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UNCUT - State of Flux (VOY S1E11) | Star Trek Journey 356 (Patreon)

Published:
2026-03-17 02:10:42
Edited:
2026-03-19 13:48:52
Imported:
2026-09
Tags:
stj

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Thicketdweller🦊

All right, midnight movies with the Target Audience well, it’s close enough anyway

tyranusfan

In TOS, by the time they got to season 2, stun was green, kill was blue or red. In early TNG, the orange for stun, red for kill was more obvious. Later on, the colors kinda merged. I don't know if they forgot or just chose to stop making the distinction.

reactive1

Alright! Let’s go!!!

Marko

Ok Seska is not fake like the Chief was in Whispers, but she is a fake Bjoran, so there is a twist in that regard.

Actuarial Lurker

UGH- Temu Klingons are back... and since Start Trek VI had such a great obvious plot lets just slightly rewrite it and make a Voyager episode that has TWO suspects rather than one, but where one of them is still obvious....D from me

Ryan

“Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!” More juicy conflict for the Voyager crew. I like how Alex called the perpetrator instantly.

Wizardling

I remember this the first time, and I kept expecting to have the obvious answer be the wrong one. But nope, it _was_ Seska all along. Nice fake out, writers! I also enjoyed Chakotay's mounting doubts and betrayal. Robert Beltran's acting is excellent in this episode.

Actuarial Lurker

Martha Hackett auditioned for the Jadzia Dax role on DS9 losing out to Terry Farrell

Steven Linden

Man, you've got to stop posting these just when I'm about to get ready for bed. It's wreaking havoc on my sleep schedule.

Lt Dan I Scream

Damn I keep watching these when they drop and then have to wait forever for the next :(

Sir, This is A Quark's.

They watched DS9 S3 E20 & 21 tonight... you'll be fine. I expect a Cinematic trailer by 9am. Lol (joking, you fellas get some sleep.)

Matchstick Jose

Damn. You are forcing me to watch these with my late evening coffee instead of my early morning coffee. Just kidding. I probably won’t be able to watch this until tomorrow with my late afternoon coffee. (Slight chance I may have a small caffeine problem.)

Prof Moff

Voyager Well we are going to follow our playbook. We assume YES. That mean Seska and Chakotay did earlier DURING the series but we missed it. So ………… I got nothing to be crude about those two banging sorry. They seem the most boring dogging in all of trek. Did either of them actually "finish"? Not sure. I know if I wabammed either of them we would all would know there would be some moaning so the security cams would KNOW about it. The moaning would have been loud enough by either of them to be heard but 1st officer hose lame dicking did not do anything. But lame Fin still “counts” so yeah SEX SCORE BOARD Paris – 2 Neelix - 1 Kes – 1 Chakotay 1+1 new extras Seska 1 +1 new This one is debatable again. We are making this call. If you disagree (or agree with support) please reply. We do not know your opinion unless you reply. Just do NOT spoil in any way. Keep you comments to what we are currently at now if you know more save it. We just adjusted we can adjust any time for any series

TalynOne

If only they had a investigator that can do mind melds with permission to determine if someone is telling the truth. If I were Carey I'd simply volunteer for a mind meld. Can't tell if Tuvok or the writers are morons, maybe both. Even without the meld it was super obvious, and had a cop out real evidence off screen with the doctor. A moron's version of Star Trek 6. D-.

Bantha Fodder

Now you get to go back and watch all the seska episodes through cardassian eyes.

startrekiborg

True, the Kazons look a bit stupid, but at least they're not a Ferengi with a butt on the back of their head.

Summer

Great episode I have mentioned before I started Voyager in season two and saw several episodes so when I went back to season one there were things I knew, but sometimes for me that is a good thing and can help me appreciate the older ones more

River Acheron

This is a top tier episode. An easy S. I do agree with you guys, that episodes like this tend to loose a little something upon rewatch unless you're showing it to someone and reliving it vicariously through them. Watching it with you guys here definitely brought back some of the magic. I mean, that's the nature of anything that's either a mystery or a twist or both....the acceptance that you can't watch it again for the first time. However, that's why I believe YouTube and Patreon reactions and even "lets plays" are so popular because through vicarious viewing, a part of that First Time feeling comes back. Edit: I can't STAND the Kazon. You're not alone. I actually can't think one thing I like about them as villains or characters in general.

River Acheron

Not that they would know this at the time, before she was revealed as a Cardassian, but I would imagine that Seska would be resistant to Mind Melds. She is a spy, so I would assume she is Obsidian Order. I would have to think that they train their spies to be immune to Mind Melds, if that's possible. Just my head-canon.

TalynOne

The fact that she might be immune or resistant is evidence in itself, because she's supposed to be Bajoran. Also Carey is human, you can eliminate him as suspect easily, leaving only one suspect left.

River Acheron

As Chakotay says in this episode, her being a Cardassian spy wasn't evidence enough to label her as guilty. Yeah, I do see your point about Carey and the process of elimination. I'm the kind of viewer though that would say, "then there would be no episode." lol. If we go through every episode of most series, not just Star Trek, or even movies, there's almost always a real life easier way out of the problem. Look at all the movies where the main character is being blackmailed and made to do something. (yeah, I watch and read a lot of fucked up horror and thrillers) You know how many times I said, "um, he or she could just put a secret recording device on themselves, talk to the blackmailer, get him to say something admitting what he's doing and boom...end of movie." I head-canon it though, with one simple thing; "this character didn't think about it at the time." I say that to myself in episodes like this as well. Unrealistic, sure, but I'll suspend disbelief for the sake of the story.

James

Permission to rename that the Band Board? No? I'll let myself out.

Summer

Interesting what one thinks about their 30th watch, what if Janeway followed Neelix’s advice and they ignored the distress call….

TalynOne

Agree to disagree, that type of thinking can excuse any level of lazy, inconsistent or illogical writing. If Voyager wants to portray their Vulcan as absent minded and ineffective that's fine, but I'm going criticize them for doing so.

THE Fans

Oh wow. I just realized... Something i took for granted, people in Star Trek sitting with Data Padds... it became our reality. Trek has been doing that for decades before us. Mark that down as one more thing predicted in Trek. And I'm not referring to the padds themselves. People have noted long ago "hey, we have those." I'm referring to ourselves sitting and looking at them in public places instead of socializing.

THE Fans

I just realized... the best twist would have been that BOTH Seska and Carrey were traitors, working together and covering for each other. THAT would have been an awesome and threatening ending, seeing them both beamed off the ship.

River Acheron

No I *do* see your point and in fact, on an intellectual level I agree with you. Its a fun, little inconsistency that's neat to pick apart after watching. I am just not the kind of viewer who cares much. I care about my entertainment and enjoyment above all else. The only thing I disagree with, is calling the writer a moron. It was an oversight. But then again, how many times did TNG forget they have an empath on the ship? But I don't think that matters either. You're TOTALLY valid btw if it ruined the eppie for you. It always depends on why one watches something and what kind of viewer they are. It would, for me, been much worse if they said something like "Tuvok's Mind Meld isn't working today for such-and-such reason." because that kind of coincidental stuff takes me out of my immersion in the sense I can begin to see the 4th Wall when things are handwaved away like that. I hate coincidental happenstance, like when the car won't start at the exact moment the killer is on the victim's ass.

Worf and Riker Ride Again

I'd love them to have had Josh's idea in it's own episode - Seska finds out she's a Cardassian, but has seemingly had her memory erased. It could have focussed on Chakotay and Seska, their relationship and the trauma of knowing her memories are a lie. Then this episode at the end or late in the season, big twist! She knew the whole time

StonyD

Okay! I actually liked this one. I didn't care whether Seska was guilty, but how they got there with the story. Nothing special, but all the characters seemed to gel with what the plot needed. However, I have to agree with Seska that Janeway's decision to strand them out there in the pilot has never sat right with me due to her Starfleet duties. But that's an entirely different debate. So, that's one episode of VOY I've liked so far. Mark it on the board!

StonyD

It's not a story-killer for me, but it did occur to me. If nothing else, the show should have at least addressed it on some level ("I have melded with both parties, and cannot sense guilt in either") with Tuvok following up later that Cardassians (like others and the Obsidian Order especially) can learn to "compartmentalize" their memories/thoughts as a way around such a known interrogative method the Vulcans and Betazoids possess. Technobabble + Lore = Simple one-line handwave. To not at least attempt it opens the question as to whether the writer nerfing Tuvok on purpose or accidentally.

Summer

I will also continue to say, the array likely would have failed if they tried it, I really think Tuvok’s line in the premier should have been “there is a 45% chance I can make it work with a 82% chance of failure and 34% chance of catastrophic failure.” But they wanted it to be an act of mercy from Janeway not a no other choice

Clyde Frog

I like to refer to the Kazon as the garbage heads. That's what they look like to me lol. Great Value Klingons with garbage for hair. Aside from that the episode is great. Martha Hackett does such a fantastic job.

JCtechwizard

Ronald D. Moore: Ronald Dowl Moore

Zenlike Creature

We need something that looks like an alien root vegetable, let's use some ginger and paint it. No-one will notice ;) The Kazon always reminded me of budget Klingons, too. Another enjoyable episode from this first season. As I've said before, it's been a while since I've watched Voyager and I'm impressed how strongly this starts off, and with your enthusiasm and thoughts I'm appreciating it more than I did. Long may this last.

Greg Arledge

Mind melds are pretty dangerous based on the lore and not to be done lightly. This line of thinking would lead a writer to never use Vulcans in the cast. Or if you do never have who dunnit mysteries.

Glenn Zigli

Ok. That made me laugh out loud. “Great Value Klingons”

Philbot

I like the Kazon hair! The Klingons got very hair metally? In TMP they were fro ier? Wolverine hair? Then they were just like bro! 💇🏻‍♀️

River Acheron

That's what I mean, Greg. Nicely put. Look, I adore continuity but I will take a good story over strict adherence to canon any day. This may be a hot take, but I think it was a stupid ability in the first place. If it was never used again or mentioned, I would be fine with that. I understand why some viewers would want an in-universe explanation why a Vulcan cannot use it randomly but I completely forgot how dangerous they could be, so that alone explains it. THAT kind of in-universe explanation (maybe one line) would have been fine and not as hand-wavy. But it's not necessary either. In any case, it doesn't affect my S for this episode. Its GOATed af

Matchstick Jose

I don't know how to describe Josh's impression of Janeway at 1:13:38. 🤣🤣🤣

Elizabeth N

Great reaction! I really enjoy this one with all the back and forth of whether it's Seska or not. There's enough there to make you doubt yourself right up to the end. I agree though that the Kazon are terrible. I don't hate them as much as others but they're definitely not a great villain. And I say that as a huge Voyager defender.

John A

Seska had been defiant (not pun intended) previously, it would have been nice to see her having a few more episodes showing her defiance in some little things before this reveal or at least cause others to doubt more decisions made, like she did last episode. But I enjoyed this one.

Steven Linden

I'm always amused by the scene where Seska's telling Chakotay about how she wanted the soup, so she created a distraction to get Neelix out of the kitchen, and Chakotay's just nodding along and smiling until she says she stole the soup. Like... where did you think this story was going, Chakotay?

Steven Linden

Some behind-the-scenes info about this one: Paul Robert Coyle, who was a freelancer, pitched the basic idea for it to Michael Piller when Voyager was still in early production. Piller loved the idea, and Seska was developed as a character throughout the whole season with this episode in mind. Piller also did a lot of uncredited rewrites on the script, including adding the romantic backstory between her and Chakotay and focusing on keeping the audience guessing right up to the end.

Greg Arledge

Thanks and your head canon is also actual canon. If you are also watching DS9, in the first episode with the Maquis (part 2 I think) the Vulcan woman tries to mind meld with Gul Dukat and he resists it. And he isn't even Obsidian Order.

TalynOne

It's dangerous in the same way Vulcans never lie. Spock did it on a whim all the time. Actually from my memory we never see any modern Vulcan stop themselves from doing it due to "safety" or any other reason.

River Acheron

Yeah, but you have to admit that there's plenty from 60's Trek that they reworked in the 90's and 00's. It's retconning, which is absolutely valid and very common. Sensibilites change, ideologies, taboos, technology, etc. In fact, 60's Trek is so different that the fans of the 90's show have a pet theory that what we see in TOS is just a holodeck simulation. Obviously this is NOT canon but it's JUST a MatPat-esque fan-theory. (I mean in Bread and Circuses you got a Christ reference and in an almost worshippy way. That doesn't fly now. And that's not the only Christian reference in TOS. Its hard to believe we consider that canon now. In any case, retconning is always and will always be devisive. I sit on the fence and am okay with it if done either quietly or intelligently. I honestly wouldn't mind if they edited out that awful non-consensual Mind Meld from Star Trek 6 and changed it up via some clever AI. Then there's a Voyager episode that we ALL KNOW that I will NOT say or even hint at, that the powers-that-be literally took out of canon, or so I read on Memory Alpha. Because it was just that terrible. (and yeah, prob my only E- of the entire franchise. Well...there's one more on a different show but we will get there.)

Comrade Wireless Caller

I wish we could have gotten to know Seska more before she was revealed to be a spy, then her betrayal would have meant more to me.

Breakingthenotion

I love the use of the recurring characters in season one of Voyager. For the next two episodes they should had replaced crewman Durst with Joe Carey.

Skye Maidstone

VOY is just so consistantly mediocre. I can remember why it's my least rewatched of the Star Treks now (pre 2009 obviously).

BN13

The Obsidian Order might memory wipe their operatives for specific missions, but the Central Command and other organizations probably don't. The Obsidian Order is on the level of Area 51 compared to the rest of the populace when it comes to their technology. Memory wiping is probably something that, if the order even does it at all, only the Obsidian Order has access to. We don't know exactly which faction Seska was working for, or how high up her mission was, but I doubt she was Obsidian Order. I'm assuming she was working under Gul Evek since he's in charge of the DMZ, and that the DMZ Cardassians are kind of their own small thing, so they wouldn't see the need or have the resources to memory wipe their operatives.

Mark Chrisco

Always liked Martha Hackett. She's one of those performers who has a villainous face. You might remember her as the Romulan cloaking device operator on the DS9 episode, The Search, parts 1 and 2 too.

penoyer79

i couldnt disagree more.

penoyer79

i agree. we needed to see more of her and chakotay hot n heavy early on.

Capture The Moment

I've been excited since the Kira episode to see what your thought would be on this reveal

Ja Dav

The stinker of the season is two episodes away.

Ja Dav

Tuvok and Torres get out of last week's doghouse pretty fast, but that happens when there are suddenly much bigger betrayals.

jon bolton

You guys said in the intro it's due a bad episode, this is my favourite of the Season, and only S for Season 1. I love Seska!

Skye Maidstone

Fair enough. I remember a lot of people loved VOY (Proper Star Trek on a ship) back when it was new and never got into DS9. For me DS9 (and TNG) are quite a bit ahead of VOY.

SWOLEXX

I knew you would love this show. I KNEW IT.

Whiskey61 .

How do you not understand that this is a spoiler? How can this be explained to you?

Mark Simonson

Not only does Seska point the finger at herself to try to fake out the investigation, the writers keep pointing the finger at her in a way that makes the audience think it can't be that simple. And it's not, but not because it's not her.

Mark Simonson

Regarding the whole issue of getting back to the Alpha Quadrant, realistically, given that it may take 70 years to get there, one would think that a lot of the crew would rather go for the sure thing and just find someplace to live in the Delta Quadrant, maybe by mutiny if necessary. But that would be a very different show, so you have to accept that practically everyone on the crew is on board (literally) with Janeway's plan, as implausible as that may be.

ShazD

Seska had good points although they were obviously not as salient here as they might be later.

Anonymous Science

I didn't get it until it was pointed out to me in an interview with someone from the Voyager tv crew (I forget who), but the Kazon are intended to be analogs for LA gangs. So they are unique from the Klingons in that respect.

Jason Aud

They don't always "wipe their memory", you remember they were trying to trick Kira. Knowing who they are they have more control on covering themselves. She also told stories last episode to manipulate Torres toward getting the trajector tech. So they may have different levels or approaches for each mission/assignment. Ahh, same points you made in the end haha.

Actuarial Lurker

Michael Pillar is the one who said that the Kazon were modeled on LA gangs like the Crips and Bloods who would battle over "street turf"

Geordie Joe

Martha Hackett (Seska) does a great job switching instantly from Bajoran to Cardassian with her mannerisms and line delivery. Also, it's a weird coincidence, but I'm watching another reactor who is reacting to Star Trek, and her name is Sesska.

L J

I think it must be quite challenging trying to strike a balance with the timing of "high impact" moments. There's something to be said that those moments are more meaningful after it's been "earned" over time with the show, but at the same time, the way you "earn" it is through having a selection of those high impact moments early on. It's kind of the same as going on family vacations with young children. It could be argued not to bother with the super awesome trips when kids are too young to really appreciate or remember the experience, but at the same time, it's those experiences that form the building blocks of their core memories. It would have been cool to see what they would have done if we'd kept Seska on the ship longer, either before revealing she was a Cardassian, or trying to balance having an undercover Cardassion on the ship for a season. But at the same time, having a few choice reveals like this early on is part of what makes Voyager season 1 so memorable and it helps set the tone for other big reveals in the remaining six seasons. So it would have been neat to see later, but I also love that they did it when they did. Also, this sort of ongoing, serialized story was very unusual in the 90s. So I agree with Josh's point that trying to keep the audience up to speed with that sort of crucial development would have been tough to manage longterm. As it is, the sort of ongoing story they've managed so far, though it may seem minor compared to today's TV, was actually pretty groundbreaking for the time.

Peter Powis

Love this episode, particularly Martha Hackett's acting, which was a masterclass in certain scenes!! Great subplot in previous episodes to set up Seska and Carey as side characters to make this episode more believable! Some great scenes too from several of the characters as you mentioned. Had to laugh so much when you mentioned "how are the female characters getting unlimited makeup???" Btw i think the Kazon make good villains, even if they are not the most notorious, but they are sometimes laughable and ridiculous. Aren't some real-life bullies ridiculous too, yet they can still cause great harm?

Peter Powis

yes it's clever writing!!

Zerocooleo

The reason the Kazon look like ass is the water shortage in that quadrant. I had a friend with long hair that came back from a music festival with hair that looked like a Kazon! Also there are many sects of Kazon they are not all the same. Their hair always gave me Krusty the Clown vibes though. I did like that both the Federation and Cardasians had spies on the Marquis ship. It would have been nice if they let Seska restore her Cardassian appearance and serve in Star Fleet.

Peter Powis

yes and it explains her rebellious attitude to most things!

Badmiral Burgess

A few things here. One. This episode lays a good foundation for the next few seasons. Good writing and good character development two. Where are the credits for pateons. three. This is the delta quadrant completely opposite side of the galaxy of DS9. Four. Where are the letter grades?!?!?

Todd

I do like the idea that Seska would have been on board and just revealed to be a Cardassian without the Kazon involvement. Could they really trust her? Doubtful, so she would have to be confined to quarters. But the Doctor could have restored her appearance since there was no need to maintain her subterfuge.

Greg Quinn

They have kinda moved away from giving letter grades all the time. 🤷‍♂️

Loot Narsbaar

They probably shouldn’t have told a hostile alien species they can make water out of thin air.

Jonathan Llyr

The Kazon were one of the reasons I had trouble warming up to Voyager. They’re a huge creative mis-step as far as I’m concerned. That being said this is a good episode, even though it does make our first officer seem naive and incompetent as a leader.

BN13

The word you are looking for is "Validation." People constantly seek it from each other and other outside sources because we constantly doubt ourselves. The more insecure we are, the more validation we need to offset that doubt. I'm convinced validation is a human need. When we seek validation, we're seeking reassurance that we are ok as a person, and there's nothing wrong with us. We're constantly trying to justify and convince ourselves that what we think or did was ok or correct, or normal, and there's nothing wrong with us and we're not stupid, and we didn't make a mistake. Or that our world view is "ok" and right, and we weren't misinformed. Lots of people actually watch this and other reaction channels because they're seeking validation on their own Star Trek opinions. It's something we all subconsciously do whether we're aware of it or not, not just on Star Trek, but on everything. That's why so many people react so strongly if you end up hating something that they love. They feel that emotion as invalidation of their own experience with the movie or episode. If they aren't aware of what's going on, then that uncomfortable emotion makes them feel like they were wrong, which the ego interprets as an attack, so that gets defensively projected out as "no YOU'RE wrong!" And then they have to try and convince you that you're wrong and they're right in order to get the feeling of validation back. It takes a lot of self-awareness to recognize that feelings of validation or invalidation are just feelings, and someone else can have another opinion without it invalidating your own experience. Plus it doesn't help that most of us have probably felt invalidated our entire lives. A lot of us use invalidating language toward others all the time without even realizing it as a way to validate ourselves at another's expense, especially older generations, and people who were never taught how be supportive. But anyway, in Chakotay's case specifically, him describing it as "misery loves company" wasn't really accurate. He was specifically seeking validation for himself because he was worried that there was "something wrong with him" that made him easy to fool since both Tuvok and Seska were undercover operatives and Chakotay couldn't tell with either one. Can he ever trust his own instincts again? Is he doomed to always be fooled because he just sucks that bad? But, if Seska was able to fool Tuvok too of all people, who is arguably the most unfoolable person on the ship, then that validates Chakotay as being "nothing wrong with him specifically" because she fooled everyone, even the most unfoolable person on the ship, not just him. I guess you could say that it validates the feeling that "the fault was in Chakotay's stars, not in himself." He didn't make a mistake, or was prideful, or arrogant. He can feel validated now that he didn't do anything wrong, and these things just happen. As Picard said in Peak Performance, "it is possible to make no mistakes and still lose."

V G (Zay)

the problem with pushing back a reveal with a minor character like this is probably at least partially logistical. One of the cast whose name is in the title, they've got em. They're under contract. But filming the first season they don't know if Martha Hackett might be casted as a main character somewhere else and be unavailable in S2, you know? I'm always glad when we see familiar faces in the background because it emphasizes the factor of 'this is a small isolated crew', but I do understand the practical considerations. I'm willing to compromise based on that XD Like, if you want to do a Lower-Decks-crew based episode later on you can either 'waste' a great actor's hours by pre-seeding them in very minor appearances ahead of time, maybe you do that with 5 actors and 4 of them are unavailable later, or you can make us go 'damn why didn't we get this guy on screen sooner??' by hiring a beast and just saying 'idk she works in a sector that the show hasn't focused on yet'.

Target Audience

Bro really dropped a dissertation then said “anyway.. Chakotay”

penoyer79

ja dev - shut up

penoyer79

i have a lot of problems with DS9. the main one being i just dont like half the main cast at all. with voyager it's only neelix that gets on my nerves but he's just a side show clown anyway.

Greg Quinn

I agree that on one level it is as this kind of implausible to travel 70,000 light years (or is it more?). At the same time how many times did the enterprise get flung 10,000 of the thousands of light years? 🤷‍♂️

Skye Maidstone

yeah thats very important. i only actually really love 3 of then cast in VOY (can't say who obviously). I love pretty much everyone in DS9 and the recurring cast are amazing. So thats makes a huge difference to your enjoyment of either series.

Often Wrong Soon(g)

Glad is missed a lot of these episodes originally. I remember this one generically and that I thought she turned on them. But not the reveal or link to DS9. Thank goodness for aged memories. Unlikely to have any patron takes as I prefer to sit and watch-along. And thanks for the PlutoTV hint, able to drop paramount+ and save that $$ for patreon for the next 5 years. I remember when cable was ad free because you paid for it. Now the ads are longer , constantly repeating AND you pay for that privilege ,

Often Wrong Soon(g)

I did not realize until watching it again Seska allowed them to hide from their sensors and made the transaction in the cave. I thought the ship was found, but had forgotten the set-up prior and the call-out that it was the same ship from the planet. Still amazed that with good writing you can cover so much ground in 40 min runtime. Now it seems it takes a full season of 10 streaming episodes to tell one story.

Mark Simonson

I was referring to the willingness of the crew to go along with Janeway’s plan to try to get back home as implausible. Flung 70K light years? These things happen. What can you do.

ShazD

I disagree that that many people would want to settle down in the Delta quadrant so quickly.

Ricky

The episode does a great job with the double bluff, which is clearly what you both were responding to. The mystery is then elevated further by a hidden-identity twist. So the story is not simply that Seska is framed as the most likely culprit and then made doubtful through the double bluff. It goes a step further with not only did she do it, but she is not even who the crew, or the audience, believed her to be. Also, Josh, I really enjoyed your take on the idea that Voyager strips Starfleet ideals out of the comfort of the Federation and tests them in deep unknown space. This made me reflect on that idea. Voyager is removed from the structure, authority, and even corruption of Starfleet ("badmirals"), the crew is left carrying those ideals on their own, without the usual institutional safety net. That makes the show especially interesting because it is not just about whether Federation principles sound admirable in theory, but whether they can actually hold under pressure when surrounded by danger, uncertainty, and competing values. In that sense, Voyager becomes very relatable in a symbolic way. We can develop a sense of identity and a philosophy of life, but once we move out into the world, those things are tested by real circumstances, real temptations, and real conflict. What makes Voyager compelling is that it grounds that struggle in a science fiction setting while still reflecting something very human: the challenge of figuring out what it really means to hold onto your principles, adapt them, or risk losing them altogether. “Misery loves company” is also a very old and widely recognized adage. “Misery” does not have to mean absolute sadness or depression. It can refer just as easily to something more ordinary, like being disappointed, frustrated, or bummed out. So in this case, “misery loves company” fits what you were describing, that there is comfort in realizing that an unpleasant experience is shared, and that your own discouragement is not some isolated or abnormal thing. That kind of shared experience can create a sense of community and make the sting of mistakes hurt less.

penoyer79

I'm sure the writers were aware of making Chakotay look too incompetant, which is probably why they made it a point to show us that Tuvok was fooled as well, that gives Chakotay some room for error here. Plus Chakotay/Seska were intimately involved making him even more vulnerable to deception. I do like it when a show lets its characters fall on their face. Especially early because it opens up character development opportunities.

Tim Nikiforovs

my brain short-circuited trying to make sense of those percentages

Tim Nikiforovs

I'm not blown away by this episode, but I think it's a solid B+. I do wish they'd milked the Seska plotline a bit before revealing her as a traitor. Could have been an ongoing plot thread until the end of the season, and have the reveal there. Not a huge deal though. As others have pointed out, were I Carey in that ready room, I'd probably have volunteered for a mind meld to prove I'm not the traitor. Then again, that would rather abruptly end the episode. As is, I do like that despite Tuvok being the other rat in Chakotay's crew, they bond a bit here over both being fooled by Seska. As for the Kazon, I'm not as harsh on them as some fans, but they're very forgettable as villains. Culluh really didn't get a chance to show off any character traits beyond arrogance, but that did lead to that great scene with Janeway, so that's a plus. On the one hand, Seska does raise some good points, and I would say she was genuinely trying to help the ship and crew survive(even if indirectly the main reason was to keep HERSELF alive), but there is a flaw in her reasoning. The very nature of the show and Voyager's journey back means any alliances they form will be fairly temporary given they're constantly on the move and therefore moving beyond the reach of said allies. Not to mention, striking up an alliance with one faction could well make you the enemy of another. Obviously opportunities for trade should be considered, but for the most part, the smart move would be to keep their heads down and try to avoid pissing anyone off.

Drake

the not remembering of Cardassian spies is true and in Kiras episode they end with her father hoping shes still out there not knowing the truth... but thats for deep cover Cardassians on long term missions, Seska is just a spy on a marquis ship probably continuing sending data to the Cardassians. She would not be usefull if shes not remembering, shes was not a sleeper she was an active spy.

Jonathan Llyr

Or perhaps it just makes Tuvok seem incompetent as well for a Vulcan of his age and experience. 😉

Kt B

I agree that Chakotay doesn’t hold the focus here as much as the other characters. I’m biased because I think he’s handsome, introspective, and quietly competent, which makes him a 10 in my book, but this episode highlights that he lacks charisma and gravitas. My thing is that I feel deeply for him because I’ve been in this situation before where I was leading a group of people I cared about, but they took advantage of my good nature and manipulated me horribly. I’m too empathetic and loyal, so the urge to bend over backwards for people, make unreasonable accommodations for them, and cover for them when they’re in trouble is strong, yet ultimately leads to weak leadership. When people have agendas that are not aligned with the mission and don’t see the value of following the rules and adhering to principles, it makes it really hard to govern them. Chakotay has some core requirements for being a good leader, but he needs to work on being impartial and commanding instead of leveraging personal relationships to get cooperation. The latter approach can work when spearheading a project, but for leading a starship, the former is absolutely required. I just wonder how things would’ve been different if Commander Riker was in this situation.

#MaxwellDidNothingWrong

Would you withold the technology of crop rotation, fertilizer, and drought resistant crop species to Africa to avoid violating the prime directive and upsetting local balances of power? Someone want to likewise defend withholding food replicators? From a thirsty people who consider water scarce?

#MaxwellDidNothingWrong

The writers should have been aware of how common water is in the universe and how easy it is to make from only two ingredients that are equally extremely common in the universe (hydrogen and oxygen) Ignite hydrogen mixed with oxygen and you two can create water out of thin air -- Warp drives, force fields. But no 10th grade chemistry?

#MaxwellDidNothingWrong

He thought the morale crisis was going to be about how they missed making mushroom soup for Chakotay back home and Neelix would relent to cheer them up. Hmmm... maybe Chakotay IS naive

#MaxwellDidNothingWrong

Neelix is a broken clock. I bet those apples were only poison to Talaxians. Different species have different biologies. And plenty of foods are 'toxic' until being processed, maybe let the magic people take a check before dismissing it. Neelix? Advice? No thanks.

#MaxwellDidNothingWrong

Really explains why she kept turning the thermostat up and advocating for fascism.

Ca$hWednesday

I feel like Seska being an Obsidian Order Cardassian as part of the crew for the series would be a DS9-type thing. DS9 is the risk taking show, and VOY is more paint by numbers Trek. I know this is a generalization and it's not a slight on VOY at all.

Derek Orr

Maquis seem pretty sad lol undercover Starfleet operatives, undercover Cardasians

M.A. Moreno

Seska is the real hero of Voyager. Everything she said was true. (And a sane captain, like Kirk, would agree with her.)

M.A. Moreno

Yeah, the Cardassian has the moral higher ground here.

Gregory Christ

You said it would be confusing if Seska stayed on the ship with everyone knowing she was a Cardassian while still looking like a Bajoran. I'm pretty sure if they went the route of her being a Cardassian spy but not being the traitor, they could have easily switched her over to the Cardassian makeup. The Doctor would clearly be capable of surgically altering her appearance back to her natural appearance and with her cover blown there would be no reason for Seska to still want to look like a Bajoran. (The actress still wanting to look Bajoran rather than Cardassian is another matter as I'm sure the Bajoran nose ridges take infinitely less time compared to the Cardassian makeup, which is probably up there with the most complex designs in Star Trek.

jan

this episode has my favorite line of the series - as Chakotay says to Tuvok "you were working for her, Seska was working for them, was anyone on that ship working for me?" - Love it

Steve777

You guys are probably too young to know this, but misery loves company is a very old well-known phrase and accepted as a standard.