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The Forum - Super Leagues (Patreon)

Published:
2023-04-25 06:01:00
Imported:
2026-06
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Content

As the European competitions moves into their penultimate stage, Martyn welcomes James and Ross to discuss a future long beyond June. Can a proper European league system ever work? If not, why not? In 1990 nearly half of the Rangers support welcomed a super league in some format, so why has fan appetite across the continent changed over the last 30 years?

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Comments

Simon

I’ve no issue with a European super league as long as it’s not a closed shop.

Laura McCrimmon

Good discussion this morning I really enjoyed it. Not going to lie the proposed new set of champions league confuses the hell out of me and even some of the things you guys suggested does as well 😉 but the league structure sounds ok but I would still want a European cup competition. For me I've no interest in a super league, I enjoy my domestic football due to the ability to take my kids and for them to see us win things more often...well that's what we hope for even though not happening the now 😂 Of course I would love a European cup but for me I'm just not sure I would be able to give up seeing my team win things on a regular basis!

Lewis Wardrope

Not to rain on your parade James. But could you imagine say the B or C super league league, having its showpiece event (quarters, semis, final) in one city. And it involves say Feyenoord, Lazio, Marseille, Koln, us and another couple of big sides. Do you think a city would be offering to host that? Each team brings 50,000 fans to the city for say a week? It would be mayhem. Instead of a city offering to host and police two sets of supporters, you are potentially asking them to host 8

Ross McKay

Great discussion, especially about our Euro run. I would gladly not win the league for 5 years if it meant we won a European Trophy. Last year's run was the best feeling being a Rangers fan since the run to Manchester in 08.

David_Davy_Dave

Three thoughts Firstly a scenario where your results in Europe dictate what completion/league you are in the following season would help us. Celtic will happily win the Scottish league, go into CL and do nothing to get the money to stay 1 point better than us etc etc etc ever more. A scenario where a good Europa League/Div2 season gets you promoted to the Champions League/Div1 and vice versa seems fair. Second thought is the debate isn’t a European Super League it’s how do big clubs in Spain, Italy etc actually compete with England financially? Rugby is probably the example of what might happen. It has the French league, English league and then a combined league of teams from Ireland, Scotland, Wales, Italy and now South Africa. How cross border leagues work with a champions league is another matter… Final point is that should a super league emerge without English teams they’d HAVE to invite the old firm because they would always want a deal with Sky or whoever for the UK market and we significantly increase the interest and therefore the price

Cameron Fraser

James - the new uefa format doesnt allow any dropdown following league completion. Teams which finish top 24 are guaranteed another two games via knockout whilst those outside are eliminated from Europe all together. I'm not a fan of this because as you guys have mentioned, we have no chance of winning the champions league. The current possibility of collecting the cash, finishing 3rd in the group and having a go at the Europa is a far more appealing format for me. I think most of our fans will get bored of this new setup pretty quickly with nothing to play for other than the cash ultimately.

Martyn Dick

Socialism’ was mentioned a few times… I think the backlash to the recent SL proposal may be a football fans version of socialism, in that it is a protest against extreme capitalism which will favour already-rich individuals (Glazers, Kroenke etc) Of course corruption already exists within UEFA - but that is within a recognised framework where fans and clubs still have a degree of control/leverage. And the competition format is within traditional framework… The recent SL proposal would’ve been like a Morgan Stanley-backed-Wild West in comparison, with a few American gunslingers potentially walking away with billions from the pockets of ordinary fans. Not against a SL - but as long as it benefits the fans and not rich individuals.

Adam

The whole the younger generation of fans not having the attention span for football was a nonsense to be honest. These clubs have priced out working class kids both in terms of stadium attendance and TV viewing figures. Almost all European football is on a pay to view channel and it's not really a surprise to hear viewing figures are down as a result. Although I'd suspect Piracy among young people is much higher. When I was a student and couldn't afford all of the channels to watch European football, I at least had access to ITV which often showed a game per week (usually an English team) but that at least meant I had a viable and legal way to engage with European football. Without having to resort to dodgy streams.

Scott Christian

It’s absolutely true to say that in the 90s the old firm games were literally oneupmanship, and I was certainly in favour of broadening our horizons. At this moment in time we are stuck in the mindset of being (at least) 1 point better off than the other lot, but that’s a direct consequence of the horizons being considerably lowered over the past 11/12 years. I think we absolutely MUST be at the table when it comes to any euro-league. It’s always stated that given a few years down south and with the money we would do well, so anyone with that opinion should have the gumption to put their money where their mouth is and back a move. And it would have to be a move; I agree wholeheartedly that you can’t do both on an annual basis. Great discussion and interesting questions posed. And as a footnote, this new UCL, UEL, UConf format sounds wild!!

Dougie Jones

Really enjoyed this. I've been sceptical about the whole super league idea for a long time because I think it's unfair that the likes of Arsenal or Milan (not to mention Spurs ffs) should have a permanent seat at the top table because of some dim and distant 'legacy'. But as long as any proposal retained some element of jeopardy I'd be open to considering it and Martyn's ideas towards the end about any superleague being the only league do make sense. It would spice up moribund domestic cups beyond belief! As long as a Europa / UEFA cup continued running, with pathways into the new structure, I can see how things could work and potentially be really exciting.

Jamie Cook

Enjoyed this show gents, so hope I can throw a small thought in. I did find there was a slightly absent viewpoint that traditional national league and cup structures have value to the vast majority of non-big club fans. I must imagine that most football fans in Britain support a team that would be utterly irrelevant to those in the purported Super League. And I would suggest that most of them are broadly much happier with their traditions of national league and cup football. As a Rangers fan I have a strong emotional attachment to the Scottish league and our place in it. Football is nothing but an emotional pursuit, and I'd be very surprised if the rank and file would prefer playing Barca and Juve away every year over Aberdeen and Hibs. Every sport and team is parochial in some fashion, ours is no different. I think there's a fetishisation of needing to be valued and loved by big boys around Europe, and whilst I love that we've been present on the stage in recent years, I honestly don't care what Florentino Perez or a Juve fan thinks about the Scottish League. I'd love it to improve, but not at the expense of ripping everything up to fill the pockets of those far above me. Also, if we expect any sort of return (sponsored by an airline for example) I think we might be veering into dreamland boys! A USL (and even the current UCL changes on the horizon) will make football even more expensive than it already is for most people, not more accessible I'd argue.

Callum Dinnen

I think the principal reason fans are reluctant to embrace the idea of a Super League is that it would involve a revolutionary change to the footballing landscape that's never really been done before, and there's never really been a concept put forward that fully explains to fans what a season of football looks like. We're also quite conservative and like our parochial wee rivalries, whether that's Rangers v Celtic, Arsenal v Spurs, Real Madrid v Barcelona or even Auchinleck Talbot v Cumnock. When people struggle to accept that Manchester City v Liverpool is a rivalry despite both clubs competing directly for all the honours in England and Europe for the last 5 years, how much traction do we think a Bayern Munich v Inter Milan or a Manchester United v Atletico Madrid rivalry can get in a Super League? And while Martyn is correct that a league sorts out the men from the boys, leagues can get quite boring as a spectacle if a team gets into a position where it's a foregone conclusion. That's where the Champions League excels as sporting drama - there's no second chances in the knockouts. Man City v Real Madrid in a re-match from last year's semi final is interesting; Man City v Real Madrid in a 4th vs 8th with nothing to play for isn't.

Leslie Hibbert

It feels like they finally got something right with the last couple years with CL EL and ECL, especially with the 3rd place drop downs. And now they're going to bin it for something no one has any idea about or hunger for.

David_Davy_Dave
>>107158895

That’s actually a really good point £ wise CL works Equally I think making play offs and getting new €5m for that and dropping to more competitive EL isn’t the worse either Realistically our best chance of another run is probably dropping from EL groups to Conference by finishing 3rd As you say new system is a very different landscape Agin though illustrates the big problem we have which is we don’t have any influence on decisions. Current set up def suits us but it’s taken decades for UEFA to sort something that helps big clubs like us in small countries. We can’t influence the status quo being retained so for me any invite to a European league needs to be grabbed with both hands

Gary Brown

Great show lads. Enjoyed hearing the differing views on it. Very interesting times ahead in Euro football.