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The Leading Men - Lee Wallace and James Tavernier (Patreon)

Published:
2023-09-10 06:00:02
Imported:
2026-06
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  • Lee Wallace & James Tavernier.mp3

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Content

In the final episode Ash and Trev talk about someone who should have achieved more with us in Lee Wallace. They also dicuss another Captain who's led by example in James Tavernier, our current skipper.

Files

Previews only

Comments

Bob MacCallum

Ash, I agree with you re Tav in Hall of Fame. He doesn't fulfil all the criteria as set out originally. International caps, trophies won, current player status. Has the committee now just abandoned such qualities in order to shoe-horn in players they want in the H of F? Well done on your whole series. Will miss you 2 chatting on a Sunday morning, as I make my wife's breakfast.

Gregg

I think tav deserves his place - I would probably have waited until he had finished playing though. Get the point about criteria - I would bin the caps thing personally. It’s all about what they do for Rangers for me. If he’d been nationalised and played for Scotland for example - would I care? Absolutely not.

Heart and Hand

I think you should have to have finished playing to be included. Just a personal thing I suppose but for me a HoF should be when we look back over a complete career.

Kev Roberts

Well done guys Looking forward to the new show

Jjamess Llairdd

I think the description of the captains are the wrong way around.

David Best

That was a really enjoyable series. Well done to both of you

Grant Sneddon
>>117205622

Hall of Fame criteria has never had to be met in its entirety otherwise majority wouldnt be there. Should he be in whilst Still being an active squad member - No. However, goals, appearances and special recognition for 55 were always going to see him being inducted

David Kiltie

Ash, Trev, well done on a great discussion and enjoyable series. I see the HOF debate will run and run! I think to award only to players after they retire might make the selection process less controversial. You mention Tav being born in Bradford but coming through the youth system of West Yorkshire rivals, Leeds. Many people in Bradford are Leeds fans - when Bradford Park Avenue folded many of their fans went over to Leeds rather than follow bitter rivals Bradford City. I can see that Tav is most likely on the downward trajectory of his career but when he’s gone we will appreciate what he gave us. To think he cost £200k when we have squandered countless millions on poor signings over the last 4 decades. Chris Sutton makes the “serial loser” jibe at Tav. Sutton cost 30 times as much a decade and a half earlier.

Trev @JimmyBell_Loyal
>>117233103

Thanks so much to you David and to everyone’s lovely comments. It’s very humbling to hear and we aim for our next series to be even better. Gotta raise that bar, now back to the gym for me! 😂💪

Ashley_H

Really appreciate all of the kind comments and delighted to hear that people have enjoyed the series

stevan castrissios

This has been great, appreciate your efforts, Trev and Ash. Enjoyed this series of podcasts. For me, reflecting on Gers path and trajectory Tav should be a recent hall of fame inductee. He is. 😁

Doug

While I agree that we should judge our team by the highest of standards, I ultimately believe that Tavernier is in this case, the one exception to the rule. No rangers captain in the modern era has presided over the club challenging from such a despondent position and it's simply unfair to him to not consider this when considering his trophy haul. Now that isn't a complete excuse, particularly in the cup competitions where we absolutely should have at least three minimum as we stand today, if not a couple more. But I think that is in spite of his efforts rather than because of them. Any logical fan knew beforehand it would take time to rebuild and solidify ourselves. That relied on so many factors, including good luck and good decisions. Both of which have lacked at times. When judging Tavernier as an individual I think what is really key is the post-55 seasons. You can forgive the team to a degree as they were building up to regaining the title, but it is after that where I think the real errors and blame come in. We failed to build from a position of strength, which was part of the problem and where the off field blame lies. But it is also true that far too many players let their levels slowly drift away. For some in the league it began immediately the following year, their main performances being kept for Europe (Kent for example). For others the main malaise set in last year, Kamara, Morelos etc. The player, and I think really the only player, who was never in doubt, never rumoured to be leaving, who always came back from a bad patch and never ultimately dropped his levels was Tavernier. Despite his defensive misgivings perhaps starting to show more now, this is still true to a degree today. He's still top scorer, still scoring key European goals that get us through rounds or drag us back into games (even if only for seconds), still leading from the front and impacting the team on the pitch and helping players off it. The proof is in the numbers. Multiple players hit top numbers to make 55 happen. Roofe, Morelos, Kent, Hagi... in addition to Tavernier. In the years since, Tavernier is the only one to maintain those kinds of numbers. The only one to maintain a winning level. This is where for me he earns his stripes, as it were, in terms of the quality of a true Rangers captain. He found reach the level of a winner and then he maintained it, despite those around him faltering. I think there's also something to be said about Rangers in Europe in general over the Gerrard years. It can not be understated how important regaining our reputation in Europe was to rebuilding the club and making us a desirable place for players to want to go again. A point was made about Tavernier growing into the captaincy and I think you see that in his growing performances over the years and how they improved. The Europa League run is the pinnacle of this. He was our talisman, our best player and undisputed leader on the field. Tavernier strode every tie as if he owned it and game after game started us off on the right footing with key goals/pressure penalties. It's easy to say that had we won his place in the HoF wouldn't be in doubt, but frankly I don't think it should be regardless for practically that run of games alone. It was simply magical and a HoF worthy achievement for a Scottish side not just to get to the final, but to get there in such style. To me these individual qualities make him worthy in spite of his trophy case. The lack of trophies being far more to do with the club failing him than vice versa. I mean take away a goal made/scored every 2 games over the past five years... no Europa League run to dine on... it could be a much gloomier picture. I do agree I think HoF is best as a post career honour, so I suppose in that regard I think we should have waited to put him. Ideally he will get his hands on some more trophies before then and with his scoring record he will almost certainly finish our second all time European goal scorer (it's even not impossible he could still beat Morelos if he has a purple patch) and one of our better goal scorers full stop, which is amazing for his position. A true blue at a time we needed one, and a worthy inductee.

Trev @JimmyBell_Loyal
>>117299131

Love your passionate words on Tav. I fear he’s slowing down a bit and god knows what our plan b will be to replace him when the time comes.

Doug
>>117299131

I have two big worries in that regard, one for the team & one for him. The main worry for the team, is that we don’t have those adequate replacements in place to pick up the slack as he inevitably slows his output. If we don’t people will really start to notice how much we miss him. Our mids/forwards absolutely must start having at least three or four, ideally more who can contribute a solid set of goal contributions each, season on season. From a Tav centric view, if we do actually get all that right & we start winning trophies again just as he’s on the way out. I worry that the timing will mean people don’t appreciate everything he’s given us during his time. He could become the ultimate example of ‘right player, wrong time’. Obviously I’m ultimately happy to sacrifice near anything to have us on winning ways again, so if that’s the way it pans out so be it. I do feel though it would be a great injustice for him if it panned out like that. Ideally, I want to see it all click into place for him to win a few things before he retires. A nice treble this year, which is still possible as it stands, would do just nicely!

stevan castrissios
>>117299131

Doug, read your comment twice and your detail trumps brevity regarding Tavernier in this era for Rangers. Thanks.

James Kennedy

This is unlistenable because of the constant cutting off of the audio

Ashley_H
>>117428500

Sorry about that, James. We hadn’t realised it was so bad. It’s been fixed for future shows