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For this episode, Moira takes Adrian on a trip into the long, many-colored history of the iconic Dolly Parton (1946-2026), from the Tennessee mountains where life was as peaceful as a baby's sigh, via Nashville to a corner office where you tumble out of bed and stumble to the kitchen, and naturally pour yourself a cup of ambition. Throughout her life, Dolly modeled a very particular style of femininity, one that managed to be both pastiche, an expression of American mores circa 1970, and very much her own. Moira and Adrian talk about what to make of this style of campy, self-mocking, but also very assertive womanhood -- and what contemporaries made of it across the six decades of Dolly's presence in American life.

Comments

Sara Goehner

Oh goodness. Saying that 9 to 5 isn’t a good movie is… wow… just wow. Fighting words 😂 I respectfully disagree. Such a weird and wild fever dream of a movie. Fonda and Tomlin and Parton together were magic. Edit to add: I hope you know I’m joking around. I just love that movie haha.

Sophia

Not happy over here. 9 to 5 is an absolute delight

Charley

👍 Totally love Moira’s incisive gender studies analysis (as usual) 💜 Totally disagree that 9 to 5 is bad (it’s not, it’s fab) or that Whitney’s IWALY is better (it’s not - thank you Adrian) 😅

rainbowreads666

we did a Dolly Parton day event at work last Friday and the Hannah Montana guest appearances came up several times when I talked to other people my age. I distinctly remember Dolly using her long pinkie finger nail to unlock a door.

A Felt

What an excellent episode! I love it when y’all dive into ambiguity and leave me pondering thorny questions. Before listening to this episode, I wondered how Parton managed to achieve near universal popularity as a woman in the public eye for so long- most female celebrities seem to get a couple years if they are lucky before the public turns on them. I appreciate Moira for so cogently explaining how Parton her crafted persona through constant, effortful performance and rigorous neutrality (I’m sure her whiteness and heterosexual marriage also helped). I think Dolly might be the closest any woman has come to “winning” at her expected gender. It all sounds exhausting and morally compromising to me but I’m grateful for all the good she did spread with her wealth and influence.

L E

As a southerner from and currently living in East Tennessee, sometimes I listen to this podcast and it really hits me how coastal academics view us. Love the pod but some of the tone when talking about the culture in the southeast is condescending. I take ibwtr in good faith and I know yall don’t have ill intentions, but I think having a southern academic could have really helped here.

Rosie

Ahh! The slander! Dolly's singing technique is seriously impressive. Ornamentation, vocal breaks, glissandos, vibrato, covered vocals - these are all really hard to do, even if they are quite understated in their effect. Yodels! To have an ounce of that vocal control, ugh! Loved the episode, gonna send it to my mum.

Rosie

Laughed out loud at the tonal whiplash. Highly nuanced gender studies exposition -> Dolly vocals mid actually Amazing

audioboy

Can't ignore Whitney's, but MAN is the original amazing. I don't know if I could say one is better.

In Bed With the Right

I knew that someone would appreciate that pull, but was like "this is truly only for people who are a very specific age with a very specific experience of the 1990s... 😂

Gretchen Sprinkle

Dolly liked Whitney's version better. She said that it was Whitney's song

Matthew Tokarsky

Glad I’m that specific age and experience hahaha. “Ha, only one person in a million would find that funny”

Trent Taylor

This is Hannah Montana Boyfandom erasure!

Dawn Cramer

I’m this old: I remember watching Dolly on the Porter Wagoner show.

Ben Schwabe

Dolly can't be right about everything. Whitney Houston gilded the lily on that song.

Sheryl D

I don’t know that I would say she never took a stand. I think it is just different than we are used to - at least in parts of the culture that are decidedly political. Park policy aside, she was vocally accepting of lgbt ppl AND voiced that. She expressed that they should be able to live and love who they love. She funded the aids quilt documentary. But she didn’t want to be the story herself. I think that was part of the genius of her persona. She didn’t allow it to be impacted by the political story, even though her early songs were dark and incredibly empathetic. And when she was called out for using Dixie in a name of a theme park show she listened and just changed it without it being a big deal. When asked she just said she learned how it impacted ppl so she changed it - and that was a stand. I think that is the second way it looked different. I think she saw politics as adversarial in a way that she was uncomfortable with. She didn’t want to see anyone as the other or the enemy. She said in an interview after she was one stage while Jane and lily called out trump, that she was uncomfortable but not angry with her costars. But when pressed she said she would have said that she prays for the president - which as I understand it - in southern can certainly be translated as not so supportive. She reminds me of my mom and grandma. They hated politics but also never had anything bad to say about other ppl. They didn’t like ppl hurting other ppl and while you’d never see them at a protest I never worried where they stood on loving others.

Betti Tristan

I grew up on Hannah Montana, and I am indeed approaching 30 in the current day.

Sophia

Will chime in here and say Linda Ronstadt’s IWALY is actually the best. Sorry not sorry. It’s GORGEOUS

kathleen

One thing that strikes me about descriptions of Parton's looks is that "big" is one of the first terms people deploy. Big hair, big beasts, big personality. But oh my gosh she was actually teeny tiny in stature. I'm pretty average in height for an American woman and without a towering wig, she wouldn't clear my chin. It's a testament to her ability to craft an image that she's big-forward in our minds. I think a refusal to situate her personal ethics in politics allowed Parton to keep a line of communication open about issues a big part of her audience would otherwise never have to engage with. A conservative fan can't call Dolly Parton woke, but they can't dismiss that she wrote the theme song to Trans America, either. I think that's less refusal to take a stand and more a refraining of what it means to be accepting and inclusive. It's a flawed approach, as Moira shows. But there's no perfect way to try and reach everyone who wants to engage. She sure as hell did a better job than Ed Sheeran. The tacit willingness of audiences to let her militant apoliticalness go is pretty necessary in that dynamic, I think. That's pretty interesting.

kathleen

Yeah, I'm not here for the claim that 9 to 5 isn't a good movie. It's fantastic. The smarmy boss is Dabny Colman, a fact I know because friend of the show Sarah Marshall covered 9 to 5 in an early episode of the You Are Good podcast. It's a fun episode!

Al_Ma

I have never felt so seen. 🥹

beebah in boston

Just a few minutes into this, but I was a little thrown by the idea that Dolly is an 89s icon. I'm a Gen Xer born in the late 69s, and Dolly became a BFD in the 1970s. The 89s were a second act, but it was built in her 1970s persona and career. If Dolly had launched her Nashville glam, big hair, buxom, "lookin' cheap" style in the 1980s it would have crashed, at a time when skinny, sleek, sometimes preppy, sometimes punk women were the icons.

beebah in boston

I meant to include that she could not have sold that persona anytime except during the sexual revolution. Women in country music-- Patsy Cline, the Carters, Loretta Lynn, etc-- did not flaunt their sexiness even when they had it. Christianity and social conservatism in country wouldn't allow it. Emmylou Harris, Linda Ronstadt and Dolly Parton really broke through that

Ben Schwabe

As a straight white man I have to say the death of Bob Dylan will not trouble me one bit.

Bruce

Loved the episode, really a thoughtful and incisive look at someone that has received a lot of (understandably) superficial coverage in the wake of her death. For anyone looking for more great Parton material, I would recommend the podcast Dolly Parton's America (I hope that is allowed!). Not as intellectually deep as IBWTR, but a really moving examination of Dolly and what her career has meant to a number of diverse audiences. And just really well made.

Stella Campbell

Thank you for such a balanced episode (despite the wild take on the absurdist treasure that is 9 to 5). I LOVE Dolly (several people literally checked on me the day she died to make sure I was okay), but i do come to this love with a certain degree of tension toward her apolitical stances. My main way to accept this tension is to hope that it was a concession by Dolly that she could do more good if she were beloved than she could if she had been outspoken. It’s a theory that smacks more of proto-effective altruism than I am usually willing to accept, but I suppose that’s the magic of Dolly.

Faith Flo

“An okay voice.” !? 🤨 (Interesting ep nevertheless)

Kelly Hannigan

I had surgery the morning she died and the first thing I heard as I emerged from anesthesia was a nurse saying that Dolly Parton died

Anne

Of all the things that Dolly is known for, there are a few albums from the late 90s that are not pop, but rather pure bluegrass and a few traditional Appalachian songs that are WONDERFUL. I can’t recommend “The Grass is Blue” more highly. Such a consummate musician, amongst all the other things that she was.

Savanna

The Pigeon Forge/Gatlinburg area is many things, but it is far from “remote even today.” Twelve million people a year visit GSMNP. There is a hospital minutes from the Titanic replica.

Liz

Thank you so much for putting words to this. I had to turn the episode off at the comment that Dollywood is “Disneyland where the theme is poverty.”

pixlaw

Fuckin' millenials!. OK, OK, that was harsh. But not to know what a Nudie suit is/was is a crime against American country and country -influenced music. The Flying Burrito Brother's classic first album Gilded Palace of Sin has a cover photograph of the band members all wearing Nudie suits (embroidered with pills and pot leaves) posing in the desert.

Julia Triche

(42:50) excuse me, what type of cactus? (Saguaro "sah-war-oh")

Rebecca Skirvin

I know time was an issue, but would have loved to hear your takes on Dolly's "Stampede" dinner show (formerly "Dixie Stampede") that has been running in Pigeon Forge and a few other locations. The show is similar to Medieval Times, featuring performers in a pit stage with spectators seated in rows above. Before 2018, the show "story" was a whitewashed version of the Civil War in which brother fought against brother for some vague reason (states' rights might have been mentioned) and the end was a celebration of American unity. Similar to Medieval Times's dinners, the audience was seated in either the "Union" or the "Confederacy" section and were encouraged to cheer for their respective champions. In 2018 the show was retitled to "Dolly Parton's Stampede" and the script changed to remove the Civil War framing.

basil water

The best part of this episode was learning that Adrian is banned from a go cart arena in Pigeon Forge, Tennessee for go carting while inebriated

J in T

Hard agree! There seems to be confusion over what Dollywood represents to Southern people. To me, Dollywood is a nostalgic take on what visiting my grandma felt like as a child. I felt insulted to hear it described as Disneyland where the theme is poverty.

J in T

Wanted to mention that though Dolly was apolitical in a lot of ways, she sent a local Austin Tx drag queen and Dolly impersonator (shout out to Brigette Bandit!!) a signed guitar, after Brigette testified against the proposed drag bans. Brigette is anything but apolitical, and both the timing of the gift and nature of the gift certainly implies Dolly’s approval. Though I do take the point that Dolly never came out and made statements about her political views, her actions do say otherwise.

L E

I live roughly 45 minutes from where she is from! I think it’s hard to grasp what she means to us if you don’t experience growing up and living in the south as a gay person. Still love the pod, and I know they have good intentions! But the south feels like the punching bag of academia. I hear so many people on podcasts I love put on a southern accent when they want to sound like a stupid conservative. It hurts every time because I talk like that too :’(

Dan Wood

I think it was an oversight in talking about her appeal and overlooking the fact that Jolene is something like the most covered recorded song in music history.