Home
Creators
Search Recent Random
Posts
Search DMs Popular Hash Lookup Tags Random
Importer
Import FAQ
Register Favorites Keys Review DMs Logout
Community
Telegram ThePornDude
Home Creators Posts Import Register Favorites Logout

[PUBLIC EPISODE] The Wizard, the Witch and the Wild One: ep025 “The Retinue" (Patreon)

Published:
2024-04-23 10:30:30
Edited:
2024-05-03 23:45:41
Imported:
2026-06
Tags:

Content

The stars at the top of the world begin to align, and the meeting of the coven draws ever nearer. Old debts are paid and new collateral is put on the line. Ame plays politics, Eursulon plays cowboy, and Suvi's not playing around, not even a little. Remember, the number one rule of hospitality and protocol is never ever tell your host that all your rowdy friends are coming over tonight. They hate that.

Catch the public feed to hear the episode with these links, or anywhere you get your podcasts:

Simplecast

Apple Podcasts

Spotify

YouTube (in a few days)

We recommend listening to Worlds Beyond Number (and the Fireside Feed) on a "podcatching" app like Overcast or Pocket Casts. For more help getting the right audio in the right place, check out our friendly instruction guide.

We are

Brennan Lee Mulligan

Erika Ishii

Aabria Iyengar

Lou Wilson

Produced, designed, and scored by Taylor Moore  at Fortunate Horse with exquisite design and editing help from Jared Olson.

SPECIAL THANKS TO: Tazer Army, Shannon, and Amanda Freberg.

Album art by the great Corey Brickley

Files

Comments

C. A. Whyse

FIRST! Nope, second lol!

Samuel Frenk

Finally another episode 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽

SmileyGuy

The Fox was right in ep 6: “… Let me have more…”

Eleanor King

Awe I wanted to be first. I saw the notification. Rats..

Sanna G.

Perfect timing. Something good to listen to while I eat.

C. A. Whyse

To be fair, I was refreshing the page like a stalker creeping through their shrubbery. I feel weirdly accomplished (even though I was behind WBN)

Eleanor King

I merely dreamt, but I see others were putting in the labor.

Genna

AHOoO HOoO

lunarsummer

The music behind the beginning scene with Eursulon makes me so cozy and happy 🥹

Dusker

Great episode so far loving it. Does anyone get a bit of an audio glitch around 48:58?

C. A. Whyse

That chilly reunion between Ame and Suvi... where better than the North Pole?

Invalid Syntax

The girls are fightiiiiiiiiiiiiiing 😭

Invalid Syntax

I was so stressed for the entire Ame and Suvie section. Aaàaaaaahhhhhh

Benedict Lelijveld

I also like pancakes, and if you tell anyone I WILL flip out

Peabodie

Not sure if anyone has mentioned it but the music with Kalaya and Eursulon is reminding me deeply of Little Bear

Cocomoose

Just started listening to this new episode and I’m like I need to make pancakes this morning!!!!!!

Michelle Spurgeon

I would never want Aabria to be mad at me. That was rough.

BethKF

Aaargh! What a place to leave it! How are we meant to wait a whole two weeks to know the words?!!

DarkHeroZark

This just clicked in my head, Eursulon has the power of Divine SCENTS not sense.

Charles Shields

Songs for the episode that come to mind: "Cold as Ice" by Foreigner, "Witchy Woman" by The Eagles, and "Here comes the Sun" by the Beatles.

Al

Brutal - - I need a billion more minutes of this, please.

geansai

Anyone else tearing up at the entire Eursulon scene? Oh just me? Okay

Ale

Another one for the freaking books. Changing my life one Tuesday at a time <3

Jestmessy

Absolutely criminal to end the episode right there. Straight to jail!!

Genna

"I know better than to attempt to deceive a witch" BUT DO YOU 🫣🫣🫣🫣🫣

Michael Munene

Man, oh man, Mount Suvi was ready to erupt before Eursulon showed up. Next episode is going to be wild!

Carrie Suzanne @ Petit Valais

I am beefing hard with a best friend right now, like I haven’t spoken to her in months because I feel so maligned, and the Ame-Suvi beef has me so, so on edge. I need this resolved. It’s more important than anything else in the story. Please please please can’t everyone just get along. 😭🙏🏼

Carrie Suzanne @ Petit Valais

And I guess I mean that in a very appreciative way - hell of a story, hell of a bunch of storytellers.

Tommy Deibel

RoRo whispering in Eursalon's mouth tells me absolutely everything about his character 🥰 As a dad, I'm excited for the moment when the Wizard Sunny whispers her first secret into Brennan's mouth.

Ecceptable

I also hope they make up but Suvi's rant was soothing to my soul. Finally saying the full Shonda Rhimes monologue to the friend who treated you and your family badly while accepting your help and while believing they were righteous to treat you that way! I gotta take a nap now. Ame and Ursalon are repelled by the Kasilov Collection, but when a witch decorates her palace with the corpses of her terrified enemies let's not judge right away.

MeltedMochi

I’m dying Lou actually sounds like he’s on a horse

Katie Butler

Eursulon's family is simply the best; if a podcast could give you an ear hug i'm telling ya

LadyMage

That's honestly been my biggest beef -- people having such extreme hostility with the Citadel/Suvi but acting as though witches and spirits can't be bad in their own ways. Like yeah, the Citadel has shitty things going on but it's not entirely unfounded, is it? Not every spirit belongs in the Kasilov collection but not every spirit needs to be roaming around willy nilly either. That fiend/devil spirit is not one that I would like to see roaming anywhere if his painting and the way he tried to trick Eursulon is any indication. And there's not enough witches of the World's Heart to mediate between them. A spirit (or a witch) can fuck you and your generations up over a slight that you may or may not even been aware you did lol. I also feel like Ame hasn't been fully upfront with her misgivings. She has her questions and has her statements, but I don't think she's ever said straight up to Suvi "I think this is messed up. You don't see anything wrong with this?" I think more direct conversations like that are needed for Suvi to break from the justification machine. She has it in her, I think, especially after learning more about her parents.

Oakenguard

Suvi is making me sick to my stomach lol... losing respect for her by the second. She is so "smart" and so "logical", yet she elevates her friends to witch and spirit without even trying to understand them beyond "OH THEY JUST DO WHATEVER, MY FEELINGS ARE SO HURT". Then she uses that justification to treat them (Ame specifically, I guess) like shit. I absolutely loathe that. Also, the emotional cliffhanger suuuucks >.> Gotta wait a couple of weeks to see if Ame and Eursalon roll over for Suvi's "Ice Queen", "Oh so high, mighty, and logical", abusive bull. Something tells me they just might >.>

Oakenguard

Treating her friends like shit because she doesn't understand why they did what they did is totally called for, I'm sure. She's acting like a petulant child.

spirit of sumthin sumthin

Erica made the smallest noise when Suvi referred to Ame by her title and it was heartbreaking. But she had it coming

spirit of sumthin sumthin

"But if in the manner of your leaving any harm came to Bear, I will never forgive you. And I need you to know that" 🔥 Wizards might not have retributive curses, but Suvi has absolutely set a condition in their relationship. Suvi engages friends different from family, she's always called Ame her best friend and Eursulon her brother

Connor

Big a wind in the willows vibes from the opening music. Anyone else?

Abigail M

With Lolth/Ted and angry Suvi it’s a feast for everyone who lives for the morally questionably girlies and adores Aabria’s incredible rp

Genna

It makes it soo dang juicy that Erika and Lou don't know 👏🏼Per👏🏼form👏🏼ance👏🏼

bluebluebutton

Yeah, it seems she's forgotten their multiple voiced concerns about the Citadel. The wild thing is that listeners adopt Suvi's claims as fact.

bluebluebutton

Narrator voice: She did not, in fact, know better than to attempt to deceive a witch.

bluebluebutton

Glad he rode in when he did! I'm curious to hear if Ame's choice leading to Eursulon finding his family does anything to change her tune. Probably not, but here's hoping!

Morgan Perkins

I love Suvi’s character so much. She’s complicated and makes mistakes and that leaves so much room for interesting character growth. And while Ame had her reasons, I don’t think there’s a clear right and wrong for what went down at the end of season 2 and it’s perfectly reasonable for Suvi to be pissed. Ame (and the fox) basically set off a bomb in Suvi’s home, and Ame hasn’t even asked if anyone was hurt. At the same time, Ame has a lot going on too. I love that there is no clear cut right or wrong.

Morgan Perkins

Also, this may be the most elder millennial niche reference ever, but all I could envision when Brennan described the “statue” garden was the scene in Rainbow Brite “The Beginning of Rainbow Land” when the Sprites have to run across this gloomy expanse and get struck by lightning, turning them into ice statues. Just me? https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DpLapCht3Yo

Oakenguard

Eh, Suvi is just trying to hurt her friends at this point, nothing else. Whether they "have it coming" or not, she has certainly given up trying to understand the why of what happened, not that she ever really tried. It is a petty and small way to act.

Oakenguard

I think Suvi is there for something like "duty" (which is probably close to how Suvi understands love?) to what her relationship with Ame and Eursalon was? She thinks she's there to help, but I feel like the ice queen act really just makes it obvious that she wants them to hurt as bad as she felt hurt when they ran. And she still doesn't understand why lol

Oakenguard

If she needs information, she can freaking ask what happened lol... not put on the whole Ice Queen act and wait for her moment to kick Ame. She makes wild assumptions, gets mad when her friends fail to communicate perfectly, and acts like she's in the right. It makes me absolutely furious.

Oakenguard

I'm so dang invested in whether the attempt works out or not. It is preeeeeetty devious... but there's a certain confidence/arrogance about the wizards that makes me want them to fail somehow. I may have issues with certain kinds of authority/institutions/displays of certain kinds of power >.>

The Overthinker

Suvi calling out the harm of the escape was badass. I’m team Suvi. Fight me.

Morgan Belcher

growth is realizing that even though suvi makes me stressed out and sad, she’s being a daughter and a friend in the ways she knows how and growing alongside her friends. i love aabria’s work here so much!!!

Cocomoose

This two week wait is going to be brutal. Like the fraction between Ame and Suvi is sooo real knowing that they both have made errors and suck at assertive communication which who isnt. Can tell the Ame being a peace keeper wants to say so much more but is hard to apologize when your good friend got hurt by your actions of leaving and causing chaos rightfully soo. However Suvi has the right to feel sooo hurt and her hurt turns into anger. I hope they are able to see the error of both their ways but hope that Suvi can try to be more understanding and so her true feelings which again is so human and hard to do. Such amazing story telling truly is.

Oakenguard

The rant was the exact opposite to me lol... it truly pissed me off. I'm not saying that Ame or Eursalon haven't messed up their communication with Suvi or that they haven't been kind of ungrateful, but that rant was not righteous. Suvi seems to have no idea why Ame and Eursalon felt they had to run (as the fascist-y imperial guards swarm for making a misstep). The rant was an attempt to hurt Ame for Suvi having been hurt. That's it. It was based in self-righteous "intellect" and "logic" as opposed to Ame's self-righteous sense of "morality", and it was even more cruel for the implication that Ame had failed to be grateful to a host that had done her no wrong. Suvi fails to see at every turn what we all know: the citadel's power structures are fucked up and scary, and those things are what spooked them so bad in the first place... I mean dang dude. She couldn't be more blind, more cruel, or more petty.

Oakenguard

I'm kinda spooked cause Suvi plays to win, Ame tries to make peace... and that seems a recipe for disaster. I think Suvi is gonna put Ame down hard (too unjust for me not to get spicy about), and she may just get away with it.

Oakenguard

Team Ame and Eursalon reporting in. What time and where =p

Cocomoose

So true!!! Which can and will be a disaster and doing anything to win. I feel that Ame will do her best to make piece but hope she is able to stand up for herself as well knowing the fire that Suvi can bring but also knowing that Ame can bring it in her own different ways. In the end I know it’s part of growth and friendship/family and that in the end they both are right and wrong at the same time.

Oakenguard

Suvi putting conditions and threats on the actions of her "friends" to control them is a pretty big red flag. Starting to remind me of Steel.

Oakenguard

Yep that was nooooot nice to listen to lol. But hey at least Suvi got a W over Ame... or something?

C. A. Whyse

I think what's so interesting about Ame and Suvi's fight is that, as with fights in a relationship where the people care deeply, each party has its merit, but often assert their point the wrong way. Ame has a tendency to be duplicitous, while Suvi will bottle things up and lash out in ways that make her feel powerful. I think, at the end of the day, the two are still very much getting to know one another (again) and their selves in the process.

Bryan

Suvi saying “Spit it out” did something vile to me… and that’s all I’d like to say on the subject Edit: I finished the episode and I’m dead now… 💀 <- that’s me, but it’s ok because Eursalon is back 🥴

Bryan

Not sure I’ve ever heard the word “retinue” used more than 3 or 4 times before in my life, I have since more than doubled that number since listening to “The Retinue” 🤘🏻😑🤘🏻

Oakenguard

Her reaction not being "the healthiest" or "the most constructive" is just my point. She isn't spitting truth. She is maliciously using Ame's mistakes to hurt her for a win, to make herself feel better after their chaos (which the citadel is literally causing) caused problems. I refuse to give her a win for outright cruelty... she doesn't have to be "saturated in therapy/speech culture" to make a choice that is even a little constructive. I think, in the end, it is a fascinating character choice from Aabria, but it is not, in any way, a character win. It is super freaking sad.

Sam A.

"Homie is five foot one" lmao

Leith H.

The words of the first witch of the world's heart that are carved into this courtyard have got to be "Be kind" right?

Ecceptable

She didn't wait for her moment to "kick Ame". She used resources and connections to cross the world and risked her life and her connection to her father/magic in order to save Ame's life, because Ame would die if she weren't there. When Ame literally asked Suvi to say what Suvi was angry about, Suvi told her. I think that's fair. Ame and Ursalon caused a lot of damage and death, to others and to themselves, because they wouldn't wait for Steel. In return, Steel took Ame to get immediate, extended, and free medical care and provided housing and training for Ursalon. Ursalon and Ame blew something up on their way out of the Citadel, and Steel and the Citadel are once again providing the resources needed to save Ame's life. I want the friends to make up, and Suvi can be a mean brat sometimes, but Suvi has every right to be mad as hell.

Ecceptable

If the Citadel is fascist, what is the Ice Witch with the inaccessible guarded castle and a garden full of her frozen victims? How about a tiny cabal of unelected people deciding the fate of magic, especially if, when they can't get a consensus, they plot to murder one of their own and eliminate her station? I get that witches and spirits read as more metaphors than reality, but in the narrative they are real. The Citadel healed Ame. Her "sisters" are plotting to kill her. I think that Suvi has a real point in terms of which power structure and which people Ame is quick to self-righteously judge and which she is very, very willing to give the benefit of the doubt.

Witch of the Wandering Thought

I came straight to the comments after listening to this episode for the drama and boy did everyone deliver lol This conflict between Suvi and Ame is sooo well done, 👏👏 it’s real. It’s so real because it ISNT clear or healthy communication. Sure, conflict in adult relationships shouldn’t be communicated in this way, but I barely classify our lovely protags as adults. And you can only really know how to “act right” when it’s modeled, or you learn through correction. When has Suvi had that opportunity? I think Ame hasn’t had a lot of practice with anyone other than Ren….so good. . I hope both characters are able to make up and it’ll all be love again, sure. But this isn’t a Disney special, And I’m here for everyone’s messiness, mistakes and triumphs. I’m so excited for the character growth. And I can’t wait 2 whole weeks for Eursulon to have no idea what he is walking into.

Ecceptable

I agree entirely with you that Suvi needs to stop justifying parts of her society. (I would love to see DND mechanics applied to long, slow, consensus-building social justice movements in wizard society. Tackle that, dice goblins!) And wizard society is a clear reflection of real society while spirits/witches are not. But it galls me to see them be like, "How DARE they lock up Ursalon's sister in the Kasilov Collection? How dare the derrick imprison Naram?" and then breeze by a thousand sisters frozen as part of the Ice Witch's garden all, "This is just a scary thing that's magic. Witches be like that and we definitely shouldn't even consider trying to knock this place down like we knocked down the derrick for imprisoning one dude." Shout, Suvi. Shout.

Ecceptable

I think I'd be less Team Suvi if Ame and Eursalon were a little more Team Suvi, if that makes sense. Whataboutism is real. Holding people to their own standards is also real. Don't be horrified by the injustice of the Kasilov Collection and then be like, "Eh. This ice garden of corpses is just like a bird's plumage display. Try to understand."

lil guy

I loved this episode so much!! Unrelated but, for the newer episodes I can't find transcripts on spotify or patreon. Am I just missing them, or have they not been uploaded yet?

lil guy

What a beautiful ahoohoo

Alex Ochoa

Oh man! I think next episode we’ll get to meet the coven. So looking forward to that! This episode was pretty awesome :)

Carrie Mook Bridgman

I finished the episode and said, "Hang on. It can't be over yet. They just got everyone in the door. What was that, half an hour?" Try nearly an hour and a half.

Oakenguard

Two weeks waiting for Eursulon to get in the mix is gonna be tough!! Suvi was intent to blame Ame for pretty much everything at the end there, but Eursulon ran from Steel as well... can't imagine he'll let all that blame falling on Ame really fly. But yea the drama and conflict had me steamin' and flying to the comments to defend Ame by the end =p. I'm suuuuper curious where things will end up now that Suvi is taking some serious shots at her friends. Two whole weeks of waiting!!

Glue Wilson

The way that Suvi copes with pain and betrayal and fear is extremely infuriating but also extremely entertaining to follow as a listener. From the outside I can really sympathize with her perspective and can easily see that her mean-queen-routine is how she is expressing her very legitimate reasons for feeling hurt, but god damn if I was in Ame's shoes it would be so hard to not clap back at the moment where Suvi called out Ame for being judgmental in the midst of behaving like the most judgmental judge to ever have judged.

Carrie Mook Bridgman

The thing I noticed was Suvi referring to "Bear" even when she and Ame were alone. Is she assuming she's being spied on? I wonder why....

Witch of the Wandering Thought

I’m really excited and interested to see how Eursulon’s dynamic in the trio contributes to this tension. For the record, I think everyone is right and wrong in this for different reasons. But I will say that I did audibly gasp and listened more than once to Suvi’s angry monologue…I think she’s right to be hurt and angry. (But no- it’s not right pop off on your girl like THAT) but op.🤭 She did it. And it’s out there now lol This is probably the fox’s fault anyway 🤣

spirit of sumthin sumthin

I definitely think the feeling is born of that guilt and grew. Like "it's my fault you're here and you're alone in a strange place. I'm alone too and I know things, so I'll be your big sister" vibes.

Zer

Anybody else feel like Ame or more so Erika was teeing up that Suvi-splosion? I recall something about pre-negotiations for character conflicts (mentioned in a fireside). I wonder if this is an artifact of that or maybe not, idk. Just curious.

spirit of sumthin sumthin

I really like how, because of the way the PCs are connected to the various worlds, *where* they are very much plays into *who* they are at anytime. Suvi and Ame are both judgey McJugertons 😂

Krusty Bo Busty

I didn’t realize ame learned the polymorph spell! During the whole scene with suvi she had polymorphed into a doormat

Oakenguard

Muahaha, never mind wizarding, Sonder works a chiller kind of magic =p I'll blame the citadel instead of the fox, that way all the bases are covered one way or another

Mubarak Abdi

As someone who flipped from team Ame in season 1 to team Suvi at the end of season 2, I still can't quite wrap my head around why Ame HAD to leave right then and there. Season 1 I could at least understand because the priority to Eursalon and Ame was rescuing Naram and I can certainly understand (not necessarily agree with) saving my people even if the cost is other people. But leaving the citadel when there are 3 days left, Steel needs 12 hours leaving them with 2 and a half days, a quick return to the cottage for Ame to replenish whatever she needs to and then an instantaneous teleport to the North Pole was more than feasible. It really felt like a I just need to go with no explanation or justification

Kamuraki

As someone who constantly plays a wizard, Suvi's chastising of Ame felt fully warranted. You don't be a bad house guest for people who can cast fireballs.

Kamuraki

I'll serve as your second

LadyMage

I also want to point out that the delay didn't have anything to necessarily due with Ame. At the point that Ame was notified of this coven meeting, shit went down with the war and the Citadel got put on lockdown. If I remember correctly, Ame was going to be allowed to leave, it's just that the teleporters that would've gotten her to the cottage sooner were not going to be available for use. I know that Ame felt like something was wrong or felt that it was important for her to go back to the cottage first but...you can take five minutes to explain to your friend so that she can help you better lol.

Mubarak Abdi

Yeah I feel like there's questions to be asked first, like no one in the citadel can cast Teleport? Suvi is an archmage's apprentice and Steel is clearly a high level wizard, either one of them should be able to cast the spell and then teleport to the North Pole with the gift from Sly

Ecceptable

For me it's the other way around. I still blame Eursalon and Ame for Port Talon. It's like blowing up much of a prison in order to free an unjustly imprisoned person when the Governor is on the way over to formally set him free. It still irks me that they haven't reckoned it. (Still hoping for a widow or orphan of Port Talon to go after one of them.) I can see why Ame panicked in the Citadel. It's a big structure with many working parts. Even if Steel was there to help, she might not be able to deal with the logistics or the bureaucracy. It ended up being a big, unnecessary, damaging mess and they're lucky it wasn't worse, but I can at least understand. Port Talon was just awful callousness.

tayycro

Was the dressing down of Ame harsh? Yes. Was it also completely fair and warranted? 1000%

Cocomoose

Agreed to all of this and not being a Disney special lol. I was so conflicted at the end. And see where they both are coming from. I love them both so much but I’m like Suvi chill you passive aggressive/ aggressive self. And I’m like Ame you are so passive come on bring it back. At her.

✨ Marlee ✨

Eursulon’s music when he took off on the horse was so warm and vibrant!! The only thing that made it better was hearing him hollering in the background as they took off. This story is very very good and I’m just constantly blown away at how Taylor’s sound design perfectly complements and elevates the story to incredible heights. 💜✨💜

Witch of the Wandering Thought

AGREEED I hope Ame can learn to set/keep some boundaries….i hope Suvi can learn a healthy way to deal with her anger issues and learn to not take everything personally…. But healthy relationships never drive the plot 😬

Cha Cha Rae

Ok so y’all might have finally convinced me I need to learn to draw horses. Eursulon ONCE AGAIN making me weep (extremely affectionate)

Cha Cha Rae

Also Suvi out here laying everything out on the table for her best friend is so raw and on-point. Needed to be said 🥂

ceeg

I am going to kick Suvi’s ass

MagnaniMel

Oof. Suvi should be angry with how Ame and Fox left, but I don't think its fair to Ame about being in a coma. Steel pretty much told her she wanted to study her like a science experiment and so far Ame's intuitions about the Citadel have been right.

LadyMage

I definitely understood Ame's hesitation with Steel there. However, similar to how Port Talon went down, by not utilizing the help offered by Steel or at least looking for alternative means of finding the root causes of the problems (who placed the curse on Ame and Grandmother Ren, who in the Citadel gave permission to harvest blood from a Great Spirit, etc.), Ame is allowing for these situations to repeat themselves possibly in even worse manners.

LadyMage

I guess now that she remembers all the details of her station, she is more equipped to handle problems as they come. But I don't think burning bridges with potential allies is helpful. If she burns all her connections to the Citadel, how is she to get back in there to stop them from doing something terrible? I guess she can join her coven in just completely stomping on the Citadel and Empire, but she is supposed to intercede on behalf of mortals. Even Ren wasn't entirely against the Citadel and their wizards. Cautious sure but she maintained friendships there.

Brandon Carbaugh

Man, Eursulon's absence is never more sorely felt than the instant Suvi and Ame get back in a room together and there's no modulating third voice between them! There's a lot of stories where you understand why two people are friends. But there are few stories that capture that feeling of a perfect triangle of THREE friends, whose presence is all required in the relationship, or the chemistry gets weird and the seesaw kinda wobbles. Ame, Suvi, and Eursulon don't just complement each other -- they're each incomplete without BOTH of the others. They're like a band. When the drummer's out sick, the vibes get weird in the studio. It's especially interesting to me how the group dynamics of the main trio explicitly do NOT align with the broader dynamics of the magical domains they represent. In the rest of Umora, it's witches acting as the go-between for wizards and spirits. In this house? Nah. It's the wizard and the witch who most often butt heads, and the wild one who bridges the gap emotionally. It's such a fun little dramatic irony.

Brandon Carbaugh

When you have to leave in a hurry, getting "five more minutes" multiple times in a row starts to establish a pattern. Sometimes a soft no is just a hard no that hasn't been spoken aloud yet, and you don't have time to mess around and wait for it.

LadyMage

That's certainly true. I guess I wish Ame had verbally put her foot down about it. If at that point Steel had said no or made up additional excuses, I could then be like "No, yeah, something's weird." But she instead agrees to wait, then rushes out, then allows her familiar to cause a large fire, and risk dangerous teleportation travel. What would've happened if she hadn't ended up in Toma? Or if Eursulon hadn't found his sister? If Suvi got in worse trouble and wasn't able to get to the north pole? All's well that end's well but one day it won't end well if this keeps up.

Essie Ruth

Straight up sobbing at Roro’s first spell.

Sanna G.

Mount Suvius

Cocomoose

I feel that Ame is still wanting relationship with the citadel in a small way but only having one experience of wizards and citadel can be extremely overwhelming especially with out Ren there I bet if Ame still had some ways navigating the citadel with her I feel she would pick it up but also get a feeling she is needing to fill big shoes and really got thrown into this in a blink of the eye and make due. I get a sense she is learning from these experiences.

ceeg

Her spells are no match for my healthy communication skills

Oakenguard

Agreed that Suvi's anger is somewhat justified, but that ice queen act was all but begging Ame to walk right into that tirade, where she held all that stuff over her head as though everything Suvi, Steel, and the Citadel did was for Ame's benefit out of the kindness of their little wizard hearts. It one thousand percent wasn't. Steel wants control, so does the Citadel, and I'm not sure how far away Suvi is from the goals of the previous two. Ame and Eursalon picked up on that, and they eventually ran in a panic... so it all kinda seems like a forced error to me. As for the damage and death, Ame and Eursalon made choices consistent with their morals, and despite the destruction that was wrought, I don't think they were ever in the wrong (maybe with the exception the panicked flight and that reckless teleporty bonfire). I’d also say that those resources the Citadel “gives away” to Ame and Eursalon feel like they come with a big ole catch... like Ame and Eursalon are just supposed to accept the things the Citadel does to maintain power because the things they "give" can be nice, but they don't. And they don't owe that acceptance to Suvi, Steel, or the Citadel at large either.

Witpending

When Eursulon rode off on the horse, the music made me feel like a kid again ❤️ magic

Abigail W

I’ve never been more down with inter-party conflict 🤌🏾 Let them cook! It will be worth it!

Abigail W

Also, Eursulon’s black as hell for that “I’m gonna go the other way” with a Nat 20 🫡

Nye-Low

The thing that bothers me the most about Suvi is that it feels like she ignored Ame’s feelings regarding the uegency of getting to the North Pole. Everything is getting locked down, and “just keep waiting”.

Anonymous Developer

Juicy ass episode with some Juicy ass comments I for one, am simply rolling on the floor that immediately after the "I will never forgive you IF-" speech, xxxx rocks up with a xxxx cheering "I FOUND MY xxxx! xxxx GAVE ME A xxxx AND IM HERE NOW!" Like. Give your poor wizard girl a break from her eco-terrorist bff's wild ride lmao

Michael Munene

After listening to the episode, and thinking about it, Suvi is not wrong in being angry with Ame. Sure, she could be handling it better, but she's not wrong. Ame needs to be raked over the coals a bit for her actions, and the consequences that follow them. Ultimately, because of Ame's explosive exit, Eursulon (and most likely Ame) can never go back to the Eirion, and who knows what might happen to Ame's contacts there as well. There's gonna be some hard conversations next episode.

Ecceptable

I agree that they made choices consistent with their morals, and (I believe) those morals were very wrong. Hundreds of people died the night they freed Naram. Steel, a powerful sorcerer who could have ordered Morrow in prison and told the wizards to let Naram go peacefully, arrived in the morning. I think they meant well, and I know that if the dice had rolled differently it would have been a much better situation, but I really get stuck on that. Ame and Eursalon, whose quest fever and inexperience cost hundreds of lives, don't trust Steel? I'm amazed at her kindness and trust in them.

Kenzie

Totallyyyyyy. The Witch of the Worlds Heart really shouldn’t be that quick to burn bridges either

Kenzie

Exactly this. She burned that bridge way to flippantly

Kenzie

And like as a Witch, she should know better than to be a bad houseguest??

Sil

You gotta stop doing the Wizard hubris so well, I'm over here just waiting for Ame to pop off & remind Suvi she hasn't wayshadowed anyone, so she can cool her jets on the guilt projection. DAMN IT Y'ALL, I DIDN'T HAVE PLANS TO GET THIS INVESTED IN THESE CHARACTERS!!

Kenzie

I also feel like Suvi going there out of ‘duty’ is helping feed her Justification Machine in that, in Suvi’s mind, this makes her the Better Friend. She’s showing up for Ame even when she’s mad at Ame, bc that’s what good friends do (not blow up your house and then dip and leave you to deal with the consequences). By coming here Suvi gets the ego boost of being the bigger person

Cocomoose

I feel that same is doing the best she can. Having to take on that huge role of being the witch of the worlds heart is a big shoes to fill and is flying by the seat of her pants and doesn’t have the guidance any more. Yes she should be put in her place and will learn but also Suvi needs to realize that she too needs to be put in her place as well. I do hope that they can actually talk with each other and validate each other.

Kenzie

For the Witch of the Worlds Heart, Ame sure has a paternalistic attitude towards humans. I’ve been thinking this for a while, but Ame’s reaction to the frozen prisoners really cemented it for me.

Cocomoose

The beauty of burning bridges is that they can be rebuilt and in the rebuilding phase build them stronger. The strength of Ame is she is humble and can apologize and learn from what she did and how to do better.

HexMix

I can't wait for Suvi to get hit with the realization that her mom Drugged and brainwashed her. Maybe THAT will be enough to make her realize the Citadel and it's wizards kinda suck.

Jocelyn Frey

Yes thank you for this comment! It is not healthy communication on either side and man it’s real and hard to listen to!! Reminds me too much of me in my 20s …

Ecceptable

I think it's because the Citadel is a more apparent and intentional parallel to human injustice, while the witches and spirits read as more metaphors for nature. Often I feel silly holding them to the same standards. But people are real quick to overlook the Great Bear alternately neglecting and eating his kids, the Witches plotting to murder their new sister to increase their grip on power, and the fact that Orima's response to her husband's kidnapping is laying waste to innocent villages and growing murder-weeds from the corpses of those who couldn't escape.

Ecceptable

Would depend on who put a curse on Ame to brainwash her out of a lifetime of Grandmother Ren's knowledge. Could be wizards (you never know, they are devious), could be the spirits, could be her fellow witches.

spirit of sumthin sumthin

One of the things I love about d&d, and this story in particular, is how players can act in a way that is completely sincere and morally right, and be completely in the wrong as it relates to legit parts of the larger world. And because the pcs have such strong connections to the power structures of the world, there is great weight and risk with every misalignment. Those connected to the Spirit have every right to take issue with the forced captivity of spirits. Those connected to the Empire have a right to take issue with large scale destruction and death within the empire.

spirit of sumthin sumthin

Also just need to point out that so far in the grown up game, Suvi is the only one who hasn't needed help with anything. Ame needed her curse broken, Eursulon needed to find the sword/honor/breath. Suvi came to pay respects and help

Ecceptable

It's odd, but now that Suvi went Cold Blue Fury on Ame I feel more charitably about her and the witches. Someone in the narrative is pissed off and yelling so I don't have to!

Brandon Rilling

Paraphrasing what Grandma Wren said, Steel is great, but at the end of the day her moral code is guided by what the citadel deems moral and just

Dervla

Every time you end on a cliffhanger and everytime im like !!! No! Not a cliffhange!! Now i have to wait another fortnight (I love the waiting and i love that you live up to anticipation) The sunlight horse!!! The pancakes!!! The end! The politics of witches! Im in love with this world

Emily Pes

To be fair, Suvi is the only one who has had a large support system available to her.

Cocomoose

I feel that the citadel in aspects has many good intentions and wants the best for wizards and humans and such but their good intentions can lead to short sidedness but also can go down to a power structure as well they have loads of power and those who they deem more powerful like spirits and witches or they can be of equal power offsets the power structure. I feel the citadel is not all bad but I get a sense of elitism from many of the citadel wizards.

The Spirit of Vicious Inspiration

from my own conjecture, the Citadel continues to move towards an “obtaining power at all costs” system. some of that stems from Kalaya’s speech about how the Citadel used to be more just a university but is now the military arm of the Empire. some of that stems from Morrow’s thinking that capturing Naram like he did was his ticket to the top. and with that one we saw Steel say that was over the line and would deal with it… but with Eursolon freeing Naram we don’t see how she would have dealt with it. maybe she punishes him to the max and fully condemns his actions, or maybe she secretly takes some of his setup info back to the Citadel to further improve behind closed doors (less likely, but not impossible). there just have been several signs pointing to the Citadel wanting growth at all costs, spirits & natural world be damned. are they all like that? doubtful. is Steel? also doubtful. but is the Empire using the Citadel for that purpose? likely

The Spirit of Vicious Inspiration

and none of that is to let witches & spirits off the hook for their transgressions. this is just my POV on your “why is the Citadel bad” question (and they’re not per se, it’s just that they have several bad parts that are becoming a bigger piece of their infrastructure)

Evelina Meiklejohn

I'm always so overjoyed with how the acting, narration, and stunning music and sound scaping makes every feeling feel so... BIG! And GRAND! I'm truly swept away every episode. <3

Cristian Valdez Ramirez

She had to get bailed out a bunch in the first arc coz she was bossing people around and got court marshalled.

Sydney Jay

I can't help but wonder if Steel still would have gone through with The Music Box Plan if Ame had done what she'd asked and waited/been teleported at Steel's convenience....like, would Suvi have been the one with The Music Box or would it have been one of the other wizards on the ship...?

Ren Dara

Ahhhh I’m so glad the girls took it there and that Eursulon interrupted before we could hear a rebuttal! I’m so hype for the next ep. Anybody else finish RPDR S16 while arc 3 started? I can’t help but hear every “sister” from the witches as if they were Plane Jane 😭 had to relisten to the final act of this ep just to take all the shade out the congenial conversations.

rocket-flash

I totally agree the Citadel has both good and bad points, but the bad points (ie: capturing/not truly understanding spirits, only valuing one type of intelligence in magic, having many expendable alchemists/wizards working in harsh conditions, and somehow destroying an entire ecosystem to create a desert) all point to a strict set of values that ends up crushing a lot of other good in the world if it doesn't adhere to their rules/idea of progress. I think those things are enough to make me distrust anyone acting as a symbol/front for the Citadel, even if I like their personality and understand their reasoning. I don't agree with all of Ame or Eursulon's actions but I think it will be easier for them to grow and improve as individuals than to reform the problems in a huge institution like the citadel.

ceeg

I have a feeling that the Music Box Plan only happened because Suvi explain to Steel how important and powerful the coven is, suddenly Steel wasn’t so dismissive of the meeting like she was to Ame

C. A. Whyse

I don't think it's quite that simple. I think that while the Wizards seem to be at war much of the time, witches are more subtle in their machinations. I think seeing the way Pomoroy (sp?) views Grandmother Wren is a hint in that regard. I also think there will be more revealed as the Conclave goes on.

CommodoreBlue

If one of the coven catches Suvi in a lie, will they cast Tongue-Tie? 🤔 Would be hilarious if Suvi and Ame had Othershoes cast on them for fighting, but I can’t see one of the coven cursing Ame. And I feel like Suvi is going to get hit with Spellwarping Curse at some point in this arc. The homebrew witch spells are so cool!! I can’t wait to see them in action. Even Ame’s cackle cantrip

Cheese

y'all can't end with THAT confrontation and then THAT follow-up and now I gotta wait TWO WEEKS 😭😭😭😭

jeebz

Not related to this episode but I'm curious about the couple that Ame gave the cock ring to.

seventhrib

Surprised at how many people take Suvi's cruelty towards Ame as a kind of righteous telling-it-like-it-is. I don't think being that much of a dick towards your best friend is justified simply by being angry with them! That's not a respectful way to treat a friend!

CC

Indri alluding to the overlap between being "The Witch of Wind and Stars" and "Sky" reminded me that there is actually a NOAA telescope called "SUVI" haha. (SUVI stands for "Solar Ultraviolet Imager." It's used to monitor the sun.) NOAA is a WBN fan confirmed??? Details: https://www.swpc.noaa.gov/products/goes-solar-ultraviolet-imager-suvi

Adarsh Nednur

I mean, Ame literally exploded Suvi's hometown and almost killed 4 people because she couldn't wait two hours to get to Toma, only to get to the North Pole and find that none of the other witches were there and might not be there for hours, if not days. This is a lesson that her and Eursulon have now collectively learned at least 3 times over. And Suvi *still* set that beef aside and dropped everything to come to the North Pole because Ame would be in danger otherwise. I love Ame to death but I think the anger is... kind of justified 😬 Imagine if your best friend set your house on fire because they were worried about being late to a meeting, only to find out they were the first one there? I'm not an angry guy but I think some F bombs would get dropped tbh

Adarsh Nednur

I think there are two levels of "The Citadel is bad." 1) The Citadel is HUGE, and they anoint a lot of people with status and resources, and they simply don't have the ability to monitor or provide oversight to all of those people, so wizards like Morrow will inevitably exist and use their Citadel-granted power to evil ends. Is that inherently the Citadel's fault? Not necessarily, if they do their best to squash it out when it's found (like it appears Steel was going to do), but it's still a form of widespread evil that wouldn't exist without the accumulated power of the Citadel. 2) The Citadel is a giant machine, and lots of things get ground up by that machine. Its goals and incentives are not necessarily evil, but they're also not necessarily good. They have fundamentally reshaped the geography of Umora to create the seat of their power. They are at war with Gaothmai and Rhuv, and maybe those factions are bad and that war is just, but innocent people like Kalaya and her family get caught in the process. They work artificers like Hana and Gult to the bone to create weapons to sustain that war, and give them no opportunity to hope for anything more. They imprison spirits—likely with varying levels of deservedness. I think maybe "The Citadel is bad" is not the way I would think of it, but more that "It's reasonable to be skeptical or suspicious or mistrustful of the Citadel." Just like I would be of any empire, at that. That's not to say that many of the witches and spirits don't do things that are just as bad, but the witches and spirits are also not quite coordinating with each other in the same Machiavellian way to achieve common ends. At most the witches are a politically deliberative body, whereas the Citadel is an arm of the Empire's will. And spirits are just... wild.

Adarsh Nednur

I think I have trouble with the "We don't know if we can trust Steel to be on our side when push comes to shove" reasoning when every time Steel says, "Hey, I am on your side, please give me 1 day/12 hours/2 hours to get to where you are, confirm that everything is as you say, and demonstrate just how much I am fully on your side," they decide they can't trust her enough to wait. Like, yeah, sometimes people say all the right words but then aren't there for you when the chips are down, but if you never give them a chance to demonstrate whether they're on your side or not then... that's not really on them. This is especially backed up by how Steel literally gave Suvi an airship to get to the North Pole because she needed to get there, which means that when someone finally trusted her enough to let her demonstrate her commitment, she came through. (I get people feel different ways about the music box thing but I think the airship was at least clearly not contingent on going along with that plan.)

Adarsh Nednur

I truly don't understand the reaction of "Suvi should be trying to understand why they did this." Suvi had all the same information Ame did. Ame and the Fox set off an explosion in the Citadel and nearly killed four people simply because they were unwilling to wait two hours (to get to a meeting that, I might note, no one else has even arrived at yet), and Suvi came to the North Pole for them anyway. Ame and Eursulon are "nicer" than Suvi, so it's easy to feel that Suvi being "mean" to them is unfair. But the idea that someone can blow up your home and you should still enter the conversation wanting to hear their point of view is... not something I agree with. Would it have been very magnanimous of Suvi and made her the bigger person if she did so? Yeah, sure. But I don't think it's a reasonable expectation. People are literally acting like, "Hey, I know I set off a bomb in a crowded town square, but you don't have to YELL about it." (To be clear, I love Ame and Eursulon just as much as Suvi, but we fundamentally don't have any evidence that anything bad would have happened if they had waited or that Steel wouldn't have stuck to her word, so I think there's nothing that justifies that destruction they left in their wake. Especially because this is a lesson they ALREADY should have learned in Port Talon.) Also Suvi is clearly treating them as "witch" and "spirit" because she can at least stomach the idea that they felt compelled by their duties in those capacities to pop off. If they were instead acting as Ame and Eursulon and still deecided they had so little respect for Suvi's home, then things are... much more dire. I think they will reconcile soon enough and Suvi will understand that they were outsiders in the Citadel who felt pressured and trapped, and Ame and Eursulon will chill out and figure out that their instinctive actions have consequences and they can't keep treating wizards' lives as expendable because they decide they can't wait, but in the meantime I think Suvi's anger is overwhelmingly reasonable.

seventhrib

Well - the Citadel is kind of a militarised police state and Suvi's last act towards Ame and Eursolon was to instruct guards to arrest them. So I think their instinct to escape was understandable and probably correct. Even putting that aside, taking this friction as a beef between friends where both have cause to be wounded, Suvi really twisted the knife in a way that seemed designed to hurt and it does not sit well with me. Certainly not something to be celebrated as an act of bold honesty, self actualisation or what have you

Aabria Iyengar

Hey! Hey CC you're the COOLEST PERSON EVER. I had no idea about this! 😭

Oakenguard

Hehe, this ep certainly got me spicy =p I think the "Suvi should be trying to understand why they did this" thought is pretty simple. She is presented as highly intelligent, so I kinda expect her to act with curiosity and a deep hunger to know why the hell what happened happened, especially since it messed her up so bad emotionally. Instead, she lashes out and labels Ame and Eursalon as witch and spirit, two dangerous entities that need to be controlled. Honestly, I'm not even mad she's mad... she should be, like you say. She might even decide that Ame and Eursalon need to be arrested or killed for being dangerous to average people (and the Citadel), and I'd get that too (though I’d still be pissed). But she lost respect when she acted childish instead... she's avoiding the problem (or at least coming at it in the most messed up way possible) and trying to make them hurt just as bad as she is. Freakin’ childish, especially with the ice queen act and her supposed elevated position as the Wizard Sky. I happen to think that, despite Ame’s recklessness, she was deeply justified in trying to get the hell out, so it makes me even more angry when Suvi decides to kick her while she’s down. I mean c'mon lol... if Suvi can't stomach her so-called "friends" and the actions they take, then they aren't her friends. If the stakes are that Ame and Eursalon tried to kill people deliberately as murderers and terrorists, then friendship over. Suvi need not come to the north pole... story over. But Ame didn’t do that bonfire on purpose... it was a forced, panicky error caused by a sloppy order and Steel’s draconian methods. Suvi probably knows that... otherwise Ame and Eursulon would be in chains or iced by her or Steel. Neither Suvi nor the Citadel give enough of a shit about Ame’s station to not do that. But that’s not what happened. Instead, we got her treating Ame like shit, lashing out, and overall being outright cruel to make herself feel better. She is truly being the opposite of reasonable.

Oakenguard

PS Sorry for coming off as spicy, I am just very invested =p

Erika Iverson

Hey Taylor, does the use of the French Horn indicate that our new friend the Sun Horse is connected to the Citadel? Or is it just the French Horn is the best instrument ever? (Signed, former French Horn player)

Oakenguard

I don't think Steel's respect goes very far. Like she has professional respect and likes the person Wren was (and probably that Soft and Stone were such great friends to her), but Steel knows nothing about the Witch of the World's heart or her business. I kinda think Steel being a friend goes only so far as Wren is perceived as under the Citadel's power/influence (or weaker than it) and that it more or less floats around at surface level. Wren was probably not accosted because she was never threatening. I'd also say that Steel and the Citadel are crazy draconian, and that justifying their extreme actions with “the war” is how they get away with cruelty and crushing their own people in the name of control, the very thing that scared Ame and Eursulon so bad. Ame and Eursulon are certainly responsible for their actions, but Ame cannot submit to the Citadel's authority without her station becoming irrelevant, something she clearly will never do since she believes in Grandmother Wren and the Witch of the World’s Heart so much, and Eursulon's actions are justified outside of the Citadel, Suvi, and Steel's understanding of the world, but not in a way that is alien or “spirit” or not understandable to a normal person. I guess what I’m trying to say is that Ame and Eursulon have to/want to take responsibility for their actions in ways that are outside the Citadel entirely... whether that’s good or bad is up to you, but I tend to think much more good than bad. Ame knows she fucked up, so now it’s on her to do better next time and to not endanger innocents when she's really afraid. Eursulon knows what might happen if quest fever takes him too far, so next time he acts with full knowledge of what he is doing. Finally, I hold Suvi’s standard to what she presents, which is the persona of a Citadel elite with a lot of power. If she holds herself up as a leader, I kinda expect her to act like more than a petulant child... I expect her to act like a dang wizard that knows witches, spirits, and has some inkling of how the world is working around her. If anything, I hold her to the highest standard of all because of her enormous privilege in the Citadel, and so I’m most disappointed when she drops the ball. You could argue that the standard is different or unfair, but her situation is vastly different. She has the power to do just as much harm as Ame and Eursulon, and, if we believe the Citadel wizards, she has much, much more power at her hands than her friends and the rest of the world... I simply expect her to do better.

CC

Ahhhh, wow, thank you Aabria! I'm glad you liked the trivia!! I'm always happy to spread some cool space lore related to my favorite wizard haha 😊 Really enjoying Suvi as a character!!

worldsbeyondnumber

The second one. I just couldn’t conceive of a Sun Horse without some brass. Although maybe it’s not the theme of the horse but of the bridle, whose provenance is yet unknown?? Mysteries abound here, on the hit podcast Worlds Beyond Number. -t

Erika Iverson

Yay! I was just teasing. Mostly it just made me so happy to hear that beautiful sound… but then my brain went into overdrive. I love thinking about the mystery bridle.

Sammi Jacobs

I started this series during a rough time in my life and it honestly brought me much needed joy and excitement! Thank you to the cast and crew for making this awesome series!

Sammi Jacobs

I love that the actors are good friends irl but can still have such intense moments in the show! Suvi and Ame’s interaction had me at the edge of my seat 😭😭😭! Also I love Eursalon is a true friend and tried his best to help his friend despite finally finding his long-lost family 😭😭😭

Gabriel Aviles

The citadel is an institution that spies on its citizens, has no problem doing a “black car sweep” and arresting a bunch of people, are bombing civilians, have spirits in painting jail, and have artificers in indentured servitude. Please, take your pick on why they’re evil, there are even more examples 🤣. Brennan has made it pretty clear that the citadel isn’t just some nice and fun place that is going around doing good. They’re an institution of war, and that’s always evil.

Bria A.

First of all, Taylor, the horse riding score ruined my life in the best way. Secondly, I mentioned this elsewhere, but: *we* as an audience know the Citadel is a power-hungry and self-absorbed institution, but even with that said…Suvi’s ending speech wasn’t wrong (fight me). If I take you to my house to nurse you back to health and you act a goddamn fool on your way out with not even a fleeting thought to the repercussions it would have on me*, your alleged friend—much less the structure of my home—I would also be pissed off, heartbroken, and feel deeply unappreciated. (*For no reason, mind you, because they were still going to leave with Steel anyway — and as we’ve just seen, Suvi wasn’t even late! She was early! 😭)

Bria A.

It’s very much not cruel to say “hey, I was deeply hurt by your choices based on unfounded assumptions, especially when you a) still have not apologized and b) pull out the hypocrite beam as soon as it comes to your own people”. I adore Ame, but this is the third time this has happened and sometimes confrontation is necessary communication, not cruelty.

Bria A.

Thirdly: Though maybe unintentional, wild parallel of the Witch of Hospitality breaking her basic tenants at the Citadel to Suvi having to jump through twenty-six hoops at the ice palace. Which she does, for Ame.

Caitlyn

The sheer number of times I have contemplated this is wild even to me

Oakenguard

oh, fellow witches almost certainly =)

Oakenguard

I get that!! I'm certainly biased against military/police institutions, generally speaking. But yea, I'm not even sure I'd call Steel evil in the sense that she is filled with malice or cruelty and doing bad things for that reason. Rather, I'd say she is trying to do so much for the world under the Citadel's philosophy (which strives toward virtuous knowledge and uplifting others) that she has a tendency to try and control everything, to know everything, even when it really isn't her dang business. That seems like something more destructive than good to the world at large for someone with so much military power, to me at least.

Oakenguard

I don't think Suvi's speech was "wrong" in the sense that what she said isn't true, but her motivations certainly were. I mostly think she was just trying to hurt Ame since she was hurt in the first place. It felt really, really cruel and unjustified for that reason, for me at least. I definitely think Ame messed up her own hospitality rules for Suvi and the Steel, but I'd also say that the thing that made Ame and Eursulon run from the Citadel in the first place was a part of Suvi and the Citadel's so-called "hospitality". Ame and Eursulon clearly felt something was off as the hammer began to fall around them, at that point they felt threatened, and so the Citadel had effectively given them its hospitality and then threatened them to "stay in line or else" in the same breath. Of course Ame and Eursulon wouldn't feel thankful or appreciative at the end... they were just scared. That's the part Suvi hasn't grasped, and that's the whole dang problem. And then she came at Ame with all that vitrol... and maaaaaaan that just wasn't nice to listen to... not at all.

Oakenguard

A bit further, I'd hope that Suvi isn't keeping a tally of how many hoops she's forcing herself to jump through for her friends (and let's be real, she really, really wants to find Ame so she can to put her in her place... so more than a bit selfishly motivated). I'd hope that she truly wants to just help, but it seems to me that if she's counting up all the good she's done for Ame and Eursulon and is waiting for a perfectly weighed return as she holds everything over their heads, she's going to be waiting a long ass time for an equally calculated return. At that point, she would have simply turned her friendships into transactions to be tallied..... and that's mooooore than a bit too cold for my taste. (Which, actually, on another thought, is kind of how Ame's magic reacts and works... in that counting, tallying sort of way, and I wonder if that's part of what makes it magically scary... she's counting, even if she doesn't know it... witches be rad dude).

Peter Wiseman

Probably not. Plan A was definitely to be in direct control of Ame. Music box feels like a plan B.

Bria A.

I may be coming at this from a lens of being frequently overlooked in relationships and I accept that, but it was great for *me* to listen to, personally. I love Ame and Eursulon with all of my heart, but damn, if there were ever an example of “you did not mean to be cruel; that did not mean you were kind.” Frequently running off and doing your own thing out of a sense of justice and leaving your friend in the dust because you assume she’s always going to be there (which, to the point, she still has been) isn’t as noble once said dust settles. Ame needed to hear that in a way that wasn’t couched in the niceties of witches and honored friends, or the underlying fear of a villager who knows deep in their heart not to cross a witch—accidentally or otherwise. Sure, making your friendships strictly transactional is bad; even so, everything we know about Suvi as a trained (born, really) intellectual was going to gravitate to that as a means of processing and that’s her hurdle to overcome. Noticing a sizable deficit in said “transaction” and feeling a way about it is human, and it sucks. Suvi needs to get better at externalizing her feelings, but Ame and Eursulon need to get better at considering them before acting.

Deedee Pendragon

Taylor, the music behind the Sun Horse is absolutely breathtaking and the tonal quality of the french horn is a perfect representation. I was immediately reminded of my childhood watching the Disney animated version of Prokofiev's "Peter and the Wolf" and wonder if that was a particular inspiration?

Mary W

“Is this *all* the secret? I just wanna know what I can say and what I can’t say…” brb screaming for eternity at this adorable scrne

Michelle Neville

I got to this episode and realised I was all caught up so far. Nearly wailed in frustration until I realised this meant I had time to go back and listen to all the Children’s Adventure again! Serendipity works!

Konner

Same. I don't let anyone speak to me that way, I would have dropped Suvi as a friend at this point, it's unacceptable.

Blaze

damn, suvi! they're in the north pole but the weather is not the coldest thing there!

Blaze

right? i need to know if they made it or if he got his dick cut off!

Blaze

while ame wasn't wrong in not trusting the citadel's process and wanted to do it her own way, she is wrong for not communicating it to suvi. suvi have every right to be hurt, ame (and eusulon) got her in trouble and disregarded her feelings and ame still haven't apologize. suvi was being cold but it's understandable and what she said needed to be said.

MKE2ND

Wow, last couple minutes had me conflicted. On one hand I'm like "noooo stop fighting!, you're friends!" And on the other it's "YEAH GET HER!"

leotoffee

I know folks are loving the Suvi/Ame Kendrick Lamar/Drake content, but let me just say, Ro-Ro is an absolute dear and I can't want to see the family back again lol.

The Wizard Strike

Well part of it is being able to infer- they serve “The Empire” and historically an empire becomes an empire through conquest, domination, and erasure of other cultures. There’s also plenty in the narrative to support this. They imprison spirits in the Kassof (idk how to spell it) Collection. They have a underclass of artificers. Steel even says “we’re not a peaceful people” The end of the citadel arc shows the literal police doing raids of the poor district Suvi carries herself with a sense of superiority and disdain for everything she sees as “lower status” which is clearly part of her citadel conditioning, and Brenan and Abría refer to her “Justification machine” as the way she’s able to justify the empire’s actions. Brenan just described empire airships bombing Gaothmai. These are just a few examples, the list could go on And if you listen to the fireside’s the cast clearly understand the citadel and empire are bad- Suvis arc is gonna be about realizing that. It’s a bit subtle now, kind of how, as an American you can go though your country and truly see it as an ideal of freedom and meritocracy- if you’re like Suvi and carry enough privilege that you don’t have to see/think about the under classes your country oppresses both at home and abroad

Glen Petrofski

So the Green man... Is it the same from Grandmother Ren's bed frame?

worldsbeyondnumber

Absolutely. Prokofiev rules. Love the Russian romantics and he’s my favorite of them. And obviously Peter and the wolf in particular was a huge influence in how we thought about the score in general. See if you can hear his Cinderella waltz in ep26! -t

Ashley Teatum

OK I finished my re-listen and I'm here and catching up. Brennan is too good at doing Small Human Speech Patterns.

Steven

To the production of chapter 3, and to Taylor (I believe): French Horn? *chef's kiss*

Jonesey

The top of the world and a buried secret spell it's what you wanted

Erin Michelotti

As a 5'1" homie who would absolutely wreak havoc if anyone came for my husband, I think I'm gonna have to cosplay Orima

Zenith Rose

Hey, super late to the party, hope you have people that don't overlook you. But I think it's important to note that at this point in the story Suvi doesn't talk through problems to help people be better, she does it to win. This was about proving Ame wrong, about justifying her own anger. Because the sentence "You had no reason to distrust that hospitality" is objectively false when you just found out they'd imprisoned your adopted brothers sister for the crime of being a spirit. Also, being mean doesn't make people listen to you. Being stern and making sure someone knows they've made a mistake is helpful, but Suvi was cruel, cruel for cruelties sake.

Bria A.

Hey! Amazingly ironic timing for this comment, because I once again got way too behind for no reason and am doing another mass binge (have gotten from 34 to 48 in just about three and a half days lmao). I am the first person to admit, especially at this point in the story, that Suvi's mental processes and justifications don't tend to align with the others and there are a plethora of miscommunications because she struggles to communicate, particularly re: vulnerability and feeling like she's been undermined. Also, sometimes she's straight up incorrect because of the whole "indoctrinated by a power-hungry sanctimonious institution" thing. However, I do have to disagree with it being called cruel. I also have to dig into the nuance of saying that being mean doesn't make people listen -- I advocate for kindness at every opportunity, but kind isn't always nice. (And as jokingly as I can phrase this, I'm sorry, I still maintain that she deserved to go apeshit lol.) Thanks for replying to me, though!

queer one

Honestly, I have zero confidence in Suvi not just straight up sabatoging Ame even more than she is ("she doesn't remember"—she agreed to spy)

queer one

I will say this campaign has me 10000% saying fuck wizards

queer one

Ame didn't "allow her familiar to cause a large fire"—at no point did the fox ever communicate his plan or what he was doing. Brennan even said so in the Fireside. Ame had no idea that the fox was going to do what he did until it happened.