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Enigmatiology Discussion Thread: Did you listen yet? (Patreon)

Published:
2022-12-08 00:30:32
Imported:
2026-06

Content

At long last, I got to sit down with my old friend David Kwong who is not only a professional magician (what??) but has also written New York Times crossword puzzles for years. 

We chatted about subconscious word searches, anagrams, Wordle derivatives, surprise party strategies, secret magic castles in the hills of Hollywood, Scrabble research, puzzles and cognition in older age, and the crossword so hard that it  got David hate mail. 

Do you do any word puzzles? Anyone still Wordling daily? And who's with me on venturing into Monday crossword territory? 

Puzzlingly yours, 

Wild Area 

Files

Enigmatology (WORD PUZZLES) with David Kwong - alie ward

Crosswords! Puzzles! Wordles! Magic? Ah yes, world-renowned Enigmatologist David Kwong drops in to chat about the intersection of sleight of hand and brain games, covering everything from Scrabble strategies to how to get away with a surprise party unsuspected. Also: crosswords and dementia, how puz

Comments

Debbie Helm

I finally got around to doing the October 2013 (Mirrors) NYT crossword puzzle David talked about in the interview. It was super cool & fun! Also, this was an awesome episode and I love loved it!

Kaitlin J

Literally use Worldle to motivate my very adhd brain to memorize countries of the world and it’s the best

Doug Koekkoek

My wife and I keep a book of crossword puzzles in the bathroom to work on while

Katie Hultman

I feel like the NYT crossword is still a bit over my head but I am fascinated but the story telling and all of the work that goes into them! Listening to this definitely made me want to give it a try. Maybe with the hints he gave us I won't quit after 5 minutes of struggling!

Doug Koekkoek

Sitting. We still play Wordle plus a game called Spelling Bee and another called Semantle. Check those out. Plus Sudoku and it’s many variants.

cash.ruska

I. Love. Word. Puzzles. Penny Press is my favorite brand! I love fill-ins most, but their variety packs keep me entertained. For some reason I put off Wordle for well over a year, but now that I started I'm hooked!

Laura Jensen

Yes! I still wordle daily, Octordle sometimes, play Wordscapes with my 7 year old, enjoy games like Upwords, Scattergories, Boggle... word games are like a hearty snack for my brain!

Derek Peloquin

I found a Wordle variant game called Words for Nerds and that's the one I play when I get in to work each day now. 🙂

Ann Hanlin

I loved this episode so much! I’ve always been so terrible at crosswords, but I also didn’t realize that even the titles of the crosswords could be so important to solving the whole puzzle 🤦‍♀️🤷‍♀️. Also, not from this episode but the last one—indigenous pedology, you mentioned doing a POTTERY EPISODE AND OMG PLEASE. I’m a potter and am super interested in learning more about the science of glazes!! In the spirit of making a pottery episode happen, i wanna recommend John Britt as a possible ologist! He has multiple books published and a glaze making workshop on YouTube for free! He seems like a really cool guy. His website is johnbrittpottery.com

Alie Ward

Mondays are your friend!! I tried one for the first time this week and it was actually fun, for once

Susan G

This episode was so much fun! I do wordle, quordle, octordle, and anigrams daily. It has been a while since I did a crossword though!

Between Dumplings

Have I heard of the Magic Castle? Yes. Did I get taken to dinner there by my late FIL, MIL and then soon-to-be husband? Yes. Did I get chosen to assist the performer? YES! Also, I could barely follow the explanations of how crosswords are built, and did he say months on a single one? How do you make a living on that sort of timetable? Do they pay them a bajillion dollars per puzzle? Maybe I should stick to Wordle and Scrabble and assisting magicians...

Will Clark

I loved it! It's was so interesting. Now I want to create a crossword, make it disappear, and then pull it out of a hat.

Jennavieve Jellyybean

Thank you kindly for reading my cutthroat response lol! I learned where to find some crosswords geared to less 80s trivia and am excited to feel smart again! You are wonderful and made my day :)

Alie Ward

What was the trick you assisted with?! And am I right -- didn't that place smell like gravy?

beccaand

This was such a fun episode! Tried out the 64dle today and oooh it was a marathon

Christy Mitchell

NYT Games app is my most used lately 🙃 Wordle (+WordleBot analysis and discussion with fellow WBot nerds🤓), Mini Xword and Spelling Bee are my daily wake-up exercises. Sometimes I'll do the full Xword later in the day. I play a lot of Quordle, Octordle, Duotrigordle, Phrazle, etc. Word games and puzzles in general, including complicated solitaire card games, sudoku, logic puzzles, etc., help me with anxiety management and distraction from intrusive thoughts, tendencies to ruminate, and all that awesome baggage that chronic depression and anxiety bring. 🥸

Christy Mitchell

Try the mini crossword puzzles! They are very short, sweet and fun to do. I've gotten consistent in finishing them within one minute and they have really helped me learn a lot of the nuances of the larger puzzles. Before Feb 2022 I rarely did any crosswords and didn't know anything about them. Mondays are definitely designed to be easier and are a great way to get into them too.

Katie Hultman

I didn't know they had mini versions! I'll try it!

Christy Mitchell

I haven't listened yet, but looked up the 64dle based on your comment. 🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩 Wow! Duotrigordle (32 boards) was getting boring, so this really hits the crazy word obsessed mark in my brain!

Nathalie Jones

I was waiting for you to post this so i could say OMG JARED'S GRANDMA. I also have started to try and do the NYT minis in the last couple days since listening so my brain thanks you Alie even tho its harddd to get started again

Alie Ward

I honestly got DIZZY when I attempted 64ordle

Alie Ward

I love that it gives us a healthy challenge or problem to solve, unlike social media which often poses giant weird problems

Alie Ward

dude Grandma Sue does NOT fuck around when it comes to bananagrams. Also once my mom played PIMP and I was like, wow Nancy nice.

Nathalie Jones

I got to hear my Nana say the word 'penis' in a game of telestrations never forget

Between Dumplings

Honestly, it was quite a long time ago, maybe 17 years? It was a card trick and all I can remember is that there was no way that it could have worked but it DID. Kept the card for some time. Gravy I think I'd remember since it's a wonderful thing. What I remember most was the crowd. Lots of very accomplished, nerds, and everyone dressed to the nines. My FIL was a leading neonatalogist (oo another theme?) and he was tickled to take us upon the invitation of a colleague. Very special for him to share that with us. Really, no place like it, right?

Cate Muenker

Love when older folks show some gumption! ❤️Jared’s grandma. I’ve been known to use that word in scrabble, to the horror of my teenage kids! And I heard my name and my question be asked, so I’m seriously ECSTATICALLY HAPPY AND THRILLED right now. The best part is that a former student of mine texted me that he heard my question be asked, and we used to talk about ologies when he worked in my lab, so not only was this a topic of conversation back then, but ologies is something that keeps us close even though he’s in WA and I’m in CT.

Cate Muenker

Try Globle and Wordle. Also fun. Spelling bee is great, too.

Average_pi

my dad and sister loved this episode! They do a bunch of puzzles every morning. They do the quarrel, the Octordle, the waffle( you have all of the letters but you have to rearrange them), the worldle (different countries), the spelling bee, the mini crossword, and the wordle. Thanks for the fantastic episode!

Alie Ward

Had they ever heard of anigram.us before?

Kathy Clark

Timing! Dec. 8 (tomorrow) is National Crossword Solvers Day, a brand new holiday created this year by professional crossword puzzle writer Myles Mellor!

Lee Wang

I'm a daily crossword solver, and by normal people standards, pretty good (although when I've done tournaments, I'm decidedly mediocre), so this episode is IN THE DIRECTION OF A NARROW PASSAGE WAY (alley-ward, if you'll pardon the undercooked-yet-still-tortured phrase), and as such, a few other thoughts that I'd like to share. The crossword community has a sizable segment that feels that NYT, which is definitely the most popular crossword in the US, is extremely hide-bound and not as inclusive as it should be, especially compared to e.g. the puzzles for USA Today or LAT or the New Yorker (whose regular contributors are pretty much my favorite constructors). The most unfortunate example of which was when an offensive epithet was clued as a baseball pitch meant to hit a batter -- before the puzzle ran, Will Shortz was alerted that the answer was principally an ethnic slur and almost never used in a baseball context, but he said he'd never encountered it before. And so it ran as is, and then people were rightfully offended. I don't think Shortz is necessarily a closet racist, but it illustrated the lack of awareness about contemporary discourses about race and inclusion and cultural sensitivity, and also the limitations of the gatekeepers at NYT who determine what is or is not considered offensive (in this, the worst case) or, more generally, what is notable enough to be included in a puzzle as general knowledge (which has of course historically marginalized and excluded POC and LGBT+ culture). TO BE FAIR, NYT has gotten better at DEI (the last couple years have seen a bunch of new bylines, many of which have female-gendered names), but it still lags behind other outlets. Kameron Austin Collins is a constructor (one of my faves) who's been vocal about NYT's shortcomings, and has a much more articulate and personal account of his disappointment with the Grey Lady. I guess that's technically only one thought, albeit a long one, and one that I feel important to share.

Kris Noble

I really enjoyed it! I've been learning cryptics for a few years now - anyone who wants to try them I would recommend the Guardian as a good resource. They have some blog posts about the common clue types and how to solve them (@Alie I expect you found those in your search), plus they have a special puzzle geared to learners called the Quiptic, AND the Monday puzzles are a bit easier as you might expect. The Independent has some good puzzles too, and both outlets make them available online. That said, on the topic of diversity and inclusion there are some aspects geared more towards older solvers, and being English a lot of references to things like cricket or, say, British military abbreviations, which I'm not super keen on. I think that's a problem with cryptics on the whole but hopefully that will progress. Another good resource would be FifteenSquared.net, which not only has solutions but crucially _explanations_, so if you're ever stuck you can go there for help. I do hope more people, especially around the world, start trying the cryptics because although the learning curve is steep, the dopamines you get when an answer clicks into place are just *chef's kiss* (I wonder if neurodivergent brains are predisposed to this kind of thing...) Also I'm a keen Wordler too, I play the regular version and Quark, a high-school level physics-themed one. I've actually played all the words on Quark so they're looping back around, so now the game for me is making sure I keep my 100% streak and also trying to get as many first-try solves as I can :D

Spencer Parks

I don't play as many games/puzzles as I would like to but every once in a while I'll do something. That 64ordle game is NUTS! I played it after listening to the episode and I was very content with my 62 out of 64. Alie, I'm about the same level as you at crosswords. I would be thrilled if I finished a monday puzzle but after that I need assistance. :) I'm enough of a word nerd to have a podcast all about words (The Dictionary) but I'm NO good at Scrabble or other word games. They stress me out. :)

Suzen Baxter

What does “Sch” mean in a clue? I googled it but didn’t find it. This episode has really enlighten me on how to approach crosswords. I had no idea that an abbreviation in the clue meant an abbreviation in the answer, or any of the other tips he shared.

Joy Johnson

Thanks for Enigmatology! So fun. I look forward to The Sunday New York Times crossword each week. My attention span is too short to complete it in one sitting, but whatever I don't finish has become an integral part of my daughter's visit each week. I don't get out much. She visits me weekly and after lunch, we put our heads together, literally on the couch, to complete the Sunday puzzle. Two heads really are better than one! We both also love the spelling bee, and have had lots of laughs forming words from the jumble of letters. The whole episode was magic. Got to go do Wordle now.

Omexamorph

I listened! It reminded me that I have a weird puzzle called Cain's Jawbone that I got as a gift but have yet to start. Honestly intimidated by it. I love puzzles but specifically word puzzles always give me a hard time.

Katie Hultman

Okay, I tried this week's Monday puzzle and I only had to cheat and look up one answer! I'm so excited and now I know what I'll be doing when work is slow today.

Adrien WikiSleep Sala

Oh yes, still Wordling (got it in TWO today, so going to take a nap now for a few hours)! Also, playing Quordle, which is like Wordle but four words at a time—and Sedecordle, which has a mind-bending 16 words at time! Then there's Globle, in which you play hot-cold to figure out the country of the day. And after all that, I had just enough time to listen to the Enigmatology episode—which was fantastic and really enhanced my appreciation for the brains behind puzzle-making. Thanks for the interview. Really loved this one.

Between Dumplings

Hope everyone is off NYT today in support of striking workers.

Dorit

Have you heard of the Listener Crossword? It's the only crossword I do. It's in the Times (the UK one) and is very good fun. It follows cryptic crossword rules, but there are different additional rules each week. All the answers must be in the Chambers Dictionary. I first learned how to solve cryptic crosswords by watching my friends do the Listener on weekends in pubs in Cambridge (the UK one... we used to lug a massive copy of Chambers to the pub every weekend...very cool) and it was like watching them perform magic tricks so I totally see the connections between puzzles and magic. And I also totally get the dopamine fix every time I solve a clue.

James Nance

The Sunday Puzzle on NPR's Weekend Edition is one of my favorite weekend activities (co-hosted by Will Shortz). I always feel so smart when I get one right (but so dumb when I miss an obvious one)!

Pinot Noir

Hi Dad. I'm a huge fan of classic movies and a great movie called Mr. Lucky starring Cary Grant has some fantastic examples of Rhyming Slang. Please watch it if you get a chance (also it's a great wartime love story). Thank you for making the greatest podcast ever. Take care. Erik.

Gwen Kelly

I was surprised that David didn’t mention Semantle in his list of wordle inspired games. I still wordle. Sometimes worldle, and if I’m really looking for a challenge, I try the Semantle - https://semantle.com/ - where you try to guess a word (could be literally any word) by guessing and words and related words, and it tells you if you’re hot or cold. It’s tricky AF, and related could be like the plural of a noun, the past tense of the verb, or just something like “birthday” is related to “party”. It’s a fun one to do with friends.

fullmetalknee

The second he said "competitive Scrabble" I immediately thought of this computer game Babble Royale. It's free and basically Attack Scrabble and I LOVE it

Tamara Struminger

I'm so sorry to be the ultra pedantic listener who has to say this, but around 12 minutes in, David says "saber-toothed tiger" - which is not an accepted name for the animal. It's a saber-toothed cat. Sorry again.