (although I did have to look up some of the things you mentioned lol) and yea, that's fine! My only issue is, maybe a lot of us in our 20's or younger don't understand all that so it wouldn't resonate with modern audiences so ANY episode like this, by its nature, gets dated. I know these issues are still important, moreso after your post here, but I cannot help but still think this makes for a boring episode(s). Is it horrible? Nah. I gave it an M for Meaningless because I just happen to hate retrofutureism. But okay...if I HAD to give it a real grade? It would teeter between C- and a D+ I cannot give it an E because that's reserved for Shades of Gray, Pen Pals, Code of Honor, ONE DS9 episode much later that we ALL know, and one Voyager episode that we ALL know, and while I have no doubt Josh probably learned the name of this infamous episode by now, I won't take the chance and say that episode name. That is in my opinion an E episode. When I rate something an E (or a 1 in a 1 to 10), it is irredeemablly bad. No so-bad-it's-good, no unintentional humor, no positive qualities ar all. Not even Sub Rosa or Aquel gets an E because they are ENTERTAININGLY bad. (Aquel comes close at D-) This episode doesn't come close to that. So, C- or D+

River Acheron

Exactly! He's just there with zero explanation making his weirdo noises and looking around. Tell me that wouldn't be hilarious.

River Acheron

Given the nature of the episode and the ending, I don't know how they could have paid that off tbh. 🤔 Yeah, don't get me wrong, as I stated I have my own reasons for disliking this episode(s), and for me it's the lowest point of season 3.

River Acheron

That proves my point. At the TIME it mattered more. The issue with episodes like this is they get DATED quickly. Even if these issues DO still happen now, a younger, more modern audience is not going to connect the dots the way a 90's audience would. Look at South Park. Try watching any political episode or even a political joke from the first 6 seasons. I have to watch it with one hand while googling the joke with the other. There was one about that Cuban boy and a custody battle. I had to google it to see that the entire country was talking about it in the 90s but who the hell knows about that now, and more to the point how is that relevant anymore anyway? THATS my issue! It's not a bad episode PER SE. It's expiration date elapsed. It expired. I think that's what turns me off.

River Acheron

Either way, my personal take is, woke/progressive is fine. However it has to be current and modern. Taking about some hot take about a social ill about powerful bankers in 1400's Florance may have been eye-opening back then, but it's outdated. It's not even woke anymore, because we solved that problem. It already Awokened :P

Vexx

Oof fiery commentary from the dudes. This episode certainly had the subtlety of a baseball bat though.

SetsunaYuki

I think WW3 is after this? The Eugenics Wars happened in the 90s.

CommodoreDecker

This two-parter is boring and the story is mostly dumb. Josh's white board reaction was spot on. I agree with the message: poverty is bad. However, the episode is a terrible way to talk about it.

GamingHour2018

I am sorry they didnt like it because its one of my fav two parter

Mr Moxie

You have to remember that this was written in the 90s, back then people could afford houses and Pizza Hut personal pan pizzas. Back then, these ideas were a fictional fantastical cautionary tale for the future, not an overplayed "do better, senator" heard it 1000 times reflection of the current day. I'm not saying it makes it great, but I did want to clarify that this story was a far more novel idea at the time than you guys are giving it credit for, the 90s weren't at all this bad. Remember, the 90s had livable wages and Pizza Hut personal pan pizzas!

Sleeper

I do like this episode even though I do prefer when they mask the political topics with aliens, I think this is a good story still for what its trying to be. But that said this is what I point to when people try to say Trek is political, this is one of the biggest example of blatant political message story. That said it did commit the #1 sin for Alex I think though, it told him how he should feel about something (verses actually invoking those feelings through scene), almost guaranteed bad score then. And granted the "ghost" actor was a bit too animated for my tastes.

Matthew McKinnon-Gray

IIRC it was Michael Piller who decided to make this a two parter. In the original outline, it was a single episode, with acts 1-3 being the set up for a hostage crisis in acts 4-5. Piller thought the hostage material was strong enough for a whole episode & told them to expand it. Personally this 2 parters a solid A. I especially enjoy the guest cast.

Philbot

This is the one time they’re complaining “where’s the plot?” 🤦

Steven Linden

Hmm, might skip this one. I enjoy hearing opinions that are different from mine, but not sure I'm up for two hours of denigration of one of my favorite Trek episodes. See you on Voyager!

alyssagynepuppy

Well their reaction was pretty much what i expected.

Nick Marten

“Poverty is bad” isn’t the point. Segregating societal problems so they’re out of view and can be ignored by most people instead of facing the problems is the point.

Philbot

I love BC though he did murder Gabriel Belle 😆

Philbot

Yea supposedly. TWOK should have retconned it out of the 90’s the way I look at it is like a Marvel comic storyline like wolverine didn’t really get infused with adamantium in the 70s.. Historically speaking it either didn’t happen or isn’t widely known about. In my head canon Sealy Booth helped take out Khans regime!

Philbot

This episode is no different from City on the edge of forever Bashirs speech about the future is not unlike Edith’s speculation. If nothing else TCOTEF could have had more to say. Maybe only a couple lines about the depression and where man was going?

Marko

Interesting points, but I think you're denying yourself the possibility to enjoy certain episodes by setting these limits and having those kinds of expectations. Star Trek is not supposed to be our exact universe, but a variation of it. Their 2024 is different than our and it was always going to be that way. By that logic if something in our reality in 40, 50 or a hundred years doesn't happen (and it most likely won't) like it did in Star Trek, the show doesn't loose its' quality. If our 23rd century doesn't have Enterprise-like ships warping across the galaxy it won't diminish the idea of it and the way it has been laid out. But I do understand, one can't help liking or not liking certain things, me included.

Matthew Jimenez

This should have been one episode. And even though it was at times slow at least they took a swing.

Philbot

Do we ever believe the main characters life is in danger? Then again Tasha only lasted 1 season.

Paul O'Neal

Well, I figured you guys would think the first part would drag, because goddamn it really does, but I thought the second part would have pulled the two parter up for you to, say a high C or low B. Not an E for certain! I think having watched this back when it first came out the thought of a bleak future like this in the U.S. of A. was a pretty big stretch. Seems eerily prescient these days. But your comparison of the Star Trek franchise of the 90's to Attitude Era WWE/F was GOLD! And Babylon 5 = WCW? Accurate! If nothing else, your guys reaction made my day. Watching you guys squirm a bit is as entertaining as watching you enjoy the episodes! LOL! Glad to be along for the journey, guys!

Phenomenon (Doo - Dooo - Dah - Doo - Doo)

My dad used to say "There's always gonna be someone in the group that just doesn't like pizza" when faced with someone who dislikes what everyone else loves. Respect their decision even if you strongly disagree with it

D Jammers

Whenever I do a loose re-watch of DS9 I always skip this one because it's not entertaining and boring imo.

Sanchi

When ya have to finance a pizza order over 3 months to afford it its extremely valid to be mad

Sanchi

Feel like that guy who loads up a 'funny' youtube video in front of their friends and they sit there quietly staring at it lmao. Jokes aside it's imo an episode that pushes a pretty accurate representation of how dogshit our actual modern society is although its way too preachy about it. They broke that show don't tell rule. I'd score it a high B just for that atmosphere + shotguns and old school shootouts & the great guest actors (except the billy the kid guy)

Heather M Santell

I agree. I hate the preachy commentary. Very boring episode.

Some Guy

There's a licensed Star Trek novel following the life and times of Khan where it's revealed that he and his various genetic supermen were the shadowy secret figures behind like *all* the world events of the 80s and 90s puppeteering them behind the scenes, leaving in a secret ship from Area 51 built with technology scavenged from stuff left behind by Kirk on his various time travel adventures. It was a fun conceit for a story.

Some Guy

Something tells me Gary Seven was involved

Summer

This is not an a for sure, which given a great season could make it the worst of the season, however Sisko was very fatherly of Bashir, mostly his character but I also wonder if in the beginning of planning he was supposed to be Jake inseam of Bashir. They could have done a better job illustrating their point. Sorry I have no wrestling jokes for you, haven’t watched since watching with my brother in the nineties so I barely remember some of the big names. I just can’t wait for you to see other episodes. But first to my darling Voyager. But I have a question, a few episodes of season three are now on YouTube, are we no longer doing the patreon teir ranking (its fine if not just wondering)?

James

When I last watched these episodes I didn't notice the "preachyness" of them, now that I've watched it with you guys I can see it now, I would have thought this would be a C teir episode before this reaction. Thanks for making me dislike this episode now instead of being indifferent about it.

paultardspambot .

Thats ir for me. Unsubbing, peace. Its been fun.

Summer

I hate temporal mechanics

Back Flip Bet

My head canon, I moved eugenics wars to 2030s, and ww3 to 2070s. That way I can keep star trek perpetually Infront of today.

Back Flip Bet

Voyager has some of the best high concept sci fi ideas. Then brain melting holodeck episodes. No middle ground lol.

Back Flip Bet

That episode will be banned in the UK

Wizardling

Agreed. I don't think people who grew up mainly this century, really understand how important television was to highlighting societal problems and making the general populace wake up and take notice. For many people, TV was all they had, all they saw, that showed them life and ideas outside of their own little local world. I can appreciate not everyone likes this style of episode, but it is undeserving to suggest nothing ever changed as a result of TV like this.

Wizardling

I dunno, I personally find this particular episode to be especially relevant nowadays….

Wizardling

If you think women's lib is only history and we're all past that now… well, with respect, you're lucky and/or insulated from much of the way the rest of the world really is.

Back Flip Bet

It's cool that the romulans expanded to one solar system away from earth. They've been busy!

Wizardling

Guys, the point wasn't to have our 24th century characters change. It was to show what life could be like and is like, if we conveniently ignore the reality of other people's suffering - because out of sight, out of mind. And to provoke us into thinking about how that self-deception happens so very easily. Our inadvertent time travellers already live in in a utopian post scarcity society (though being in Star Fleet, they step beyond that more than most citizens of The Federation). They didn't need to change. We - then (in the '90s) and now - need to change.

Ryry28

E C DUB! EC DUB! EC DUB!

River Acheron

THATS the episode I wanted to see! More of the consequences of the Federation being wiped out by messing with the timeline. The stuff in 2024 should have been HEAVILY shaved, Bashir's speeches cut out, etc. This is one instance where I would have preferred more of the sci-fi aspect of the plot. They tease us with the Romulans expanding their empire to basically Earth's doorstep and blueballed us!

River Acheron

Difference is, Bashir wouldn't shut up about it the entire runtime. It only needed to be said once.

River Acheron

Tasha doesn't really count, to be honest. Real life issues caused that to happen. And I need to be honest right now. I think she was underused (her big gripe) because.....okay, so Denise Crosby is not a great actress. Her deliveries are all wrong, she's wooden, and not the most talented out of the cast. Just being brutally honest. Not just Trek, but everything I have seen her in, which includes; The Walking Dead, Pet Sematary, Mortuary, Dolly Dearest and the Creepshow revival. I think that's the main reason why....what happened happened. I don't mind! I'm a shlock-horror fan! bad acting is something I am very used to, and very forgiving of and I find charming and sometimes funny. But that doesn't change things. shrugs.

River Acheron

Even if that's so, it's told via a 1990's vantage point and method of storytelling, and it doesn't SPEAK to a 2026 audience. Episodes like this, regardless if the issue is still going on, gotten better, gotten worse, or straight up vanished....well, they have a shelf-life. Plus, the message should never EVER EVER put the plot on the sideline. I think that's something else that modern audiences don't put up with now. Sisko and Bashir only had to make mention of it once, and it would have been fantastic. But instead it was literally an after-school special with speech after speech and you know what THAT does? It shatters the fourth wall, because when it's THAT obvious that they are lecturing the audience directly, all immersion is broken. All I know is, when I watched this episode, I found myself saying "oh, sweet! Finally!" every time it cut back to the Defiant. Not a great sign lol I would have preferred the second part to be Kira and Miles attempt timeline after timeline, in a goofy rescue attempt. What we got with them was a highlight and I wanted to see more of that.

River Acheron

I realized something else. While I am fine with exposition in episodes like this, I think explaining things to Bashir was a mistake, and made him look like an idiot. I'm not very political, but I know who Martin Luther King is, and what he looked like, and everything about that. You're trying to tell me that Bashir, a Starfleet graduate, and an extremely intelligent man doesn't know anything about this pivotal event, Gabriel Bell, etc? Explained in this episode as a moment of national change maybe even MORE groundbreaking than MLK. I am supposed to believe that Starfleet Academy or even Federation schools for kids do not teach Earth History!? I call MASSIVE bullshit. They should have made it Sisko and Kira. Sisko explaining Earth history to her would have felt 500% more natural to the viewing audience. Yes, a lot would have to be rewritten because she's not a doctor, but imagine her empathy for these people, being an ex...lets call her freedom fighter...? I think not ONLY would the exposition be more natural and realistic, but it would have made for a much better storyline, and there could have been an added bonus into character growth for Kira...maybe understanding Humans a little better and realizing they have a close emotional kinship with Bajorans. Perhaps she forms a bond with Webb's son, Danny? Those two talking and understanding the state of things could have been SO much better than Bashir's stupidly asking questions, and preaching to the audience. It could have even made this episode an 'A' or higher. I don't *loathe* this episode. I know I have been all over the place because it's so impossible for me to give a proper letter grade. I said M for Meaningless half joking, and then conceded it's a C- or D+ but that doesn't work either. If C is baseline mid, this is much worse. But a D+ is too close to E which this is not. So I will give it a percentage. 0% is completely irredeemable and offensive to existance and a 100% is perfect in every way imaginable. (I don't believe any piece of media ever reached either extremes) Final take? I will give it: 41% (or 4.1 out of 10)

River Acheron

It's not a conscious choice where I set these limits. I have always just been turned off by inaccurate retrofuturism. Weirdly enough except the cyberpunk aesthetic. Like Cyberpunk 2077, talks about a different timeline of the 2020s and even the 1990s. But there was actually a mention of a pivotal event in the past which diverges the timeline we know, so I can head canon it into a different spacetime continuum. lol. If they went balls to the wall and made 2024 San Francisco a cyberpunk dystopia, I think I could get behind that. I know, I am by no means the most mature viewer and I can't help having pet-peeves. I'm the first to admit I sometimes dislike things unfairly.

River Acheron

I can make this scene happen with AI. I may. ^_^

Twistator

For 2 people who wanted an entire episode about a pick nick, I don't understand the frustration over them filling out Forms and Bashir at the job interview :D. I mean isn't that exactly what you always ask for? I guess it has to be space forms and job interviews to be fun?

River Acheron

Granted I am from a hyper blue state. I'm afraid of the deep south lol. But its not only that...i know there's a ways to go with women's equality but we are VASTLY better than 1950! So watching something FROM 1950 about womens lib would be outdated in the points it's making AND the WAY its told. I would have NO problem with a modern-minded women's lib woke episode of, I dunno....Severance or a newer Trek or something. But my point is we are past the Women's Lib MOVEMENT we would see in 1971. Does that make sense? The MOVEMENT is over. There's still other work to do of COURSE.

tyranusfan

Often I see people say that they didn't like an episode but your reaction changed their minds. I gotta say, the effect works in reverse as well. I used to think this was an okay episode (not a favorite, but fine), but watching your reaction made me think now that this was terribly boring and badly done.

Target Audience

Holy crap I forgot about those, thanks for reminding me 😅

Summer

Sorry to give you more work

Michael Nemo

Hmmm. I received notices that my comment was liked, but my comment is gone? Was I censored? I know there weren't spoilers in it.

Jonathon Tsagris

Martin Luther King is living memory for a ton of people. How many major figures from nearly 400 years ago, from another country could you name? Especially if the stuff they were famous for was specific to that country?

John

I knew the streak was coming to an end. I'm often wrong about what you will think of an episode, but I knew how unbearable you would find this one.

Ca$hWednesday

E-tier is wild. There are at least 3 Trek two-parters we've seen thus far that are worse than this one. The two biggest problems with Past Tense is it should have been one episode, and there needed to be less of Bashir being somehow bewildered that something like the Sanctuary District existed. I feel that chocking up the episode to "poverty is bad. E-tier" misses the point. I'd rate this one a B.

Target Audience

As Sisko would say “You just. Don’t. GET IT!” 🤣

Numinous2019

Completely agree. Entertainment can be a means to motivate people to stop accepting something about their societies as "just the way things are", or that they themselves are powerless to do anything. We usually process fiction better than reality in terms of initially caring about something.

TC Green

So now I have to pause the reaction to figure out which ECW wrestler corresponds with which DS9 character. Including all the ones you haven’t met yet. Also, Enterprise is totally TNA

Katie Jackson

WOW, I've always really enjoyed this 2 parter. I never realized this one wasn't liked. I think I'll just skip this reaction if it's so hated and wait for Voyager instead.

Numinous2019

Dudes, this was written in the 1990's to express deep concern about the most marginalised in society. Approx 30 years later and this issue has continued to deteriorate. The point of this story is not to make the audience "enjoy" the experience of watching it. Instead we were meant to find it a difficult watch and an alarm bell.

Beagle Boy

Welp .... You guys ... I don't think you get it ... and I don't think you ever will

Christopher Hayes

I looked up the reviews and it is well liked. To me these are even more relevant today and his even harder. They also put in perspective that relatively speaking my life has been pretty good and I'm really not struggling that much. It reminds me to not only have empathy for others, but to support reforms to our system. It also reminds me just how bad it is that our social safety net has been eroded so much recently.

Ca$hWednesday

Patreon comments are horrible. I come across this issue a lot. I'll come back 20 minutes later and I end up finding my comment.

Matthew Aaron Leibner

Appreciate the heads up . My apologies for asking again trying to learn how you have things listed. I see the early episodes but not always available to sync my episode to watch with you simultaneously. You ever do edited YouTube ready with slightly more content for Patreon members only .

Nick Marten

Also the irony of Alex saying (I’m paraphrasing) I get it, it’s bad, but I just want to relax and watch my entertaining show while commenting on an episode with a theme about society engineering systems that make it easier for good people to ignore problems. I understand and appreciate the view that shows can be too heavy handed and hit you over the head with the theme…not sufficiently using metaphors and analogies. But as someone who watched these in Jan. 1995, I don’t think these reach that level. 1995 California was not as bad as portrayed in the show, this was a warning of what could happen if people continued to ignore and look past issues instead of facing them.

Paul

This episode holds a special place in my heart due to my own personal history, when I was 19 for a myriad of reasons, I found myself homeless down in Florida, for several months during the peak summer season. To say it was brutal would be an understatement, I remember one morning, I had been sleeping on the beach and for whatever reason didn't wake up until the sun was already high up in its arc, baking me alive. Over the next few days, I was so sunburnt that my skin started to peel off like I was a snake shedding its outer layer. Wild days. However, it wasn't all bad. I saw the good that humanity can have, a lot of people helped me, gave me money for food, even had a hotel manager put me up in a room for a few days (I was hiding from the sun in an above-ground multistory parking lot when he saw me), no questions asked. You learn to treasure a soft bed and a warm shower, let me tell you. I never got the impression that this episode was talking down to me or calling me "bad" for not being extremely active in fixing homelessness. Merely reinforcing how it's important to keep empathy alive and thriving within your soul. It can be easy for certain events or triggers to damage that connection to others. It's effectively a universal truism; we should want to help the homeless. I like messaging that reinforces that, and I barely even saw it as a political message. It was a very... human message? I do agree this two-parter is on the nose and some scenes are a bit stilted and lifeless, but eh, the "issue" was so tame, and the story still rather interesting with Sisko becoming Bell in a time loop, that I still like it well enough. Solid B on its own, but due to my own history and bias, it has to be up to S tier. Unfortunate you both didn't enjoy it, but that can happen if there's a strong disconnect with how the story is told.

Ca$hWednesday

"Poverty is bad" is not what the episode is trying to get across though. As others in the comments have also mentioned; segregating the unwanted people of society instead of dealing with the underlying issues with society that put them there in the first place is.

Scott B.

Yeah Ive always seen it as a commentary on apathy more than anything else

thesolarwind

Man, y'all were tripping with this one

TC Green

Yeah it’s just boring. Probably would have helped if it was cut down to one episode and did less telling and more showing.

The Ninth Doctor

This. I often skip the reaction now and go straight to the discussion to see what they thought of it, and save myself an hour if they totally hate it. If need be, I circle back and start from the top. Wasn't expecting quite such a visceral reaction to this one (was thinking more "meh"), but as you say, not everyone likes pizza...🖖

Carl Williams

I think part of why this hasn’t aged very well for me is that I don’t understand everyone thinking it was so prophetic - to me it is extremely simplistic and naive, which compounds the preachiness. Maybe it was the hopefulness of the time, but the solution of “hey we just need to REMIND people that homeless people are people too” is at once overly simple and condescending, and exposes the privilege of the writers - “if you all just CARED as much as us!” It’s a reflection of current online folks’ inability to see how complex issues actually are - things aren’t just bad because everyone is too mean. It’s the sci-fi equivalent of. Miss America contestant being asked what her solution to poverty is. Which is also such an anomaly for DS9 as even at this point it’s shades of gray and ability to see issues as complex is a huge asset.

North

I didn't expect they'd like this one much. And, tbf, it has some real flaws - as mentioned, it's pretty much 1.5 eps worth of story stretched out into two, hat guy needed to be directed to dial it back in a big way, the B-plot is obviously padding, etc. But the reductive take, mean-spirited comments about Trek writers tackling social issues, and bottom barrel rating are a bit weird and disappointing.

Carl Williams

That said, “I DONT LIKE YOUR HAT” is peak Sisko

The Ninth Doctor

This. Social commentary doesn't land too well with those who want 'easy watching' and not a reflection of society. Save yourself 2 and a half hours, and skip to the next reaction when it's out. 🖖

Numinous2019

Difficult to fit into one episode though. The initial circumstances for the time travel and why they are at Earth have to be included. Extracting them from the past and the summing up likewise. That doesn't leave much time for seeing the elite citizens and how the sanctuary areas operate. That's even before Sisko having to replace Bell and find a way to save the hostages while not altering the timeline.....and the timelines being altered having to be known.

Target Audience

No, it’s the same edit, just posted here as early as I can get it done.

Jason Aud

Wow! Was looking forward to this one, didn't expect the strong reaction. I liked these way back when, surprised you we so down on it lol. Slow pace, maybe the slower wait aspect to get to part 2. It seems especially relevant now....20 years after the episode at what's going on.

The Ninth Doctor

Go in with no expectations, and you won't be disappointed whichever way their coin lands 👍🏼

Katie Jackson

I completely agree. This 2 parter is high on my list of favorite DS9 episodes, so it surprised me to see so many people in the comments bashing it. I really like Josh & Alex and there opinions are theirs, however I think I'd rather skip a 2 hour reaction that they obviously really dislike and just wait for Voyager instead.

Forbidden Donut

Every time I rewatch this, I'm more and more bored. Posting this between part 1 and part 2, but I doubt it's going to feel much different after 2. Guess I'll see!

Jonathan Llyr

Did they seriously give this an E?!? I’ll be giving this reaction a miss then.

Numinous2019

An E rating!!!!! I give your reactions a G rating, with a minus 1 bonus for departing so much from the widely held respect for this 2 parter. So that's a H rating....with a further minus 1 for every hour that passes without a grovelling apology. And don't tempt me to trawl through the TA archives for ST episodes you both liked that were dubious....that would be another minus 1 per episode. We are going to need to expand the alphabet by the time I get through with you both.

Forbidden Donut

Wait DS9 is 'clearly the Middle East'? Umm... maybe, to a point. Usually people see parallels to 1940s Germany for the Bajoran/Cardassian back story.

Forbidden Donut

On a positive note, at least this isn't the end of Season 3 / beginning of Season 4. Also, most would probably say episodes 3x1-3x10 are not peak DS9, so there's that.

Dee S. Nein!

The weakest part of Back to the Future 2 was the stuff in the "future" - but watching that part of the movie is fun if you're looking to see what they got right and what they got wrong. There's a bit of that, too, in Past Tense. I'm always surprised to see how Past Tense is so highly regarded today. At the time I watched it, I gave it a B-/C+ rating. It's mid. But not nearly as bad as the guys think IMO.

Mark Chrisco

No comment on your reaction and that in Itself is a reaction

Target Audience

It can be interpreted as multiple specific things. That’s part of why it’s good.

Dee S. Nein!

I'm sad to see the chain of "good" episodes broken... but the chain was broken for me back with Meridian and then in Fascination. So we should all be happy the guys got this far in liking all the episodes to now.

Adin

„Do better!“ ahh episode

Dee S. Nein!

When I show this episode for students in a geopolitics class, I edited it down to about 45 minutes... so I guess I never have to sit through the whole thing anymore. Surely it gets a better grade in an edit lol

Drake

remember what u think is boring other see as intresting backstory i liked the szenerie of episode 1 this has 7.9 for a reason :) but then u like the two most disliked star trek movies 1 and 3 the most i give it an A i love this

Numinous2019

SERIOUSLY though I will always respect your opinions even if my own are different. You explained why you rated as you did, so I can see your perspectives.

Banes

When I saw the angle of the one guy's eyebrows in the thumbnail it made me laugh. I laughed and laughed so hard. But it's still early; I haven't even started drinking yet.

Nico

To me this episode has pretty amazing direction, its the first time they use a crane camera in DS9, huge production and sets and costuming, possibly the most background actors of any eps yet, with a classic Trek premise. all done in 12 days of shooting. this ep is certainly not perfect but nothing this well made, directed, acted (especially the gaurd, the clerk, and sisko) could deserve an E. Its interesting how the eps hit you guys with the times and tastes you have, so I'm glad to see the strong reaction regardless, keeps it fun. I'd give this 2-parter a low B. thanks guys.

Matchstick Jose

I think you actually can make a legitimate argument that Past Tense is the worst two-parter DS9 ever did. But that’s because all of DS9’s two-parters are fucking awesome!

Naglfarius

Yeah i also don't like this Episode. But i can't stand your mockery about every thing that happens the whole Episode. Watched with you until the first Part ended, and will not watch the second Part. I have the same feelings about: the over the top "Oh look this is bad, let us Show you this the whole Time to make sure you get it!" And the urge for the Crew to do something. But you Guys have a tendency to hyperfocus on one Part and ride the Horse until it's dead. So it effects your comments on other Scenes that are okay, but you are in your Zone and will have off coure another mockery present. Not worth my Time. -.-

penoyer79

Oh boy, this ought to be fun... LOL

KingPin124

Based on the comments, I’m not even sure I want to watch the reaction now 🙁. This is a very good two-parter. I am usually the FIRST person to call out any woke or preachy bullshit. (Just ask all of the leftist patrons that I offend) I’ve never found this episode to be that at all.

River Acheron

The show also doesn't get to Legend Status until season 4. Trust me.

Deliximus

Same. Always loved this two parter. A real star trek ep that reflects on society

TinMan_7B9

Me after watching this reaction: "Oh, perfect. Just what we need. Two more dims."

Malamute

Hmm,... i actually like these episodes. Not the best, but these 2 episodes are a C to me. Also, i absolutely LOVE how much it pissed you off. Hahaha... Thought your head was going to explode.

Tigers Fan

For next Halloween you should dress up as Pennywise and Coco as you are a pair of clowns for scoring this lower than Meridian.

Loot Narsbaar

When this episode was filmed it was set far in the future not modern earth either

River Acheron

My point is though, Sisko explaining history to Bashir makes Bashir look stupid to the audience. I think Sisko and Kira would have elevated this by FAR. I believe the exposition would have felt more natural, and it could have elevated Kira and her struggles as well which would have been a bonus. It would have been a better story.

Albano Berberi

While I also believe that this set has issues, particularly watching it now as opposed to even three years ago, I really do think the extent of your negative reaction was unwarranted, and pretty disappointing. This is the first time in my year and a half of watching your reaction videos that I actually stopped watching halfway through, just because there really was no point in continuing when it became apparent how much you hated the episodes. And hey, that's totally your right, I'm not saying any of this to blast you guys... I'm just rather shocked is all. I do agree that it's generally preferable to dress human issues in the plot of this future setting. That said, I think it's important, now and then, to strip that mask away and really slap the full discomfort and horrors of the world right down on the table, in full and plain view, and then say hey, this is real, this is happening, we need to do something about it. Did these episodes do this especially well? No. Was the story stretched longer than it should have been? Probably. Are there many other flaws with it that would take far too long to discuss on here? absolutely! But I respect the show for telling the story regardless.

River Acheron

Financing a pizza order? Is this true? 😳

Naglfarius

Had the exact same Reaction!

Summer

This section is the best part of this discussion

Dr. Paul Stubbs

I should have realized that J&A would parse this episode as "Time's Arrow + Force of Nature": padded out two-parter, "historic" Earth setting, time travel technobabble, and transparent allegory to a modern-day issue. Add in the "Jem'Hadar" bait-and-switch of visiting Sisko's sister in DS9-era Seattle getting overridden by the transporter plot in the initial moments of the show for the cherry on top. Just finishing the first part of the reaction now, so I am curious how bad the fallout will be by the time we hit the end of the episode.

Jason Aud

This, exactly. Why I was wondering maybe it's different to me having watched it at the time vs watching it now. Not liking it is fine but seemed like mocking and missing the point IMO.

Target Audience

It’s almost like putting everything we always complain about into one episode will cause us to not enjoy it 🤣

Naglfarius

I am not a Fan of the 2 Parter, but seeing them have to life through the Hell of Paperwork and the long waiting Times was amazing. ^^

Robert Fogarty

Im glad I didn't pay 4.50 to see reaction early.😂 I was tempted tho. Was disappointed that you didn't dig it. I saw it on broadcast release and I guess it hit different back then....

River Acheron

I don't love this by any means, but what baffles me is how can this be an E-Tier for them, when you have Code of Honor? Or Evolution? An E should have zero redeeming qualities. Not even Sub Rosa gets an E IMO. So how in the world do they consider this one of the worst bits of Trek they have even watched? I don't personally care, but I am so interested in how this is the scum on the bottom of the barrel in their eyes. 🤔

Lovok

Totally agree. I've always felt S3 was overrated and only a slight improvement on S2. I've been surprised how much the guys have liked many of these early S3 episodes. "Meridian" is one of the worst eps of Trek and a wholesale character assassination. "Fascination" has some dumb fun in it, but Chief/Keiko stuff aside, is overall boring, plodding, and pointless. "The Search, Part II" is just a giant reset button with a few good Odo/Kira scenes and one big reveal at the end. The second half of the season has a few all-timers and is overall good, but it's S4 onward where nearly every episode is a B or above.

River Acheron

Retrofuturism is so cringe for me. Yeah it's fun to pick apart in an academic way, but Back to the Future 2 is absolutely unwatchable as entertainment because of their laughably awful 2015 part of the movie.

Naglfarius

As example: Chief establishes the Idea of Chroniton around the Ship because of the Cloak. So when we get to the Part, why the Present changed but the Defiant was not effected, it is a really good explanation. It makes Sense in the context of the Episod. But than i see your reactions to the Info... And i really belief in any other Episode where you enjoy the Episode, the explanation gets a Pass, but: "oh no we don't like this Episode, so this is also laughable". Just one example how i felt.

BN13

Well, I completely disagree. This one's an S for me. But then you guys and I watch the show for completely different reasons. To each their own.

EmptyDice

I love these episodes, so I knew you would hate them. I just didn't know you would hate them THAT much. You were so stuck looking down at the message that the plot went above your heads, again.

EnigmaticPenguin

This is on my “Never bother to re-watch.” list. I don’t hate it, but I don’t give a shit about it either. I look forward to some healthy trash talking an episode after such a good streak this season. I missed the sass.

River Acheron

I think that's where I stand at the end of the day. I don't loathe this episode for what it tried to be, but I do NOT like it. It's filler and when I first watched it, I said something like, "oh, okay. Ohhh time to click the next one!" And honestly I don't think I gave this much or ANY thought again until this reaction. Its air. A nothing episode that evokes nothing in me positive or negative. Null Space. Thats why I find it impossible to give it a letter grade. Which has never happened before. I just don't care about this plot.

EmptyDice

It's shows that Bashir, contrary to Sisko, isn't interested in history, especially the bad times of American history. Can you really say that it makes him stupid? He's a doctor, not a historian Jim.

Actuarial Lurker

Most view DS9 as Casablanca in space with Cardis as Nazis, Bajorans as French resistance, Federation as WWII Allies and Quark's Bar as Rick's club

River Acheron

It makes him LOOK stupid to the audience imo. I think having an alien outsider with Sisko would have worked better for TV. And yeah, I do think a better story. Kira seeing that some humans went their version of an "Occupation" (of a sort) would have been fantastic! Better character development for her, better understanding. I would have personally loved that theoretical episode.

Target Audience

You’re correct that in a good episode, smaller things get a pass, and in a bad episode, we roast everything. That is true, but that’s how we’ve always been. Didn’t start with this episode.

Actuarial Lurker

That's because Ron Desantis designed the Starfleet Academy's history curriculum

JoeMama47

These sorts of episodes make me think of Anakin in AotC: "We need a system where the politicians sit down and discuss the problem, agree what's in the best interests of all the people, and then do it." The problem isn't that people don't care and aren't trying to fix it; the problem is that they are complex problems and no one agrees on how to fix it. (And, yes, there absolutely are real people who work against progress).

Matthew Ganz

Probably the worst take Josh and Alex have had in my opinion. Star Trek does social commentary all the time, and plenty of it is as heavy handed as this. You guys always poke fun at the sci-fi and technobabble but then you also say you want your social commentary within a more "star-trek" setting. You complain that the first episode is pure setup, but it's there to inform the viewer about how things really were in a time where the world wasn't as interconnected as it is now, and many atrocities went unnoticed or unreported. The point of this episode is obvious looking 30 years back. Living through this time was much different than reading about it in a book years after the fact. Star Trek has always been preachy (with varying degrees of success) but I feel like you missed the mark on this one. IN FACT the crux of the story is apathy -- yes atrocities happen, but they often only happen when good men, and good women do nothing -- which is why the coda is so powerful "how did we let this happen...." When enough people go along with something -- stop caring and just put their heads down bad things follow...the amount of historical parallels of that happening are immeasurable Your somewhat apathetic response to varying points of this episode is the exact thing this episode tried to show and warn against. Star Trek is more than just a TV show. To so many it was a hope of better things to come. There are countless stories of people who were inspired because of TOS to join the hard sciences -- people who ended up making significant contributions and improvements to this world. This episode is really just Star Trek being Star Trek -- not for it's sci-fi or futuristic setting, but for it's ethos, it's ability to inspire and change, and move towards a more utopian society that Star Trek usually shows. Here's hoping that future episodes are more to your liking.

Kristina Weber

Oh wow, I am so disappointed by how much TA hated this 2-parter. It's not A-tier for me but a solid B-tier. Wish I had put in a patron takes on this just to argue why it's actually good. Especially right now, as under our current administration, there is so much injustice and as a resident of the Minnesota Twin Cities, it is so frustrating when people who are further from the front lines just ignore what is happening. 'It doesn't affect me so who cares, lalala'. I want these kinds of stories from Star Trek, of showing how humanity can become better, can move beyond inequality and inhumanity. It's something that hadn't yet been explored, how did humanity get from the present day (from the show's creation) to this blissful utopia. This is a huge historical event in-universe, and I love that the show wanted to tell this story. Could it have been more tightly written? Maybe, but it's not E tier at all.

River Acheron

I KNEW it! lmao. Damn you, Florida!

Deep Red

Minus 10 points for House Target Audience. And 20 points to Gryffindor!

River Acheron

I don't like to put my head in the sand....I hate what's happening there but the truth is, there's nothing I can do about it. It's a...unfortunate situation. But look, I mean...I have zero power to change anything. I have a hard enough time making changes to my own LIFE lol. I tell people at work how sucky the situation is in Minneapolis and hope that spreads something word-of-mouth, but at the end of the day....im useless.

Numinous2019

I'm 57 and while I was a young teen I watched 'Silent Running' and got depressed. The 1970's SF movies I saw were all depressing and most were stark warnings about where we were headed. Even in the 1950's, SF novelists were already drawing on long term patterns in human nature/society to sound the alarm about the advertising industry (The Space Merchants), environmental decline, militarisation, economics and corporations, etc. Maybe Past Tense works better for people already primed for that sort of approach from exposure to previous SF.

Deep Red

Yeah, there is something to be said for just evaluating a piece of media completely on its own. But no artistic evaluation is made in a complete vacuum. And this isn't a case of "oh this didn't age well". If anything, it's one of the most well-aged episodes Star Trek ever did. It's important to keep having these conversations. Art should not be limited to one single function.

Numinous2019

That's an extremely good take.

Kristina Weber

@RiverAcheron Not to turn this into a political discussion, but you absolutely can do something. You can vote, yes even in state and local elections. You can donate to aid and civil rights organizations. You can donate goods to immigrant families in hiding. You can protest. Saying you have zero power to do anything is a cop out. Just speaking for myself, I have no time at all for people who say they care and do nothing. Bullshit.

River Acheron

You did say you enjoy the bad episodes so that's good! If you got comical joy out of it, it's a win.

Deep Red

Ah okay, so I'm not the only one who does that, haha. Glad I don't have any expectations for Voyager

Ken R

Strange comments about limousines and resenting people for imaginary reasons.

River Acheron

I AM vocal in telling others what's going on. I try. And yea, I ofc vote. I also donate to a refugee organization every month. It's not that I don't do ANYthing. I'm just cynical on how much that actually helps. Plus I don't think very highly of myself in general and I feel like I am useless in EVERY walk of life. That's what I was getting at. Im also stoned rn and a little depressed so sorry for being morose.

Deep Red

It's funny how much everyone in the comments is talking about how unsubtle the episode's social commentary is. And yet most still think the point of the episode is "poverty bad"

Scott Chegg

You see, I saw this episode for the first time in 2023 hence why I gave it an S as it was an exciting glimpse into the distant future.

Summer

Doing morality plays is tough, especially when you want something akin to real world, I understand the complaints about direction and some of the story, but in its purest form this is Trek, this isn’t my favorites episode of even this week, and never tempt me to rewrite, but for the episode we had it had a Trek message, maybe its hard to see but since we know what it is that can become our focus. The point is if we treat each other horribly, even between those in the sanctuary, it will end poorly for everyone no matter the economics. Lets all be aware there will be episodes of DS9 like this that likely Josh and Alex will not care for, that is ok, as long as we all discuss things with respect

Allen W Wright

“You just don’t understand, do you?” - Errol Flynn’s Robin Hood (appropriate for this episode)

Doctor Pulaski

Thanks for sharing Paul. These problems don't get enough attention in our society in my opinion, so I can't get on board with those being crabby that they have to be confronted with hard truths in their "entertainment". I'm not defending the execution of the episode (I grade it a D, should have been one part), but the fact that it has a message is not the thing that is wrong with it. When I say these issues don't get enough attention, it is because I encounter an alarming number of people who are somehow blissfully unaware of a lot of serious social issues like this. I did not come to realize or accept this was even possible until I got older -- when I was Josh and Alex's age, I assumed everyone was much more on the same page, and like them I would get frustrated with what I perceived as "virtue signaling".. Then bad stuff happens, you see people's true colors, and you realize the world if just full of ignorant people. Not evil people, just completely ignorant. All that being said, it is definitely bad art when things are too "on the nose" - The Falcon/Captain America "Do Better Senator" is a great example of this. (I'd argue much worse than this episode even, because at least this episode was dystopian sci-fi at the time of its release, even if that did not age well.)

Kristina Weber

Ok then you are doing something. Sorry for getting snippy with you. I don't think the point of this is that everyone needs to be Rosa Parks. But imo it is our moral responsibility to try to stand up for what's right. Maybe each of us will only make a small difference, but collectively, when it's millions of people, we can be powerful. Personally, I feel like I need to be able to look my kid in the eye and say I did what I could, that I tried to make the world a better place for her and for our community. And bringing it back to Star Trek, you can tell that Sisko feels the same way.

David H

Its not my favorite 2 parter as I think it boring but its no where near an E. I like part 2 better than part 1. Theres no way this is as bad as move along home. Its probably a C- for me

AdmiralMurphy

A lot of people have said what I would say in defense of this episode. I will say its probably not in my top 10 like I thought before but I still believe its a great part 2. One is indeed slow. I think so much hate from a first time view now is that so much of Hollywood is preachy activism now that does nothing that people are tired of it. I do feel that takes away now from an episode that's message and story to me showed more the human condition in situations like this riot and and the change it can bring. You can change the poverty stuff and apply this exact same scenario to something else. I do whole heartly agree though with setting stories like this in a fictional universe and not "modern times". I don't hate it here like I do in other works but because I hate it elsewhere I completely see why people hate the setting of this ep.

International Man of Leisure

I had a feeling they wouldn't like it. They had mentioned in the past that they didn't like "heavy handed" messages that basically told the viewer what to think. I think I'll skip this reaction. Better episodes ahead. It's just too bad it'll take longer to get to them now that we'll have to juggle with Voyager.

Marko

I heard the inspiration for the Bajoran-Cardassian dynamic were the wars in the Balkans in the 90's. Specifically conflict between Serbia and Bosnia. As a Serbian myself I heard that information very early on.

Marko

Or you can give this reaction an E. I know I do.

Doctor Pulaski

Biddle Coleridge was indeed absolutely the worst guest character in all of Trek, I 100% agree with this. He always came off as so cringe to me.

jon bolton

I knew you'd either love or hate this one, i wasn't sure which. I think i got my answer😂. This one has grown on me more over time, it's certainly not a Season favourite, but i like it a lot, mid B, which for Season 3 is relatively low ranking.

Ken R

Worst two part episode? I think I have to go with the Worf's father two parter.

Doug

Well, that sucks, I've been looking forward to these episodes since we started season 3

Marko

Damn, I'm sorry you had to go through that. But I am glad you are apparently doing much better today. And I can only assume your experience made you appreciate more some of the things we all take for granted.

Some Guy

I am now forced to imagine Samuel Clemens showing up in every single first part of every two parter of the series and the results are hilarious. “Mmm-hrrn! Resistance is - Ahah! - Futile! Wooo." He's just inexplicably on Romulus with Spock in the spy photos. Data hearing the Twain-sounds instead of the blacksmith hammer in his first dream.

EmptyDice

I would have had more fun watching wrestling than the guys had watching this episode. So, I get it, it would also ruin my day if I was forced to watch wrestling.

Marko

That's interesting. I never liked this episode a lot, but seeing them react to it the way they did makes me think this episode is much better than I thought.

Nick Marten

I watched and enjoyed it. I love these guys, even when I disagree with them. Seeing them react positively to things I dislike or am indifferent to, or negatively to things I like is entertaining and informative. I don’t have a compulsion to only watch things that reinforce my view. The above said, if I think there’s something in their reaction worth commenting on (like missing the primary theme here), I’m going to comment.

Who North America

Okay... I am SO GLAD you disliked this 2-parter because I thought I was alone in hating it! From the absolutely STUPID "slang" to the sanctimonious "preaching to the choir" storyline and lazy dialogue... and so many people seem to like this one. I never understood why. But, hey, I liked Captain's Holiday and Invisible Friend, so what do I know?

Some Guy

No, don't you understand? At the end of back to the future part three, when the time machine gets run over by the train, the Mr. Fusion is intact by the side of the railway! Someone obviously scrounged it and reversed engineered it and created that bizarre alternate future downstream of that time loop.

Some Guy

Players change but the game keeps being played.

Summer

No I do agree with those taking them to task for their attitude, disliking this is one thing, being dismissive toward writers they don’t know is not. Though I will add I was probably half ready because I knew they wouldn’t like this one

Marko

I didn't skip it, but I agree on hearing different opinions as long as they have a reasonable delivery and arguments, which they do, a lot of the times. Also, a lot of the times they never go deeper than the surface level analysis which is disheartening. But in this one all they do is whine and act smug throughout it, which is very obnoxious.

Ken R

That one wasn't great but I liked the hook of them finding Data's head at an archeological site and then they have to investigate. Twain was a little annoying, true.

Malamute

I love Silent Running. One of my favorite Sci Fi Movies. :-)

Matchstick Jose

Look, this is clearly the price the universe demanded for the praise of Meridian and Fascination. Past Tense had to be sacrificed. Equilibrium had to be maintained. Perfectly balanced, as all things should be.

Whiskey61 .

I hated this one too. I'm not allowed to talk about why I don't like it yet, maybe one of these years.

BN13

I like this episode for many reasons, but I do agree that framing it as "people just forgot how to care" doesn't address the real complexities of the issue at all. I also don't feel that this episode is prophetic in the same sense that a lot of people do. I do feel that it is prophetic in the sense that I believe that eventually, even if it takes us 1000 years, we will get to a Star Trek like Type 1 civilization future. But we're going to have a lot of bad stuff along the way in order to get there. Basically, we won't get there until we're forced to. I see this episode as showing what will eventually happen once AI exposes the problem that we already have; that we have WAY more people than jobs that are actually needed. As automation increases, eventually we're going to get to the point where unemployment is the norm, and we may have a ton of sanctuary districts just like this where the majority of people live. Eventually, society will have to figure out a completely different economic model that doesn't rely on jobs, and is more like the Federation where everything is resource based, and technology allows us to eliminate resource scarcity. But until we get there, we're going to have a lot of problems we can no longer ignore, a lot of death, and a lot of civil unrest as the old systems no longer work, but we also have no replacement.

BN13

I like this episode for many reasons, but I do agree that framing it as "people just forgot how to care" doesn't address the real complexities of the issue at all. I also don't feel that this episode is prophetic in the same sense that a lot of people do. I do feel that it is prophetic in the sense that I believe that eventually, even if it takes us 1000 years, we will get to a Star Trek like Type 1 civilization future. But we're going to have a lot of bad stuff along the way in order to get there. Basically, we won't get there until we're forced to. I see this episode as showing what will eventually happen once AI exposes the problem that we already have; that we have WAY more people than jobs that are actually needed. As automation increases, eventually we're going to get to the point where unemployment is the norm, and we may have a ton of sanctuary districts just like this where the majority of people live. Eventually, society will have to figure out a completely different economic model that doesn't rely on jobs, and is more like the Federation where everything is resource based, and technology allows us to eliminate resource scarcity. But until we get there, we're going to have a lot of problems we can no longer ignore, a lot of death, and a lot of civil unrest as the old systems no longer work, but we also have no replacement.

River Acheron

I was thinking the same thing. There ARE things about this that...well we will get there a long time from now.

Summer

I agree but watching it this time I recognized that he is supposed to be, being on the border of stable he is supposed to be over the top, maybe he shouldn’t have been a main focus

Malamute

The only thing i enjoyed about the reaction was watching Alex's face get ultra red and having spaz outbursts. I enjoyed that. :-D

Summer

I felt like that last week, two weeks till the next DS9 and another week till the next and its hard to wait, though I adore Voyager

Summer

I smiled at that, I also would hate to be forced to watch wrestling, I would not be a good captive in that situation (in case any one wonders I did watch it a lot with my brother when I was 9 34 years ago.)

Numinous2019

That's why I was so depressed after watching it. Because it is such an effective and moving film and its message is so existential.

Malamute

Some of us cheered when Tasha died... ;-)

Ca$hWednesday

I too like the look of the "one guy's" eyebrow angle.

EnigmaticPenguin

Based on TA's feelings on this episode, Star Trek VI and the 9/11 allegories in New BSG, I think their overall stance is always going to be that just because something is based on truth or real history doesn't mean it's a good episode or movie to them. It's a complete non-factor in their appraisal.

Ca$hWednesday

I legitimately laughed out loud in the office.

Summer

I realize I was only a year or two older than Josh and Alex are now when I first saw this about 12 yers ago, this is the benefit of ALWAYS rewatching all episodes, when I first saw it I was annoyed feeling it was interrupting the story, but today with you all I can see some value in it, as I get older with my disabilities I can appreciate what the writers wanted to do a little more. It is a funny thing, you don’t even realize your opinion is changing. That is one of the things I like about watching with multiple reactors. Even when I disagree you bring out something I had not thought of and make me watch episodes I often skip. See you Sunday, Friday and Sunday for Voyager than the Wednesday after that for more DS9 (fpr some fellow patrons thats Monday, Saturday, next Monday and the next Thursday)

Joshua Gudiso

It’s analogous to colonialism as well. Think of the Scramble for Africa.

International Man of Leisure

Just a little bit harder for me. I wanna see their reactions to something coming up in a another couple DS9 episodes or so and I hate waiting! Plus, unfortunately, I am...uh, not a fan of Voyager. 🤷 I have no desire to do a rewatch (never have in 30 years), but I am a fan of this channel, so I might grit my teeth.

Kerplang

Boring episodes, bad writing. Wtf was that weird bit with the guy who took Dax's combadge about? Really odd. D

David Kirk

Very easy to guess TA would really hate this and I give it a D-. Lot better episodes to come though!

Summer

I get that, watching several more DS9 season 3 with another reactor the last few weeks made me remember all I love about season 3. But I have never watched Voyager and DS9 together in order so that will be new. For you it will make DS9 reactions more precious

Trillhouse

- I don't think the "Wrath of Khan" is the best thing since sliced bread. - I've always thought "The Jem'Hadar" was kind of weak and uneven. - I never knew people hated Meridian until a couple weeks ago and always thought it was pretty decent. - I've always loved "Past Tense". All of this to say, I'm usually on the same page as you guys, or at least can see your POV. That said, I have to admit, this one is rough. I get that you guys weren't alive when this aired, so I'm trying my best to see this objectively from your perspective. To do that, I asked myself "How would I feel if Starfleet Academy dropped an episode this week where they time travelled to San Francisco 2056, the city is consumed by an opioid epidemic, everyone is strung out, and the characters were talking about how treating addiction improperly lead to society collapsing"?. Would I feel that was preachy and heavy handed? Honestly, the answer is probably "yes". I would roll my eyes, say some shit about Academy's bad writing, and tear them up on Reddit with the other nerds. Where I hope you guys can entertain the other POV though, is in considering how it's *not* exactly the same as that analogy I just threw out. The difference is in the visibility: most of us see the opioid problem today walking to work, and even if they don't, it's at least plastered in every headline of our 24 hour online news cycle. If you already know something is a problem, having someone spell it out for you in no uncertain terms, is going to feel like they are talking down to you and treating you like an idiot. However, as many people have already mentioned in the comments here, that wasn't the same with homelessness in the 90's. The 90's in America were peak prosperity (see: Pizza Hut pan pizza comment). Many people literally didn't see homelessness, especially if they owned a tv set in the suburbs. Homelessness was a thing of the "past" or relegated to movies and fiction, where "crazy hobos" would be villains or comic relief. It wasn't the stuff of "real life". Every day our media sold us the idea that Things Were Getting Better™. The portrayal of large-scale Sanctuary District at that scale was straight-up dystopian Fiction, and for some, completely laughable. In contrast, now I basically have one down the street from me. That's the irony here: some would have mocked this episode at the time for portraying homelessness at this "silly" scale, while viewers today seeing it for the first time might mock it because "No shit, it's so obvious. Why you preaching to me about this, Boomer?". "Past Tense" not only warned us that its real, but humanizes the "crazy hobos", by trying to hammer home that you're only one layoff from it happening to You - prosperous, pan-pizza-eating You. The episodes aren't trying to "talk down" to you as much as they are trying to "wake you up" and make you realize that we haven't fixed everything yet. In the 90's this was against the grain. Are they perfect episodes? No, but an "E" feels harsh. I also agree that Trek is often at its best when using fictional allegory instead of direct comparison. I think the disconnect here is in understanding that for many viewers in '95, this was so far from their reality that it did feel like fictional allegory. Regardless, I can never say you guys don't give us your honest thoughts, which I appreciate.

Ca$hWednesday

People shit on Voyager? I know it's maybe not everyone's favourite, but I don't think I've heard anyone outright hate it.

Target Audience

Not sure how else to make it clear at this point 😭 It doesn’t make it bad either. Measure of a Man (Slavery), The Drumhead (McCarthyism), The Defector (Cold War), Duet (Holocaust), and plenty of others are all excellent episodes, but not because their message is accurate. It’s because they are excellent episodes of Star Trek. It’s great to talk about the themes or messages, and of course they have their place in media and can impact people, but we are watching this as a TV show, and “Complete non-factor” is the best description for things that aren’t related to the quality of the tv episode in the context of our channel.

Target Audience

I agree, very easy to guess if you’re thinking about what we’ve liked and disliked

DG

I wonder whether recording reactions in the morning is such a good idea. I kept moving the timecode forward in 30 second increments, until I started to suspect the wrestling comparsion in itself was going to be a rare TA mid-season two-parter.

Boggle

And yet they love Melora, which is the biggest offender of preaching and heavy-handed messages and entitlement.

Ca$hWednesday

That one has some other things going for it besides "the message". Hopefully they'll find something of value in that one.

Target Audience

I think this is 100% correct. I said as a reminder in the first video intro of this season that we are watching this in the perspective of 2026. That doesn’t mean anyone has to agree or like it, that’s just our perspective. I believe this episode is the best example of this in quite a while. I have no idea what it was like in 1995, I’m watching it now. That’s how we’ve always done things. I’m not saying anyone has to like that, but we are extremely open about it.

The Sisko

I did leave a negative Patreon take, but the episodes were even worse than I remember. Could be the fact that on a rewatch, I knew nothing riveting was ever going to happen. The message unfortunately is still as relevant as it was back then, but that doesn't make this a good episode. Overall A for the intent, but E for the execution.

Boggle

Yeah, it's eye-rolling at times when they openly mock things with elitest dismissal. Once they get triggered, it honestly doesn't matter what comes after that in the episode, they are already in mockery mode. But hey, that's part of the channel and I've long accepted it as being the norm. The pros outweigh the cons.

River Acheron

Wrath of Kahn is so overrated it's mind boggling how it's considered some classic

Target Audience

We’ve done several more reactions since changing our schedule to the morning…. None of them are like this lol.

Ca$hWednesday

Star Trek timeline is not our timeline. It's a utopian version of our future. Of course 2024 in Trek history is not going to be our 2024.

Malamute

Oh, and ya'll should definitely NOT be doing these reactions in the morning. Ya'll a bunch of Grumpy Mf'rs in the morning. Hahaha... ;-p

Jeff Cornell

"Star Trek was always woke, just look at (episode) as an example!" (points to one of the worst episodes in the franchise) Every time.

Summer

I suppose if we want a historical figure to compare it to, a patriot in Delaware July 2 1776 who decided to vote for the declaration of independence or a minute man in the first battle of the revolution. But yes Bashir could have looked better, I wonder if Jake was supposed to be there and have some of those lines, it would have smoothed it out some

Groovybaboon

I’ll have to watch this later. Judging by the comments looks like you don’t like one of my favorites. lol. Ah well, thanks for giving it a shot! Looking forward to your thoughts!

David Kirk

Please watch it as it will be very entertaining to hear your reaction. ;-)

Numinous2019

The Flynn Robin Hood is as close to a perfectly realised film as we humans will likely ever come.

Trillhouse

Thanks for replying. Yeah, not all media ages the same, and I think we're witnessing that in action. I'm an elder Millenial pushing GenX, and I can't be "upset" with you guys any more than a Boomer would probably be pissed at me for reading something completely different regarding TOS. That said, if nothing else, the fact that there's 350+ posts talking about this today shows that the franchise at least isn't afraid to take big swings that generate discussion. It whiffed for you guys, but that's cool. Keep up the good work.

Scott Woodward

You say that. And yet somehow I bet I could survey 100 people who've seen this episode at random and predict exactly what 'vaguely similar sociopolitical phenomena' comes to their minds ahead of time. Wish I lived in a world where the comparison was a little more vague and a lot less on the nose, all I'm saying.

Jack Molitor

Well, the worst according to the people who don’t like them.

Ben K.

It's entertaining when you guys get really pissed off at an episode. I was never a big fan of this 2 parter either.

Summer

Also, so this gets lost in comments, we need some sort of deep conversations on three of their posts the day before they watch season 4 so they have something to tell us during the theme and forget to look at the screen, shhh

River Acheron

It almost has an 8.0 rating on IMDB my dude. Hated by you, yes. But the "woke" episodes actually have the best ratings. I cannot talk about upcoming ones but...yeah.

Boggle

I like these episodes, although they aren't as good as most of the earlier ones in the season. They are generic 'C' episodes to me. I figured the TA guys would hate them, as they are the sort of episodes they hate the most. Well, outside of Melora, which they love despite it being the 100% worst example of the theme. :P But hey, we all have our own life experiences and personal likes and dislikes. So, whatever. I mean, I like Wesley Crusher, Wrath of Khan is probably my 4th favorite Trek movie, I like Enterprise, and TOS is my least favorite of the classic Trek shows. So just admitting those things have me in the tiny minority here, I am sure. Oh, and Taker was entirely overrated as a wrestler. Bret Hart was way better. :D I just think these episodes are fun what ifs. Dystopian societies and preachy stories are some of the most common themes of sci-fi shows and movies, and time travel certainly is another. These episodes aren't the best of what is out there, but they are fine as throwaway entertainment. Which is what probably a third of all Trek shows are imo. These episodes ARE _very_ 1990s, though. And it detracts from them now when back then it probably was less of a thing. It's probably why I can't ever really take TOS as seriously as I should. Even when I was a kid watching them, their obvious age reduces my interest in them, rightfully or not.

Jack Molitor

God I agree with this so much. It’s crazy how often I see people who end up being right about just about every problem in the world get shouted down for being “alarmist” or “woke” or “preachy” or whatever, then down the line when everyone realizes they were right, then the narrative turns to, “Well, they presented their arguments in an annoying way, so it’s still their fault.” And nothing ever improves.

Vee

I knew that streak of loving every s3 episode wouldn't last forever and I suspected it would be a fan fave you didn't like. That's kind of why I like this channel tbh, it's nice to hear views outside the usual. Anyway it's not my favorite either. I don't mind episodes about social issues but it's done in a really clunky soapbox way and I don't think the writers even know what point they're making beyond "poverty is bad actually."

TalynOne

One of the most Star Trek episodes ever, which means I knew you guys would hate it. Sorry it wasn't 2 hours of Obrien talking about transporter schematics and his crappy marriage.

Matt Moylan

At the time I didn't take this is a "look how bad the world is", because the world certainly wasn't that bad. It was a cautionary tale of "be vigilant, don't let the world get like this". And it hits the same today, because still the world isn't anywhere near this bad.

Dr. Paul Stubbs

It was obvious you two weren't vibing pretty early on. Around the time you were making quips like, "NEXT TIME ON DS9, Sisko and Bashir visit the DMV!" right after the opening credits.

River Acheron

My good Doctor; why should ANYone care if anyone else likes or dislikes a piece of media? It takes zero away from your enjoyment of it, correct? Watching them rage over is FUNNY. Yes, while I dislike the eps as well, I disagree on WHY they dislike it. Not that I care, but because it makes for interesting conversation. I hate that I keep relating things to horror but tbh thats all I know. When I tell you about the heated arguments I see at conventions or even online, I have to laugh. Why does it matter if they hate something you love? Or love something you hate. Hell, I was getting told I was wrong for saying I SUBJECTIVELY give Sub Rosa an S because it's so enjoyablely bad. I ADORE things like that. But it actively pisses people off. I dont understand the human concept of getting butthurt over someone else's opinion. Is it selfish to say, im sorry but I only care about my OWN enjoyment? I dont think so, tbh

Paul

Yeah, there are plenty of rich people who legitimately care about the plights of the homeless and poor.

Dr. Paul Stubbs

The most unrealistic thing about this episode's depiction of 2024 is that a US government clock shows the current temperature in Celsius.

TalynOne

I was almost ready to shut it off at the start when they wouldn't stop talking about wrestling. I grew out of that stuff when I turned 12.

River Acheron

You jest, but if they retconned Back to the Future 2 at some point to explain WHY it's an alternate 2015 than what we knew, I could then enjoy the movie lol

TalynOne

"poverty bad" is the laziest take you can have and it explains a lot of why we are where we're at as a society.

Allen W Wright

It is my favourite movie, and the scene with Robin and Marian talking about why he does what he does is inspirational.

Doctor Pulaski

Yes. The 90s were actually much better than this!! This was not a representation of present day. Now it is. The scene at the end where the government comes in guns blazing and kills indiscriminately is literally the news right now today.

Lovok

Part 1 is exceptionally preachy, but I actually kind of enjoy Part 2 a bit. Guess I'm just a bit of a sucker for time travel stories where the characters have to interact with different time periods of Earth's past (as filtered through Trek's adjacent-to-real history). I always find it amusing when activists try to compare the sanctuary districts in this episode to modern day sanctuary cities. Completely different concepts: a last stop for the homeless vs a place where non-citizens and criminals are protected. The only similarity is the word "sanctuary."

Philipp

So you liked it?

ThorE

I was never a fan of this episode. Not because of the message but because it is just not well executed. I kind of hoped that you two would like it. That makes watching your reactions really fun. When I see your point and like an episode that i did not like before. Well this reaction was no fun : D

john reed

OMG !!!! ALEX !! .can't stop laughing . human muppet !!! now I can't get that out my head !!! so funny

Target Audience

As someone IGNORANT about the sanctuary stuff that confused me as well.

Tim b

I think the Episode is alright, maybe a C, but I love Alex' rants here, spot on. If Star Trek did social commentary like this all the time there'd be no reason to make it sci-fi.

EmptyDice

It's all the bad parts of combat sports, without any of the good parts.

Sic Coyote

yeah it's more about the people who have the power to do something about the issue, prefer to just move it away and forget it. Also it's not set in the 90s, things weren't THAT BAD then, reality just deciding to conform to this episode. Unfortunately. Knew they'd hate it, kind of hoped it being a 'Backlot' Episode would help it a little. Also a genuine criticism would be that it's rather dragged out, it's 5 1/2 lbs of episode in an 8 lb bag. Just joined the patreon, watched the first 10 eps of season 3 and Generations fully, but skipped the last 2 thirds of this reaction.

Sic Coyote

yeah I think the problem is watching it in the 90s, this was a dystopian future, watching it now, it's just reality.

Ken R

TV staff writers seldom tend to be rich. Just googling this "1990s TV Writer Compensation: While specific, confidential salaries for individual DS9 writers are not fully public, union rates at the time were often in the range of $900–$2,000 per week for lower-level writers." That's not rich by any stretch of the imagination, and it wasn't so great in the 90s either.

BeefNugs

i will concede that Bashir was excessively over the top for this episode. i agree with others that this really should have been a single episode. there is easily 20 minutes that just doesn't much serve to the plot or anything other than adding filler to force a 2 parter. again, a lot of added nuance that lacked impact.

HeatheЯ

Okay, I want to leave a comment before watching and then I'll comment again. I've been wondering for awhile what they are going to think of this episode and I have no clue. They've talked about when watching episodes they want to view it from a current perspective and what it means in the now. That's fair, absolutely. Yet, at the same time I've been thinking since Star Trek's inception it has always been forward thinking (the first interracial kiss for example). That Star Trek was so innovative, made Star Trek, well.... Star Trek. So when this episode came out homelessness was a social issue, but not the explosive one it is today. This episode was an attempt to motivate a discussion/awareness to what's on the horizon. Watching this now one could say, well... yeah.. duh?!? Kind of like never seeing Network when it was originally released and seeing it today. Will they see this ep as woke and preachy? I'm really not sure. It could give off that vibe in current viewing. But when Past Tense came out, few wanted to talk about looming, future issues like this. From TOS, Star Trek never shied away from relevant social commentary that desperately needed to be addressed and most wanted to sweep under the rug. Either way, however this hits Josh and Alex, I'm looking forward to hearing their thoughts. See you on the other side :)

reactive1

They had good ideas for this two-parter, but failed to execute them well. This is my least favorite two-parter of the series and both are near the bottom of my list for DS9 episodes.

reactive1

It’s been 31 years since this episode.

Gavin Hewitt

What's with the digs at Europe? Noticed this a few times now

Vina

(Also that the people who are pushing against solutions have all the money and guns)

reactive1

Clint Howard plays the character that takes Dax’s combadge and she convinces him to give it back. He was Balok in TOS’ “The Corbomite Maneuver”.

River Acheron

Exactly. Somewhere along the way we conflated Sci Fi with preachy messages. I don't think the message should ever be the driving force behind science fiction whatsoever. I adore the cyberpunk genre. But imagine if in Blade Runner or Cyberpunk 2077 we are preached to? Sometimes we want a gritty dystopian world and get lost in the immersive aspect of it. When playing as V in Cyberpunk 2077, you're not a hero trying to fight for change. You're working for fixers who are into some pretty evil stuff! Thats the fun of it. The fact that the situation and virtual world is so evil IS the message without saying it...that we don't wanna end up that way. Not a WORD has to be said. Saying it even once would actually dilute the message.

Dr. Paul Stubbs

Part II was directed by Jonathan Frakes, who played William T. Riker in "Star Trek: The Next Generation" and "Star Trek: Generations". He also played Thomas Riker in "Star Trek: The Next Generation" and "Star Trek: Deep Space Nine". Frakes was also the host of "Beyond Belief: Fact or Fiction" and voiced David Xanatos in "Disney's Gargoyles".

Target Audience

It’s a joke. We also take digs at America all the time. Drafting some Antarctica jokes next, but it’s tougher.

Adin

Majel Barret is the voice of the computer. She also played Nurse Chapel in the The Original Star Trek series as well as Lwaxana Troi who appeared in „Star Trek The Next Generation“ and „Star Trek Deep Space Nine“

Summer

Antartica jokes are ice cold

Pixels At Dawn

I didn't get around to doing a Patron Take on this one, but I'm not sure I could offer much. I certainly don't hate the episodes, and actually they are quite memorable for me since they are quite different to your standard episode. Past Tense actually reminds me a bit of what would happen if you merged City on the Edge of Forever with Robocop. But there's definitely a bunch of problems. Some dodgy guest actors. The dull as ditchwater Jadzia and the Rich Guys sections. It being so much longer than it needed to be. As I say, I don't hate it but it's a B max, maybe a C.

Pixels At Dawn

That said, I do think the themes are (somewhat sadly) even more relevant today than they were in the 90s.

Loot Narsbaar

Colm Meaney played Chief O’Brien on Star Trek: The Next Generation and also played the replicant O’Brien in season 2’s “Whispers”

Shane Coombs

Josh and Alex, I have strongly disagreed with you two before but I just do not understand the passionate reaction from people to this one. In my book, this is an E also. I think this is one of the most boring, low quality episodes in the franchise, and it really stands out being surrounded by so many better episodes in season 3. You have this run of great to pretty good episodes in S3 and then you get this one which feels like they had a rejected script from the same period as Move Along Home and had to film it during a writer's strike or something. Can I see people disagreeing with you guys and liking this one better than an E? Sure, but I do not understand how anyone could possibly feel as strongly about this one as so many seem to and be reacting to it as emotionally and passionately as so many are. I don't get it.

Trillhouse

"City on the Edge of Forever" x "Robocop" is the most accurate vibe description I've ever seen for these episodes.

Summer

You set it up for me perfectly, I was surprised no one else had jumped on it. Its hard to be laughing so much at my own corny joke

Shane Coombs

I'd add to this and say that when someone says "Star Trek was always woke" they usually wind up pointing to an episode about some topic that most people would not call "woke," even today. For instance, the message that Past Tense tries to present about poverty here is probably one that would be considered more of a "left leaning" message than a right leaning one, but it's definitely not one even the most far right person would call *woke*.

Mordock_Vapelord

The luxwana "fan-fic" episode where nothing relevant happened was great but this was an absolute E 😂😂😂 Still love ya boys!

River Acheron

I don't understand how people can feel this passionate about ANY fiction, tbh. It's just a TV show. I know people that don't get this passionate about their religion.

River Acheron

I played in nothing. (well aside from videos that we won't talk about here)

River Acheron

Why did Antarctica break up with the rest of the world? It needed some....ice-olation ⛄️

Gavin Hewitt

I think it's more the 'I'm checked out can't be arsed', and that's fine to say it's rough, but, asking people to sit watching a guy who doesn't want to be there, why should we be bothered to watch a reaxtion if Alex can't? By that point, I'd of respected Alex more if he just got up and walked away and said see you next episode Again, its fine to say it's shite, it prob was, but reminded me of my ex going 'I'm ok' while looking at me like I slept with her mum too

brian

This 2 parter is just boring as fuck

Shane Coombs

Gavin, I agree with that perspective BUT there are a good number of much better episodes Alex and/or Josh's reaction to which people could have felt the same way but it just never created nearly as much of a furor as over this episode that even the people who are upset seem to say is pretty mediocre at best.

River Acheron

Why is Antarctica terrible at support groups? Because every time someone opens up, the conversation just… glaciers over. ❄️ Okay that was kinda terrible. I guess I froze up 🥶

Summer

😂😂😂

River Acheron

This is what I do at work. Everything but actually work.

Boggle

95% off-topic, but a friend of mine worked a few summers and winters in Antarctica in the kitchen. It's actually not that hard to get a job like that there with a little patience. The stories he used to tell about the winters there (Winter population was like 150 people in a base meant to hold several thousand during the other seasons) probably had enough shenanigans to write about a dozen raunchy comedy movies.

EmptyDice

I love all the predictions they got right in those episodes. People using "the net" to get all their information, touchscreen computers, police arresting you for not having an ID... I love how this episode makes Bashir look so much more competent, he actually gets to use his skills as a doctor without having to rely on technology. Apparently, and for good reasons, those episodes are favorites of many cast members, Colm Meaney being one of them. Personally, I've never seen this episode as preachy, probably because homelessness isn't a problem where I live (it's too cold). I love these episodes for the time travel aspect, the predictions that turned right and the social commentary on the rich and powerful being totally disconnected from the real world. Those episodes were prescient in the 90s (not that much since sanctuaries were actually being discussed in L.A. while they were filming this) and are still relevant today. It was supposed to be a cautionary tale, not a critic of the modern world, and it's not the writers' fault that it became one.

Scarpad’s Domain

I think them laughing over the subjuect matter is kinda the reason we have the Trek we have now.

Gavin Hewitt

I dunno what to say bud, I personally think it's a c-/D, but I get how people see it as E, it IS preachy and wooden But I also think mocking a way a guys mouth opens is poor form, again, terrible actor... Mocking something he can't help when shouting? Not my cup of tea. Saying he can't act? Fine. It's just the checked outness of it, say it's crap, but Dam it was really obvious he didn't want to be there... And by the end, neither did I

Scarpad’s Domain

I agree that this should have been one episode but this was the 90’s and trek does hold a scope on current situations, and dammed did they predict our current situation

EmptyDice

They might like Starfleet Academy, who knows at this point.

River Acheron

Or maybe people just need to just have some fun. Its not serious. Its a TV show. And I unironically like Starfleet Academy. Not to mention Strange New Worlds is fire. 🔥 Tastes have changed. Not for the better, not for worse. It's just different. Kids are different with different values, beliefs and issues. Technology and short-form media changed people's viewing habits. And that's okay. :)

Molly Campbell

I swear I tried to watch to the end, but I couldn't do it.

River Acheron

I guess I see that point. It's like if my friend or even boyfriend hated something that was important to me, I honestly wouldn't give a fiddlyfuck. But if he was on his phone the whole time and not paying attention, that would irk the shit outta me. (and yes that happened lol) If that's kinda what you're saying?

EmptyDice

It's worse. I won't go into details, but there's so much stupidity in Kurtzman's Star Trek, it's unwatchable. It feels like big bang theory but without the laugh track. It's no longer science-fiction, it's fantasy in space, it's basically Star Wars but without the depth.

Miranda

You may be right, actually. I don't hate this episode. I think it is probably a B-/C+ for me. But DS9's other 2-parters are great.

River Acheron

And you literally just showed prejudice and bias. And it's from a videogame. Disgaea. A Tactical RPG that I can promise you your simple mind couldn't begin to figure out let alone master.

brqby

Regarding your discussion after Part 1 about how you would rather relax than be lectured to about issues when watching TV, I get what you're saying, but the world back then wasn't like now where you are bombarded with news and information wherever you go. Basically, if you were not watching your TV, listening to your radio or reading your newspaper, you were disconnected from the issues of the world, and it was a completely different mindset. So when seeing this on TV, it wouldn't seem like a lecture, but more like a 'Very Special Episode'.

Miranda

Then again, I'm witnessing my city government criminalize homelessness as trespassing and arrest people for seeking shade under trees in parking lots. So, sometimes it might actually be needed to remind them that homeless people are people, too. Not that there's an easy answer, and I don't think the overall cause is apathy. But definitely there are people in government who actively believe that being poor is a moral failing.

Jon Miller

They kind of missed the point that this wasn’t saying how bad the world is because the world *wasn’t* like that then. It was warning how bad the world could be if we lose all empathy. The fact the guys dislike it because it seems like the news and very normal and they don’t want to have to think about the real world and poor people when watching TV (just like the people outside the sanctuary in the episode) tells you everything about how right DS9 was in its prediction of what the people and society of 2024 would be like.

Back Flip Bet

They won't like discovery or academy because of woke 😭

Sykonee

I'll always remember how one of the earliest 'Watch ALL Star Trek' podcasts - Post Atomic Horror - took some serious flak for disliking this two-parter, for most of the usual reasons (too technobabbly a set-up, too preachy, too padded, 'Hat Guy' really annoying). So, y'know, not an uncommon reaction.

Miranda

Based on the comments, I'm just not going to watch this one. It isn't that I love this episode. I think it is around B-/C+. Ironically, when I first saw it back in the 90s I thought it was preachy and muddled, and just bad. Like, the problem is obviously not that people stopped caring. Anyone who does advocacy for homeless services and mental health knows that apathy is not the root cause. And the writers deciding the solution is Employment legislation guaranteeing jobs is just ridiculous! And was ridiculous back then! (Too bad they didn't think of Universal Basic Income, as this could have been a strong allegory for job displacement by AI!) My opinion now has improved because I think they were a bit more thoughtful about the government criminalizing poverty and homelessness, which isn't really something that was a mainstream idea back in the 90s when they wrote it But this is a strong trend in current city government. So this is kinda why it is now a C+. Because I feel like they partially understood the problem, but then couldn't really grasp what would *really* be needed to stop it. Or maybe they didn't really try, since it is so complex, and thought they could shorthand it with "people forgot to care!" but they really can't, since that is obviously not the base problem.

River Acheron

Now wait a minute. Something can be very important and impactful and still a BAD episode or movie. I used this reference before but I recognize how culturally important Citizen Kane or the Beatles are but I think both are friggin terrible. Plus maybe sometimes people are in the mood for a message and sometimes they just want a good story.

Forbidden Donut

While I've never been a huge fan of this two-parter, I have to say that I think you guys have convinced me it's bad. I remembered it being slow. I remembered it being 'a bit preachy', but watching it with you guys today, it was a lot more of both than I remembered. And when you look past the message it wants to deliver, the remaining plot is... pretty dull, actually. Definitely could have been one episode. So.... .... Thanks? Lol

River Acheron

It's not supposed to be deep. Once we just meet it on its OWN terms, I can appreciate it for what it is. You can't compare it to 90's Trek. We need to accept that a 90's style show could not EVER end up on TV again and that is totally okay! True; Starfleet Academy is not very sci-fi heavy but I knew this going into it. It's really about the characters (which is why Josh and Alex may like it, and why I do). Is it a masterpiece like DS9? Hell no! Not even close. I don't love it. But I DO like it being its own entity and trying to do its own thing. Star Trek doesn't have a "feel". It can be many things and I do appreciate that they are doing different genres within the same universe. I am still waiting for a Horror Star Trek!

tyranusfan

There was a debate in the writer's room about mentioning WW3. There was a discrepancy that had crept in, between Khan/the Eugenics Wars in the 1990s, and Farpoint talking about WW3 in the mid-21st century. The writers got caught up with the idea that they were in the 1990s in real life, and clearly society/tech hadn't progressed to the point where we had sleeper ships (to banish Khan with)...and then started wondering if the Eugenics Wars should be later, and if that was the same as WW3...frankly, they over-thought it. I say stick to the canon you have and make it work. YES, Khan existed. YES we had advanced spacecraft in 1990. YES WW3 happened when Picard said it did. Just go with it. They dropped that ball.

Avaria

As much of an "after school special" as it can admittedly be at times, this episode did resonate with people, both when it first came out and since. It's helped keep the subjects it addresses alive within the Star Trek community for over 30 years, even if the lived reality has trended more downward than not since 1995. And, on the weekend of Aug. 30 - Sept. 1, 2024, local fan groups in SF did organize to fundraise and make donations to food banks, community health organizations, and other groups that address the needs of the homeless and disadvantaged in honor of Gabriel Bell. So, in that regard, I think the writers succeeded in what they were trying to do. A B in my book. If you want episode-centric reasons: I actually like the premise, the temporal Prime Directive's usually an interesting twist on the standard; I appreciate most of the interactions between Sisko and/or Bashier and Lee and/or Webb; I like the Easter eggs that the two time periods O'Brian and Kira go to are 1932 (CotEoF) and 1966 (premire of ST); I appreciate that they leave it open-ended rather than pretending our guys could solve the over-arching problem (they just need to patch the blip they caused, and avoid accelerating the grip of cynicism and apathy). I still feel it's a good effort.

Miranda

Let me be more succinct: The episode suffers structurally, even if I accept their premise that apathy is the problem. If apathy is the problem, then closing the Sanctuaries and guaranteeing everyone jobs doesn't actually do anything to address the problem.

Aaron Adams

I think yal are a little sensitive to being preached to. "i get that the world sucks, what are you going to do about it?!" Nothing. That's the point. It's City on the Edge of Forever. We have to let something bad happen for the good of history. It's guilty of bad pacing but I don't think it's preachy. B for me. (for the record, i thought Melora was preachy)

Actuarial Lurker

Just wait until Vivek becomes their governor....

Actuarial Lurker

River Acheron- When I tell people that The Beatles were influential but Pink Floyd is a better band people come at me with pitchforks...

Jill Barker

So glad I didn’t waste money paying for early access to these episodes which I have always rated highly. I am afraid I found your mockery and inability to see beyond the superficial very offputting. Your disrespectful reaction to all elements ( writing, acting and directing) of this well executed and thoughtful thirty year old story was so disproportionate. Yes , there was a social message but it did hit home at the time it was aired. You may see it as “woke” and preachy , but Star Trek has never been afraid to tackle serious societal issues. This is a similar message to that given in “The City on the edge of Forever “ yet you were happy to listen to Edith Keeler lecturing the homeless about being a bum and the evils of booze and not wanting to work. What is the difference? A strong B+ for me.

Jon Miller

Watching the reaction it was striking how Josh and Alex's mocking and lack of empathy mirrored the theme of the episode which is how the world could (and sadly did) end up if we lose empathy.

AdmiralMurphy

For me Star Trek overall kinda has to be deep. That's why I liked it growing up and made it stand out. I got made fun of by all my friends for being into it and not Star Wars like them which they liked for just the action and simple stories. I feel like the modern era of Trek lost that deep story telling around the human condition that has made it feel like a completely different brand and why it does not connect to me.

Jon Miller

Yeah like a boiling frog people don't realise that what is normal and 'the news' now was a far off dystopia in the 90s. At the time it didn't seem like 'watching the news' like Alex says. I wish they'd consider the context of the time more sometimes.

Jon Miller

That's the point of the episode, to make you think that. Or you could just make fun of it and shout 'woke' every five minutes performatively.

Avaria

Isn't it also the case that, in Star Trek at least, that WW3 was largely centered in the global south and east, primarily being a broad, multi-theater conflict focused on China, India, and the Middle East? It is possible for large-scale war involving hundreds of millions of people to be happening while it's still mostly just Tuesday for the average resident of the United States. "Europe is falling apart," mentioned in this episode as little more than an annoyance.

Jon Miller

Yeah I've enjoyed the channel a lot recently but this one was just not a fun reaction to watch.

EmptyDice

They weren't trying to solve the problem (prime directive forbids it), they just wanted to go back to their future without breaking anything. The "solution" of closing the sanctuaries and guaranteeing jobs was from the people of 2024, not our crew. And we know from Sisko that it didn't solve anything, it was only a small step toward a better future. Sisko merely explained that apathy is how those situations started and aren't being solved. The writers purposefully didn't voice any solutions because they didn't have any, only that when working on solutions we should value empathy and compassion.

Jon Miller

The fact the guys keep saying this episode is set 'in the modern world' seemingly clueless as to how futuristic it seemed in the 90s shows what a good job the show did with its predictions.

River Acheron

Live in the knowledge that you are correct. Pink Floyd is FAR better than the Beatles. So is Ronnie James Dio, Black Sabbath, Iron Maiden and well....I can go on and on. 🤘

Target Audience

The difference is The City on the Edge of Forever was a good episode. I literally compare the episode to this one in this video.

River Acheron

I do appreciate that you said, "for you." I HIGHLY respect that! My issue are the people that literally tell me why I shouldn't like something lol. I had people in some YouTube channels tell me that me liking some newer Trek is part of the problem. I have had my entire generation mocked saying I was a "Gen Z snot nosed self-entitled brat" (ironic because they were BLEEDING self-entitled douchebaggery), and I was even told I didn't like new Trek and only thought I did because I was brainwashed by Woke Indoctrination. lmao. But ya, of course if you personally don't like something, thats SO okay, valid, and respectable.

Matchstick Jose

Reminds me of that Avery Brooks IBM commercial! “It is the year 2000. But where are the flying cars? I was promised flying cars. I don't see any flying cars!”

River Acheron

How did such a stupid random 2-part episode surpass the drama of Star Trek 6?

tyranusfan

Absolutely, all news is local. In some cases, it would be as simple as putting a headline on a newspaper and showing it briefly like they did in ST4.

Todd

I thought the best scenes in part 1 were when Jadzia was found and taken in by the media mogul. It showed her shrewdness and Terri was so charming. Some of the guest stars, were the best part of part 2: Lee the social worker and Webb the father. When I watched this episode 30 years ago when I was still in college, I remember not being wowed by the episode. First time re-watching and I have to agree how bad the first part was for all the reasons you said. Looking at Memory Alpha, some of the cast and crew were quoted at the time as feeling this story was good for tackling the subject of unhoused people.

EmptyDice

People have forgotten what sci-fi was all about. While there can be comedy, drama or even social commentary, at the base it should be about science (The observation, identification, description, experimental investigation, and theoretical explanation of phenomena) that's what the golden age of Star Trek had, and what's missing from Kurtzman's. Nu Star Trek is as much sci-fi as LotR is an historical epic. Modern audiences are so scientifically illiterate that they confuse science and fantasy.

captveg

Part 1 is truly a bore. 15 minutes of story stretched over 45. Part 2 is a little better, but it's all just overly preachy. The comic relief of the searching in different times is silly fun that clashes with the sanctimonious aspect of the rest of the episodes. In other words, I pretty much agree with your reactions on this one.

Captkirc

I don’t get why it upsets people this much that the guys hated this episode (and I say this as someone who likes the episide a lot). It’s not like the Jem’Hadar which sets up the future and it’s not the Original crews last ever movie but even those I think the fact Josh and Alex give their genuine opinion is what makes their channel great. To me, it’s the inverse of Meridian to each their own. Btw Josh great job with the trailer as it’s fair to say all of us were worked.

bab

I never really cared for this two-parter, but the fallout's reminded me that I'm still mad about The Jem'Dahar.

Steven Linden

I mean, I do appreciate that they're being honest and not pretending to like stuff. But yeah, sometimes it doesn't make for a very pleasant watch. Which is OK - not everything has to be for everyone.

Captkirc

I haven’t waded through all 500 comments yet but in case somehow no one mentioned it the Boxing poster in the first Chief/Kira 1920s beam down was the same as the one from City on the Edge of Forever.

Sunny

It’s at least interesting to see how differently we can experience the same piece of media. I find this two parter depressing and difficult to watch right now and wasn’t a fan even when the country was doing better. That’s mostly because I get overwhelmed with scenarios like this where everything is just horrible and a misery.

Steven Linden

To be clear, it doesn't UPSET me that they hated the episode. We can have different opinions. It's just, it doesn't make for a very enjoyable reaction for me to watch in this case.

HeatheЯ

1st, when Alex and Josh both loose their minds during an episode, it's over, lol. 2nd, for me this story has always been and still is a C- purely on poor execution. It's a bit boring/stretched out and Tasmania/Bittle guy, although realistic is just too annoying. But the msg is really good. For me it doesn't come off preachy or too on the nose probably because I'm seeing this through the lens of what the 70s were like being highly influenced by the 60s, through the lens of the 80s and then the 90s when this came out. And saying these things in a straightforward way, was a choice (that can be debated if it was the right choice for the time). The guys writing this were older than me and I completely see that 60s/70s experience coming through. Hey, I love ya Josh and Alex but you should be called out a little bit here. Having big feelings/opposite opinions is legit. That's cool, I'm here for it. But you don't know the hearts of these writers, their personal struggles, what they fought for in their lives and for in the lives of others. Several times you gave them shit for grandstanding and guilt-tripping as they lived their best lives, walking past those in need. We don't know that. I find that an unjustified and cynical.

Laura Thornley

Good concept, mixed execution. Episode is dragged down by a few of the guest actors, stretched out plot and pretty abrupt ending. They could have cut a lot of the chaff out and added a few scenes on Earth with Sisko's family and it would have done wonders. Still, I think its a C tier overall. Which for this season is pretty bad - the rest of it is just so good.

Loot Narsbaar

This is probably the first reaction of yours I've watched and didn't enjoy. Alex invented a guy who didn't exist and then got mad at him. If Conan O'Brien was bumping around in a Ford Taurus as an associate producer in his Simpsons days I doubt the DS9 guys were riding to work in limos. I get you got caught off guard with an episode you found to be boring and preachy. But c'mon. attack the episode on it's own merits.

Loot Narsbaar

Neither here nor there but they retconned the third world war to happening in the 2050s or whatever

HeatheЯ

I'm glad you said that, I made a comment because I noticed the exact thing.

DataL0re

I skip theses 2 episodes, it drags on, it has some fun things , but the story is boring , I do like the guy that was in gremlins

Loot Narsbaar

What I learned today is part one is the weak part. I always thought it was part 2.

EmptyDice

It's like if I was watching a wrestling match with a fan, and I kept complaining about how bad the sound system is and how cheap their outfits look instead of commenting on the choreography and story. It would also frustrate the fan that I don't focus on the "right" things.

Loot Narsbaar

They were on Earth at the same time as Kirk and Spock

HeatheЯ

Yeah, pt 2 def picks up.

Loot Narsbaar

What's doubly frustrating is I agree with Alex in principle. It drives me nuts when people rate art solely on whether it checks every box they agree with politically. I hate that! I get you are riffing off the cuff raw in front of a camera and that is very difficult to do, but this wasn't it.

Target Audience

Did Frakes not use a crane camera in Meridian? I'm shocked and impressed if he was able to get some of those shots without it.

Sic Coyote

Plus most people who are annoyed don't even like the 2-parter. it's boring, preachy and well I don't need a third because the first two were so good.

#MaxwellDidNothingWrong

Josh remembered the Alamo as the Poker guy in Time's Arrow Part 1 !! Always remember the Marc Alamo

Jaymison Boeker

But Star Trek doesn't do social commentary "like this" all the time. It rarely does. Well this era of Star Trek anyways. So the point is mute.

JoeMama47

I watched part 1 with the guys, then watched part 2 without so I could form my own opinion. I give it a C. It deserves a B, but BC's performance and O'Brien and Kira's stop in the 60s knocks it down a grade.

GreenCauldron08

The show was a little TOO optimistic there

Sic Coyote

Nothing with Jeffrey Combs in can be bad, Re-Animator, Robot Jox, or Meridian. even if the Dax storyline was soo boring.

Captkirc

I think it’s a generational thing. Myself and most commenters probably grew up in a world where special effects (in both wrestling and Star Trek) pale in comparison to what they are used to. It’s a similar thing to them complaining there was no blood in Blood Oath which we are more likely to give a pass on well because we grew up on broadcast TV

Captkirc

If they don’t like the next two parter then it is probably time to worry

GreenCauldron08

Mark Twain gets rescued from Cardassia alongside Lee Nalis. He's the crazy paranoid guy who took Dax's combadge in this episode. "Aha! Odo! I must say you - heh - returned home earlier than we expected. Hrm!"

Sic Coyote

yeah when the theme is "isn't it terrible how people are ignoring the plight of these people" and your response is "I don't wanna hear about these people" it's a bad look.

GreenCauldron08

"How did they let it get so bad??" - Alex, about the writers of this episode

Forbidden Donut

*As Sam Wilson* 'You gotta do better, Target Audience!'

Dabo Master

I thought the episode was a C. If it wasnt a 2 parter and had faster pacing it would've been better.

EmptyDice

They've watched movies much older than this episode and didn't complain about the kind of details that they did here. I honestly think that when they see Ira Steven Behr's name, all they can think of is the purple goateed hipster. It turns them off and they watch with a negative viewpoint from then on, especially Alex. It's not the first time this happened.

lowkee120

I think you need to go back to watching in the evening, because you're not up to this whole morning thing. Want to know what's more boring than Sisko and Bashir walking down the street talking about how bad poverty is? Watching two grown men on the internet complain about it. So, skipping the second episode and final thoughts on this one. Onward to Voyager.

Forbidden Donut

@ Derek Locke I agree with you, because I suspect we may have similar definitions of the word "woke", but as you can see in the replies, others think "woke" is just a synonym for "progressive", so we're basically not even speaking the same language on this topic. It's frustrating because I think if people could somehow lay out definitions and really understand what everyone actually thinks instead of getting confused on one word having different meanings, we might see that the world isn't as divided as it may appear, but this isn't the place to try to hash it out, either, so.... *shrug*

L J

Whew, I didn’t see that coming. While I didn’t necessarily think this would be a favorite of yours, I also didn’t expect you to despise it as much as you did. One pattern I’ve noticed with you guys is when you decide you don’t like an episode there is almost no redeeming it for you. Was it a little heavy with the social commentary? Yes. But I think it delivered in more ways than you give it credit for here. It never ceases to amaze me how you seem to be able to find redeeming qualities in episodes that I find to be absolutely horrible, while at other times you can watch an episode that is generally highly regarded and just rip it to shreds. It's a bit perplexing and definitely keeps us fans on our toes! And for the record, I don’t particularly love this pair of episodes. I don’t hate it as much as you do, but I find it a little over the top, slow paced, frequently in your face with explaining the obvious, and overall disappointing for what was otherwise an interesting premise. I appreciate it for what it is and the message it is trying to convey, but other episodes have shared that same message in a much more effective way. It is far from top level Trek... but it’s not THAT bad.

Holodeck Prompt Engineer

Alex, please remember to have fun even during the dogshit episodes. You legit got mad here, and it wasn't a good look. I can't imagine how you're going to handle anything after Enterprise.

Rangsk

Ok rewriter's room - here's how I'd make the episode better: 1. Cut all or most of the speeches and repetitiveness with Sisko and Bashir and possibly Dax to give us tons more time for other things. 2. Add way more scenes to the Defiant but scrap everything that already was going on there. First, as soon as the transport happens, they see history change. Romulans or the Borg or someone is now in control of Earth, and they have to cloak and escape before they can figure out what was going on. 3. Show Sisko/Bashir/Dax royally screw things up, thus causing the timeline changes. Show the riots happen and the hostages get killed because they *fail* to preserve the timeline. 4. Back on the Defiant, they figure out the date Sisko/Bashir/Dax were sent back to and O'Brien and Kira go back to fix things. But they have to fly back to Earth and decloak to do it, making getting the exact time difficult. They end up there a couple days after Sisko arrived. 5. Now, with the addition of O'Brien and Kira, things go differently and the timeline is restored. They return to their future.

Fiz

Yeah. This is the first one I skipped

Loot Narsbaar

This makes the episode more expensive but I don't think it makes it better. It's a fine episode as is.

Hvgunwilltravel

Never been a fan of this episode, I usually skip it on rewatches. E is an appropriate rating in my opinion. The world sucks. I watch Trek to escape the world sucking.

Heespharm

It’s one thing to hate on an episode I get that but it’s yalls job to still make it enjoyable to watch the reaction…. Skipped the discussion on this one bc what’s the point of watching it

Marko

Bosnia and Serbia actually. Bosnians and Croats did fight amongst themselves in Bosnian war but Serbia and Bosnia conflict was the inspiration.

Redjac

I like the two-part episode. The time travel alone is enough for me to enjoy it. The setting and the backstory make it exciting for me. I never found it boring.I don't understand why Alex takes it so personally when social injustices are addressed. It certainly makes a big difference that I watched the episodes back then as a teenager. I like to claim that my moral compass was defined by series like Star Trek TOS, TNG and DS9.

Nolan

Ugh. I'm surprised, I woulda thought our crew dismantling a bureaucracy would have appealed to you guys. 🤪 But once again, Alex has people defending a mid-tier episode. A frusterating thing is that, just because someone gets a credit on a Hollywood production does not mean they instantly become a millionaire, nor ever dealt with living in harsh conditions. Way too many stories of writers and even actors in wildly popular things ending up poverty striken because they couldn't get work after that. Because guess what, most of Hollywood runs off of temporary contractual jobs. Yeah, a few Hollywood elite in the TV realm make it big, but they'd have been showrunners/executive producers for multiple productions, not the fuckin staff writers working 9-5 glad to have a job so they can pay off their mortgage on their overpriced LA homes. Where do you think "starving artist" comes from? Plus, the message isn't even about poverty. That's just the flavor their message about the way bureaucratic systems foster societial apathy and widen class divides, took and they just want society, enmass, to be careful about that. And of course, the 90s was actually a period of relative peace, bliss and calm. Like yeah, a proposal like this showed up in an LA city council and caused a stir, but as written this was NOT a commentary necessarily on issues of the day, but an extrapolation of what COULD happen. You know, Speculative Fiction. And obviously the 3rd World War in Trek's past didn't spring from NOTHING. So this tells a bit of how the world crumbled. Furthermore PLENTY of works set themselves "20 years in the future." Do people get mad at Blade Runner for telling a story 30 years later in 2019 about corporate greed and identity politics and the right of beings to live? No, because that's a ridiculous complaint. If this episode followed the same basic plot, but took place in the past, in WWII Warsaw, or in Medieval Europe with the black plague, or in Ancient Egypt or when the Persian empire was conquring the known world, or during the French Revolution or the American Civil War or any number of historical periods where an atrocity occured, I 100% garuntee that Bashir and Sisko would have had the same damn type of conversation about things getting so bad - and you'd have been FINE with it. It would've been more divorced from your lived experience, which, again at the time of airing, the events of this episode and the extremes felt were not as prominant as they became. So don't be mad the episode now sounds preachy because it got things right, get mad at the way the world worked out to the point it robbed you of being able to enjoy that part of the episode and filling in backstory about how the Star Trek world came to be. That's what I always found interesting about the episode - taking the common trope of having modern humans end up in the past and being bewildered at the state of things and how much they took for granted their modern life, only, it's people from the future, travelling to our future and feeling the same. Alex hates when Star Trek looks back and bitches about current life, and obviously when the callouts get specific it's like "Really?" But I also totally believe that is something that would happen. We do it today. Why wouldn't they, with as much progress as they've made, not do it to us too. I'm sorry the world sucks so much this episode is too close to home and triggering for you to enjoy the stuff that would make it a Mid-ass episode with some fun lore. But such is life I guess... But you'd still hate the technobabble and smog flattening out the picture and the pacing issues and B.C.'s character - but there'd probably be less pouting. And FWIW, I found Captain Sam America's speech the most Star Trek thing to air in the last decade. Take that for what it's worth, lol.

Ken R

I just watched you reacting to Part one, and your reaction perplexes me. You of all people to complain about Afterschool Special writng, when you lost your minds over stuff like Worf doesn't know how to be a good dad when Alexander doesnt want to pick up after himself, and Data's daughter is just too pure to live in such an unfriendly world, they had Sarek come on for a Very Special Episode about dementia and you loved that too. You complained nothing was happening, but do you realize you loved an episode of DS9 where an alien comes on and OBrien says "he's hiding something but I like him" and then absolutely nothing happens for 30 minutes and then OBrien says "he's hiding something but I like him"?

Nolan

Oh, I'm also sorry there's been such crappy modern "issue" writing that has ruined the way this episode tackled things. This is far less egregious when you haven't seen a thousand bad imitations of it that take anything that would've been innovative about this writing and retroactively flattened it. So yes. Most of your complaints about the social message fell flat to me at best, or were/are petty and pouty at worst, but I'll grant you flat cinematography, questionable character work from some of the guest stars and pacing issues. But I don't find the plot boring and liked learning more about the Days of Future's Past.

River Acheron

That's a pretty fair take. I would agree that the newer series tend to be a little more....um.....free in what they call "science". I can absolutely understand why that turns off older fans, ESPECIALLY TOS fans. But isn't it also fair to say that DS9 is extremely fantasy as well, especially having anything to do with the Bajorans and the mystical aspects of their culture and beliefs? And I would humbly argue that DS9 is better than TOS. The one positive I will say about Kurtzman is he does TRY to listen to the fans. Without spoiling the details, he completely course-corrected the extremely AWFUL first two seasons of Discovery. I will concede that he doesn't understand the franchise much. I think it's slowly getting better. with every new show. And I do like that they are pushing the boundaries of what Star Trek means, by shaking up not only the formula but also the genre! Yes, it's going to turn off the older fans. Also, I love the fantasy genre, so I'm okay with some of the more unbelievable aspects simply because I don't take Star Trek too seriously as some Bible. I don't take media that seriously. There have been TV shows that literally saved my life and stopped me from....unaliving....and even I don't hold them as sacrosanct or anything. At the end of the day, it's just entertainment. I also don't believe Gene was some god and had some untouchable vision. He wanted to make a Western in space lol. I think a lot of his edicts had to do with what he thought was realism and where he figured we would be 100's of years in the future, not a moral compass he had. I could be wrong.

Philipp

i figured..

Gary Evans

My understanding time-line wise was that WW3 was sometime around 2050-2060, the 90's war the lads are talking about I believe was the eugenics wars with Kahn leading an army of superhumans to take over. Maybe they did retcon it though, I've watched TNG DS9 VOY & ENTERPRISE a dozen times over but TOS only once or twice, so maybe they did originally say WW3 was in the 90's. Generally agree with you about the problems with the episode, not an E in my opinion but probably a C. Although as a Brit, my experience of the 90's and specifically American Society at that time doesn't feel as close to home, so it always seemed like a wild "What if" episode, not realising the real issues it was highlighting.

Nolan

Alex, think of it less as entitled, snobby writers talking down to you about poverty, and more as strung-out, over-worked, underpaid 9-5er staff writers using millions of their studio and advertiser boss's money to tell a story about how the rich and powerful put in place systems to maintain an unviable status quo and the only way to fix it is to riot against those systems and expose the rich snobs for the a-holes they are.

Welcomed_Interloper

I kinda lived through something very similar as a kid. Not a prisoner but might as well have been. Horrible conditions, beatings and murders where I lived, money useless due to hyperinflation, lines for government bread and milk handout. And I couldn't help but think "Oh their food is slightly better and they have 3 meals a day", or "Oh they have people helping them find jobs so they can eventually leave outside into a still normal city". I understood very well intellectually that what I was seeing was horrible and that a healthy society should not allow this to get so bad, but emotionally I just couldn't find myself to care. I would have expected to connect more to this but I didn't. At all. I hope it's just because of terrible execution. It just felt so like fake TV preaching from people who just don't get it how the real thing would look like. Anyway this episode gets a D from me. I still think E is too harsh, nothing that egregious in it.

The Ninth Doctor

Based comment. The mockery was a pretty difficult take at best, and the apathy shown is exactly what this episode tried to warn us about - evidenced by the very reaction seen here. Yes the execution wasn't the best, and I totally respect the different pespective on the (mid/poor) execution of concept. The arrogance and ignorance to the very concept itself though... is not a good look. Especially given how commonplace such apathy and arrogance is in the world these days - and not just by those in charge.

Summer

I am in the position to be in the middle on this controversy, I get completely why Josh and Alex hated it, but I also understand those in the comments saying the guys went too far in their dislike, I say again that is the only or biggest downside to seeing people see things the first time, there are episodes we all hated the first time but aren’t as bad now, I never like seeing something new when others are around, while I think most of us should have known how they would feel, I always considered the episodes middle sort of episode myself, I didn’t think the acting was that bad, could it have been better, yes. But its not. So now we can move on to see Voyager. Sadly the next DS9 for us with the guys is two weeks away but that will give things a chance to ease. (I will start now preparing a take for an episode I feel the same about coming in a few years) as an aside, I am only 43 but I have never been one for lingo, it usually goes wrong when I try, so there are times I have to look up more modern slang/jargon here, so sorry if I misunderstand slang/jargon sometimes, I watch Trek and mythbusters, I am a geek approaching middle age. (And I have nieces and nephews between 26 and 13 so they don’t and haven’t used a lot of slang around me either.)

THE Fans

At 53 years old, I am Josh and Alex... I have seen variations of this in real life and tv too many times. However, 23 year old me really liked this episode. And in 2024 I was surprised how many things were similar.

Anthony O;Grady

I thought this 2 parter was really good.

Crewman #6

Oof. I'm waiting for the edited, but sounds like it's a rough one and gonna be a controversial one once released into the wild. I'll try to be ready for a coherent concise response when the TA rating for edited comes up.

River Acheron

Yeah, I just...I dunno. I wanted more of the time-travel aspects. They had two parts to play around in, and instead of what could have been an epic time-travel adventure, we got....this. Missed opportunity in my book.

River Acheron

Alex did seem to take it rather personally. I can't even imagine a bad episode of anything, or a bad videogame or movie making me mad. I have FUN with the bad. Maybe that's just me, but even if I am extremely passionate about a franchise (Silent Hill for example), I have as much fun from a bad entry as I do a good one. Life's too short. Also, I said this before but I am not a critical viewer, in that I don't really notice things people consider bad, like acting and directing etc.

Often Wrong Soon(g)

This was a failed attempt to remake "The City on the Edge of Forever." Instead of Nazi's as the evil it was the division between the wealthy and poor, not enough government spending, trapping people in downtrodden cities? Not sure even know the enemy here. To gain any 70% accuracy with 2024 you might need a Distict A "Learing Center" where billions are funneled away from these citizens. Or a Biolab where they are injecting citizens. I know no time for that in these two hours of preach. Glad it is over and I can move forward with forgetting about it all over again. Ironic as that is the opposite of the point they tried to make.

Mark Plemmons

Some comments have misrepresented the backstory of this episode. Behr and Wolfe wrote this to highlight the apathy they saw towards homeless people around them, and THEN during filming, the LA mayor proposed moving all homeless people to a fenced-in area. The story wasn't written based on real-life fences. Life imitated art.

Jon Miller

The reaction to the reaction is probably because normally TA is a fun watch - it's a good time seeing them discover things you love, and fun to see them finding joy in things you didn't think were good. But in this reaction they just seem like every other angry right wing nerds yelling about how woke Star Trek is. There are a hundred YouTube channels doing that, TA is usually something different.

Mark Plemmons

I don't really mind if you hate an episode that I love (this isn't one of them), but I think taking shots at the writers themselves was painful for many of us TA fans because it was hard to tell what was a joke and what wasn't.

Greg Quinn

The difference is they think this is "woke" because they don't like being told about homelessness. Lol?

Evan Guthrie

Media literacy folks crashing out

Cranky Grandma

Dang I’m often on the same page as you guys. ST3 was the best movie. And this was not the best anything. I wonder how many praised this because they thought they ought to. Execution matters. I found this kinda dull, irrespective of the topic.

Evan Guthrie

I am not so harsh on this episode, but I think this hits the nail on the head.

Evan Guthrie

It's not really their job to do that IMO. But remember, you control their paycheck.

Evan Guthrie

I might keep my membership after enterprise just to see his reaction LMAO

Evan Guthrie

Totally agree here. Felt like the writers wanted to make their grandstanding a little more important so they stretched it out. The whole side quest with Dax and Clint Howard felt totally unnecessary.

Evan Guthrie

They'll release a new edition of "Why we love Star Trek" lol

Evan Guthrie

They've said this before, but having profound personal struggles doesn't mean much if you can't translate it to the script.

Evan Guthrie

Yeah, but I felt part 2 was far stronger than they did, probably a B, raising the entire thing to a C.

Lozman73

I here your grievances... but basically.., it was a commentary on the LA riots of 1992. When four Los Angeles Police Department (LAPD) officers were acquitted in state court for the beating of Rodney King which lead to his death. The city erupted into what was almost a week of violence that would result in more than 50 people losing their lives. Scholars now describe that rioting as an "explosion of rage and frustration" that had been building. I don't mind the exposition for what it is... A Social Commentry on this theme... Sometimes truth IS stranger than fiction.., As far as episode craft does. albeit the pacing, the overly long monologing & sometimes questionable guest acting did leave a bit more to be desired. overall - I don't think i disliked the subject matter as much as TA seemed to on this one. It hits C+ into a Low B for me

BN13

I can't stand new Trek, but I'm not going to bash someone else for liking it. Sorry you had to deal with that. The one thing I can appreciate new Trek for is that not only does it offer a way for younger generations to be introduced to Trek (and hopefully watch and like the older stuff too,) but it also gets everyone discussing things, which ultimately is what I feel Star Trek is supposed to do.

Evan Guthrie

You want to know why? Because the real life parallels are so abstract here that people can ascribe whatever real life issue they want to it, whichever they feel the most passionate about. The patron takes are riddled with modern day comparisons. Star Trek 6 was so obvious, and is largely irrelevant today. When TA doesn't like the episode, it subconsciously makes the patrons feel like they don't care about the issue they're passionate about, and they get angry. That's my interpretation at least.

Evan Guthrie

Anything can be a pulpit I guess

Evan Guthrie

Josh and Alex love snatching the rose tinted glasses off our face and stomping them into the dirt.

Evan Guthrie

I think they, Alex especially, could have done a better job resetting for part 2. Because yes part 1 is definitely the far weaker of the 2.

Evan Guthrie

I think this is a good take. The real life parallels that people think they are seeing are completely by accident.

Evan Guthrie

Yeah Dr Stubbs would be a celsius snob

Evan Guthrie

How dare you insult the Chief's marriage? Blasphemy!

Evan Guthrie

It's funny (unless it's star trek 6)

Evan Guthrie

I find it kind of funny that the district residents' complaints were "we want jobs, not welfare" and I think people are overlooking that

BN13

For a lot of fans, myself included, we don't view Star Trek as "just a TV show." In fact, I'd say we don't view it as a TV show at all. We view it as a world. Whether it's a world we like to escape to, a world we personally identify with, or a world that we hope represents our own future. That's why a lot of fans don't notice the stuff like the directing, the acting, and everything involving how the show was made. That stuff is irrelevant to us. What matters to us is what the show is trying to say. Also, a lot of us probably feel like we were raised by Star Trek and other TV at the time. It's helped shape the core of a lot of our values. That's why it's really hard to hear an episode that had a profound impact on our lives get picked apart. It can be hard to not personally identify with it sometimes. So in a way, Star Trek IS like religion to a lot of people. And when people treat it casually, these fans feel like their beliefs and values are being treated casually as well, or aren't being taken seriously, or worse, being completely dismissed.

Dr. Paul Stubbs

I am a metric system snob, but I prefer F to C for everyday temperature readings. Having to specify decimals on a thermostat is terrible.

Forbidden Donut

I think one of the differences is those other episodes were about our characters, whereas this one feels more like our characters are just getting caught up in someone else's story. They're out of place and time, not experiencing this stuff in their own time because of their own struggles. Here, they're in and out in a matter of days, first trying to be 'invisible' to history then pretending to be someone else, then disappearing forever from the situation.

Tim b

What point? I am glad this era of Star Trek rarely goes full on “let’s make characters from the future lecture the audience on the present issue of the week “

Paul

If Trek can inspire us to ensure the future sucks less, well, that's powerful imo.

Jill Barker

You are of course entitled to your point of view which I refute. TOS City at the edge of forever and DS9 Past Tense both regularly top lists of best Star Trek episodes ever. Many consider that Past Tense is one of the most prophetic social critiques Star Trek has ever done. Both episodes go back in time, accidentally mess up the future , then try to figure a way to prevent the future being changed. Both episodes concentrate on activist Central characters who are trying to help the less privileged.. in both cases the activists are ultimately replaced or sacrificed to ensure that the future remains unchanged. Surprisingly, it is Deep Space 9 (which is often regarded as being darker and more pessimistic than .TOS ) that gives us a more optimistic rejoinder in the episode Past Tense than Original series City on the edge of forever. Both Kirk and Sisko face the same dilemma- how to preserve the timeline. Two brilliant episodes handling a time travel dilemma slightly differently. Both are social commentaries which present harsh realities as the consequences of ideologies and policies by government in their respective timelines. Star Trek has always pointed out social disparity on the dangers of collective apathy. That is not new. The characters of Michael Webb., Gabriel Bell and Edith Keeler share the same principles . They are all sympathetic characters that the viewers care about. At least , most of us do. Both City and Past Tense are about collective inaction towards the problems faced by the underprivileged in society. Bashir asks how people in the early 21st century ever allowed things to get so bad. Bell sacrifices his own life to defend Sisko and Bashir. Edith dreams of a better future when all the money spent on war is used for the living. God, I love the bravery and foresight of Trek writers who gave us such wonderful insights. They were never afraid to point out that humanity has a tendency to ignore consequences of our actions . Humanity is always part of the sci-fi universe., Not separate from it.

Deep Red

Especially when a big talking of the review was about how TA only care about the content of the episode and not the social context of it. Alex kind of demonstrated that it is in fact difficult to evaluate something entirely in a vacuum and not bring your own biases into a review.

Deep Red

I mean, Alex and Josh were pretty passionate in their hatred of this episode. So an equal response is valid.

Ca$hWednesday

There's plenty of other Trek series that show optimism. DS9 I like for not always ending on a good feeling.

North

Yeah, we like very much the idea that there's a better world ahead of us. We're generally not so keen on the reminder that we're going to have to do some of the heavy lifting if we ever want to get there. 😁

ShazD

I didn't like this episode either and found some of the writing on the nose and preachy. Good to see you agree 😂

North

Yeah, those channels need a steady diet of homebrewed rage-ohol to maintain an audience. The TA guys? From what I've seen in 2+ years of following their reactions, they're big softies for romance (and I mean that with full affection), they get giddy over favorite directors, they care so little for being the joyless Smartest Guy In The Room that they cheer when an episode pulls one over on them, etc. That's just not their bag, it seems to work well for them, and it's the main reason I enjoy the channel enough to pay money for access, while most of my reaction/review watching is YT only. (That's not to say they don't get hot under the collar about plot/character developments, that's part of giving a fig about Trek, but it's always been reaction proportional to the fact that this is commentary on a TV show.) So Alex ragebaiting himself against an imagined Hollywood liberal elite and Josh being dismissive of people thinking that was uncalled for is kinda disheartening.

Oberhauser-Blofeld

I was 21 years old when this came out and I thought it was meh, but that’s Star Trek at times. It has moral allegory with cheesy exposition that can be rather pedestrian and self-righteous but it didn’t deviate much from the characters basic personality and character persona. Modern trek deconstructs canon and is far worse at being preachy. I didn’t hate it as much as Josh and Alex; but then again I’m a “cheap date” when it comes to being entertained. It takes a lot for me to hate some show or episode. But I appreciate Josh and Alex’s honest takes even if I don’t agree with them.

Dead Hedge

500 comments lol!!! To everyone mad about the reaction to this two parter: I certainly don’t mind the episodes, but even Ira Steven Behr, the blue goatee himself, has gone on record saying he thinks it’s a stinker 🤣

Loot Narsbaar

I think it’s impossible. I respect that both J and A unapologetically react on how whatever hits them in the moment. However, the context of when and where the art in question came to be matters. You have to acknowledge something like this wasn’t written for an audience in 2026, and it attempts to depict something decades in the (I would argue) distant future and not the current day. If you think it doesn’t work because of bad story, acting, direction, or x y and z that is fair. Saying it doesn’t work because 2024 isn’t the (distant) future is not fair. I remember watching this with my family when it aired initially in 95 and my mom asked how old I’d be in 2024 and I said 40, older than she was, and she burst out laughing because that was so unimaginably so far off in the future.

Target Audience

No, because that episode is about Kirk falling in love and then having to sacrifice it for the greater good.

EmptyDice

One thing that I like about the Prophets is that they are a scientific explanation to spiritual beings. Wormholes are very classic sci-fi concept, extra-dimensional being are also a classic sci-fi trope. Putting those two tropes together was a very clever move. They've merge spirituality and science beautifully, I think. The Only thing in Star Trek that I would consider fantastic are the Q, but they might just be so much more advanced that they seem like magic, like in Arthur C. Clark's classic sci-fi trope "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic". However, in nuTrek and especially Discovery there are a bunch of technologies and events that are completely fantastic without any scientific basis whatsoever, and that's what is turning me off the most. There are also the characters whose whole personalities are based on their sexual orientation or gender expression, which make them insufferable. While I understand that this is a consequence of the times, I would have thought that after 3 shows they could make them deeper and smarter, but after watching Starfleet Academy's first episode, I can see that they've only doubled down on it to a point surpassing the ridiculous. I am not dissing anyone who likes nuTrek, only presenting my views of it. I would honestly like to know what people love about it. Because as far as I've seen from the reviews, people seem to appreciate the "message", the comedy and the set designs, all things that have nothing to do with Sci-fi or Star Trek, I've seen no one praise the science accuracy. Since we've lost Star Trek, which piece of media will inspire young people into careers in science and technology? There isn't any mainstream media right now that present science and technology as something good and inspirational, which is very worrying for the future.

Doctor Pulaski

The bar does seem to change... they had much more tolerance for much more poorly made early TNG episodes. I think they would admit to this, though.

Deliximus

Oh? Interesting. When did he say that. Honest question

Dead Hedge

Apologies for the vagueness, it’s been a while, but I believe it was a few years ago (most likely when the what we left behind doc was coming out) when he was interviewing on the 7th rule podcast. They were kind of praising him for it and he said something to the effect of “no. No. I don’t think it was very good. I think I dropped the ball”

Ken R

Someone else's story, the keyword is story. There is a story here. that's something I looked for in countless episodes of TNG like "Transfigurations" where the guy comes on and is ascending to godhood, but then says "yeah, I am perfectly fine with these powers, sorry, you will have to find a story elsewhere" Had Gary Mitchell had that attitude there would never have been a Star Trek. Or that awful one where Q shows up with the girl who is a potential Q and then for 25 minutes all we see is Beverly asking her how she feels and what she wants. Those deserved Es and didn't receive them. I don't care if people go against the tide, I do it all the time and with TNG literally all the time, but you need consistency in your logic.

Matchstick Jose

Ira Behr is definitely his own worst critic. For what it's worth, Robert Hewitt Wolfe was on The Delta Flyers podcast for part 1. He rated it an 8.0, said he would punch up the pace, but overall he thought it worked.

River Acheron

Fine but why get angry about what others think about anything? I care what I think.

David Kirk

It might be epic or they might fall asleep. I have no idea how I was able to watch everything past Enterprise. I was constantly making fun of episodes.

Holodeck Prompt Engineer

90% of the time I watched new Trek, I looked like Alex watching this two parter. Just desperately hoping they could right the ship.

Dead Hedge

I will say this : I have never seen a Robert Hewitt Wolfe interview I did not love. Gonna have to give that one a listen. I think there’s a Tex-trek interview he does where he gets real candid about Berman almost firing his ass because of a misunderstanding over the dominion and some mail getting cced to him.

Godzilla PhD

Ira is very hard on himself, but that's probably why he drove DS9's writers room so hard. He has flipped flopped on Past Tense in various interviews over the years, but that's not unusual given how many years it been. I think he finds the episode so odd now because how similar some of the themes are now compared to 1995.

Greg Quinn

Be careful... you'll get called "woke" saying that. 😉

Greg Quinn

Well generally as time moves forward ideas that used to be called "woke" (or the equivalent term) become more accepted by everyone. 20 years ago the majority of people didn't support gay marriage. That has shifted (although I think it has lost a little ground in the past year or so....). So just because something on trek from years ago doesn't seem left leaning to you now that doesn't mean it wasn't seen as left leaning then.

Target Audience

Everything is always a joke. We don’t know these people. We are watching tv.

Colby

Aron Eisenberg played Nog, a young Ferengi character on Star Trek Deep Space Nine (not featured in this episode).

Aaron Wells

Historical commentary is not allowed! Nein! 😆

Aaron Wells

Actually, yeah. It accidentally lined up with 21st century stuff...despite being a response to the LA riots.

Aaron Wells

WW3 would have been middle of the 21st century.

Shane Coombs

BN13, I would be among the group you described in your first paragraph. I am just baffled that THIS is an episode that people have reacted to so strongly. It's one of the most mundane, pointless messages of any episode in the franchise... a message that almost nobody of any political background would disagree with. Whether in 1996 or today this is a message with no audience addressing a problem that nobody fears or foresees. There are certainly concerns about poverty in general, but the angle taken on it hear is completely out of the blue and *might* have been relevant in 1365 or some such time. As I said above, I can *absolutely* see people responding so strongly to a dismissive reaction to any number of episodes, but the fact that it's this one and that it's this message just completely boggles my mind.

Gary Evans

Thought so, 2050’s appox 👍🏻

Allen W Wright

I remember Robert Hewitt Wolfe on the Star Trek newsgroups when the show was airing in the 1990s. He was an absolute delight. And not a single post made from a limousine.

A Plain and Simple Tailor

You guys are normally fun and balanced with your reviews This one was two edgelords whining

brian

I love your reactions, even if I disagree. It's refreshing that your reactions are real and not bullshit to try to get more "likes". I happen to agree on these episodes. I think they are fucking boring, but even if I disagree, I don't care, your reactions are yours, and they're real. I don't need you to like everything I do. That's not realistic. If I was watching with friends, which is how you guys make it feel, we're not all going to agree. Keep doing what you're doing. Your honesty and pure reactions, even when you hate it, is refreshing

STEMBOB

Was looking forward to their reaction on this one. Wish I hadn't bothered, truth hurts I guess.

Loot Narsbaar

What I thought was missing from the post episode discussion was that this is the episode where Sisko and Bashir become Picard/Crusher level heroes. It's a giant step forward for their characters.

Jill Barker

Agreed. I stopped watching J and A’s reactions half way through the first episode. There was absolutely no point in continuing . Once they go into hate mode early on they become unwatchable because their dislike is not reasoned or logical to a viewer. I have better things to do than listen to them ranting and I get more and more annoyed when they mock episodes I have cared about for decades. Of course they are entitled to their views but this is the second time I have got rattled - last time it was their reaction to the Jem Hadar.

Greg Quinn

I haven't read any good Qanon fan fiction in awhile. Thanks

Spencer Loften

The real problem is the entire reaction/review is just not enjoyable to watch. It's easily the worst one they have put out since I started watching in early TNG. There have been plenty of episodes they hated where the reaction/review was at least fun to watch. I personally don't care if they like/dislike something. I just want it to be enjoyable as a viewing experience. It's not really a huge deal in the grand scheme of things. I am still looking forward to the rest of the season.

Shatner’s Cigarette

Did you know that one actor dude, what’s his name? The guy who played the character of Hawk in Spencer for Hire and the spin-off A Man Called Hawk back in the early 90s is in this episode? I think his name is Avery Brooks.

Michael Nemo

I don't think context matters to them because it's not entertaining; that's the bottom line. Doesn't matter that it was 30 plus years ago and what was going on in the us or what prompted the writing. it just wasn't entertaining today and that's why the writers need to be insulted.

Michael Nemo

It was a terrible look honestly and it seriously turned me off. It felt so unnecessary and over the top to attack the writers as elitists. And I left a comment as such and it got deleted. By the way, Alex won't read this.

STEMBOB

Usually enjoy your reactions but this one for me was pretty bad,I could see you didn't care for it in the first 10 minutes. I get it fine. But you complained and sniggered throughout. Wasn't an enjoyable watchalong sorry.

Michael Nemo

“But humanity is bad today Josh, granted none of the people making this show were doing anything about it, but they’re going to tell us. I’m sure on the way to work that day they walked by all of these people in California, with their blinders on. ‘I’m going to write about saving you, I’m going to write about your plight’.” - Alex The notion that the writers or makers of the series are elitists is ridiculous. I said as much when you first posted this reaction and my response was deleted. Along with more than a few others that I saw posted that were echoing my sentiments. Also deleted. I have to say that it was really an ugly look to have this level of vitriol happen with such a mediocre episode in an otherwise great TV series. Everything I've seen from the writers room from this show behind the scenes has conveyed some of the most well intentioned and thought out and thoughtful storylines. That quote above and the sentiment behind it is such a blight on your channel in my opinion.

STEMBOB

I do wonder if this episode wasn't set on earth if they would of liked it more?

STEMBOB

I worry about their reaction to FBS

Travis Boyle

True. Most tv writers aren't super rich

Target Audience

I’m sure the writers will survive a joke made by YouTubers, they are big boys.

Michael Nemo

True, but not the point. The point is that the "joke" felt ugly and nasty taking me and others completely out of the experience of watching a reaction. There was no humor conveyed when Alex said it. His tone was dark and he dismissed you when you tried to shut it down. Dismiss and delete my comments all you want but a "big boy" would acknowledge some of your audience's experience with mature words instead of brushing them off.

Michael Nemo

Doubtful. The story needed a bit more and they completely missed the context of watching it 30 years ago.

STEMBOB

I've watched a different reaction to this episode on YT/Patreon and it's a much better reaction than this one. Rolypoly reactions. I don't mind they didn't like it ,it's just the reaction. Hopefully they will be back on form for future reactions.

Target Audience

It’s a video on the internet. You’re free to not enjoy it, but it’s not that serious. I promise no one involved in making this episode would be as mad about this video as you are right now. You don’t need to get offended on their behalf.

Michael Nemo

I'm offended on MY behalf. I can't believe you're making this worse. This tactic of dismissing what a viewer says because it doesn't affect the writers or I'm free to not like it ignores everything I've said. Next you'll say I can choose to not pay for it and still never approach a subscriber with a mature adult response with emotional intelligence. This isn't even about Alex's dumb statement and over-the-top anger anymore. It's that I'm being met with a subpar middle-management response to a benign grievance.

Ian Meyers

I've been waiting for YT edits of DS9 bc of my schedule. I got Interested to look at the comments…holy shit what'd you guys do??

Target Audience

Didn't like the episode, so we roasted it and made some people mad. You know, usual TA stuff.

Target Audience

You've been here longer than almost anyone Micheal. This is how I always talk in comments. It's not a management response, it's my genuine response that we say all the time in our content. It's not that serious. That's literally the quote in our rules, since day 1. I'm sorry you didn't enjoy the video. Hopefully you will enjoy the next one more, if you choose to watch it. Hope you have a good weekend.

STEMBOB

Lots of passionate fans on here old and new. It is difficult to watch when someone doesn't like an episode of your favourite show. However I have watched episodes which I didn't like and you loved. Swings and roundabouts I guess. On to the next one !

Ian Meyers

Amazing how I see comments about how Alex gets angry and shuts down during an episode when it seems like that's what some people are doing for the reaction. Never change guys. 🤣

Michael Nemo

I don't care that they didn't like it.

Reece Hart

I come in 3 days late and see 643 comments. I feel like Antman in Endgame when he's looking around asking "What happened here?"

Derek Locke

No. Progressive is compassionately laying out issues that should be discussed in a level headed, meaningful way that made you stop and think. Pre Kurtzman Trek was masterful at this. Woke is screaming, crying and generally shoving a viewpoint down someone’s throat until they gag on it. Post Kurtzman Trek is definitely the latter.

Mel Primus

I think the concept was okay, but this was a dull, uninteresting part one.

Raphael Gaytan

I just finished part one of your reaction, guys!! I just had to chime in…Alex damn near made me piss myself laughing so hard mimicking that one shitty actor’s mouth movements!! I remember doing the exact same thing in 1995!! Take my Patreon money…that made it all worth it!! 👏😂

MJBull

I believe, when the show aired, Brynner was probably a reference to Bill Gates and/or Steve Jobs.

MJBull

Because there is no one who thinks homelessness is good. The show does not offer much of solution to the problem, since these are TV writers and actors.

Ryan K

3 days later after The Incident, I see this note on Memory Alpha about the episodes and it makes me laugh: "Ira Steven Behr was disappointed by the lack of media interest in this episode. "When we did 'Past Tense', I expected all this media attention and the little media attention we got was almost entirely negative," he explained. "The fan reaction was great.""

MJBull

No, the government is killing "indiscriminately". You have had a couple of incidents where LEOs have lost their cool in the face of significant provocation.

Raphael Gaytan

Just finished part two’s reaction and decided to gloss over a few of the 650 comments! Jesus, guys…you sure scorched the earth with this reaction! Your frustrations with this episode mirror my frustrations with DS9 in general. I haven’t been as enamored with this season as you have. That being said, I agree with most of your comments about this episode. Star Trek has always been about holding a mirror up to society’s problems and providing commentary, but it’s always best when it’s done in a sublime way…not so in your face with “DO BETTER!” in neon. Personally, I had fun watching Alex shut down and Josh trying to find the good wherever he could in this episode! Keep being honest, guys! Now to get back to these fucking hilarious comments! 🖖😆

Raphael Gaytan

I’m sure I’ll catch grief for this, but it was pretty crazy to see a SAG card carrying actor whose acting is actually worse than Avery Brooks! RIP, Mouthman.

MJBull

It was not exactly poor either. Writers are not exactly blue collar working stiffs.

MJBull

And the people pushing solutions are pushing ones that make things worse.

Scarpad’s Domain

Totally fair. You can say you dislike it, give an explanation why and move on, but to get so over the top indignant about it says it’s hitting you personally, so when they come on here and say chill it’s only a tv show, they need to start taking their own advice. At a certain point it became they continued to “own the fans” and we see enough of that now in the real world

Sic Coyote

Unfortunately there are many people who don't like the homeless being around, but have no problem with it and feel it is deserved. "If they didn't want to be homeless. They should have done better"

Evan Guthrie

That's nothing. I'm still pissed about Star Trek 6.

Rich Loga

I have not seen these episodes since they originally aired in January 1995. I wouldn’t say I loved it back then but I remembered it enough to appreciate all the Gabriel Bell memes back in 2024. I definitely didn’t remember how slow boring part 1 is, it’s like watching paint dry 😴

Doctor Pulaski

I didn’t realize filming someone on your phone was a death sentence. You are right, they had it coming. Masked “agents” should be allowed to do as they wish and kill as they please. That’s exactly the oath I took when I swore to uphold the constitution in my military service: let a bunch of masked bozos with a fraction of the training we had hassle legal citizens and shoot them in the street execution style.

Matt Moylan

Not the place for politics dude, this is an entertainment channel.

River Acheron

At first I thought he was Bear from X-Files 'Ice' but I looked him up and it is not. He IS in X-Files though.

River Acheron

Really? I think it's absolutely hilarious when they dislike something. I think people just need to lighten up because it's just a TV show.

River Acheron

Michael, I think getting offended by a snarky reaction is rediculous. So my favorite franchise is Silent Hill. I was super excited for the new movie and it turned out to be an absolute awful trainwreck. I didn't get upset or mad, I laughed so hard and had a blast. That is the attitude people need to take. It's just all stupid entertainment at the end of the day. It's certainly not something to get mad about. Less so when it's someone ELSES opinion. Live life and have FUN! We need to stop taking life seriously imo

River Acheron

Antarctica is stupid and useless. ....there. I said it.

Gavin Hewitt

Yeah 😢 hearing the episide bad is fine, watching a tantrum is poor form

Michael Nemo

You and Josh aren't understanding me. Alex shit on the writers as elitists for writing something he didn't like. He expressed it in a way that felt really dark and ugly. Sure it's a reaction but it made things awkward. Josh tried twice to shut it down or dismiss it and Alex continued. Then I posted about it saying it felt ugly and my post was deleted. There was another post similar to mine that got deleted. Now I'm being told that that's been their character forever and it's being framed that I didn't like their reaction bc I liked the episode. Just clearing that up for you River.

Derek Orr

Wow. I find this pacing normal and full…not frantic like many modern shows

Derek Orr

Jesus. Harsh Avery is an amazing actor

Derek Orr

It’s just a tv show yes but this particular episode is obviously particularly poignant and timely given the seriousness of what is happening in America with ICE and sanctuary cities etc

Derek Orr

White knight on blue sky? wtf Alex. What is wrong with BlueSky

Derek Orr

Oh boy…that could be interesting

Derek Orr

But the Cold War ….:)

Derek Orr

No one has crashed their car

Raphael Gaytan

His. Acting. Is. So. Wooden. He. Takes. Me. Out. Of. Every. Scene. He’s. In. 🙄

Derek Orr

A few weeks after the events of Minneapolis , one would expect a bit more of an emotional impact about the nature of commentary

Derek Orr

Which one is that?

Derek Orr

Yes but to not even acknowledge how timely this episode is when we have ICE and Minneapolis…is disturbing. Criticism about pacing and acting and dialogue is understandable but my god this episode is a gut punch of reality about what is happening right now

Derek Orr

Ugh ..you might be right

Derek Orr

Except it’s a tv show that is usually about quite serious matters…it’s not supposed to be fun silly tv

Derek Orr

It’s theatre kids having fun and just referencing previous better Star Trek

Derek Orr

The Orville disagrees

Derek Orr

Because it often is not just a tv show.

Derek Orr

It’s the absence of realization about how timely this episode is given ICE and MAGA

Derek Orr

For me it’s all that, but not the taking it personally part..it’s jaw dropping and sad the lack of discussion about this episode paralleling the decline of American society

Derek Orr

Because Minneapolis just happened that’s why

Derek Orr

Oh god I missed that. That’s sad and disappointing

Derek Orr

Star Trek is social commentary not sci fi

Derek Orr

No the similarities are the decline of rights and democracy into authoritarian government violence

Derek Orr

You mean like the rest of the planet ?

Derek Orr

No it’s actually worse than this

Derek Orr

Jesus when did everyone get all right wing and hating on being woke

Derek Orr

Your president is tweeting out racist cartoons about one of his predecessors. Your already trigger happy aggressive law enforcement gets worse with all this ICE stuff (who are not really LEOs in the normal sense) People are having rights taken away ….abortions , serving in the military while being a trans person , nope no more. Oh and only accepting white people for immigration….. yes things are worse than in this episode

Derek Orr

It’s a show about social commentary on our society and the human condition. You can’t play the hand waive it’s not the place for it game

Shane Coombs

I do not see how one can draw parallels between this episode and not just ICE, but literally anything in the contemporary US. There are just not parallels.

Target Audience

So, because ICE is bad in real life, that makes this episode good? That’s not how we judge the show. We judge it on being a tv episode.

DRedd

Dude isn't saying the episode is good. He literally said it was mediocre. He's saying that the vitriol is both unwarranted and strangely ugly, that the response of deleting comments that pointed this out is off putting, and that the misrepresentation of such comments in your responses, intentional or otherwise, is disappointing. Frankly I agree. 1995 was 31 years ago. This episode was about an entirely hypothetical future at the fringe extremes of possibility. You can't complain about the writer's room being elitist just because 31 years later it hits a little too close to home when they were just doing what literally all sci-fi does all the time.

Loot Narsbaar

Yeah a lot of people think homelessness is good. It's part of why this episode came to be.

D Gyre

Damn, guess I'm one of the few that actually loves these episodes? I didn't know so many people didn't like them. There's also nothing wrong with being woke, but yes that really does depend on how you personally define woke. I found the ending discussion really interesting, because some of the best episodes, like Measure of a Man, are inherently aligning with a political belief. The ideals presented in trek episodes, the view of what the future could be, the qualities inherent in the characters, are all political in some fashion. I think maybe their is some confusion of partisanship and politics? Almost sounds like you think politics is picking a political party. It's striking for me because I've listened to you guys do exactly what you are saying you don't do there at the end. Our political ideals, just like our perspectives and moral values, shape what we like and why we like it.

Target Audience

There’s hundreds of comments here criticizing the video, I clearly don’t delete anything regarding that. The only comments that get deleted are ones that break the rules of the channel, such as personal attacks. Not liking our reaction to a tv episode doesn’t mean a personal non-content related attack is allowed to be posted.

Michael Nemo

And so then the actual subjectmatter remains unaddressed. Complaint invalidated. Middle-management doesn't address perceived wrongs; they can only enforce rules and morale suffers.

Michael Nemo

Look, I may be advocating here for a very mature form of communication that is just not warranted perhaps on a streaming reaction channel. So let me just say that you know that I've been a big fan since the beginning and we don't always agree which is fine. It's expected. This is the first time that one of you has gone to a really ugly place and I felt it greatly. It was momentary, didn't last a minute. But it was intense. And I had to address it. What I was met with was a deletion. Which to me spelled out invalidation. And I was shocked. And all the communication since then has been about the episode or that I didn't like that you didn't like it or rules. And not once has it been addressed of the ugliness and the intensity. And I realize this isn't a process group or psychotherapy, but I had thought that maybe it would be in the most minute way addressed or mentioned. And that's just a little sad. But it's fine. I'll move on.

Kate Courtney

Nevermind you guys glossing over the fact that DS9 predicted the future! Yes, I get that there is A LOT of exposition but they are telling you the back story of how the federation came to be. That things had to get worse to get better. I thought you guys liked the back stories.

Badmiral Burgess

You love Subrosa but you guys don’t like this? Hahaha I enjoyed this one and is a favorite. Of course not perfect but far better than subrosa or Meridian

Anonymous Science

(Comment after part 1) Alex watches The Measure of a Man, which preaches at him slavery is bad. Doesn't realize he is being preached to. Loves it. Alex watches I, Borg, which preaches at him genocide is bad. Doesn't realize he is being preached to. Loves it. Alex watches Past Tense , which preaches to him about how wealth inequality and oligarchy is bad. I don't think he realizes what he is being preached about, but does realize he is being preached to. F'in hates it. A huge percentage of Trek episodes preach a progressive humanist message. Literally the goal of the franchise. And a large number of them aren't subtle. The Measure of a Man, Picard literally says the message out loud half-way through the episode. The Drum Head doesn't hide the McCarthyism parallels at all. Kirk fighting Nazis, Saving the Whales, and witnessing the race war between the Cheron. None of it subtle. That all being said, yeah, there are some problems with the episode for sure. I don't think the technobabble is that bad. There isn't that much of it. It does get an eyeroll, especially since one character delivers basically all of it. The guest actor for the "ghost" is terrible. The pace is slow as all hell, because they are clearly stretching an insufficient amount of material to two parts. To Josh's point that setting it in 2024 is a cop out. It is set then to show us where things will be in 30 years if we don't take corrective action. And given that the first trillionaire is imminent while people starve, I think they got it spot-on. We are now in the future where we didn't learn the lesson from this episode.

Anonymous Science

(Comment after part 2) I am confused that Josh and Alex don't see Star Trek IV as majorly activist. Are they not aware of the 1970's/1980's "Save the Whales" environmentalist campaign that eventually drove the 1986 global ban on commercial whaling? Star Trek IV carries the water of that huge environmentalist movement the whole movie. Humanity's future hangs in the balance on whether they can "Save the Whales". I can only imagine they are too young to have the historical context, which surprises me, given I am not that much older than them. On whether this episode is woke: Woke: alert to racial prejudice, discrimination, and systemic injustice. This episode takes on discrimination and particularly systemic injustice head-on. Part of your problem with this episode is how blunt it is with this message. It definitely qualifies as woke. The patron who calls it woke isn't expanding the definition at all. Josh and Alex keep flip-flopping between: I hate episodes which have moral grand-standing / are preachy and Some of our favorite episodes are preachy, the difference is whether is was executed well. These are contradictory points of views. I am hoping you believe the second one. It is the point of view Josh pushes towards the further the discussion goes on. But Alex in particular keeps coming back to "it was bad because it was grand-standing", which is a particularly baffling take to have on the humanist progressive space-communist show. Spock being mixed-race was a choice they made so they could be preachy. Having a Russian on the bridge of the Enterprise at the height of the Cold War was preachy. Casting a Japanese American concentration camp survivor was done to be preachy. If you don't like preachy... what are we doing here guys?

Michael Nemo

Yeah. It's all very sad to me. Not once has what I've brought up been addressed. Mediocre middle-management doesn't address grievances nor do they care when people quit.

Daniel Lysohirka

I love this episode, and I've seen it over 25 times, as all Star Trek episodes.

Derek Orr

The fact that they seem oblivious to how the message is so extra relevant today…is jaw dropping…and to be blunt, if Josh and Alex are representative of typical Americans…ya I can see why we got here, with people not really seeing what’s happening or short attention spans and not able to hold outrage beyond a short news cycle.

Josh Wood

Maybe the reason you don't like this one so much is because it's basically current day America

Keith Capirano

If you dont like their reactions or comments, you are free to leave.

Keith Capirano

For all those who want to interject politics, please go somewhere else. Ill pay extra if TA loses patrons.

Keith Capirano

Take your political bs somewhere else please. Stop trolling a reaction channel with your opinions. Thats not what these guys are here for. They do reactions to star trek. Plenty of places elsewhere for those discussions.

Keith Capirano

Preachy and woke episode, imo. Exactly why current trek has been ruined. People of josh and alex's generation are sick of being lectured at/too. Frankly so are most of us in america. Sorry if i ruined any future trek with spoilers. And as far as all these political comments and trolls, please find somewhere else to go with your political opinions. There are plenty of places in todays marketplaces you can troll all day long to your hearts desire. This is a reaction channel. And a good one with real people that have honest opinions. EVERYONE has a right to enjoy an episode or not, to each his own. Sometimes i agree with them other times i dont but i enjoy their channel. The constant ragging on these guys, usually by the same patrons, is starting to become ridiculous. You dont like their opinions then you are free to not watch it, no one is forcing you to watch. TA boys keep up the good work!!

Michael Nemo

Water is wet. The sky is blue. Sand is gritty. Got anymore nuggets from Mensa?

Ja Dav

Wealthy people in show business making scolds of themselves ... what could go wrong?

Einar Sigurðsson

amazing argument there Columbo, maybe if you are going to be so steadfast in ignorance, try to explain why it's not according to you?

Daragh Graham

I've had a few of those with the guys, and as I scrolled the comments, I think yours made up my mind to skip this one.

Aaron Wells

To be fair, Star Trek has always been "woke", as ridiculous as I feel even using that word, being a grown ass adult. 😆 Every Star Trek captain has been a walking checklist of liberal values. The entire future human society is basically a post scarcity communist utopia. You're just going to have to get into the spirit of things 😂

Aaron Wells

Well for my own part, I can just look out a window and see that that isn't the case. A homeless encampment under a bridge is not America. It's a fraction of a percent. When it gets over 50%, we can revisit this.

Keith Capirano

With a stupid made up name like that and you talk about my take. Who is acting like a 21yr old? Im way older then that and have been watching trek for over 50 years. Clowns like you is whats ruining all of star trek. Trek has made political and societial takes but not in a preachy way many a times, it can be done correctly. And true fans are sick of that nonsence especially in todays world. All you got to do is look at the results and the millions of fans the shows have lost recently. Thats why younger viewers love the older series as opposed to "kurtzman" trek. Thats the facts. Sorry if your upset over my comments, dr. Butthurt.

StonyD

I agree completely with J & A on this one. It was boring and pretentious in the 90's when it aired, and it's equally boring and pretentious now. A better script, pacing, plot....something. This one just didn't work.

StonyD

Hey guys! Thanks!!🤘🏼🖖🏼

Scott in Scotland

To more respectfully disagree a lot of us have left newer trek because it isn't "woke" enough and no longer has much in the way of interesting allegorical leftwing storytelling and world building. I can agree though that when it does throw us a bone it is extremely heavy handed.

Jakob Robinson

Another right wing culture warrior moron... Star Trek has always been what you call "woke" and "preachy" . I don't understand why idiotic conservative culture warriors like yourself would ever watch a show all about a post-capitalist multi-racial utopia to begin with. I can only conclude that you're too oblivious to understand Star Trek's message except for the handful of episodes that are so obvious that you can't miss it.

Prof Moff

DS9 sex scoreboard catch up version No scores that I saw (remember I am only catching up with the short versions) The sex score board Quark 5 Jadzia 3 Chief 1 Keiko 1 Odo 1 Kira 1 Bashir 1 Jake 1

paultardspambot .

The point isnt "poverty is bad". Its about hope and apathy. Which is one of the major "spiritual" themse of the show you guys arent connecting with. This ties into the whole "emmissary" stuff. and deeper, the themes of Star Trek. At this point, the show is very aware of the "utopian trek" thing and is asking questions about it, what does it mean to acheive that, what kind of spiritual state does it require? This is a gret two parter, one can I watch again and again in isolaton from the larger show.

uberelder

they're not connecting with it because they haven't seen the entire show yet. maybe don't spoil the themes of the show for them? insane idea, i know.

Sᴏᴄɪᴀʟ Kɪᴅ

Wow absolutely terrible take. lol this episode is easily a B at worst.