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Expanding on our Project 1933 series, for this episode we talked to historian Sam Huneke about the fate of queer women in Nazi Germany, 1933 and onward. This is a surprisingly contested history, because there was, for a long time, an assumption that women were not really persecuted for being queer in Nazi Germany. While the treatment of female homosexuality (and transgender people) in the Nazi state indeed diverged from that of gay men, this episode shows that this assumption has a lot to do with what you think of as persecution. Sam's book, I Will Not Abandon You: Queer Women in Nazi Germany will be out in April and can be preordered here.

Comments

Lu

I'm so excited to listen to this one. Also, I have a book to recommend for Adrian and Moira: Martina Bitunjac: Verwicklung. Beteiligung. Unrecht. Frauen und die Ustaša It's a book about women in the croatian nazi movement. It's really good, I think something that might interest you. Gives some historical background on the croatian nazi puppet state and goes into the profiles of women in the nazi movement and their roles. (A lot of them did not end up in trials after the war) Also, the author gives a tl;dr of Ante Pavelic's very bad spy novel he wrote in italian prison. It's awful and hilarious. (I also read the said novel because i'm a freak, that man could not write a normal sentence) I'm not sure you can find it in english but it's available in german for sure!

Z F

40:14 "You go, girl! (to jail)" 😂

Murphy

My grandmother (Scottish) was a nurse in WWII. She talked about "all the men were dead". She ended up marrying a man 35 years older. Such and interesting idea that post-war may create some social "cover" for some Queer women. [Knowing war is really bad all around]

Ben Schwabe

Absolute banger episode.

kathleen

I'm looking forward to this episode. Thank you for this! A while back Jonathan Van Ness of Queer Eye Fame had Dr. Jake Newsome on to discuss this topic in a more general way. Apparently Newsome is involved in projects around memorializing queer experiences during this period. The links in the show notes take you to his work around that. I'm interested to hear Dr. H on memorials. Newsome talks about finding literature on queer history while in college in a moving way, which makes his interest in memory and culture make a lot of sense. JVN's Getting Curious episodes were them asking about stuff they never learned about when they were in college/after they dropped out and sometimes I feel like listening to them is like being in my head when I forget my adderall meds. So... what I'm saying is, it's a distinct listening experience (complimentary- I find them very soothing in their fulsome chaos). https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/how-did-queer-people-experience-nazi-germany-with-dr-w/id1068563276?i=1000579433688

kathleen

This sounds really interesting!

A Felt

This was such a fascinating episode, I learned so much from it.

kathleen

The t-shirt slogans don't stop on this podcast.

OuijaFBabysMama

IT IS PRONOUNCED DUAL LIMINALI-TITTY, ADRIAN!

Anna

Oh excellent, I love the historical episodes!

Vagabondella

Incredible episode, and at risk of doxxing myself entirely, a note on Holocaust reparations. Adrian mentions that some communities didn't receive reparations for decades, if ever. I worked on a Holocaust reparations project in the early 2000s related to the Roma/Sinti, and it was just beset by challenges. How to prove someone was in the 'impacted class' in a community without birth certificates? How to distribute proceeds? There was also a tremendous amount of racism baked into the crust of the endeavor, including that the Roma were not eligible for cash, only monthly delivery of foodstuffs, because the international organization overseeing the reparations didn't believe you could trust Roma with cash. At any rate, not relevant to the episode necessarily, but just underlining Adrian's comment.

Karen Cox

I have been trying to read ‘Body By Weimar’ since 2020 and this inspires me to finish that book and also buy and read this one

OhLordyAmina

This episode was great and I’ll have to give it another proper interrupted listen as I had also bought the idea that Queer women did not face persecution in the same way as Queer men did. If some of you remember the infamous James Somerton an episode he did that was plagiarized and poorly researched spread this information as well. Adrian. I would really, really appreciate if there would be an episode in the future on the Black-German experience during Nazi Germany and on miscegenation in Germany at that time. I find it a bit disturbing on how I often see the term “ degenerate” used in Black spaces to talk down to what boils down to “ratchet” culture. When that was a term used to describe Jazz and other forms of music and art created by Black performers.

OhLordyAmina

Excuse the typos please. I’m tying on my phone and the damn thing won’t let me edit.

Lyss

I really enjoy Sam’s episodes, would love to hear him again!

lentil_butch

Speaking of queer women, can we pleeaaasseee get a Kristi Noem addendum episode re her cross dressing husband?

Grace Culhane

Desperate to hear you guys talk about belle burdens memoir strangers. Read it in one day and can't get it out of my head. I feel like belle herself still doesn't seem to understand that what she went through was financial abuse

Mary

the uncertainty that queer women dealt with during the Nazi era really reminds me of the current status of immigration in the US. people in the immigration process have no idea of if showing up to their proceedings is going to move them forward or result in being detained for months or deported. but they have to show up anyway or be in trouble, much like I presume it would have been like to be summoned by the gestapo. seems terrifying and very psychologically unmooring