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A/N: Hi, hope you all had a fun weekend! I had been a bit of a rough week. This chapter has many things I want in it, but it took a bit long to get there. So, it'll will likely see a few edits at some point. Sorry for the delay. I'm taking tomorrow off, but will do my best to get you the next chapter on Wednesday. I hope the character interactions are still fun!

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Kai swiftly climbed the marble steps. The afternoon sun glittered over the reliefs of the Wing Aurea’s gilded facade. Passing the arched doors, the blooming smells of spring gave way to a mesh of inviting baked goods, loud students and oiled wares from a leather shop. 

Veiled in Shadow, he cut through the crowd for the elevators. Albeit brief, ditching Words of Power gave him some priceless breaks. Lately, his life had been marked by the silvery echo of Raelion’s bells. Lecture. Practice. Lunch. Lecture. Study. Rest. Rinse and repeat. His academic life remained frenetic, occasionally dull and always exhausting. Yet, he couldn’t say he minded the grueling routine.

Guess Jolene had a point. Things worth pursuing are never easy. 

The gaps in his education filled up, his skills steadily grew, and his knowledge of the world expanded. He’d always enjoyed learning and honing himself, but perhaps not to this degree of single-mindedness. When did that change? Did the academy just remind him of his days at Virya’s estate? Or was it meeting Elijah? The urge to chase after his teacher’s shadow, gain the power to help, and be more than a burden? 

Questions drifted in his mind since his talk with Valela. That conversation made him reflect. Well, more than usual. 

Kai would be… among the first to admit he often overthought. Though paradoxically, he also studiously avoided certain topics. When had he gotten so impatient to gain more power? If hard work were enough, the Republic would have more than a paltry few thousand Green individuals among seventy million citizens. 

Advancing through the grades was a slow grind. Lucky breaks could speed the pace, but that just meant climbing two steps at a time instead of one. No trick would let him skip to the top. No amount of obsessive training would substitute for years of steady accumulation. 

As Professor Lysander loved to hammer, rushing without planning would at best get them forever stuck at early Green—if he didn’t burn out before the finish line. Depending on knowledge and resources, the same amount of hard work would lead to vastly different results.  

I’m too impatient. 

Biting his cheek, Kai stepped onto the humming runes of the elevator. “Fourth floor, please.” 

“Yes, mister…” The array operator squinted as if he couldn’t quite see him. Before the man could question the strangeness, more students pulled his attention. The engraved doors glided close, reducing the noise to a soft murmur as the stone platform smoothly ascended. 

Kai grinned. Shadow Magic had gained another level—one closer to Yellow. Nobody outside of class had approached him in the last twenty-one hours, and he aimed to keep the streak. 

Whatever subconscious instinct stoked his urgency to gain power, he was grateful Valela had helped him put things into perspective. He had time. No urgent threat loomed over him. No enemy was coming for him. He’d enrolled in the Republic’s most renowned and safest academy.

Whatever the bunch of cultists was doing, the government would be aware of them too. Not every crisis concerned him. Not right now. If nothing else, Professor Ermellie’s monologues about Merian excellence had impressed the country's size and history. The Republic had stood through wars, magical plagues and mana catastrophes for almost fifteen centuries. It would not collapse easily. Despite his reservations, the army must have plenty of competent people way smarter than him. 

I just have to prepare, so I’ll be ready next time. 

"Fourth floor.” The attendant smoothly announced.

The lacquered wooden doors opened to a clatter of sounds and smells. Students and off-duty personnel bustled in the atrium. Only the high ceiling and wide windows on both sides tempered the crowded feeling. 

Kai raked a hand through his hair and headed down the branching hallway, scanning the stores for a familiar face. His resolution to be more present for his friends had been going okay. Given that lectures commanded most of his schedule, he was learning how to fit in hangouts, meals and group study. The trick was good planning. Among first years, he was rarely the only one who needed to complete any one activity and assignment. 

Just another skill he needed to work on.

Memo 19: Check in on what your friends are doing and look for matches. (edit. do not ask for a copy of their schedule).

If they didn’t change their mind, they should be at—

“In here, Mat!” 

Turning toward the voice, Kai spotted Flynn poking his head out Vesper’s Amulets and Magical Wares across the hall. Through the display window, Lys perused a spread of enchanted baubles with grave concentration, while Valela stood beside her, watching the hunched shopkeeper with gentle pity. 

“Val didn’t tell me you’d be here too.” Kai wove through the streaming buyers to enter the shop. “What are you buying?”

“Nothing here. Just dropped in to say hi to Val, and got recruited to carry the bags. A professor convinced Rain to assist her with her research for extra credits. So, I thought I’d get some commissions done. You get the best prices during the week.” Flynn lifted an ivory cloth bag and sighed toward the small pyramid of boxes at his feet. “It’s taking longer than I thought."

“…I’m afraid this artisan doesn’t work with alloys of starlight copper, Miss Fairmont. Though we could customize the gemstones and engraving?”

Lys bit her lip, then gave a mournful shake. “A pity. But what about that one?” Her attention snapped toward a half-moon pendant shimmering like diamonds. In her intent inspection, she didn’t notice him walking up. 

Valela did. Her lips eased into a warm smile. “I’m glad you could make it.”  

“Well, I promised I would.” Kai huffed grandly. “I’ve got a reputation to defend.” He also had a list of items to buy; he’d found efficiency was key to maintaining social relations. 

“That you have.” Flynn laughed. “We totally didn’t think you zoned out practicing party cantrips and forgot. Right, Val?” 

Valela folded her arms and threw him a dirty look. “I didn’t even consider that.” Her stiff expression softened. “At most, I thought he might not know where to find us.” 

“Of course you’d never doubt him.” Flynn smiled wider.

“Uhm,” Kai cleared his throat. “I did think you’d be farther in.” Better not mention he’d mapped the most likely route through the shops they needed to visit. “I hope you didn’t wait for me.”

Valela’s expression grew a little strained. “So did I. Lys had a little… trouble making up her mind on the supplies for her courses. But we’re almost done. Right?” Her voice rose slightly.

“Huh… pardon?” Lys jolted up from her examinations and spun around, a pristine smile on her delicate features. “Oh, Mat. Just the man I was hoping to see! Please, come here.” She grabbed his sleeve. “I desperately need a second opinion.” She lifted the half-moon pendant and a pair of teardrop topaz rings to her face. The enchantments beneath their cloaked surface seemed to make them glow. “So? Which one looks better?” 

“I don’t know… What are they for?” 

“That’s not important. A girl needs to be prepared.” Her manicured eyebrow curved to a perfect arc. “Do the topazes make me look old or mature?”

“Uh.” Kai looked at Flynn and Val for help, but the traitors had already retreated three steps. “You look good in both. But don’t their effects matter a lot?”

At least, more than their appearance.

“Matthew, Matthew.” Lys let out a deep sigh. “Your naïveté is charmingly adorable.” She twirled to inspect the three dozen the shopkeeper had taken out. “If my jewelry clashes with my clothes, people will know something is off. Then they’d inevitably wonder what kind of enchantments are worth that price and look closer. Now that wouldn’t make for an effective protection, would it?”

That… makes a strange amount of sense. 

“I see…” It was probably an excuse, but Kai couldn’t well say that. Before he could join Flynn at the far corner of the shop, Lys held up two more amulets, smiling brightly for his opinion. 

And this is what I get for being punctual…

Knowing the fastest way out was to surrender, he tried his best. He’d never delved into this branch of enchanting, but then again, Lys didn’t seem to particularly care about the runes. Amulets could carry all kinds of effects, from spellcasting focuses akin to wands, to varying kinds of defensive wards and single-use fireballs.

Any delusion to swiftly guide Lys toward a choice fell short as the graying shopkeeper produced more baubles from behind the counter without batting an eye. 

“Mhmm, I’m not sure. Hey, Flynn! Val! What do you two think? Four heads work better than two.” Kai smirked at his dear friends.

Come back here. I shall not suffer alone! 

Minutes crawled as Lys narrowed down her choices. “Alright, truly just one more!” She raised a pair of emerald earrings to her face and frowned. “Hmm, no… these probably look better on Val, wouldn’t you say?” She moved the pieces to her friends. “Try imagining them with a satin dress.”

“Uhm.” Kai blinked. “Yes…. I mean, they look great on you.” 

Standing stiffly, Valela averted her gaze, cheeks blushing. “Thank you.” Her eyes lingered on the earrings before fleeing. “We should finish here and hurry. We have more shops to visit.”

“Yes. You’re right.” Kai nodded. “We have lots to do.”

“Always in a rush.” Lys sniffed and looked at the shopkeeper. “Could you set those aside for me, Vesper? I might yet squeeze some sense into their heads.”

“It’d be my pleasure, Miss Fairmont. We’re always grateful for your patronage.”

“Of course.” She lightly giggled, taking out a gold-threaded, pink purse to pay. “That’s because I keep coming back.” 

Kai tried not to gawk at the amount of mesars she set on the counter as Flynn graciously stepped to take another bag. 

I better never let Hobbes find this place. Nope, mind clear. Don’t even think about it.

Leaving the amulet’s displays, they swiftly moved through the next shops on their lists. Months after enrolling, the Wing Aurea still contained endless wares to peruse and explore. With Val occasionally dragging Lys out, they made good time.

Almost done. 

Entering the Moonroot Apothecary, Kai wistfully breathed in the scent of drying herbs. The novice Alchemy course only provided ingredients during classes. If he wanted to hone his skill outside, he needed to buy his own stock. He couldn’t take up Alden on his offer to brew together as well as use his roommate’s supplies. Even if the pale patrician truly didn’t care, his own thick skin had a limit! 

No wonder nearly every student in the Artisan path had a sponsor. 

I should get him something nice. Hmm, what do you give to someone who’s already filthy rich?

Memo 21: Figure out a present to repay Alden.

Memo 22: Ask Rob to practice Space Magic and consider forgiving some of his chore debts (no more than two).

The number of tasks only rose. Kai reluctantly set a hefty pile of mesars on the apothecary’s counter. Perhaps, he did need a skill to schedule his life. “Thank you.” With a tight smile, he stored the bundle of herbs in his ring. 

Valela waited for him in front of a wand display. Her focused brows eased when she saw him. “Did you find everything you need?”

“Yep. And I only had to barter one kidney.” 

Her lips pursed in disapproval. "You shouldn’t joke about Necromancy. That’s a forbidden discipline. People might misunderstand.” 

“My bad. Where to next?”

Closing their last commissions, they regrouped with the others. Who knew socializing would be such an intense endeavor? But, despite the added drain on his time, he was feeling oddly refreshed. 

The piles of boxes, packets and bags in Flynn’s arms now brushed his chin. His tall friend looked as drained as Lys looked lively, his eyes darting to the far elevators for an escape. Upon spotting them, he mouthed help.

The golden-haired girl didn’t seem to notice. Her dainty hand rose to wave at them. “Great, you’re here! Val, you have the best instincts for picking friends. Maybe I should talk with more students from Martial Studies. Oh, time truly flew. Rena said to join us too. Why don’t we get something to eat? It’s my treat.”

Flynn’s grumbling face smoothed into a pleasant smile. “What a brilliant idea! Don’t you think too, Mat?”

“I…” Before answering, Kai checked on his mnemonic chain with his schedule. 

When did it grow so large?

“I can’t today. I agreed I’d grab a bite with someone to discuss elemental magic and compare our spellcasting.” 

Three heads snapped on him. The Wing Aurea’s bustle strangely seemed to become quieter.

Finally, Lys squared him up with a prim smile. “You’ve already made an appointment for dinner?” 

“Yes…” Kai scratched his neck, feeling he should pick his words carefully. “It was the most convenient time.” Talking and eating together was just more efficient. He’d agreed to exchange pointers with Isadora mainly to free himself, but she took it more seriously than he’d expected. There had been no way to slip away without breaking his word. 

Lys’ grin turned sharper. “By chance, is that someone a woman?" 

Uh…

“Yeah, she’s in my same class for Combat Magic and Mixed Combat. I told you how Professor Valdibal made me duel other high rankers during my first class. I beat Isadora, so she insisted we compare our casting and get a rematch.”  

“Isadora Forlow? The seventh ranker in the Trials?” Valela asked with no inflection in her voice, not meeting his eyes. 

Throat dry, Kai simply nodded. He knew that several patrician students had approached him, fishing for favors or attempting to recruit him. But he’d also noticed how all of them belonged to minor Houses. One high result in the Trials didn’t change the fact that he was a commoner with no background. At best, a curiosity or gamble. 

Isadora was a scion from a prominent House and ranked high on her own. She had been bubbly and friendly from their first meeting. Even if she wanted to make a friendly connection, why would she care for more? When discussing the invitation, he made clear he only cared to discuss skills. 

It had all made sense in his head. Yet, looking at Valele’s impassive face, he felt he’d messed something up.

Gripped by a sudden panic, he searched for a way to escape the widening chasm opening beneath his feet. “You can come too. If you want? I mean, I told her I might bring some friends. It shouldn’t take long. We’ll just eat together and do a round of practice. Isadora said she  booked a private field.” 

Valela didn’t reply right away, and her voice sounded flat when she did. “Maybe another time. I have to finish an assignment for tomorrow. Flynn, it was very nice catching up with you. If you’ll excuse me.” Turning with perfect poise, she walked down the hallway.

“Alright then. We’ll catch up tomorrow.” Kai waved awkwardly. He felt the impulse to do something, but he didn’t know what. 

Shit. 

“Really, Mat?” Lys pursed her lips, a disapproving line creasing her doll-like face. Then, with a sniff, she ran after Val. “Wait for me!” 

“Hey, wait! What do I do with these?” Flynn balanced the packages, his shout going unanswered. 

They remained in silence.

“Guess I’ll go too,” Kai said, though his body remained still, his mind still tangled in knots. 

Flynn gave him a deadpan look. “You think?” 

“I really didn’t mean anything by it. With Isadora, I mean.”

“I know. She probably knows it too. But still… You just told her that you have a date with a very powerful woman from a very important house. Regardless of intentions, that’s how it sounds. How do you think she feels?”

Uhm… spelled out like that? I’m an idiot.

Kai pinched his face. It was not that he didn't understand. Reincarnation put him in an awkward spot with dating. So, rather than agonizing over it, he’d resolved that nothing could happen for a few years. He’d been avoiding every thought of romance for so long now that it felt almost weird to think others weren’t like him. 

I should probably talk with her… 

But what could he say? What did he want to clear up? What did he want? He enjoyed her friendship, spending time with her, watching her smile… 

Hmm, did he want more? 

Comments

YeetimusMaximus

I read the chapter title in the voice of g-man

Arrogant Savant

Frankly in many ways Kai can't afford to think about romance considering his status as a "criminal who faked his death" and the pressure that comes with being the main key for getting into the hidden realm sanctuary. Also his PTSD being "tempered" by said sanctuary.

Dizzy

Oh thank god. It was so painful, but he's finally growing up.

Jordan A

I’m excited to see where this goes!

David

Kai being clueless with valela was all fun and games for everyone else until that moment where he should have known mentioning dinner with someone else was off limits. No turning back now, one way or another the dynamics in the group have changed.

Trevayne

Thanks for the chapter. Now that Kai has freed up some time in his schedule he might want to consider getting a little less socially clueless.

Johan

Tftc

piranha

Heartbreaker 😈

GloinJr

Thank God he isn't gonna date minors 🙏 Lord have mercy hallelujah when I raised my concerns about this I had people talking to me about how Valela was mature for her age and how it's actually ok for Mat to date minors cus he didn't have much of a childhood or whatever. Thank god we're dodging the diddy tensei route Drewells you're the goat

Corwin

Curious if we will get to see his enchanting class soon. The practice there might be a good way to build up some funds while working on his alchemy later.

Reborn

Not speaking for or against anything, but when he died wasn’t he 17? He hasn’t even reached that age in his new life, so his own maturity still hasn’t really grown.

Mark

So far the hints at romantic tension and Kai's obliviousness towards it where mostly short comic relief elements in the story, and honestly, I would have preferred them to stay that way. But regardless of preference for this story element, the 180 from presenting Kai as oblivious to him suddenly thinking clearly about Valela's attraction to him here is a bit jarring and comes out of nowhere. The paragraph toward the end of the chapter ("He’d been avoiding every thought...") does a good job of retconning his previous obliviousness, but the switch still feels inorganic to me.

Federico

Man, I guess Hallowed Intuition does not warn against social faux pas :D

Doug Wills

Heh? These aren't remotely the same. Kai has never been an adult. Val is older right now than Kai has ever been. And living two lives as a child doesn't make you an adult. MT was literally a 30+ year old pervert purposefully grooming children. Kai both has never even attempted to groom anyone, wouldn't know how, and has never been a real adult himself.

Brett

Maybe because he does not recognize that he’s actually going to die from that. Instinctively Matt knows a knife in the back is dangerous, but playing with a woman’s affection… that’s like defusing a bomb …

Draeysine

I personally, disagree. This is hardly him thinking clearly. He noticed something wrong with the vibe, and still didn't fully comprehend what was wrong until Flynn spelled it out plainly to him. I think this is the most organic interaction yet, at least in regard to Kai's refusal to think about the romantic tension between him and Val.

Draeysine

Kai never even had relationships back on earth. His maturity has also never approached past where he is right now. Val is very much an equal in terms of relationships. His life of being a sickly child offers no additional power in this dynamic.

Balerion1891

Over the first half of the chapter is Kai telling the leveling demon to shut up. From a young age he has been driven for more power and has placed his personal stuff including his own family somewhat aside for growth. Why would he handle talking to a pretty girl that is cleary interested in him correctly? Or handle the oblivious crush right? He has put in blinders for most of his life and has chosen to take them off in the last few days. The end of the chp is a little rough and I can totally see Drew polishing it up but it is accurate I think.

Cinea Spring

If Mat wants to date, let him. I would even argue that everyone is emotionally and socially more mature than him because in this world such things are also strongly governed by skills. And not having social skills makes Mat an outlier and not the rule.

Andrew Goebel

"Hmm, did he want more? " this line feels too on the nose for me. It's like solving the puzzle too quickly? Something like, "why was this making him so upset?" or "I'd rather be going to dinner with her" makes more sense with the cluelessness.

noel meehan

"Diddy tensei" I'm dying

Some Guy

Thanks for the chapter

GloinJr

Reborn, this comment is really confusing, because do you think maturity can only grow when an arbitrary benchmark of your birthday is hit? It's a consequence of time spent alive, he didn't lose maturity when he reincarnated as a baby, why do you think he experienced no personal growth during the 16 ish years he's been in this new world? And while maturity can express itself in the accumulation of experiences like having a girlfriend, graduating, working a job, etc, would you let a 33 yr old person irl who has never had a job, graduated, or had a romantic relationship date a minor? Because your answer to that should be the same as your answer to whether or not Mat should be able to date minors, if you have different answers that is cognitive dissonance

GloinJr

Doug, that second paragraph is entirely useless because I literally said "thank he ISNT gonna date minors" so idk why you had to reiterate how he isn't dating minors. Secondly, this "he wasn't an adult tho in his first life" thing is almost identical to what people say about MT because the MC was a neet. At the end of the day, Mat did have a somewhat limited first life, but he still reincarnated with ALL the memories of his first life. Right off the bat he is a 17 yr old in the body of an infant. He continues to gather life experiences, grow, and mature. By the time he is 10 he has a life outlook that no one his age could possibly share because he has lived nearly 3 times longer than them. The age 18 isnt some magical benchmark where your 3rd eye opens and a cosmic well of maturity flows into you, it is the point where we say "you have lived 6575 days, and have likely accumulated enough life experiences to make informed decisions regarding your body and finances". There's no addendum in the law that says that you actually aren't an adult if you haven't had x y and z life experiences. Youve lived 6575 days, you've accumulated foundation of life experiences that allow you to determine important decisions with sufficient clarity

GloinJr

Draesyne, would you let a 30 yr old person irl date a minor if they said they had never been in a relationship? All NEETs and incels should just be able to date whoever they want?

Doug Wills

This question makes literally no sense. And requires 0 cognitive dissonance. A 33 year old who has never had a job, graduated, or had a romantic relationship is simply not equivalent to Kai. Kai has spent 0 time as an adult in his two lives. He's not even close to the equivalent of a 33 year old. Life experience is a MASSIVE part of being an adult. And Kai has none of it. You can't have someone live from birth to 17, and then only live from birth to 15, and compare them to someone that lived from birth to 32. The two things just aren't even close to the same.

GloinJr

Cinea, I'm sorry but just no. I'm not giving energy to almost verbatim said "she's mature for her age though". Do you not understand what you are typing like hello?????

George

he's been solving this puzzle for a hundred chapters

GloinJr

BLead, cool so you think irl it would be cool to let a 33 year old Neet whose never had a job or romantic relationship date a minor. That what you stand for? Also regarding the whole "brain development is real" thing, OBVIOUSLY there is some idea magic going on here because bro spawned frame 1 with the same cognitive abilities he had as a 17 year old when inhabiting the body of an infant. So obviously there was some hand wavy witch craft going on there

GloinJr

Sell, I think he obviously acts with more maturity than most of his friends or people around "Mat's" age of 16, partially cus I don't think the whole romantically oblivious thing is a sign of somehow lacking maturity or whatever that's just kinda a personality trait. But otherwise he acts as I imagine someone much older than 16 would act. He's generally emotionally intelligent, has great decision making, etc. I think the whole "omg he's so oblivious" thing kinda infantalizes an otherwise mature character who generally acts within the expected framework of his 33 ish years of age, besides maybe being a little goofy with friends. But as far as the important stuff goes, yeah he's making decisions like an adult and has been since he was like 2, he's just got a goofy personality

GloinJr

Right but by your logic, Doug, a 33 year old who has lived at his parent's house his whole life, has never had a job, dropped out of school, no relationships, etc, that would be a person that never had a real adulthood right? They never did any of the adult things, they just kept doing kid stuff for 33 years. Your whole argument that "erm well he never turned 18 so he hasn't actually had any time spent as an adult, so by my calculations hes basically still a kid" is ridiculous, a NEET literally fulfills all these criteria of what you consider to be lacking adult experiences, but somehow you don't equate those. It's kinda the magical spell some isekai media is able to cast on some people where they can just completely separate their normal ability to logic and reason, cus "erm he never turned 18 tho so he's basically still a kid 16 years later"

GloinJr

Like Doug just think about your own life for a second, think of significant moments on your life where you "matured". Sure some of it might be connected to a job or a relationship or something, but for me a lot of my experience becoming a more emotionally mature and well adjusted person just came down to having the right conversation or argument at the right time, and having the experience of previous conversations or arguments to better inform or contextualize what I'm going through. I can guarantee you if you time travelled back 20 years and put my adult consciousness into my infant self, 20 years later on february 16 2026 I would be a far different person than I currently am

GloinJr

Sure, Seli, but the way I've come to understand maturity and the ways in which I've "matured", to me the biggest function of that equation is time. As a child every couple of months I would come up with some new life philosophy, only to figure out a few months later that 95% of that life philosophy was wrong. I would cringe at my old self, keep the 5% of stuff that was actually good, and craft some new life philosophy that was completely wrong in a different way. As time passed and I grew older I had a greater well of experiences to pull from and simply, a greater amount of time to think about these "life philosophies". They would last longer, I would cringe less at them when I ended up realizing they were flawed, and eventually they stop being like 90% bad and wrong but only like 30% wrong. My point is, the objective passing of time allows one more time to reflect on their own existence, to contextualize it, to learn from it, and to abstract complex ideas from it. If my current consciousness were to be transported back through time and put in to my infant self, by the time I once again return to my current age I can guarantee with almost 100% certainty that I would be a very different person and I would have a much more mature life outlook than the one I currently have. It wouldn't matter that I never aged past 20, I have still subjectively lived 40 years of life and have undergone the burden of conceptualizing my own existence for those 40 years.

GloinJr

Like for me, I had to get into that argument with my dad at 15 to come to a certain realization, so that when I was 17 and faced this other life experience I already had the mental framework to interpret that in a more complete way, allowing me to come to a more complete understanding of that experience. The accumulation of context and understanding doesn't happen on calendar dates it comes as a consequence of living additional days, not on reaching a specific date.

Peter Smith

Tge pronlem though is that he isn't clueless. He's distracted and unskilled in complex social interactions. It has been noted that he doesn't have any [Social Skills] as well which leaves him to carch his fumbling after he makes his mistakes. Even more importantly he hasn't been in an environment in which he could safely consider the things he is now worried about, so this is both new and something he can't apply is reborn mindset to.

GloinJr

I agree that both greater amounts of self reflection and significant life experiences will result in someone being "more mature", I just don't agree with the sentiment that someone going through less of this can mean they are still a child despite having lived like 33 years. The passage of time will inevitably result in a person changing or "maturing", even if the extent to which that change happens can be different based on your experiences during that time you are still acquiring so much more time and experience, regardless of the subjective "weight" or "depth" of that experience

Ivan Dimitrov

Having a skill in his menu doesn't mean he can't be skilled.

Reborn

And going through childhood twice while never reaching adulthood in either does not make you truly more mature or developed mentally. He was sick and died early in his last life, and he’s 15 now. He acts like a kid and thinks like a kid while being physically a child. So I think my comment makes perfect sense.

MindHopper

I disagree that the passage of time has any direct impact on maturity, a 30 yo that has been in a coma for 15 straight years is 15 to my eyes. I also would bet that how much maturity one can expect from someone that grew up without any external stimuli depends on the person, it's not (hopefully) an experiment that we will ever see done so we don't really have any way of settling how and how much experience influences maturity. Again, personally I think it depends on the person, someone who grew up alone can demonstrate more maturity in a relationship than someone that is very experienced, simply because the second one can be an idiot that never learned. Kai seems to me to have the maturity of a teen and so should be treated as a teen, regardless of how many years of life he remembers. Before you tell me of your 33 yo NEET, I want to say that I do think that a 33 yo that has somehow never matured should still be considered a child, but I don't count spending all day on the internet as "no external stimuli" and so the classic isekai NEET would still be an adult. The product of the aforementioned experiment would be a child in an adult body and so no, I don't think he should be able to date a child, nor an adult for that matter

Reborn

Unless Val changes her life plans drastically, I really don’t see a relationship between her and Kai lasting. Their life goals are to far apart, as she wants to go back and take over as leader of the archipelago and he wants to explore the rest of the world.

Brandon Steele

It's all relative. In a world without [Skills] he is probably just fine. However, he is surrounded by aristocrats who likely have a high level of social [Skills], and they grew up with those around them who also have social [Skills]. This puts him at a disadvantage to most.

Xanadar

I feel like your argument is that being in a vat and grown to 33 while sleeping would make someone an adult. Or at least that's the extreme version of it. Your argument of having a certain discussion with your dad that you needed to comprehend a second discussion more fully is very accurate because Kai never had these discussions after he got sick in his first life. Then he also didn't have them in his second life yet. I'd argue he is very much still a child emotionally. Yet he's an adult intelligently. And having teenage hormones is probably not helping. Adults always always forget how emotional teenagers are. It's why we see them as dramatic kids. And that's a common sentiment for adults everywhere.

GloinJr

Genuinely insane that you came to that conclusion Daan, that somehow I believe that a human grown to the biological age of 33 is equivalent to someone who has consciously experienced life for 33 years. My point is that the conscious experience of life leads to one acquiring the perspective and mental framework that we refer to as "maturity", and that even if one has experienced less breadth of life, as in the case of someone like Kai who was in a hospital for much of his life, has still consciously experienced 17 years of life, reincarnated, then continued to consciously experience 15 more years of life. I don't believe you can pick and choose specific aspects of life experience and say "well he has experienced x amount of pain which grants him x maturity points, has comprehended his own mortality and the mortality of his father so that applies x more maturity points, however he hasn't been in a romantic relationship so that's actually a negative modifier on his maturity. By adding his maturity modifiers and dividing by the average maturity points per year, we can determine that he has matured approximately 16.72 years." Like no, he has lived 33 years he is not a child. I don't care at all that he missed certain developmental milestones that an average person hits. If I didn't go to prom in highschool, am I still 17 for the rest of my life???

Brandon Steele

I think this might seem less organic to some readers here because most of these stories/comic/anime tend to have MC that are extremely oblivious. To the point when it is spelled out right in front of them they still twist the interpretation to something else. It becomes almost a mental illness. That isn't normal. Being oblivious is not the same as being stupid. Kai knows what romance is and can see it when looking for it or when it is pointed out. He already noticed all of the patrician trying to make a move on him. Also, usually his and Val's friends pretend to be oblivious as well. This is the first time there has been an undeniable reaction from EVERYONE in group in response to the tension. So all of the avoided thoughts came rushing to the forefront.

GloinJr

Momongama, this comment confuses me quite a bit. First, the idea that you bring up someone being in a coma as a counter point to my argument shows an incredible lack of good faith in engaging with this topic. When I refer to time spent alive I am obviously referring to conscious existence. To jump to your last point, I wasn't referring to a Neet as having somehow avoided all external stimuli (in the same way that Kai hasn't avoided all external stimuli), I'm referring to the concept of a neet because they missed many of the developmental milestones that Kai missed that lead y'all to say he's still a child. They both don't have many friends, haven't moved out or held a job, haven't graduated, etc. The only differences between a neet and Kai is the biological aging of their brains (which frankly isn't applicable in this story cus Kai maintains his consciousness, memories, impulses, and maturity when reincarnating, and to my knowledge doesn't inherit any of the biological limitations of a baby brain) and the fact that a neet probably hasn't gone through the incredibly maturing experience of comprehending and experiencing their own mortality and death. Frankly, I think a 33 year old Neet would be less mature than Kai currently is, having lived 17 years and experiencing death and then experiencing the multitude of events he has gone through in his new life. Kai may have the personality of a teen, but I don't really equate that to maturity that much, I know a 28 yr old ex marine with a less "mature" personality than Kai

Thomas Adams

Well, we almost got a record scratch moment, the music definitely stopped, the background noise faded and there might have been a dolly zoom.0

GloinJr

He definitely doesn't act like any 15 yr old I've ever met Reborn. And idk if I used this example in my reply to your comment, but imo Kai is like a less extreme example of a NEET. Both lack many developmental milestones that one consider markers of adulthood, such as having a romantic relationship, job, graduating from school, etc. And obviously, a 33 yr old Neet is not someone that should be dating 16 yr olds. So why is Kai, someone who had a neet-like life for 17 years then went on to live another 15 years of broad and varied life experiences that aren't consistent with being a neet, somehow less mature than the neet and somehow still has the maturity of a child.

JH

Alright, I think I need to step back and throw some context into this conversation. I think , the real question we should be asking is why are age gap relationships a problem, and then look at those problems individually. Let me throw out the google ai response. Age gap relationships often face challenges due to 1. differing life stages 2. power imbalances 3. social stigma. 4. divergent life goals (e.g., starting a family) 5. differing energy levels 6. financial disparities 7. the younger partner potentially being taken advantage of due to maturity differences or imbalanced control. So let’s address all of these and see where we land. I think I’ll add a 0-5 on an “ick scale” where 5 is the most messed up, and the ick is directed towards Kai. 1. They are currently at the same life stage. 0 ick 2. She has more political power, but he has more personal power. This seems to balance pretty well. 0 ick 3. There is no social stigma for anyone who does not know about his past life. It primarily comes from readers, so I’m saying 0 ick within the story. 4. At this point it’s likely neither has thought much about having children. Both of them have other life goals, but not in a way that messes with a potential relationship. 0 ick 5. They are both young and have similar energy levels, except maybe Kai being kind of manic in his approach to life. 0 ick 6. It’s not clear how they personally measure financially, but presumably her family trounces him in wealth. Still, he has enough that he is financially independent of her. I’d say 0 ick from his side. 7. I think this is probably where most people are concerned. I would say this includes expectations for physical intimacy and pushing for things through logical reasoning. On the point of sexual/intimacy expectations, I don’t think he is any more mature than her. He has been actively avoiding thinking about it at all, and any drive he has (from this life) is biological, which is at roughly the same level as her. I also don’t think his argumentation is more advanced than hers. He isn’t going to steamroll her in conversation or decision making. So once again, I am putting this at 0 ick. That’s my take on this question.

GloinJr

JH, I think Kai sidesteps a lot of the classical issues with an age gap relationship, because those are primarily founded on some ill intent that takes advantage of the age gap, and Kai is generally a good guy. Firstly though the concept of a person who has lived 33 years dating a 16 year old incites a visceral reaction in me, regardless of Kai's biological age in his new body, and I also take great offense to people trying to justify Kai as somehow still just being a child cus he didn't mature at all in his first life or whatever and somehow has skipped all maturing and growth for the following 15 years in his second life. Also side note, I also question the intentions of an author writing in a romance arc in their iseakai stories when the love interest is a minor and the MC has lived like twice as long as them. Like what's the motivation there, why not just hold off on the romance part and let the MC and the love interest age like 5 more years, why must it be a plot point that "yeah this MC totally isnt an adult and has just been in child maturity stasis for the past 15 years and hasn't grown at all". Like I don't think Kai would abuse the relationship dynamic if he happened to get into a relationship but why MUST an isekai MC get into a relationship with a minor. The story is literally entirely made up you can just make it happen later

GloinJr

Like I think the prevalence of isekai MC dating minors is founded on one of the sadder foundations of the isekai genre, in which it is either created for or by someone that regrets their childhood or has lived a sad life and wants to fantasize about re-doing it but being super cool and hot and yadda yadda the second time around. Like I'm cool when there's an Isekai where it's just someone taking advantage of their adult perspective to like optimally grind the power system from a young age, or when it's someone that genuinely was dealt a bad hand in their first life (aka this series), but I find it profoundly sad when it's like wish fulfillment loser bait. I think this story does it fine, it's about someone who never got the chance to live a fulfilling life being granted a second chance with loving parents and good friends, but Isekai like MT or other ones to lesser extents are just kinda sad chud bait where the loser MC becomes the super badass, sexy, op, yadda yadda cool guy that gets everything they want.

A B

Edit suggestion: Isadora said she’s  book a private field.”  -> Isadora said she’s booked a private field.” 

Reborn

So, we have heard you’re issues with what is being discussed, would you have a solution for someone in Kai’s situation?

GloinJr

In the sense of this being a book, as the author I would not make them date because I have ultimate power over everything that happens in the book and am making all of it up. If I were Kai, I just don't date anyone until we're both 18 at the earliest, ideally I would date someone at least 25 though, someone with similar maturity to the age I would be by that point. Cus firstly I don't like women younger than myself or immature people, I think it's kinda weird, and secondly it's pretty easy to just exert a smidge of will power and commit to only engaging in platonic relationships. Ideally date no one you grew up with as you were effectively 20-30 while they were 3-13. So yeah just have self control if I am Kai and if I'm the author just no love interest until everyone's older

Reborn

I personally think it would be much smarter to sidestep the issue and do this as well, the problem the story presents is that no one else knows Kai’s unique situation except Flynn and his mom. Unless Kai wants to reveal the truth to anyone that’s interested in him, it could be seen by them as him rejecting them with a flimsy excuse. I think this makes for an interesting story arc, cuz now we need to see what Kai decides. Ultimately, I doubt anyone here advocates for anything untoward to happen. Let’s just enjoy the story we obviously all like!

GloinJr

Yeah I think the ideal case is Kai tells Valela and Flynn about his reincarnation, they're obviously trustworthy and thus far there hasn't been any mention of reincarnates or any stigma against them, although Kai hasn't really researched it either. But, so far it doesn't seem like being a reincarnator is a bad thing and Kai's reluctance to share that with life-long friends is really just his paranoia showing itself

GloinJr

And obv no shade to the story, Drewells is so far side stepping a lot of the pitfalls of this genre, namely the genre wide acceptance of either slavery or pedophilia, as well as making the MC an unabashed loser that gets isekaied and has his every wish fulfilled. This story is just a very wholesome tale of an unfortunate child that was dealt a bad hand getting a second chance to enjoy life to the fullest, and I appreciate that

GloinJr

Let's go through this point by point BLead. First, don't patronize me, cool? Ight, next paragraph, in two parts. First, a 30 yr old with a mental condition that locks their mental development in an adolescent state is entirely different from Kai, although for cases like that I think either they attempt to set the person up with a person of similar mental faculties, or if the family is comfortable they can monitor the relationship with a person without that mental handicap. Second point, like I said I don't ascribe to any sort of ideas that biological brain development applies at all to Kai's second life in elydes as he shows no signs of being inconvenienced by his baby or puberty brain. He then lived 15 more years experiencing many of the things y'all say he missed out on in his first life, everything besides a romantic relationship and more stuff that a person irl would never experience. He absolutely continued to mature in his 15 years in the new world and the idea that he's stuck in stasis and has no development is not only ridiculous but insulting to the author of this book. Now the response to the final paragraph. No I don't believe that Valela reaching the age of 18 will magically make it ok, as I've said in other comments. I think quite a few years would need to pass because the imbalance in a relationship between an 18 yr old and 35 yr old, while not universally bad, is quite concerning. If I were to write the book, I'd either have Valela find a different love interest (as Kai dating her borders on grooming, even if he had no intentions of doing so his unique personality that he had as a child, stemming from him being a reincarnator, still ultimately led to the infatuation Valela has held for Kai from a prepubescent age. He didn't intend to groom her but intention is only half of culpability), or I would have them date much later in life, maybe when Valela is around the age of 25. Better yet, have Valela enter a relationship with someone else and MAYBE have her date Kai afterwards, she has to experience life outside of this infatuation she has felt towards Kai for like half her life. Cus like why do they need to date now? Why do they need to date the moment they turn 18? I will always doubt the intentions of an Isekai author that has their MC date a minor or someone the moment they turn 18 because I don't like the place that likely stems from. Thanks for coming to my TED talk, I don't think any of your points were particularly relevant, thought out, or reasonable, and don't patronize me ever again.

GloinJr

Yeah I'm being a dick, was never patronizing tho. What's patronizing is your constant insistence on pretending you have a moral high ground and telling me to reflect on x and being "sorry" for me being "this worked up". You wanna be an asshole? Do it with some confidence instead of hiding behind a fake sincere/positive venere. You're so performative in these comments it's like you think you're in front of a panel of judges rating you on how subtley insulting you can be. Such a cowardly way to be an asshole just own it lol. Ngl the TED talk vid was kinda funny, still a lil patronizing but you're getting closer to just being honest to yourself about being an asshole. You talk about not standing for virtue signaling while every comment you make is trying to constantly reiterate your moral superiority in defending pedophilia

GloinJr

And yeah I could've led with a little less hostility but I'm genuinely sick of y'all mushoku tensei typa people who are either closeted pedophiles or who haven't realized they're pedos yet, trying to justify grown men dating minors cus "erm he never actually matured cus of x y and z reasons so it's totally cool for him to buss down on a 16 yr old"

GloinJr

Like the fact that I posted a comment about how I DONT like pedophilia and now have to deal with like 7+ people telling me about how "it's actually chill and u shouldn't worry bro because he like lived for 33 years but is still totally just a child, fr trust me bro" is insane and I feel I'm justified in not being my most civil self with y'all pedos, not to mention you the king pedo chirping at me about how I have to grow, like bro you don't even think a 33 year old man should be with a grown women don't talk to me about growth 😭

GloinJr

You, Seli, were not included in the list of people I would consider pedo or pedo adjacent, you were reasonable, made decent points that weren't outright flawed, and I instead disagreed with on a matter of opinion rather than fact, unlike many others in my replies, and led with the fact that you wouldn't endorse them dating. On the matter of the other people stating that Kai is completely justified in dating a minor, it is at the very least pedo adjacent, coming up with justifications for off cases in which a person who has lived 33 years should be able to date a 16 year old is at best VERY strange and at worst endorsement of pedophilia. You, Reborn, and JH are genuinely the only people I've found to be reasonable in all of this, and even if I don't agree with all of your points you at least don't think Kai should date Valela as a 16 yr old woman. So sorry if this offended you, I kinda stopped addressing people by name half way through. Honestly I wish patreon had a better comment system that would provide clarity in this stuff without me having to address people by name in my comments

GloinJr

Like I really don't get why my comment where I say I don't like pedophilia and am glad it's not gonna be involved in this story was met with numerous people trying to find weird loopholes like they're in a court case rather than a discussion on morality

GloinJr

Yeah I did get a lil heated, I don't necessarily regret my feeling on the matter but my way of communicating it could have been better. That being said, I think the best way Drewells can handle this, or at least the most realistic, would be to have Kai admit he's a reincarnator and the problems associated with that, and Val can go on to date someone else. Then maybe they can get together in the future if vals relationship doesn't pan out. But I think regardless of how long they wait and how old val gets, if her first relationship is Kai that is very problematic as she has essentially been infatuated with someone, who in my eyes, is like 25+ yrs old since she was 8. While Kai certainly didn't try to groom her the mere fact that he has all his life experiences, and his uniqueness stemming from those experiences is what drew vals attention, means that he at least unintentionally groomed her. She needs some time to experience a real relationship with someone her age and figure all that out of her and Kai are to ever be a thing

JH

I can see why you would be concerned when it looks like an author is pushing something like pedophillia. That’s not an ok thing to do. I also understand why people are rushing to disagree. They like Kai, and don’t want to think of him as engaging in pedo. People often make correlations between how they feel about someone and the acceptability of their behavior. IE, “Racism is bad, I’m a good person, therefore I’m not racist.” For my part, I don’t really think of Kai in terms of the author. I think the best authors create a character, create circumstances/conflict, and have the characters react as best they can, consistent with who they are. I’m putting myself in Kai’s shoes, and I’m wondering what is realistic and fair. I think it’s worth asking if them having a relationship is good/bad. I don’t think we should give up on happiness because of imagined problems, so it’s worth considering if this actually qualifies as pedo or not. It’s not exactly a normal situation that follows usual logic. It’s not just a matter of giving in to his desires. It will be very hurtful to Valela if he doesn’t date her. So again, it’s worth considering if it’s good/bad. For the author, I think that them not getting together would be jarring for the story. There has been a ton of buildup towards that. It almost feels like we need to find a way to make it happen or scrap the story entirely. For myself, I think Kai’s mentality is at roughly the level of his age in this world (except for his being highly driven), so personally I don’t see this as inappropriate. However, I can understand why you might feel that way.

GloinJr

Honestly I don't even think the author is pushing it, I would be kinda surprised if this lead up actually ends in them entering a relationship in the short term. I do totally agree that simply putting the term pedophilia in the vicinity of Kai is def inflammatory and probably led to at least some of this back lash though, that association is very insightful on your part. Personally I just really don't think Val and Kai should get together in the short term, and in my ideal world I would like Val to be in some sort of relationship rather than Kai being her first serious partner, but I won't throw a fit if they do get together so long as they give it a bit longer, and Val enters the relationship with full clarity of Kai's past

JH

Definitely agree he should share before they become an item.

Polyist's Apostle

To be honest, I'm just glad that the mental age gap has been mentioned as a problem at all. He may not be using the Harkness test, but at least he's thinking about it as a problem to be solved with time rather than something he needs to get around immediately.

Nicholas

Ugh, what a time to be caught up again. Kai and Val's relationship has been developing for a long time, so hopefully we'll see some resolution soon, now that things are pointed out clearly to Kai.

P.R. Bakker

I hope some friends will be with him for the spar as I smell an ambush. The fact that somebody doesn't act obnoxious doesn't mean they are trustworthy especially as she has a clearly not trustworthy twinbrother.

Gio

Nothing a long distance teleport cant fix. But in essence, I agree. While romantic relationship stories have their merit, I personally find them boring and I hope this story doesn't turn into that. Romantic relationship stories eat up a lot of pages on things I personally do not find interesting.

God

"Isadora said she booked a private field" sounds better imo.

An

i mean for me personally, I thought it was pretty clear that Kai did have feelings for Val, or at the very least found her attractive, so his reaction didn’t really come out of left field for me. I do agree that I would’ve liked the romance to stay in the background, but I doubt the author will make it a big part of the story.

Xanadar

Your combative attitude and calling people pedophiles because they don't agree Kai is a 33yo is very off-putting. It makes me believe you don't understand what grooming or pedophila is nor that you have insight in the maturity of people above 25 and that you don't remember how being young feels physically not just intellectually. If you actually want to discuss this further I'd advise you to read a book about education that describes the mental stages of development for kids and teenagers instead of screaming pedophile to everyone who doesn't share your opinion because they understandably see Kai as being a young adult and not a middle aged guy like you are arguing.

GloinJr

"I'd advise you read a book" I took a college course on child learning and development, I'm familiar with many psychologists' models of maturation and development and none would lend credence to the idea that someone who has lived 33 years should be dating minors, and I'm not gonna be taking life advice from someone that advocates for that so keep your virtue signaling "I'm just tryna help bro this is a growth moment" comments to yourself

GloinJr

Also, your continuous doubling down on this thought process just shows your ignorance of what "maturity" truly is. Child developmental models generally break developmental milestones into major events that you either hit or miss, and the effect of that on the way in which the child develops. Most famously is Freud's sexual development model, in which he describes child development in terms of sexual experiences, the most famous phase being the anal phase where the term "anal retentive" comes from. Freud describes that if a child learns to defecate normally, they will have a more easy going personality, while one who faces trouble in this faze will drive pleasure from retaining their feces and will develop an uptight personality that he refers to as anal retentive. Notice how the model doesn't say "if a child doesn't learn to defecate normally at age 3, they are mentally 3 forever", the milestone is characterized by an either/or statement, where they EITHER experience "normal" development OR become anal retentive. To continue the analogy of Sigmund Freud's psychosexual development model, Kai would've likely "failed" in the latent and genitalia developmental stages. During the latent period, Freud describes children to have no libido, and this stage is instead focused on the development of social skills and values, lasting from the ages of 6-puberty, while failing this stage results in outwardly expressed immaturity and difficulty in forming relationships, both of which Kai presents with. The genitalia stage occurs from puberty-death, and is where sexual interest begins to express itself, and balance forms between the id, ego, and superego where instinctual desire, rational thought, and outward expression grow towards equilibrium. Notice how this stage lasts from puberty until death, it is a stage where one can come to this balance at the age of 15 or 51. Your fundamental misunderstanding of maturity is the idea that it is a series of checkpoints where some outward expression correlates to some specific age, when in reality age and maturity just lead to a calcification of expressed behaviors, whether they be positive or negative. Time and time again Kai has proven this maturity, especially in the most recent chapter 395 where he displays a deep disdain for parties that would be unnatural for a 15 year old that had experienced his life in elydes thus far. It is the prior 17 years of isolation before his reincarnation that have led to this aversion to social situations developing. While a similar disdain is seen in Kai's roommate, this is in all likelihood due to his short life being full of isolation and expectations from his parents as well as an intentionally cultivated distrust of people due to possible political advances, while Kai's life in elydes thus far has been full of mostly postive social experiences that would not lend themselves towards the social aversion that Kai experiences, which can thus only be explained by the calcification of behaviors during his original life. An example that I've used repeatedly that no one wants to acknowledge because they've let the "magic" of the isekai genre infect their minds is that of a 32 year old Neet. Let's say that instead of Kai dying from his chronic illness and reincarnating into elydes, he survived on earth until 32, which I believe is currently how long he has lived. If he had stayed in that hospital with his chronic condition all that time, or lived an isolated life of bedrest at home, he would've undergone less of your definition of "maturity". Yet, would this 32 year old man be justified in dating a 17 year old? Would he have even regressed to having an arbitrary maturity of 13? After all he would've had many more years of what you would call paused or halted maturity. Would he have lost enough social skills that you would arbitrarily categorize him as 13? What if he had catfished a girl from when she was 7 and he was 22, playing video games with her or chatting via dm and claiming he was actually 2 years younger than her? Would he be justified to date her then? No, he would not, just because he hasn't experienced a breadth of normal adult experiences does not mean he has not matured and does not justify him to date within an arbitrarily defined "real" or "actual" maturity age range because such a thing does not exist. At the end of the day your argument comes from a deep level of hypocrisy that you have allowed to fester due to an acceptance of the isekai genre's ability to hand wave away a character's entire past life experiences and characterize them as their new biological age when convenient, and their full lived age when convenient. And finally, the reason I blanket call people of a certain opinion pedos is because of this acceptance of the isekai genre's biggest trick and selling point. By and large the Isekai genre primarily appeals to what one could call losers. People who are discontent with their lives and wish they could redo it or move on to better world where they could be cool. But in this fictional world where the reader's every wish could be fulfilled vicariously, why is it so appealing to some for the MC to date a minor? Why have you held such a hardline stance that Kai MUST date Val right this instance, why can't he wait many more years, or fully (or partially, as has happened thus far in the book) confess his circumstance of having reincarnated. Why can't he wait until he's biologically 18 in this new world, and then date someone who is also an adult, and preferably not the girl he has known since she was SEVEN. Personally, I'm not a big fan, generally, of the isekai genre, especially a full, reincarnated as a baby, type. I find all the wish fulfillment power fantasy vicarious enjoyment blah blah blah pretty odd, but luckily Drewells has not played too much into this. I'm drawn to this book primarily because of the interesting power system, and secondarily due to my interest in Kai's character development of overcoming his past life's experiences and becoming a more fulfilled and confident person. I like seeing a smart character delve into the intracacies of a power system, I like to see them gradually learn it, become confident in it, and occasionally apply it for narrative pay off.