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Page 1640 (Patreon)

Published:
2024-09-13 10:57:54
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2026-06
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VERY interesting and unexpected response to yesterday's page! I spent some time this morning wondering if I should rework the dialogue on this page, or even yesterday's page. I'm not too sure yet. I think you guys definitely have a point that maybe this is unrealistically obtuse on Nick's part... I thought it might be a funny and sweet revelation for them - just something that had perhaps never crossed Nick's mind - but maybe it's just too unbelievable. I don't want Nick to come across as stupid because he isn't! Not sure at all what I think or what to do about these pages so I'll press onwards for now...

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Comments

eve

nick’s face in the first panel 😭

Bluest JM

I think Nick just never thought about it.

Robert

I think it is definitely believable and I do think ca be naive at times, I'm just not sure Charlie needed to tell him. Saying that he is giving up rugby because he would be very busy would have been fine. Really enjoying the story though.

Darling

The way the look at each other I just -

Merel

Nick's face in the first panel lmaooo

Ava

🥰🥰🥰

Jude

Nah I think people are just forgetting that we ofc have the knowledge that Charlie joined bc of his crush, but at the time for Nick they were just friends so he would've never considered it any other way. So I don't think it makes Nick look stupid, it's super sweet and a moment of revelation for him. You definitely do not need to change it

Frances

I can’t handle the cuteness 🥹

Ulises

Ruler of the school 🥹

Tina

i think it's 100% believable that nick doesn't know nor that they talked about it. i mean why would they. and why would nick suspect that that's the reason charlie joined/that charlie already liked him at that point when nick asked him.

Katie H

The way Nick looks so proud of Charlie in the last panel 🥹❤️

Leland

It’s very believable tbh - Nick is not stupid, just never crossed his mind ❤️

Maria H

Teenage boys are famously clueless. I say that as someone who works with teenage boys. Nick's reaction is absolutely believable

Frances

Look at them being supportive and lovely with each other ♥️

Thais Di Stasi

I Like the ideia of Nick not having realised until now

Carina

I’d keep the pages in personally, I think it’s a very funny moment and although Nick knows Charlie had a crush on him, he obviously didn’t know that was the SOLE reason for him joining rugby, so I think it was a funny (and sweet) moment of realisation 😆

Tom

I think it’s entirely possible Nick was so relieved Charlie joined that he didn’t give it a second thought, he was just happy to have him on the team and never thought about it again. I think it’s cute!

Tina
>>149316977

ALSO!! i don't think that people realise that while for us it's been 6 years since they met, for them it's been like what... 2 years?

Lotta HR 🩷

Char you are the best gay❤️❤️

Sulagna Maitra

Nick rarely gets an opportunity to tease Charlie, so this is very special! 😂

James

I personally LOVE this reaction. I can’t believe people think it’s a poor choice or not within the characters personalities. Please keep it I think it’s so sweet 😭😭

Vicky Saumell

I think he was just being naive... I loved it! And the banter!

Elijah Sarkesian

I think it works! Especially since, at least in the comics, Charlie hasn’t quit the team only to rejoin.

Kat

I personally didn't think Nick is stupid with the last page. He just hadn't really thought about it.

Lucy

I don’t think this makes Nick look stupid at all. I don’t think to Nick it would necessarily be immediately obvious that Charlie was into him because he joined the rugby team. Obviously we as readers/viewers know. It’s a very sweet moment!!

Charlie

Maybe a sarcastic, “but I thought you loved rugby” (pouty face) from Nick?

Kayleigh Clarke

No I think it was just Nick being adorably naive!

Sleepyboyeyes

i would never call Nick stupid, maybe a bit oblivious that’s all and that’s okay too… taking into consideration he saw that charlie was a fast runner and invited him and he agreed, in a point in time he didn’t even knew he could like a boy, it’s pretty plausible that didn’t cross his mind, and then with everything going on later on why would this of all things even come up

Flavia Morlacci ☾𖤓

You weren’t pathetic, you’re never pathetic 😫😭 Nick why are you always so sweet? ❤️🥺 i can’t 🫶🏻

Chris

I can believe him being that thick! He loves rugby, so it never occured to him Charlie wouldn't. And the "kinda embarrassing for you" feels like a perfect response ❤️

Brittney

This is too cute, I swear anymore cuteness and my heart will pop. But Nick has a point, like once again you take volume one Charlie to now, he would never believe you on how much he has achieved since then

Caitlin

Perhaps Nick's 'it would be a shame to give up your hobby' could be reworked to be playfully sarcastic?

Sonia

I really like this page today, it is very adorable. THEY ARE ADORABLE 🥰 Maybe it's just focusing it differently on the previous page.

Sarah 🤍

I think it’s cute that Nick didn’t realize until now! It plays into the whole cute-but-kinda-clueless-golden-retriever-energy 💀😂 I think it’s perfect as is and you don’t need to rewrite it!

James
>>149317060

Additionally, you’re telling me “um her dog died” Nick Nelson is aware of everything?

ACxo

I don’t think Nick comes across as stupid! I think he was just trying to get a new member for the team and never realized that Charlie joined just because he liked him. It’s cute to know that now Nick knows that, in my opinion!

Gemma 🍂💙💛

I like the dialogue! Please don’t change it. It was good in the previous page Nick putting two and two together and then switching it back to Charlie and teasing him about it. I don’t think he ever gave it a second thought the true reason why Charlie joined rugby so I like that it’s been addressed and that he didn’t truly realise until now

Roxy

Awhhh no ..don't doubt yourself!! I think it's great and nicks never had a massive ego to be like yeah he's only joining for me etc I think it's great to show he wasn't aware ! And that he's oblivious 💓 xx

Idaemilie

Giggling, laughing and so much love 💕 my heart never gets a break 🥹🙈🙉 it’s so sweet and beautiful 💙 love second panel 🫠

Anna

I honestly think that it’s believable that it never really crossed his mind before, but maybe he would make sense of it a bit more quickly in the situation and not be completely surprised by the revelation. Nevertheless, the panel is SO cute and I love that moment between them 🥰

Charlie

Rugby King and the Ruler of the school unite!!

Nikki

Oh please don’t change it. Especially the first panel here as it’s hilarious! I think Nick’s reaction is believable. Either he would have been just so relieved to have sorted the rugby team or he was distracted enough by his developing crush on Charlie that he just didn’t quite connect all the dots. I think it’s believable and, quite honestly, adorable. And I think the tone of this page is spot on.

Shane Green

Personally I don't see any problems/issues with this scene or the dialogue in it. Nick and charlie are two teenagers! A lot of things whirling around their minds, trying to grasp the concept of so many new things and understanding things they already knew about changing (...alright, pardon the tangent 😂) Anybody at any time may overlook something that, from the outside looking in, seems 'obvious'. That doesn't make it unrealistic or make them 'stupid' by any means 🙂❤️

Laurenjedi

I thought it was sweet and definitely believable! It reminded me of their first confessions in the conservatory… they’d already kissed for the second time, talked about some feelings but were still surprised to hear they liked each other mutually 😂😂 Charlie kept up with rugby after he started dating Nick, and even while struggling physically after his time being treated for anorexia. Anyone (even his boyfriend!) is going to believe he is playing because he actually likes it… also the fact that he started playing so soon after meeting Nick, he really didn’t know Charlie as a non rugby player for long. I don’t think this is far fetched at all! It doesn’t make Nick stupid or anything, just slightly naive in a very sweet and loving way 🥰

Catriona

In my head Nick is aware he was a motivating factor in Charlie joining but maybe not aware how much so this does work

ama

i personally think it's totally fine as it is, just because nick didn't realise it, doesn't mean he's stupid, he just probably never questioned anymore why charlie agreed to join the team. and i think today's page is a perfect continuation, back to their bantering! but i do think it will be a change for nick, he's not used to being on the rugby team without charlie anymore (thinking of show!nick in s2 telling charlie "I need you"), so he'll probably feel a bit lost again. and since it looks like this is where nick's storyline goes in vol6, it makes sense and fits perfectly fine!

Ashley Robinson

I do think the he single page to think about can cause some of those thoughts. I didn’t necessarily think that, but as a 36 yo American demisexual maybe I just read it differently.

Laurenjedi

Honestly, I personally hope you don’t change it because I think it’s just lovely and it’s so nice to still be able to have these revelations after being together for a little while❤️

Lisa

I think it is completely believable. Nick is so sweet and I didn't think he was stupid. I thought he was just a bit oblivious, he doesn't realise how hot he is!!!

Claudine Newman

It was definitely believable! That’s just something that never entered his mind. Why would it? It’s just not how he thinks. Personally, I don’t think it needs to be changed. I think it achieved exactly what you wanted it to achieve. Also, just a thought, Nick hasn’t always had friends to talk to about things like that and without chatting it through he may not have seen what others would see. I say don’t change anything but that’s just my opinion. When I read through the comments yesterday, I didn’t say anyone saying anything negative about it, they must have come later on. But what happened yesterday 💯 fits the Nick we know and love.

Chloe ♡

i love their little proud faces in the bottom panels ❤️

Merel

Nick is definitely not stupid, but maybe a bit oblivious when it comes to Charlie? Nick asked Charlie to join the rugby team before he even realised he had a crush on him. I think it's quite believable that them being on the rugby team became their new normal and therefore Nick didn't even stop to think why Charlie had agreed to join. You don't need to change it in my opinion, it is a very sweet and funny moment.

K Lyn

I think it’s super cute and sweet. But I feel like Nick would have realized after they did start dating but maybe not. When we are younger we are a lot more oblivious to things like that

HLMac88

I think it’s cute. The rugby event was slightly different in the book than the show. I think it’s believable in the context of the book. I don’t know it was ever made obvious, the way I saw it was once the other boys started accepting him he was there because he enjoyed it not just because he liked Nick.

Jay

I thought it was sweet and felt very Nick and Charlie coded. I like to think we all can be a little bit clueless sometimes, when we are falling in love.

Tina

also alice remember, we ponder in each page about 24hrs. the normal reader won't think as much as patreons do

Songbird3724

I just read it as Nick was too wrapped up in his own feelings to think about how Charlie may have felt, I think it fits perfectly!

Julia Schmidt

Maybe you could make Nick still shocked because he thought that was only one of the reasons. Like Nick knew he joined cuz he liked him but had no idea it was the ONLY reason. He thought he actaully enjoyed rugby. But I didn’t think there was an issue, I think it’s cute!

Tina
>>149317123

if it was sarcastic the rest of the conversation wouldn't make sense. besides, this conversation is 100% believable

Rania Gollakner

It makes sense for me for Nick to be surprised that it didn’t grow on Charlie a little bit to explain why he stayed in it for so long. Charlie had a crush and he joined rugby but then they started dating, so why didn’t Charlie leave rugby sooner if he didn’t even like it a little bit? So that would take me by surprise if I were Nick, the revelation that 100% of the reason Charlie was in rugby was because of his crush.

Noemiette

I think it works in the context of the comic. Because even after being away for months, Charlie went back on the team even if it was difficult for him at first. So it isnt a surprise Nick would think he genuinly loved playing rugby. But it would definitely not worked in the tv version of them since Charlie actually tells he rejoined the team to spend more time together (and maybe some people are doing a blend of those 2 versions of the characters in their head) Maybe having Charlie here in the comic adding that he did have fun and liked some parts of it would make seem less like Nick is "soooo stupid for not seeing that Charlie hated playing rugby all this time"

Olivia

i personally think the page should stay the way it is as i think that it just never crossed nicks mind that charlie joined the team due to his crush and was just really happy that he managed to convince his friend to join the team, nick also wasnt even aware of his own crush at the time so this could be why he wasn’t aware of charlies - this does not make nick look stupid in any way, we know young people can be oblivious to things and think this is such a lovely moment between them - nick also very rarely gets to tease charlie about things so this is very appreciated!!

Chris

I find it perfect like that ! Nicks intelligence is restored with this first line :)

ichrisnorman

I think today's page changes how you could read yesterdays, for the better :0) 🍂🍃

SoraNoRyu

I think it makes perfect sense for Nick to be slow in this point. Intelligence isn't a linear thing, and in Nicks case, yes, he's smart, but he's also modest. Picking up on the fact that someone as amazing as Charlie would be so in love with Nick that he'd join a team for a sport he doesn't even like - that requires Nick to see himself as someone who's 'worth' that amount of admiration. Thinking Rugby is just the greatest sport ever requires a lot less confidence, especially as Nick never saw Charlie as a scrawny nerd - he initially just picked up on how fast Charlie can run. So it also might not have occured to Nick that Charlie might hate sports or think he's not good at them, which is why Charlie doesn't enjoy Rugby in the first place. In short, it's not Nick being dumb, it's that he and Charly have a slight disconnect in how they see themself and each other.

Eileen

I thought Nick definitely knew Charlie wasnt super into it and joined because of him. Haha.

Sarah Jacobs

I completely believe that Nick never gave it that sort of thought. At the beginning he believed that Charlie was a good person who wanted to help him out on the team and then when they became more, Nick thought Charlie stayed because he liked it or him or both. Nick just never thought about it. It's a sweet moment and a beautiful callback Alice. I'd leave it be.

Eileen

I love reading your thought processes as you work, Alice. :D

2catlovers

I think Nick just never thought it over much but it all clicked really fast for him. Please leave it - the pages are lovely as they are.

Robert
>>149317333

I think you hit the nail on the head about Nick's friends. He didn't know any of Charlie's friends and he certainly couldn't talk to his friends about Charlie and any feelings he had. That is clear in one of the books when he admits none of his friends know he likes guys.

Bec

Please leave it Alice. I think it’s a beautiful representation of the growth in Nick’s understanding of his love for Charlie. The naivety of this interaction is really beautiful and shows how he is learning how to be rather than just feel.

SoraNoRyu
>>149317163

That's also a good point. Nick never fell for the 'the gay kid seeks my company, he must like me' fallacy either.

Barb

I can literally hear nick's soft but proud voice saying "Ruler of the school" in my mind💙

Caitlin
>>149317123

Obviously, hence the reworking of the conversation as Alice is considering. I personally see why Alice is a bit unsure and was making a suggestion, it doesn't have to be taken on 🤷‍♀️

Siska

Well could it not be a bit more light hearted and a little joke between them? Like he kinda knew but was playing along 🤷🏼

Francis Larrigan

I liked that Nick was oblivious to why Charlie joined the rugby team. I don’t think it makes him look stupid, I think it shows a level of modesty on his part.

Dionne Lakey

No please leave it - being oblivious to how much someone likes you is ridiculously endearing and not stupid at all. He's just self-effacing and humble - so he never assumed anything about Charlie until Charlie told him he liked him. Very in character.

Olivia
>>149317568

100% agree, i dont think nick would ever have that kind of ego!

Debbie

He's not stupid but he's also young and he did ask Charlie to join. So I find this totally believable! Super cute 😍

Puppies&Kittens

I think it wouldn’t have made any sense for TV Nick to not have figured it out but Comic Nick could have believably been oblivious, since Comic Charlie was actually good at rugby and never quit/rejoined the team. I think sometimes it is easy for us to forget the finer details of which version we are engaging with :)

Merel

I don't think you have to change it, but I'm curious though. Did Charlie really never start to like rugby in all the time that he played it? It's obvious he initially only joined because he had a crush on Nick, but did he stay on the team just to spend more time with him? Or did he actually enjoy the sport as well? Charlie is not a quitter but I also feel like he wouldn't continue doing something for so long that he actively disliked.

eva cuervo

I think it's perfect like this. It fits a lot with the way both of them were when they met. It's doesn't make Nick look stupid. He seems what he is, a very good person. ❤️

Robert

An irony is that had Nick not seen how fast Charlie runs (which caused him to ask Charlie to join the rugby team) I wonder how the story would have gone. Clearly Charlie had a massive crush on Nick but how would he have been able to get with Nick if rugby had not been involved. Equally would Nick have realised his feelings for Charlie?

Nina

I dont think its unrealistic that Nick never realized.. And it doesnt make him look dumb in my eyes! I thought it was a very cute scene🥰 You should keep it as is

Kody

I think it's really cute that Nick didn't realize! Like it mirrors how he didn't understand he had a crush on Charlie at first so he probably wouldn't have noticed!

Colette Roug

I don’t think it’s i believable! I think that when Charlie first joined, Nick knew that it was because he asked him, but after he stayed even after they got together and were dating for a while, Nick just assumed that he ended up liking it anyways. I think that’s a totally understandable reaction!

Francis Larrigan

And remember, Charlie didn’t jump at the chance to join. He put up reason why he wouldn’t be suitable, so it’s reasonable for Nick to not automatically think that he was the reason. Maybe he thought Charlie was doing him a favour because they were friends.

Oliver

I think we all loved it!! Sorry if our comments were kind of confusing 💗💗

Diego G

Leave it like this!

Chloe ♡

little nick back then wouldn’t have realised and their relationship formed after so nick wouldn’t have assumed that was the reason charlie joined because he still had his own sexuality journey to go on and would have just thought charlie genuinely wanted to join the team so i think these pages are fine and very real that a teenage boy can be that oblivious ❤️

Sandra Rose

I think it’s absolutely believable that Nick had no clue and it’s actually super sweet, lots of people are oblivious to subtle hints that someone likes them especially at that age.

Tina
>>149317123

clearly alice's doesn't want to actually rework the conversation, otherwise they wouldn't have planned the story out this way. they're just insecure about the reactions they got yesterday, which i, and the majority in todays comments, don't agree with. nicks reaction makes sense in the timespan and the context of the comics.

melly2oo

Omg no Alice I love it!! So so funny!! And like I commented that page, boys are genuinely that oblivious (in my experience), no matter how intelligent they actually are. It can be very endearing

Claire

Nick's reaction here handles it with a smile. It is a very funny and sweet revelation between them on the rugby. Charlie would not have carried on playing rugby for so long if he was not enjoying at least the fitness aspect and getting to know a different group of school mates - Nick knows that. If Charlie really disliked it he would have given it up once he - 'got his man'. I do think maybe Charlie would joke -- so you really asked me to join the team because I was a fast runner -- *nothing else* -- are you sure about that?! If so I am crushed! 🤣 I hope we get to see a bit of them both being the "it couple' - rulers of the school in the upcoming pages.

Thomas Bird

Alice I’m just pleased the Patreon is back and I can get a daily dose of Nick, Charlie and the gang!

Adriane Tanjutco

I personally don’t mind to see Nick a little oblivious since he thinks he has a chance of beating Charlie in Mario Kart one day 😏 but honestly it’s endearing

Faye

I actually think it’s Nick coded because he couldn’t have actually known I mean it wasn’t like Charlie didn’t try when he was playing ok the team he would actually run around when he had to

Sophie

I think it's believable and very cute! ❤️

Sabrina

I can only agree with the others, the fact that he never realized isn’t that unrealistic and maybe he really thought that Charlie started to like and enjoy it as much as him. It wouldn’t make him dumb, it’s actually really cute and would totally fit his personality. I wouldn’t change it also and leave it as it is 🥰 It makes Nick even more endearing

Christie

No Alice, I loved Nick's cluelessness to that, it doesn't make him stupid. It's a great interaction between them 💜

Brenda L

This might be a bit of a convoluted reasoning but I think the fact that Nick does not stereotype Charlie into the unathletic gay nerd attributes to why he doesn’t question that Charlie’s motive is simply to spend time with him. As the relationship builds Nick sees how Charlie genuinely puts the effort to participate and get along with the team even though at times they remind him of his bullies, something not many would face just to spend time with someone when there are other opportunities (in class, at their houses, etc.). I don’t think is unrealistic or naive on Nick’s part.

Dorothy Vincent

I thought he came off as someone who thought maybe he had to ask and push Charlie to join the team, but once he was there it kind of grew on him. And it’s not that he was necessarily unaware of why he joined the team in the first place, but that he kind of…forgot? In light of how much fun he himself was having with Charlie on the team. So as a descriptor, I would say obtuse, no, but maybe easily distracted by both his own and their shared joy in the moment? I thought it kind of fit with the whole Golden Retriever energy Nick gives off, actually—it’s cute :)

Lindsey H

I think there’s a difference between comic Nick and tv show Nick. I felt like Nick being surprised about Charlie not liking rugby in the comic was very believable, especially since I don’t think Charlie had the same struggles in the comic as he did in the show.

RCM

One (of many!) of my favorite things about Heartstopper is how you have created this beautiful, hopeful, queer love and friendship story as Nick and Charlie are growing and also learning to handle (and communicate) some real life hard shit, but on top of that, you’ve managed to create this space where the readers can all relate and connect on a personal level despite our very different lived experiences. That lets us pick up on subtle things and interpret them differently, also healing us along the way, and makes us better versions of ourselves, too. I love that about the novels (and the Patreon comments) especially, and the fact is that every time I reread the books, I pick up on new nuances and have new insights… And, for your question of Nick being viewed as obtuse, I see what you are saying. I feel protective of Nick too. I’d need to spend some time flipping back and forth between the pages (like one would do when they DON’T have the luxury of hyper fixating on a page a day, lol)…but if you are concerned, it’d be easy to make teeny adjustments on yesterday’s page (like a little heart mixed in with the question marks, etc), to show he gets it but is still surprised/overwhelmed all while leaning into the sweetness of Charlie’s “sacrifice”…I do love how today’s page turned out and feel like it’s the perfect response, but I agree, I don’t want Nick to be seen as dense because he is anything but🫶

Larisa

Noo, don't change it ❤️ Nick being pure like this is one of the reasons we love him ❤️❤️❤️

art

Alice, thank you for this page and the honesty with your comments. Nick and Charlies relationship could be understood using the theory of "Attachment Styles". If Nick had an Avoidant style and Charlie had a Anxious style then it would not be unrealistic for Nick to be oblivious to Charlie's real motivations about Rugby. That is Charlies desire to be close to Nick. Maybe Nick may not even see himself as worthy of the attention of Charlie. However as they both become more "Secure" due to therapy and the relationship the idea that Charlie joined Rugby to be near Nick may have started to come into his thoughts. I hope this is helpful to you as you navigate the language. However I must say that I think what you have written is fine.

Stig Ludvigsen

I love this response from Nick, but I thought he was too surprised on the previous one. I'd expected more of a "Yes, I knew it" response before this page

Kaila K

I love that Nick didn't realize that Charlie only joined the team because he had a crush. Since Charlie actually tried and got decent, I could totally believe that Nick thought it was an honest interest in rugby. This page goes back to their playful banter, and I doubly love Nick's response in the first panel! This is a perfect interaction between our boys

Lisa

I loved that Nick had no clue. I think it's realistic. When I was in high school, knew alot of people who are oblivious that someone had a crush on them.

Emily

Love that Nick didn’t realize, I don’t think he came across as stupid at all. It was super sweet!!!

•Luck Of Lucks•

Love how Nick thought that rugby was Charlie's Hobby😭❤️

Sarah Parker-Shemilt
>>149317564

Definitely I think folks assumed Nick wouldn’t take the new particularly well, especially given the previous conversation with Tara.

DogBefriender22

Whether we’re thinking of the comic version or TV version, I don’t think it’s that odd that Charlie would carry on playing rugby even if he wasn’t that keen on it. If he hated it then that’s different , but he’s never said that. As well as rugby being activity where they can spend time together, I think Charlie would also have liked that it meant he got to know some of Nick’s rugby friends and that they would get to see N&C together. And Charlie doesn’t give up easily - I think he was mature enough to know that by watching Nick do something he loves, he’d get to know Nick better, how he ticks. By sticking with it, he’s learnt a lot, and has shown Nick that he’s clearly prepared to compromise on how he spends his time - because he loves Nick so much 🥰. OMG they really are the absolute perfect textbook couple. Relationship Counsellors could learn SO much from them!

Jeffrey Snow

To be honest, I had the same reaction as Nick 🤣 I also knew Charlie joined because of Nick, but I thought he had started to have a good time with it haha. I felt like in the show, it wasn't very surprising when Charlie quit, but the comic did feel more surprising?

Nyssa Rawther 🍉

In Nick's eyes, Charlie now has all the infinity stones 🥰🥰🥰

Makeda

nah i like it

Audrina

THE DIALOGUE IS SO FUNNY i have to admit my first reaction yesterday was "wait he wasn't aware???" but at the same time i'm not really surprised deep down and i don't think it's unrealistic... i've been in a somewhat similar position before (ex: friends showing me appreciation and me not really realizing they're so nice to me because they like me lol)...

Franny

I love the dialogue. This is something new and unexpected :)

Leonie

i think you should definitely keep it how it it alice, it’s a funny little scene! i didn’t think that nick came across as stupid at all!

RO

The humor on this page definitely centers the emotions on yesterdays, please don’t change it! It’s hard when we can’t see where the conversation is going, but this page makes the entire conversation much more light hearted and funny

boombroadcast

Aw what a cute page! The decorative eye patch suits Charlie more than it should, he looks adorable. And I love that Nick won’t let Charlie get away with calling himself pathetic even in jest, feels very right. 🥰 I was one of the people who had some trouble believing Nick could be so oblivious, partly because he’s been paying such close attention to Charlie and his feelings about things for so long, but also because I just would have expected their respective crush phases (and Charlie’s indifference to rugby itself on like, a day to day basis) to have come up before? Like I’d have expected some casual complaining by Charlie/banter/etc. over the course of a couple years. But obviously not everyone shares the same opinion on this, and it’s not like Nick (particularly comic!Nick) has never been a bit clueless about things!! I just tend to interpret him on the more perceptive/less himbo-y end of the spectrum lol, but it’s all subjective, and very few readers are gonna be overthinking it to this degree. 💕 If you did end up wanting to tweak the dialogue, maybe it could just lean a bit more into the teasing about how down bad Charlie has been (like playing rugby to impress your crush is one thing, sticking with it for so long just to spend a little more time with your bf is kinda next level), rather than this being completely brand new information for Nick?

Dionne Lakey

Also Nick loves rugby, so when he saw another athlete good at running he thought how well he would do at rugby. He thought: I bet he'd like rugby too. Never occurs to him that someone who plays rugby couldn't love it after trying it out.

Justin S.

I think Nick could’ve been in his own thoughts with it and thought Charlie was truly enjoying it outside of him

RCM

So, I am thrilled to see Nick Nelson flirty and happy here…I’ve been worried about him since he was on the sofa with Elle, continuing to push any intrusive thoughts down before they became really real. But they are too cute on this page!! The center panel with the “pathetic and gay🥰” Charlie and the “smitten beyond acceptable norms” Nick is soooo precious! The affectionate way Nick swoops Charlie up into a hug and lifts him just enough to get as close as possible really emphasizes the total adoration going on here. I mean, you can feel the joy and love jumping off the page! (How horsey has managed to stay upright this long is beyond me, lol) and I LOVE how we get two separate closeups of them in panels 3 and 4. They each look so grown up and happy, and the way they are looking only at each other feels a little like a glimpse into their future…like, say, when Nick has to leave for uni after a visit home. I love how Nick is still reaching out with his arm to hold onto Charlie. Separate but connected. Their own selves, and boyfriends. And, hell yes, Charlie, ruler of the world…look at you now. LOOK AT YOU NOW❤️‍🩹❤️‍🩹

emily

i don’t think it makes nick come across as stupid !! i think it’s just something that he never would’ve thought much about. it’s such a sweet funny scene, i hope you decide to keep it as it is 🥺

S S

As someone in a very long term relationship, sometimes you reminisce on moments at the beginning of your relationship with new eyes, when your partner shares something from back then that you didn't know. Is sweet and funny at times. I think is completely realistic this didn't come up before and Nick just didn't give much thought at Charlie joining other than him being a good friend and runner at that time. So no need to change it! It's cute!

Yasmin Fiuza

Personally, I don't think it's unbelievable that Nick thought Charlie liked rugby because he never complained about it, fitted in on the first week and stayed on the team for more than a year, at least on the comic. In the show, we know Charlie left the team on the sports day but eventually came back, and he stated that he used rugby as a way to see Nick more that school term. I think this page is cute, and there's nothing wrong with it. Sometimes, we are a bit oblivious about things our loved ones do or feel, and analyzing this through Nick's perspective, we can tell why he thought Charlie viewed rugby as a hobby. Anyway, I'm really curious about how this scene will translate to the tv adaptation

Lexou chan

I didn't think it was unrealistically obtuse or that that made Nick looks stupid ! It was cute and funny and yeah made sense in retrospect for Nick !

E Valdés

I don’t think it’s unbelievable!! i think nick was genuinely focused on his skill at first and then once they were together charlie still played on the team! so i can see him maybe not realizing that

Nicola Hart

I thought it was really cute - such a sweet realisation for him !

Jay Paul Mayer

I'm not sure it would have ever had to come up before now for them. Charlie's reason was to get closer to Nick. When you want to get closer to someone you invent reasons to do things that would never come up in conversation. And Nick is well Nick so the idea might never cross his mind without being told. But this way it offers Charlie an honest out. I say don't change it because, speaking from experience, I've done this sort of thing, and I know I'm not the only one that has. Besides what we know from the outside looking in on them should not shape their relationship on the inside of the story.

Lauren

Noo I really like this direction! I don't see it as nick being stupid but more so that he thinks so highly of Charlie that he never thought that Charlie would do something he didn't like just for him. It's kinda cute

Kayleigh Clarke

Please don’t change it Alice, it’s adorable that Nick hadn’t realised until now and I think very fitting in their relationship 🥰

lutralutra

That face 😆😆😆😆

Evergreen

I think it works great in the comic. Just because *we* know Charlie joined because of his crush, it doesn’t mean Nick would have known. He didn’t even know *he* had a crush on Charlie back then, and by the time he did, time had passed and Charlie was a fixture on the team. I love this revelation. It won’t translate as easily to the show since show!Charlie isn’t as good at rugby and Nick seems to be aware that he doesn’t love it, but the show and comic are different. I think it’s easy for fans to mix the two up, but there’s really no reason for comic!Nick to have considered Charlie’s motivations until now, since comic!Charlie is good at rugby. I think you should keep it! Plus I love how the humor builds up over these two pages.

Lolli98

Hi Alice, never meant to make you doubt your own work!! I still find it a little unrealistic they never talked about Charlie's true intentions to be on the rugby team. But I don't mind and would NEVER assume that Nick was stupid! Maybe Sometimes a little blinded with love...and that's adorable.💕😊

Ashlett

I actually love the dialogue and think it ABSOLUTELY tracks. It’s not that he’s stupid. It’s that he’s a disaster bisexual. I even called it from the page before and was excited to see Charlie tell him and see Nick try to process it. Big fan of these few pages.

Sarah 🤍

(sidenote - charlie is looking so so cute in this chapter… like he is aging like fine wine as this series progresses!)

ruthie.von

I really think it fits for Nick’s personality. He’s a very unassuming person, which fits with Nick’s not-your-typical-rugby-lad persona. I don’t think the fact that he never assumed Charlie joined the rugby team because of him makes him look stupid. I think it tracks. He’s always seen Charlie as a very strong and independent person, and at certain point he’s maybe been one of the only people to really trust Charlie’s ability to make decisions for himself. It makes sense that he wouldn’t have assumed Charlie’s choice to join the rugby team had anything to do with him. Not dumb, just unassuming. I also really hate when people make Nick out to be a dumb jock. It’s such an un-nuanced way to understand him as a person/character. But because people love a binary interpretation— Charlie the nerd because he’s good at school, and Nick dumb because he’s not similarly “studious”— I think there will always be people who lean into interpretation of Nick as “the lovable himbo” as though it’s the only way to make sense of a character who is popular and athletic, but also sweet and genuine. In so many ways Heartstopper as whole is an encouragement to look beyond the surface-- a practice in breaking down stereotypes, not as the exception, but learning that generally sweeping people into boxes isn't useful to us as a society, it starves our need for connection. I think you’ve shown us that there’s way more to Nick than being a "rugby lad" and that there’s way more to Charlie than being a “gay nerd”, like, that’s the joke they have with each other and it’s funny because of the exaggerated nature of it. There are different kinds of intelligence, and maybe I’m speaking from my own wounded inner child who always felt I was stupid because school was hard for me, but I think the Dumb Nick trope is annoying. Nick is one of the most self-possessed and communicative characters in this story from the get go. That’s a kind of intelligence. Anyway, thank you for coming to my TED talk.

Evergreen

And also, aside from not loving the binary-ness of the term, I have NEVER gotten himbo vibes from Nick. I don’t think he’s simple or obtuse at all. I guess I can see how readers could read his general golden retrieverness that way, but to me that doesn’t translate to Nick being dense AT ALL. Nick is still in the process of learning a lot about himself that he’s never had to challenge before, and he’s approaching it thoughtfully and with an openness to greater self-awareness. Please keep following your instincts for these characters - they’re beautifully crafted and such wonderfully complex humans!

Cody

I personally want to see how the whole conversation plays out before suggesting any dialogue/art is reworked. I can see both sides with Nick

Rudolf Burggraaf
>>149320072

I totally agree with you. Don't change it. We just never saw them talking about rugby so why would it have come up? no reason, I think. It was a lovely page, and it made me smile and feel good.

Liz

I just want to say I was sad because Charlie was quitting rugby and they won’t see each other as much. But I actually think it’s super healthy for them to start finding their own paths that include each other but aren’t about each other! I love this flirty panel!!

Aristine

i think the pages are ok! at the time nick himself wasnt aware of his own feelings i doubt he associated charlie trying out for the team as him crushing on nick. i do find it funny it took charlie this long before saying anything but i guess it also makes sense since he’s quitting for good this time round

Rafa
>>149322024

I agree. He's the opposite of self-centered, and the fact that it didn't even cross his mind that Charlie joined rugby just for him seems totally in-character. The only thing I find surprising is that it took them this long to hash this out! :-) In my experience one of the first things a couple does after they finally realize they both like the other is recount all the clues, missed hints, things one did to get the other's attention, etc.

Ana Alicia Aranda De Contreras

Alice, never doubt your work, the truth is, the two pages you have published and their dialogues are perfect, it is the essence of Nick and Charlie in their entirety, never doubt it, beautiful 🥰🥺

Rocky

I loved yesterday’s page and just checked again to ensure my initial interpretation of the page was the same today as it was yesterday, I can confirm it is. From my perspective, I see Nick’s response as being two fold, firstly, his shock at Charlie being open and confident about his true intentions towards Nick when joining the rugby team and secondly, Nick suspecting this to be the case only confirms Charlie saw in Nick something that he didn’t see in himself. It didn’t cross my mind that Nick was stupid or that the interaction between them was unrealistic. I love the fact that there are so many different responses to the last two pages, so please don’t change the dialogue as it’s a trigger point for conversations and debates 😊

Lolli98
>>149322087

I had to look up the term "himbo". I agree, Nick isn't himbo at all!

Lindsay Klein

I totally get these pages and I love the playfulness or remembering the early days! Of course there would be stuff they each didn't know about each other xx

Laura

I loved it. It is so completely nick. I think it's believable but might be cute to add that maybe nick asked Charlie to join cause he had a crush too.... and maybe charlie never saw THAT coming. I don't think you should change your vision. You could rework it, if it made you feel better about it. Alice, you're so beyond talented and these are YOUR characters, so in my opinion, what you create for them ...just is.

Galen Longstreth

I was surprised that Nick didn't know, but it doesn't pull me out of the story exactly, just requires a slight adjustment of what I figured had already been said between them. Honestly, I think fewer question marks in the fourth panel (maybe just one question mark) on page 1639, and then Nick laughing in the last panel (also 1639) instead of saying wait, wait would make a lot of sense. Alice, as a writer, I really appreciate your interest in our thoughts on this. It can be really fun and absorbing figuring out how to make a story work the way you want it to, and I hope this huge amount of feedback helps you see again how much we like the story AND helps you decide what you want to do.

Casey Pitts

i think it’s so on brand for nick! in the sense that if he’d thought more on it he definitely would’ve figured it out but it just never really occurred to him!

brie

I think people are overthinking it! i think it’s a fun and silly convo and didn’t give me the impression that nick was stupid at all

Harri Watson

Nick is so proud his little 🥹🥹🥹

Bee Levy

when nick asked charlie to join the team, he was still coasting by on good vibes and nice hair so i think it makes sense for this to have just never crossed his mind!! i don't think it comes across as obtuse, i think it's a fun little call back to who nick was, especially considering all the self discovery he'll do this chapter... maybe i'm way off base but those are my feelings on it 😅

Linney

If you really do want to change it, maybe just make Nick a tiny 🤏🏼 bit less surprised :D I love this moment though and I don’t think it’s too unbelievable. Nick’s had a LOT on his mind lately, the fact that he didn’t think about this one thing too hard does NOT make him seem stupid.

Jacqui Chesterton

I don't want to shut down anyone's opinion, but I also think our relationship with the characters and yours are completely different. That's normal. Please trust yourself. You've lived with them for years.

Loveislove

Hi Alice - today's page is everything that is Nick and Charlie - warm banter, blushing, love language of touch, love language of affirmation and a radiating sense of equality and connection. I love their ability to talk to each other and yesterday's page did have me feeling a sense of black and whiteness in both their words and reactions. I thought it would be understood that Charlie was not passionate about rugby but grew to be somewhat skilled at it and enjoyed the fitness of it which is also important for mental health. The panel showing Nick's face with just question marks instead of maybe a slight smirk as well would show that Nick is aware by now of Charlie's feelings. But Alice - I am trapped in a page a day slow burn and you know where the story is going. I know this will read differently when it is all put together.

Sonia

I think that it might be that people who will read those pages at once without the pause of the day between them will not overthink it as I did for example. Reading it now as whole dialog it is like flirty banter and more when we consider the fact that this is party slightly drunk conversation.

EC

I think this aligns with nicks confession that he thinks Charlie is the bravest person he knows… and also that he really admired Charlie before he realized that he had a huge crush. I think maybe a small piece of him can’t believe how lucky he is that Charlie likes him and so wouldn’t always assume that Charlie had this huge crush on him too. Also sometimes even the smartest teens are a tad bit clueless from time to time… they can’t help it… it’s a brain development thing!

Moomy

I don't think the last page made Nick seem stupid or obtuse, he just didn't consider it and that's okay and sweet of him ♥️ He doesn't immediately think "Charlie the super unfit guy is only here for ME because I'm so GREAT" and that's lovely

ucfnurse

Awwwwww sooooo sweet!!!☺️😊🥰😍🧸🎊🎂🔆🥳✨🌹✌️🕊️☮️

James

Wait did CHARLIE always know he didn't really like Rugby? Okay, at the start he must have thought that what he was doing was (to him) an irrational reaction to a crush. But after he realised he was actually good at it, invested time and energy, maybe felt a sense of reward when they won matches, the satisfaction of smashing the 'gay-nerd' stereotype, gaining acceptance from his team-mates. And all the while he was surrounded by this warm fluffy pink cloud that came from doing something with his BOYFRIEND. Maybe he started to believe HIMSELF that he liked Rugby. Now we have older, more confident, more secure Charlie able to look back on things rationally and say "wait a minute..."

And this kinda echos what Nick said in the last chapter the night they had sex for the first time. How he (Nick) would often go along with things because he didn't want to confront the question of what he really liked and who he really was. Charlie's reached a stage of self-confidence and self-awareness where he can be honest with himself about his passions and who he is. The same place Nick needs to (and wiill) get to, only Nick just needs a little more time.

.

nooo please keep it!! i dont think it makes nick look stupid at all! this would’ve happened to me too if it was my boyfriend😭 i think its fair for nick to have never considered that especially since charlie has stayed on the team for so long! he’s such a genuine guy i bet he truly did think charlie had an interest in it besides him being on the team :)

Thomas Baer

I think it's completely believable that Nick didn't realize Charlie joined rugby just because of his crush on him. It's definitely not something Nick realized at the time, and I feel like it's perfectly realistic for him to only now connect the dots when Charlie lays it out for him. Obviously go with whatever you think works best, but I hope you decide to leave it in, because I loved it and thought it was both funny and sweet! ❤️

.
>>149326597

and obviously i don’t know what this volume is going to cover, but i think it might fit into the development nick started last volume with him not knowing who he is without charlie and being more fragile. he doesn’t tend to think of himself above others, so it makes sense for him to not think he’d ever be the sole reason someone would join rugby!

Elspeth Fougere

I can imagine it's the sort of thing that might have been said before but nick didn't quite understand how much it was actually real. Like how much Charlie actually liked him and sacrificed that in order to get to know him. And also after being together for so long, I can imagine them sort of both forgetting about it with everything else that has gone on for them both over a couple of years.. it's like a cute reminder of their beginnings, I can imagine Nick just feeling so secure with Charlie it hasn't really hit him before that they might not have actually got together unless Charlie was that brave!

Mandy Kumler

One thing: the earing is missing again 😉. And I don't think it made Nick seem dumb....I laughed out loud yesterday and said "so adorable" out loud...and then I could picture Kit acting out (if we are lucky enough for a 4th season)

Ania W.

When I saw the page yesterday, I found it humorous and positive. I didn't think Nick was stupid. In fact, what you drew fits these two boys perfectly. In my opinion, Nick didn't even think about why Charlie joined the team. At first he was happy that Charlie was spending time with him. Then he was busy discovering his sexuality, falling in love, coming out and Charlie's illness. I love Nick as he is and as you created him. In fact, these pages are a declaration of love for me.

Jennifer Paddock

I love the last page! Nick is not remotely self-centered so it makes complete sense that he would think Charlie joined the team because he was invited and stayed on because he did well and hanging out with Nick made him fall in love - NOT that Charlie was already crushing before Nick even asked him. I think it's completely in character and doesn't make Nick look stupid at all. 💙

Charles Castleberry

I thought it was totally believable that Nick wouldn't realize that Charlie wasn't really into rugby. It's Nick's passion, and when you really love something, you tend to assume that everyone else sees what's great about it and would naturally be into it too. And I think that's a basic difference between jocks and nerds: even with the best of intentions, jocks get constant feedback that what they love is a default thing that nearly everyone likes, while nerds are used to hearing that their interests are niche (at best) or weird or bad (at worst). So I can easily see Nick assuming that Charlie would *naturally* enjoy rugby, once he got the hang of it. :-)

Carrie Lindley

Just here to give a shout out to the last panel: love how you drew Nick’s arm reaching out towards Charlie. I can almost feel the hand hold there, and I don’t remember seeing that particular perspective in the comic before. Love how you’re always finding new ways to capture Nick and Charlie!

Kirstin Balm

I really like Nick's respons. And I was not really surprised with Nick not realising. Specially since Charlie had returned to rugby and then kept playing, it would make sense to think that it was at least growing on Charlie. It feels like a funny and light conversation that suits them rather well actually, since they've had many "why are we like this" moments 😌😊

Suse

If they have never fully had this conversation, I think it’s reasonable to assume Nick didn’t know Charlie’s internal motives for joining the team. Suspicions? Of course. But it’s different when you actually hear it out loud.

Jennifer Paddock

Had another thought - I experienced this when taking and teaching Literature classes - sometimes readers forget that they see the WHOLE story in an omniscient POV. We've seen Nick and Charlie's story - but we've also seen just Charlie's story and just Nick's story. We're able to see much more than Nick. I'll bet if you go back and only look at panels with Nick in them, his surprise doesn't seem surprising.

Scott Whittall

Oh please do not change it, Alice. I laughed out loud when I saw this today. I mean, Nick was oblivious to Char's crush in the beginning, right? He certainly was not privy to Char's "I love you and want to be with you forever" day dream (although it kinda came true) LOL. Nick really did approach Char to join Rugby because he saw how fast Char could run and they needed an alternate. And it is a mini cliff hanger before you turn the page to see how Nick is really going to react. It is so sweet!

Ania W.

These comic pages are just as sweet and funny as the story about Nick's first day at university. While reading that story, I never thought that Nick was stupid, insecure and addicted to Charlie. I will always think of him as sweetly in love. I've already written that I love your sense of humor. Mainly because when I have a bad day, I come back to these stories and just smile.

Matt G

So I don't keep myself constantly logged in so I didn't see any comments about yesterday's panels (I see updates via my emails lol) but I completely agree with Alice's take on it being a funny thing that Nick just missed, and it still being completely in character. If I may provide some evidence, I'm going back to pages 315-318. While Nick and Charlie are confessing they both like each other, they both are completely shocked to learn that the other was interested in them. Remember that they were still young high schoolers at this time. And at that moment, even though Nick has been given a clear sign that Charlie liked him, he's probably got way too many other thoughts swimming around in his head about his own sexual identity and the road he's going to have to eventually walk. I'm certain his first thought wasn't "Oh THAT'S why Charlie joined rugby". Follow that up with his exams, his concern for Charlie and his mental health struggle, his uni selection, and learning to become someone outside of his relationship? That thought could have passed his brain for sure, but honestly it feels far more organic for Charlie to be the one to tell him that. Anyways thanks for coming to my TEDstopper talk. Obviously, I personally think the scene works as is, but they're not my characters so I don't have much say lol. Alice is the one who gets to decide whether they will change it or not. I appreciate all the work you put into this story Alice and thank you for giving it to us =)

Anna Deligio

I like the idea of Nick being just a little less surprised. Like maybe just a panel with an "Oh!" type expression where the truth clicks for him and then his dialogue is caught up and acknowledges the reality of what Charlie is saying? You are so good at drawing meaning with faces that don't need words, his "Oh! Yeah I can see that now..." could come through clearly in your great facial expressions and then move on.

kitty

I didnt read the comments from the last page but I’m surprised that some people thought Nick came off that way? Or that it wasn’t believable that he wouldnt know Charlie joined bc of his crush for him. It doesnt make Nick come off as dumb! I actually enjoyed that page, of Nick not being aware of his intense effect on Charlie back then. It was cute!! Also while I think it’s okay for readers to give pointers or opinions on your story, I’ve noticed that too many fans suggest you change this and that. It’s Alice’s story and she has to write it how SHE wants to. Otherwise it would be the fans work, not hers. It’s like backseat driving, pls stop

Sheena Markham

Nick isn’t stupid! Naive, maybe. He saw Charlie enjoy rugby for over a year. But he only enjoyed being there because Nick was there. I was in Marching Band because of my boyfriend. No shame! I enjoyed playing the flute and I really enjoyed concert band, but I really enjoyed the long bus rides to competitions with my boyfriend. So of course it LOOKED like I enjoyed it. I am here to justify your actions ALICE!!!!!! You go girl!

Loveislove
>>149318705

💯 percent on all of this. I live in Alice's beautiful world and am appreciative of this patreon community and its inclusiveness and opinions. I am watching Alice's journey for Nick this volume with a lot of trepidation but trust where she is taking this beautiful young man.

Joni

Just my opinion, don’t change it. I thought it was cute and sweet! 😊 I don’t think Nick is stupid, just in love and not thinking too deeply about Charlie’s motives at the time 🥰

Ciara

I think these two pages are very Nick coded. He wouldn’t have known Charlie’s motives before now if it never came up. He did genuinely ask him to join the team because Charlie was fast and Charlie accepted, and it’s all before Nick realised he may be queer so he may have just always assumed Charlie did like rugby to some extent. Plus Charlie rejoined voluntarily so they’d have time together.

Talia Berg

aw i thought the scene was so cute

Benjamin Burke

I didn't think it made Nick seem stupid. I thought it was sweet. It emphasises his altruistic nature. He's too modest to have even entertained the idea that all of Charlie's enthusiasm for Rugby was really enthusiasm for him.

Zachary White

Maybe Nick would know rugby isnt his beloved hobby, but definitely realistic for him not to know that Char already liked him when he joined the team

Bethany

I think Nicks response is great and not dumb at all! He isn’t selfish so doesn’t think people do things just because of him. He’s just so kind and caring. His response was kind of refreshing

Emily Cavender

i think it is definitely believable! this feels very on brand for nick to me.

Elity

Okay, Nick's response was not quite what I was expecting but is so perfect!

Samantha White

I think Nick's cluelessness fits with the way he has discovered that he probably had crushes on boys in the past but didn't realize that is what he was feeling until he figured out that he is bi. Maybe someday it will click for him that he chose to invite Charlie to join rugby because he had a crush on him too.

Matt Leicht

What’s absolutely incredible about you, Alice is how open you are to the fans’ feedback. I love supporting you and seeing how these stories grow and change. I wish I could do more 😂 Either way I loved how you wrote this and the last pages

Nils

I get what you mean. But Nick does have some sort of blind spot where Charlie is concerned. As long as it isn't directly connected to Charlies well being Nick does miss somethings from time to time

emilyemilyemily

no no please! i think it’s believable and i love it so much. there’s always those silly realizations looking back especially in young queer relationships i feel ❤️❤️❤️❤️🥹😩🤩🤩

Timothy Hocum

Oh I would leave it!! I thought it was cute and very much on brand for Nick! He’s not stupid by means, but he can be a bit thick sometimes (relatable). 🤣

Lee Rankins

I thought it was the cutest thing. I wouldn't change a thing about that page.

Ada Suzany

I enjoyed the dialog of this page. Really like it. Have a nice day Alice!!

Rosie Carlisle

Maybe it could be a softer version - Nick thought that maybe *part* of the reason Charlie joining rugby was so they could spend more time together, but didn’t realise it was literally the only reason?

OSM

I like it, Nick isn’t stupid by any means but it is believable that he wouldn’t think that Charlie only joined the team because of him. Because he has very little ego, we’ve got to the point where Charlie is the confident one and he needs to build Nick up

Kat

I’m on team that a little dialogue fix could go a long way. Like maybe if Nick comments somewhere something like “Yeah but that’s not the ONLY reason you joined, is it?” I don’t personally think it’s a huge deal either way (and this may be one of those places where the tv show is impacting our perception, since he and Charlie have that banter in season 2 when Charlie rejoins the team). It might also stick out to people more because we’re getting a page a day and analyzing it relentlessly lol. If you do the dialogue tweak, a little change could shift it from “wow Nick’s a dumbass” to “Nick’s a little clueless but also not full of himself.”

Brenda Seminario

personally i love oblivious Nick because when we have a crush its true sometimes we dont see any clues!!!!

Ali Michelle

Charlie enjoyed it BECAUSE Nick was there. So Nick isn’t wrong to have not fully noticed. Maybe a little wishful thinking on his part. 🥹🥹

Luka Cohn

I think it’s believable! nick seems a very little bit very slightly obtuse when it comes to charlie liking him. i think it shows modesty and the very common ‘does he actually like me though??’ type of concern that everyone feels? so rather than making nick seem dull i think it adds to his likability because he’s not smug about charlie liking him

Rachael Gordon

I think it fits with Nick’s humility. It's why he's so popular and kind. He doesn't have a superego. The joke about it being embarrassing for Charlie sets off any potential implication that Nick isn't sharp. It reminds me of past reflections with a girlfriend and how we laughed and were amazed that we were initially oblivious to fancying each other. It also gives me Jane Austen vibes. Her characters often reflect on their obliviousness at the story's end.

Katie🐝

I think it could be believable!! If you were going to change it, I think the dialogue could stay mostly the same but maybe make nick’s response sarcastic ?? Like “omg what ?? You ?? Have a crush on me??” LOL

Katie🐝

Also the way nicks eyes are literally glowing in the last panel 😭 I love how we’re seeing him reaching for Charlie from Charlie’s POV!! So sweet💓

Hanna Flick

Alice for what it’s worth I don’t think Nick is stupid for not realizing it sooner! I think this response works well. I think Nick always knew it’s just the first time the quiet part was said outloud hahaha. I really like this exchange of “you were never pathetic” 🥹

Flor D. la Peña🍂

For me it makes complete sense that he never realized that and it’s just as funny as it is romantic ❤️

Flor D. la Peña🍂

Besides, Nick not being aware of that it’s the truest representation of the quote “why are we like this?” And we live for that😭💚

river

i thinks it's believable and definitely does not make nick seem stupid, i think it makes sense and it was a really fun page and personally i love it a lot

Glenn Crawford (GraphiqueJack)

My first reaction was like, here comes Thickolas again, being a little obtuse, but it could also be that he just isn’t aware that he’s conventionally attractive and wouldn’t have assumed that Charlie was already attracted to him from the start. I think it’s kind of endearing that he’s a little dim sometimes. Nick is allowed not to be perfect just like Charlie isn’t perfect. Personally, I’d leave it but if you think it’s giving the readers a false sense of what you intended the character to be, the choice is always yours. He’s your creation, not ours.

Zoe Downes

I think this page fits well, when you go back to the beginning I think Nick was a bit pre-occupied by trying to workout his feelings and who he truly was to really see that Charlie was already into him. As someone else said in an earlier comment it fits with their little 'why are we like this' saying x

Ace

Also it's not unrealistic because Nick is an entire teenager -- there are plenty of adults three times his age who would be just as clueless. Ask me how I know!

Effie Kennedy

Noooo don’t change it I love it. I don’t think it makes Nick stupid, I think it’s realistic for his character that he wouldn’t think so much of himself that Charlie would play rugby just for him for so long

MJ

Whenever I've thought of Nick being "slow" to notice something I think its due to him being an earnest and open individual. It's endearing, not a lack of intelligence. Just as Charlie's insecurities made/make it hard for him to see and trust in people's compliments and love for him, Nick sometimes doesn't see things because it's not the way he would do it/see it - so it just didn't occur to him. Example would be, Nick realizing how mean his friends and classmates could be, and becoming so frustrated that they are not inclusive. I think Nick is kind and so his default assumption is others will be kind as well - because of course you would, it's the natural thing to do! He knows logically there are mean people, but didn't expect to find it in so many people close to him. Nick was so upset to realize how uncommon it can be to default to kindness like he and his mum do. (Another reason to love Charlie so much!) Also, Nick saw a real talent in Charlie when he asked him to join the Rugby team! Not to mention, he has always viewed Charlie as out of his league, so it didnt even dawn on him that Charlie joined solely to get close to him, ESPECIALLY since charlie joined the team so early on in their friendship. Nick's viewpoint from that time was all about HIM being drawn to Charlie. On this page- Nick quickly understands what Charlie's telling him and begins teasing him about it. He's not dense! He's just so open and earnest that he hadn't considered Charlie ONLY signed up for him. I do think it's funny and cute to see him have a moment to reframe their *crush* era with this new perspective that Charlie was simping for him!! It's adorable and very Nick and Charlie 🥰 Nick deserves to feel simped on too! It tracks with his golden retriever vibes That's my take - but you do what feels true to you and your characters 🥰🥰 I adore them!!

MJ
>>149346387

Totally wishful thinking hahaha oh nick 🥰🥰

MJ

I adore Nick having his moment here to feel loved and tease Charlie 🥰🥰🥰

Timothy Hocum
>>149340215

I love it! It’s charming, cute, and endearing when he has these moments!! ❤️ Just adds to how freakin adorable they are!! 😭😍🥰

Murgy

It seems part of the issue is we didn't have this part immediately afterwards, we got it a day before the follow on. Being surprised Charlie only joined the team because of a crush isn't unrealistic, because how many people would assume someone joined something because of a crush, especially when they keep at it and are enjoying it. I'd have been caught out if it happened to me. Nick might have taken Charlie joining the rugby team for rhe love of rugby as a given, but it doesn't make him stupid.

Hearting_Hobi

I love that he didn’t realize! Part of it is I find it adorable that he didn’t realize Charlie liked him even that far back. But the other part is Nick has such a pure love for rugby that of course he would think that others must enjoy it just as much. It makes him endearing ❤️

Vicki Lewis

I think you should keep it, it shows he’s modest and very sweet but not stupid. I love his little moments like this. 🫶🏻

Hannah

I like it! I think it’s almost more mature to not get upset about the past yk? A growth moment

Sarah Duzynski

I don't think Nick comes across as stupid for not realizing that Charlie only joined the rugby team because he had a crush on him. I loved yesterday's page since it made me laugh. I definitely think it is a funny and sweet revelation for them. Sometimes people don't realize something that may be obvious to others. It is part of being human and I think it makes Nick and Charlie more real. I think you should leave the pages as they are for the sweetness and humor.

Megan

I personally thought yesterday's and today's pages were absolutely ADORABLE! Nick is far from stupid and I would counter that this revelation only highlights how unassuming and sweet he is which is, in my opinion, completely in keeping with his character. It's more of a revelation of just HOW LONG Charlie has liked him for. Nick was delightfully surprised and happy and excited when Tao revealed on the school bus during the Paris trip in Volume 3 that Charlie's crush on Nick was "extreme", even going so far as to say it was "twilight levels of pining" (lol!) so he knew that Charlie had been crushing on him at some point in the lead up to their first kiss but he didn't realise that he'd had a crush on him within just a month of them first meeting! That's so adorable! I'd almost love the scene to go on just a smidge longer where Nick teases Charlie back and says if he'd had even an inkling that Charlie liked him that much back then, then maybe he would have been less subtle about wanting to hang out with him more instead of just asking him to join the rugby team initially. And this of course would shock and delight Charlie in equal measure to realise that Nick was really asking him to join the rugby team because he just wanted to spend time with him, not just because he thought he was really good at running. (And obviously Nick thinks Charlie is the most amazing person in the whole world so he'd assure Charlie that obviously he's brilliant at running and he always believed he could be good at rugby but that his eagerness to hang out with him more was his main motivation for asking him to join the rugby team.) I think it would be so cute for Charlie to realise that Nick wanted to spend time with him just as much as Charlie did him before they even got together, because Charlie is also very unassuming when it comes to Nick. And I think it would be cute for Nick to realise out loud (with Charlie) that he liked Charlie way back then, he just didn't understand those feelings at the time at first. And it ultimately could lead to a really sweet and iconic "why are we like this?" moment. <3 I absolutely love these pages but Alice you are amazing and I know whatever decision you choose to make regarding these pages will be the right one and we will love them. <3 (P.S. If you've made it to the end of this comment I am deeply apologetic and grateful in equal measure.) <3

Kadi Wood

I absolutely loved it!! I think it’s more along the lines of “I never specifically thought about it” than Nick not really knowing it

Lodge

all I know is, that horse is about to crash face-first onto the floor, and he looks annoyed about it. 😁

Jess

I think it doesn’t feel believable to me that after all this time he wouldn’t know that Charlie doesn’t actually like playing rugby! I can see him not putting it together about the crush but I just don’t quite see how it would never have come up that rugby isn’t an activity he enjoys. Loving everything and just dropping my thoughts here!!

Marine 🍂

I don't agree. My ex never knew i joined his hobbies to be closed to him. It never crossed his mind. A lot of men are like this, they don't get this kind of things...

Loveislove
>>149319167

These are great points about Charlie's perspectives. I think he comes from a place pure of heart, as always. I think Alice is on the verge of explaining his relationship to rugby. I just feel very protective of Nick and hope to see some of Charlie's support on him soon.

Krystyn

I found that it was adorable. I think it shows Nick’s insecurities, he simply didn’t imagine that someone like Charlie would do something just to be with him. I like that Nick and Charlie are vulnerable in different ways.

DogBefriender22
>>149319167

Totally agree. I also feel very protective of Nick - he literally changed my life! I really relate to Nick, more than any other character and see a lot of myself in him - I really do feel for him ❤️

Dan

I think its adorable, I don't think you should change it. i love how surprised nick is!

Sarah

If you wanted to rework the dialogue at all (and I don’t necessarily think you need to. Nick does come off as a little dense but in a funny/cute way) it might feel more realistic for the revelation to be that Charlie is still only on the team for Nick. Like Nick might get that it started from a crush perspective but assumed Charlie must genuinely enjoy it if he sticks around. It didn’t occur to him that it was really just to spend time with him.

ash furphy

I think it’s perfect! No need to change anything Alice!!

Oliver Midson

My boyfriend and I had a chat about this and he said “Nick’s not being obtuse, he’s just being a teenage boy!” At the end of the day it’s very cute

Elora (EeveeCollectorElora)

Maybe just an additional dialogue that Nick kinda knew but didn’t think it was the ONLY reason - like it influenced Charlie’s decision but he thought he was interested enough anyway?

Heather Wedgwood

I think it's makes sense for Nick to not realize! It's a cute moment. And Charlie did seem to enjoy himself on the rugby field; Nick might not realize that was because he was there.

Jenna Susannah

don't change it, it's such a hilarious detail!!!! of course Nick would never notice

Andreas hansson

Agree with everyone else — this is so cute and spot on for the characters ❤️ Love this comic so much.

Karolina Prasad

Nick was so busy trying to understand his own emotions, of course he may have missed that Charlie’s crush on him started so early.

Neenie

Seriously, look at Charlie now. And the banter!!