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Flagship - Misery in Motherwell (Patreon)

Published:
2024-12-30 16:57:42
Imported:
2026-06
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Content

David and Cammy go over another horror first half and ask what the future holds for Philippe Clement.

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Comments

dotty 84

Raskin, Cerny and Igamane come on and wanted to change the game. Clement has his issues and the lineup isn't what I'd have chosen but FFS the players need held accountable.

Douglas Innes

Tav coming out and saying the players are not tired surely its his way of throwing Clements post match comments back in his face ....... i see a squad at odds with their manager in what he's saying and how they feel

BlueJay

Another surprise reminder it is actually monday 🙂

Christopher Todd

See if I'm Brendan Rodgers, I'm playing a half arsed team and aiming for a draw. Our board would genuinely see that as progress and keep clement in a job. That's how our board work, serial fucking losers. That's a good thing for celtic.

Jordan McKay

Happy new year David, Cammy & all podders. I’m still not convinced that sacking the manager is going to solve anything. We’re going to be here again at the end of 2025.

Jim Milne
>>159769911

Do you not think that a manager who has spent £20m should yield better away performances in the space of the last 8 months? It's our worst away record in 46 years.

Jim McCutcheon

Seems like they are waiting till after the game against them or they have totally buried the heads under the sand and hoping we get the victory and maybes all is forgiven 🙃, he has to go we can't go on with this set up, not too mention another fire sale with the duffers in the squad is required 💁‍♂️, we play the waiting game again, thanks David & Cammy all the best for the new year 👊👍

Jim Milne
>>159768154

Raskin started the game. The other two did have an impact but we still gave up east opportunities to Motherwell due our piss poor defending, and the way Clement has the team setup. This 4-2-3-1 nonsense doesn't work in away grounds in Scotland, at least not with these players. So until he has the players he wants to play this system he should be playing a system that works in the meantime. Although I'm not sure he knows another system.

JM

The timing of games meant that it was unlikely the board would move before Thursday’s match. Also if you subscribe to the theory that January windows are limited and that he’s done ok in the Europa then in the medium term what benefit is there to sacking him mid season ? Until the club has a replacement tapped up there isn’t much benefit of chopping him other than to make everyone temporarily feel better.

JM
>>159769831

If you were Brendan Rodgers you’d be in the huff that nobody was touting him for any EPL jobs ….

dotty 84
>>159768154

Players fighting for a win has beena problem at Rangers even under Gerrard. It's still the main issue. Everyone goes on about formation, it's not the issue. These players can play most teams off the park but battling in away games is what we lack. We had players pushing bigger and more athletic Spurs players off the ball that needs transferred to these away matches.

Jordan McKay
>>159769911

Transfer spend has nothing to do with the manager. The squad is arguably the worst it’s been since we got promoted again. I am by no means saying he is absolved of all responsibility.

Jordan McKay
>>159769831

It’s actually baffling to me that he didn’t seem to be in the conversation at all for the two recent positions that opened up down south. I get that you can’t read too much into domestic performances but their performances in Europe have been half decent at least. I’d be amazed if West Ham don’t look at him when they sack Lopetegui.

Kenneth Mackay

Clement's record is indefensible. There's no sign of any sort of rebuild being under way, just 11 guys, whoever they are, week in week out who don't know what their job is and don't seem to care.

Christopher Todd
>>159769831

People may have missed my point here. I hate that crusty lipped arrogant freak show as much as yous. But if I'm their manager that's in my head. "I want them to keep that clown in charge so let's give them the illusion of progress and their board won't sack him" You get what I mean?

Lee

The biggest issue for me is his style of play (or lack there of). We need to be front footed & attacking. Which should in theory help with player trading as well (more goals etc). Rather than this overally pragmatic needing everything to go right. Clement comes across like a football dinosaur IMO.

Jim Milne
>>159769911

Transfer spend 100% has to do with the manager. They were players he wanted, and if the squad is arguably the worst then that falls on the managers shoulders too. We purchased Cortes on a loan to buy when he was injured, when we could have walked away from the deal. Pröpper is a terrible defender. That's a Clement signing. If it was up to Clement we'd have renewed Lundstram and likely wouldn't have signed Conner Barron. I am still of the opinion this squad is better than it's being used. Both in formation and in tactics.

Jim Milne

The players have stopped listening to Clement. I've checked out listening to his press conferences and interviews. I can't imagine the pish he must talk to the players and having to listen to they everyday. In saying that they should be professionals. I've been in workplaces where people don't listen to others because they tell lies or constantly contradict themselves, and that's Clement right now.

Maca82

Weary of the Clement chat we know he’s here for the foreseeable so we need to just write it off. Appreciate too late for the pod but who out there had group chats etc predicting VAR would be favouring the ‘Ranjurz’ in the media within a week or two? Admittedly Butland was soft as s**t but not even the most contentious issue of the day but here we are. Coordinated from Collums wee smirks after the cup final through to this with the usual suspects in the media handed the script in advance. Never been more disillusioned it’s us vs everyone and we won’t win on or off the park as it stands. Aside from supporting our team what’s the point 🤷‍♂️

Vanb bryceter

After today's presser it sounds like he has got the season. If that's the case the transfer window will be very interesting. I don't know what to think anymore we have been decent in Europe and in patches in the league. However the team selections and Clements pressers are bewildering as they are uninspired. It's going to be a long season I fear 😨

Chaz Laird

This is long winded but seems relevant to the refs narrative going on today. It wasn’t clear to me regarding the Butland debacle whether Clancy awarded the foul and VAR agreed with it or whether Clancy awarded the goal and VAR overturned it…..I couldn’t quite tell….. What was clear however was that before the corner was taken Clancy warned Watt (I assume) to not impede the keeper….if Clancy warned Watt beforehand and called the foul there can be no complaint from anyone as far as I’m concerned…. If Clancy warned Watt and still gave the goal only for VAR to overturn it…..I guess that would be no real surprise either give that he’s a cheating @&$)…

Graham Jones

Yeah sure,, lets just dump another manager for the sake of it. I just think we’ve been down this road again and again, and it doesn’t work. We have locked ourselves into a cycle every year, and it has to stop or we’ll be back here doing the same next year. The one time when we didn’t do it, which was Stevie G, was partly down to us all being starstruck, and we liked the idea that he was our manager. It took him five transfer windows before he got it right, and over the next period of four windows after that the board proceeded to screw up our transfer policy. We did have a strategy under Gerrard, but it wasn’t fully matured when they cut the funding. It relied on getting into the Champions League to realise maximum exposure to strengthen our hand in transfer sales. That never worked out thanks to shortsightedness, and we are now in a situation where we have a good manager, who is siting trying to develop a young squad that simply lacks any consistency. It’s not that they aren;t a good team, it’s simply that we have little patience for this sort of strategy. They either change strategy and don’t use this business model that we all agreed was the way we had to do it, or they stick with it and ignore us until it does start to turn around. There are no quick fixes here, and there are no real villains either. Clement should’ve had his first win and another trophy in the cabinet a couple of weeks ago, but he was robbed of that glory by incompetent referees. What I would say is that his European performances have been there, and he has navigated the Europa really well up till now. If we could just get something down at Old Trafford it would give him more or less guaranteed money to go and use if they can get any deals done this coming month. I don’t’ see the point in another sacking, because I don’t think he is the main culprit for us being where we are. In many respects, if he had any sense he would’ve walked away at the end of the season and let them get on with it, because this is a mess he didn’t have a hand in.

Jim Milne
>>159768154

I'd argue in the big games the players are motivated by themselves and the home support especially against Spurs. The manager has a responsibility to motivate them too and I can't imagine the pish he must talk behind the scenes when you hear what he says in public. I'm not dismissing the fact the players should be able to motivate themselves for away games, but is his message even getting across? I don't understand half the stuff he says because he constantly contradicts himself.

dotty 84
>>159768154

A manager has to get players motivated to gain points on our rivals? Absolutely not and I'm fed up to back teeth defending players on 20k plus a week thinking turning up is enough. I generally never listen to what managers say. It's too political and unless I know what's happening behind close doors it's all mouth service to serve media duties.

Andy Forgrieve
>>159787357

As frustrated as I am with our current state I agree with you Graham. Under no circumstances is he blameless here but he's had some tough cards dealt too on and off the field (board screw ups and injuries in particular). I wish our style of play, in particular our tempo, was better and the long balls drive me crazy but I also don't think he can resolve some of this until he's had a couple more windows. A couple of center backs that are strong, fast, resilient and can play the ball out are urgently needed and would solve a lot of our issues in my opinion (and improve Butland's game). Koppen has had some success in the transfer market and hopefully is learning more on the job in terms of what works in our mad league. Our rivals have had success too but they've also had a LOT of duds - transfer business success will never be 100% as there's too many variables at play. If we could get 2 successes out of 3 going forward and off-load some of the players that have ran their course we will be in a much stronger state. It's tough to be patient but if we're honest with ourselves, it's what we were expecting for this season (but of course hoping for more).

Jim Milne
>>159768154

It's the responsibility of the entire playing staff, coaches, managers and players to stay motivated. I get what you're saying to a point but we don't have the type of players who motivate themselves constantly. If they did we wouldn't have a 14pt gap. It's the managers responsiblity to motivate the players when times are hard irregardless of wages. Do you think Pep wasn't motivating the players trying to get them out of the shit 12 game run City were on? Maybe the word inspired can be used too. He can't string a coherent sentence together in any interview without contradicting himself, I'd guarantee he is the same in the training ground and dressing room and likely why the players don't know what he wants them to do half the time.

Tom Smith

I feel I'm the only one on the planet that has sympathy for Philippe. I understand many reasons why folk are wanting shot of him, but I also feel I have many reasons why we cant or shouldn't get rid just now. It's certainly not all his fault. Between players, injuries, poor officiating and the shit show in the boardroom, he has just not had the rub of the green that would have changed a lot of the narrative and points, which would take a bit of the scoreboard pressure off us. Yes, he makes mistakes with his line ups, and I feel some of that is caused to the injuries he inherited from previous seasons, regime, poor decisions. I worry that changing managers every year is causing just as much instability as buying poor players. The budget we have for new players is nit as much as them, and we are in a hole trying to compete with them and make amends for our previous years errors in the market. It just seems like there's so much more than the manager to fix. I appreciate everyone has their own views, and I might be in the big minority. But I'm frustrated that we are just repeating the same thing over and over every season.

CJT
>>159795877

Not the only one. All the points you make are very valid. He’s been given a really difficult job. I really wanted him to be the guy and for his first year thought he would be but Rangers managers shouldn’t keep their job with results we’ve seen in that 9 months. What’s gone on before with the board, previous manager selection, recruitment etc isn’t fixable. It’s gone. What we do going forward is all that matters. Where we are needs a decision about the manager. My view, very recent I accept, is the last 2 performances are the norm for him. The better ones are outliers. That’s about it and it’s not good enough. We don’t have the finance infrastructure or talent they do across the city but we dwarf everyone else. We should regularly beat them home and away, transition or not. If we do we’re a damn sigh closer to top than what we are. We’ve gone on for years about players but really only Tav is left and it can’t be all his fault. Manager then has to look at himself and he can’t think recruitment or team selection has been good. He came in with a lot of experience but I’m not seeing where that is being brought to bear on decisions since March. Just think he’s the wrong guy at this time. Been there myself and been moved on, also needed to make decisions about others I’ve been responsible for I hated making but sometimes it just needs done. That doesn’t mean changing managers every year is good practice, just need to accept this is the right decision for now and make a better selection for longer term stability thereafter. Just the way it is I think.

Rose Mcloughlin

All the best in 2025 to David..all the podders and all the heart and Hand Family...and as you said David I am proud to be a blue nose not because of the Manager or the team we have just now..they are just a tiny part of our clubs wonderful History and what we have achieved....even at our lowest point in 2012 we stood proud and fought our way back..we are still doing so today..so look at where we are now to where we were in 2012...so think about where we can reach in another 10 yrs...Celtic have got ahead of us not because they were brilliant but because we were not there..but slowly we will catch up...so right now I love to go neck and neck with them..but dont fall apart if they beat us...we need to concentrate on beating the rest of the league and grow stronger...if we hate Managers and players because celtic beat us we play into their hands by putting too much pressure on the players...all I ask is that they show a fighting spirit...so lets go forward together ...all the best in 2025.

KMc

I just don’t see the benefit in limping through the rest of the season with him in charge. In my opinion, it isn’t going to get any better and it’ll only drive crowds away and further erode the relationship between the club and fans. No one’s wanting to go and watch that. I’ve never really subscribed to the ‘Can’t keep sacking managers’ take. We only keep sacking managers because the guys our previous leaders hired weren’t very good. Those previous leaders - weren’t very good, particularly with football related decisions. I’d like to think with the change in management internally, we will show a bit of intent and employ a replacement until the end of the season while the search for the new manager starts. I’ve said it before but there is a lot of easy wins on the football side for whoever takes the job.

Nikky Cairney

Sorry guys but how can it be that he has to go and that he can’t turn it round? But also he needs to win both games this week? It does not matter whether we win both games 3-0. He’s not the man for us, he’s an absolute clown. Absolutely pointless going on with him any longer. Spoke to so many fans this week who aren’t up for this game on Thursday and not some to he fear of getting battered which is a possibility. But because it’s not relatively meaningless. It’s like the game Michael Beale won when Cantwell scored except 4 months earlier because this baldy clown has us 14 points behind in December.

Nikky Cairney
>>159795877

You’re in the minority for a reason. He picks the wrong team most weeks. He talks shite and contradicts himself in every interview he does. He can’t beat Celtic. His away record is embarrassing. We are 14 points behind after 17 games. Our football is horrendous to watch. He makes excuses every time we drop points but never takes any blame himself. Not sacking him just because we’ve sacked manager before isn’t a reason to keep him if it’s so obvious he’s not the right man.

David

I find it baffling that some people think it would be wrong to sack clement, we could be 17 points behind at the start of january thats indefensible, how is he any different to the last two managers considering hes double the points behind than they were and he has spent money on propper, diomande, cortes, bajrami, igamane etc

C. J

Clement is the wrong man for the job & our club has become a genuine laughing stock. We’re a diddy team in the eyes of everyone.

Heart and Hand
>>159807002

The two positions are not opposed - we both think he’s not the man but others may disagree. If, however, he is to have any chance of turning it round, he has to win both games. He still may not after that but to have even a slim chance, he needs wins.

Nikky Cairney
>>159807002

I’d say this would just be repeating what’s happened all season. Sure on post match pods after Aberdeen most said it was time to go. He won a few games and it was fine again. Then after Dundee Utd the same. And the cycle repeats. This is what Clement is now and getting hooked in if he somehow manages a win on Thursday to go from 14 points behind to 11 points behind would be madness in my opinion.

Gavin Foster

When I heard Andy wasn’t there I decided to switch off after 3 minutes because you’ve been told this is it for the season. If the new ceo decides to change the previous board decision I’m behind it. You are arguing against club policy.

Andrew Hunter

We're having the conversation about changing the manager mid-season for the third time in three consecutive sessions. It's thoroughly depressing.

Craig scullion

The header from Sterling is day one defending stuff, he headers to the edge of the box when he has Ridvan square to him!

Duncan McKnight

Long and short of it is that no Rangers manager will survive very long if they can't find a way to regularly beat the rest of the SPFL dross. You go into games now, even at Ibrox, thinking that the opposition always have a chance and that's untenable really.

Heart and Hand
>>159807002

Yes but just because we say something doesn’t mean it’s the only possibility 😀 There’s a big difference from opinion and likely reality.

JM
>>159769831

Think the Spurs Ange experience is dampening that somewhat.

Andy

I think we’re at the stage where we are so far behind Celtc, that it’s a two stage process to get back on top. We could do worse than replace Clement with McInnes. At least we’ll be organised, competitive and and beating the other 10 clubs in the league. Once we get back to that stage, we can then look at what is needed to overtake the mhanky mob. Right now we are a shambles. Uncoached and unprepared but we do have good players in a squad which should be achieving more with the right leadership. We need a manager who gets what Scottish football is about. We’ve had too many people in leadership positions over the last decade who see 4 points out of every 6 as a good return.

Spoon

Slightly different take gents, bear with me. I dont have an issue with rotation or change in lineup, I also don’t have an issue with starting a second string hoping you do indeed get to rest the first choices who need the break. What I do have an issue with is then setting those guys up to fail, again. I get the logic that if you can use the squad you try and do that, if he goes 2-0 up with his first 11 then maybe some of those he has on bench don’t need to play. He must be scarred from his early tenure where he had more unfit than fit so I get the sports science line, to a point. My issue is and remains what is he trying to get them to do as what his plan is for domestic games doesn’t work. The striker again is looking isolated, yes in the first half Dessers misses a chance but so do the other strikers, in fact Danilo’s was one of the worst attempts on goal from a free header I have seen. Second half Igamane was indeed the difference, but too often for me he was wide and crossing to nobody as he had vacated the 9. Not labouring it as there were numerous failings in the game set up wise but whatever he thinks his plan looks like in his head doesn’t translate to effective on the park. It’s not and has never been about personnel to me that’s a red herring. Yes we have quality issues, yes so,e players lack a component that makes them annoying or frustrating but in Scotland there are very few top players or guys who aren’t covering up weaknesses in this league. What a good coach does is blend the team and tactics to make the most of what they have, he just never ever does that. Igamane was excellent but we have seen some recent set ups where even he has looked marginalised due to poor tactics or set up. It’s to his credit that he did look so impactful yesterday as I didn’t like seeing him drift out of the width of the posts knowing that there would be nobody really filling the gap he left. He is indeed the bright spark in the team however and we should be getting him into a pair asap and putting proper support around him. Not the fan of Cerny you guys are but he does contribute in flashes in fairness to him, we have been stung with judging a loan on a small sample of games before. If the clubs best reason for keeping Clement is “we said we were committed” when all of the evidence tells you that you’re backing a losing bet, then he’ll mend them. You never set ultimatums like that in business as you have no idea what’s coming or how things change, sticking with someone who is failing just because you said you would. Those who gave the ridiculous extension are gone, instead of doubling down on stupidity real leadership would be to admit it’s not working and implement a plan to fix things.

Chris Watson

Just listened to the press conference and I was actually shouting at the tv the amount of bull he is talking now is unreal he thinks the fans are stupid and are not seeing what we are seeing