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Two great big lenses, like unblinking eyes, spread out upon the table. The better to see you with, my darling. The better to catch you. The better to use you up. Don't ask which, you can't handle the truth, and honestly? Same. Someone's game is over. Someone's done messing around. Someone's time is up. But worry not, for what goes up, must come down. Strap in.

FIXED EP HAS BEEN UPLOADED: The first upload was missing a few things, but the correct version has been placed on the internet for you. Check the shownotes, and it'll say "REUPLOAD" that's how you know you got the right one. You can just delete the old ep and redownload to freshen it up.

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We recommend listening to Worlds Beyond Number (and the Fireside Feed) on a "podcatching" app like Overcast or Pocket Casts. We opposite-of-recommend listening on Youtube Music, which is bad. For more help getting the right audio in the right place, check out our friendly instruction guide.

We are

Brennan Lee Mulligan

Erika Ishii

Aabria Iyengar

Lou Wilson

Produced, designed, and scored by Taylor Moore  at Fortunate Horse with exquisite design and editing help from Jared Olson.

SPECIAL THANKS TO: Tazer Army, Shannon, and Amanda Freberg.

Album art by the great Corey Brickley

Files

Comments

Jack Jones

Roll up roll up some WBN fresh from the presses!!

AbsoluteMission

I’ve re-listened to The Vote three times and I’m powerfully excited for this

Aela K

🥳

Emma41420

It's my birthday and this is the best present to start the day with~ Soooooo excited🎉🎶💞🌟

Cody Zimmer

Oh hell yeah! Can't wait to learn what and who witnessed.

Wren

Only three? I'm not sure how many times I've listened to the coven scene (first hour ish) lmao

Bog Station: Remembrance

Anyone else not getting any audio to play?? Hasn’t shown in my Apple Podcasts either… I will reach deep into the root system of this universe to cultivate patience.

Amber Cekander

IM SO SCARED LET'S GO 🫣😭🫣😭🫣😭🫣

Cody Zimmer

Omg, the sound design already, just 5 minutes in.

LuChiChi4

Same! It’s yet to pop up in the Apple podcast

Franco Muscellini

I have been looking at my Phone like crazy for this!! Thank you!!!

Erika Ishii

🌭ha ha what a fun sound design oh no wait what is happen oh no oh god no

Blue Jones

We love you so much!!! (I'm making being parasocial cool again, join my movement)

Blue Jones

Called shot: Erika's "Wit'n'ess schmeat in Grimoire's mouf" on next fireside

André

Reupload not showing up yet for me on Pocket Casts :(

Jacob B.

The King of Night gives some Randall Flagg vibes.

Jack Jones

God the Citadel theme goes so hard man

Abigail M

Emotional damage! The sound design is incredible and my chest hurts (affectionate). I’m having fun 🙃

Sigurt Bladt Dinesen

I think it's because they only updated the description, not the "itunes summary", and pocket casts actually shows the itunes summary, not the description

Marcus

Well that was rough... ( Amazing but rough haha )

Jack Jones

lets tear that tower down OOOOOOH BABY

The jowler

Spoilers!!!! “Let’s tear that tower down” I am screaming, hakea with the double bluffs by complimenting Ame godamn I love this old woman

LuChiChi4

I cried, I had to have a cigarette break! Taylor you are a god among editors for this episode alone. I hope there is an award that you can win for this podcast. Aabria I need to know if you actually cried in this episode. Round of applause for everyone, I’m absolutely in love with this show. Hakea I have to love you for that ending.

Ammar Khalid

I saw that end coming but man was there a sliver of hope that eventually got dashed HARD. Also fuck was that argument between Ame and Suvi intense yet amazing. Amazing work folks

The Wizard Spring

So when does Aabria get her Podcast Oscar? Her Podscar.

Aabria Iyengar

Oh, I was sobbing so hard in that scene (and lowkey for the rest of the episode) that I had to take a walk after to try and shake it off.

Divanté Malachi

Eursulon's initial reaction was such a Tefmet win

Noam Gumerman

What’s amazing about this episode is that not only was it soul crushing it also has laid out a clear path for my continued emotional torment every two weeks for the rest of the campaign. I love it so much

Puricodraws

Aabria made me cry this ep. What a performance! Can't wait to see what comes next 👀👀👀👀👀

Aleks

Only 30 minutes in but Ame is giving some big “but I have a friend who’s a cop so surely acab can’t be true” energy here

Divanté Malachi

But God Ame going to lie immediately about the derrick would fucking murder me, I can't believe how Eursulon must feel

domino

Devastation

Amelia Granato

thanks for this banger, guys! i love crying for a full hour on a tuesday!!

Divanté Malachi

But idk I think our good witch of the waning moon has a point, if Orima is one of the King of Night's shooters I think I wanna be on their side when the dust clears

Nathan Asher

I love WBN so much because it invites these direct moments of conflict and heartache that so many games intentionally avoid!! I couldn't imagine being any of the players in this episode, this is a TOUGH one. I think I would've been dead by the end of the episode if I had to handle any of this as a person.

Liu

HOLY FUCKING SHIIIIT WHAT THE FUUUUUCK

Liu

Spoilers!!!!! I expected the last vote on a meta lvl bc of w her station is but I can’t fucking fathom what game Indry is playing here. Is she paying it back to Ame so she has no debts? I’m so curious

astrolotree

Y’all absolutely COOKED with this one istg.

The Wizard Seek

Oscar worthy performance, what an absolute delight to be able to listen to this podcast from the beginning. My heart broke for Suvi this episode, the moment she begins to unravel and genuinely experience doubt and fear is the exact moment her friends are moved to confront her about the nature of the Citadel. It's heartbreaking seeing the conditioning kick on in the moment of fear and uncertainty, torn from comfort and nostalgia that almost got somewhere before the real world and consequences kicked through the door. Ame, young and panicking, but moving to follow her mentor's action and holds true to her best fucking attempts at saving her true friend's home because she believes in people despite how god damn awful it is now. Eursulon's trauma and heartbreak and betrayal from both of his friends in the face of his home rapidly heading toward potential colonization. AHHHHHHHHHH. Feeling crazy. Let's go.

bitterbaldguy

Holy Crap! That's how you go to war!

Simon

I just assumed she’d be opposed to any kind of further alliance with other people because it goes against her station

Chelsea Brown

I miss the time before I caught up when I always had another episode

BingusBongos

HOW? DO THESE? KEEP? GETTING? BETTER? EVERY TIME??? this should be illegal

Michelle Spurgeon

Holy shit, this episode!!!!!! You guys really knocked it out of the park! So many emotions! You guys were all digging so deep! The shouting! The crying! I loved this! I feel bad for Suvi but her people suck. I wonder if she will look back at what she learned later with an eye for what the witches found and wonder of they are right instead of her blind faith.

Alyssa

On another day might I have coherent thoughts about this episode. For now, however, unintelligible screaming. AHHHHHHHHH.

Leo Burn'd

Perhaps by forcing Hakea to do a tie break, she was hoping to sow discord amongst the coven. But I'm too dumb to follow through with half the politics at play here

Leo Burn'd

Oh God are we supposed to wait two weeks again

Jane C

I was so shocked with that about-face that I dropped my knitting!

Gillian Moser

The chain of events here is wild!! Suvi’s mission lead to Ame surviving as well as Marara, and motivating Hakea to “wake up”. Marara is then able to get 3/5th of the Coven aligned to move against the Citadel, Suvi’s home. If Suvi failed her mission, the witches wouldn’t have joined the man in black. But since Ame is alive, it also may save the Citadel??? The dominos!!

Millie Marrai

Question for the crew, why is YouTube Music bad? Is it the quality of the audio, or is it a message against large corporations?

Alex Fasci

I need a glass of fucking wine after this one jesus christ

Kael McDonald

Happy birthday! Sorry about the emotional damage.

Kael McDonald

"I couldn't even have a fucking mental breakdown. Why is there never enough time?" Hit REAL hard, in an episode that was hitting too damn hard.

Divanté Malachi

Suvi's compartmentalization game is on a whole different level

Kael McDonald

I think Indri will always prioritize Indri. She might try to make the case that she was repaying a kindness to Ame, but her perspective is always in interest of playing solo. If she can't harness the power of unanimity, then it makes perfect sense to wash her hands of any responsibility towards this war. Why risk herself, right? Plus, there's nonzero odds a war her sisters partake in could reduce the number of coven-members for her, even as they destroy other opposing factions. It's win-win for the Wind and Stars.

kins pents

Yeah but I get the vibes from Mirara that her side is more like "the NYPD is a monstrous institution that exists as a massive monument to injustice. And that is why we must nuke New York City"

Aleks

If the NYPD extended its monstrosity across the entire planet and even alternate dimensions I’d be sympathetic to that argument as well

Emma41420

It's exactly what I asked for 😚💞 Wicked hyped for the Fireside!! My heart aches at a cliffhanger, but I'm in love with big storytelling choices by both DM & Players.☆

Pauraic

The reaching green theme music is my favorite thing 💜

Aleks

Best episode of the show so far (and the bar was already high!). Hakea is the fucking best ❤️ On a side note Id kill for this show to come out weekly 😭

Lavender Sky Entertainment

Why is Ame so mean to Suvi EVERY TIME? There's easier ways to say "some people at the Citadel might be bad" but every time she implicates Suvi! Thet could have told them that Morrow wasn't Citadel, they could have told them Morrow is dead, and WHY ARE WE SUDDENLY TRUSTING THE WITCH WHOSE SLEEPING WITH THE MAN IN BLACK when we JUST USED THAT AGAINST HER LAST EPISODE??? I can't understand why someone so good at making friends with coal spirits and everything else under the sun constantly fails to communicate with her best friendss

The Wizard Swelter

Once again I find myself crying about pretend people.

Ben Fogle

My bumps are all goosed out, you guys

Matthew

the smell of soap...💔

Barron Botts

I am shooketh. Hakea, Suvi, Ame, Eursolon, Mirara. Another week of this podcast haunting my every waking moment, coming right up - piping hot.

Alex H.

look I love Suvi but in this episode she accuses Ame of not understanding what it is to have a family and continues to infantilize Ame any time she comes to a different conclusion from Suvi, despite the fact that she literally just learned that her own mother didn't trust the Citadel, and that someone in the Citadel had cast a Modify Memory spell on her! Aabria is doing a great job and it's a well-realized character but Ame isn't being mean for presenting evidence from a person she's confident is telling the truth, and she nevertheless continues to attempt to restore peace!

Damir Allen

I gotta say that after seeing Suvi steamroll over Ame in so many arguments it was kind of wild seeing Ame bite back and put Suvi on the back foot for even a moment. Though "I don't even have time for a mental breakdown" I felt that deep in my soul

Witch of the Widdle Wiggly Guys

I hadnt considered that Ame's speech could be taken as mean . It is frustrating how Ame doesnt always communicate the best and can be very confusing with how she keeps secrets and tries to be a diplomat/politician. Its also tragic how in private she is a very good advocate but in public kind of fumbles. But Suvi outright insults her time and time again for being naive, not having a "real family", for not caring enough when in reality she makes many assumptions about how those conversations go that she isnt there for. Its hard to reason with people like that and I think its such a perfect small scale version of the larger conflict of the different worlds. Suvi blindly believes the Citadel can do no wrong because she grew up there, despite evidence of misdeeds against the world and her family and herself but she also underestimates Ame as not knowing anything despite her being very well travelled and trained and Suvi only left the Citadel again three months ago. It drives me a bit crazy how Suvi uses her helping Ame as a weapon against her and making her out to be ungrateful when Ame many times has clearly stated she is not comfortable with the level of Citadel involvement. She was unconscious and couldnt even consent to being taken to the Citadel in the first place. Suvi is very close to seats of power but simultaneously doesnt ask very many questions and I can understand Ame's frustrations with her not being more discerning and only having suspicion and ire for people who arent of the empire. And at the same time, I hate thinking of this as Ame vs Suvi because it really isn't. Eursalon is upset with BOTH of them for very good reasons in an argument that has started since arc one that feels like i lt essentially boils down to whether or not people have the right suspicions about the right people and what that says about them. Which is deliciously infuriating.

Alex H.

I think the witches may still have joined the man in black if Mirara and Ame died; Hakea was being influenced by his agents and I think Indry's vote with Ame was largely a result of her newfound respect for (and debt to) Ame

The Wizard Swelter

Question for the party. Im noticing Suvi, Ame, and Ursalon are very trigger happy for different reasons. What version of the character are you tapping into when your unleash that kind of wrath ?

Gillian Moser

Ooo I forgot about that, that’s a good point!

Witch of the Widdle Wiggly Guys

The anticipation and hope that Suvi will one day have the reckoning/revelation that Empires that Seek to Dominate the World and Hoard Magic are baaad maybe??? and end up in a no man's land of "BOTH/ALL y'all are fucked up" keeps me waiting with baited breath.

HexMix

SO HAPPY to see Ame shut down Suvi's latest attempt to bully her around!

Oakenguard

She probably thinks the Citadel will kill the other witches (and they will), and the she can clean Ame up after. She can have her spot as the only one then lol

Witch of the Widdle Wiggly Guys

Omg seriously, the moment where Suvi was SO CLOSE to having a moment of introspection about who/what may be working against her and instead gets snapped back. UGHHHHH

Alex H.

I think Ame proved way more powerful than Indry expected so she decided to follow her lead (and pay her back in the process). She clearly finds Mirara to be incompetent and annoying, so it doesn't seem like a hard sell to side against herm

Noliam Samoht

If mentioned in a previous episode please let me know, but is unanimity only acquired at the vote of the conclave or can it be acquired later if the witches who vote went against the majority changes thier mind?

HexMix

Suvi needs to pick a side PRONTO! Her adoptive mother had no qualms with brainwashing her and sending her into the lions den. And even if she did, none of them were strong enough to go against the wishes of the Almighty Citadel. Ever since the Casov Collection I've been waiting to see that tower fall, and crumble into more sand! (I hope Ame can make them see reason, but I'm not holding my breath)

lil guy

Taylor!!!!!!!!!!!!

lil guy

Enough with the good music man I'm unhealthy

Alex H.

loved the soundtrack when Ame was talking to Mirara!

The Wandering Mage

This episode was completely exhausting to listen to, in the best ways possible. Superb job.

Jace Morgul

The music during Suvi’s spell - WOW!!!

Witch of the Widdle Wiggly Guys

It seems as if it is only at the vote, hence Indry making a big deal about being too hasty with when voting occurs. I was also wondering if its a thing where voting on a subject only happens once and cannot be brought up again and its looking like its one and done.

Aleks

I dont think its stated last episode but Mirara implies it in her conversation with Ame. Both in the sense that if the King of Night kills her or if they come to accomodation in the coming months.

Bored Today

I believe for the full effect of unanimity to be put into use, they have to another conclave to vote and have everyone in agreement going one direction (could be wrong)

Britt Byers

*clutches chest* Having to wait two weeks for the next story episode feels like the cruelest thing that anyone has ever been done to me, and nothing will convince my nervous system otherwise in this moment. Honey bunches I cannot even right now. I'm going to have to organize an emotional support pod to help me survive this campaign.

Aleks

Crazy how different people can have such wildly different interpretations. I felt like Ame and Eursulon were being really restrained in the face of Suvi lashing out. Also the point here isnt that it was just Morrow and “a few people”. The Citadel itself, or at least a significant portion of its leadership, are part of this, not just some hack guild mage in port talon.

Lavender Sky Entertainment

I mean, I'm not disagreeing that The Citadel may have some seriously bad stuff going on, but we've seen evidence that it's not everybody. The Witches and Man In Black want to kill EVERYBODY instead of finding those responsible. There's justice, and then there's genocide

Traviss Smelser

I haven't been this emotionally confused since puberty.

Benjamin Pavey

My hunch is its less the debt, but that Indry doesnt want to move without unanimity,

Divanté Malachi

Also not Suvi mistaking lack of faith in the citadel for lack of faith in her time and time again

PharaohNoir

As soon as Hakea said “I like you Ahme…” I knew it was over.

Witch of the Wandering Thought

I don’t think Indri’s vote was to help anyone but her damn self. She votes “no” only after Ame, meaning they didn’t have unanimity and the power of covenant backing them. Indri isn’t trying to get her shoes dirty before she steps over everyone in the aftermath.

The Wizard Sexy

I'm so excited to see what finally makes Suvi's devotion to the citadel crack. For three seasons now I've expected small inconsistencies in her worldview to build up until she can't ignore them anymore, but after this episode I think Steel could give her a full out heel turn villain monologue and Suvi would still find a way to rationalize it

M

WOAHHHHHHH HAKEAAAA!!! Tbf I do feel that Hakea did mean what she said to Ame at the end. While their truths differ and their goals may as well, I’d like to think that there is respect to the dedication to their station from both Ame and Hakea

lil guy

Happy birthday!!!

Julia Whitmore

For as much as I'm looking forward to a potential Suvi Gone Rogue arc, I think Aabria is playing it exactly right. How much would it take for me to quit my job cold turkey, run away from my partner and disown my relatives, give up everything that I hold dear and have been working towards my entire life? How much bad would I have to see before it finally outweighs all of the immense good? "Forgive me if I need a little more evidence before I forsake my entire life and family." If/when Suvi turns her back on The Citadel, the trail of destruction left behind in her comet's wake is going to be epic and so satisfying.

Aleks

Destroying the citadel and taking down everyone in a position of power within does not equal genocide. Genocide requires the intentional destruction of an entire people, not just going to war with a city. I dont think the King of Night is out there to kill every single inhabitant of the citadel (as in non wizard workers etc.) though admittedly he’s probably fine with any level of collateral damage there.

AliceH

Oh man, maybe it's just the lawyer in me but I was on Suvi's side... I need some kind of evidence that the Citadel is behind stuff? I have no problem believing that wizards of the empire do terrible stuff or that some Citadel wizards are bad, but it's a highly regimented bureaucracy WITHIN a larger enormous bureaucracy - the idea that the Citadel "rulers" know everything going on in the entire EMPIRE seems farfetched tbh? I'm thinking of how they reacted to Ame's hot exit (local cop issue) vs Morrow, a non-citadel wizard fairly far away... I would *expect* them to have all his stuff shipped to the tower to take apart and analyze. I dunno, I have an issue with destroying a whole city and major educational institution, especially when the opposition is talking about reminding humans of their place 😬

Hillary Patrick

It’s going to take me days to emotionally recover from the scream “YOU RAN!” followed by the quiet “…I’m sorry”. The trust that this group has with each other to build these heavy, complicated emotions and take big swings is always incredible to listen to.

nat

Not me sobbing during work as I’m listening to this masterpiece. I am ~incredibly~ frustrated and ~thoroughly~ enraged

Kitkitdik

Hakea!!!!!! I should have known, but the yes caught me by suprise

Kitkitdik

Also suviiiii baby, verbalizing such complicated shit. So amazing and a great antithesis to the "burn it all down" mentality I CANT HANDLE HOW GOOD YOU GUYS ARE

Bored Today

I think the trigger happy sense your seeing is the character’s inherent biases (which is being portrayed amazingly) towards each other’s group. Witches toward wizards Wizards toward Spirits & Witches Spirts toward Wizards So evidence is introduced that reinforces your bias they are not as quick to separate the Citadel from the machinations of wizards. Not that they can’t but are slower to do so.

Bored Today

Their experiences have shaped and reinforced their POV. For example, Ursalon his only positive interaction with wizardry is from Suvi and training with Steel. All other times he was hunted and chased to be captured and experimented on for years seeing the dark side of wizards, or him seeing the capture of a great spirit when he is but a small spirit in comparison (its hard to separate wizardry from the Citadel). Same with Suvi, seeing a great spirit cause havoc with the vines destroying the city and kills hundreds of soldiers or and Ame seeing the very spirits she has swore to protect being held within Port Talon. They seen the bad side of each other’s group and the cruelty they can cause. I love the gray area

AliceH

This!

LadyMage

But I think that is what he's going for, especially with the statement of "bringing mankind to heel." He wants to destroy the Citadel and any wizards there because of their skill and knowledge. I don't think he's going to let them evacuate and only destroy the tower.

AliceH

Something strikes me about how witches are singular in their representation of an entire domain - if the witch is Bad, replacing or removing the witch is a straightforward answer, but even at the very top the Citadel is run by committee, so determining fault is going to be more complicated. There's no extricating politics and varied/conflicting motivations - it's more like the coven than any one witch, but it feels like the presentation of evidence against "The Citadel" is treating it as a singular entity

bails 🌀 witch of the what the fuck

Citadel brainwashing at its finest 😭 it’s heartbreaking because you can see how badly Suvi wants to do the right thing but she’s literally fighting against a lifetime of training that forces her to “see the bigger picture” when it’s actually in the minutiae that evil begins to take hold. and so, by design, the Citadel makes wizards overlook smaller details in favor of a Greater Good mindset. i need a nap 🫠

Sam

Just when I think I can't love this podcast any more than I already do, we get today's episode! Gripping emotional drama; realizations; accusations; appeals; betrayals; all scored with Taylor's magic music!!! I love this show!

AliceH

In a city as inherently magical as the Citadel, I kinda think wiping out the majority of wizards means you *are* signing off on killing the rest?

rio

Desperately hoping that we can get a Spirit Week in October to show off the true forms and glamours of some of these incredible spirits we keep hearing about

Xanian Jamfalcon

Whew gotta catch my breath after that one. The music was a little too loud in some spots but this is an all-timer episode. Sheesh.

Bored Today

I love the gray area, biases and complicated anger that is being displayed between the trio. From Ursalon, anger can be pointed toward both Suvi & Ame. Spirits are being threaten with the possibility of exploitation from ppl of the Citadel, plus Ame lying about it and not giving the full picture to the witches- a group of ppl that could help save Urasalon’s home- has him rightfully pissed. From Suvi, her anger is pointed toward Ame because her home and everything she has ever known is in jeopardy of being erased from the world from long time adversaries. Seeing Ame in agreement with the opinions that are against her home -and in turn her- will make her defensive of the placed that raised her and gave her direction/purpose. From Suvi’s POV, all her and her family have done is show Ame and Ursalon kindness continuously only to have them spit in her face when they left in a hurry or didn’t wait at the Port. Then Ame & Ursalon questioning the kindness given can rlly heat you up. From Ame, her anger can be pointed toward Suvi. Ame and her station is pretty much the only barrier between humanity facing the wrath of witchdom and spirt world. She has seen signs of wizardry harming or working in opposition of spirits be it in Port Talon or the Collection, but she fights for them anyway because she won’t condemn the entirety of the institution but still is aware of its corruption. It’s a lot for one person to be responsible for all humanity and shoulder that burden as a 3 month newbie. Then be told your not doing enough The complexity *Chef’s Kiss*, there’s no right answer just consequences

Sasha

I can't wait for the day Suvi finally admits that she's wrong lol

AliceH

And I think they both stepped over the line with each other but man, they found Suvi crying and to go from there to 'I will *not* stop invoking you DEAD MOTHER to prove my point' was 😬, and maybe not the way to get your friend to listen [Erika and Aabria fucking killed this scene tbc 💗 ]

Brandon Carbaugh

I have to say, while I have consumed and enjoyed work from everyone involved in WBN prior to this (Taylor and Fortunate Horse included!), WBN is far and away my favorite that any of them have ever done, by a country mile. It's without a doubt among my favorite actual plays ever. And it's too soon to say until the thing is done, but it's rapidly becoming one of my favorite pieces of fantasy media ever, period.

Ashley Teatum

The buildup was too much, I had a sinking feeling where it was going. Y'ALL what an EPISODE GEEEZ 🤌

tayycro

I will stan Suvi until the day I die bc I have been her and I *understand* her. Aabria you absolute masterclass in grey area RP.

rio

We need to see the entropic power of what I can only assume is a dumptruck of era ending proportions

DaphneDawn

The music at the end I’m dying! We be mere mortals Taylor stop it

One Punch Max

Do they make Oscars for Podcasts? I'm gonna need the two weeks to recover from and process this episode.

Daryn Snijdewind

the way i had to hold down my mental breakdown as i listened to this at work 😅

lxwles

I would hate it if Suvi became a villain but it would be really hard to blame her

Genna

Not done the episode, but goddamn, Suvi breaking down is making me want to fight someone to protect her

lxwles

like imagine always trying to do the right thing but still be FULLY unable to trust anyone that claims they care about you

One Punch Max

Seriously the acting in this episode was sublime. Lou giving me goosebumps, Abria literally making me cry, Erika pulling me back up again. And Brennan as always creating literal magic with is words, I swear the Lingua Arcana is real and he's using it. That's the only explanation for what I'm hearing.

One Punch Max

I can't listen to this while doing anything else anymore. When I first discovered this series I spent literally every free second binging the first 25 or so episodes. But now I listen to this like people listened to the radio when it had just been invented.

Zivia Avelin

I’m not ok how are you guys doing?

bails 🌀 witch of the what the fuck

ok before i come back to write my platonic love letter to Aabria Iyengar, i did have this thought back when Tefmet torched their more specific findings prior to the presentation… it seems like the type of whimsical application of magic that Brennan would honor if Ame sequestered off to see the coal spirit Toph (Tof?) before leaving Indri’s. and because i am IMPATIENT for CLUES, maybe Ame could assist in a simple mending spell with the Toph’s help to repair Tefmet’s documents 👀 because who better to ask about the comings and goings of soot and ash?? this WON’T HAPPEN because they’ve ALREADY RECORDED these episodes but it would be COOL, I THINK 😤 also, i have this feeling that Tefmet would be an incredible ally to them if the gang were able to set aside their biases in favor of merely discovering the truth, whatever it may be. in short: more Tefmet pls 👉🏻👈🏻

Luke 'Punquillity' Elias

God if that doesnt feel so real looking at our own military industrial complex of a nation. That compartmentalization is 100% a solid strategy to make it hard to do just that. Beaurocracy is there to spread power around and make it to hard to remove all the hands without hurting a lot of innocents/people doing their best. Not my.most eloquent but also still mid processing all this xD

bails 🌀 witch of the what the fuck

@ One Punch Max, i thought this SAME thing earlier 😂 i imagined my ear pressed to a radio and everything. it’s such compelling storytelling!! i used to clean while listening because i can generally do that absentmindedly, but these last, like, 5 episodes keep knocking the wind out of me and i have to sit down and stare at the wall to process what i’m hearing 🤣

Beignet Gesserit

I fear we will be spinning in polarizing moral ambiguity forever

R. Shawn Abrahams

Wasn’t it Gauthmai that was traveling into the spirit realm and breeding those monsters? I feel like the evils being layed at the citadel’s feet are just a convenient way for the King Under Night make a play at Empire Expansion.

MagnaniMel

Oof. This was a tough episode (but soooo good). Everyone's feelings were justified. I want to know how long Ren was cursed that it made her job of confronting the Citedal impossible. It probably didn't help that her co conspirators (Suvi's parents) were dead.

Edmund Barker

Oh, for sure. The thanks given was sincere, as she saw Ame go into bat for the very existence of the coven that Hakea created. It was such a fantastic moment, sincere thanks followed by immediate opposition.

Zivia Avelin

I almost feel like Sky would have had a better chance of being convinced if she’d stayed. Especially if Ame hadn’t outed her. I really wonder if hearing Tefmet’s entire pitch would have convinced Sky. I think it would come down to weather what she said to Ame is true or not. Is there an amount of proof that would make Sky turn on the citadel or is that just her justification.

bails 🌀 witch of the what the fuck

🤣 once they described Losario in Haverward as “freaky Tom Hardy” and Eioghorain as Toshiro Mifune, i was like “oh it’s like THAT, huh?”

Birdy

please release an album or even just an mp3 of the music in this show please i’m begging.

Arwen

Of all of the decisions being made, Suvi's are the only ones I understand! Characters keep choosing actions I truly don't understand except for Suvi. I may not have made them, but there's a backstory and logic to them. Maybe I'd become the villain, too?!?!

R. Shawn Abrahams

The threat colonialism and enslavement feels like a reach considering they are discussing joining the side a spirit who rules a nation in the mortal realm where human’s bodies are used as vessels for spirits to control and discard, like the ship captain. It’s more about human’s technology/lingua arcana disrupting a hierarchy that spirits were comfortable with and Ursalon having personal trauma guiding a pretty selective abolitionist politic.

Jack Flynn

Literally couldn't keep a smile off my face by the end! Can't wait to see how things shake out after all this!

Zivia Avelin

I also love how Suvi goes from “I trapped you here I’m so sorry” to Ursalon to telling Ame that “she’s has no loyalty because she’s alone in the world” And doesn’t realize that Ursalon is in almost completely agreement with Ame on this and he is thinking of his family.

Henry G

Another certified classic! I feel like Mirara just needs a friend, maybe if anyone gave her a chance she would not have turned to the Man in Black. She seems isolated. Her station does not necessarily desire solitude like wind and stars yet no one would willingly be her retinue I keep going back to that

bails 🌀 witch of the what the fuck

i definitely think the perspective of “is there really anything, in all their power, you think the Citadel ISN’T aware of?” is something Suvi needs to hear, for SURE. because in one breath she can sing the praises of what the Citadel is capable of when it comes to helping her friends, and in the next breath deny their capabilities if it frames them in a bad light. she’s walking that line of awareness right now and it’s a house of cards. but Suvi being at that meeting would have been disastrous; she’s incredibly vulnerable right now and too likely to lash out. having to rewire her entire upbringing is going to take a WHILE, and in the meantime she can’t go pissing off witches, spirits, and antivolists in a place where she is a guest. that puts everyone’s safety at risk. plus, not being at the meeting gave her that moment of reflection she needed to cast identify in the first place. it was such a HUGE moment for her character that has her at least acknowledging the aforementioned house of cards 🥲 i’m just so worried for how she’s going to handle what she learns and, honestly, her friends are going to need to step up their empathy game. it’s tough when each of them has an incredible weight of responsibility, but ultimately, they all have the same goal: doing the right thing and caring for one another. Ame and Eursulon HAVE to be able to take their own biases into account (doesn’t matter who is “right”, a bias is a bias) and say, “my true friend is hurting. they are confronting everything they’ve ever believed and that is HARD, regardless of my own perception of events”… because Suvi is going to really, REALLY need that support.

Bored Today

I think a better word for my post was “exploitation” instead. But i think it goes beyond the threat of the disruption of the hierarchy but the threat of subjection. From Ursalon’s POV, if they ever create a device powerful to truly bind a greater spirit (the highest lvl of spirit we’ve seen expect the tree) then all of the spirt world in peril, him and most others standing NO chance. Brennan showed that through the other spirits reactions during the presentation, they were truly shocked that was even a potential possibility. Fear creeping in

Genna

Physically shaking, gonna go make some tea

Gone Fawn It

This episode! A masterclass in storytelling and sound design. My heart broke at least three times.

Genna

Goosebumps, hot tears, reckless hope. These folks do it all. This story IS magic.

Arwen

Thank you! I kept thinking "but we're just going to take one wizard's word that it's other wizards being bad?!?!" Where's video from Indri's vast sky-spy network?!

VeritaAmore87

I’m still processing this episode, but it was just amazing. The sound design, the story telling, the deep emotions from everyone. THE ENDING!!! Just incredible all around.

Bryan Holt

Okay it is a little bit bullying right, she's behaving in a way taught to her by her parents to convince people that you're right and it belittles others. She kept throwing her family in amay's face after telling her that she didn't know what it's like to have one

Theo Lee

By the Great Spirits, I love Suvi. That is your home. Your safety. Your comfort. Your family. Your friends. Your education. Almost everything that made you who you are and almost everything that you've ever known. Damn straight I'd need a little more evidence before I agree to burn it all the the ground. Evidence they might have if Ame hadn't spilled the beans about Suvi being from the Citadel. Not talking is catching up to them all because there's never enough time (legitimately). Old wounds are festering and fueling feelings behind new feuds. I love all these artists so much for making my heart break in such beautiful ways 💜

Bryan Holt

She said if she had proof she would work against them but I don't think that's true I think she has all the proof shoveled in front of her

Genna

Aabria - the commitment to showing up so Suvi and so deeply vulnerable in this episode, for casting *Identify* on yourself when you KNEW what was coming your way. Absolute legend. I'm still shaking. I rest a little easier knowing that you all take care of each other when you reach to such deep places as performers, but it still takes a toll. Grateful to you, we love you, now I'm gonna go take a walk/nap.

catrinevansvlogs -

I listened to the end of this on the bus and I realised I probably looked like I'd just gotten the juiciest voicenote ever recorded

FoggyFroggy

“…on the stones in front of you shatters a kitty-cat mug” MENDING

美知子

Potential pick for a new witch in the Coven of Elders: Silver’s husband 🤗 (provided he studies witch craft and denounces the Citadel)

The Wizard Seek

I'm not so sure- personally, it'd take more than a presentation I didn't see and my friends not offering any tangible fact for me to break out of 20 years of conditioning, yknow? I believe that Suvi goes 0-100 and when/if she becomes disillusioned from the Citadel, it'll surely be spectacular. Aabria is queen of the long game and I'm soooooo ready to see >D

Alex B

Um. Hey. You made me cry.

ceeg

I FEEL FUCKING CRAZY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ceeg

You know what Suvi you might actually get enough evidence from Ame and Eursulon if you LET THEM EXPLAIN!!!! Love you 4eva though ur my short tempered baby🫶🏻🫶🏻🫶🏻

Zander Jenkins

yo what the fuck I didn’t know you were allowed to DO that

Zivia Avelin

The Witch of the worlds heart would approve

Kurt Anderson

So when are we getting a vox machina style TV show?

Tara

You ever listen to a man resolving a simple Identify spell and think about hanging it all up 'cause you'll never be him?

Jack Monaco

Such an interesting Parallel is that Mirara and Suvi are both status obsessed. Mirara views witches as completely beholden to their station. She’s a good witch after all. Her truths are not ones bound of relationships and relativity, unless it’s her great goth bf The Man in Black.

Jack Monaco

Like she wants to wipe out MORTALS. No nuance. The world’s heart is the WORLD, not just humans which comprise a small part of it. Wren is BAD because she interpreted her station to be what we know it as

Jack Monaco

But she helped Suvi in the hallway once so I guess she’s alright

Zivia Avelin

I think the problem is Ame approaches being the balance by calling out everyone’s bullshit which has been very effective but also sometimes people need to hear “I know and I’m fighting for you” more. But also remember Ame wanted to focus on helping Suvi and Suvi told her to explain and then pushed back on every piece of information they gave her. If they’re bad at giving help she’s worse at accepting it.

Jack Monaco

Also the WORLDS HEART is still gonna DIE at the end of the year due to the Man in Black???!

Zivia Avelin

Also yes I love everything you said about her being in the meeting and the house of cards and the hypocrisy!

Bree M

Woof

Bree M

My stomach hurts. The anxiety!

Strange Universe

A lot of people coming down on Suvi when the 'evidence' we saw was just one noted enemy of the citadel saying "Source: Trust me, bro." Yeah we know the derek was a thing, but we also know it was off books and not authorized and we didn't see any actual evidence to the contrary, nor did we actually *see* nay of these 'intercepted missives' for all anyone actually knows she just made it all up and it kinda sucks that Ame didn't at least ask to see some proof. That said, institutions bad, etc and i'm sure there's probably a lot of fire to that smoke, but I totally get Suvi's reaction.

Bree M

Gotta disagree about Steel. Suvi is the one who insisted on going to the conclave to protect Ame, and Steel pretty fully explained the Modify Memory plan and only did it with Suvi’s consent. Suvi just can’t remember that right now. I think Steel has good intentions but was also raised in the same Citadel system as Suvi.

The Wizard Smarmy

i literally yelled that out loud when it happened lmao

ceeg

For as much as Suvi is in the dark about, she knows FAR more about the inner workings of the Citadel than anyone else at the conclave. She herself may have plenty of evidence to the malice of the Citadel, but she has turned a blind eye to it. Or maybe not! I just think she’s seen a lot that she considers “fine” bc she’s been told it’s “fine”

Just some girl

You summed up my feelings about this perfectly!!! Well said<3

Annabel Mont

When Brennan said strap in, I almost throw up.

sabertruth19

Just muttering to myself Xiao Court Xiao Court, waiting for Ame to throw that back to Suvi - you got a whole building full of trapped spirits in paintings and an entire court built around it. Put that with Morrow and Port Talon and Eursalon’s sister and Soft’s “incident” and you start to have more of a long-standing pattern instead of once off wild card.

Eleventh Hour Panic Productions

This has managed to edge its way into the top position of my favorite games I've listened to. There is so much love and nuance and outright skill that has gone into this show from everyone involved, and I can only aspire to being part of a game even half as good at some point in my life.

Witch of the Widdle Wiggly Guys

I think its so fascinating how Suvi and Ame always kind of devolve into conflict but both are usually reticent to confront or upset Ursalon. I know probably due to lingering guilt over his predicament, but its also fascinating and drives me crazy how Suvi seems to exclusively blame Ame for leaving the Citadel when Ursalon also left the same way or how she empathizes with Ursalon's feelings about the derrick and the cassov collection but if Ame speaks up about it she becomes defensive and says she doesn't understand or how she will listen to what he has to say about the presentation evidence but dismisses anything Ame has to say and resorts to insulting her and condescending to her because she was never able to have any of the same resources or level of community that she had because Ame was literally? Abandoned? At gramma Wren's? I LOVE Suvi but she make'a me a'so mad allathetime.

bails 🌀 witch of the what the fuck

“if you tell me what’s right, i’ll do it” as a recovering people pleaser (who still falls off the wagon), this pleading from Suvi perfectly sums up my fierce desire to protect her with my whole being. i had to pause the episode to SOB. begging to understand how she can help, how she can show everyone that she deserves the air she breathes, the space she takes up. how she can bloody her nails clawing to prove her worth. if i do everything right, i’ll be loved. if i never make a mistake, i won’t end up alone. do you know what it did to a girl like Suvi, to lose her parents at an age she could still recall their faces? the sturdiness of her mother and the gentleness of her father? Suvi, who loves magic with everything she is, who describes magic as “belonging to adulthood” was a little girl when she was tucked into that carriage in the dead of night. confused. afraid. alone. maybe if she were older, she could have done something. maybe if she knew more, she could have been useful — and THAT’s her fear. “not her fault” is not a phrase in Suvi’s vocabulary. cause, effect. she was sent away, her parents died. you can see that guilt in every decision, every venomous remark designed to hurt. she HAS to believe the Citadel has merit or else nothing has changed, or else she is still the small, ignorant child who was helpless to save her parents. and so i’m reticent to write off the whole of the Citadel because the fact is: they kept her safe. they gave her a home, a family. they fed her natural curiosity and gave her unimaginable opportunities to grow and thrive. they gave her purpose. i will not deny the evidence presented against them, but how can Suvi be expected to shed her bias in an instant? the ways in which the Citadel made her whole again should not be trivialized. separating her upbringing from her sense of self is going to require grieving the life she has worked tirelessly to make for herself. give her a little grace if it doesn’t happen overnight. Suvi is broken and scared which is a dangerous combination. and now that the seeds of doubt have been tentatively sown, it has the very real ability to unravel her if she doesn’t get the support she needs from SOMEWHERE. the fact is, no matter how much Suvi loves Steel as a mother and a mentor, any explanation Steel may have is now soured. who CAN she trust? how is any one person expected to navigate this logically without guidance? as i said in another reply on here, i SINCERELY hope her true friends are up for the challenge of deconstructing their biases together because if they can work to heal Suvi’s heart, the party as a whole will become all the stronger for it. and after this episode, y’all, they’re going to NEED strength. so, respectfully, platonically, this is my love letter to Aabria Iyengar. holy sh*t, your capacity for exploring these deeply raw and vulnerable emotions has not gone unnoticed. it is a balm to my soul and a reassuring hug to my inner child. ty for allowing me to wax poetic; i’m going to eat half a tray of brownies to recover 👋🏻🩵

Norah Clous

I had to listen to this episode pacing around my house holding my dog in order to stomach it. Terrifying and awful. What a masterpiece

ceeg

Counter point: Steel is one of the most powerful people in Umora and Suvi just wants to trust her mom. idk if we know Steel enough to say she has good intentions

Zoe Robertson

This episode gave me actual chills. The emotion felt so raw and real, the tension almost palpable. I am SO excited to find out what happens next!

sabertruth19

Also excited to see if Suvi is going to be able to reverse engineer her way to the original memory with the somatic components/finger movements she stuck in her brain. This story is SO GOOD!

Sil

The Saurman-esque scream of "TO WAR!" in my car felt perfect in this instance.

bails 🌀 witch of the what the fuck

ughhhh I KNOWWW and the whole time i was thinking with Suvi’s current mental state/recent revelation how impactful it might have been for Ame to throw back “what would you have ME do?” to Suvi. because Suvi’s usual gut instinct to get more information from Steel might have made Suvi pause after that identify spell 😫

rocket-flash

First, is the Man in Black's army called the Men in Black?? Please? I love this story so much. I love how all of the main three are having these double sided reckonings and making messy choices! Ame, split between the treachery within the citadel/it's colonialist aims within the Spirit Realm and the Man in Black (and now the Coven) wanting to destroy much of humanity. If she would actually reckon with how reckless her departure from the Citadel (and Port Talon) was and really sit with that as a mistake, I think she would have a much easier time winning Suvi over! It's hard to watch her make her biggest mistakes rashly out of fear, even if I understand where the fear comes from.

bails 🌀 witch of the what the fuck

but in the art style of Blue Eye Samurai pls n thank u 😌 but seriously with Vox Machina and also the McElroy’s graphic novels i GOTTA believe this podcast is going places

bails 🌀 witch of the what the fuck

YES. YESSSS EXACTLY. i’m constantly thinking about how if they would just stop trying to Win The Argument they could realize they’re on the same side!! they just keep talking past each other instead and it’s devastating 🥲

rocket-flash

And Suvi, grappling with what the reckless and sometimes brutal nature of spirits, but not fully unpacking the ways the Citadel oversteps it's goals of "protecting humans and gaining knowledge" in favor of controlling and subjugating power/problems before they arise (ie: Naram and some of the spirits in the gallery), as well as the huge class disparity within the citadel itself (though that's not a problem for spirits/the future of magic in it's own). And even Ursulon, trapped as an ambassador for a world he cannot return to. I get the sense that he is pretty agnostic towards death on either side (spirits and humans kill each other all the time) but is rightfully upset about mass capture/exploitation on either side, with particular care for spirits since he is one and they are underrepresented/misunderstood in Umora.

CommodoreBlue

Hot damn that was so good!! So many thoughts and questions! Is Will Gallows one of the dead from Rhuv? What’s the deal with the 12 patrons? Is the Pilgrim Under Stars the 13th horse the Archer mentioned? Did Indry say no because she had nothing to lose since there was no unanimity, and this way she doesn’t have to help? Would Hakea have said no if Ame never woke her up? Is Marara just casting levitate or something? What did she mean by calling herself an abomination? And then there’s everything with The Citadel and The Library 😫

RobbieQ

What the fuck do you mean woodland green :o:o:o

rocket-flash

Last one whoop, I just need to put my thoughts down somewhere! I feel like the triad can all end up on the same page somewhere between supporting the Citadel's worst goals and destroying humanity, but there's a lot of nuance within that and a lot of people that disagree with the stance entirely so I'm interested to see them hopefully build a stronger support network like Grandma Wren had and maybe convince some witches/wizards to ride the middle line. I honestly think so far the antivalists (sp?), unaligned witches, and wizards like Sly might be the best bet! I honestly don't believe Grandma Wren had come up with any kind of big plan before she became cursed, although she definitely knew people that had helpful information about the Citadel, spirits, Ruve etc Otherwise Ame would have found it or hints of it in the cottage. The Coven speaks of the power they have together, but they were never willing to come together in the name of organizing peace talks/helping Wren before they had chosen sides like Ame suggested. Maybe if they had all come together to help out earlier, they would have also prevented bloodshed like Marara was taunting Ame with. Kind of a cruel move to say "Figure out peace between worlds on your own, but if you don't do it fast enough we will all go to war and say I told you so because we didn't believe in you from the start." Like wouldn't Wren have had a much better chance at finding allies and convincing people/spirits if she had someone like Indry or Marara using their power to help!??

Zivia Avelin

You’re right, but at the same time Is there any amount of proof that would make Suvi turn on the citadel? Suvi can make a very convincing argument that can undermine ANYTHING if she wants to. To me Ame’s fault isn’t in not getting go enough proof it’s in forcing her friend to make that kind of decision to begin with. She didn’t want a conflict but she let Suvi bait her into one instead of seeing and meeting her where she’s at.

Zivia Avelin

But if she let them explain they might be right so she’s gotta keep yelling because her world is broken enough right now

Michael Redd

The proof is literally what they experienced. There is no way you could divert that many resources from the citadel knowledge.

Michael Redd

And we got to wait 2 weeks for more 😔😔😔😔

rocket-flash

I land somewhere in the middle of these takes. I think what Steel did was wrong because asking that level of unquestioning commitment from anyone, particularly someone that looks up to you and relies on you is wrong (in my opinion), but Suvi did do it willingly and is large part responsible for her actions too. The Citadel isn't "worse" than the witches plotting against them here, but that doesn't make them good either (spying like that is at best morally neutral in my opinion). I think Ame owes Suvi some apologies, and to voice her understanding of the nuances of the Citadel to Suvi without interjecting a ton of judgment. But just like with evidence against the Citadel not being convincing to Suvi, I don't think there's a lot of evidence to prove that Steeles intentions were inherently good despite the exploitative ideals we've seen coming from the institution that hold her highest allegiance.

Chris Caran

Wow. Woodland Green coming in hot.

Stefanucci Mozzarella

Character Development Question! Why does Eursalon speak out against the *white* lie of Ame, but doesn’t speak out against the quality/integrity of the Man in Black when Ursalon knows he’s out to destroy Ame and Souvie???? He has charismatic authority in that moment at the table and he didn’t speak. His presence was even request to be uninhibited. He knew his awareness of The Man in Black could not be spoken for after the recess. Why did you not speak up, Eursalon? Eursalon knows the Man in Black is not of perfect quality just like the Citadel. 1:12:30?- Episode #30 - The Snake “…What you and I need to know is: WHO YOU ARE.” - Man in Black “… does that balance require the death of those under my protection? “ - Eursalon “ Yes. one for reasons of furry, and the other for sorrow” - MiB Doesn’t Ursalon value Steele, his mentor and coach? Doesn’t he want to reciprocate the same bridge exuded and offered by Sir Curran to the other world (from Curran to him, to Honored Friends)? Is that not part of his Oath? Hey! Paladin, I Love You AND we’re all f*cking learning AND what is your Oath?! Hey! Watch it! You hear me?! The heart of gold shines Radiant for ALL to see! Not just at convenience! You can stand up for the good of the Citadel that you know is seen by Ame. That’s shared knowledge! You aren’t alone in that belief. I imagine you trust Ame’s position but! you getting swayed by Man in Black. What is your Oath and Who are YOU, Eursalon?! If you would be willing to speak to these points, Lou/Steven/panama etc., that would be super awesome. I love what you do; I wonder what you were experiencing in that moment in front of the witches. Is this just Chaotic Good?! 😂🧐😛 Absolutely terrific job everyone! Keep going!

Ashley Teatum

I think Steel knew about the derrick already, before they told her, and is a wildly good actor (edited for clarity 💀)

Aabria Iyengar

👋🏾🩵 send me the other half of the tray, friend

ceeg

God Aabria is so good at this

MsAlleyCat

Sad about it, but there was a for sure change in Eursulon when confronting Suvi after he gained this new knowledge. No more "Suvi" it is now "Sky". Oh the heartbreak :) <3 So many feelings about this episode. Love it, can't wait to see what happens next.

Ashley Teatum

Two and twenty scrying spells 🤝 why you can't have 11 witches in the cover. Double numbers have a special magic 🤌✨

AliceH

Holy hell this, Arwen! Being super honest, the explanation they gave for the lenses also wasn't correct (I think?) because it *does* seem important that Morrow *isn't* a Citadel wizard! The Stranger has an entire army and maybe the state power of Ruve behind him - why is everyone focused on the Citadel and not, say, the PTB *ordering* the weapons and Timori and fighters? Again, if the Citadel is the major educational institution for the Empire, I know why it makes sense from a conquering pov, but DAMN, seems like once again (a la the wall in port talon) the human collateral damage doesn't seem as important as the need to Act Now

AliceH

Also, and I'm 100% projecting right now, but Suvi asking for evidence was me asking in every meeting "and did you ask ANY follow-up questions?" 🤣

Zoop

This is the first episode I genuinely struggled to get through. It was so emotionally real and raw and fucking hard to handle man. My hat goes off to all the players for their incredible performance and to Brennan for crafting such a moving plot line.

AliceH

It wasn't clear to me that Morrow *was* diverting Citadel resources? He was for SURE stealing from the Empire but that's not the same thing?

AliceH

And yeah, "trust me" is in no way shape or form evidence! Ame has received *help* from the Citadel vs her sisters trying to kill her and Grandma Ren/Ame being cursed... in Suvi's shoes I would be baffled and hurt as well

The Wizard Sexy

How much evidence has Suvi ignored in all of her years at the Citadel? How many times has she brushed off things that should have been taken as evidence? At the end of season 1, she admitted to knowing that wizards of the Citadel imprison spirits. She managed to integrate both the holding of Naram and the spirits at Xiao Court pretty quickly, even with Eursulon there to show her firsthand how a spirit would feel about them. Suvi doesn't have enough evidence to challenge the Citadel because she chooses to downplay and ignore every incoming piece of information that isn't supportive of the Citadel. I think it's one thing to empathize with Suvi right now, she's in a really stressful and vulnerable place. But it's another thing to allow that empathy to feed us into the same justification machine Suvi uses to filter her worldviews.

FooldiverDX

Nope. Even if it takes forever I will reach his level. Not be him - be equal to him.

Gerard Beatty

I'm not ok after this ep. How am I supposed to sleep. I need resolution now 😫

Genna

I don't have the capacity to form more complex explanations of my feelings right now, but YOUR words really hit home for me 🙏🏼🙏🏼💙 the fierce love felt for Suvi, her dance of fault and perfection, the challenge ahead. Gonna re-read this a few times💙

AliceH

But Naram wasn't being held by the Citadel and Steel said she was going to free him asap (whether she was lying, we don't know because she didn't get the chance). The Xiao paintings *do* seem bad but also the spirit Eursulon talked to makes it not 100% clear cut? I can only judge based on what happens on the podcast, so I just don't know what Suvi's seen as she grew up, hopefully we'll get more details as the campaign continues 🤞

DaphneDawn

SIR I HAVE A FAMILY. Yeah that monologue about Suvi leveled me

mguin

when the GM says strap in after you roll, whew, they are NOT fibbing Also, cool & unsettling end music! Love an ominous pluck of strings

Zivia Avelin

Or Marrow was acting on his own but in line with the aims of the citadel. I don’t think it’s as simple as steal was acting. I think she has misplaced loyalty similar to Suvi

Zivia Avelin

Damn Aabria and Brennan rock at moral grey

Zivia Avelin

I wonder how Hakea would have voted if Ame hadn’t lied

Al

I FUCKING KNEW IT HAHAHAHA HA (the final 10 seconds of the episode)

Zivia Avelin

I also think it’s interesting that Ame completely fails to convince Suvi to turn from the citadel then turns around and tells the witches that they must stake everything on that exact turning being possible. It’s brilliant and I’m not sure weather to call it optimism, dishonesty, blind stubbornness, or trust

Lojaan

What is there for Eursalon to say about the MiB? He has always been quite open about what he wants to do. You may not agree with his goals or methods, but he does have integrity.

Lojaan

Hot damn I would not want to have to argue against Suvi. She too smart. Ame needs to find another way. She will always lose if she takes Suvi on head on like that. Even if Suvi wants to be beaten.

Jordan Youssef

I think some stuff regarding the 13th horse went over my head, but I was thinking it could have been a Citadel machination in order to observe things regarding the Spirits (what was said about the eyes made of glass had me thinking that; there seems to be a glass theme with the Citadel). Kind of like those mechanical crabs that scientists use, the intention would be to blend in and walk amongst the alike animals for observation and study

Jordan Youssef

I just GOTTA know what Hakea’s intentions are! What’s going on in that brain of hers now that she’s woken up?? Why would she do that???

Kelsey Sobotka

honestly i think this was the most intense episode yet 😳 i am SO READY to watch hakea fuck shit up!!!! 👀 🔥 Q for the fireside chat: what were the thresholds on Ame's persuasion roll at the end? like, was it 20 for Hakea to side with her, or were everybody's votes pretty much set in stone unless Ame rolled INSANELY well?

Max

My favorite episode so far

Sil

As a character, Ame has no desire to "win" against Suvi. She is becoming more desperate, and Suvi is facing a level of cognitive dissonance she hasn't before that Aabria has fkn NAILED in portraying. It isn't about winning, it's about learning.

yup

This is the most "Swan lake " episode of all time, maybe not the one Ive enjoyed the most but god dam is it good...absolute watershed moment happening right now .

Lojaan

That's my point. If Ame wins, Suvi learns. When she loses, Suvi does not learn. Ame keeps trying to take on Suvi head on, to debate her. She can't win that way.

Kelsey Sobotka

hahahhahahhahhahahahaahhahhahahhahahahaaa 💀

Sil

Witch of The Word & Will. This is what we need.

Nefeli

I stand with my canceled wife. Suvi get behind me babe🤺🤺🤺

Nominal

Concerned 😂

Gill

I was supposed to sleep tonight...

annemjw

My exact thought! 😅

annemjw

THE MUSIC god the performances are absolutely top tier, incredible, but to pair that with these incredible soundscapes, effects, additional moments - just an absolute delight ❤️

Damien Kirby

Those last 30 seconds, they hit me the same way Calamity did. Which is probably the most replayed live play I've even listened to.

The Wizard Sparrow

I think I say this every week, but this has to be the best episode. last 30 minutes were insane; suvy (sky) casting the spell on herself was amazing. The storyline I have no idea what’s gonna happen and that is what makes this podcast so amazing because there’s just so many little stories inside this one episode

The Wizard Sparrow

And yet Suvi can’t wrap her mind around the fact Soft and Stone going against the citadel, all she knows is the kindness of the woman who raised her, Steel. … watch out I’m going to go down to rabbit hole….. we know the memory spell on Suvi is there because she needed to place the music box in the library, but what if she has one from childhood, We need to know the vision that those spiders grabbed when Suvi spoke her parents real names. I had a brief thought last episode…what if Steel is a double agent (why did she not go on the last mission) or there is a mind spell on Steel cast by Soft and Stone to protect (why? Not enough room for another rabbit hole lol )

The Wizard Sparrow

I started listening to this at 4 o’clock this morning and now all I want to do is journal my theories. I don’t think I can wait a whole week for the fireside chat😳😳

The Wizard Sparrow

Whoa, I didn’t catch the name switch. I mean, I know Ursula was mad angry and maybe that just covered up the fact that he switched from Suvi to Sky.

The Wizard Sparrow

Eursalon has not been forthcoming on a few things… the strand of “hangman’s rope” and the “pocket watch”. Neither Ame or Suvi are aware. Kudos on the quotes from the previous episodes. There are so many that are so good, which is why I listen multiple times🤗

The Wizard Sparrow

The images the glass spiders 🕷️ captured…the one Suvi pulled because she knew her parents real names.

The Wizard Sparrow

Thanks to her parents who figured out steps to omit when casting a specific spell. Was it to be clever and save time? keep more magic in the “citadel well”? or is it a way to hide from the citadel since their magic is a collection to be used by everyone. You are all clever and amazing storytellers ❤️❤️❤️

The Spirit of Vicious Inspiration

in all of the epic-ness, heartbreak, and insanity of this episode I had forgotten that Brennan began it all with an exaggerated slow-motion sausage drop 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣. the relisten this morning gave a renewed appreciation for that

Karen Hainstock

I spent this entire episode quietly screaming. I can't believe I have to wait a week for the Fireside

1man2hands

The music got sooo loud during the discussion of adding new witches to the coven and was drowning out the talking

Mae

I can’t believe the finale for this chapter comes out on my birthday, what an absolute TREAT, i can’t wait to weep and scream

CommodoreBlue

I don’t think the lie affected anyone’s votes, but it definitely hurt Ame’a relationship overall, and she has now technically “wronged” every witch in the coven, which will be very bad for her if she EVER has to fight them, even if it’s a long time in the future.

Mamasaurus

Not even halfway through the episode and I am hard weeping in my driveway this morning. At least I have warm coffee. 😭

Morgana Evenstar

Question for Taylor: There is a wailing note that plays in punctuation of big moments in the Coven theme music (such as the entry of the retinues) that sounds almost like the voice of the Ghost of Christmas Yet to Come from the George C Scott Christmas Carol. Can you talk a bit about sound cues like it and how you choose the moments where the score begins to border on something larger and more momentous than mere music?

The Wizard Sexy

Suvi doesn't learn anything because she doesn't want to learn anything, not because Ame can't "win" their debates. She's made up her mind that the Citadel is right and good and defends that position by attacking anyone who says otherwise, even if it's her best friends. There's nothing that Ame can say to pierce that veil. Suvi has decided that enslaving great spirits and using them to commit genocide against the enemies of the Empire is a cool thing to do. Even if Ame had the time to change Suvi's mind, it's not her job to do so.

Liz

Yeah, I was SHOCKED there was no comeback to “just because you don’t know what it’s like to have a family…” I do sympathize with Suvi—to suddenly be forced to reckon with the complete destabilization of her worldview and confusion about what has been done to her is really difficult, and she has shown a tendency to lash out when cornered, but MAN, that was cruel.

Liz

“So you DO remember Mr. Whiskers!” took me OUT

Liz

Yep, equating her self-worth with the organization she represents is maybe not the healthiest thing!

The Wizard Seek

Suverin Kedberikett, they could never make me hate you 🤺🤺🤺

Adam Driver

Props to Aabria's incredible acting this episode. I got so angry at her. Her rhetoric is so incredibly fkn toxic (And thats a compliment) She reminds me of arguments i had with some people in my life. The artistry in this epsiode was really really good. I know people are going to dogpile suvie in this ep. But i want to extend recognition to how resonant and uncomfortable that was.

The Wizard Seek

I think even two months worth of events aren't enough to break twenty some odd years worth of conditioning to the contrary- of course Suvi doesn't want to learn that her home is, yknow, committing what would count in our world as war crimes. I don't think anyone seeks that level of destabilization willingly. Everyone has a different threshold for what ye olden justification machine can do and Suvi's has been very finely honed. This isn't a comment towards you in particular, but I do find folks tend to really align with Ame and Eursulon and can't see at all how confronting Suvi on the citadel being problematic whilst in the same breath saying you're about to go vote on whether or not you will join in it's destruction is one HELL of a way to put someone on the back foot. I agree with Ame and Eursulon, hell, I agree with Hakea. But also Suvi is like, twenty, and her entire life until two months ago was the citadel- save for a summer at Grandma Wren's, so I can't really blame her for her reaction here, as much as I know that the proof she wants isn't realistic or possible. They're all so young 😭

Matt Doyle

Agree. It was really irritating. Great episode otherwise

The Wizard Star

Even across realms, no highly advanced magical city is safe. But seriously, Abria's capture of Suvie in that moment of meteoric impact was amazing. Her screaming "You ran away!" and then whispering "I'm sorry"; my heart broke for Suvi. Girl needs a full cargo train to carry that load.

Mia

Omg for the love all that is good tear this facist empire down. I’m so tired of the but let’s find middle ground with the citadel

August D.

The echo effect after “and you still RAN” was just 🤌🏻

Dolphin

I didn't notice this, but I was listening on noise canceling headphones. I've noticed it can be hard to listen to unless you're on headphones, I wonder if that was your issue? Apologies if not though!

Amber Sewell

Damn, Taylor. The score at the end of this episode was *killer*. Gave me chills. I had to relisten, and then couldn’t listen to anything else for the rest of my drive to just sit in it. Amazing work. 💚

Dolphin

Feels on brand for her domain. The citadel is intent on mastering the forces of nature and the spirit, makes sense for her to oppose that, even if she likes Ame on a personal level.

1man2hands

Nope, I had headphones on! And at the start of it only the one but I put the other on in case it was somethin weird and stereo-y but it didn't help

The Wizard Seek

This! Oh my GOD! So well spoken, my friend, I have quoted this comment so many times in the short hours it's been posted. You put so many of my feelings into words- I'm right there with you as a recovering people pleaser relating to so much about Suvi and aching for her. We need some kind of suvi support network 😭

Colleen Brenner

AAAAAHHHHHHHHHH 😭😭🤮🤮😭😭😭♥️

Dolphin

I feel like all Suvi really needed to hear from Ame was, "we saw some evidence of the citadel attempting to control great spirits, which is something I feel is not good, but I would certainly not condemn every citizen of the citadel, which is what some of my sisters are effectively voting for. It's a complicated issue, but I love you and stand for the people and ideals YOU care for and will fight to find the most peaceful way forward, even if there are some things I can't compromise on."

Leon Harrison

I feel like the witch of the world's heart subclass should be able to add there wisdom to charisma checks.

Dolphin

Suvi certainly lashed out and said stuff that crossed the line (no family comment), but I really think this is mostly because she wasn't hearing the above clearly, especially when she's already in the middle of a breakdown of her own regarding the self-identify spell and extremely vulnerable. She needed comfort at that moment more than anything.

Dolphin

Also god what an amazing performance from both of them, the vulnerability as players willing to go to these places is so incredible

Dolphin

Certainly no middle ground with fascism and colonialism, but I think there's a good chance that Rhuv and the Man in Black ruling it are just more fascism and colonialism to replace it, which I think is what Ame was starting to grasp at. Just because there's a spirit at the top doesn't mean it isn't still domination. The MiB is a spirit and therefore a FORCE of nature - of death (primarily although I think he's more complex than just death), which is of course an important part of the natural world, but that doesn't mean it should be at the top of an empire controlling humanity. If I was gonna pick a great spirit to be at the top, it would be something like the spirit of harmony and balance, not death. Naram for president.

The Wizard Seek

Brennan "I don't make my villains hot" Lee Mulligan is a liar, and we love him for it 😤😂

Fable Foxtale

Aabria, sugar. "I don't know what to do, just tell me the right thing to do and I'll do it." I had a whole ass moment on the floor of my kitchen.

The Overthinker

I had to listen to this in bits and skip around somewhat. It's too intense! It matters so much and I need it to be okay!

Sammi Jacobs

First of all, where is Aabria’s Oscar!? Emmy!? Tony!? Hell, even Grammy! Her performance during the break down was so good and gut wrenching! Aabria really drove that feeling of existential crisis and feeling lost Suvi was experiencing. Like I almost cried (cuz I’ve been there before too)😭😭😭!

Sammi Jacobs

Ngl, even though the feelings on attacking the Citadel are complicated, I’m excited to see a fight between the Coven & Man in Black vs. The Citadel & Empire. I love epic fights, especially when they have dire consequences! Hakea saying yes was sooo good! Ame woke her back up and it has now caused good and bad consequences for them😂😂😂😭😭😭 I can’t wait to cry more!!!!

Brandon Rilling

Dear Taylor, It is not OK that you are this good at sound editing. Please keep doing what you're doing though. Thanks you for enhancing this experience in all the big and small ways that you do.

Kenzie

That score at the end??!!? Holy Shit?!?

The Wizard Sexy

I really have to question if Suvi deserves the unconditional compassion and patience a lot of commenters are asking of Ame and Eursulon. What has Suvi done to demonstrate that she is on the right side of this debate? Every time they learn about new magic being created to capture and enslave great spirits, her first thought is "the power of that magic is incredible," which she will then say out loud, in front of Eursulon. Her baseline worldview is that the way to deal with spirits is to control them, and if they oppose your control, well, then "they get what they fucking get". She's seen the derrick and the Kasov collection with her own eyes, and through the eyes of Eursulon, and she still has zero compassion for the spirits being subjugated by the Empire. Why should Eursulon in this moment extend compassion to Suvi, again, as she blindly throws out yet another pile of criticisms against the Citadel? As for Ame, so far at this conclave all she has done is support the Citadel and work for peace, yet Suvi has repeatedly accused her of siding with the spirits and the witches against the wizards. She's criticized Ame for even speaking with the Antivolist and for hearing the arguments of the witches, when those things are literally part of Ame's job description. She claims to be there to support Ame in her goal of finding compromise between the spirits and the mortals, but to Suvi, compromise means getting what she wants, so she is fundamentally incapable of helping. Case in point, she took advantage of her friend's position as an advocate of peace to sneak in and commit an act of war. Suvi is in a tough place. I love her as a character, and I can't wait for her to break through her conditioning, but she is Not A Good Guy right now. Many of the problems she's experiencing are not only problems she's created for herself, but are problems that she would unhesitatingly create again. Until she's ready to confront her worldview, patience and compassion will simply be a waste of time and frankly, Ame and Eursulon have more important things to attend to.

Kenzie

I dm for one and I let them take expertise in insight and persuasion when the rolls have to do with members of their community

Kenzie

Suvi need to hear what Ame said to Eurselon immediately after the presentation 😢

Elizabeth Boskey

I think that sometimes it’s not “let’s find middle ground with the citadel” and more “maybe we can stop what they’re doing without slaughtering an entire population many of whom have nothing to do with the horrible things the citadel does, have little to no agency in citadel decisions, and may not even know the truth of what’s going on.” It’s hard not to see real world parallels

Kiera Faye

I agree. It's hard to hear her accuse her true friends, again and again, of "never" considering her, when they are in fact working very hard to consider her and her home despite mounting evidence. The always/never dichotomy of trauma and insecurity. Heartbreaking and powerful performance from Aabria.

Ion Soul

Hey Taylor? I’m gonna need the whole soundtrack, stat. I need a seatbelt for this rollercoaster of emotions

Sean Britcher

Brennan's reaction when Suvi decides to use Identify on herself? And then the description/revelation and Suvi's breakdown? Ooh yeah that's the good pathos and *Drama*. Listening to this episode, i said out loud "Mulligan you Magnificent Bastard" (said with administration for someone who is DAMN GOOD at his craft)

Kenzie

The way she was the only one to invoke her station when voting

Sydney Jay

I hate to see our trio fighting, but I am SO proud of Ame (ESPECIALLY Ame omg) and Eursalon sticking up for themselves when talking with Suvi. The music was incredible 😭!!! Beautiful jobs, all around!! AAAAAAAHHHH 😍 I cannot wait until the next episode!

Kenzie

I loved Eursulon in particular getting angry with Suvi. I think Suvi and Ame are much more in agreement than that final conversation made it seem, but Eursulon and Suvi may need to properly have it out.

Kenzie

Suvi saying to Eursulon “I trapped you here. I tried to do the right thing and I ruined …” My god. What a heartbreaking thesis for the character

Adam Driver

It wouldn't have helped. Suvi wasn't honestly addressing anything Ame said. If you re-listen to the episode, she dishonestly misrepresented everything ame said in a way that paints Ame as the villain or the one that fails to grasp the situation. There is no argument - no matter how well constructed - that would not be used as a rhetorical bludgeon to hit Ame with. This is consistent with Suvi's rhetoric, even when you hear her capitulate to Suvi's talking points, it does not cause Suvi to soften - Instead, the opposite. This is why so many are complimenting Aabria this episode. This is a real argument much of us has been in, and it is captured in 100% accuracy. This kind of argumentation is pretty common with nepo babies and people raised as "gifted children". Aabria did an amazing job this episode. ;)

Adam Driver

You're presenting this situation way too binarily. The situation is extremely complex, which is what his entire episode is about... Suvi is correct in her accusation, Ame is being a fencesitter because of being afraid to rock the boat. She is not being good at reasoning her arguments because she's having a mental breakdown. But many of the things Suvi says is correct.

kat singer

i got full body chills multiple times during this episode, but none so intensely as the final vote with the musical score. this episode was truly the most impactful storytelling performance i’ve ever heard 💜💜💜

Victoria Belward

TAYLOR!!! drop the wizard, the witch, and the wild one score and my life is yours!!!

Za'chary Westbrook

So...is Tefmet setting up a war to weaken the Antivolists' rivals and set up a return to power or what?

Will

That was a bit of a counterclaim on her part. She doesn't have to invest resources and time if she votes out, even if she does want the citadel to fall.

Sophie Rivers

THIS EPISODE!!!!! HOW! HOW I ASK YOU! HOW DOES EACH EPISODE SOMHOW MANAGE TO ALWAYS TOP THE LAST! LIKE ALL BANGERS, NOTHING BUT BANGERS! every episode i end with going "OMG THIS IS THE BEST EPISODE OF WWW SO FAR" the score! the Improve! the PLANNING AND WORLDBUILDING DEAR WORLD TREE ABOVE HOW DO THEY KEEP DOING IT! if any of you who make and produce this wonderful peice of art are reading this, thank you so much for the stories you tell, it brings a light to the worlds heart that not even unanimity could top! truly, i cannot wait for the next one. (and to re-listen to all of them 1000 times omg they're so good!!!)

Charlie

I didn’t get that, I think Tefmet is naturally against the empire & the empire may very well be doing some shady things.

Charlie

I say this as a compliment with all the love & admiration I can gather: that ending was absolutely fucked.

The Wizard Saison

I think I said this exact thing as it ended. Wow. I did not see that coming.

R. Shawn Abrahams

Right! And the solution is to side with Rhuv and the king of night? Which is just another toxic institution where humans are used as meat husks for great spirits. Yeah, seems like bringing the humans “to heel” is gonna be very utopian..

Dijonna Terry

This episode was so good it hurt my feelings 😢

RuviGaPo

W h o o w e e !!! TAYLOR i can tell marara is your favourite bc the music during her sequence broke my wholeass heart </3 And hakaea's last line???? Worst jumpscare of my life gd

R. Shawn Abrahams

The witches stated that they imprisoned spirits all the time. We saw Hakaea do it! So wouldn’t it be hypocritical to say “when we do it it’s fine but you all deserve eradication for doing it.” Not saying they are a shining beacon of morality, but at least they can say they are ignorant to the understanding of spirits. Also we saw a wizard get eviscerated by these witches and never saw anything close to that in the citadel. Not exactly and open and shut case on who to support.

Alyssa Landry

Agreed. It's such a tough place for both Suvi and Ame to be in. Its hard to hear Ame be so cautious and never making assumptions while telling Suvi the facts, and to have Suvi automatically get upset, reject the idea of it potentially being true, and assuming the mention of it is an attack on her and her family. I will say though, knowing people like Suvi personally, that is exactly how they react to any information that they perceive as being "against" their own beliefs. So very well acted by Aabria! I wonder how long it will take Suvi to come to terms with the truth and confront her worldview? It feels like she was *almost* there this episode before she turned her panic against Ame and Eursulon. It's also sad because if she had been raised by her parents she would already accept that truth. Poor girl.

Alyssa Landry

Great point! I've also noticed that Suvi's belief that her friends "never" consider her seems to come up whenever they disagree with her about the best approach to an issue. I think it's very much a clear indicator of how the Citadel has shaped her thinking- that if you disagree with the Citadel, you are against it. Cut and dry. And this has bled into Suvi's world view. So heartbreaking.

Emily C

I'm still reeling - the MUSIC IS ITS OWN PC AT THIS POINT the lies the identify the fight, the low down dirty things we say when we fight with people we love the crow the MUG

Alyssa Landry

I know people like Suvi- when they're mad, upset, or physically hurt everything is overwhelming to them and they cannot think straight. Everything they hear is primed to be taken as a personal attack and they lash out because of it. What you outlined, I think would work great on Suvi if she was in a clear headspace. However, because she was already having a panic attack, giving her any information would have resulted the same way. While I know it wasn't possible (thanks, Fox) I think Suvi would have taken things better if she had a few days at least to process what she saw in that Identify Spell.

Trish K

ok the music continues to astound me but damn hakaea that was so slay of you to vote like that she’s everything to me

Alyssa Landry

Part of the issue is that even if not everyone from the Citadel is condemned, Suvi's foster mother is still the head of the Citadel's army. So no matter what her mother figure would be at risk.

Alyssa Landry

Right?! I need like a 5 hour long fireside for them to talk about every detail, too!

Karen Hainstock

200% this. I was taking a morning coffee walk listening to the episode and I almost did a spit take in the middle of the sidewalk. My body simply could not handle it

Alyssa Landry

Yes!! This sums it up so well! She's a people pleaser who was broken, and then kept safe by an organization that indoctrinationed her by taking advantage of that. Poor sweet baby! I know so many people like this.

Cocomoose

I had to listen to this in chunks due to how amazing and anxious I got but didn’t want it to end. Seriously phenomenal they all are bringing their A+++++++++. Game. Seriously the emotions behind all of this was fantastic. From Suvi identify on her self and just the breakdown I just wanted to hug her. She is so right in so much and just needs to unravel and sleep. Ame being in an impossible decision right now and just the weight on her shoulders to the ups and downs of their friendship. And not having a moment to breath and sleep and a fulll meal to fully process all what’s happen but it’s hard when it’s just back to back. That ending with Hakea thanking Ame and just that turn to let’s burn that tower down. Was just jaw dropping!!! THIS IS WHAT I CALL PRESTIGE STORY TELLING!!!!!!

Jactothemac

Goosebumps. Had to re-listen to multiple sections because... WOW. Outstanding.

Sil

What I'm saying is there's no winning, because winning requires competing parties.

Sil

Tears, Taylor. ~31min score is... wrenching. Please, a playlist? That we can import to Spotify? 🙏🏻

Yaseen abdul-malik

I know I've said this more than once but it's sooooo9ooooooooooo guuud

Yaseen abdul-malik

Quick question and I swear I'm not a bot. What would 2 nat 20s have done for ame in that persuasion roll?

Miriam Unruh

Or he is in a similar position to Suvi.

Emma K Carter

This was one of my absolute favorite episodes. SO GOOD.

Aesthetic Pest

Okay but the MIXING ON OUR FANCY BIRTHDAY SURROUND SOUND SYSTEM???? TAYLOR!!! THANK YOU CHEF!!! I’m only ever listening to this in my living room while commandeering the tv and speakers for the next fifteen years my family can GET WITH IT OR GET OUT

Dominic Corbin

Indri still wants the station of the World's Heart gone (and others), and that probably means Ame needs to go as well. Mirara is pushing the Pilgrim's agenda for her own reasons though she has plenty of distrust now for Indri (and likely Grimore). Ame would likely need to manipulate the situation again for a vote against the Pilgrim on the grounds he wants to kill her, or seek support with Hakea and Grimore. Unfortunately it seems likely the window for such action has passed. Indri set the vote for the aligning the Coven with the Pilgrim against the Citadel as the last item on the conclave's agenda, and told everyone to leave afterward.

Dominic Corbin

The Antivilists left the Citadel because the opposed what it was becoming, so Tefmet interprets the Citadel's works in negative ways. He may not be wrong to do so, it certainly seems like the Citadel is up to shady things. Tefmet may also be unable to interpret things in ways that an insider would. He says "the Citadel can see almost anything". This is a statement that is likely true on it's face, but ignores that the Citadel is gigantic bureaucracy, part research lab, part barrack, part military academy, and has has trouble coordinating its many different parts into unified whole. We saw that wizards have their pet projects, misappropriate funds and resources for their uses, game their own systems for their own ends, etc. Yet are still called by the Empire to fight and turn their intellect and might to devastating war if needed. Morrow was not a "Citadel" wizard as judged by other Citadel wizards, but did train there before "washing out", and hoped to return. What would Tefmet think him to be? His spirit capturing lenses represent a terrifying capability. Now that it exists, what will the Citadel do with it? Tefmet did not tell all he knew, nor does he know all the Citadel's plans for them. Perhaps they were simply to be mothballed, perhaps something more sinister. We can only guess. The suggestion that the Citadel wizards are using areas of the near-Spirit where time flows differently to breed captive honored friends is new information, and mightily troubling. Our heroes must find the truth behind these questions, determine if it is rogue wizards conducting experiments or if the leaders of the Citadel are aware, if they will stand with the Citadel against the forces arrayed to destroy it, or if they will fracture as a group.

worldsbeyondnumber

Looks like that was technical error. Fixing it now, sorry about that! -t

worldsbeyondnumber

Also if there is ever an audio or editing error that egregious, please feel free to DM us here on the Patreon. I'll see that much faster. -t

1man2hands

All good! Didn't even know that was a thing I could do!

Dominic Corbin

I interpreted Indri's No vote as her thinking that since Ame was voting No she might as well "opt out" as Brennan says of a group project she doesn't particularly wish to participate in. She likely calculates that with all the forces arrayed against the Citadel it is almost certain to fall anyway. Indri is almost certainly looking for any opening to use the distraction of the war to arrange an end to a coven station.

Dominic Corbin

Wren was the only one against destroying the Citadel in the past, so this is a consistent position for Hakea.

The Witch of the Written Word

I know it was 2 secs, but Mirara kept the cup. I know in that scene, she broke it, but Mirara KEPT THE CUP. Given to her BY A CHILD. SHE KEPT IT FOR 10+ YEARS! That small moment of courtesy and kindness and not being utterly afraid from Ame 10 years ago Mirara has held on to ALL THIS TIME. I'm gonna go sit with that for a bit.

Witpending

It took exactly one scene with Mirara by herself to convince me that she's ripe for a redemption arc. Dump his ass girl! You can do better!

Dominic Corbin

I believe technically Morrow got his materials directly from the Imperium through the Scepter's Chorus (whatever it was named), and not through the Citadel. It was also outside Suvi's friend Gallani's command (governor of Port Talon) unless I am wrong, and so no Citadel wizard was signing off on Morrow's derrick project. Now if Tefmet's Library is aware of those particular divisions withing the Empire is unknown.

The Witch of the Written Word

I see a lot of conversation on here about Suvi and her worldview needing change and growth. But I think the same could be said for Ame. I love Grandma Wren, and I think she was a lovely person and fantastic witch but I think she'd be the first to agree that she wasn't perfect. The way she has handled (or hasn't handled - we don't know) the conflict between human (Citadel?) and spirit so far hasn't worked. They're still ramping to war. So for Ame to talk of sticking with Grandma Wren's path in the face of all that has been set before her*, feels very shortsighted to me...and totally on par for a witch scrambling into their station with a healthy dose of 'watch how you speak of my mother who raised me' of her own (well done Erika). So excited to see how Ame will face this aspect in the obvious need of her own plan. *THE KITTY MUG 😭

KSolstice

💀🦊😂🌳💖

Adarsh Nednur

THIS SHOW IS THE GREATEST THING THAT'S EVER EXISTED GODDAMN

Adarsh Nednur

I saw Hakea's vote coming in the last minute or two, but Indri's vote definitely blindsided me, holy cow, this show freaking rocks

Adarsh Nednur

I find it frustrating that Ame and Eursulon accuse Suvi and Steel of not being on their side and not sticking up for the spirits when every time she asks for them to wait for Steel to show up and prove that she is willing to help and that the resources of the Citadel can be turned towards good, they cut loose and jump in anyway. I'm not saying that Steel would definitely have acquitted herself as someone to trust in these moments, but she literally has said all the right things and still not been given a chance to even demonstrate which side she is actually on. As such, I think "What has Suvi done to demonstrate she is on the right side of this debate?" is an unreasonable question. Every time she tries to demonstrate, the others go rogue. Also, re: controlling spirits, both Suvi's and Steel's guiding belief about spirits is, "Spirits will do what they want," and Suvi's father freed several spirits from the Kasov collection. I think it's fair to say that Suvi is too deferential to the Citadel to immediately stand against the subjugation of spirits even when she knows it is wrong, but I think it is very clear that Suvi does not herself believe in the subjugation of spirits. Fundamentally, I think Suvi is absolutely trapped in her pro-Citadel worldview and needs to confront that, but I think the moment that she is having the most complicated feelings of her life about the place that she calls home was not a good moment to say that the coven of witches which that morning tried to kill her best friend is now going to vote on whether that home should be leveled and turned into a parking lot, and it's a pretty fucking tough ask of anyone to not get defensive in the moment that that's suggested. "I'm not agreeing that we should kill all of the wizards, but you have to admit they have a point," is not a good way to frame a discussion about the flaws of the Citadel, and I'd push back on that too. I think Ame and Eursulon were also completely justified in how they acted and interacted with her, but like... this is the only way this conversation could go here, it was unbelievably and unavoidably bad timing.

RuviGaPo

Y e s !! Dump his ass !!

RuviGaPo

Thank you now im crying about that too XD TuT)b

Jon O

Went from that super fun high from last episode right into the trenches. Another thick ‘sode to chew on till the next fireside

#KittyLearnsToCook

Whewww as soon as Suvi hit below the belt about Ame's family...! The fact Ame didn't immediately strike back was kind of her tbh 😂

Bladeless Knife Productions

Oh, Hikeia, you may have roused yourself from indifference, and you may be vastly wise, but you have still fallen for Indri’s classic “let’s you and him fight” con. It’s probably too late to take an apprentice, but you’re going to need one soon.

Sil

Do we suspect she turned it into a fetch/ token/poppet etc so she could spy on the cottage?

shubidoe

This was the first episode where I absolutely related to suvi and her struggle and I loved it so much, and I love how you can be angry with characters, and love them the next moment as if you yourself are an old friend. I fricking love this story so much.

Stefanucci Mozzarella

Warfare requires some form of dishonesty or misdirection. It’s never about the big outcome that is proclaimed, there’s always a more advantageous position being sought after. That’s what The Art of War states. The MiB wants something and remains vague about it, and I think it’s more than just taking down the Citadel and keeping Great Spirits free, so I don’t think he’s in integrity. Yes! Hakea has been saying for Milleania the world is going to shit. The MiB is probably older than she! MiB is probably impatient and ready to create change. Which means The Citadel has likely been the icing on top a very old problem: The Arcane is out of Balance with the Spirit World. But! I think that’s the point and the witches and ancient spirits know this too. But capturing Great Spirits and essentially enslaving them… OK, things are going to far! On the surface it makes sense a war has been “earned”. The MiB is willing to kill witches, even very old ones, even ones that are stubbornly intent on finding peace. Maybe to the MiB that’s integrity… not to me. But to a paladin?To Eursalon? What is his sense of integrity…what is Eursalon’s Oath? What was he feeling during his time present at the meeting as this Vote was being recognized from Tefmets evidence?

Stefanucci Mozzarella

I’m thinking it’s a lot to take in. All that momentum of life, just to drop it all? I don’t think Suvi is unwilling to learn. It’s a hard thing to pivot and accept when she learns mostly through Steel, she’s young and doesn’t collect how the small incident is a reflection of the greater. Also note, Suvi doesn’t quickly give up and let go on her friend: Ame.

Stefanucci Mozzarella

I think Suvi gives Ame her arguments because she trusts Ame. She wants to experience her tension with someone.

Stefanucci Mozzarella

It’s also weird that Eursalon knew this and didn’t say anything even though he was invited and had the encouragement of the group to speak freely. There’s a stunt in the communication.

Evelina Meiklejohn

My god this episode absolutely wrecked me. 😭😭😭

The Wizard Sexy

Stef, they're saying the Man in Black appeared in the moment that Wren died, not that he appeared to be correct in his reasonings.

Laurenthian

(spoiler) Would Hakea's answer been different if she'd voted before Indri (or Ame)? Is she for war or against whatever Indri is scheming/Indri herself?

The Wizard Sexy

Maybe it's bad luck. Or maybe you set yourself up for failure when you piss off everyone in the neighborhood.

Laramie Hearn

I need that closing song in my Spotify NOW TAYLOR

Nina

(spoiler) Did Indri vote no so that if the other witches die in war she will finally have her her one-woman coven?

The Wizard Slut

Gaslight gatekeep girlboss -literally every witch in the coven

VFD

(Light spoil) I LOVE that Ame and Eursulon didn’t let Suvi dominate the argument this time and stood their ground! Incredible episode.

Breoni Hester

I adore Suvi, and related to her so hard in this episode. I also really realized for all the times I’ve been annoyed at her before, of the 3 of them she’s the one who compromises herself and what she knows for the other two ALL the time and I was so frustrated with Ame & Eursolon for passing moral judgement on her for struggling to do it again when it keeps blowing up in her face…anyway, Aabria is an oldest daughter I just know it.

Stefanucci Mozzarella

I agree. I think he greatly admires The Man in Black and is currently in a state of being influenced/impressed by him. He shows up devoted to Ame after the presentation by Tefmet, admits his gripes and trust. Im really curious what this will all lead to for Eursalon. Is he level 3 yet? I don’t think he proclaimed an Oath aloud._

Heydon Hensley

HOLY FUCKING SHIT!!! Ame's line, "You don't need to be wicked or cruel to be wrong." My god, that resonated in my soul. And Suvi's struggle with being indoctrinated into Empire and seeing the lies upon lies she was fed and not knowing what or who to trust. Too real. And Lou (or whoever guest-starred as Lou as Ursalon) grounded the heck out of that scene with Suvi. Brilliant episode. Y'all are weaving incredible stories.

Heydon Hensley

omg, right?! The "awakening from empire" scene was so real and so deeply heart-rending and familiar.

DomPie

Easily one of my favorite moments in this episode. 😂 So absurd, but also of course Eursulon would drop whatever he had in his mouth/hands at seeing the discs. It just so happened to be… a sausage.

bluebluebutton

Ame practicing kindness in the face of several ad hominems this episode fills me with endless admiration of her childhood quest to "be kind" and frustration on behalf of the cruelty towards herself that she lets slide.

Amaya

I feel like Suvi is a character designed to just keep taking Ls and I feel so bad for her. Can't win for losing. Even when she feels like she's done all the things she was supposed to and all the things asked of her she's still met with such scorn for asking that the same benefit of the doubt her friends give to everything else be extended to her as well. She needs a hurt/no comfort tag. But once again, such excellent storytelling and such compelling characters 👏🏾

bluebluebutton

Suvi's cruelest impulses are directed at Ame. It makes me think Suvi has identified Ame as that "nemesis" mentioned in childhood.

DomPie

There’s so much to love about this episode. But the way that Aabria built up Suvi’s decision to cast Identify on herself and the way Brennan described Suvi’s experience of the Identify spell were just *chef’s kiss* amazing. When Brennan exhaled heavily and said “strap in” my expectations went through the roof. Did not disappoint.

Adarsh Nednur

Personally I think she actually voted her conscience, not just against Indri. She represents the natural world, so maybe she has an objection to the Citadel's machinery and militarization and feels like humanity would be better off returned to a more "primitive" lifestyle. Or maybe as the witch who originally conceived of a coven where witches exist in covenant and make decisions and compromises with each other peacefully (which she was just reminded of and inspired by), she feels that an organization that refuses peace at every turn must be punished or stopped at all costs. Hakea strikes me as too ornery to do the kind of scheming and politicking that just voting against Indri would suggest lol

Adarsh Nednur

That's a great point, but she knew Ame was going to vote no, and they emphasized that no witch could be compelled to participate against their wishes, so I think she'd know that Ame would live no matter what. I think it's possible that she just doesn't care enough about others to have a dog in this fight, and she thinks it's just as well that the spirits and wizards all fight each other to the death. Plus Mirara said the Man in Black is powerful enough to win on his own, so she might just think, "Why stick my own neck out for a cause that will already be successful?" But idk I can't wait to see what we learn about her motivations

Pat & Heather

FINALLY caught up and ooooh boy what an episode to catch up to! This just gets better and better. When Suvi started sobbing to Eursulon about how it was all her fault he's been stuck in the mortal world and how she'd do anything to fix it, it just got me sobbing along with her.

Megs

Crying, screaming, throwing up, etc. Holy shit you guys.

Renée Reynolds

“The same rug that Suvi cast her first spell to protect Urselon.” SOBBING CRYING THROWING UP HOW DARE YOU BRENNAN.

Cheese

MANNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN what a banger, an ep that makes me want to go back and listen to the entire series from the beginning to get a better grasp on it!! Feeling so much for all the characters and how they could all be right about what's going on (or wrong!) and how all of their biases and histories and beliefs will pull on them no matter how neutral or logical they believe themselves. And I don't even mean this towards the main cast but all of the NPCs involved now too. I can't wait to see how the truth of everything shakes out, HOW BIG DOES THE ONION GROW BRENNAN

Julianna Richie

The fight with Ame and Suvi really felt like there was so much under the surface. I can't help but feel like Suvi may be jealous of Ame despite everything. The fact that Ame is only a couple years older than her, has no formal citadel training, has no connections, and YET Ame is in a HUGE position of power. Suvi is still treated like a child in the citadel. She's a wizard sure and has her name, but...she hasn't really gained a new post, more power, more renown. I would really love to hear Aabria's take on this. Maybe the fight /is/ about trust and the Citadel, but Ame said she wasn't going to vote yes so why is Suvi upset? Because Ame gets to make these big decisions on her own without anyone pulling rank? Because Ame can go 'quest mode' and the consequences are that she gets more powerful while Suvi gets yelled at by her mom? idk...I'm feeling some gifted kid meets the real world energy here....

DancingCat

This episode has had me feral. I've been thinking about this series non stop for daaaaaays!!!!! Like just the parallel of Suvi saying you get what you get to the bugs in the childrens adventure, then the get what you get in the kudzoo, and now the witches have voted for the wizards to get what they get o.o

StWindsor

The episode, especially the ending was phenomenal! And that outro *chef’s kiss*

Divanté Malachi

I feel like you've really cut to the core of the issue between them

Divanté Malachi

I think it's also because she kind of knows that Ame has her number and could potentially reveal that she's actively plotting for all of the other stations to fall so she's making sure to "side" with Ame for now until she can get rid of her

Divanté Malachi

Nah I think Hakea has it, girlie stands at the top of the verse I'm calling it

Divanté Malachi

Ame is fr better than me because I would've hit back and *hard*

Divanté Malachi

Fr would've been like don't blame me for you failing to live up to the dead and needing to be propped up by the citadel time and time again

Divanté Malachi

Ame's almost deification of Wren needs to really get checked by someone at some point for her to learn that lesson it feels

Divanté Malachi

He is level 3 but hasn't taken an oath yet, they've said that it'll happen during play

Divanté Malachi

I feel like this is all leading to a big, "you get what you get" moment for the citadel

Divanté Malachi

But the crucial thing is that all guildmages came up out of the citadel, sure they were drummed out and scorned by "daddy" daddy being the citadel but that's still the soil they grew up in

Divanté Malachi

Fr Suvi really struggles with black and white thinking. It's always if you're not with me you're against me with her

Nadia Barnett

Where can I find the transcript?

Divanté Malachi

But the thing is that Suvi never wants to accept that problems that show up in individual wizards are the product of core issues with how the citadel operates philosophically

Divanté Malachi

Gramore is right, maybe there was a chance for there to be no bloodshed years ago but Wren squandered the time that she had then. All the paths that lay before us are stained with blood and littered with bodies the only possibility is finding a way to lower the number not eliminate them

Divanté Malachi

As said before though, whenever Suvi sees a new method to subjugate and control spirits her gut reaction and assessment is an approving one

Divanté Malachi

Nah fuck saying it's bad consequences Hakea waking the fuck up is the best win of the series hands down, I need my GOAT on the field making big plays

Divanté Malachi

This isnt true for the others but I distinctly don't think Hakea is clouded by hate though, I think she's moving from necessity and not from emotion when she proclaims for the tower to be torn down

Divanté Malachi

Well it wasn't said that Hakea was on anyone's side during that, I think she was as checked out as she was at the beginning of the conclave

Divanté Malachi

BUT HEY WE'RE FORGETTING THAT THE EMPIRE AND THE CITADEL IS THE US IN THAT ANALOG

Divanté Malachi

Fr Suvi feels free to lash out at Ame because she doesn't feel like she's wronged her but my girl you have to see that you have

Divanté Malachi

Crucially, Steele isn't the whole of the citadel and Suvi's intial pride over the derrick doesn't say good things about the sentiments of the citadel as a whole

Divanté Malachi

We'll have to strike down the empire and the citadel, then immediately turn our swords on the pilgrim under stars

Divanté Malachi

Someone really needs to just talk to this woman fr. On a peer to peer let's understand eachother really basis

Aabria Iyengar

The absolute nicest way I can put this is "please trust what I have shown you of Suvi instead of pitching new and poorly reasoned flaws for her."

DomPie

In this specific moment, I think Suvi is feeling a lot of hurt and betrayal on top of exhaustion and also on the heels of the discovery from the Identify spell. She’s shown herself to be a loyal friend (Suvi’s main love language perhaps), and I think she just wants to see that reciprocated. So when Ame demands without hesitation that Suvi walk away from her own family (even assuming there’s sound justification for it), that is Ame failing to meet Suvi’s expectations. And of course Suvi would be upset. On the other hand, Ame is probably feeling a ton of pressure from the weight of her responsibilities esp in light of Tefmet’s revelations and a then-possible, now certain war (eek!), all of which is also completely understandable. There’s a lot at stake for Ame, who is supposed to be the steward for peace and harmony. She needs Suvi by her side now.

Ren Dara

Hakea getting hyphyyyyy

Stefanucci Mozzarella

Maybe people are learning to feel tapestries just as the characters are. The magic of this art. Thank you for putting your hearts out there for us to feel, WBN cast… it matters.

Joseph O'Toole

This is the kind of art that takes a certain mental, emotional strength and readiness just to hold, feel, and experience as a listener - never mind to create. Thank you all for your loving, beautiful choices in this story and the hard work that has made it possible. These comments go to show both how much everyone appreciates this beauty, but also how deep and true and challenging and meaningful this story is - about humanity, about institutions, about forces of nature and impulse. When you have dozens of people disagreeing from the heart within the world of the story, you've left the sometimes-flimsy characterisations of the average TTRPG game a long way behind. Every week my life is enriched by either the rich depth and wonder of this world and its people, or the joy of Fireside silliness with the fascinating brilliance of all the real humans involved (without intentionally-included, organic, tragic flaws and conflicts!). Also, ow, the conflict of this one hits like a train and needed me to wait for a less emotionally fragile day 😆 and yet, so worth it!

Lev Goldiner

One of the best episodes. This the pure art of storytelling

SapphireBlaze

Loved this episode, didn't love how it made me feel in the middle of a shift, keep it up guys.

OneGirlPainting

Nina, I think so AND Ame’s last persuasion… maybe she lost a saving roll that wasn’t verbalized.

OneGirlPainting

Same! I thought they were going to have to call Suvi back and sort of testify to all they did in Port Talon. Turned the tables on me right at the start.

Cathie Heyer

Suvi feeling no choice but to defend the people and institutions that just broke her heart moments before because they are what gave her strength and stability absolutely broke me. That sense of duty that she once again pulls herself up to defend and uphold even when fully shattered by what she just discovered, I can’t find words for how much my heart hurt for her in that moment. I can identify with that level of compartmentalization and it was beautifully and heart wrenchingly done. I know the running joke by the fireside is that Suvi can be a bit of a shit. But as someone who has had take broken pieces and try and prove they are steady ground thank you Aabria for showing just how hard that is. The entire project has had me enraptured from day one and I can’t wait to hear more!! Was this the first time the Suvi had any idea about a prophecy that could be still developing around her or had she overheard rumblings growing up and just never made the connection?

Erin Mundy

And nothing a quick mending cantrip from Ame couldn’t fix…. Essentially giving the mug BACK

Issy (the Wizard Scramble)

The rug where Ursulon protects Suvi being the same one where Suvi protected Ursulon made me sob

Rachel

I was screaming on the highway in anxiety. Them fighting was so good and also *the worst*. Aabria crying hit so fucking hard

TheloniousPunkyBrewster

The sudden loss of stability where everything goes out of focus and is replaced by your ineffable deepest fears ... yeah that hit REAL fucking hard in the best way possible

TheloniousPunkyBrewster

As somebody who has done exactly that .. Yes, yes, a thousand times Yes!! This crew knows how to plant narrative seeds, tend to them with intention and care, and as this episode proved in a powerful way boy oh fuckin boy do they know how to harvest!

TheloniousPunkyBrewster

There's almost nothing more tragically relatable than the feeling of "Please - I would give anything to go back in time and do it differently"... which makes it the perfect precision pathos laden punch .

TheloniousPunkyBrewster

It was an expression of her reflexive loyalties in the most painful way "Suvi says a wizard is known by their secrets, I can't... expose my true friends secrets...okay I know, it doesn't have to do with the Citadel it was just Morrow... I'm not lying TECHNICALLY..." And the Sleeper Line of the episode: "You've opened yourself up to a fair number of curses by lying to your sisters" Boy oh boy when that fucking egg hatches, Godzilla is coming out of it !!!

Daniel Wilson

Okay so you understand that I NEED an entire album of just Taylor's world music, right?

TheloniousPunkyBrewster

My first reaction was an errant thought in Ame's voice ..."Suvi.... you ARE my family" And that's the story of how I wept openly on public transport

TheloniousPunkyBrewster

And as soon as Ame left the safety of the Cottege, The King of Cups, poured out one of his many many chalices in an attempt to kill her again...

TheloniousPunkyBrewster

I truly CANNOT get Aabrias imagery of a besotted Hot Topic Girlie out of my head tbh lol

Linden Flanagan

I know you guys all love this stuff but after finishing this episode my heart was beating so hard, are you three players like. Are you ok? I know you are! I know you have safety tools and recorded this months ago and all of that and YET.

TheloniousPunkyBrewster

I think the attempt on Wrens life indicates is no magical Article 5 to this coven ☠️ unless Mirara was making a "oh no it's not me it's just the Proxies in my domain" argument, which is tried and true in our world so wouldn't seem out of place in this

TheloniousPunkyBrewster

I think I could make the case that they've simply both found ways to harness the spirit world to their own ends 🤷🏻‍♀️

TheloniousPunkyBrewster

I'm reminded of a saying, I'm not sure where I first heard it, but "When great Elephants fight it is the grass that truly suffers" ... The poignancy of having "Millions of people" mentioned numerous times amidst these great plans by these powerful forces..... I am not making any judgement about either side , I do believe strength has its place within peace.. but you can't read "A Feast for Crows" a fistful of times without internalizing the reality of who really loses in war.... Which is why Ame's "YO HAVE WE FUCKING TALKED TO THEM YET?!?" line of questioning really resonated - I think our Witch of the Worlds Heart will prove Hakea's intuition that "Wren chose well" true !

TheloniousPunkyBrewster

That smacks to me of the circular logic of a self fulfilling prophecy.... The instant either side says diplomacy is impossible - then voila - it is. Always while asserting that the -other- is forcing their hand... I must needs disagree.

TheloniousPunkyBrewster

If you want fertile ground to plant upon you can do the painstaking work of pulling weeds- Or set fire to it all and plant in the ashes...

TheloniousPunkyBrewster

Episodes like this are where I feel Lou's usual restraint really pays off- fucking hell that man's got a set of gravely Grand Organ pipes And When Indry says "with unanimity the power of magic we will wield will be beyond what we have seen from this coven in an age" What do we think the last thing they all voted for with unanimity?

Linden Flanagan

Is it too late to ask questions for the Fireside for this ep and do we just put them here now? It's been a while since I've tried to get questions in.

Mika Zuki

I love how we have just forgotten about galthmy or whatever it's called. They put a curse on Ren and everyone is like... whatever... Also didn't the king of night try to undercut hacaya??? I thought she would have said no

Mika Zuki

I'm probably missing something but I'm sure it's citidel vs empire vs galthmy rn and everyone is targeting just the citadel.

Liz Davis

Hakaea is a gal that's seen fascism and is in the burn it all down by any means era.

The Pompous Peasant

Taylor Moore is a God, no, that's not quite right. Moore is the Greatest of Spirits. I appreciate soundscape so much more, he's amazing and I love him!

Khayroh

i need all of you to know that you are creating the greatest story currently being told in all of the world

Kole Tomić

Aabria playing Suvi's pathetic attempt at manipulation and guilt tripping, with hopes of defending herself against the cruel reality of her not having a home... Very human and universal, thanks Aabria, I hate it to bits.

mumbo

They both got yelled at by Ursulon lol

Stefanucci Mozzarella

Taylor all those years in the albums and music sheets paid off, man. Thank you for doing what you do. 😉👌

Nomade Moderne

I was listening while doing stuff in the kitchen. When that "strap in" hit I had to stop because I knew we were in for a ride and I was likely going to hurt myself if I kept trying to multitask. Wasn't wrong.

Taylor Moore

Ordering one plain cheese pizza for people that don’t really like toppings.

DomPie

You’re ahead of the game. I have actually cut my finger open trying to slice a tomato while listening.

TheloniousPunkyBrewster

My next question is, how many times do you think Mirara (clearly the flashiest of the bunch) proposed a Ginyu Force style entry-dance-pose and had their motion voted down? (And by all the Gods in all the heavens and hells, please somebody sketch that into reality...) Less a question seeking an answer, more something I simply needed to seed into the zeitgeist

Taylor Moore

Not sure what exact sound you mean. The March of the Witches of the Coven of Elders doesn’t have any non symphonic or choral instruments built into it. Gramore has a signature sound that’s a hunting horn, and Hakaea is sometimes accompanied by a Bazantar which has resonating strings like a sitar. Could be one of those. The sound from the ghost of Christmas yet to come from the George Scott Christmas carol (wow that’s a deep pull) is iirc, meant to sound like the metal screech of the cemetery gates. We use a lot of bending and bowed metal sounds like that to represent the citadel, and especially citadel magic. You can hear bowed metal almost anytime Suvi casts a spell for example.

Morgana Evenstar

It is also possible my mind was free-associating in real time because YOUR MUSIC IS LITERAL FUCKING MAGIC THAT PENENTRATRS OUR VERY SOULS!

Julianna Richie

OK, but I'm actually so relieved because I did not want want this dynamic.

Genna

** I'm pretty sure Tefmet is they/them pronouns 👍🏼👍🏼

RiversOblivion

1hr 5m holy wowza Aabria 👏 Suvi is such a good character

OrangeHills

"Buckle Up" masterful, utterly inspiring story craft. The pains are palpable and world keeps marching forward because that is what it does. Having no space for our three protagonists to come to terms with these machinations that are so much bigger than them.....just wow

Destiny

HAKEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Pali-La

I think I’ve figured out the secret of this podcast: we never left the Children’s Adventure. The characters that y’all play so masterfully are crying out for formative experience and I feel like I can hear it clearer than ever now. Erika has absolutely mastered running That Kid who absorbs and reiterates the vibe of the room without actually contributing to it, as opposed to Aabria’s slamdunk portrayal of That Kid who gets mad about any vibe that isn’t completely in line with their own, as opposed to Lou’s bombass portrayal of That Kid who wrestles with the vibe constantly, never fully at peace with it. They are all, in one way or another, That Kid. You cannot really hate That Kid for failing to stand up for what’s right when they’ve forgotten what the ground beneath them really feels like. Y’all do an amazing job with this. You could end it right now and I would still feel like you had provided one of the most painfully, upsettingly real depictions of yet-to-be-matured adults I have ever seen.

Nina

True, we'll have to wait for the fireside to know

Mika Zuki

I think suvi's issue with ame is not that she would vote yes or no but that ame deep down doesn't respect suvi's position. She wants to know her friends would fight for her and what she cares about the same way she does for them. Instead ame and ursulon care more about their own problems then hers. She is worried there wouldn't be a quest to save the citidel just a well I tried. I'm sure suvi would feel betrayed by ursulon saying he hates the people suvi works with without even considering how nice steel, the shield makers and the profecy guy were to him.

Mika Zuki

I wish I understood why Hakea would side with the king of night when he just literally tried to undercut her and why grimore would side with the spirit ordered the attack on hynerule.

Mika Zuki

Even more obvious there is still galthmi and the empire themselves. Someone here wants the citidel out of the way and the pilgrim under stars is obviously the tool being used to do so. The citidel obviously has the empire corrupting it but they might be the only thing in the way of something worse.

Adarsh Nednur

In some ways, maybe none of us ever leave the Children's Adventure 🥲

Stefanucci Mozzarella

Beautiful, Sahidian, you’re helping me recognize that the That Child, the Inner Child, is also the Emotional Home. I’m also noticing just how valuable it is to establish this for any character creation, whether it is DM my own campaign, or writing or acting any story. I will relisten to the children adventures bc of this. I definitely want to celebrate all the actors, GM and Sound Orchestrator for letting us, learn, play, feel, think, judge, guess and imagine how this story puzzle all comes together and then just talk about it. I do gotta say, my favorite is just being with the characters. 🧙🧙‍♀️🐻 🤓🤗🫠

BlueShift

I know this probably isn't the place but I just got caught up and now I WANT MOREEEEE!!!! what is the release schedule? God if this is easy info to find and I'm just blind I will have a meltdown Suvi style.

Lauren

INCREDIBLE performances all around this ep holy shit

MO

My jaw is on the floor. THIS WAS SO GOOD AND I CANNOT CONTAIN MYSELF Masterfully done, all around. Amazing. I cannot gush enough about the art that this episode is

The Wizard Stream

Every two weeks! Welcome to the hell that is waiting. We all are here together by the fireside.

Kenocharo

Thank you WBN team, I wanted to be a blubbering mess before walking into work. And be late, cause I stupidly thought I could stop listening half-way through. Every time I think "this one will be safe, it was happy last episode!"... Also, this is my favorite story, you are all brilliant, and I'm so thankful you choose to produce this with everything else you all have going on. Thank you for continuing this absolute work of art.

Josh H

“Strap in”.

Josh H

I just don’t get how anyone can be anything but TeamSuvi at this point. After all the work to get her in the right place by all 3, Ame lies (badly) about something stupid. Immediately subverting the win for NOTHING. She doesn’t say anything to speak about how it was the 3 of them including Suvi who took down the Derrick and the support they got from Wizard Steel. And she doesn’t question what is basically hearsay nor demand that her retinue member nor any other member of the Citadel be allowed to speak to the accusations leveled here with ZERO actual evidence. And then, AND THEN she started yelling at an emotionally fragile Suvi and completely fails to disclose her own ineptitude or incompetence in the prior scene with the Antivolist. She completely fails and the take sit out on Suvi. I’m not sure why Suvi stayed at all. #TeamSuvi can’t wait to see why Suvi would stay with Ame for any reason afterwards.

The Wizard Savvy

Does anyone know a name for the style of music that plays at the end of the episode when the witches vote? I know it’s not technically a waltz and I’m trying to find more music like it. The rhythm is so interesting to me, shoutout to Taylor and everyone else cause this episode was absolutely fantastic

Josh H

Yeah 💯💯💯 for sure in the hammer/nail thing. But Ame also hasn’t been much help in finding a different tool. In other words she’s done them no favors. Ame hasn’t been half the ally to her that Suvi and Steel have been to her. And I don’t think I believe the Witches hype about themselves and the man in black’s inevitability. I think they’re as arrogant as they accuse the Citadel of being.

Ecceptable

For me, it's weird seeing their emotional reactions to different types of people get hurt. I understand having a genuine fear of The Citadel because a large institution behaves in ways that are beyond an individual to change and can behave malevolently even when individual members like Steel (who could still be hiding something big, I don't know) and Sly and Suvi are very good to Ame and Ursalon. But imagine a wizard tore apart an Honored Friend, killed them, drank their blood, then walked off like it was nothing? Imagine Hakea moved wrong and the wizard Straw tore her to pieces because it was her "nature"? Would Ame and Ursalon just make dinner table conversation about it and move on? They act like wizards of Citadel are ants. Squashing them on purpose is bad, but who really cares?

Bria A.

I am so deeply stressed out. I think this right here is the defining point of Suvi choosing who she wants to be — because the love is there and it’s so profound and enduring, but I don’t see them coming back from this if Ame abides by Conclave majority and doesn’t go full rebel and Suvi is still allied with the Citadel (for very understandable reason on Suvi’s part, even if we as the audience know she’s part of the hubris and propaganda machine!) Because there’s no “we’ll rescue your family but the rest have to go” and pushing that through *Ame’s* justification machine — they’re all Suvi’s family. That’s her home. …This is simply too much for level three, Brennan. 😭

Genna

I'm gonna correct myself here based on the lastest fireside for EP.33! I heard Erika use "he" and Brennan use "she", so I'm thinking Tefmet might be an all pronouns pal :)

The Wizard Sexy

This is essential backstory for everyone defending Suvi to remember.

worldsbeyondnumber

It’s a march in 4/4 but I wanted it to have a waltz feel. Glad it worked! Go listen to some Shostakovich and Prokofiev’s waltz suite if you want some similar vibes.

natasha

I don't like how my trust in Steel is being tested... I've been so dismissive of anyone who has questioned her moral standing 😭

bails 🌀 witch of the what the fuck

i agree with this too!! i really like Tefmet (the whole concept of Antivolists is so intriguing to me — what are they UP to?? why was Suvi surprised that they still exist?? so wild) but yes, trying to incite war clearly indicates a heavy bias. though i suppose we won’t REALLY know how concrete their evidence was since they burned half of it 😫 i just feel like getting on Tefmet’s good side would allow them to get as much information as possible to be able to draw better conclusions. really as much as they can learn about everyone’s perspective/sneaky plans will be their best shot at stopping the war, i think 🤓

Stephanie Tietze

This episode is a lot to process. I did not need that blow so soon after their victory. You could have at least let Suvi get some sleep first... I did not need that much emotional whiplash at work today. Fantastic storytelling all of you but ouch. Those fights were rough to hear.

LSky670

The fucking echo on "RAN!!!". 😬

William Krise

Holy shit the organ on the geass reveal

William Krise

That citadel indoctrination runs DEEP

aspiring_bog_witch

the music was GORGEOUS this episode. the "witches going to war" suite at the end of the episode was perfection!!!!

aspiring_bog_witch

It was so hauntingly beautiful! It encapsulates the idea of witches readying for war so perfectly. I can't get over it, I keep listening to it.

Karo Zhu

im a staunch suvi apologist here like aabria plays such a beautiful moment where she breaks down and she brings up good points! theres a part of me that thinks the audience is more likely to side w the spirits bc of the breadth of literature about the fae/natural world as an underdog (which is part of this too) and suvi's reasoning from her perspective is incredibly sound (and even if she is being unreasonable, i think its incredibly consistent w suvi's character to "owe" a person/institution and that they have to repay that debt or else suffer consequences and it pains my heart to see it

Karo Zhu

also it BROKE MY HEART to hear suvi say "just because you don't have a family" to ame like oh man... ow my heart

Alec

Next episode update when???

Josh H

I think that the Coven of Elders are just as arrogant as they accuse the citadel of being. Next, I agree with you. I don’t know how they come back from this. Ame seems to willingly forget all the aid and help she gets from Suvi and the other wizards of the Citadel. And clearly operates with her own prejudice there. If the wizards treated her the way the Coven has been treating Suvi, she’d have reason—but the Citdel has been nothing but an ally to Ame and she didn’t defend that one iota when the antivolist level his evidence-less accusations. I for one can wait to see the witches and the MiB absolutely break themselves on the walls of the citadel.

Josh H

That really interesting. I have always trusted her too! Why do you mistrust her?

Josh H

I’m with you. Suvi has nothing to apologize for at all here. Her reasoning is sound and her friendship to both Ame and Ursalon has been proven through actions over and over again. The same CANNOT be said about Ame or Ursulon. They have failed to speak to her part in stopping Giold Mage Morrow and freely accept to a of aid and succor from The Citadel and then turned around and condemned wizards as a whole. They’re mediocre at best. Ame would have been screwed without Suvi and then, on a stupid and pointless lie that damaged her socially and magically with the other witches she threw that victory away and then came back to the keep and took out her failure on Suvi.

Anonymous Developer

LOL- Was the long-kept mug a tiny echo of the forbidden respect Mirara once had for Wren? Or straight up a trophy where she feels like she got one over her? Because it's WAY funnier if it was trophy

Erin Michelotti

Ugh Ame is such a witch checking in on Eursalon after the presentation (which I love and was absolutely the emotionaly intelligent move). I (who always play a wizard class) want to know HOW Tefmet knows that the Citadel is aware of everything.

natasha

I dont totally mistrust her yet, I'm just starting to get nervous about her character mostly due to the culture of the citadel

Melody Snow

On a 2nd time through relisten– I wonder exactly what would happen if Suvi was with Ame in her conversation with Mirara

RottingLizard

The sob while saying “I don’t know the right thing to do. If I know I’ll do it.” Is SO gut wrenching and relatable. 💔❤️‍🩹

The Wizard Subjudice

The final "Witch's Parade" when Hakea votes "Yes," just... makes it so much more perfect. Thank you for your incredible work Taylor & Jared.

Gregory James Glaister

I love Ame, but the frequency that she blatantly lies to creatures that cast 9th level spells is CRAAZYYYY 😂🤣

MiddlestSis

I am fully just here to say I have NEVER related to anything more than "I can't even have a mental breakdown".

Margarida Baptista

On a relisten, that line is just as hard as the first time, but the line that absolutely shines even more in a way that I hadn't even realized is the one right before - "The Woodland Green votes yes". The Woodland Green. The green that the wizards destroyed to make the desert that tower stands on. It's coming back with a vengeance 💀