Home
Creators
Search Recent Random
Posts
Search DMs Popular Hash Lookup Tags Random
Importer
Import FAQ
Register Favorites Keys Review DMs Logout
Community
Telegram ThePornDude
Home Creators Posts Import Register Favorites Logout

Dominant - A Joy To Behold (1988/89): Part 3 (Patreon)

Published:
2022-03-29 06:00:03
Imported:
2026-06
Tags:
haven't archived this post yet. have a subscription? use the importer!

Downloads

  • A Joy To Behold Part 3.mp3

Missing 1 full-res photo, 1 file, as this post has not yet been imported.

Content

The winter of 1988/89 saw a dramatic sale of the club, Graeme Souness becoming a player/manager/director and another big win over Celtic at Ibrox. Andy and John are with Martyn to make sense of all of that as well as the April Fool's Day win at Parkhead, the first for nine years.

Files

Previews only

Comments

Tom McDavid

Remember the Tannadice replay well. Stood by myself in the home end trying to look Dundonian 😇

Callum Dinnen

Do you think the (spoiler alert) Scottish Cup Final defeat is the major contributer to why this team is so under-rated? A League and League Cup double after all was something we'd done before in 86/87, and would go on to do a further 3 times in this era, so in terms of pure achievement doesn't stand out because we manage that particular double 5 times in the Souness/Smith era, whereas a treble would have made this side legendary given the rarity of such an achievement. I feel that a Scottish Cup Final defeat (maybe combined with the 3-0 loss to Aberdeen on the final day) means the season ends on a bit of a downer; compare that to 91/92 where it's still just 2 domestic trophies (oh to say that now), but the seasons ends with a trophy being lifted, and it's the cup we haven't won in 11 years into the bargain.

Martyn Ramsay
>>80775278

Almost certainly a big factor - trebles don’t come often - but I think the whole Souness story is over-shadowed by the Big Bang start and his departure. I think we’ve lost an appreciation for the middle - especially the balance of that side from 88-90, maybe even into 91 - and that’s a shame.

john cowden
>>80775278

I think the lack of progress in Europe was a downside. We were the biggest team in the uk with a host of England internationals . Yet 87/88 aside we never made it past Xmas under Souness

Martin Boyd

That was a great side not underestimated by me. I liked Sterland never let us down in his short time . Made my way up to Scotland for the Dundee Utd game only to find out 300m from Ibrox it was off 🤣. No surprise the rain was biblical didn’t bother going up for the rearranged game . I was sitting on the plane after the Parkhead game and it was delayed for the Celtic team coming on, they were off to Dubai for the British cup. Empty seat beside me , I was praying it wouldn’t be Grant or some other reprobate . Turns out it was Bonnar , very decent bloke told him I thought he had saved Fergusons shot, “ So did I”, was the reply. Spoke about fishing and had a beer or two with him on the way down.

Steve Clark

The night Murray took over I watched a program on stv/Grampian about that take over and Alec Cameron who was a journalist at the record and reporter on scotsport said “rangers are the biggest club in Britain right now and they will win the European cup in the next few years” The put up a graphic on crowds to show we had the biggest crowds in Britain

CRAIG CASSELLS

Was at Parkhead for that win over Celtic in April in 1989, my first ever victory at their midden in 10 years of going there. I missed the victory over them on 23 August 1980 as my twin sister got married that day and my parents demanded I attend the wedding over the football.

Colin Carstairs

Domestically we were fantastic..In Europe it was a struggle post Xmas

Scott Christian

Been combining these with watching sections of the season review videos, such great memories 👍👍

Andrew Meldrum

On the expectations of Murray as a new owner, there wasn't the expectation then that owners put money in. Sugar daddy owners like Abramhovic, the guy who owned Gretna and the travel agent who put Motherwell into admin didn't happen then. Owners ran the club, but I don't think they tended to spend their own money to try and grow clubs as has become the case?

Martyn Ramsay
>>80804818

This is correct, in Britain at least. More of a social status, love for the local club kind of tie to stewardship. The more hands on model probably grew from the egotist approach of Berlusconi, Tapie etc. and most recently there have been obvious political reasons for bringing a club up to the level of their competitors.

Scott Watson

I can't thank you all enough for this show. Growing up in the 90s I obviously knew the broad strokes of the story of the era but it's only listening to the detail of it now that I realise just how much of the context I've never fullly appreciated Fabulous stuff, keep up the great work gentlemen!

Dougie Jones

This is a brilliant listen. Fantastically rich in colour and details from the time that I'd forgotten or only dimly been aware of. Great stuff.

John Myles

Loving this pod brings back great memories . Not so great queuing from 5 in morning for my Dundee Utd replay tickets and not in the 1st hundred in the que

Roy McKendrick

That Dundee United cup game at Ibrox was a brilliant game. Great memories.

Ross Matheson

It's a very interesting debate about Murray's arrival. His actions since have (rightly in many ways) skewed a lot of it. Andy's right when he says it was about ego. My old man worked for him around the time at Mimtec in Livingston. STV were in doing some filming and he'd asked Murray what the programme was about. "It's about millionaire's in Scotland" Now, it wasn't really. It was about businesses and young business types. For him though, it was all about the status of being rich and in the news. It was all status. Just on the "self made man thing" too, was it not the case that his dad was a very rich man and Murray was basically handed his fortune to start with anyway? Souness being made director helped smooth the process for sure. Given his standing with the Rangers support, it helped the transition. While John's right to point out that there was a similar previous situation with Struth / Bowie, the set up of football clubs was different at that point. While we weren't quite at the properly modern situation we know now, back in 1989, it wasn't quite the same as the 1947 change.

Martyn Ramsay
>>80849485

The Murrays were a well-to-do family for sure but it wasn’t like the Trumps for example. He developed it well and was a genuine bright light in business in his own right. If course it was for ego as would be the norm as the 20th C transitioned into the 21st.

Martyn Ramsay
>>80849485

Souness helped I would agree and his directorship was nothing like what we had seen before in terms of that level of personal investment. It’s not about being a director, it’s stumping up £600,000 in 1988.

Ross Matheson
>>80849485

On Murray, yes, very much steered in the right direction initially, I think. It wasn't that he came from an impoverished background and lifted himself off the streets in a rage to riches story and was "self made". I always remember hearing that he was driving a Ferrari in the accident. That's not to downplay the seriousness of it or the impact it had on him in any way but in his early 20s he clearly wasn't your average person just trying to succeed having left education. He was on a rung above most at that point. Had always just thought the startup came from family money rather than him being a visionary.

Ross Matheson
>>80849485

On Souness, absolutely. You could barely buy the most expensive goalkeeper in the World for that level of cash at the time. I hadn't looked at the investement from his point of view. Was very much only considering how it looked to the fans. It's a big old commitment...particularly given how quickly things then changed.

Scott Christian

Another really fascinating discussion. My recollection of Murray becoming the owner is one of being a bit more excited. Living in Ayr at the time we had been through months of speculation in the local press about his plans to buy Ayr Utd. There was to be a new stadium, heavy investment in the team and targets to reach the premier league within a couple of seasons. They’d just come up from the old division 2 and I think McLeod was the manager at the time, but there was genuine levels of excitement that he was going to put the Honest Men on the map (there was some friction within the board at Somerset Park leading to them rejecting the buy-out in the end, in fact might even have been the extant chairman at the time that personally said no with a casting vote). So I was certainly excited to see that the good times were looking undoubtedly here to stay, and for some time too, at Ibrox. I really understand Souness’s paranoia about injuries, I mean it would be a separate series in itself to cover those from 86-97! Looking forward to the next episode and I guess the opening episode for the summer approaching 89-90 there’s not a lot to discuss!

Martyn Ramsay
>>80856372

Yes the extant Chairman did have the final say at Ayr United. It perhaps shows that Souness was a real driver in the move for Rangers. In other words, stop messing about at that level, if you want get into football then a man like you should go straight in at the top.

Martyn Ramsay
>>80856372

I get the Souness paranoia over injuries too. He’s hit by 3 big ones in 3 seasons plus McCoist and Woods and it just wasn’t a thing for him at Liverpool. The Sterland deal really highlighted that as well as our ability to spend that money just to deal with GS’s fears that Gary Stevens might be next! I’m sure he was sold at profit though and his market trading is never talked about enough.

Martyn Ramsay
>>80849485

Undoubtedly true but he more than made the most of that start is all I was saying. “Self made” doesn’t necessarily mean rags to riches. He wasn’t born a millionaire and there’s no question at that time, he was a successful and sound business operator.

Scott Christian
>>80856372

I wonder what the change was in general around injuries across squads (DUFC were famous for limited player use during their title win (was it 13?). Was there a determination to play through knocks, perhaps better medical science available to advise on longer term injuries (obviously didn’t count for training methods)? Big impact injuries happened for sure (Butcher the obvious example), but the number of muscular/tendon/ligament injuries seems to have rocketed around this time. I wouldn’t have remembered a profit being made on Sterland, outstanding business!

Scott Christian
>>80849485

Murray was from a background level of wealth that’s actually pretty common in and around Ayr (certainly at the time), but certainly not anything hugely noteworthy. There were a lot of other families several steps above in those terms (local house builders, etc.). He absolutely wasn’t a rags to riches story but he did have the drive to take things several levels above his starting point.

Martyn Ramsay
>>80856372

The big injuries were bad luck/violence but yeah for all the modernisation that Souness did bring, the medical staff probably wasn’t part of it. Strange, as he kept himself so fit personally so would have known his stuff to a certain extent. McCoist for example was just run into the ground. Overused. No red zones there! Oh, we would often get our money back and more in England. It’s why the ‘chequebook manager’ thing is unfair.

John Johnston

Dundee United under Jim McClean after studying foreign training methods brought in the warmdown method. Straight after the game players put on their training gear and onto the pitch for some exercises to loosen up the tight legs. The method clearly worked as they had little hamstring injuries etc. Big part of sport science is recovery which is just as important as preparation.

Dougie

Absolutely loved this season. Walters was exquisite. Wilkins class. Sadly injuries to Wilkins and Derek Ferguson robbed us of a deserved treble. A highly underrated Gers team.

Raymond Paxton

Great listening again, so many good memories.