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UNCUT - Heart of Stone (DS9 S3E14) | Star Trek Journey 346 (Patreon)

Published:
2026-02-22 13:00:09
Edited:
2026-03-12 13:41:41
Imported:
2026-09
Tags:
stj

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Doctor Pulaski

Let’s see if they got worked today… S Tier for Nog scenes alone. Also O’brien & Odo in a kayak might be my favorite thing of all time.

William Roberts

Ever since they talked about really liking Nog, I’ve been waiting for this ep.

Fedora The Explorar

It is clear now that Ira and Robert have had a hand with all the Ronald D Moore scripts in terms of adding character scenes here and there and keeping the continuity. Its not just Moore doing the magic.

Trekkie74205

Deep Space Nine’s secret weapon is its amazing supporting cast. Actors not contractually obligated to appear at all. When Nog (NOG FOR FUCK’S SAKE) gets better scenes than Geordi ever got, you know you are in for something special. Salome Jens (female changling) credit being at the end of this episode shows the Producers can be sly when they want.

Troubled Tribble

This is definitely in my top 10 favorite cave episodes

tyranusfan

They got you GOOD! LOL

tyranusfan

Some of Star Trek's best episodes are just two people in a room.

Fedora The Explorar

Also on the actor credit thing, I think what matters here is the severity of the spoiler. It matters here because it is a late episode plot twist. Knowing that the actress who played the Changeling in the Search is in the episode would tip you off. It was Salome Jens personal request for her to be put at the end credits. Stuff like "Gul Dukat is in this episode" or "Gowron is in this episode" is just "oh cool", its not a huge plot twist and so the actor isnt likely to take a paycheck cut for that.

David Wayne Fox

This could be my favorite reaction from you two since I started watching you. No hearts of stone here. 🤍

Derek Locke

How about them not spoiling the twist by not putting Salome Jens in the credits!

Evan Guthrie

We like to call them "stage play" episodes

Trekkie74205

Also with the credits... They gave Salome Jens a "Special Guest Star" credit instead of "Guest Star" since she didn't get the exposure of the opening credits. It's possible they had to pay her more for "Special Guest Star", something they would not be willing to do on a regular basis, for guest stars. Just a theory.

Jonathon Tsagris

IIRC Salome asked not to have her name in the credits to preserve the surprise, even though she was entitled to have them there (it's possible it might even have been a pay cut for her)

Jonathon Tsagris

Josh: I'm certain, this is the best episode of the season. DS9: Hold my beer...

Trekkie74205

Per Memory Alpha, it was not her request, but she agreed. "Salome Jens consented to be listed in the end credits rather than the beginning credits so as not to spoil the reveal. She was credited as "Special Guest Star," rather than "Guest Star" as she had been..." According to the interwebs, Special Guest Stars are usually paid more under union rules.

Erik L Jerks

Ahh, the ancient sea chanty, Louie Louie.

Summer

I also contest that Nog does have the lobes but glad he wants to go to the academy

Erik L Jerks

Aaron Eisenburg discussed that scene with Avery on his podcast. He described it as one of his proudest acting moments and complimented Avery for making him dig deeper. The grab and shake wasn't scripted, but Avery decided on the second take to snap him out his routine and get the emotions up. Terry Farrell has similar stories of Avery working with his scene partners between takes to build connections. It's one of the reason he likes to direct the more emotional episodes.

Worf and Riker Ride Again

3 in a row! I haven’t seen this episode since I was a kid, I remembered the Odo / Kira scene but was blindsided by Nog’s powerhouse scene, which got me too!

Darren

The Nog stuff in this episode is worth an S on its own, the arc of Nog from background criminal to this is one of the shows best achievements. And the Odo stuff - I adore Odo he is one of my fave characters in all of Trek and Rene Auberjonois is superb here. One of my faves of s3. It’s episodes like this which is why I love Ira Steven’s Behrs take on the show. And it’s all subjective but my fave ep of s3 is still come to come.

Steven Linden

I like this episode, but I was always a bit disappointed by the decision to have Odo be in love with Kira. Always thought Odo should be asexual.

Jonathon Tsagris

This week on Star Trek DS9: The A plot and B plot engage in a tense contest to see who can make Alex cry more.

THE LORE!!!

Some amazing character leveling up in this episode. I remember when I first saw it, the "I'm in love with you too" line from fake Kira really put a sour taste in my mouth because it didn't sound like Kira and her cardboard boyfriend had just died. But Odo pouring his heart out to her earlier kind of convinced me that it was really her at that point. They got me. Salome Jens is great for the little time she had and hey, uncredited (so no spoiler, have they learned?). And it's scary how well she impersonated Kira, aside from a few lines, like the aforementioned telling Odo she loves him and asking him to name 3 times they've been in worse situations. I was excited for you guys to see this one, and I'm happy it was an S for you.

Jonathon Tsagris

It's not convenience that the female changeling can mimic a human - Odo is basically a kid in changeling terms (remember they weren't expecting him to find his way back for at least another century); and one that never had the opportunity to grow up in his own culture and learn from his people; so there's a massive skill gap there. Plus when you're the xenophobic secret leaders of a fascist empire I suspect learning how to perfectly imitate people is a core part of the school curriculum

Jonathon Tsagris

Can you imagine how long Morn must have to spend in makeup?

THE LORE!!!

I believe something like that was in the initial intention. But I think the producers were watching the dailies and there was a look Rene happened to give that looked like he was affected by Kira talking about her love life and they went from there.

THE LORE!!!

Dude never stops talking, so it probably takes forever.

Zenlike Creature

"The Streak Of Tears"! Couldn't put it better :) Great to see that the writing has pulled at your emotional strings. I find that out of all Trek series, DS9 does that the most to me. Always enjoy the episode. Two strong story lines. Look forward to hearing all your thoughts.

Ficial Intelligence

Reminder: In Sisko's very first interaction with Nog, Sisko had Nog arrested for being a thief. It's hard to get over that first impression.

Keith S

The seashanty Loui Loui makes a nice 60s pop culture joke. I wonder if you guys got it. You're so young.

Steven Linden

O.K., I'm going to talk to a brick wall about credits. There's a difference between cases where the presence of a character in an episode is a TWIST or SURPRISE within the episode and cases where it's just "this character is in the episode". In this one, OBVIOUSLY the presence of the female changeling is a twist. Same, for instance, for Denise Crosby's appearance at the end of "Redemption I". It seems pretty obvious that these are different from cases like "Sarek" or "Relics", where the whole PREMISE of the episode is the presence of the guest character. Which is not to say that it isn't also fun to be surprised by these appearances, but in these cases knowing the guest character doesn't spoil any twist within the episode itself.

Matthew McKinnon-Gray

I was watching TV in the 90s and I can confirm I read credits, so I call bullshit on reason C. That being said, I don’t think it’s that big of a deal (with a handful of exceptions) and nothing you say can convince me otherwise because I’m right ;)

Trent Bowles

Who would have thought the same species that appeared in "The Last Outpost" as cartoonish goblins carrying laser whips could produce such genuinely moving stories?

Matthew McKinnon-Gray

Counter Counterpoint: I was referring to the credits that played over the beginning of act one of an episode. They would air over actual scenes from the episode that you would watch to understand the rest of the episode I wouldn’t skip that part of the show

Gary Willig

The final scene with Sisko and Nog where Nog finally reveals his reasons for wanting to join Starfleet is one of the best in the franchise. It's the moment when people realize what a character arc they've been watching, and just perfect acting from Aron Eisenberg.

Sam Langanke

Ira confirmed in an interview that "they wrote where the two actors led them".

Sam Langanke

Mine too. And I suspect we mean the same.

Elizabeth N

Loved the reaction! I remember watching your early TNG reactions when you hated the Ferengi and thinking that I couldn't wait for you to get to episodes like this. Just proof that Ferengi storylines don't all have to be weird or goofy. It's a hard call, but I think Nog might be my favourite of the supporting cast.

Jonathan Llyr

Such a tour de force of an episode. Thank God for Rene Auberjonois and Aron Eisenberg. Glad I got to watch this one with you guys - this is my favourite Target Audience reaction yet.

Philbot

I heard the producers say that the 2 actors, their chemistry and the two characters they felt they “softened each others edges” and that led to romance..

Phenomenon (Doo - Dooo - Dah - Doo - Doo)

Nog's "Because I don't want to end up like my father!" speech definitely ranks among the Top 10 monologues in all Trek history. I don't want to make reference to some of the ones the guys have yet to hear, but it's up there with "Risk is our business", "There it sits!", and "I am alive. I will always be alive! It's Marritza who's dead!". I would have used a different DS9 speech for Sisko, but he hasn't delivered them yet as far as Josh & Alex know...... but you KNOW which ones I mean

Phenomenon (Doo - Dooo - Dah - Doo - Doo)

Question -- If you make a "counter-counter point", would that then just be a .... point? Or is this a three-dimensional debate tactic that I'm unaware of?

Philbot

I always liked the “She can never know I love her” trope. It was big in the 90’s I watched a lot of shows that featured the unrequited love story. I was a Caroline in the city fan! 😂

Duncan McDonald

Phew. Exhausted watching that reaction - in a good way! Such a wonderful episode. B plot? What B plot! Both were amazing.

Philbot

Chiefs shoulder should be fine! After John Doe healed him that should be like a magic forever fix.

Ryan

Between Odo coming out of his shell for nothing and Aron Eisenberg knocking the ball out of the park into another state, I was hoping for some serious emotional damage from this episode, and I was not disappointed. Hoping you guys are recovering nicely. There's a lot of season 3 left!

Philbot

Tears of the prophets could mean the wormhole itself. Tears in space time..

Summer

Its a long…..great season

Tim Nikiforovs

I'll admit, especially after it had been established that you guys loved Nog, I think we all expected the B plot to be the main draw of the episode. I did not foresee the A plot hitting as hard as it did too. I actually found a lot more appreciation for that half of the episode watching with you guys. I don't really agree with the idea that Odo being a changeling means he should be asexual or have no attraction to humanoids. Living with humanoids is all he's known, and even if assume a changeling wouldn't be wired to feel sexual attraction as we understand it, they can absolutely still be lonely. When we consider their natural state of existence is being intermingled and sharing ideas and feelings essentially nonstop, and Odo has been cut off from that for a very long time, it makes sense he would seek out a connection with SOMEONE, and Kira being his closest friend and confidant it's not unreasonable he would develop feelings for her. It's just his own antisocial nature holds him back from expressing it. I don't need to say more about the Nog and Sisko scene. It's amazing. However can we appreciate how much Rom has grown in the series. We've see that Rom isn't the idiot that Quark considers him to be. I don't think it's just his technical skills either. Rom is extremely unsure of himself, and that makes him LOOK like an idiot. However I think he's smart enough to recognize WHY Nog is choosing to join starfleet. I think he realizes he didn't give Nog an example of success to follow, and since making money is the only measure of success to Ferengi, Nog's only other choice was to pursue another culture's definition of success, in this case starfleet. Now Rom could have been insulted. He could have been selfish and insisted his son play the same stacked deck he did like a good ferengi. Instead he just wants his son to be happy, regardless of what Quark or anyone else thinks. Whatever else Rom is or isn't, he proved himself a solid dad here.

Jack Molitor

Holy shit…they got BOTH of you for completely different reasons!!! Love this show.

Ross Townsend

I adore this episode so much, Nog being my 2nd fave DS9 character, but I enjoyed your reactions even more. Wish I'd commented a take on this, but so much more to come now that "the show has arrived" *inset eye roll*. You guys are right. These scenes hit so hard because of the story work put in for these characters from the very start.

Marko

Exactly, that is an obvious reason in my opinion as well. I also knew they were going to use this example for furthering their argument with issues about the credits. Which is fair it's their opinion. I just think it's wrong in this case given there is an obvious difference between the two kind of reveals, this was necessary for the story, Armin Shimerman in Voyager wasn't. Apart from your personal preference, which is fine. But it needs to be framed as a personal preference, and not an objective reason the show does something wrong. To be fair, there are some reveals Star Trek series did I completely disagree with, because I thought they were detrimental objectively to the story (any kind of mystery reveal or major plot thing). And there are many that are not really that important. But if you had to either have them every time as reveals regardless of the severity of spoiler, or not have them at all, then yes of course I would want them removed completely. So I do understand Josh here.

Matchstick Jose

So, I believe I’ve heard Armin Shimerman mention that regular cast members get paid whether they’re in an episode or not. However, even the regular cast members only get residuals if they actually appear in the episode. The writers know this, and that’s why they try to give them at least one scene an episode.

Marko

I loved this, great reaction guys. I was wrong I thought it was going to be other way around, that Josh was going to be moved more with the Kira story and Alex was going to be more emotional on Nog's end. But you ended up tearing on the oposites, that surprised me a little bit and I loved it.

Shortskirtsandexplosions

I'm glad this episode was such a hit with y'all, and mad respect for how much you appreciate Eisenberg's and Auberjonois' acting. That being said, I think mad props needs to be given to Nana Visitor as well. She GAVE Rene something incredible to work off of. I, too, am absorbed into Odo's monologue, but that scene is so spectacular because it's a master class work by both actors, in my opinion. Alex was quick to guess the "twist" of the episode, and I suspect the writers clued the audience in that most had reason to assume that Kira wasn't who she claimed to be. But Nana Visitor's despair and sorrow sells it being HER so dayum well that we allow ourselves to be placed in Odo's place, who is ALSO being emotionally manipulated. All in all, this is a great blossoming of all the characters, made possible by fantastic acting through and through. Avery Brook is also fantastic in his scene(s) with Nog. This is just DS9 hitting it out of the park, delivering to us after so much patience and loyalty invested into a plot and world that's far more elaborate than TNG's (no offense). Super glad that I can continue this journey with y'all. It truly is the highlight of my week~

Matchstick Jose

(Josh laughing through tears) “This show is not good for people with issues like us.” Honestly, I think that’s why so many of us love and connect with the show on such a deep level. It's the most... hew-mon.

Scribe31oz

I think its established that Odo is young for a Changeling while the others are hundreds of years old so they would have had more experience transforming into humanoids. As for Nog, its telling in the last episode that he is the one who agrees that he and Jake are going to have different values and he was attempting to modify his behaviour during the date to date a human (failed utterly of course but hey he's Ferengi). In retrospect, that episode foreshadows his willingness to adapt to maintain his friendships with Jake, as in the no double date, because he was getting ready to take a much bigger swing with Starfleet.

Matchstick Jose

On Tumblr recently, Robert Hewitt Wolfe posted some insight into René Auberjonois’ process as an actor that I found fascinating. “Rene almost never asked for changes or had problems with the scripts, so we didn't interact much with him. "I do remember seeing one of his scripts once and noting two things: He wrote incredibly detailed notes about every scene to help him track his character and performance and dig into his motivations and attitudes. He used a black sharpie to cross out every parenthetical or bit of stage direction that dictated how Odo was feeling or acting. He likewise removed all indications of beats or pauses. He wanted to figure that stuff out himself. "(It's worth pointing out that not every actor works this way. But Rene did and he was my first exposure to this sort of process.) "Seeing his notes, I was impressed by 1 and a bit humbled by 2. As a writer, I agonize over every word, every ellipsis, every bit of screen direction. I work very hard to find the exact right way to convey the characters' attitudes, dilemmas and emotions in every scene. But seeing Rene's notes helped me understood that, for many actors, the best way to execute a strong performance is to ignore every single bit of that carefully crafted content and find their own truth to the scene. And since Rene was a master of his craft, he always nailed his scenes, even if he didn't play them exactly how we intended. "I've tried to remember that going forward. I still do my best to convey subtext and emotion and all that, but I also understand there's a reasonable chance, depending on a specific actor's approach to their craft, that they will need to ignore all of that and find their own truth. Seeing Rene's script pages was an important lesson, and a powerful reminder that TV and screen writing are team sports.”

Reality Strikes

I told you guys at the beginning you’d love the Ferengi.

Target Audience

Everything we ever say about anything is our preference and nothing is objective. That’s the framing of our entire channel. Our name is Target Audience.

Steven Linden

And I totally understand your preference when it comes to credits - I'd also love to be surprised by things like Quark showing up in Voyager. At the same time, I would hope you can see how something like that is qualitatively different from something like the twist at the end of this episode, and why keeping the surprise for a twist like this would be a much bigger deal than keeping the surprise of a Quark cameo.

Mark G

Remember the Ferengi ensign in TNGs "Future Imperfect"? Even though that future wasn't real, I wonder if the writers took inspiration from that to make Nog the first to join Starfleet. You guys were really quite that 2nd half. Not that I'm saying that's a negative. It was pretty heavy stuff.

Joe Concepts

With Nog there is another example of what I'd said before, this show has the best recurring characters in all of Star Trek. Especially because they appear so much more than TNG's. Without looking it up I know we see more of Rom and Nog and Garak than we saw of Guinan and Barclay. Even Ro was only in 8 episodes of TNG! This single-location show just works better for recurring characters.

Joe Concepts

Wow, this one really hit you guys. I've never really been someone who gets too emotional watching any TV, but when I watched TNG and DS9 I was in my teens and early 20s. Now they hit me so much harder as someone approaching 50. You move on from "That's sad" to "Oh boy, do I get that."

Joe Concepts

They did already reveal Odo's name was "nothing" from the sample container already, right? Didn't he tell Lwaxana that?

Sir, This is A Quark's.

I love the Odo I'tal continuity as well because as Bajorian Surnames precede the given name, he's Constable Odo, like Kira is Major Kira Nerys.

Bantha Fodder

Nana’s performance knocks this one down for me. Feels like she reverted to overreacting in this one like when the Kai died.

Sanchi

A bit for me too but I chock it up to her not really knowing how to convey being the Female Founder Pretending to be Kira then again she did a good job of making her seem 'off' when I re-watch it's very obvious now that she isn't Kira.

Target Audience

I don’t blame her, I think acting like you’re being slowly crushed is probably very difficult. Also, the crying aspect is still miles above Battle Lines imo

Wizardling

A wonderful episode, with some stellar acting by everyone, IMO.

Wizardling

I also found it odd that Kira would declare her love for Odo. It was too soon after Bareil's death, and as Odo said - it didn't fit with her past behaviour. But up till that point, I was sold on it really being Kira, thanks to Visitor's acting. She's really found her path for her character, now. Knows Kira inside and out.

James

Regarding the credits, I genuinely didn't read them at all, and therefore didn't notice recurring names showing up. That said, I wasn't the most active viewer, I paid attention to the story and narratives, but I didn't put any attention or focus into direction or camera work. I am appreciating this series far more watching with you guys than I have the previous times I've watched this and other series so I tend to pick things up more now. I think it's just something audiences are either trained to notice or ignore outright. I agree through on the fact that spoiler credits should be after their reveals to keep the surprises.

Shawn Indigo

Dear patron commenters. It may be better for A and J to not read statements like: "Best of the series or high-water mark for the series (I know it's just someone's subjective opinion). You may want to write comments like you have not seen anything else afterward the current episode. So it may be better to say, "Up to this point that scene was my favorite by far." or "At that point in the series it was my watershed moment for that type of situation." That would hint that there were even more badass versions in season 5 and 6 or something? I'm pretty sure A and J are okay with it, but it may be better for us all to live in that vacuum where we have no idea what is to come.

TC Green

I think the impact of the Odo and Kira scenes has lessoned for me with repeat viewings because of the twist. I can see why they hit harder the first time when you still think it is Kira.

Naglfarius

I cry every Time when it comes to the Scene where Sisko confronts Nog, and he confesses his reason. Since the beginning of DS9, this was one of the moments i waited eagerly to watching your Reactions. One of the best Scenes of Star Trek for me.

Naglfarius

I disagree. Just as they said in their Reaction. Patreons always say: "Oh there is so much better, just wait!" And than the Season ends, and low and behold: TA had a different taste. So just because People say that this was their Favourite Episode, or Scene of the Show, it will change not much. But would be really interested what TA thinks about the 2 Opinions.

Forbidden Donut

I know it may have been somewhat tongue-in-cheek when it was said, and it's going to feel directed at you guys while it really is not, but I can't help but wince when Josh referred to the 'capitalist hellscape' because capitalism is why this channel exists and why you guys get to live off of it (and that's great!). You guys both took the initiative, put yourselves out there, took the risk, put in the time and effort, and you produced something that has inspired many of us to voluntarily give you money on a regular basis to get more of what you're doing. That is capitalism at its best! People seem almost conditioned anymore to instinctively use capitalism as a pejorative or to dunk on it, and I think it's important to remind people that despite the obvious downsides, it's also pretty great in a lot of ways. For one thing, it allows for channels like Target Audience to exist, and many do, which is awesome! It has resulted in a society where even several people who aren't all that well off still live a lot better than most human beings had EVER lived throughout the vast majority of human history. By modern American standards, I am in the lower economic class, yet I live like a king compared to most humans in the history of the world. Oh, and no small thing: TV shows like Star Trek would not exist, either! The art is wonderful, but how they did it and why they did it was to make a living by trying to make something that people wanted to see! Its quality got us to stick around for the commercial breaks and to later buy it on home video (multiple times). That is also great! People love to point out what's wrong, and that's fair, there absolutely are many things that are wrong, but then again they often want to just throw out what is good in the name of dealing with what is bad, and that's the scary part. There is no utopia economic system! Unless or until technology makes scarcity a thing of the past, this will continue to be the best system (despite how it's been corrupted and perverted by big businesses and governments rigging things for themselves). We're not getting a 'Star Trek society' without basically unlimited energy, food, and other resources. With scarcity/life, there will always be people who get the short end of the stick no matter what system it is. The only way to maximize resources is to let people voluntarily work and trade with one another because nobody knows what we want and need better than ourselves. Central planners (big governments) can't do it better, and to try to do it that way means even bigger government than we already have, controlling even more aspects of our lives, our money, and our property, all while they get even further into bed with major businesses than they already are now. No, thank you! I feel like I almost need to apologize for the rant, but I'm middle aged now, and I've seen this become a more and more serious shift in our culture from even 20 years ago, and comments similar to yours about capitalism are no longer rare or uncommon, I see them all the time now, often from people directly benefiting from capitalism, and while I understand why it happens, it truly scares the hell out of me because I think it's going to lead to something much worse, which makes it a truly fucking dangerous cultural shift IMO. So, from that POV, no I won't apologize, and I wish more people who agree would say more. Anyway, Deep Space Nine is a great show LOL.

Pixels At Dawn

Pretty much how Odo approaches everything: "If you gave me the leeway to do things my way, there wouldn't be a problem." Based Rene.

Forbidden Donut

*Clears throat* Anyway.... Like I'm sure most do, I love the Odo and Nog stuff in this episode. I always felt so much empathy for both of them, and I love these developments in their characters just as much as I love how both actors performed their roles. RIP to René Auberjonois and to Aron Eisenberg. You know what may be my favorite realization, though? As much as stuff like this makes Deep Space Nine great, it's not even the only thing that makes it great. I fucking love this show.

Mark Chrisco

A fine episode. I only wish it has played a little later in the season. Kira needed some breathing room after "Life Support."

Numinous2019

I never got how Odo could be in love with an entirely different life form. We only think of Odo as a humanoid personality because the show can't afford to show his actual form more than the occasional time. His psychology would also be different. His 'demenour' is there to deal with the occupants of DS9. So we see an imitation of a relatable human personality. Okay, the writers need to give him further reason to remain apart from his own people, but I just don't buy him being in love.

jon bolton

I think you should change your name to 'The Crying Guys'😂. Great episode A, especially great performance by Nana Visitor, considering awful recent events she'd been through.

Lorne Pribbeno

One of the best episodes of the series. Rene and Arons speeches are exactly the kind of character development that make for great storytelling. As for you two, its great to see you both finding such commonality with both characters is the mark of great television, and I love this reaction.

Marko

Nana had a serious, traumatizing experience between the shooting of the last episode and this one. And the only person who knew of this was Rene. Perhaps there lies the reason she was very emotional doing these scenes. Combined with that anguish she was feeling is also the fact she hated being stuck in this prop while filming as it turns out it was uncomfortable. However I think all that only added to her performance here and I'm impressed she didn't really break down because of it.

Crewman #6

Keeping mainly to edits, it's been quite a jump from you guys being doubtful Odo could develop feelings for Kira. "Nothing." Someone so alien and solitary. The observer from the sidelines. Can Odo interpret Kira's friendship as anything more? "She said something you would never say." Ah, Odo. Ah, Rene. Aaron. The rest is in patron takes. heh. I'll also say for Rom. He started out as all in Ferengi, don't associate with hew-mons, you're not going to a school with a hew-mon woman. He's now supporting his son, even through he knows and maybe still feels it's not the 'Ferengi way'.

Fedora The Explorar

I actually do not understand how these two connect. Why wouldn't two different life forms love each other?

Fedora The Explorar

I honestly never understood this point. They benefit from Capitalism because they are living under it and are forced to make the living best they can and abide by the rules. Like they both said, they are both lucky and privileged to be in this position to have this channel that gives them income, but it does not invalidate them criticising capitalism. Surely people who live under a system are the most informed people when it comes to critiquing it. Plus I assure you that art and prosperity would still exist without capitalism and the big company control is a natural effect of it that's 100% intended. I am trying to be a bit vague to not get my comment deleted for talking about politics but yeah.

Fedora The Explorar

Well of course there will be excellent episodes that people would love for each season of DS9 to come, I see no point in trying to hide that.

Numinous2019

I think there's a typo in your comment and you meant that you DO understand how different life forms could love each other. Right? It's still a stretch. Odo could definitely be close to Kira, feeling they understand each other. He absolutely could feel affection and empathy for her. But love? Especially since the Great Link is his intended means of intimate relating. This is romantic love, not love for a pet, or nature. It's seeking a companion.

BN13

Yeah, I kind of wish they had stuck with how they portrayed Odo in season one with relationships and love being completely foreign to him. That makes a lot more sense for his race. However, we end up getting episodes like this and other great things as a result of the direction they took, so I'm ultimately fine with it.

Zerocooleo

To date I have seen everything Star Trek made since 1966. At times DS9 has that gritty noir feel especially during those Cardassian occupation flashbacks and court scenes. Many people didn't like that about DS9 but Heart of Stone is in my personal top 10 best episodes of Star Trek ever list across the entire I.P. The only thing that really matters is were you entertained? Did the episode blow you out of your chair? We were entertained and watching you entertain us and rant is why we are here, to watch you love your work and be entertained by it. Keep up the great work guys!

BN13

I wonder if either of you guys have ever had unrequited love for someone? I have four separate times, each for multiple year periods. I related a lot to this arc growing up. I WAS Odo. The way I interpreted the scenes where you both thought that Kira might have feelings for Odo, is those moments were actually written to further show Odo's unrequited love, not Kira's. By that, I mean that when you are in unrequited love, you get moments like that from the other person all the time where you know they mean things in a completely platonic way, but then again, you'd swear that there's something there. Those moments always give you hope beyond hope that one day things might change because you can see the potential, and those moments mean the world to you. Odo will cherish those flowers in his bucket forever, and think of her every time he sees them. In reality though, those moments really just mess with your head, because the other person never meant anything by them. And you just keep going on watching them live their life. If you go back and rewatch the show looking for the signs, you can tell when the writers first got the idea to start setting up that Odo had feelings for Kira. It was very late season 2. Every scene we got between them since then, was meant to subtly hint and build up where they were going here.

reactive1

This episode is one of the best examples of when I love the B story more than the A story. Kudos to them for not spoiling Salome Jens as a guest star in the opening credits.

Dr. Paul Stubbs

Not really about the episode itself, but I am getting tired of Trek shows describing the 20th century as "ancient". DS9 is set in 2371, which is 377 years ahead of 1994. 377 years before 2026, it was 1649. Was that a long time ago? Yes. Has a lot changed? Yes. Would I describe 1649 as "ancient"? Not at all. Shakespeare *died* in 1616 (410 years ago) and a version of his "Much Ado About Nothing" will be on Broadway this year, starring Hollywood actors Tom Hiddleston and Hayley Atwell. So I find it jarring for someone like Chief O'Brien to refer to "Louie, Louie" as an "ancient" song. I get that, in this case, he was probably fucking with Odo by calling it an "ancient Earth sea shanty", but Trek does this *all* the time. Like calling the Wild West the "Ancient West". It's so corny and distracting, it breaks my immersion whenever it comes up.

Loot Narsbaar

Like the famous meme: you are critical of society....yet you participate in it?

Loot Narsbaar

From what we watched so far the two best seasons are TNG 3, and DS9 3. I am here to tell you that DS9 did not peak in it's third season.

Loot Narsbaar

TBF, she's not playing Kira for most of the episode and the other shapeshifter may not be adept at impersonating humanoids as they seem to live in the link 99% of the time

Loot Narsbaar

Odo has only been "human" for 15(?) years or so. He was more or less born an adult and I think it's important to remember that.

Cranky Grandma

I wondered, watching this, if the “female” channeling is jealous of Kira, as a mother might be. Regarding Nog, the last episode led beautifully to this. He was. Trying too hard to be a good Ferengi, precisely because he was questioning Ferengi ways.

Loot Narsbaar

Did you know Michael Dorn plays Col. Worf in Star Trek 6?

Aramis Calcutt

About revealing guests in the credits. I don’t know why you still care about this. Clearly, the 1990s were a transitional period in which they SOMETIMES decided to keep surprises in this way and sometimes still stuck to traditional practice. So, the fact is, sometimes you’re going to be surprised and sometimes you aren’t. Why still make this a big effin deal? Just accept it.

Cranky Grandma

I get mad when people refer to the 1970s as “the old days”😄

Loot Narsbaar

The big difference is in the 90s we knew a lot about the episodes before they aired, and we weren't running a reaction channel on You Tube. I don't mind mild spoilers because it gets me hyped for whatever I want to see, but I also don't film myself watching tv for a lviing.

Loot Narsbaar

I, for one, can't wait to see what the future holds.

Phenomenon (Doo - Dooo - Dah - Doo - Doo)

When he was trapped in the turbolift with Lwaxana, he talked about hating parties, because everyone wanted him to "perform" for them, but he never mentioned what his name meant. That was new lore for this episode

Cranky Grandma

Well said. The grass is always greener, I guess, and every system has flaws because every system has flawed humans. But this one also has good stuff.

reactive1

I saw Rene Auberjonois in 1996 at the 30th Anniversary Star Trek convention in Huntsville, AL. I was surprised at how tall he was. He was talking to some Trek novel authors at a table. I didn’t get to talk to him, but I did talk to the authors.

BN13

I'm very curious to see what TA thinks of that one.

Ja Dav

Recall that two years ago Nog could barely read. Under normal circumstances his chances of getting into the Academy would be nil, but there are politics in his favor. Attitudes like Quark's aside, this type of thing is good for relations with the Ferengi. Non-Federation worlds like Ferenginar and Bajor get favored nation status in matters like this because it is politically and diplomatically beneficial. Sisko is now set to be the advocate for Nog that Picard was for Ro Laren and Sito Jaxa, but in this case right from the start. In TNG's The Chase it was mentioned that seventeen crew members on the Enterprise were from non-Federation worlds. Each of them likely needed a Picard or a Sisko type to sponsor them.

BN13

I think it was actually 300 years

Fritz

I just rewatched it, and for the first time, I notice how well the first scene and the last Nog scene bookend the story, connecting the plot lines. In the beginning it's Odo who is complaining that Kira made a decision that was actually his decision to make, and she promises to let him "say no" the next time. In the end, it's Rom stepping in when Quark is making a decision that is Rom's decision to make, allowing Nog to join Starfleet. Quark tells Rom "fine, you say no", but unlike Odo in the first scene, Rom actually doesn't just want to be the one to make the decision, he also makes a different decision than Quark and allows Nog to do it.

Laura Thornley

You think this is the best of the season? Not going to disagree with you, but... challenge accepted. We'll see if you eat those words or not! But for real, this is a great episode - Nog's journey from a petty thief, troublemaker and disrespectful person to this? So good. So damn good.

Laura Thornley

Haven't we all had unrequited love? I always assumed so. And I've learned to recognise it as such and live with it. As we all should, I think.

Ja Dav

Even knowing what is coming up, I can still see them finding this episode the best of the season, based on what they've said they are looking for in this show

Sony

Thank goodness Salome Jens wasn't in the opening credits because then we would've been tipped off to the Dominion being involved in this episode

Target Audience

When I refer to “capitalist hellscape” I am talking about my life experience as an individual before I was able to do this channel full time, not a big picture comparison of it vs other economic models of which I have no knowledge or experience. For some people capitalism is awesome. Like if you have rich parents for example.

Matchstick Jose

The irony is that I would guess 99.9% of the audience would not have recognized the name Salome Jens even if they had put her in the first act credits.

Deliximus

Bang on. We're in late game capitalism.

Fedora The Explorar

I think its a nature vs nurture thing. Had he grown up with his own people, the link is how he would be informed about love. Since he grew up around humanoids, this is his own perception of how love and romance works.

Ja Dav

On the subject of Odo's face, I always just chalked it up to being easier to imitate an existing actual face than to fabricate a face from scratch. His look emulates Dr. Mora, but you wouldn't want Odo to exactly imitate Dr, Mora...you'd need James Sloyan to play him then.

Ja Dav

Their "an episode about a nebula" comment is ironic considering the very next episode they'll get to.

John M.

I think this is your best discussion. Thanks for it.

Aaron Wells

The Federation is a *State*. A country, so to speak. Not merely some kind of diplomatic organization like the United Nations. It has a government, including a President, a Constitution, and a "Bill of Rights" so to speak...and a military, AKA Starfleet. The people of Vulcan, Earth, Betazed, Andoria, etc etc are all equal citizens of the United Federation of Planets, much as the people of Arizona, Oregon, and Virginia are all equal citizens of the USA. If you want to be a Federation member, there are a long list of requirements you have to meet. A lot of Sisko's job is to find a way to get Bajor into enough of a shape to have a chance at gaining membership.

Target Audience

People still aren’t convinced we even like TNG, let alone DS9 💀

Sony

True

Aaron Wells

You guys did it again. Another episode I never gave a damn about, now I get it. I've missed a lot of trees, carefully analyzing forests.

John M.

Part of why it's great to have community: the Nog stuff never did anything for me, mostly because I like my Dad fine. :) Never even occurred to me that was a dramatic B-story. I had filed it away as about as heavy as the self-sealing stem bolt one.

John M.

"SALOME JENS as FEMALE CHANGELING/FAKE KIRA"

Aaron Wells

I don't even have that excuse. My father is pugilize on sight.

Loot Narsbaar

I was always convinced it would turn around at The Search. That's when DS9 becomes DS9.

Dark Kronis

personally The way I interpreted the scene with Sisko confronts nog is he already planned to help nog get into academy, and this was one final test to understand why nog wanted this, i interpret the i will send the letter first thing as being he already written it

GamingHour2018

I never got to talk to or even meet René Auberjonois, but i did get to talk to Aron Eisenberg a few years back he was cool dude there was so many questions i wanted to ask but i didnt wanna be THAT fan so we just chatted for a bit.

sword bard

Nog! Nog! Nog! Nog! REJOICE, FOR THE TIME OF THE NOGGENING IS UPON US! The golden age begins!

sword bard

Although the episode as written, acted, and directed is pure DS9, I feel like the cave plot in itself is soooo TOS. I would love to see a TOS version of it. It's a cave episode, someone is encased in a cheesy-looking crystal deathtrap that grows when you try to remove it, the atmosphere means they can't communicate to get help...if you just told me that on its own and asked me to guess what series it was from, TOS all the way.

Phluke Skywalker

Dang, this got me. Been loving and needing your Star Trek channel. Im all in and only did Patreon for you guys. 2 plus years member so far for me! 🥰 It's been amazing, heartfelt, fun, hilarious, all the things and more you entertain and give to us all. This has been something for me personal too. Especially the way you two talked about your personal lifes too and how this episode has affected and meant to you as well. I have to say esp with the talk too not giving up and people not having opportunity etc to do and be what they want in life, missed things, not being able to do things because of life circumstances or at least incredibly difficult things. Ive been dealing horribly with major depression, CPTSD, loss etc, my whole life, debilitating. Daily. So this has been a personal thing too and I completely understand and empathize with it. It's horrible to deal. But, you two guys, my god are so Fracking awesome! I want to say at least the biggest Thank You two for what youre doing, sharing, and experiencing this whole Star Trek "trek", I cant express how it feels and what you mean, to me and so many others. You get it, all. And you two sharing your own feelings and personal things just makes it all feel like Im not alone :) Your Star Trek Channel has been and will continue to help, share, and make all of us feel that we have something. Thank you. This episode with you two has been tearfully amazing. Keeps the mindset for me that I cant give up. And will do what I can and more even with horrible daily and life things. Dang, I love you guys! 🤓🥹. My god, The has been an incredible ep!🖖 You two mean so much to me and all of us!

M Palmiere

i can't believe that among all the amazing episodes I remember as my favorites, I forgot this one, And Nog's speech is easily of of my favorite moments in Sci-fFi.

rear adm. crackbiscuit

I was really looking forward to this one, wall to wall character scenes, great writing for great actors, the works. I actually had to resync to double-check when I noticed Salome Jens wasn’t listed. OMG they’re gonna flip out! I realized then that the whole Kira bit would fall apart if you knew there was a changeling and was anticipating the reveal. The whole watch along I was anticipating. Then it came and I thought, they didn’t notice the lack of credit. Surely it’ll come up in the takes… and it didn’t. Fade to black. Fade back in. There it is, like the rest of the reaction, even more than I hoped for.

Miranda

Count me as another one who is curious as to how they will react to that one.

psu01414

I was lucky enough to see Rene several times at conventions and meet him three times. He was an amazing person and super nice with the fans. He's been one of my favorite actors since he starred in the TV series Benson (with Ethan Phillips who is Neelix). At one of the conventions, someone asked about his experience with the makeup for Odo. Rene said the Odo "mask" was used only once because to remove it he had to peel it off his face. He hung up the masks in his dressing room so he knew exactly how many times he played Odo. He also said that during the run of the show for some reason they changed the glue that was used to apply the mask and the first time he peeled the mask off after using the new glue, it took some of his skin with it. Also, he was the voice of Chef Louis in The Little Mermaid so he got asked, usually by children to sing the Les Poissons song all the time. I feel honored and extremely lucky to have seen him perform the song at two different conventions.

Miranda

I knew you two would love this one! That scene between Sisko and Nog is truly great. Aron Eisenberg's performance there is tremendous. I know he credited Avery Brooks for getting that performance out of him. He was very proud of his work here, and I know he would have loved to hear how much you two liked it. This episode is probably a B+ or A- for me. (Remember, I'm grading relative to the entirety of the series.) The A plot is great for Odo, but especially on rewatch it loses a lot of power because we all know it isn't Kira. Odo's monologue about his name is really good though. And I like that he figures out the ruse. I just feel it is a lot of wasted time watching Odo try to figure out the problem.

Ken R

I think I would put "The Search" above this with the great cliffhanger of Odo being welcomed home. "Civil Defense" and "Past Tense" as well, as all have full stories. This was a monologue mostly. To answer Josh's question, this is my first time watching any of these shows that came beyond TOS and TAS.

Miranda

I get that you all don't want spoilers in the credits, but you need to accept that this was a SAG requirement, and actors don't get paid as much if they appear in the end credits. I am pro actors getting fairly paid for their work. I cannot go back and retroactively change SAG rules. Therefore this doesn't bother me. In this case, Salome Jens herself requested that her name not appear up front because of how big a spoiler it was. I have to assume that she worked something out between her agent and the producers to make sure she wasn't taking a pay hit. Not every actor is that attentive. I remember how we used to love parsing the credits of LOST for the guest star names, hoping we could figure out big plot twist in advance. That was due to the massive amount of recurring guest stars the show had. Of course, this was futile because LOST's biggest plot twists would happen with the main cast. Still, we tried.

Dead Hedge

It’s jarring for sure, but I think, because the franchise does it so often, you just have to take it as the 24th century version of the word “ancient” carrying a different meaning than how we use it today. For us, ancient doesn’t actually refer to a length or span of time, but rather to a specific historical period. Everything pre-fall-of-Rome is considered the Ancient world. In the year 500, the term “ancient” would’ve referred to a time only a couple of hundred years prior. Given all this, my head cannon is that in the trek universe, ancient is now used to describe the historical period before the advent of warp technology. If the writers had been better history buffs, they’d have come up with their own term, I’m sure, but alas, we’re stuck with “ancient” now having a completely new meaning.

Actuarial Lurker

The Federation is basically the EU and Nato combined - joint defense pact, low tariffs, you cam live and travel on the different planets without a "VISA", you get reciprocal social services like health care etc etc To join the EU you have to have a stable government. economy, civil rights etc. Germany, France, Italy, Ireland etc all have their own government but they still vote for an EU government So the only real difference is that you have to be warp capable and have a planet wide single government to join the Federation. IRL you wouldn't allow a country with a tribe of hunters and no technology to join the EU...so in concept its similar

Aramis Calcutt

Actually, they wouldn’t make exceptions like that, so if there was an income hit involved, she would hve to suck it up.

Aaron Wells

The EU though, is not a State. It's fundamentally a trading bloc made up of member states. It behaves like a state in certain ways, but not to the degree the Federation does. EU members all retain their individual sovereignty. In the case of the Federation, The governing body is the Federation Council and President. Member worlds send representatives. NATO is simply a military alliance. It has no authority over individual military forces who've signed up. Starfleet on the other hand, is entirely controlled at the federal level by the Federation. Not the individual worlds.

sword bard

I am always so happy for Armin Shimerman succeeding at turning the Ferengi into something great after their wretched beginnings in the franchise. That was one of his reasons for wanting to play Quark and he achieved it 100%, and all the actors for the Quark family took that to the stratosphere with him.

sword bard

I'd say he is ... fluid.

Jon Miller

Nog's speech to Sisko trying to persuade him is one of the greatest and most iconic scenes in all of Star Trek.

Sykonee

Ira, being the little impish character he be, must have watched the Wesley Crusher story arc of 'Chosen Prodigy Destined For Starfleet' (nevermind his resolution), and set out to subvert that in the most extreme way possible. "Say, why don't we have the *least* qualified character - one who could barely read when we meet them - go to Starfleet Academy?"

L J

I am not as familiar with the DS9 episodes as I am with the other Trek series and I've been wondering when the story of Nog wanting to join Starfleet happened... so it was fun to realize it was this episode! It really is one of my favorite DS9 moments. Very believable and compelling. And I have to stick up for Sisko here... I don't blame him one bit for being skeptical or reluctant to support Nog. I don't think Nog joining Starfleet was really on anyone's radar and based on the character, it does seem like something of a contradiction in terms. I think this story goes to show how much a person's motivation can totally change them. I think Nog was happy to be a bit of a goofy troublemaker until his "becoming an adult" moment was approaching and made him really give some serious thought to the future and what he wanted for his life. This was a great moment for showing how one's perspective changes as they progress through life. I have mixed feelings about the Kira/Odo story. On the one hand, I love it. It's a fantastic character moment for Odo. I don't know if he'd even really admitted to himself that he had feelings for Kira prior to this moment... I think he knew it, but he couldn't bring himself to actually face it. So for him to be forced to face it head on and to speak it out loud here was just huge. That said... the whole story and set of circumstances that lead to him confessing his feelings is a bit hit and miss for me. In a way it does drag on, and after the reveal it seems a bit pointless that we spent the whole episode trapped in this cave and it was just an illusion so the changeling could force Odo to admit he had feelings for Kira. Just a little silly. And there was something about the acting or the delivery of some of the lines that just doesn't work for me. It pulls me out of the moment at different points throughout. Don't get me wrong - I think I would rate this as one of my top episodes of DS9. But I do have a hard time with that particular part of the story. But watching the guys react to this one was a lot of fun!

captveg

One of the greatest decisions this show made was to have the son of the lead Starfleet officer not want to join Starfleet while his unruly, non-Federation friend does.

Target Audience

Awesome that you’re watching this all for the first time with us 🔥

Paul

Nog's choice to pursue a Starfleet career was as surprising to me as Kira being a Changeling imposter. But I love both storylines. Nana Visitor acts very, very subtly different, which may be why Alex picked up on something being off. I remember feeling that way too though I didn't believe she wasn't Kira, not sure what I believed at the time. Also, side note, without delving in Capitalism vs Socialism or anything else, economic systems are all derived one way or another due to limited resources, scarcity. I'm extremely excited for the future of humanity because I don't think such systems will be needed, at least not for the basics of living, for much longer. When building homes, harvesting trees, growing food, can all be fully automated even down to the robots used to maintain the machines doing the work, well, the only bottleneck there is energy, which would rapidly become a non-issue through solar panels and perhaps thorium reactors for baseload power. At that point, resources would effectively become limitless. Perhaps I am too optimistic, but with the advent of AGI around the corner, I foresee a post-scarcity world emerging far more rapidly than most do. Or that super intelligence goes full Terminator instead... I'll place my eggs in the first basket as one way or another, it's inevitable. In the meanwhile, I don't work much because live a minimalist lifestyle. Good food, warm little home, that's all I need to be happy. And Star Trek reactions (obviously).

Target Audience

This means a lot. More than I can say. Thank you for the support and for sharing that with us. I’m sorry you’re carrying all of that, but if we’ve been able to help in any way, that makes me incredibly grateful. 🖖

Target Audience

John, “because I like my Dad fine :)” made me bust out laughing, thank you 🤣

DataL0re

I've watched star trek over and over my entire life starting with TNG DS9 Voyager , I can repeat lines , I liked this episode mainly for Nog

Loot Narsbaar

I think it's wonderful you both liked this one so much, if this episode is an S in my opinion we've got 50+ S'es to go before reach the end of DS9

Loot Narsbaar

The moment where Odo admits his feelings and then falls to the ground like he's gonna hurl is incredible. It's a prime example of how an actor can elevate good material to great.

Loot Narsbaar

I've understood the Federation as Space America with each planet being a state, the Federation Counsel being the Senate (and there being no House), with a President. (The last President we saw was Red Foreman). That's why you have "Federation Citizens" and all species wearing the same uniform. It would have been nice if there was a reference to Nog applying for citizenship.

Loot Narsbaar

Salome Jens as "The Bullshit Major Kira"

Meanwhile, in Space....

Yeah, this is an important point. One of the things that distinguishes Odo from other Changelings is that he's developing his own identity as a "solid," not replicating someone else's. I think it's one of the more subtle character nuances in Trek -- that he demonstrates how much harder and more rewarding it is to be your own person instead of letting your culture or imitation define yourself.

Aaron Wells

Well, yeah that would have been kind of cool. To be fair though, you do not need to be a US citizen to attend the military academies in the US. You need to be a citizen to accept a commission after you graduate, though. There are always international students at the academies.

Todd

S-tier reaction.

sword bard

I believe that counts as a spoiler - the first thing you mention hasn't happened yet.

Sunny

Totally agree on episode quality but Miranda Priestly would like a word about that shirt

Greg Quinn

The part where a male crew member was going to give birth?!?!? Woke!!!! Lol

captveg

Yes it did. Jake tells his Dad he doesn't want to join Starfleet in S2 E16, "Shadowplay".

Spartan-463

damn I completely forgot about this episode (thought the nog scenes were much later), and the synopsis online made it sound like a filler. So glad to be rewatching the series again here

captveg

Incorrect.

Ryan K

I love hearing the language of wrestling being applied to Trek, i've done it all my life as shared interests, fun to hear other people saying "I got worked" or "face/heel turn", etc etc.

Scarpad’s Domain

A good use of the b plot to relieve the heaviness of the A

Greg Quinn

The first patron take was spot on the only thing I'd say is Sisko's assignment of inventory was a bit more the busy work. It was also to make sure Nog didn't steal a bunch of shit. Lol But yeah the dad mode is a good point that I missed.

Scarpad’s Domain

If their sobbing here I think there is a S4 episode that will break them

shanetown

That's because you occasionally dislike and episode you're SUPPOSED to like... *cough*PastTense*cough*

Aaron Wells

I agree that a lot of human labor is going to wind up being replaced. Which is fine, if the robots that replace that labor start paying the taxes and the paycheck of the guy who's now sitting with nothing. I'd love to optimistically believe that the wealth will be spread around... But I think what's going to happen is the upper crust is going to control all this automation, and everyone else is going to get exactly the bare minimum possible without them rising up and burning everything to the ground. Might have to go through a few cycles of burning everything to the ground before the distribution gets a little less lopsided. Or maybe the AI will just take over and start building more and more power plants for more and more data centers and a constant loop of expansion until the temperature of the planet gets high enough to cause an ecological crash and we all just die out. I don't think the AI would care either way. Or even notice.

Aaron Wells

@ken You are lucky. Enjoy this. You only get to do this for the first time once.

Miranda

I mean that in the end credits, she is credited as "Special Guest Star" rather than just "Guest Star" as she had been previously. This type of credit gives you a bump in pay.

Miranda

And actually, I am not sure that she made the request, but I know she consented to it. Probably in exchange for that credit as "Special Guest Star"

Numinous2019

Odo isn't a person though. His true form is that glimpse we got of The Great Link. I honestly believe that viewers get 'conditioned' to think of Odo as another humanoid, just with morphing abilities. It's the opposite way around. He's a fluid creature who uses a humanoid form out of practical necessity.

Ken R

Aaron, DS9 is usually decent, and I can see how a lot of it is a trial run for BSG with them even taking bits and using them again in BSG episodes, only BSG would do them without trying to be kid-friendly.

Paul

I'm an optimist and I think reality reflects that. Most advancements made in technology are available to the average joe, even for free in some cases, such as with AI (to a limited extent but still). It's less about spreading wealth around and more about it overflowing from even the biggest goblet. I'm sure there will still be a hierarchy of a sort in that multi-decade or century organic "transition", but food, shelter, clothing, the basics of life will become more and more automatic. Not to the level of a food replicator in Star Trek, but not that far off.

John M.

Constant source of friction with my wife, who is estranged from her family entirely. She can't bear Christmas at my parents' house, which is basically the Nexus. :D

MartyMc

Dude, TVs in the 90s were small, I watched most of this on a 13th inch or 20 inch screen. Ignoring opening credits was easy.

Cranky Grandma

Maybe. I think it’s really here in season 8

Cranky Grandma

IA Nana did put in subtle differences. I thought Kira’s tears at being trapped were un-Kira-like, at least at that point. She played the changlings view of Kira- a good duplicate slightly changed to a damsel in distress, just a little tweak, to manipulate Odo. Or perhaps she really doesn’t get Kira, or solids. She imitates very well, but without fully understanding. Perhaps skewed by her own ideology. Edit- autocorrect changed “put in” to Putin. I guess it was keeping track of the political-economic bits of the thread😄

Cranky Grandma

Whoops, BN13, you must have posted as I was editing. I realized there were a ton of replies talking about Odo being young and not expected back to the founders for years (and I stand corrected on the time). When I saw how many people already said that, I deleted that part of my reply. You were too fast for me!🙂

International Man of Leisure

But that part where Sisko hears about it and goes into Dad mode and gets genuinely excited about it. COOL!!!

Kade Corwyn

Around this time is when I realized Odo is probably my favourite character in the show, with Garak just behind. His character arc is so well done and only gets better from here.

Forbidden Donut

One of the cool things about this show is I think I may have a four-way tie for favorite character between Odo, Quark, Kira, and Garak. This show is just stacked with good characters.

Forbidden Donut

I keep going back and forth on whether Season 3 or Season 4 is when it peaks. I still slightly lean towards Season 4, but damn Season 3 is very good.

Forbidden Donut

Definitely. Rene eleveates Odo with his performance again and again.

Forbidden Donut

@Target Audience. Understood. That's why I tried to say early in my post that it wasn't really directed at you so much as it was just the latest of many times that I've heard people throw in the word 'capitalism' only when they're saying something negative, and it's happened enough times that I'm starting to think more and more people basically only see it as a bad thing. That worries me because I truly believe all current alternatives are worse, perhaps much worse, and so it really troubles me to see society slipping away from it as I've gotten older. I'm operating with the definition of capitalism being 'free, voluntary, consensual exchanges between individuals, without coercion from governments or other entities'. In other words, "I'll agree to do this, if you'll agree to do that." If they both agree, the deal happens, and the idea is that each side is trying to walk away from it feeling like they improved their situation because they value what they got more than what they gave up. Your Patreon channel / your patrons more or less demonstrate this, basically. Obviously IRL there's a lot of complications such as bad people, government favoritism, big business favoritism, rule breakers, etc. that muddies the waters tremendously, and I join in criticizing all of those things. I view that all as corruption. There's a lot more that could be said, but that's the essence of it, and I also support it because it pairs with my own sense of morality, that being that every individual has the right to their own body, property, money, and labor, paired with the concept that it's wrong to use force, fraud, or coercion against others. Basically don't hurt people, don't take their stuff, don't do to others what you wouldn't want done to yourself, and otherwise live and let live. So, for me, it has nothing to do with rich parents or anything like that when I support it.

International Man of Leisure

I tell them "DS9 has arrived" every season. It's one of the games I like to play. (DS9 S3 and forward is stellar.)

Kade Corwyn

Agreed. The one thing that sets DS9 apart from other series is how character-driven the stories are. Even if most of the show is episodic, the characters grow and develop over time, and it's great seeing the relationships between the various characters blossom.

clone1138

As a pro wrestling fan, I love it as well. Just waiting to see their reaction to some major heel turns later in the show.

clone1138

Nog is one of the best characters in a show already filled with amazing characters.

clone1138

I already know what one you’re thinking of. It breaks every man.

Loot Narsbaar

Love it or hate it 90s Trek was a family show so it’s always going to be somewhat kid friendly

Loot Narsbaar

Thanks for clearing that up, now makes sense why Nog isn’t becoming a citizen at this moment

Loot Narsbaar

For years I’ve held the opinion this show shifts from “solid” to “amazing” seemingly overnight when we reach The Search. It’s almost a completely different new and improved show. One of my favorite aspects of this rewatch is that we’re pin-pointing why.

JordanK1991

I guess I was one of the lucky ones. We had one of those massive 36x36-inch cubical TVs. The ones that weighed close to 300 pounds. Haha

JordanK1991

I'm glad you guys are enjoying season 3 so much (save for Past Tense I & II). Still hyped about the fact that we're only just getting started.

StonyD

"This show is not good for people with issues like us..." LMFAO!!!

Ca$hWednesday

As much as you guys glaze Ron Moore (for good reason don't get me wrong), Ira Behr deserves the most glazing. He was the brainchild for most of what this show becomes from S3 onward. Ira was the dude who is made the Ferengi actually interesting and pushed for a more character-driven show. That being said, Ira, Ron and the rest of the DS9 writing staff from this season onward might be one of the best writing rooms in all of TV.

Matchstick Jose

I do not like this glaze word the youths have invented. Send it back.

Ca$hWednesday

Okay Grandpa. Old man yells at the nebula.

Keith Capirano

Great reaction. This is why star trek is so great. Episodes that impact some fans emotionally on a human level. Keep up the good work.

J-Ro

Maybe it's just that DS9 from season 3 onwards "arrives" consistently. The creatives were present and cooking for five years.

Loot Narsbaar

I like “shoutout(s)”, with over the top praise being called a “tongue bath” in the more extreme situations

Loot Narsbaar

Yeah it’s wild that a 40” tv is small now. I watched DS9 on a 19” tv during first run.

Loot Narsbaar

Rule of thumb: When “woke” is handled with grace it’s no longer woke (pejorative sense)

Loot Narsbaar

Season 8 looked good from what I saw

Thomas B

You guys are great and i think your hearts are at the right place. All the best for you.

MJBull

People having to work jobs they do not necessarily enjoy is just "the world", capitalist or otherwise. There are necessary jobs that have to get done which are not terribly enjoyable. Under a free market system, there is some choice over whether you have to work those kinds of jobs or whether you can try something else. In other systems, there might not be the option to try another line of work. The fact that you can make money doing these reactions on YouTube is because of "capitalism".

Dipper

Hey Josh, can I make a suggestion if it's not too much trouble? It would be super useful to know in the description the timestamps for what points in the episode you put visual syncs in play. That way if you're, oh, I don't know... the kind of obsessive-compulsive mentally ill person who wants to rewatch your reaction to the conversation between Nog and Sisko repeatedly, you can easily find the nearest spot to slip in. ;)

Brian Salas

Nobody does daddy issues like star trek. This episode means the world to me for personal reasons and I'm so glad y'all enjoyed.

Justus Dorado

I told you that you will both be leaving a piece of your heart on this space station, because we all do. So it's great to see that these characters are already in your hearts by season three. Thank you for what you are doing for Star Trek. 🖖

Imogen S

If I even think of that episode I start to go, I imagine we'll all be washing our faces with tears when we get there.

Fire and Bloodwine

Some of my favorites haven't even been introduced yet

Ben D

Starting at around the 34 minute mark and wrapping up around 38.

Dag the Ger of the Mind

You guys, whatever your names are, commented several times on interactions between Kira and Odo wondering about a odd phrase or look. When you rewatch those knowing his feelings, it really adds a level of emotion. I believe his feelings for her were planned from early on.

Dag the Ger of the Mind

I want to see the name thing become a running gag. At least that guy didn't call you unknown samples

Dipper

Thank you for the attempt, Ben, but yes, I know where in the episode the conversation is. :) What we're talking about is that because the timer is more of a guideline than a solid marker, syncing up my copy of the episode to their reaction in that area is very tricky. My only choices right now are to watch the whole thing from the beginning to get to that point, or spend about 5-10 minutes struggling with a lot of pausing and rewinding to get everything in place. What Josh and Alex can do for me in that case, basically what I'm requesting, is to point out that they have a sync spot at... well, I don't know where it's at, because Patreon skips at 10 second intervals and their sync spots tend to be only 5 seconds long, which means I can't find one if it's there. But by way of example, let's say I wanted to skip the cold open and only watch the reaction from after the opening credits. It would help if they pointed out that a skip spot exists at the 7m12s mark in THEIR video. That way I can jump right to that spot, sync up the images with ease, and proceed from there.

Jim

It's a good episode. Odo was the first and he wasn't expected back so soon. The wormhole made him appear sooner.

Jim

We couldn't pause things back then. When the credits came on you ran to get a drink or pee.

Matt Does Stuff

DS9 was one of those shows ahead of its time. I grew up on TNG and didn't appreciate DS9 until I was much older. Episodes like this were lost on me as a kid but MAN do they hit now

Prof Moff

DS9 sex scoreboard catch up version No scores that I saw (remember I am only catching up with the short versions) The sex score board Quark 5 Jadzia 3 Chief 1 Keiko 1 Odo 1 Kira 1 Bashir 1 Jake 1

uberelder

fuck man... i just learned about Aron Eisenberg's death from you guys talking about it. didn't expect it to hit me so hard.