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An Emotional Timeline of Taylor Swift & Joe Alwyn's Relationship (Patreon)

Published:
2023-04-16 13:08:09
Imported:
2026-06
Tags:

Content

Well snakes, here we are. Another emergency episode. To discuss the shot heard around the world: the demise of Toe. In this episode, The Snakes detangle the various clues & cryptic easter eggs that have been dropped over the years about the nature of Taylor Swift & Joe Alwyn's 6 year relationship. Following a playlist created to chart Taylor's inner journey, your favourite armchair analysts speculate and hypothesise about what triggered the fallout, how the relationship started, and where each of them are headed next. Make sure to check out the Patreon for more unfiltered discussion on this subject!

PLAYLIST: https://spoti.fi/43E0iBy

Video coming very soon! You guys are gonna get so well fed this week....1-800-Phone-A-Snake is imminent. 

Files

An Emotional Timeline of Taylor Swift & Joe Alwyn's Relationship

Listen to this episode from Evolution of a Snake: The Taylor Swift Podcast on Spotify. Well snakes, here we are. Another emergency episode. To discuss the shot heard around the world: the demise of Toe.

Comments

tali

THE NEW INTROOO thank you sm for this episode

Cameron

THIS ISN’T EVOLUTION OF A FLOP… ABSOLUTELY RUTHLESS

An1Li

SIDE NOTE IM SO HAPPY FOR YHE NEW INTRO THE LAST ONE MADE MY EARS HURT SO I HAD TO SKIP 15 SECONDS EVERY EPISODE

An1Li

The Demise Of Toe is my favorite movue

paige benn

what is joe biden’s plan to make 2016 part 2 an emergency episode

bloop

iirc she said on some live chat for a music video premiere (maybe anti hero?) or somewhere that midnights was finished in may 2022 because of the vinyl delay? so the mastering etc was done before then

Cameron

Conversations with friends… no lies spoken… fellow Irish person and Sally Rooney stan here and I could not torture myself with that BRUTAL adaption either no matter how much I tried 😭

Lisa Hurley

Oh god I forgot about the September cover 😬(listening to the playlist first)

dystopichippy

serving cunt with that new introooo 🔥🔥🔥🔥 I’ll have to listen tomorrow but I had to hear it after all the comments 🤌🏾✨ SPICY

Austėja

YESSSSS you just made my whole day and you released the video version today too. Thanks💓

Justice

THE NEW INTRO 🖤

Mia Bates

I'm 20 minutes in and I just want to say I didn't really suspect Joe being a bit of a.. not great fit for Taylor until recently post breakup BUT I did always think to myself when I heard Peace that the line "it's like I'm wasting your honour" Is like... a lot. I don't think that's a great mindset to have toward a partner.. things can never be equal but that's like, that your partners almost godlike in how much better they are - their is absolutely nothing wrong with talking shit with your friends. Always wanted to say that to her!

megan!

the smoking alley cat in lover city 😭😭😭 screaming that’s exactly what false god is!! and you know what we will let him rock

Melina

Y’all remember when Shawn Mendes said that joe looked a little like a villain Maybe he was onto something 👀

Jelousyje

The way joe ALWAYS rubbed me the wrong way, have you seen the video were they asked him about the cat meme and he didn't even chuckle like.....

Belle

Re: Maroon - I still think this is about Jake Gyllenhaal. In the same way Taylor wanted us to know that Question is about Harry by having the ‘I remember’ at the start of the song, she called a song ‘Maroon’ which is a shade of Red and made it track 2 to parallel Red the song on Red the album. The legacy line makes a lot of sense in that context because after Red TV she was singing a lot about Jake and fits in with the wider theme of Midnights which is looking at past relationships. It is also suspected that Jake did indeed have a roommate at the time they were dating (Austin Nichols - people thought he was gay for this reason). Jake is also exactly the person who would have incense and a vinyl shelf, their relationship broke down a lot due to distance (rust that grew between telephones) and we know they broke up and got back together a few times which fits in with the lines like ‘sobbing with your head in your hands, ain’t that the way shit always ends?’ Oh and also obviously New York is important to their relationship.

courtney

I was thinking the other day how I wonder if Taylor is now wondering if love actually is burning red and not golden and I loooooved the section where you discussed this! Would definitely add another layer to Maroon ... if it's not about Joe then maybe she misses that kind of love and if it is about Joe then maybe she realised the love wasn't golden at all 🤔 Also going to need a full deep dive into peeling the onion of hoax but until I make it into the besties tier and not besties lite I will bide my time with the smoking alley cat in Lover City

sylvie

God this next album is gonna be such a banger I cant wait. PLEASE GOD give us an I Bet You Think About Me-level dragging of Joe being a pretentious bore, idc if it takes her 10 years I need it

Eva

Aahh you guys this is the best birthday present ever! I was looking forward to this so much, literally checking every 10 minutes if you had posted something. Can’t wait to listen to it!

Cardigan

Before they broke up, I really thought that they were end game and that they balanced each other perfectly. I understand why so many people were shocked by the news (i was too) because they seemed perfect for each other, and it was a 6 year relationship. In hindsight now, with the info we've been given I'm so annoyed at Joe like you were with her for nearly 7 years and you've now decided that you can't handle it?!?! Taylor deserves someone who fully accepts all parts of her including the part of her that to am extent enjoys attention and fame. It really sucks and makes me sad for her that all these fears she had about the relationship turned out to be true.

Cardigan

A comment I've seen that irritates me is that being with Taylor "hurt" his career because that's absolutely insane. Being with Taylor only increased the number of people who know him, and he's shy and not charismatic. Things you need to be the It guy in Hollywood. He's very much an introvert and he did very small historical movies. He doesn’t like fame nor does he seem to want it, so yea he's going to live in Taylor's shadow to an extent and that’s fine. She's Taylor Swift she will always be the more successful person in a relationship, and there's so many women who are the "less known/successful partner" and no one seems to have an issue with that. I don't think he's pretentious and I do think he loved and supports Taylor's songwriting and art. He wrote songs with her and he seems like a nice wonderful man. She was with him for nearly 7 years. However, he didn't like the fame which is a part of who she is. Any partner of hers needs to show up to an extent if she wants him too, and maybe she didn’t I obviously don't know the whole story, but it really sucks that his problem was fame.

Domi Solo

There’s a compelling argument that So It Goes was written in 2015. A Calvin song lol 😈

Erika Fern 🌿

I always thought Mastermind was about how none of "it" (her career + relationship with fans) was by accident...she masterminded the entire thing. Especially the bridge! She made all of her fans think they know her/she is our friend by sharing so much of her life with us but it was all planned out and not accidental at all. Anyone else?

Lance

Ugh yes feed me!

Miranda Blumanstock

after the breakup i interpret glitch as two parts of their relationship the first verse/ chorus describes the whole cat+mouse cruel summer thing that they had going on. they were supposed to be just friends blah blah. the glitch is that she didn’t expect him to be a big part of her life THEN you get to the second verse welll into the relationship (2190 days aka 6 years perhaps…) and now the system is break down?!!!? the glitch in the second verse/ chorus is talking ab how she thought they’d be together forever paper rings london boy but she’s having doubts aka glitches ab what she actually wants

Steph

Can't say I saw it coming but I always found him soporific, espacially compared to Hiddleston, Styles or Gyllenhaal...it always made no sense to me that she wrote "and you'll save all your dirtiest jokes for me" about him when clearly the most he can do is chuckle twice during a Woody Allen movie

Betsy

“she said ‘are you ready for it?’ and the gag was…he wasn’t.” i’m fucking cackling

courtney

Also I know Taylor says folklore and evermore are fictional but I really do think these stories come from some experiences she has had. My personal theory was always that betty was about Joe apologising to her after a rough patch because of the way she talked about it on the LPSS and idk there's something Met Gala 2016 coded about "I hate the crowds, you know that ... plus I saw you dance with him" perhaps adding to the Cruel Summer. Not sure though because she does seem very insistent on reminding us every night of tour about fictional characters (probs to also get the G****** to stop)

Em

I wonder how much Joe enjoyed the fact he was Taylor’s “saviour” and actually resented her fame and attention. Perhaps he talked down to her and made her feel small and belittled her feelings. Dark thought but people can be resentful and controlling like that in relationships. If so, no wonder she looks super happy now she’s free to revel in her success on stage?

Halle

I’m surprised you didn’t bring up Exile, the first song they wrote together. It’s kind of insane that their first co-writing venture was roleplaying their breakup. The Joe stand-in is so bitter that she’s found happiness with another man. To have had the capacity to move on. Taylor sings of giving him a hundred chances to fix their breaking foundation, yet he’s focused on looking down at her new man as an “understudy”. A couple can write sad songs together, but hindsight makes me believe it’s possible they both let festering emotions and past arguments bleed into that song.

Liv

The Way I Loved You to Midnight Rain pipeline has me💀💀

celia

one thing that's always confused me is the way taylor described joe in her songs (especially early on in their relationship) doesn't seem to match up with who joe is as a person. he comes across as incredibly guarded and uncharismatic but taylor wrote about him as if he was the single most interesting and charming person on the planet. I get that he's introverted and his personality probably comes out more in private but I can't help feeling like she romanticised him and created this idealized version of him in her head. that being said I think the way she wrote about him later on was more realistic. lavender haze and sweet nothing seem to paint a much more accurate picture of who he actually is (he doesn't say much and he's kinda boring). my theory is that she probably found his shyness intriguing and mysterious at first but by the end of the relationship she was completely bored 😂

Eva

Am I crazy for thinking that champagne problems could be about their relationship as well? Not saying that he proposed and she turned it down, but…no wait, maybe I AM saying that. Suddenly everything seems possible.

Alex Bardi

the outro is so good omg

Ageliana speaknow31

Taylor needs to be in a Beyonce/Jay-Z dynamic. That person doesn't need to be in a spotlight, but he needs to be powerful, who runs in similar circles as her and HAVE MONEY because big money imbalance in a relationship is not good.

Michaela Wagner

This whole ordeal made me realise that while I love Taylor I do NOT have a parasocial relationship with her bc when the news broke I was like “okay well that sucks for them”… I was not distraught!

sienna🕊

thank you snakes for feeding me the best content to distract myself from exams lol 💜

Leslie

It's so clear to me now that she and he both thought that her career was on a downward trajectory and his was on the rise and that they'd be able to strike a comfortable balance. I've always thought that somewhere in that tiny little head of hers Taylor deluded herself into thinking she and Joe would be some sort of Hollywood power couple. I remember her saying that while she was hiding out with him before rep she read a lot of biographies and books about old Hollywood couples and studied how they made it work. I think she thought they'd be a couple like that. But you guys are right - he's boring, uncharismatic and severely lacking in any kind of X factor. (Apparently he's untalented too; I wouldn't know as I've never seen any of his movies.) And I'm sorry but you don't get a million "here comes the next great leading man" puff pieces written about you if you're trying to be low key and stay out of the limelight. All of this "he didn't want to deal with the fame" is a great big sour grapes cope for the fact that his career was and is going nowhere and he was going to have to live in Taylor's shadow forever. I think him taking a part in whatever this movie he's filming instead of joining her on tour (after she spent the last several years following him around while he filmed all his flop projects) was the last straw, and I really do believe they broke up sometime between Glendale and Arlington. Now the Sun is reporting that they bought a house together in November and there were painters and decorators there as recently as February. Who knows if true but if so that gives even more credence to it being a recent split. But there have definitely been cracks in the foundation since at least summer 2020.

Dania Marin

i never really thought much of joe before (bc he is really just nothing), i guess i was just happy that taylor seemed happy! i was like yaaaaaa go girl! but as the years gone by and ive seen more joe interviews, i've always thought that he was rather subdued compared to taylor. Thinking about peace and all the songs that essentially put him on a pedestal makes me feel so sad for taylor. Taylor is to her core (before the world turned her a little jaded) a playful, light hearted, romantic, hopeful, fun, glittery girls girl. She has never taken herself so seriously. I've always thought that someone who is just as light-hearted and silly like taylor would be really good for her. I am NOT a tom hiddleston stan and i dont really think much of them two together but the fact that he wore an "i heart TS" shirt is the kind of energy that i'm talking about! someone who is not afraid to be public, someone who is playful and doesnt take the celebrity life TOO seriously. Someone who is more shameless. I remember an interview Taylor gave during red where she said a deal breaker was someone who wanted to be hyper-private and hide from the world and I think about that a lot. in 2016 taylor desperately wanted and needed privacy after everything that happened. But she's BEEN aware of her fame for a long time now and seems to accept it now. Maybe in the last few years post-folklore she's realizing again that she doesnt want to resist it anymore and just live her life in the public eye. Some things stay very private for sure, but she accepts the spotlight and she even enjoys it and wants to celebrate her success. So i feel like she might want someone who is on that same page, someone who will let her shine and maybe even shine with her? idk i just hope she finds someone who isnt stuffy and subdued and boring because she's so sweet and fun in her core and she shouldnt feel belittled for that!!!

Jordyn

May I admit, when Folklore first came out I sat there listening and pondering and thinking to myself who the fuck are these songs about?? Literally me while The 1 was playing thinking have they broken up?.. sure I know these are inspired writings but inspired fromst where!! Joey….

Jordyn

Also he does come across as a pretentious, posh London Boy TM. The GQ video about the 10 things was cringe as, Conversations demonstrated how boring and uncompelling he is as an actor. Just meh meh meh

Katherine

“He’s gotta go to tesco now,” LMAOOO

Blueasice24

Very much appreciate this thorough breakdown when the rest of the fandom seems to think even mentioning this breakup is the height of disrespect.

ashton

Mirrorball is so Ride music video monologue by Lana Del Rey coded… “My mother told me I had a chameleon soul, no moral compass pointing due north, no fixed personality; just an inner indecisiveness that was as wide and as wavering as the ocean... And if I said I didn't plan for it to turn out this way I'd be lying...”

emma 🌷

fireside chats with madeline 🫡🪵

maltyyy

Just realized Hits Different wasn't mentioned in this episode and I wonder where would you like to put it on the playlist??

em

i genuinely think joe likes being a nothing person… he hasn’t leapt at the chance of being a leading man or a celebrity. he doesn’t take huge roles and it seems like he hates being interviewed. it’s been 6 years and to quote midnight rain “he stayed the same”

Starbuck1234!

Hi Zack & Madeleine. I wanted to point out there’s another area where our girl is being savage. Yes on tour she removed IS (savage) and is singing songs written about him or with him while telling the world the songs mean nothing to her anymore, they MAY have reflected how she felt at one point in her life but they belong to the fans now (savage); and she’s serving sass during delicate “do the girls back home touch you like I do” and she’s rubbing it in his face with her sass she throws during that line (savage). But. I realized another one, that I believe is unintentional, yet the result i think is savage. We forget the National & Bon Iver were HIS fave bands.as usual she bent to his wind and they became “their” fave bands (did he do the same for her?). Then she’s writing songs with Aaron, then Justin, then the National. BRM. Then she’s on stage with Bon Iver playing a song Joe co-wrote (and not mentioning him); Aaron is on Eras playing a song ABOUT Joe. It’s like breaking up with your partner and their besties deciding they’d rather hang out with you instead (even though they only knew who he was because of her in the first place). His fave bands decided they love HER, not him. Savage. He can’t even go home, light incense, & put on indie records because she infiltrated that part of his life too and took that from him. I don’t know how he is still alive. Unintentional. But the result is total savagery.

Megan Dohm

I’m late to the party but yesterday I had my music on shuffle, and it hit me that Midnights has such a restless undertone when compared to the Folkmore era which has this suspended-in-amber feeling (not so much content as “well, here we are” which honestly is such a pandemic mood). Also the bit about tesco made me lol. 😄

emeraldgreaves

late but perhaps long story short for the playlist?