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The Forum - 1992: The Birth of Modern Football (Patreon)

Published:
2023-02-14 07:00:03
Imported:
2026-06
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Content

Martyn is back to fill your Tuesday mornings with discussion, debate, reviews and the odd retrospective from the world of Rangers, football and the wide world of sport. 

In his first episode he sits down with Rob Fletcher, author of a new book out next month about 1992 and the birth of modern football. David and Stuart then join him to discuss the wider impact, how marketing eventually made the product and question whether we can preserve the pre-modern history of the game.

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Comments

Graham McCallum

Excellent show Martin look forward to the next show. Ps top tune as the intro 👍😊

Johnnie Mitchell

Interesting discussion lads, and good to look back now on a period where I was probably oblivious to what was going on around elsewhere because of where Rangers were at this time. Nice to hear the comment also about the ‘ Goal-Lazio’ voiceover which always had me confused to what was actually being said. 😂. Also on the subject of overkill with the amount of live games on tv just now. Man Utd-Leeds was not live last mid week and there was a meltdown.

Graeme Brown

A Rangers slanted, Mundial-esque podcast? Sign me up. Nice to have something to look forward to listening to on a Tuesday.

Ryan Macdonald

So glad you’re back Martyn with a new show👌🏻

Greg

I'd like you guys to cover totti and his fantastic documentary after the brief discussion you had about Kane's wasted career

Andrew Whiteside

Really enjoyed the show. At the time I was too busy enjoying the 90’s to pay attention to what was going on.

Graeme Gilchrist

This is excellent. Looking forward to what’s coming up!

John Davidson

I miss the 90s. I had more hair.

William Scott

Really enjoyed that , although I would argue that since 2008 we are in a post-modern era with the rise of nation states essentially owning clubs

Adam

Intro tune is an absolute topper.

Adam

I caught the tail end of the Italian football phenomena. It was normal to sit down and watch Lazio vs Milan with my auld man on a Sunday. Just as it became normal to sit and watch the Champions League game on ITV midweek. We didn't get Sky for a while, so my exposure to the Premier League wasn't as immediate. Which probably explains my failure to grasp the romanticism that surrounds the Premier League, it passed me by. My main source of exposure to English football was still looked at more through the lens of the FA cup. I wasn't swept up in the initial marketing drive of the PL. It was always Rangers and continental football that firmly held my attention, for the most part. When we got Sky, of course I began consuming more and more English football, but I do think I lack a certain misty eyed adoration of it, that many of my contemporaries had/have. I remember when La Liga became the 'new thing' as Stuart alluded to and it felt cool to say you watched it. Sounds very goofy in retrospect because you can watch any match you want to now, but it did. You had cred among your mates if you kept tabs on multiple different Leagues/teams and were well versed in the players that were hitting high heights. It does make me wonder, what young kids now do to 'stand out', it must be difficult due to the oversaturation in television. What leagues are the 'cool' leagues to claim to be an expert in. I'd imagine it's harder to do now. I remember the Bundesliga had bit of intrigue in the early 2010s, Bayern's grip on the league wasn't as strong and you had the rise of Klopp/Dortmund. Stuttgart and Wolfsburg both winning titles in years prior. It faded fast, especially once Bayern won the treble and Pep Guardiola arrived.

Dougie Jones

Rob and Martyn discussing Gazzetta Football Italia was wonderful. Absolutely loved that show. And totally agree with Martyn about Italia 90 kickstarting this era. A golden age of the marketing of football, but when it was done that well you just had to applaud.

Graham Jones

Thanks for another great show yo listen to. Look forward to reading the s book when it comes out. The Bosman ruling in 1995 had a bigger impact though. It was Bosman that shaped the disparity in footballs finances. Serie A was on another level to the EPL of today. Back then it was the greatest league we had ever seen, and it still stands. All the greatest players on Earth played there, which still isn’t the case in England. The Champions League created the greed among the big five leagues that we see today.

David Clapperton

Don’t know if this is the type of thing you’ll be looking to cover Martyn but always found it interesting as to why Scotland have stopped producing top quality players consistently. What’s the reasons behind it? Was it strikes in the 80s, a more affluent society, clubs introducing academies and schools of excellence or maybe the YouTube and PlayStation effect where kids don’t do outside anymore? Could be some of that, could be none off that, who knows. Also how can countries of similar size, wealth, climate keep producing world class players when we don’t anymore? Great show again and looking forward to hearing how it evolves. 👍🏻

Martyn Ramsay
>>101942679

Bosman certainly created more freedom and opportunity but it didn’t generate a penny. That was still born of the new tv markets that 1992 brought about. Bosman merely opened a door to more of that for players. Also not sure that football formats like the Champions League can create greed. More that it was created by it and principally that of Rangers FC. It was us after all, who started it by wanting more guaranteed income.

Graham Roy

Great show what about a show about famous Dupes! The Brazilian kaiser and his story is probably a pod on its own but other ones like George wears cousin etc…. You could easily link in a few ex rangers! 😂

Alan Byers

Brilliant show lads, looking forward to more of these.

Callum Dinnen

A show on Italia 90 would be really interesting, particularly as a sort of prequel to this episode - I'm just too young to remember it but it would be interesting to get more insight into why it was such a cultural phenomenon compared to other World Cups, particularly as the actual football maybe in hindsight wasn't up to scratch.

Callum Dinnen

On the modern football angle - I'd argue it's the entire 1990s which is such a revolutionary decade. 1992 has the big headline changes - Premier League, Champions League and backpass rule change - but 1996, with the advent of Bosman and the abolition of the 3 foreigner rule, and 1999, which sees the changes to the Champions League to essentially what we have today, are all crucial years in the evolution of modern football.

Callum Dinnen

Would Sky not have the rights to the old First Division through having rights to the EFL?

Martin Davies

Really enjoyed that Martyn. I'm a couple of years older than you and sometimes watch the Big Match Revisitied in ITV4. What never fails to amaze me is the state of the pitches. They perfectly complimented the archaic terraces. One thing that has helped to develop the Engliah game to what we see now is the complete transformation of "the stage". We now look at shiny new stadiums with a bowling green surface that really allow the players to showcase their talents in a way that ballplayers of the 80s and even early 90s could never do.

Martyn Ramsay
>>102022652

Probably, yeah. They’ve obviously no interest in making a big deal about anything pre-92

Martyn Ramsay
>>102020929

We did a bit of a dive into it on Harrigan’s History a few years ago. Those recent docs were good but so few pick up on the television impact of it all and how it opened doors to the 90s. We touched on it a fair bit on Dominant. Maybe revisit it more specifically in future.

Martyn Ramsay
>>102021664

Yeah it was the most transformative decade in the game, certainly post-war but 92 was its big bang I suppose.

Callum Dinnen
>>102021664

92 is the big bang but I think there's an (admittedly English-centric) case that 1996 was even more transformative. There's obviously the impact of Euro 96 at a time where there seemed to be a bit of a cultural awakening in the UK. The tournament from memory also passed off reasonably peacefully - given the rampages all over Europe in the 1980s whenever England or English teams were involved, the idea (unthinkable as late as 1988) that England could host a major tournament without incident I think really puts the dark days of the 1980s firmly to bed. 1996 also sees Newcastle break the world record fee when they sign Shearer - the first time in maybe 15 years that it's an English club setting the agenda as far as big fees go. Transfer fees really ramp up in Italy towards the late 1990s, but Shearer's move is symbolic and is the first clear sign that England will become dominant financially. And of course, you have Bosman, which is the catalyst for the explosion in wages paid to players (I can remember Match or Shoot being incredulous that Ravanelli was being paid £42k a week), combined with the abolition of the 3 foreigner rule which frees up more foreign players coming to England to ply their trade. Arguably it's that rule which had really hindered Ferguson's first great Man Utd side in Europe (and us, but as discussed in Dominant arguably our ship had sailed by 1996). There's a pretty stark contrast in Man Utd's European fortunes either side of 1996.

Martyn Ramsay
>>102021664

1996 is a huge year for sure. You’re in luck btw as that is the next topic for Rob to write about.

Graeme

Great show. Tuesday mornings now sound semi exciting

Gary Brown

Really enjoyed that show Martyn, thanks. Really good work on the interview with the Rob the author, please pass on thanks to him. Just based on the title and a few twitter promos I'd seen I wasnt fussed, first impressions I guess. Oh more about the Premier League! The only game in town 'they' would have us believe. Year zero! It has got up its own arse TBH and those who call it The Prem - oh dear! I do still really enjoy the actual football but the endless punditry and so called analysis is just so 'blah-blah-blah' now, endless stats quoted as absolute fact but the * - nb 'only in Premier League era' omitted. A bit Orwellian 1984! After hearing the author interviewed, the discussion and now understanding what the author wanted to do (and sounds like he's done successfully) I'm more than interested in having a read at Rob's book now. I was at a perfect age of interest & excitement in the 'new league', an exact fit for who they aimed at - 22, a lad in a culture aimed at lads. 1992 is undoubtedly the birth of this era of football as that's when that chapter of football actually started. A new league, promoted by Sky as 'A whole new ball game' and in so many ways it was. I bought into it, what football fan wouldn't. Looking forward to the other episdoes Martyn, its a good format, can take it wherever you want it to go. Great input as usual from the lads, thanks David & Stuart.