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Krystal

I've been waiting for this one!

Sheri

Never clicked so fast!

tiramisujen ≽^•⩊•^≼

In some schools of Buddhism, “bardo”  is an intermediate or transitional state between death and rebirth. "Chikhai Bardo" is specifically the 4th Bardo, which begins when the dying process begins. Nick you can't be looking for anagrams in everything! 😂

tiramisujen ≽^•⩊•^≼

How amazing does Adam Scott look in this episode? Suddenly you see exactly what the grief has done to Mark 😭

Demanda

I've seen him asked about this in interviews and he's utterly baffled. "All they did was change my hair!"

tiramisujen ≽^•⩊•^≼

Crazy, to me you can visibly see the tension in Mark's face compared to the flashbacks. Adam Scott doing that and not knowing is kinda wild

Ambrosia

I'm sure you saw, but in case you missed it - there was the Lumon drop on the machines that were processing the blood when Gemma and Mark first met while donating at the school. Lumon is everywhere, and has been for YEARS clearly. Gemma specifically mentioned that she got that rabbit/duck test (and the cards) in the mail *from the clinic*... you know, the place that also just got access to all of her medical records and blood as well. There are *a lot* of connections and answers in this episode, if you do get a chance to watch this one again even before the season is over, I'd suggest it. 😊

Susen

Sandra Bernhard - Gemma's nurse, plays Gina's mother (Boyle's new step mother) on B99.

Demanda

He probably just didn’t want to tout his own skill lol

Demanda

If you can’t tell- this is a favorite episode for A LOT of us.

Ambrosia

There's something I just thought about - Milchick took such a big risk asking Dylan about the card because he was worried that Dylan had taken it out of the building. That means that somehow... the code detectors at the exits would've missed the card? That's an interesting thought to think about. If Milchick fully believed that he was able to get the card past the detectors, what other vulnerabilities do the code detectors have? What else could potentially get out?

Sheri

I don't believe they pursued adoption. They only showed us In Vitro Fertilization (IVF) and hormone injections, which give the woman terrible side effects and Gemma said she felt "beat to shit," and probably also mentally exhausted because Mark implied they were on their third round of IVF, all unsuccessful, "third time's a charm." And based on Gemma apologizing to Mark in the fertility clinic, it appears that she's the one with the fertility issue and seemingly blames herself. In an earlier episode when Mark was talking about Gemma, he said something like "she always had a backup plan" which makes me wonder if she believes that whatever she's doing at Lumon will help her conceive.

tiramisujen ≽^•⩊•^≼

Yeah I agree with this, think it's only writing that the detectors work on, are images a vulnerability?

Susen

I enjoy watching with you guys and listening to your theories - I'd watched before but have very little memory of season 2, maybe because it didn't make a lot of sense at the time. But processing with you helps!

Don Della DonDon

I love the fact that this show has you going down rabbit holes that go absolutely nowhere

tiramisujen ≽^•⩊•^≼

I think Mark might have wanted to adopt but Gemma didn't. I agree, I think Gemma went to Lumon willingly under the impression that they would help her conceive- but I think their plan was actually to make her forget she wanted a child.

Shanti (cuchupacu)

when they met mark asked gemma “who are you?”(like the first thing innies hear) and the machinery at the blood drive had the lumon logo. the “lie detecting” was similar to the e-meter used in scientology auditing. there was a goat eye chart in that room. the four ppl observing MDR were physically similar to them. the fertility clinic doctor is the same exports guy that works w gemma in all scenarios. they were on a third attempt when mark gave her a jab and he seemed a little less invested in the process. when she had the chikhai bardo card, gemma said she must’ve gotten on a mailing list at the clinic. the intake form had a lumon logo. sandra bernhard plays the nurse on the testing floor. she was darlene linetti on “brooklyn nine-nine.” i think all the scenarios are things ppl don’t want to do, like the politician’s wife at the birthing retreat, who had her innie give birth. they may want to make it available for many more customers. btw there was a goat on the xmas cards. you guys commented on gemma not looking happy in the early flashback of her in bed w mark, but the last thing we saw was her smiling, which is what the closeup was leading to. they liked camping, so a trip to denali national park may have been her idea of getting back to their hobbies and relationship. edited to say mark was wearing a cardigan the night gemma “died.”

tiramisujen ≽^•⩊•^≼

hahahaha I love that now we're suss on Devon! I mentioned before my friend has been on the Devon train for quite a while but I'll have to ask if that's why!

Demanda

Every man in the rooms with Gemma is the same guy (Dr Mauer). He’s wearing different costumes and false mustaches etc, that’s what threw you off. He’s the same guy who collected the items from O&D and the same man with the mustache telling Drummond he likes Gemma.

Demanda

So at this point in the series, my feeling was that the “testing floor” is exactly what it says it is- the purpose of the rooms is to stress-test the boundaries of severance. Every scenario they put Gemma in is something people would probably choose to skip if they could- dentist, flying, athletic training, writing thank you notes, etc. I think they are purposely choosing things Gemma specifically is afraid of or hates, because that would be the best way to tell if those strong feelings are enough to “leak” past the severance blocks (the nurse asking about being more afraid of suffocating or drowning was an interesting question). They seem to have severed Gemma multiple times and are constantly trying to ascertain if her feelings from the different rooms/personas are carrying over to her real self. Considering the type of scenarios they’ve subjected her to, and the fact that we’ve already seen a woman on the outside use severance for childbirth, it seems clear to me that Lumon is planning to offer severance as a sort of service to allow people to “skip” unpleasant experiences.

Demanda

On my first watch of this season as it was airing, I assumed Gemma’s rooms were exclusively files Mark has worked on- Allentown was his “freshman fluke” that Dylan mentions earned him his glass figure. But rewatching it now with you guys, it’s the first time I’m realizing that the other rooms are files the other MDR employees were working on- Siena was Helly’s file and Tumwater was Dylan’s, for example. I thought this episode was telling us that Mark is important to Lumon because they needed him to create or refine her “rooms”, but now it seems strangers can do it too? So many things to think about now 😂

Shanti (cuchupacu)

i think she just explained the cards as being similar to the duck/rabbit thing.

Shanti (cuchupacu)

i’m pro devon, except both she and reghabi were communicating horribly. if reghabi would’ve just explained everything to devon, she probably wouldn’t have been compelled to call cobel.

Demanda

When Reghabi said that Lumon “raised” Cobel I was thrilled, because it supports a theory I’ve had from the very first episodes of season one. Milchick, Graner, Natalie, and Cobel (and in later seasons, Ms Huang, Drummond, Dr Mauer, etc) all have the same weird mannerisms and speech patterns. I’m convinced Lumon owns orphanages or their equivalents, and starts recruiting these kids from childhood and raising them “in Kier’s image”. We know Cobel went to an Eagan school, so possibly it’s just a school and they’re not literally raising them. But regardless, the employees I mentioned have always reminded me of hardcore Mormons or other small religious sects. There’s a conformity to how they dress and speak. Ms Huang even uses the same exact facial expressions Milchick does when interacting with the innies, and we’ve seen Milchick try to coach Mark’s facial expressions before. So I definitely think every single thing about these employees is carefully indoctrinated in them from a young age.

tiramisujen ≽^•⩊•^≼

I also really like Devon! I’ve just not come across anyone other than one friend who has been a bit suss on her! I got really mad at Reghabi in that episode! Feels insanely irresponsible to leave Mark in this condition!

Sheri

Interesting, but I don’t think she went willingly. I think the promise of fertility is just the “perk” they’re dangling in front of her to try to keep her in line while they use her for their experiments.

Weird Magic

I took it as more of a spiritual statement..."somewhere out there is a little girl waiting to be conceived for us".

Weird Magic

Robby Benson (70's teenage idol) is the actor on the Gemma floor - he is the person in all of the rooms interacting with Gemma.

Sheri

Same

Sheri

And the same man who walked past Mark and Gemma at the fertility clinic

Sheri

Fun fact: This episode was directed by cinematographer Jessica Lee Gagné in her directorial debut. Her DEBUT!!!! It was nominated for four Emmy Awards, winning for Outstanding Production Design.

Demanda

I mentioned this to my partner when we first watched the episode and he was adamant it wasn’t her. That voice is unmistakable!

Demanda

I think Gemma probably was still going to a Lumon clinic and pursuing more options without Mark knowing, but I don’t think she agreed to stage her death. I also don’t think they intended to make Gemma “forget” she wanted a child- we haven’t seen anything (yet) demonstrating that Lumon can remove memories or alter personalities apart from Severance. And messing with her actual personality or memories would undermine the validity of the tests they were running on her.

Demanda

I don’t think Petey knew about the testing room floor, because the elevator isn’t on his map. The drawing has what looks like a sketch of houses that says “people might live there”, and Gemma seems to live in a room on the testing room floor, not a residential area. It’s totally possible that Petey’s memories are confused, but my instincts say he didn’t know about that floor and he’s talking about something else.

Sheri

I think Devon saying "where'd you go?" is just a Mark bookend to mirror the Gemma opening, because the whole episode mirrored Mark's memories with Gemma's testing floor experiences.

Sheri

Very culty indeed!

sarina

Oh Gemma, my heart breaks for her. The actress who plays her is so amazing!

Susen

Oh its definitely her. I’ve been watching her comedy since the 80’s. She was Madonna’s bestie for a minute, a regular on Letterman, on Roseanne.. there’s no mistaking Sandra.

Krystal

I feel like they’ve been making him look so average looking for the “Mark S” look 😅

tiramisujen ≽^•⩊•^≼

I think it's possible that there are rooms that are specific to Gemma like the Christmas Greeting Cards one, but others like Wellington or the one with the plane turbulence seem generic enough for many people to have a fear of. I still think there are other test subjects that we haven't seen that might have some connection to the other MDR employees.

Evie

I think Lumon’s main goal is to eradicate pain. They are a pharmaceutical company. Keir used to work in an Ether factory where he met his wife. The doctor says to Gemma “Keir will take away his pain. Just as he has taken yours”. In every room, there was a different type of pain unique to Gemma but could also be applied broadly e.g. physical pain with the dentist, fear with the plane crash and boredom with the thank you cards. I think Lumon is testing the strength of the Severance chip against pain, mimicking Gemma’s real life to see if any memories will break through. Eventually, they’ll try to sell Severance as an anti pain tool to the world. We already see the start of that with Gabby severing to give birth.

Gatsby

Milcheck's hands were shaking b/c he did about 400 new paperclip re-works. He certainly was shook by the review but the shaking was shown after he had redone that huge pile.

Gatsby

100% agree on your theory of luring Irving out to get into his place to see what he discovered.

Don Della DonDon

Those old timers like myself might have recognized Sandra Bernhard and Robby Benson; when was the last time we’ve seen either one? Nice to see them getting roles in new projects

Gatsby

One thing that I never realized until tonight and probably b/c they are in different episodes and (perhaps) not intended to be similar but Gemma's handshaking from all the repetitive card-signing and Milcheck's handshaking from all the repetitive paperclipping. They are probably unrelated and people can draw their own conclusions on what it means if related, but to me, it symbolizes how the Kier "religion" traps both the outie and the innie. They both suffer in ways they could not have foreseen and have been misled. I think it's interesting.

Gatsby

At I think 21:12 mark

Jessen Langley

I first saw Dichen Lachlan in Dollhouse which coincidentally also explores what defines a person and sense of self and also features a shady company using tech in ways they shouldn’t and she broke my heart there too

Sarah_M

💜💜💜💜

Charl de Villiers

The woman with the "not so kind" face is actress Sandra Bernhard. She plays opposite Robert De Niro in one of my favourate Martin Scorsese movies, the King of Comedy. She's hilarious in that. Mentally, VERY unwell. Oh and you would have definitely seen her more recently on Brooklyn Nine Nine as Darlene Linetti

Michael Weiner

"Allentown" was on the item sitting on Mark's desk that Helly asked Dylan about, and he answered "they just gave it to him."

Shanti (cuchupacu)

remember they have stores that sell suitable innie clothes without labels or writing and everyone else will have guidelines about how to dress. yes, i assume the hardcore employees are like “good” mormons or scientologists w their own jargon and similar way of speaking.

Shanti (cuchupacu)

well, she knows she’s risking her life w what she’s doing, but that’s all the more reason to tell devon everything! i hate when characters don’t inform other characters properly!

Shanti (cuchupacu)

have you guys read “the lexington letter”? it would seem other MDR departments’ files serve very different purposes. it’s implied that the ones “peggy k.” worked on had to do w corporate espionage & sabotage.

Shanti (cuchupacu)

i never realized that! jeez, i usually pay attention to the credits.

Demanda

I think it’s the hair. That haircut with the center part really doesn’t suit his face at all

Demanda

That’s where I first remember seeing her too, in Dollhouse. She was great in Altered Carbon too.

Demanda

I mean, Devon already knows everything she needs to know about why calling Cobel is a terrible idea, and Reghabi even gives her new information: that she was practically raised by Lumon. And Devon still wants to call her. Devon doesn’t even need to know Reghabi is being hunted Lumon for this to be a baffling decision for her character to make. It definitely felt like the only really glaring instance of “make a character do something they wouldn’t to get the pieces in place”.

Brett Christensen

And lost the director Emmy to Andor, the only episode IMO, that was even close. A pretty great year for TV.

CK

I like that their story is told through them both remembering their life together, even though they're apart. The fact innie mark learned about himself was that he could set up a tent in under 3 minutes. He and Helly certainly seemed to set up their "tent" in less time, lol.

Brett Christensen

I would say Lumon’s goal is to profit from removing pain from outies without making clear that the pain was redirected to unwilling innies.

Niamh Vimpany

I agree with you on this - I also think the reason why Ricken and his friends talk/act very strangely is because they were all raised in a Lumon town/area. They definitely did not attend outwardly Lumon institutions but we know that Lumon has their hand in every pie so they were probably surrounded by these cultists growing up (ep 1 convo about ‘the great war’ shows how sketchy their educations were). By contrast, Mark, Devon, Alexa, Petey, Dylan etc probably grew up in normal towns because they seem to act more normally.

Brett Christensen

Also a city in Pennsylvania and the title of a Billy Joel song (though he changed the name of the actual city he sang about). Definitely another place.

Melissa Redstag

I absolutely loved this episode. I reallllllly liked how they did the flashbacks. It was nice to see them all happy.

Nicole

I am shocked that we didn’t even get a tear from Nick! I’ve watched this show so many times, and I still sob at the ending of this episode. I’m a mess right now! 😭 😂

Jackson Potluck

ikr? I almost forgot how in love with him I've always been. Then BAM

Mike Iorio

This could be its own little movie. Beautifully tragic. Tragically beautiful.

Mike Iorio

Which Andor episode? I’m almost done w season 2. A LOT of people just died in the last one I saw, if that gives a hint.

Mike Iorio

Besides writing countless thank you cards, her handwriting is so bad because she’s being made to write lefty. In the doctor’s office with Mark she is filling out the forms with her right hand.