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Study 008 - Desertion (Patreon)

Published:
2022-08-25 14:00:06
Imported:
2026-06
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We're plugging into alien bodies and exploring Desertion by Clifford Simak - transform and join us!

Special thanks to reader Grahm Eberhardt of Mayhem Lettuce!

Next up: Extra Credit on Alice's Wonderlands!

Comments

Mandy Reznor (She/It)

Ahh, pantropy, one of my dearest sci-fi loves. At its mildest it opens up ideas of seeing reality from entirely new perspectives—new senses, new colors, new emotions—instead of being trapped in this single decaying eidolon of human biomass. At its most extreme it devolves into a biopunk delirium of Cronenburgian fleshscapes and the elegance of Gigerian biomechanics. The notion reminds me of a personal quirk; whenever I watch John Carpenter's The Thing, the titular antagonist does not fill me with horror, but envy. I'd like to be anything—I'd like to be *everything*—precisely so that so many environments would welcome me and so many new experiences and sensations would be accessible to me. ...It's possible this urge is a function of dysphoria, but I don't rightly care either way. Anyway, this is a lovely story. The pantropy is the main dish, with a delectable side of "What if you could talk to your pet and be bros with them?"

Jason Thompson

Too bad the title gives it away! 😂

Erik Sieurin

Love me some Cliff! I'm mostly familiar with his oddly pastoral stories and its good to hear something else.

Ben Gilbert

Poul Anderson’s “Call Me Joe” from 1957 is perhaps a closer match to Avatar. A wheel-chair bound scientist projects his mind into a creature especially designed to explore Jupiter. However the main plot of the movie is from Ursula K. Le Guin’s “The Word for World is Forest.”

Mark Simmons

I defer to others when it comes to the historical investigation of pantropy, but I was pleased by the Olaf Stapledon shout-out. He might actually be a good subject for a multi-week Strange Study - I think Stapledon may be the closest sci-fi equivalent to William Hope Hodgson. Keep up the awesome work, and the provocative commenting!

Mandy Reznor (She/It)

Also, you gents should probably cover some James Blish pantropy fiction. Though I've read but one such tale—named "Watershed"—it's one I'd recommend.

Mandy Reznor (She/It)

Oh, one last thought on a re-listen. While the ol' "10% of the brain canard" is laughable bunk these days, I can think of a (possibly) plausible xenobiological explanation for their increased intelligence. Jupiter is a dense atmosphere of liquid metals and similarly improbable things, so what if the lopers have—in place of the wet electricity of synapse and nerve—some kind of superconducting web running through them? Such would also permit the kind of heightened electro- or magnetoreception one would need to emulate psionics the practical way. It's an interesting thought, if not a very relevant one—more useful if one wanted to adapt and update the tale, perhaps.

It's a Ghost.

Desertion, or Boys go to Jupiter to get less stupider

Forrest Rush

Second any Blish pantropy tales. Love'em.

Karlandos

What a fascinating concept. I’ve been particularly interested n this sort of thing and reminded me of the game Eclipse Phase

Steve

For Jupiter, just read "Europa, moon of Jupiter".

Steve

The latest 10% of the brain outing is Lucy, "The average person uses 10% of their brain capacity. Imagine what she could do with 100%.", Luc Besson's voyeuristic Scarlett Johansson vehicle.

Steve

Simak certainly liked his dogs. The first lines of the preface to the novel City (which includes Desertion) are: These are the stories that the Dogs tell when the fires burn high and the wind is from the north. Then each family circle gathers at the hearthstone and the pups sit silently and listen and when the story's done they ask many questions: "What is Man?" they'll ask. Or perhaps: "What is a city?" Or: "What is a war?"

Ethan Cordray

I get the whole, "I don't wanna go back to being a man" thing -- but what about the prospect of helping all those other poor men (and dogs!) find the new joy and excitement of this better life? Why do Towser and Fowler only think about themselves? Has this amazing enlightenment also made them completely selfish? Apparently that idea had to wait until the sequel, I guess. That quotation you read does make me think that the author did think through that question pretty complexly, eventually. This was a great story, and I'm glad you shared it!

Thunk

No-one seems to think it's worth turning someone into a Jovian lizard thing, then back again to find out what it's like. But most importantly, Miss Stanley should be played by Sigourney Weaver

Thunk

I use 11% of my brain. It's one smarter.

Jim Cannon

Because I always have to bring it back to RPGs, back in the lare 80s TSR produced a Buck Rogers game that ran like modded D&D; it was set only within the solar system and all of the "aliens" were genetically modified humans, with bodies designed for the swamps of Venus or emptiness of the Kuiper belt or what have you. The most alien were the Jovians; 12 foot tall bug people who could not live in any other environment (and, if memory serves, the game acknowledged the lack of any actual surface on Jupiter). I have to presume this story and/or its sequel had significant influence on that part of the game.

Jim Cannon

Jupiter is most definitely NOT a Class M planet... now where is the song for that?

Adequately Excellent Entertainment

As somebody who’s had gastric bypass surgery, I’m super pleased to inform you that we can already change how our bodies function and sometimes it even works!

Jeremy Impson

I'd like to propose a new rule for the new show: Chad and Chris have to tell us how they'd cast the characters *when the character is introduced*. Telling me halfway through that Chris imagined Miss Stanley as played by Grace Jones forced me to go back and relisten.

Alec

You guys were right that Jupiter isn’t really suitable for conventional settlement. Not only does it lack a solid surface, but the high temperature hydrogen atmosphere makes any kind of balloon difficult to imagine (hydrogen isn’t a lifting gas there, so you’d need a hot air balloon). You’d end up needing a nuclear airframe like a ramjet or something. You guys might find NASA’s HAVOC program interesting, which envisions Venusian settlement using re-entry vessels transitioning straight to dirigibles without ever touching the lethal ground and lower atmosphere.

Joshua Weiss

That was a really great story. After 13 years of HPLLP, I was expecting something horrible. At first, I thought there would be creatures from Jupiter that must be hunted lest they eat all of the Earthlings. After the transformation, I was sure we would get something like The Fly. Then, Fowler and Towser's expanded senses and consciousness put me in mind of From Beyond. Finally, we got a version of "A Man and His Dog Go To Heaven," a glurge which my dad forwarded to me multiple times back when that was a thing. This story just kept pulling the rug, and I'm delighted with where we ended up. As an aside, there is at least one Space Werewolf in pop culture-- John Jameson (son of J. Jonah Jameson, editor of the Daily Bugle and Spider-Man's nemesis) was turned into the Man Wolf thanks to a mysterious gemstone he picked up on the moon.

DR

I knew this sounded familiar and once it got to the dog being transformed on Jupiter it clicked. The City that has this as part of one big story is amazing and melancholy. It could be seen as a post apocalypse but one without any destruction. The people either change, leave or retreat into cryo stasis dreaming or not dreaming if they choose forever. Also dogs get robot limbs and become intelligent enough to build spaceships and then do the same for other animals. The book starts at the end and then tells how things got this way so its not a spoiler. Theres an epilogue story with ants that is left out of some editions that is great too. I think you would like the other stories in the book if you liked this.

Cacodaemoniacal

Younger me was more appalled that the man would desert his duty (but was glad he took the dog). Older me understands, but sees all the science that had to be left out in order for the story to have its punch.

Andrew Brown

So I realized a few things when I heard this... One: Man I've read a lot of books/stories. Two: I read this years ago and It always stuck with me! Three: Modern SF/F is so bankrupt so often - it just doesn't seem to address big issues. Four: I'm also cherry picking older stories. BUT I will stick with my statement in three, I do think SF/F used to be much more about big questions and not just furry sex in space

Forrest Rush

I am sorry to strongly disagree that sci/f was better in the good ole days. I think it is a matter that pearls rise above the muck and that’s what we remember if we’re old enough or all that we partake of when younger and exploring the past. Furthermore, I’ve always believed this applies to basically everything, but especially to all forms of art. For every mind-blowing thought-provoking story of an Asimov, Clarke, Bradbury, Heinlein, Herbert, etc. there was an overwhelming amount of Buck Rogers rip-offs fighting big-headed aliens who just wanted our women. Check out the slop that L. Ron Hubbard was churning out till he realized he’d make more as a con artist. Have a look at those pdfs of Weird Tales and whatnot with the Lovecraft or CAS stories in them. Their tales’ brilliance and originality so outshine virtually every other submission which are more often than not just another traditional monster mash hoedown. We don’t read those anymore. I agree that Star Wars did much to dumb down scif ( yes, yes, I enjoy the space wizards too,), but as so many, including Lucas have noted, it borrows so heavily from Dune and other space opera, just minus the thought-provoking stuff. This is not to say that there isn’t a lot that is problematic in Dune or Stranger in a Strange Land or other seminal works of the past, but they still explore themes and issues that cute lost blonde orphan/chosen one with major daddy issues just can’t. However, I sincerely believe there are great works of scif/f and horror of today and more being writtene.g. The Three-Body Problem. It just takes a lot of garbage to get the little bits of greatness. I think this is the essential human quandry. We strive to create, butmostly what we do isn't worth the effort except perhaps to the creator. But sometimes, lightning is captured, so all the seemingly pointless effort is actually worth it.

Sludgecrawler

Sci-fi stuff this reminds me of (mostly because I saw it recently and it's also set in an environment hostile to humans): "Prospect" A tense, to-the-point and just really great film.

Derek Benson

I loved this one. Simak's book "Way Station" has always been one of my favorites, and his stories tend to feel like the sci-fi episodes of the Andy Griffith Show. Simak respected people. Dogs too.

Innsmouth Gold

What a great story, it really went in a direction I wasn't expecting! And who could resist a talking dog, especially the owner of a year old half-greyhound half-spaniel lunatic called Buster... Loving the new direction, great to be discovering more unfamiliar authors!

Viking Guitar

Regarding the "we've sent in a team and they vanished/died/met some horrible fate, so now we're sending you" trope, there's an intro to a textbook on "Thermodynamics and Statistical Mechanics" that is wonderfully omnious in the same way: "Ludwig Boltzmann, who spent much of his life studying statistical mechanics, died in 1906, by his own hand. Paul Ehrenfest, carrying on his work, died similarly in 1933. Now it is our turn to study statistical mechanics." On a separate note, the movie "The Lobster" employs a similar plot mechanic about people getting changed into animals, and similarly doesn't describe the process at all. It's a really unique movie, and the transformation process is treated with a lot of foreboding and mystery.

Z.A. Kahan

The story very much puts me in mind of “Man Plus” by Frederik Pohl. Similar body morphing issues, made much more personal. The body shifting is the focus, questioning what makes us human.

David Smith

Hey Chad any chance getting the soundtrack to the show on Spotify with the updated new tracks I would listen the hell out of them!!

Captain Jack Santiago (and his Space Monkey Mr KerPlop)

Not gonna lie, I was really expecting this to go the way of some grotesque body horror. Imagine my delight when it turned into a tale about a nice man and his dog! Really enjoying the new direction of the show - the sci-fi stuff has been a nice change of pace too. Have you thought about covering any Jack Finney? I would really recommend: “Such Interesting Neighbours” and “Of Missing Persons” from his collection “About Time”. There are quite a few good stories in that collection - lots of time travel and parallel world-type ideas. Anyway, I’ve been on this journey with you guys since 2011 and I’m really excited to see where the next phase of the show takes us. Thanks!

Sweatin' to the Great Oldies

My first exposure to the temptation of a new body story came in a Six Million Dollar Man book I picked up for a nickle before a long family road trip many, many years ago. Steve Austin is plugged into a cool spacecraft called Asp and is able to feel UV and all sorts of other amazing things. He has a great deal of difficulty severing connection and becoming nothing more than a hero playboy cyborg super-spy. I think we can all identify with that.

Rick Hound

This has given me thoughts back to the Hyperion Cantos and the relationships of the groups of humans in the early years of colonization and how they basically changed their biology to survive, some even flying across the vacuum with gliding wings. Another remembrance is any manga made by Tsutomu Nihei where humanity also go through transhumanistic evolutions like becoming silicon based life forms or generating photosynthesis so less food consumption.

Michael Littlefield

Another wonderful episode and I hope that you guys do more Clifford D. Simak as he's not as well known as Asimov or Heinlein or Clark. This story does offer a more optimistic view of transhumanism, but a good example of a pessimistic (or at least more wary) view of transhumanism would be "That Hideous Strength" the third book in C. S. Lewis's Ransom Trilogy. In it, C. S. Lewis argues that transhumanism would cause a person to lose any sense of humanity and become a sterile creature unable to truly enjoy life. C. S. Lewis has a character who wants to replace all living things with plastic and metal imitations of those things, thereby creating a world that is cold and lifeless and sterile. It is a novelization of the points Lewis made in his essay "The Abolition of Man" in which, C. S. Lewis argues, a select few in power would arise to break the links of humanity to the past in every aspect and condition all future generations to think and behave in accordance with those few "Prime Conditioners" (thus ending true human progression for the sake of "Progress"). My own view of transhumanism is somewhat mixed, but I tend to be a bit more wary of it since it does seem like a much more materialistic form of magic (in which the magician sacrifices a part of himself for power over Nature, but in so doing allows himself to be , little-by-little, conquered by Nature). C. S. Lewis's Ransom Trilogy really is a response to a lot of the Science Fiction being written at that time in which humanity spreading out among the stars was seen as some glorious achievement, showing man's dominion over the stars. However, Lewis argues that such human expansion is merely a larger version of Imperialism in which the native life of any earth-like planet would most likely be wiped out or enslaved by man for the sake of man. I do hope that you eventually get around to covering at least the first book in the Ransom Trilogy, "Out of the Silent Planet", as it does give an interesting critique of the Science Fiction stories of the first half of the twentieth century. The second book, "Perelandra" is also very good as well. Most people think "That Hideous Strength" is the weakest, but I personally like it as it does show how human progression needs to have some objective boundaries in place (much like G. K. Chesterton's analogy of the fence). Looking forward to listening to your conversation on "Leaf by Niggle".

Long time hater

I have to wonder whether returning to his 'human' form was even a possibility for Fowler and certainty doubt he would be able to understand and convey his experience when returned to his previous state of restrained consciousness. I've never been able to, or know anyone else be able to adequately convey the 'enlightenment' experienced during or after a psychedelic experience. For a more tangible example, when the pressure of being smart overwhelms Homer, he needs to explain himself to Lisa via a letter before cramming the crayon back up his nose. Isn't this a higher concept exploration of the reality that as a species, we've collectively got a crayon up our noses?