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Witchology is up! Let’s talk about the episode (Patreon)

Published:
2023-10-04 19:03:09
Edited:
2023-10-04 19:06:24
Imported:
2026-06

Content

Happy Spoktober, little ones. The episode you’ve been waiting centuries for is live: WITCHES. I’ve been wanting to talk to an expert/witch for yeaaaars and was introduced to Pagan perfection: Fio Gede Parma, who’s been at this for decades.

We cover witch trials, myths and misconceptions, teen movies, spells, Wiccan history, intersectional witchery, WHO is a witch, modern protests against witches, awkward Uber rides and so much more.

Fio is so educated and passionate and I hope this one gives you a peek into some a world you’ve been curious about, or helps more people understand your own views.

Let me know what you thought of the episode and feel free to have discussions below.

Next week: your juicy Witchology questions. So good. (And yes I promise it’s a word.)

Bubble bubble,

Dadward McCreepytown

Files

Witchology (WITCHES & WITCHCRAFT) Part 1 with Fio Gede Parma - alie ward

IT'S HERE. Witches. Not just a witch expert, but also a witch. Author Fio Gede Parma has been a practicing witch and highly respected writer, speaker and teacher, and they cover witch history, different types of witches, intersectional witchcraft, forest covens, teen movies, witch trials, witch fash

Comments

Frederick Raymond-Coursol

Wasn’t really for me this one, gotta admit, maybe because of my skepticism🤔 nonetheless top quality pod as well. Keep up the good work Alie

Naomi Jane

Loved it! Looking forward to part two. I'd really like to recommend Juno Dawson's book series Her Majesty's Royal Coven - it covers some of the points touched on in the episode, albeit within a fictional context.

Josephine Robertson

Haven't even finished the episode yet but an interesting contrast to where you all talk about the beautiful woman transforming into a hag: In ancient Celtic mythology (particularly Scotland/Ireland/Wales here) the idea of sovereignty was imbued in the feminine (ie the land) and the king to rule had to have it granted to him by the mythic woman. But frequently in the stories he would meet an old hag. She would demand a favor (to be carried across a river, to have sex, etc). The unworthy would deny her in disgust. The WORTHY (who would become king) would graciously do whatever she asked and she would at the end transform into a beautiful divine maiden, marry him, and thereby make him king. So an interesting note that our culture has turned that particular (preChristian) idea on its head with the horror of beautiful woman to hag.

Alie Ward

Oh weird! How's your internet or cell service? Could it be a download or streaming problem?

Hope J 🏳️‍🌈

It has happened with a few episodes, like the one on Buffalo and I had to go to Apple Podcasts. Seems random?

Alie Ward

I get it! People connect to the universe in so many different ways and I'm always curious to hear others' perspectives. I do love the notion of finding purpose or connection to other life out in nature.

Alie Ward

Aaaah, that's interesting. Like the frog prince but flipped genders! And unlike aging women, men don't naturally turn into actual toads as they age and are marketed a bunch of wart remover and green skin concealer after they turn 35. If you haven't heard Kalology (BEAUTY STANDARDS) yet, it's great!

Josephine Robertson

Yup, personally I'm enjoying my descent into crone/hag-dom, rather freeing. ;)

Jim Ottaviani

Like Frederick R-C, this one is a hard sell for me, but it's good to listen to different perspectives on the world. Thanks for including the correction regarding the moon's influence on ER visits. (As in, there's none, with a possible exception for distracted-driving related issues.) Your guest's certainty about this seems to me to be an object lesson in confirmation bias...which they're not alone in having, of course, since it appears that many ER nurses and doctors still suffer from it when it comes to the full moon!

Jennifer Steinle

I love love loved this episode and cannot wait for part 2! Allie Ward, you are a treasure!!

Dave Cannon

I think it's super interesting even though I don't believe in spirits. I think there is potentially room for spirits and science, but I'd have to be through electricity or something, right?

Beau Jarvis

this is so random alie, but i have a movie rec for you… it’s called ✨Barb and Star go to Vista Del Mar✨. it kinda flew under the radar during covid so not a lot of people know about it but it is so fun. it doesn’t take itself too seriously and has serious summery vacay vibes for if you are in the mood

Ashley Green

I loved it!! What an interesting topic.

Kathleen Sachs

Haven’t finished the episode yet, but I’m super excited to hear that you interviewed someone from the Reclaiming tradition for this episode. It’s also the tradition I practice. I’m also excited that you interviewed Fio. My favorite person interviewing another favorite person.

Julia

The discussion of witch history was really interesting! I had no idea there were anti-semitic roots in the typical “witch” appearance we see in movies and cartoons. Also I think it’ll be addressed from patreon questions but I’m still unsure what magic looks like to the witch community and to Fio. There’s so many sub communities that you both mentioned in the episode so I’m sure it’s a big spectrum but as a scientist and a skeptic I’d love more clarification! I had a phase where I looked into witchcraft, Wicca, and pagan topics I think they’re all so interesting and I love the community that surrounds them but I’ve never felt that spark that Fio talked about. I can still admire their work whether or not I’m a witch. Excited for part 2 to get the full picture!

Lena Gwen

I really enjoyed the deep-dive into witch history. However, the concept of the episode didn't sit right with me. Ologies usually presents science based knowledge. To be clear, I enjoyed the show and I think that it is a valid perspective on the world. But it was lacking scientific back-up. For comparison, the vampire episode from last year had a more scientific approach.

Marlis Cheeseophile

So many thoughts! Here are a few: got me thinking about the intersection of science and spirituality. Gotta hunch it's a "yes and" situation for many scientists and science nerds-- the complexity of natural relationships inspires awe, right? Robin the Moss Queen is a capital "S" scientist but she is reverent about nature and not only self-identifies as spiritual, but encourages us to bring it in to our scientific worldview. So, how many scientists are witches, I wonder? You invoked this a bit with Fio, but I wonder how many are practitioners and what they'd have to say-- maybe Fio has witch friends in the science community. Also, very interested in the historical witch persucution context part of the conversation. Were people practicing the craft, or were they mostly just being scapegoated and witchcraft was a handy propaganda excuse to fuel a Holocaust of people considered outside the norm? Or was this a both/and situation too? Some were certainly practicing an alt religion, but being vilified for it? Grew up near Salem and education in the 80s said, "no witchcraft, just an excuse to persecute" (think Henry Miller and "Crucible"). Modern Salem likes to have their history both ways and celebrate tropes about witches and voyuerize the violence to make a lot of bucks. Last thought for now: Hurray! There are witchcraft classes in my area. I'm witch-curious and have been so my whole life, thanks for the invitation to explore another potential part of myself! Would love to hear Fio share some on their daily practice-- what does day to day practice really look like? Examples of work for themselves and practice with/for others? Okay, one more: What's Fio's take on "Practical Magic" book or movie, or Alice Hoffman? I think she might be a literary witch... thank you and Fio for generating so much pre-coffee flow and thinking! That's a testament to your powers.

Dor Green (KimiNewt)

Yeah. It was a real surprise to see this on my feed but I figured it was going to be just a cultural/historical thing. Treating this stuff with (at best) uncritical kids glove left a sour taste in my mouth. I'll keep listening of course but I'm gonna skip the next half and pretend this never happened.

Trace

As a pagan but not a witch or a wiccan this episode was an interesting listen into how nature and the "energy" of the natural world influences people, culture, and history. I'd really like to hear Fio explore the skepticism that trails behind anything that isn't Christianity like a bad smell. Living with beliefs that are outside the mainstream can be troubling and sometimes dangerous. I really love that Fio is a non-western practitioner, in the US the voices of white women sometimes drown out other facets of witchology.

Nathan-Andrew

I agree. Even the history presented lacks a solid foundation, and has been rightly challenged by experts. While an ology like this does merit the inside look the episode presents (especially for Spooktober), offering a sober, scientific perspective on the topic in November would be a valuable, and welcome addendum. May I suggest speaking to Dr. Jeb Card about Weirdshitology? Yes, it is an actual thing!

Alie Ward

I completely get this and presented it as more of a look into that world and culture, rather than a presecriptive episode. I did include scientific research to and further info on some points, but I'll admit I felt this Part 1 was too aside heavy and I cut a few asides so that my voice didn't dominate. One aside read: "Aside 9: So some sociologists feel that a belief in supernatural cause and effect, or even a belief in God, is magical thinking, and in the 2022 study “Belief in Luck and Precognition Around the World,” researchers found that it varied across cultures, but magical beliefs were less common in Western European countries but higher in Eastern Europe, Russian and South Asia, and that any magical beliefs can fulfill a need for order, certainty and predictability. Or: let’s make some sense of this thing called Life. Depending on where you live, your environment and peers and dominant cultures can influence a belief in ESP or good vibes or prayer or spells -- which is like, zero surprise. They don’t call it the Bible Belt for nothing, for example. Thoughts and geography tend to go hand in hand. And another recent study, "Witchcraft beliefs around the world: An exploratory analysis," looked at the impact of fearing witchcraft. In cultures with a common terror of witches – which researchers found tended to rely on rigid social norms, conservative values, and suppression of the basic human drive to enjoy life -- people experienced higher anxiety and lower trust.” So, the fear of witches is perhaps doing more damage than actual witches. So what I am learning is that if people stayed out of others’ business, across the board, we would like and trust each other more. Believe what you want, and ask smart people well-meaning questions. I don’t know how the Universe works, so I think this stuff is fascinating, and I just love to hear different hypotheses.

Alie Ward

KimiNewt & Nathan: I totally understand that, and it's a great point to make. By way of explanation: I didn't explore this topic as a debate, but a conversation fueled by curiosity. And I did do lunar debunking along the way. But if a person of faith says that they see spirits, there's really no scientific evidence I can cite to disprove the individual experiences they feel they've had. It was really a window into a history and culture. But I also cited Dr. Flip Tanedo's episode about how little we know of Dark Matter and him lightheartedly saying there's a chance we're spirits in the Dark Matter universe. All in the nature of wonder, curiosity, and the understanding that even scientists admit they don't know shit about a lot of things. That's the excitement of discovery. Mystery.

Alie Ward

I understand. Most episodes inform us of facts, and this was meant to inform of history and specific cultural beliefs: a spooky interesting one to kick off Spooktober.

Sandy Green

Haven’t finished the episode, but had to pause to say Please make a sweatshirt that says ‘I’m just a curious ape with a search engine’

Alie Ward

AHAHAHA, glad you liked that one!

Jeanette-o-saur

Related to Lena's comment above, I would like to request a future witchology episode with an expert on the folklore and symbology of witches through ages and across cultures similar to the vampirology episode. I want the social science meets pop culture deep dive pretty please!

Alie Ward

Hey there! Actually last year, I recorded a Paganology episode with the editor of the world's most prominent Pagan journal but I never aired it. Unfortunately the guest expressed several viewpoints that would be harmful to many (marginalized) groups and so I killed the episode. It was important to me to have an *actual* self-described witch as the guest, so I chose an author and teacher on the subject who not only identified as one, had written and spoken extensively on many different sects of witchcraft, but could also lend some perspective to intersectionality and gender issues on the topic. Vampires and monsters don't exist, but witches do; therefore a first-person episode was important to me. This is presented as a rare episode with the caveat that it's an account of the guest's faith-based beliefs, experiences and opinions, rather than a peer-reviewed overview.

Jeanette-o-saur

That makes sense and I fully respect the decision to a) speak to a practitioner and b) trash a potentially harmful episode. How unfortunate. It was an interesting listen. It's just limited because it's only one sect/style/culture of witchcraft and didn't delve very deep into history. The ape with a search engine wants to know more things 🐒🧠 I suppose this is the trickiness of social-ologies.

Alie Ward

We have a part 2, remember, so there is a lot of lore and history in that one coming up!

Jeanette-o-saur

Valid. Assessment suspended until after part 2

Lindsay Mixer

As a disabled person who’s been hurt by the specific type of witchcraft many white women preach, I really, really appreciated you talking to someone who lives and embodies a very different, more respectful type of craft. Such a great episode.

Kelly Moran

For the folks who have a new interest in the relationship between science and spirituality, I highly recommend checking out Emergence Magazine’s podcast!

Isabelle Newman

I thought this was super interesting! I liked the idea of taking a cultural and historical look at witches especially since as people focused mainly on hard sciences we don’t usually delve into these topics. I know it wasn’t everyone’s cup of tea but I think it was a great idea to include something off the beaten path for us to diversify our understanding of the world!

I am Nrobnas

Posting this while listening to Part 2. I love this guest!! When Part 1 dropped, my first thought was, “Dad Ward, what is this nonsense?!” I gave it a listen anyway as background noise for work. And I’m glad I did. It’s amazing to hear stuff from knowledgeable people about unfamiliar topics. Especially topics like this one, that have so much “pop culture” info that drowns out the historical and “real” stuff. But here’s what I love most about this guest — if they don’t know the answer or enough about the subject, they state that and will refuse to give an answer. And when they do it, it’s very “matter of fact.” Not in a “shutting down the conversation” way or confrontational. Thanks and great job, Dad Ward!!

Devon Naples

Great episode. Haters to the back. This guest is so engaging, and Alie crushes the asides with thorough, scientific context. And just, learned so much. Thank you for this, possibly my favorite Spooktober episode ever!

Iso partee

I loved this episode! I discovered that I may be a witch! Also, immediately bought the recommended book The Spiral Dance

Hex

Reading these comments has convinced me to give this episode a try. But for the opposite reason other people were not listening. I am a long term practicing Witch (non Wiccan/vaguely pagan) who has a spot on a coven council and portrayal of witches outside of trusted Magick sources makes me very nervous as it is one of the most important things in my life. It sounds like this is a true respectful and knowledge based interview and I am now interested in what is said

Hex

(Though I will say the reccomend reading being from Starhawk does make me warry)

Melissa Croce

Saved part one until part two was up so I could listen to both, and I’m glad I did! Loved this. I love witchy stuff, and lightly practice things like tarot reading, crystals, and astrology, but admittedly my knowledge largely comes from pop culture rather than people more immersed in the practice and culture. I know some people weren’t into this episode due to the lack of facts, and I respect that perspective even if I don’t personally understand/identify with it, but I think this topic fits right in with Ologies, which I personally view as an interdisciplinary podcast rather than a strictly scientific one. Alie is excellent at situating science within cultural and historical contexts rather than just having guest simply spew facts at us and these two episodes just happen to be more based in those two practices rather than just science. To end on a lighter note, the curation of “other ologies you may enjoy” made me laugh: the moon, vampires, eating wild plants, dreams, happiness, kissing, moss, mushrooms, and pumpkins. They seem random but the Scorpio in me was like, no, this is all perfect; I love them all. All ingredients for an ideal Spooky Season, if you ask me. (And I’ve listened to them all!)

Jennifer Hauf

Alie! I keep thinking about your response here and am so grateful for it. Thank you for your work and for making so much space for so much expansiveness

Gnome Anne

I love this episode 💕 there was ton of great information. Not scientific, more of a cultural perspective, but anthropology is also a valid academic field. There is a lot of discussion in that field on “objective” othering versus studying from within a cultural perspective and this episode aligned with the latter 💕

Jeanette-o-saur

Appreciation note for part 2: definitely scratched several itches on my need to know list. Sorry for jumping the gun on being dissatisfied after part 1