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Flagship - Picking Over Perth (Patreon)

Published:
2024-12-02 17:56:28
Imported:
2026-06
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Content

David welcomes Andy and Alan to discuss Rangers 1-0 away victory in Perth against St Johnstone.

HAT

https://heart-and-hand-podcast.sumupstore.com/product/heart-and-hand-famous-collab-beanie-2024

Files

Previews only

Comments

David P

The reason why Sundays win off the back of an impressive European result is being viewed through a negative prism is because we're looking at it being 11 points off the top of the league. Where as with Walter we where competitive. I think that's an important point that Alan failed to address. Omitting it kind of dismisses any criticism as just being "negative"

Jim Milne
>>157069703

We also had players the fans could relate too, and a couple "heros" in the team like a Jelavic or Boyd. I've never felt so disconnected from our team. We grinded out 3 points, wasn't always great viewing but we scored more than 1 and could kill teams off even when grinding out results.

Jim McCutcheon

Individual positives maybe but on teamwork overall I don't see positives 🤔, we won with an own goal against st Johnston not exactly satisfactory imo, we have tuff games coming rapid so we can judge better then , hopefully we are on an upwards scale, thanks guys

David P
>>157069703

And that's something no one wants. A naked attack from Alan 😅 Great show guys, just at the end 👍 No joke I look forward to the pods more than I do the games these days.

Glyn Davies

I'm at the stage that if it wasn't for H&H, the Rangers review, 4 Lads & CJ I'd be done with Rangers 🤣.......at least I can listen to hours of pods & shows on a daily basis that makes me realise I'm not alone in feeling this bad about our team.........I'm sure it can't get much worse 🙈 oh wait a minute

Glyn Davies

I've got a question about Tav......why is he still taking every throw in when he plays? I noticed over the last few times he played & most notably Hearts & yesterday that he seems to slow us down by refusing to let anyone take a throw.....on several occasions other players go to take a quick throw & Tav just tells them to wait while he plods over to take it himself & eventually only throws the ball to the nearest player! I'd understand if there was some kind of tactical advantage but all I see is it slowing down even more than when we are already playing pretty bloody slow

Alan Bradley
>>157069703

Fair points David and as you say we’re certainly not competitive in the league. In terms of negativity, I feel it’s been there for several months now, even before the points gap was as wide. I mentioned and I agree with most that it has been horrible to watch and we are so far behind where we want Rangers to be. More a case of my expectations from the start of this season, hopefully we can keep winning in the weeks ahead. Hopefully the new CEO will help us and things will start to improve starting from the January transfer window.

Glyn Davies
>>157078246

Cheers Andy.......well against most teams in SPFL I'm.sure we could be trying to be a bit quicker at the throws etc as we're doing is slowing it down & letting them get the double decker parked pack behind the ball......defo need to up the tempo

Billy Forrester

Good listen lads. I can’t help fearing a total drubbing in the cup final as that mob are free scoring and fast and we are slow, laboured and can’t score in Scotland, it adds up to a total mis match and I severely hope I’m wrong but I cannot see this team outscoring that lot, not on the evidence we are seeing

Heart and Hand
>>157078246

Yes and it drives me up the effn wall. The theory is if the full-back takes them, it allows everyone to get in position and less chance of being broken on. Of course, the counter is it lets the opposition reset too and get back in shape. It’s not needed v packed defences.

Brett

Not listened to the pod yet but seen Andy taking pelters online so it must be good 😀

Glyn Davies
>>157078246

Glad I'm not alone in being overtly frustrated with this, I was starting to think I was just getting so depressed watching the turgid domestic football that I am nit picking at every little thing......there's been far too many times in recent games where Tav has taken the ball of Barron & Cerny at a throw just to waste 30 seconds & then throw the ball to Cerny or Barron 🙈 the Aberdeen game was the one where I really noticed it, Barron trying to take a quick throw to catch Aberdeen before they could reset & Tav is roaring at him to stop & give him the ball

Heart and Hand
>>157078246

You are spot on. For me it indicates a lack of emphasis on attacking which should be the priority domestically.

Glyn Davies
>>157078246

100%......we are playing it far too safe & that to me is the sign of a team that is being perhaps over drilled on the tactical shape on & off the ball, which of course is very continental & only have to look back at the down side of Gios time as manager to see a similar issue.......at least Gio still had players like Aribo & Arfield who would run into the box to get on the end of chances & rebounds etc but this current set up has our players very reluctant to do so as they seem to lack confidence in the players behind them at times. Domestically Barron seems to play slightly higher up the park so we really need him to try getting into the box more, this would potentially create more space for others. One more grievance I have is lack of our wide men trying to overlap & get behind these packed defences, we just want to play infield constantly & our forwards are running into walls of defenders.......Jefte & Ridvan always looking to get high & wide & not getting the service

Andy Fullen

Talking about controlling the game - what about killing the game? One more forward player is required for that team and balls into the box quicker. Our number 10s, whoever is selected, are not good enough to create enough chances. In my opinion he is using that formation with the 2 holding players because the defence isn’t good enough or he doesn’t trust them enough. This then has a knock on effect further up the pitch. Domestic football isn’t rocket science.

Rona Bluebell

I do find your sensible words (all three of you) very soothing.

Andrew Finlayson

Thought it was a decent performance yesterday, a fairly dominant win, don’t recall any threat being posed by St Johnstone from 15-20 minutes onwards. It was a good week’s work on the pitch, just hope we can find an edge upfront domestically. On Wednesday I think we are in for another domestic grind, I’ll go 2-1 Rangers.

G Calder

Absolutky brilliant from Alan & Andy. Looking at the big picture & not joining in with the pack mentality of ripping it all up & starting from scratch AGAIN !! ( YES PEOPLE LIKE YOU DAVID !! 😂) 10/10 guys 👍 As always with H&H getting a good spectrum of opinion - j just happen to agree with Andy & Alan .

Alexander Bruce Crombie

This injury that Sterling has picked up might be unlucky, it might be no one’s fault, it may only keep him out for a game but it’s yet another injury he has picked up that stops him getting a run in team. This guy is glass and what do we do- extend his contract! Have we learned nothing

Jim Milne

Here is why I still feel Clement is the problem. If Sir Walter Smith was managing this team I firmly believe we would be challenging. If he didn't have a goalscorer he would move a midfielder into the 9 role like he did many a time. Gerrard, Souness, Smith & McLeish all challenge with this team IMO, mainly because they'd have dropped Dessers & Tavernier months ago and found a band aid solution that worked until a transfer window. They would have set up a formation and tactics that works to the squads and team selection on the day and depending on the opponents. It's not a bad squad, for me it's just being mismanaged. I hate to say it, if Rogers or Postecoglou is managing this squad we score more and finish teams off. The players are playing the way only way they can given the way Clement sets them up. Giving him more money in January isn't going to fix this team. Clement's the issue, not the players.

Douglas Innes

Andy has a very valid point about goalscorers , year we won the league regular goalscorers were Morelos Defoe Hagi Tavernier Goldson( 8 goals i think for season ) Arfield Barisic Aribo jack scored a couple ....... who scores for us now ? There's no one you'd say " he'll get us a goal "

Vanb bryceter

After Thursday I was excited for Sunday's game. The excitement evaporated about ten minutes in. The inability of our front line to string the simplest of passes together is infuriating. I was back to sacking Clement by the end. However after reading Souness comments I think we need to suck up what's coming and give Clement January transfer window into the summer then evaluate from there

William Cameron

Andy if you were with Hitler in the bunker in April of 1945 your optimism would put Goebbels to shame.

Gary Staff

Who knew shingles affects the brain? 😀

Allan Campbell

Easyist 1 nil win you'll see all season, the park was a riot .hopefully start getting some decent deliveries to attack with a volly or a header ,bring bk barisic 😂

John Smith

Still awaiting that spin off lads

David MacT
>>157089055

If arguably our greatest ever manager was in charge we’d be better off? Well, obviously 😁

Jim Milne
>>157089055

Mentioned 3 other managers as well. Fact is he's not getting the best out of the squad.

Jim Milne
>>157085999

Andy was the consummate professional, until RBR got their claws into him. Ha

Chris Graham 🇬🇧🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

I understand Alan and Andy trying to see it as a one off game and a wins a win Guys we are rotten . Coaching . Good potent shape implements and potent passages of play are in short supply it’s rotten to watch The amount of times Cerny gets one on one , has 10-15 yards of space down the line to pop the ball into and test his opponent and checks inside into traffic gives me tooth ach A clement ism Inverted wingers pish Ajein robben we do not have so why are we playing like we do Coaching , managment , lack of ideas ( by design ) it’s utterly appalling Any slower we are stopping

Graham Roy

Got to agree with Andy I was the same not defending PC but we won and move onto next game.

Jamiedfa

Souttar for captain!

Hendi

Alan's absolutely nailed the situation within the first 12 mins of the pod. Too many of our fans are determined to interpret every decision taken by the club in the most negative terms possible. There is not even an attempt to look at things rationally or objectively. Nor acknowledgement when people are wrong. And no matter how wrong the loudmouths get it, they never let it affect the certainty of their latest opinion. The same folk that wanted Cerny sent home earlier in the season; the same folk hailing Jimmy Thelin as some kind of genius a few weeks ago; the same folk who are somehow able to hold the completely contradictory position that the club were negligent in signing Cortes, due to his injury record, but also negligent for failing to sign Sima...

Nikky Cairney

Was going to say I envy guys who can try and find positives from Sunday. As David said of it was a one off performance after Europe we would all accept it but it’s not. Alan said he’s accepted the season being a poor one and again I think we as a fan base could accept that if we could see any sign of progress on the park. There’s none. I’d ask Alan and Andy who are trying to be positive with Clement, who is he improving? We are a club who is going to rely on signing players for X and selling for Y and the only way we do that for profit is by having a manager that makes players better. Regarding us domestically compared to Europe. In my opinion nothing will change whilst we continue to play Barron and Raskin against teams like St Johnstone. Away in Europe suits them perfectly and tougher away games yes. But we do not need both yesterday. Dio is on paper one of our biggest assets and the manager isn’t getting the best out of him.

Hendi
>>157140242

The full panel acknowledged that the partnership of Barron amd Raskin has stopped teams waltzing through our midfield now. That's one improvement they acknowledged.

Nikky Cairney
>>157140242

I agree it’s stopped us getting waltzed through. But my point is to improve we need to move to having one of them playing and it’s down to the manager to set us up with one of them and stop getting played through. Sticking with the two will continue to see us go through games like Sunday and every other game domestically. And that comes down to Clement not changing shape or not having patterns of play.

David MacT
>>157139517

Totally agree. There’s also a point to be made that what a lot of our support say nowadays doesn’t mean anything, or to put it a different way it won’t make a bit of difference as too many start with the mindset of constant negativity and work backwards. It’s just white noise now as it’s so constant and predictable. A lot of our support don’t want a debate anymore, they don’t care about context or even looking at the bigger picture. Too many just want to be angry 24/7 and burn everything to the ground constantly.

David MacT
>>157089055

Smith is arguably our greatest ever manager. Gerrard didn’t start properly challenging until he had 5 transfer windows to build his squad, which included a front line of a peak Morelos, Kemar Roofe and Jermaine Defoe. Souness’ time was nearly 40 years ago, football is a bit different now.

Jim Milne
>>157089055

All 4 challenge with this team. Aberdeen brought in aguy who never managed in Scotland. Is challenging with a team that finished closer to the bottom than the top, sold their top scorer and is challenging now. Yet somehow those 4 managers wouldn't be challenging with this current squad🙄

Hendi

Btw a point on slowing play down. Propper is so lacking in confidence with his left foot that 90% of the time he opts to turn and play a square ball with his right to Souttar, so the opportunity to move the ball forwards down the left hand side is continually lost. A proper (pardon the pun) left sided CB is needed.

James McSween

Andy and Alan polishing a mediocre turd.

Jim Milne
>>157140242

Although lately Raskin and Barron have developed a great hardworking partnership if Clement had his way Lundstram would still be here and Barron wouldn't be a rangers player IMO. See 1st game against Hearts where he moaned he didn't have Lundstram who was shocking from February onwards.

Martin Sutherland

Have to disagree with the lads I’m afraid. I don’t see these signs of progression. I think the lack of defeat this week has clouded the judgement. On Tav, his interview showed the manager is telling him a different tail. Obviously to keep him onside. Everyone and their Granny knows he’s been poor and should be nowhere near the cup final starting 11.

Mark Harvey
>>157089651

The leagues top scorer is Mcgregor who has 6. Would you take a bet on Raskin, Barron and Diomande getting 6 league goals combined by May? It's a massive issue.

Stephen

Don’t really agree with the signs of progress either. Yes, it is enough to win this game but if we play like that in the cup final we will be 2 down by half time as usual so really we will be back to where we started. If we are judging this game in isolation we should be looking to win this more than 1 -0. St Johnstone were really poor.

David MacT
>>157089055

Souness and Eck would have this team challenging now or decades ago when they were managing? Keeping in mind the financial (and political) landscapes between us and them was very, very different. Gerrard however wouldn’t, not a chance. He had a team filled with players such as Aribo, Morelos, Arfield, Davis, McGregor, Goldson, Helander etc and still finished miles behind a Neil Lennon managed Celtic team.

Jim Milne
>>157089055

Imo all 4 of them today would be challenging with this team, and also able to beat them in a meaningful game.

David P
>>157069703

Hopefully mate, I do fear that it's now too far gone for PC. I don't think the belief or goodwill from the support exists for him now. It's interesting what you say about the negativity in the summer. I think you're right, when I think back that anticipation and excitement for a new season just wasn't there for me during that time. I've tried to put my finger on it and I think it boils down to the "rebuild" not being the size or standard I'd hoped for. As you say though Hopefully we're starting to get the building blocks in place now and a cup win this month would help to change the mood 👍

Spoon

It’s bad enough the Club gaslighting us with rebuilds without the podcast loyal joining in! All joking aside Andy started off saying if we had created and taken more chances we could have won comfortably, a truism of the highest order but for far far too long we don’t and we haven’t spanning managers and squads. If you ignore all the really bad bits it’s ok seems to be the message to the malcontents and while I admire that gumption I can’t buy into it. I get personality comes into things but we are really scraping in the dirt for positives here, ignoring huge long term issues and even at that the positives aren’t that positive. The biggest issue for me is and remains the set up and style of football. Not only is it ineffective it’s dreadful to watch and I’m well beyond taking positives out of seeing Bajrami, Danilo or Igmane miss sitters just because it’s not Dessers and that makes it ok. The lack of goals in this team goes back some time, ineffective guys like Kent were lauded as ‘danger’ men when they were lucky to get you 5 goals a season. Midfielders like Lundstrum were ‘bossing’ games contributing more in terms of cards than goals. This week Hagi did very little effective but as we haven’t seen him in a bit he gets a pass where the real positive move would have been to try Bajrami who looks demoralised out wide through the middle. If being realistic is intolerable to some then scroll past. I don’t sense the optimism is widespread that this team is set up well or has a plan that will work, far from it and Clement bar winning a treble in some form of 80s rags to riches movie plot isn’t the man, 3, 4, 5 games in a row won’t change that. Much like nobody really believes this board are any use I suspect the majority are at best 50/50 on Clement and confidence in the team, club and whole mess is gone. The one positive, and to me this actually makes things worse, is that I think the squad is far better than this and the next guy will not only get a bounce they will have a good base if they set things up properly. There are some excellent young players who I just hope aren’t dragged down by the manager and can kick on. There is however some amount of dead wood lying around along with the career injured. If you just look at Saturday, if you ignore the terrible build up play, ignore the isolated strikers and lack of clear cut chances, if you don’t look at poor set pieces, pedestrian passing and no cutting edge, if you focus purely on the score it was a decent game. Otherwise I genuinely think the boys are ripping the P. This mantra that’s pushed about games in isolation doesn’t work for the majority of football fans. We don’t think game to game, people don’t have fishlike memories and can’t remember that they have seen the same issues time after time. Or maybe it’s just me, my wife would probably say it was just me to be fair.

Andy McGowan
>>157178874

Gaslighting?! 😂 Dramatic much? . All we said was that there were some things esp 2nd half that were going better than previous weeks.

Andy McGowan
>>157151122

All we said was that turd was less mediocre than previous weeks, we basically spelled it out. No one said we were Brazil 1970

Spoon
>>157178874

The first half of my comment was lighthearted Andy, always enjoy your opinions and respect your views. A brief joke before disagreeing with the substance of your view, no more. No offence intended, even if I fundamentally disagree on your take. Read my comment as a jibe not a missile bud. I don’t think either half was good by any measure, just my opinion of course, part of a larger problem with how we normalise not being very good as ok.

Spoon
>>157089651

Agree with your main point, however that season our primary weapon was not conceding chances more than prolific scoring. The question then is, what is the issue? Is it personnel or set up ? For some it’s just about the 9 but I don’t see it that way. The system and squad has to get you goals you can’t put the onus on one guy. If it’s not on one guy then it’s a system issue in terms of chance creation or a coaching issue in terms of ball use. You could argue we make enough chances that a good striker scores more of them. Not for me, we have seen three strikers struggle to convert whatever we are calling what we do into goals regularly. You also then have a single point of failure where a guy gets injured or drops form and the replacement doesn’t have the quality to keep the output up, for me that’s a flawed plan. Ultimately this has gone on for some time, it’s been years since we had a guy who scored consistently domestically or the output from middle to front to offset a solid striker with lower numbers. The bigger issue for me isn’t that we aren’t scoring enough goals, which ties into the football is turgid, but that the manager doesn’t even seem to be working towards a solution that’s realistic. The clubs squad building has been terrible for about a decade or more, board failings, exec failings with DOF or recruitment teams bringing in expensive mediocre players and most recently the wrong players being brought in that don’t suit Scotland by and large. Even those who have been bright and effective like Barron, Raskin, Jefte and the like aren’t goal threats in this system. It’s ok for older bears who have had the success and decadence years to tell those younger ones to hush and just accept the poor quality we see this season, watching in the 80s was ok as I got the 90s, the 00s were a mixed bag but we were good to watch and had talent but what have we had since? If you’re a younger supporter your Rangers life is different, the highs aren’t as high but you have had some amount of lows. Reality is for some it’s fine to say we will be back and believe it, it’s ok to say stay calm and wait. Meanwhile the appeal of the club for future generations will wain, they won’t see it as duty almost like some of us do to moan but stay with it, they will find something else to do instead of spending a fortune to be told ….. “this time next year” or “stop expecting too much it’s a rebuild”. Nobody has the patience for anything in modern life, that’s a stark reality. This is an entertainment industry that’s failing on its whole purpose for being and being told that season after season needs to just be a write off with no lessons learned or changes to approach isn’t a great retention strategy. It’s not, regardless of how it annoys some, mandatory to be happy with something you feel isn’t delivering or working that you invest in, financially, emotionally or simply with time. People will be disgruntled and let you know if that’s how they feel, there’s no honour in being satisfied and moan than it’s somehow offside to be negative. Each year there has been another ‘and’ added to the pile of problems that’s reaching critical mass since we returned to the top flight. This year the squad still has issues, and the board had issues and the stadium had issues, and the manger has had issues and on it goes yet we don’t seem to be learning from it. My worry is that when the manager change comes we again cast the net far and wide, get another cookie cutter vision and then chase it only to return to where we are again….just a bit more scunnered. If those with the warm glow who are happy to write off concerns and play down discontent really want people to buy back in and see the positives I think they need a more compelling case, with evidence we are actually changing how we behave as a club and perform as a team. The stats don’t lie in terms of goals, wins, points and while some claim stats are the worst form of argument I would contend that it’s the only argument that matters as ‘feels’ are purely subjective and personal. We need to set up better and create a far better balance of control to attacking output. Lots of SPL teams ‘control’ large parts of the games by being defensive and sitting in, they carry little threat and don’t win much. With our budget, facilities and squad potential we should be doing far better than 0-1 at St Johnstone via an own goal. If that’s negative God help us.