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UNCUT - Through the Looking Glass (DS9 S3E19) | Star Trek Journey 357 (Patreon)

Published:
2026-03-18 12:00:27
Edited:
2026-03-21 10:32:19
Imported:
2026-09
Tags:
stj

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StonyD

Sweeeet. I love this one. "Okay Siddig, last week we needed you to play an old man version of Bashir, and in THIS one we need you to be an asshole version with hilarious hair..."

Summer

Don’t care for the mirror universe but glad you guys posted, Season three being good makes it worse

Christopher Hayes

I actually enjoy this episode more than crossover.

StonyD

I consider this one a "gimmick episode". It's like, you have your "The Bonding"s and then you have your "Data's Day", and then you have a "Heart of Stone".........but then sometime you have to have a "Scotty Returns"-type episode. It's the gimmick. That's the variety of the Trek stuff. Sometimes it's heart-wrenching melodrama, and sometimes it's Rom nailed to a door.

StonyD

Josh I think to address your point as to why Ben didn't fall apart emotionally for Mirror-Jennifer, it goes back to what Alex feels about the Mirror Universe storyline. It's not his Jennifer. Different personality, different woman. It would be a "good scene". But for the character, he's not in love with this woman. And at this point in the show, imo he's found peace with losing her.

Summer

Shows how I don’t like this one, didn’t even remember the take I left,

Sam Langanke

Why not a Mirror-Universe episode in each season? There was a Q and a Lwaxana episode in (almost) every TNG season. And these included good ones and not so good ones. This one is not so good.

THE LORE!!!

Don't hate this one but man, what a waste of Tim Russ

Derek Locke

Not a great episode, but I don't think it's as bad as you guys feel it is. Not everything has to be deep and intellectual writing. It's fun (for me) to see the actors we know ham it up outside of there norm. Rom was awesome in this episode!

Collin Freeman

Too soon and too convenient. Everything was too convenient and predictable. Even just crossing over into the mirror universe and back is too convenient. Full on C-tier for me.

Matchstick Jose

Oooh, nice swerve with dropping a trailer for this. Now, whenever you drop a trailer and someone goes “You must have really liked it!” someone else can go: “Don’t be hasty. Remember the Oath. Remember the Looking Glass.”

Ryan

Missed opportunity overall, but I enjoy a lot of the components. Everyone getting to chew scenery is always fun. And I loved the dynamic of Sisko having to apologize for another man’s romantic mistakes — and feeling real pain from that because he loved a version of this woman. They didn’t take that as deep as they could have, but Avery Brooks still did some solid work in that scene.

Ayomide Bennett

This episode was perfect even though it’s a C, it shows that things are happening in the mirror universe and that there is a way to go back.

Sam Langanke

You can dislike this as much as you want. But don't you dare to say something bad about the next two DS9 episodes. DON'T YOU DARE!

Ryan

I didn’t want to comment “NOW the series really starts!” for the twelfth time, but…

Doctor Pulaski

This new TD early access rule is amazing - If you folks reading this X days from now have not upgraded to Target Audience tier, WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR??!!

David Wayne Fox

I enjoy the idea of this one a lot but as you guys always say, it's about execution. I do enjoy the scenery chewing by the Mirror Universe characters, and there is some emotion with Benjamin seeing Jennifer. But something definitely lacking whether it's the pacing or writing or something else.

Matchstick Jose

I think Josh does trailers for all the two-parters, so tough to gauge anything from those.

TalynOne

This has a story and is fun, so I'm certain the boys will hate it. I love mirror universe episodes, gives our actors chance to play out of character, especially Nana Visitor. Also Sisko bedded both Kira and Dax, out rizzed Kirk.

Matchstick Jose

The show is definitely about to hit another gear.

TalynOne

They'll despise it because it's not a Risa episode where they talk about their feelings around a campfire for 45 minutes.

TalynOne

Meh, leave him on Voyager, he's barley interesting on Voyager, let alone on DS9.

Prof Moff

Thank god Tuvok was in the episode. Think how bad this ep could have been without him.

TC Green

Like you said good premise, bad execution. Also, Sisko sleeping with Mirror Dax always felt scummy to me.

THE LORE!!!

My point was why even bother bringing the character (and actor) over if he's not going to do anything? At least when Bashir showed up on the Enterprize, he did shit.

Doctor Pulaski

@TalynOne - Tuvok is "fascinating", as Spock would say. He's a great vulcan character, I love that he's security focused, not science, and how this colors his logic. "Nevertheless" as Tuvok would say, he is a full blooded Vulcan, which is also a first for main cast, and very cool to have. And Tim Russ is excellent.

Worf and Riker Ride Again

What are we doing here Alex, I hear you ask? We are watching Sisko pull a Riker Manoeuvre and bang all of his crewmates! The end.

Worf and Riker Ride Again

It was crying out for: Bashir: "so what did you find Mr Tuvok?" Tuvok: "we ain't found shit!"

Matchstick Jose

My whole joke is collapsing! 😅 In fairness to me (the best kind of fairness), I think it got a C in the end-of-season tier ranking. (And, yes, I know “C’s a positive grade,” but I see it as more a “meh” grade, since there are three positive rankings above it.)

Doctor Pulaski

Not going to defend this episode, overall I find it tedious (not unlike Distant Voices). However... All this shit talk about DS9 over several meh episodes in a season that has overall been better than at least several TNG seasons (1, 2, 7, and maybe even 3 & 5) .... I'll forgive you guys because you are still in the Voyager honeymoon phase. Curious to see if the bloom will come off that Rose as DS9 kicks it up into its highest gears over the next few seasons....

Zenlike Creature

This episode is fine. I enjoy the fact the actors get to play alternate versions for themselves. You do raise some things I'd not really considered before, and that's fair critique. It was a bit of a waste of Tuvok. Wonder if he was dropped in there to remind the audience that there's the other Trek how going on as well ;) Let's just hope you enjoy the next two episodes, otherwise you may face outright rebellion in the comments section...

Doctor Pulaski

Minor corrections: No wormhole in the Mirror Universe, so no Dominion. They didn't come back through the wormhole in Crossover (it was a one way trip), so Smiley had to figure out the Transporter trick (from the original TOS episode). That's why Smiley can come and go as he pleases.

Matchstick Jose

Don't think that's right. Kira and Bashir fly the runabout into the wormhole in Crossover to get back.

Matchstick Jose

Just saw something I was unaware of about this episode on Memory Alpha. “Tuvok (played by Star Trek: Voyager's Tim Russ) was included at the request of Rick Berman. Sakonna (The Maquis Part II) was the original character.” Would at least have been DS9 using a character from its own show, instead of random, pointless crossover.

Target Audience

You’re fine, after “the low grade of an A” we’ve heard it all

Target Audience

Would’ve liked for the episode to show what you’re saying rather than me having to just assume that

Doctor Pulaski

Oh yeah! My bad. They TRIED to use Smiley to use the transporters, so that does explain why Smiley figured it out (makes sense being O'brien). And you are right, the wormhole does exist, they just had not discovered it over there. So yeah... Where the F is the Mirror Dominion!!!! I was wrong, thanks for the correction!

Marko

I have to agree on the actress playing Jennifer Sisko, Felecia M. Bell, being bland here. And it is not due to the script imo. She may not have a tonne to work with, but she could have put more emotion into it, we've seen it done many times with other actors elevating mid scripts. But it's just a flat delivery.

Sam Langanke

So now we know the trailer was only a challenge and Josh even didn't want to do it. We have been worked! lol

harrypothead42024

I know getting episodes like this early is only a good thing for the patrons, but I still feel like we're supposed to complain🤣

Prof Moff

No scoreboard for DS9. I now realize I should have but I didn't think there was a lot going on in DS9. I wasn't really a fan and very unfamiliar with it. This ep would have been a big scores count for a few people. But it is too late unfortunately. to start from the beginning. Maybe I'll go back and start one after all we do need a full count for everyone

StonyD

In retrospect, the whole plot should have been a two-parter. Like you said, none of the beats had any time to breathe. Just a gimmick episode.

Lt Dan I Scream

Just got through all the comments. Can’t wait to watch this one. I always liked the crossover episodes. Really has zero impact on the world we live in and it’s like a silly contract filler.

Steven Linden

Man, Alex is just desperate for the O'Brien switch from "Visionary" to be important.

River Acheron

It's not much better than the pilot. I don't think she is a good actress. :/

River Acheron

It sounds as if you're struggling not to say you don't like DS9 that much. Remember though that there was 10 episodes this season (in a row) that you loved. Slumps like this happen and I promise the show gets only better from here. As far as this episode goes, while I tend not to judge something based on missed opportunities or what I would have liked to have seen, what I DO see here is a fairly bland follow-up to Crossover. So I agee with that. I absolutely wouldn't go as low as a D though. For me, it was slightly below baseline, so... C-

Marko

Possibly so, although I haven't seen her in anything else other than the role of Jennifer, but you might be right

tyranusfan

I always liked how the Terran raider ships used the old 23rd century (TOS movie) graphics, suggesting that Earth tech stopped developing a century earlier when they were conquered.

Sykonee

Having initially missed 'Crossover' first-run, I had no idea this was specifically a sequel episode when I first watched it. Just some weird, unrelated parallel universe thing. You'd think not having that legacy tied to my expectations would have helped it stand out more but nah. Episode's issues remain structural, its pacing and lack of 'going gonzo with alt-reality' moments hampering it from being anything more than 'fine'.

Scott B.

Man if they don't like the next two episodes we might as well end this whole exercise here and now lmao

Collin Freeman

Indeed. Some of the other cast members deserved better, too.

Slugology

i mean, 6 or 7 mid or lower episodes out of 24 aint bad

Timur Nersesov

I get the critique...and maybe it was too subtle...but the way he refused to even tell her who he was I read as a defense mechanism. He struggles throughout about how he might respond to seeing her and the way he handles it I read as growth, that he really has closure. Remember Emissary was three years ago and he was clearly still deeply conflicted with losing her. Again, maybe too subtle in 45 minutes, but I bought it.

reactive1

This is a definite contract filler episode. Everyone got to forget their real characters and pretend to be these “mirror” characters. The only one who didn’t change was Tuvok. He’s the same Vulcan in either universe. C-

JoeCensored

Expected you to like this more. Sisko kidnapped by Mirror Obrien, only to choose to help because he doesn't want to know his wife will die again, then dealing with her face to face. Seems like your kind of story.

Matchstick Jose

I think maybe some of the rough stretches this season are signs of the show trying to adjust to the loss of Peter Allan Fields, such a talented writer of many of the series’ best episodes, from the staff.

Keith S

Bit of a technical plot hole on how you get to the mirror universe. First is with a transporter malfunction. Then it with a rundabout drive malfunction flying through a wormhole. It was then reaveled that transporters were modified so that couldn't be done that way anymore. Now they use a divice to do it with a transporter again? Seems kind of silly to me.

Darren

It’s an example of how a great idea doesn’t quite come together. I still have fun with it but there’s a number of scenes that I don’t like (the Dax stuff), Jennifer isn’t the most compelling actress and the look is a step down from Crossover.

A Plain and Simple Tailor

If J and A are not in on the next 2 after this for DS9 then it simply is not the show for them.

River Acheron

Alex doesn't enjoy the show. He doesn't wanna say it. Josh I think likes it a little better. My only fear is they will tap out and give up on it, but realistically I don't THINK that will happen. But I do worry. I also feel they became very critical of it once Voyager started and are judging DS9 harsher, if that makes any sense? I had a feeling Voyager was going to be the exciting new toy for a while. Well they definitely don't like Ira, but I have a feeling, if they stick with it, they will like what Ira will become. (I don't know if those kinds of behinds-the-scenes things are spoilers to them? So I'll leave it there)

Mark Magana

OMG... rewatched DS9 during Covid... this is one of the most forgettable episodes in DS9 and for the second time, I totally forgot Tuvok was in it. ZERO point for him to be there. Most pointless crossover / cameo in all of Star Trek!

Erik L Jerks

I agree, Avery did have nuance in his expressions. Whenever he turns away from Jennifer and sometimes when he looks at her with confused adoration. It's there in the performance, but not necessarily on the page.

Philbot

It’s funny you guys love character work.. yet are like “eh nothing happened..” I thought the scene with him and Jennifer in her Quarters was a great scene?

Philbot

Smiley figured it out.

Philbot

I think it’s subtle.. you can see it on his face when Jennifer kisses him on the cheek.. he reacts because he’s thinking of his Jennifer..

Sunny

Hmm I surprised people are surprised. For me, this stretch of episodes has always been somewhat forgettable. Doesn’t take away from the series as a whole for me because they have so much more to offer and have already done so well. I suspect each of us has some part of voyager or TNG that we feel the same way about. If I don’t look forward to rewatching a particular episode on my own and am only watching to see their reaction, well it stands to reason they aren’t likely to be wowed. I think Meridian spoiled us a bit lol

Erik L Jerks

O'Brien is a tinkerer. He figured it out.

John A

11 bucks was a bad bet on this one. Not a loved or liked episode.

Philbot

Garak Hook wouldn’t have worked because he’d be in a Cardassian uniform.

Joe Concepts

OK, yes, they should have had that hook and reveal be much better than two guys calmly talking in a dark room. And I think they expected us to care more about Jennifer. But it sure was funny when you guys looked like you checked out early, until you saw evil Kira!

Philbot

I like the DS9 Mirrorverse episode or Shattered Mirror verse as I call it! It’s original for years novels and what not just did the same old TOS Mirrorverse as always so the Empire falling and the alliance rising in its stead is good.

Philbot

They’ll be Executed when the Intendant catches them. 😂

Prof Moff

working on it Worf. it will get caught up as soon as I can. I was distracted by banging Mirror Kira

Devastron

It was pretty clear to me that Sisko was trying NOT to get attached or show his emotions to this Jennifer. He knew it wasn't his wife, didn't have any of the memories or experiences he had. He's trying to get in and out as quickly as possible and not get sucked in by her. Abducting her and taking her back to his universe isn't even a remote thought for him. Was it a great episode? No, but it wasn't terrible. Its middling, but I have fun seeing everyone acting like crazy piratical versions of their regular characters.

Steve Kaye

Stay with us, guys. You've made it through what many consider a slump. I don't want to be too presumptuous, but it's largely uphill from here!

Numinous2019

I have a rule not to mention any other content creator for a T.A. video. However, I'm going to have to provide a source for the following. SF Debris researched the ratings for DS9. The ratings were good for the first half of a season. After the mid-season break though, the ratings fell off and never hit the first half level. The pattern of several weak or bad episodes in the middle third may have been the explanation. Since I'm Irish and we watched ST seasons continuously from first to last episode, I do not know if broadcast dates (in the U.S.) for 1st and 2nd halves would have anything to do with it.

Numinous2019

Yeah, the reason this episode is largely Meh! is because it was quickly written and filmed after the next episode. So its purpose was......something that can't be stated for a few episodes yet, to avoid any possible spoiler. They did not intend to return to the Mirror Universe, but needed to buy time. Unfortunately, this means that Josh and Alex have effectively wasted their time discussing it, which sucks!

Utterlee

I thought this episode was perfectly enjoyable, but then Evil Kira camping around the screen is enough to keep me happy on its own.

Avaria

I'll go ahead and say it: I don't like or enjoy the Mirror Universe. It worked well for TOS where there was more inherent camp to the style of the show and the characters were more archetypal (thus allowing for greater contrast). There doesn't seem to be any purpose to this iteration of it, and it doesn't fit well with DS9 -- a show that has been trying to emphasize how nuanced its characters are. "Crossover" kind of works because it gives us a sideways glimpse of the occupation and reveals that Kirk's suggestion to Spock, while potentially transformative, wasn't really viable for the present moment (not too surprising given he was there for less than a day). This is just a gungy, violent, hyper-sexualized mess (with bad wigs). D for me, which is the lowest grade I give.

TinMan_7B9

Definitely. A much better ratio than some other shows I could mention.

TinMan_7B9

Shouldn't Contract filler get a C instead of a D? This episode is was literally made to fulfill a contract.

Spartan-463

I'm pretty sure the Tuvok Cameo isn't a promo for Voyager but just fan service of having a cameo.

Doctor Pulaski

Yeah, they view C as the beginning of the positive scale, I think a lot of us consider C to be these types of episodes. Scale expectations misalignment is the source of much drama around here, but in a way it shows how much they love Trek in that only two letter grades are negative, and four letter grades are positive.

Ryan

I think the contrast has been unfavorable to DS9 for a little bit. Voyager has been strong right out of the gate and it feels a lot like TNG 2.0, so it's easy to get excited about that and lose enthusiasm for DS9. I think they'll stick with it because they committed to it, but I also am sitting over here like "Please just wait, please just wait." I know there have been 1000 iterations of the "NOW DS9 is starting!" trope, but in season 4, DS9 really friggin' starts. We're not far off...

Loot Narsbaar

Trying to draw in the Voyager crowd

Loot Narsbaar

I’d put this season behind TNG 3&4 as the strongest seasons viewed so for

Loot Narsbaar

Will be very interested to see if they beam down to a planet later when I re-watch

Ken R

This episode just illustrates when there is an apples to apples comparison, like with Naked Now and Time, how well written TOS could be.

River Acheron

SFDebris is fair game (for me!) because it's completely different. They're reviews and not reactions, and they are old reviews at that. So it's not competition or anything like that. I think Alex and Josh would get a kick out of him tbh.

BN13

I think calling Jadzia "Dax" was a writing blunder. If Jadzia is a slave in this universe, then I assume all of Trill is too. And if all of Trill is enslaved in this universe, then I highly doubt that being joined is even a thing here. Slaves wouldn't have access to luxuries like that. I doubt this version of Trill even knows what simbionts are. Maybe they never discovered them here? Or maybe the Alliance killed them all?

Doug

They said before that the names they gave on the scale aren't literal, like how E for "erase from canon" doesn't actually mean that's the grade you give an episode when it has a canon thing you don't like. It's still just a scale from good to bad.

BN13

I'm someone who never saw much of TOS, or the original Mirror Mirror. I'm also not a fan of the whole "evil alternate universe" premise, and I don't enjoy seeing evil or cartooney versions of our characters, like Intendent Kira. However, because of that, all that leaves me to enjoy from these episodes is character analysis. Which depending on how you watch the Mirror Universe episodes, there can be quite a lot. I used to not like the Mirror Universe episodes at all until I started watching them from the perspective of "what if every character we see in the Mirror Universe, actually IS the same character from our universe, but just if they had gone through different circumstances?" Then it becomes about seeing the "potential" of each of our characters, whether for good or Ill. Then it becomes very interesting knowing that Kira has qualities that depending on how they are tempered, can mold her into either a freedom fighter, or the very type of slave owner that she is fighting against. Maybe Kira should be thankful for the occupation, because it forced her to channel all of her insecurities, anger, and energy into fighting for a just cause. Without that cause, she might have focused all of that energy inward instead until she became just as self serving and controlling as the intendent. We get to see in the Mirror Universe, the darkness that's always inside of her that can take over if she ever allows it. I really wish in "Crossover" we got to see our Kira really react to knowing what her mirror universe self was like, knowing that she could have actually been her, and coming to terms with that. But unfortunately, that's not what the episode focused on. As for Sisko, I think we saw back in "The Emissary" how Sisko was willing to give up and leave Starfleet because his life had gone downhill since losing Jennifer. I think Mirror Universe Sisko had that same tendency to give up if life got too hard. So maybe he was fine with Jennifer in this universe at first, but eventually got so discouraged by the extent of the slavery everywhere, that he just abandoned all sense of right and wrong and just started doing whatever sort of as a "screw you" to the universe. He even said a line in Crossover along the lines of someone who felt like he had either sold his soul, or was always souless. Again, the Mirror Universe lets us see the dark traits that still exist inside our real characters in ways we otherwise would never be able to see or explore. And from that perspective, I find the Mirror Universe episodes extremely interesting.

Malamute

I really like this episode I find it fun and entertaining. I enjoy the camp of the episode. I can see why some people may not like it but for me A all Day.

KingPin124

Also, part of the problem was people hyping up the show before they watched it, which I kept saying to not do. Much easier to be let down if everyone keep hyping it.

KingPin124

Ya, Smiley makes a BIG point about how this is NOT his Jennifer. The guys getting hung up on this not being some stupid romance story is ridiculous.

KingPin124

Damn, who pissed in your Dunkin’ today, guys?? It was actually pretty obvious that you were going to be harsher on whatever episode that came up, based on all of the complaining and negativity before you even turned the episode on. You can always say “clean slate” for every episode, but that’s factually impossible. We’re all human and affected by our mood that day and past experiences. I don’t think either of you were in the mood for it today.

Paul

That's right, pay up Alex.

BN13

Yeah the wormhole exists in the Mirror Universe. It's just that no one there knows about it.

Miranda

I've always felt that Season 3 has a stretch of very dull episodes in the middle. And for me this stretch is even longer than it is for you two, considering I'm "meh" on Heart of Stone, and I don't really like Life Support. I have to assume this is related to Michael Piller leaving for VOY causing the changeover in showrunners during this time. And we know this particular episode was somewhat hastily put together. Ah well. At least Improbable Cause and the Die is Cast are coming soon to save us from these boring episodes. See, those are two episodes where the writers knew how to properly execute their ideas.

Jon Miller

Was this a morning recording? It feels like every time the guys record in the morning it's super low energy and negative, and not a fun watch.

HeatheЯ

Yeah, I'm going to give it a bit longer but then, probably out.

FPG

Anyone know why Amazon has this one out of order? Amazon has this and improbable causes (the next ep) reversed.

Loot Narsbaar

Shoulda thrown a phaser on overload at Kira and Garak when they were trapped in the hallway

Miranda

That was the original production order. They didn't decide to make Improbable Cause into a two-part episode until they were already working on it.

Miranda

I did the watchalong, but honestly, I ended up playing a game on my phone halfway through. This episode is boring. I don't understand why the writers are so interested in this universe. There is nothing exciting about it. The politics are dumb, the characters are shallow. The regular universe of the show is so much more interesting, with much more complex characters. Which the writers demonstrate in the next two episodes! I agree with Alex. There's nothing here. Ha ha ha! Great job with the trailer challenge Josh! I said there how impressed I was that you made this episode look exciting.

Loot Narsbaar

I forgot how LAZY the hook was. There was about 26 times one of the extras in the back of ops could have snipered Smiley while he has his back turned or crouching. Someone had to be armed. Or someone could have kicked him in the ass from behind. DUMB.

Badmiral Burgess

You two are so wrong on this episode. This is good. You are so over critical on analyzing everything. They have what, 40 min to tell this story and you want them to explore every facet of bringing his dead wife back to his universe!? Hello how would that traumatize Jake. I feel like you two dwell on too much detail instead of enjoying this week’s story. Relax, enjoy and it’s not that bad! This is a B episode!

Loot Narsbaar

I'm with you guys this one was not necessary. I had forgotten how slow and plodding the pacing is specifically when they are in the caves in the beginning.

HeatheЯ

I love that future O'Brien has fucked up Alex. It did the same for me. :D

Derek Orr

oh boy just wait to see how that keeps going lol

Trillhouse

It's funny because I think what we are witnessing is literally what happened in 1995 when these shows aired. TNG ended, and people were looking for something similar, and found Voyager. Meanwhile, DS9 never got to flourish on its own, and had a bad stretch of episodes in this lull. A lot of people then gave up on it, and started watching the "familiar" Voyager, and never gave DS9 a full chance. Then of course DS9 eventually becomes something insanely ambitious, but by then, nobody cared but a very small select few. It's literally playing out the exact same way. Ironically, I think if A and G weren't watching in "release order", and just powered through DS9 on it's own on a binge and got to Season 4 quickly, then it wouldn't seem like it sucks as much.

Greg Quinn

I liked this more than crossover. Go figure...

Todd

I feel like the writers were trying to give Benjamin some closure over his wife's death, for whatever reason.

Greg Quinn

The actress who played Jennifer is okay...not great but not terrible. But I actually think the acting from Brooks here is top notch. He is clearly wrestling with what he feels for Jennifer. I also feel like part of him does want to bring her back but he knows that's not right. Not right to do to his son, not right for him since it's really not his Jennifer, and not right for this universe which needs her. And I think he Brooks does a great job communicating all that with little glances and pauses and hesitations. I don't strongly disagree with the guys overall take, but I do disagree on that part.

Sic Coyote

Yeah does feel like they maybe should have had lunch first. You're always grumpier when hungry.

BN13

This episode is ok for me. Probably a high C or low B. I do enjoy it more than Crossover even though Crossover is executed way better. I agree that this episode was hastily put together and had poor execution, and I do tend to forget that this episode even exists. But I also think I'm a person where poor execution doesn't really matter to me. I think with badly executed episodes, or even badly executed characters like Kai Opaka, my brain just kind of fills in the blanks with stuff outside of the episode that completes the idea they were trying to show. Or sometimes expands into other ideas. My patron take on Equilibrium was an example of this where I get a message from that episode through a lens that the episode itself doesn't actually show us. As I wrote in another comment, that outside stuff for this episode is analyzing how the Mirror Universe characters actually "Mirror" our own characters. Same with Past Tense. I look past the preachiness of that episode, the defiant being protected by the time shift, and Bashir going "people have just forgotten how to care" because I like watching stuff that tries to show us, "how did we get from today to Star Trek? What happened in the in between period? What changed?" And I deal with Job and Family Services all the time and I know that they act exactly like the Sanctuary District workers, and I can see that whole episode being a real thing with the extreme class divide and ignoring the massive homelessness as a problem if our real society gets to the point where our current economic model, where everything requires everyone to have a job, falls apart because there literally aren't any jobs anymore, and not everyone can be a doctor. Unlike most fans though, I DON'T think that episode is prophetic of 2024 or 2026, but I enjoy watching it mainly because I think it is prophetic of something like 2086. I think Ai is going to eventually force a change in our economic system. And it will suck like the Bell Riots at first. But I also think that economic collapse and integration of automation in our everyday lives, will be part of what ultimately gets us to a better more Star Trek like reality. We have to get through the bad before we can get to the good. But yeah, does any of that actually come strictly from that episode? Was that even the idea that that episode was even trying to show? No. But do I care? Also no. I'm fine using a badly executed episode as a jumping point for exploring ideas, and basically watching my own version of that episode in my head, rather than purely the badly executed episode we actually got. I can also acknowledge that if you take all of that away, then the episode is just a boring, badly executed episode. It just doesn't affect my enjoyment of it.

BN13

I do agree that this episode happened way too soon after Crossover, it didn't go deep enough, and they didn't really do anything with it. This episode could have been so much better.

Target Audience

Every recording since Past Tense has been in the morning, so unless this applies to every reaction on the channel since then, that’s not correct.

Target Audience

Perhaps we didn’t like the episodes because of all the reasons we say in the video.

FPG

Ah, ok, thanks!

Prof Moff

DS9 sex scoreboard Finally some shagging even if it is in Mirror universe. We do have a bit of an issue. Are the mirror characters separate. We have decided yes they are so scores will be counted separate from the main universe. The reason is we separated out Thomas Riker from Will even though they sort of are the same person. We are iffy about this decision so feel to comment if you think the mirror scores should be added to the main cast scores. The sex score board Quark 5 Jadzia 3 Sisko 2 +2 new Chief 1 Keiko 1 Odo 1 Kira 1 Bashir 1 Jake 1 GUEST: Mirror Kira 4 +3 new Mirror Jadzia 1 +1 new DETAILS: SISKO is finally on the board. Mirror Kira starting off with a 3 way (maybe 5 way if fan boys join in) was a great start, at least for the sex scoreboard. Sisko and MDax took a ride down sausage lane. Question is would that be a 3 way because of the other worm. We will not be counting that way but it is something to consider. Sisko has a second cup of coffee this time with MKira. That means MKira has played bun to both Sisko and mSisko hot dogs. Nice job. We almost want to give Tuvok a score as the reason he basically is not in the ep. Maybe he is getting busy.

Tim Nikiforovs

This is crucial research that needs to be completed. This entire Star Trek journey is meaningless without that data

Tim Nikiforovs

Mirror Dominion is probably basically the federation

Scarpad’s Domain

I agree you can tell from the opening that they’ve checked out. Was this the best episode it was a B for me. I’m not the biggest fan of mirror mirror episodes, but after lauding over Voyagers weak episodes and putting them up on undeserved pedestals, they were going to be negative on anything. Plus they don’t pick up on the easiest stuff like thinking they call Dax something else here, no she reacted because sisko let bashir off too easy. I’m really thinking that Nutrek will be their end all

Scarpad’s Domain

I think the issue is that it’s too different with many different aspects to it where we deal with religion, war, sci fi stuff, comedic eps. Voyager is TNG 2.0 just done worse. Technobabble done more. When the majority of most reviews start with 5 min of intro jokes, but amazingly none for Voyager you gotta figure they ain’t keen on it. There’s no way the last 6 episodes have been worse than the last six voyager ones

Worf and Riker Ride Again

Whoah! Quark is on 5 already?! Is he DS9's answer to Riker? Also Mirror Kira with a +3 in one episode? Surely that's a record that cannot be beaten. Great work!

Tim Nikiforovs

And the fact mirror O'Brien is not overly different from ours might be a result of both having been beat down by a lot of things in life. Not to saw Smiley didn't have it way worse, he did, hence being so resigned to his fate at first. Our Miles has a family and a position of importance, but he's definitely experienced some suffering. Now that Smiley has his freedom and a cause to fight for, he has a lot more of the confidence of our Miles. He's a lot rougher around the edges, but that's expected given so many years a slave.

Tim Nikiforovs

What's worse, the subtitles for the 2 eps are also switched, so that doesn't help either.

Prof Moff

Well not exactly but the record is 5 in an ep. To be fair it is a bit of a cheat because it was 5 holodeck sex programs which was done by..........................drum roll.............................................................. The Nagus.

Cranky Grandma

It should have been good. It wasn’t. There are a number this season like that. There are some great ones but also bland and/or weak ones. Honestly I hated this one. An E for me.

Cranky Grandma

I didn’t like this episode at all but I do find it interesting that mirror Kira has dukat qualities

BN13

Yeah I think Intendent Kira and Dukat are both narcissists. I like watching Star Trek from a psychology perspective too, so that's the main reason why I find the Intendent both interesting, and difficult to watch. She's a portrait of a narcissist. In particular with her, you can see the narcissistic trait of having no idea what love is, only control. Yet they want to dominate "love" as well probably precisely because they don't understand it. I have a theory that in the Mirror Universe, Intendent Kira probably killed Gul Dukat in order to take his place. Now, she essentially IS Gul Dukat, right down to thinking she's actually a benevolent overseer who can't understand why the Terrans don't love her.

Cranky Grandma

DS9 season three has more good than bad episodes, and s2 had more bad than good episodes. I find the show tends to improve each season through six (I found seven much like 3 - some outstanding episodes and some bland or wtf episodes). We fans remember the good ones because they are SO good and tend to forget the bad ones. when you have a stretch of weak ones, it’s a problem. Fortunately the stretches of weak ones are shorter each season.

Cranky Grandma

They clearly like the strong episodes and characters. A slump is a slump and I agree with them that after a fantastic start we had a stretch of weak episodes.

Tim Nikiforovs

Yeah, nobody ever accused the mirror universe eps of being popular as a whole. That said, some people love them, and some like myself are pretty neutral on them. I do think it's fun to see "what ifs" for our characters and to let the actors have a chance to mix it up a bit. Siddig has really got a chance to stretch his legs as an actor this season. We got horny Bashir in Fascination, SJW Bashir is Past Tense, Dr. Frankenstein Bashir in Life Support, geriatric Bashir in Distant Voices, and now pirate Bashir. His acting overall has come a LONG way since The Passenger. I get people being uncomfortable with the whole "sleeping with Dax under false pretenses" bit, but to be fair to Sisko, he didn't initiate, and in fact did try to brush off her advances. Granted, he didn't try all that hard, but he also had to maintain his cover. If he's gone in there like "she thinks I'm her Sisko, better shoot my shot" it would be way worse. As for bringing Jennifer back, I don't think that was ever a real option. At the end of the day, he's not the Ben she knows, and she's not the Jennifer he knows. Of course, physically she's identical, so holding her hand, or that kiss on the cheek, it's obviously going to stir up some memories and emotions, but he knows she's a stranger to him. Overall, I give it a C tier.

Loot Narsbaar

Nah, the Dax observation was clever. The final episode sucked. It needs a page one rewrite. I do agree much of VOY (which I would rate as C episodes) are getting glowing reviews but VOY was always more popular than DS9 so it is nothing new.

Loot Narsbaar

By the same logic it doesn't make sense we haven't seen Jake.

Ca$hWednesday

This episode is fine. Middle of the road. I think I can watch these and just enjoy the alternate characters that get to ham themselves up. The story is whatever, but it was okay.

Drake

dont know i rly loved this episode i would love to see siskos reaction seeing his dax xD

MartyMc

I'm sorry, but I find the post TOS mirror episodes gimmicky, and just try to get through them. 1. These aren't the characters we know, 2. The science, sorry but it makes no sense. How can all these people be reproduced with the exact same ancestors despite a totally different culture and history, much less have them all together under totally diffenent circumstances. Jake not being born proves my point. It’s too much of a leap.

Deep Red

So Josh, I'm curious. What inspired you to make a trailer for this episode? Clearly a pretty mediocre episode, but a banger trailer :)

Spencer Loften

Yea... The DS9 Mirror episodes just never worked for me... They're ones I skip if I am ever doing a re-watch.

Godzilla PhD

Didn't he take the suggestion of a trailer for something that didn't live up to it's potential as a challenge? We must exploit this weakness!

Deep Red

Do Move Along Home! You can't. You're not good enough :P

Sam Langanke

It was a challenge from Alex. Josh didn't want to do one.

Kt B

Of all the many, many, many ways this episode stretched suspension of disbelief, the absolute last straw was Sisko’s plan to get them off the station depended on the password being the same. Not only did the same Cardassian build the station and the software and the same Cardassian chose the password, no one changed it in all the years since it was built, even after the previous mutiny in which Smiley and the gang absconded. As someone who was accustomed to rudimentary computer security back in the ‘90s, that wouldn’t have been plausible even back then.

Kt B

*Also, I would just like to point out that Kira Nerys is now canonically bi. Whether one thinks that’s only in the mirror universe depends on one’s particular perspective, but I’m just putting that out there….

penoyer79

lol i like how titled and genuinely offended they are (esp alex) when they get an episode they dont like. my sister-in-law is like this when she's in the car or at a place and she has to listen to a radio station or an album she doesn't like... oh boy... she's unbearable the rest of the day.

David Jevón

No one likes Sisko? The dude saves his deceased wife from another dimension and left it with her wishing it wouldn't end. I'm glad I like what I like. I'll take Felicia M. Bell playing "Jen." Her facial expressions told me things her character was considering and feeling, start to finish. Believable tension between her and Avery. ...and the question is rhetorical. No worries.

Evan Guthrie

They sexualized Dax because they really needed to show off the fact that they have Terry Farrell lol

Evan Guthrie

Damn I had no idea people hated this episode so much.

paultardspambot .

Wow. I loved this episode. Makes me cry. I was bought in to the emotion. Dukat Kira was great

paultardspambot .

The Mirror Universe automatically sexualizes, it seems consistent

paultardspambot .

sigh. This is where you use your imagination. He probably hacked in before and checked, but a scene revealing that kills the tension. Things can be believable if you imagine not every detail was shown

Mel Primus

I enjoy these mirror universe episodes a lot for what they are. B banger for me