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Discussion thread: Biomusicology! (Patreon)

Published:
2026-06-27 01:10:18
Imported:
2026-06

Content

*This episode is published and ready to hear wherever you get podcasts. Let's talk about it.*

Does music exist in nature? Hell yeah it does and Dr. David Bashwiner or University of Arizona at Albuquerque tells us all about rhythms in the moons, creative songbirds, whale song theories, the grammar of music, Baby Mozart, plant bioacoustics and much more. Also your podmother Jarrett Sleeper explains minor chords and scales and things that confused me for years.

Have you listened? What did you think? Any musicians learn anything? Any novices inspired to learn to play an instrument -- or belt out frog songs from a mountain?

Let's talk.

-Podpop, who is back from NewMexico after a fruitful interview mission

Files

Biomusicology (OUR MUSICAL NATURE) with Dr. David Bashwiner - alie ward

Music. Emotion. Brain waves. Whale songs. Toadfish. Distant moons. Loud apes. And why it's worth it to practice piano. Brilliant and warm musician and assistant professor at Albuquerque's University of New Mexico, Dr. David Bashwiner is a theoretical, neuro- and Biomusicologist. Settling into his of

Comments

Stephanie Magnusson

Awesome episode, as a musician andmusc teacher it was a delight!!

Peregrine

Haven’t finished the episode yet but I’m really enjoying it and it’s reminding me why I love music so much💛

bebau

when it cut to the piano intro my jaw dropped. this was me: 😃😃😃

Peregrine

Finished the episode- Loved it! Thanks Dr. David, Alie, Jarrett, and the crew :) I’m glad you mentioned autism because I’ve found that I have a good ear for pitch and rhythm despite not being raised in a musical family. I also have a really good memory for songs and lyrics :) I also sing and hum lots when I’m alone and find it regulates me- my therapist says this makes sense because it stimulates the vagus nerve! Lots of love!! xoxo

Fernando López Haro

I literally came here to say the same. My jaw hit the floor! Such a nice detail to include!!

Susan G

As someone who heard that thing about Mozart music helping you study back in the 2000s, I played Mozart CDs as the background noise for my studying for years. 😂

Janet R.

This was a great discussion It would be helpful during the discussion of the notes to say whole tones instead of whole notes as they are different concepts. Thanks!

DrWhitr

Halfway through the episode and just jumped in to thank Alie for asking all the music stuff that I've never understood. Still don't get major/minor or how to clap in the "correct" rhythms at a show (air clapping for the fitting in). It's so nice to hear someone else talk about that end of the not getting it of music. Love music, dig drums, can enjoy just about every kind of jam, just can't make it or conceive of it like most other humans I know 🥰

FizzyFish

I love how he kept pausing after saying something extremely niche and scientific and pausing apologetically, as if expecting an eye roll or to be called a weirdo. And Alie is like, “uh huh, yep—and?”

Old Desert Lizard

I’m definitely going to have to listen to this one again—there’s a lot to take in, and I want to fully absorb it. I started piano lessons at 13 and organ lessons at 15, but at 72, I’ve lost the muscle memory but still have the technical knowledge. Also curious: is anyone else here experiencing musical hallucinations? I’ve got what feels like a near-constant soundtrack playing in my head, and I’d love to hear how others experience it. It’s not just ear worms – it’s an always playing jukebox with a mix of My Life’s Greatest Hits and Songs By My Brain.

Jin

Loved the episode!!! It made me so happy to hear Podmom’s intro in the bonus episode as well.

Jeanette-o-saur

My brain will fill the space with whatever music it happens to recall when there is no outside inputs. I usually don't notice it day to day because there's so much external input. But back in the day when I did field work and the only input was occasionally listening to my CD walkman in my tent at night, I would just have random songs in my head all day. I think there was a full week where I was humming Vivaldi's Spring on the morning boat ride 😅. It was quite fun to see just what my brain would pop up to the surface when left to it's own devices.

Jeanette-o-saur

I wouldn't call it hallucinations myself. More like unconscious memory cues. And generally speaking if I'm humming or singing, I'm feeling regulated and in a flow state, so I quite like it

Elinor Wahl

This episode was a delight! David's respect for the music of other animals - and his propensity to launch into the songs of other species unprompted - is downright infectious.

John McGrael

Loved this episode!! As a musician/producer/songwriter this easily became one of my favorite episodes, and I especially loved the bit where he said he can’t focus on work when listening to music and uses ANC headphones with noise playing, because that’s definitely me!!

Paula Muldoon

In the midst of the explanation with Jarrett on music and had to jump in with more nuance on A sharp vs B flat. On a modern keyboard which is tuned in equal temperaments, they are the same note. HOWEVER, there are many different ways of tuning instruments to make the octaves work out. These ways are called temperaments, and you can kind of think of them as vibe settings. Equal temperament came in during the late Baroque period - Bach wrote something called the well tempered clavier in 1722. Check out this page on Vallotti temperament for a mind melting description of another temperament. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vallotti_temperament Anyhoo, what this means for string players like me (I’m a professional violinist) is that if I’m playing with strings only, eg a Haydn string quartet, my A sharp and B flat will NOT be the same note. I’ll tune those pitches relative to the key we’re currently playing in as well as the chord we’re currently playing in and also things like the speed of the music (fast music you need to tune semi tones, eg A sharp to B, a little bit closer because the ear perceives things differently at fast speeds). But if I’m playing with a modern piano tuned to equal temperament, then I need to make my A sharps and B flats the same, which makes me grumpy. (On a violin, because we don’t have frets, intonation is FUCKING hard but it also means we have freedom to adjust things around by moving a finger up or down a bit. On a piano, it’s just a button press, with no option to tweak it.) Or to expand on Alie’s analogy, sometimes people call her Mrs. Sleeper but sometimes they call her Ms. Sleeper and sometimes Mrs. Ward and it all depends on the social context. And for a snarky book on the subject, I recommend How Equal Temperament Ruined Harmony and why you should care. https://archive.org/details/howequaltemperam0000duff Ok thanks bye!! Loving the episode

Jayson

I hate to be 'that guy' but I'm super new to the room and the platform. Love the show and I've got a topic request. And.... I don't know what to do with my hands. Please help me! 'Buddy' tier acquired. What's next?

Angelica N AZ

Listening, to Jarrett's bonus episode was awesome. I totally see you two together. I already loved you Allie, now I love you and Jarrett. ❤️🫶🏾🫸🏾🫷🏾

Trapped in a shoutout, and running out of snacks!

Thanks for the aside on chords, I’ve always been confused by those. I used to love music class but my understanding of notes has always been limited to what they look like on the page. Couldn’t tell you what they sound like.

Hilda Z.

After listening to the episode I started playing around on the piano. Something that yall said about helping prevent dementia made me wanna give it a whirl. It was also ridiculously gratifying when I nailed “Ode to Joy” (it doesn’t matter how long it took, I’m still proud!) I also loved the discussion about synesthesia. I definitely have it. I can’t listen to reggae music without seeing disturbing colors and getting an awful taste in my mouth. I see colors and movements with other music, but generally reggae is gives me a sense of repulsion. I wonder if synesthesia is connected to migraines because I get those, too, and listening to reggae music gives me similar sensations.

Dan Makoske

Sound waves are longitudinal mechanical waves and we sense pressure changes as sound “waves”? No height/crest?

Rosie

Yes absolutely! Actually I have to be super selective of podcasts because so many have too much sound scape and it clashes and I can't cope. (Don't get me started on the ones that add video on top. One sensory stimulus at a time, please!)

Rosie

Great episode! I'm going to share with the community choir I'm in so we can all feel smug about looking after our aging brains The oligies theme tune uses the pentatonic scale, which is possibly why trying to "majorize" was a bit challenging. The pentatonic scale is possibly even more ubiquitous across cultures and throughout history than the diatonic scale, but both come about from taking notes from the resonant overtones that David's student can (very impressively!) consciously pick out. Anyone hearing can hear them, but usually they blend to give cues about consonance and timbre, rather than sounding like separate notes. If you play any note and take the overtones in order, and ignore separation by octaves, the first 5 overtones are the notes of the pentatonic scale, and the first 7 are the diatonic scale! Subconsciously, we hear these scales as sounding good, because our ears and brains are hearing the harmonic overtones match up and going "mmm yes this is music". There's also a whole theory of scales and tuning and history you can get into but for that I defer to beloved Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pythagorean_tuning (example audio files included)

Leila Laco

Thanks for sharing! As the ads were playing I saw "presented by Charlotte Ritchie"in the description and was thinking "surely not that Charlotte Ritchie..." (Who I know as an actor on Call the Midwife, BBC Ghosts and Feel Good) But it is her! I loved her as "herself" on Taskmaster a few years ago so will definitely be watching this series :)

jojo

Help! Where do I find the bonus episode?

Kendric Beachey

Dr. Bashwiner mentioned people learning to clap on the beat (or not) in church. In the Mennonite churches I've attended, we don't clap, but we do sing four-part harmony, leading to development of a skill that many folks these days don't pick up. (And some folks, being tone deaf, still don't...some feel a little out of the loop, but some seem oblivious and happily sing anyway)