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audio for this post available here.

photo from paul sermon's telematic dreaming 

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we are two abysses – a well staring at the sky.fernando pessoa

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in my career two people have thought I was sending them secret messages through my poems. this is funny to me, because, you know, what a coincidence. both of you? when it happened the second time I wondered if it wasn’t them with the problem, but me, unintentionally writing in code or just in a wired schizophrenic way that attracted them like the artificial moonlight of a bug zapper. both fellas messaged me on and off for years. one made muddled allusions to scripture and greek myth and feared for my safety with an eerie graveness, like a ‘word of advice’ from a spooky butler; the other was very interested in the alignment of the planets at the time of my birth and liked to relate what I did and said online to their transit through space. both spoke to me with the familiarity of a friend, or a lover. I never said a word to them. one came to see me on tour; I recognized him. during their active years I joked with friends that I should introduce them to each other as an experiment, or tell them I had indeed left messages for one but not the other and together they would need to figure out which is which (forgive me this cruelty! – it made me less afraid (if you’re here, sorry, lads – I hope you’re doing better)). all – truly, all – of my female writer friends have stories like this, most of them worse. s.s.’s stalker found her on vacation. r.m.’s is now known to the police but hangs in that judicial timewarp-logic purgatory whereby no one can’t act until he ‘does something’. it took us all time to stop thinking of this dark attention as something we caused or brought about by being a certain way. now we know it has nothing to do with us. to be known by strangers is to be an avatar, a prism through which other people’s searching light is thrown.

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I expect we’ll need to talk about parasociality more as the limbo pole which signifies ‘celebrity’ inches lower and people grow more lonely (and what do we call a relationship with a, by nature, nonreciprocal AI?). if you were a burgeoning youtube personality in the early 2010s parasocial was a new and useful term to have in your back pocket, when children idolized children and none of the children knew how to act, especially me, who found myself anxious and imbued with a power I didn’t want, like every time I’ve ever driven a car. by the time I was twenty I was a ‘minor’ ‘youtube’ ‘celebrity’ and my fanbase was comprised almost completely of teenagers, so it felt enormous, all that energy. at my most undiscerning I let hundreds of god’s creatures wait in line to meet me at an event. they wanted to touch me. they wanted a picture. they gave me trinkets, letters, drawings of my face. this is in some ways an incredible earth honor, to be treated like a living altar, to be paid any attention by anyone for any amount of time at all. but I hated the experience. this act that I thought would at least be maybe charitable left me without any satisfaction, only a feeling of having made the world worse.

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here’s some information: before I was someone anyone wanted to know, I was fourteen years old and possessed with love for a youtuber. he was older than me and lived in another country. he was sort of dorky, twig-armed and anemic, interested in niche online subcultures – all traits I had that made me undesirable. but on him they were attractive, or at least tolerable enough to garner him a level of adoring social currency reserved only for the very beautiful. my affection for this person was debilitating. it sat heavy in my body, like a sickness. among my favorite hobbies was collecting personal information about him and memorizing it. when I was bored in class, which was every moment of class, I liked to imagine him watching me – not at the window but metaphysically, like god, or santa claus – and pitying me, thinking poor girl, poor special girl, sitting there, wasting time, and this gave my suffering meaning, and therefore purpose. as I floated around the sterile fuzz of midwestern suburbia, walked into strip malls, walked out of strip malls, I was comforted by thoughts of him in the beautiful town from his videos, his world so dimensionally separate from mine. for a time the pocket of my mind where I stored his transmission was the only glimmer in my life.

vidcon was a youtube convention in anaheim, california (it still exists, but not as I knew it). in its second year of existence my dad took me, not knowing really what it was or what was going on, just that it was important to me (an act of mercy I will be grateful for forever). friends I met online were there, exciting in their own right; so was my special youtuber. from the time we arrived I felt his presence there as an electricity, an earthly force, my heart crackling like a geiger counter. I made sure I looked perfect the entire weekend in case he appeared somewhere unexpected (a pre-event hygiene list I’d made included points like ‘cut toenails’ and ‘clean belly button’ as though anyone would see either of those body parts (okay, I didn’t think anyone would, it was just to be safe)). his meet and greet was on the last day of the event. like many fallen sisters before me and many others after, I thought that if him and I were to make eye contact, even among this conveyer belt of admirers, I would leave an impression on him so profound so as to supercede all those before and after, those pretenders, those fakes, with their merch and their tears, not me; I would be cool and unmoved by his cult celebrity which would reveal how mature I was for my age, making me the most desirable child in line, and he would have to have me . . . and the fantasy trailed off, because what was important wasn’t this person but . . . something else. I had crested over the glossy event horizon of the hyperreal.

at the beginning of the meet-and-greet line it was like . . . I don’t know, there he was. to see him from afar, a sort of animatronic of himself, let me peer through the fantasy’s blinds and find the real world: no matter what happened here there was no path to satisfaction. he, as I loved him, didn’t exist. everything I wanted churned inside the fantasy only. so I didn’t meet him! genuinely, I left! good girl! after this experience that dark and desperate energy towards the youtuber went away, and from then on I’ve been a little repulsed by all celebrity and the impossible equation it presents, aware its dissatisfaction is a feature, not a bug. (years later, as things happen, this person and I became friendly acquaintances. I don’t know if we could have ever been real friends. I will know what his favorite movie was when he was 19 and his blood type forever.)

this is a common teenage-girl-style parasociality: extreme and passionate but largely ‘harmless’, trying on lust like a feather boa, practicing at womanhood, compensating for boredom, understimulation, lack of romantic interest from anyone with touchable skin. it was sort of sexual and sort of not, like making dolls fuck. in this way my fixation was ‘normal’ and ‘healthy’. but running underneath this story was my desperate unhappiness. I was starving myself, for one. I slept with my thighs cocooned in plastic wrap, hoping to get dissolved. afraid of knives, I scratched myself with pens until I bled. hundreds of times did I post pictures of myself on yahoo answers tacked with the question ‘is this girl pretty?’. the tears, the tears, the tears. my one-sided affection’s intensity was only allowed to grow because of the damp and the dark of my loneliness. the youtuber became not a person but a path out of my insecurity, a vessel to hold the love I wanted to give, but no one wanted from me.

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if my friends and I went to dinner with our stalkers we might leave with fewer stalkers. if one of my ‘fans’ could have seen me vomiting, or shitting, or scraping plaque from my teeth with a safety pin, or being rude to a stranger, or giving a bad group presentation, or arguing with my mom, or crying at a pap smear, they would have discovered it wasn’t me who overwhelmed them, or any alleged exceptionality I held within me; it was their own psychic links attached to their notion of me, remembering the dark nights they soothed themselves using me and the relief that followed, the calm they found wearing my face. there was no point in sharing with me this private world they created in my image: it wasn’t for me: I could never go.

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where we spend our attention reveals who we are. if a significant portion goes towards one stranger with strong feelings in tow, there’s information to be gleaned by isolating these feelings and moving them to a curious and non-judgemental desert in one’s mind to see what they really are. an object of idolatry, we can assume, represents a lack one feels in oneself: this person is more beautiful, more confident, more talented, whatever. a negative parasocial relationship, too, reveals a similar motive. when someone annoys us it’s not a proper conclusion that the person is objectively annoying; rather, something in us is annoyed. when I can sense from a public figure that they care about trying to come across as very clever, I'm pricked with dislike for them – but I can recognize it’s not because this person's badness is written in the stars but because they are a mirror. I dislike them because they remind me of the hate I quietly harbor for parts of myself. to encounter them casts a spotlight on the small child-me in my mind, slumped over at the microphone, finally given the chance to speak but having nothing to say, stupid, stupid. I know when anyone publicly expresses dislike for me they’re experiencing something like this and so I’m sympathetic. so much of life returns here: hatred comes from insecurity which comes from fear which comes from pain. many of us aren’t given the tools to move past ‘hatred’. but when the curious follow these roots into their past, through their subconscious, they land at a cool, quiet stream.

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artists are the messengers of their work, not the message.

the young, the very lonely, the unwell: profitable demographics.

parasociality plays a comparable sociological hand to monarchism, or religion. but we know those idols to be symbols, and these are men, just men, and these symbols-which-we-can't-see-are-symbols, then, are used to fill voids in the self which are not symbolic: space we hold for connection, and touch, and true intimacy with other creatures. in this way the soul is eroded.

there is no hierarchy. there never was. for now everywhere there are people all facing one way. a crowd of abysses gawp at another abyss.

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Comments

Ronaldo Knorich

Really liked this one, I question myself a lot what are idols if not what we think we lack?

Daniel Shaul

People projecting life into not-people in the hopes wishes might animate and fill hallow chasms or close aching wounds. What fun.

Vio Cooper

this makes some really good points about the concept of idols which i've been questioning a lot lately especially in connection to idols being a secular replacement for the mindless devotion of religion

aleah

while my friend and i split a bottle of wine last night we had a similar conversation and i literally said to him, "everyone is a mirror." loved reading this

Toby

Holy shit, these are the exact themes, primarily being parasociality, that I've been anticipating from you in this exact format. The answers to the lingering question lie within as I absorb this. Thank you.

savannah brown

did you ask about it on google form? i remember someone did hahah

The String Puppet Workshop (edited)

Comment edits

2026-09-07 20:00 This is why I thank the heavens I'm the INTJ type 5 wing 4 that is obsessed with logic and objective reasoning. This is what's immunized me to the whole "parasocial" unwholesomeness so many experience. Do I feel I relate to you as a creator? Honestly, yes but is that strange? Not really. Us artsy, poetic, deep thinking, philosophical, highly intelligent types have similar experiences, perspectives, and personality traits and hanging out with many like me in art school has taught me just that. People are neither exclusively individual or exclusively collective in their ways of being. Rather, we seem to be a mid-way cross between the two contrary to what modern dogmas suggest. Thus, there are "types" of people and "creative" is one of those types. Have I ever wanted to make art based on you? Oh, absolutely. Does that mean I idolize you? As interesting as you are, not particularly. I understand that you're just a human and the idea for the art that I have in my head is merely an ideal. The whole point of creating art for me is to create something that doesn't truly exist as a means to express my dissastifaction with the world. However, I'm not solipsistic and am capable of separating the two. Did I want to meet you in person at one of your meet ups? Well, yeah, sure? Was I going to be weird about it? No. I tend to default to business-like professionalism when it comes to meeting new people. That being said, I simply do not understand the whole parasocial relationship thing. Despite the fact that I want to do many of the same things as these people I'm still sane and respectful of boundaries about it. I wasn't always this wholesome but when I wasn't I tended to be more resistant towards people - misanthropy, hatred for the human race and even internalized hatred for being human. Hatred for the times and feeling like I was born in the wrong age and underneath it all frightened for the state of the future and desperately screeching to the ethers hoping something will hear me and turn off the insanity, returning the social consensus to the freethinking rationality of the late 90's and early 2000's. I guess what these people need is to heal and this need is slowly what is edging me back into being a content creator. The science of influencer fame has already been figured out and all I have to do is follow "the rules", make aesthetic, prettified videos and I can get big. After I earn my audience then I can start driving my own messages into my channel and if there are already going to be dysfunctional people watching me then maybe I can use Jedi-mind tricks in videos to help them heal unwittingly. After all, the more unwholesome, the more obsessively they watch my videos. The more obsessively they watch my videos the more Jedi-mind tricks get played on them. The more Jedi-mind tricks get played on them the more they heal.
2024-01-20 20:18

Toby

Yeah that was most likely me lol. Even if this wasn't an intentional response at all and just a funny coincidence, this is THE ideal answer and what I needed for my introspectiveness regarding parasociality so thank you again.

Costanza Polastri

v cool essay good job it's also very interesting how folks will use the concept of parasociality as a meme, one of my followers told me the other day "not to be parasocial but i love you" i thought that's hilarious. it's almost as if there's a tiny version of me in their head that watches what they do and say. i think the first time i spoke about parasociality with my audience, i was hoping that it would lead them to delete this version of me in their head (impossible) but it just led to them updating it, giving to this character a weird new word to use. also, can confirm women online have stalkers and the cops do nothing abt it lol

Valerie M

every time i read your writing it leaves me in awe for some reason or another, and i enjoy being a patron of yours very much. i truly do mean this in the least parasocial way possible, no false idols here!

Uproote

This one should definitely be a video.

Franz Wollang

I know this is a bit pedantic and you said a lot more than just this reference, but please don't perpetuate Myers-Briggs archetypes. It is a very old system and has lots of issues. Please refer to OCEAN or HEXACO if you want to include more psychometrically valid measures of personality in conversations.

palex

great piece, just wanted give appreciation to the liberal use of (nested!) parentheses, they're the best

Black_Cat

I love this, so good

Galactic Beyond

(Still shaking off this hangover; but figured I'd offer a longer (time-wise) perspective "from the (metaphorical) crowd" as a complement to our host's perspective) I have been alive for as long as the Soviet Union has been dead, which means that I grew up around people of various ages who have seen the world change in various ways, and that I have also seen some changes first hand. For example, I remember a world without smartphones very well -- and I remember Web 1.0 (the web before facebook and youtube and so on). It was an era where most people with a computer preferred to play games, instead of watching videos of other people play them. In this era (which definitely ended around 2011, but the phase-transition could be felt as early as 2004), netizens could be placed in one of 3 dominant categories: writer, reader, or pen-pal. Oh, and hacker -- back then we were a much larger proportion of the internet-population. Back then, it used to be said, that "yesterday's corporate computers are today's consumer computers" -- something that has changed ever since smartphones, tablets, and laptops became the primary consumer computers (in fact, I saw no reason to get a laptop until 2011). Anyway, this kind of device-driven shift in internet-demography built an internet in which there was no easy way to move from the role of passive consumer of technology to active developer of technology (the hackers would end up building cool, expensive toys for rich people, instead of for themselves, and in many cases would help them figure out ever more efficient ways to exploit... well, everyone else (but especially the lonely, unwell, vulnerable)). To illustrate the point, in Web-1.0, we had pornography, but we did not have OF or cam-sites. Think about that: we went from an era where people could gradually move -- through their own interest and volition -- from gamer to amateur programmer or to amateur mathematician, to an era where people can now gradually move from gamer (or whatever kids do these days -- and yes, everyone under 25 looks like a kid to me), to amateur pornographer. I'm not some old fuddy-duddy, I have nothing against pornography -- I just find it sad that the internet went from something that could _actually_ make dreams come true, into something that could tempt millions of people to give up on those same dreams. It's not just a matter of _exploiting_ the lonely, unwell, and vulnerable, but also a matter of _multiplying_ their numbers. Every distillery and pharmaceutical company tacitly understands this. Hacker, writer, pen-pal, reader -- a kind of social-class-pyramid of some now-extinct civilization. As far as I can tell, we now have three main classes of people on the 'net: spectator, digital-landlord (in the old manor-and-serfs sense), and circus-performer. A smartphone in every pocket -- a once-future that held so much hope and promise. We never would have guessed that this would mean a circus in every pocket, at all times. We have become so thoroughly conditioned and infected by this infinite, never-ending carnival, that we expect our titans of industry and public servants to behave like clowns and circus-freaks as well. But there is a silver lining, maybe even a glimmer of hope: I see more people than ever transforming from passive consumer to amateur writer (this path was either unavailable on the internet that I grew up on, or it was so dimly lit, that I drove right past it, and followed a bunch of other cars to hacker-ville) -- and sometimes, like our host, from amateur to professional. As they say, clear thinking comes from clear writing. I'm not saying it is a solution, but places like this Patreon are a step in the right direction. A kind of botanical garden away from a growing and increasingly wild wilderness. Maybe, if enough of these pop up, we can reverse the trend, reclaim some of the wilderness, or -- failing that -- perhaps starve it, or burn it down.

serrap

This piece is excellent and deserves a wider audience. Reading through it, I felt a genuine shift in perspective about how parasocial relationships arise and it made me reflect on how I engage with content. Perhaps I'm overly optimistic in thinking that reading an account like this could inoculate people against the more pernicious forms of parasociality, but it can't hurt. The discussed mismatch between reality and our idealised perceptions (plus the mention of hyperreality) brings to mind Borges' analogy of the map and territory: "…In that Empire, the Art of Cartography attained such Perfection that the map of a single Province occupied the entirety of a City, and the map of the Empire, the entirety of a Province. In time, those Unconscionable Maps no longer satisfied, and the Cartographers Guilds struck a Map of the Empire whose size was that of the Empire, and which coincided point for point with it. The following Generations, who were not so fond of the Study of Cartography as their Forebears had been, saw that that vast Map was Useless, and not without some Pitilessness was it, that they delivered it up to the Inclemencies of Sun and Winters. In the Deserts of the West, still today, there are Tattered Ruins of that Map, inhabited by Animals and Beggars; in all the Land there is no other Relic of the Disciplines of Geography." - Jorge Luis Borges, On Exactitude in Science (https://kwarc.info/teaching/TDM/Borges.pdf) We often create elaborate mental 'maps' of others, especially within fandoms, which grow beyond reality and become distorted over time. Eventually, we are left alone in the remnants of these overgrown perceptions. --- The comment on the nonreciprocal nature of relationships with AI knocked loose a thought that I've been ruminating on this week. To answer a rhetorical question: I would probably call this a "simulated interactive relationship". We're starting to see some interesting research on the topic, pointing at potential mental health benefits to AI companions like Replika (Loneliness and suicide mitigation for students using GPT3-enabled chatbots - https://www.nature.com/articles/s44184-023-00047-6). So what do we make of this? These (generative) AI models are of course still machines without emotions or consciousness - and there is danger in anthropomorphising them - but they do have complex internal states that are updated in rich and non-trivial ways by conversing with them. In a sense - and I imagine quite a controversial one - these simulated interactive relationships have more reciprocity - albeit asymmetric - than a conventional parasocial one. At their best, I'd see these companions as something like a diary that can talk back. The map is not the territory, and the territory might live on a hard drive in an Amazon server farm, communicating with you across hundreds of miles via pulses of light and radio waves, but at least there's something there.

Teageen

"I know when anyone publicly expresses dislike for me they’re experiencing something like this and so I’m sympathetic. so much of life returns here: hatred comes from insecurity which comes from fear which comes from pain." This concept has popped up a couple times in the last couple days for me. So it's interesting to see it here, on a patreon that I joined on an uncharacteristically spontaneous whim, immediately after watching just one video (which was linked to on CJ the X's patreon). I really like it here so far. It's strangely and refreshingly both casual and profound. Like having a fulfilling conversation with an old (or future) close friend at 4 am. It's strange to navigate spaces like this. (Especially as someone who has experienced the "more intimate" patreon-only work significantly more than the public facing work because of the way I joined so immediately.) Where is the line between unhealthy parasocial relationship and treating an artist as just another human person? There is probably (definitely) a lot of discourse about it that I haven't encountered yet. I haven't really tried to find The Answer TM to this question for myself yet. Hopefully that's ok. There's so many things to think about and no one can get to all of them. It popped up in an episode of the We Can Do Hard Things (ep 288) podcast. And then immediately in a "wisdom card" I pulled from my sister's "weird" Australian Wildlife Wisdom cards by Trevor and Susan O'Sullivan (which I've been pulling from more and more lately as I've given myself permission to just be a "silly" animal in a crazy world where things don't always need to "make sense".) seeking a guide post for what to take from that dense and rich podcast episode. Being new here, and new to Sav's content in general, I'm not sure what the general feeling towards any given spiritual or philosophical ideals are. And it really doesn't matter, probably?, what "internet strangers" think of me. (Except that the people here seem interesting and cool and I'm afraid, in typical human fashion, to be immediately cast out or seen as a fool). But I feel weird about misrepresenting myself? and also weird about trying to explain myself? (and my new found, ~nuanced~ metaphysical ideas 🙄🤦‍♀️😅😂) I'm not accustomed to interacting on the Internet anymore. I just saw the word "based" used "in the wild" earlier today. 😅 I'm not aware of the faux paus (even, for example, immediately stressing "do I need to Google how to spell this before I post a comment so I don't seem intellectually inferior? Or will people here get the gist and call it good enough?") of current Internet interactions. 😬 Is it the autisticness? Is it that I haven't used social media since like 2017? Something else entirely? Who can say. Being genuine feels poser-y, and trying to be more socially curated feels like a lie. 🤷‍♀️