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D&D Court: Soggy Firbolgs, Goodberry Hacks and The "Heat Metal" Hearings (Patreon)

Published:
2024-05-24 05:02:27
Imported:
2026-06
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AD-FREE EPISODE FOR $5+ PATRONS!

Dungeon Court is back in session! Join Justices Murphy, Tanner and Axford, as well as the Righteous and Honorable King Bailiff Hurwitz (First of His Name, Reader of Cases and Ruler of Men, LONG MAY HE REIGN!) as they convene to pass judgement on your trials at the table!

CREDITS:

Sound Mixing and Editing by Trevor Lyon

Dungeon Court Theme Song by Sam Weiller

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Comments

The Soft Owlet

I love when it all starts with being nice to Jake. Caldwell always elevates the bit.

Hammy

Finally caught up since the 8 Bit Book Club days! Hell yeah!

Ralph Chavez

Get low get low get low 🙇🎶

Daniel A.

Worth the five year wait for the firbolg

Nick Lerche

Nice midnight drop so I can listen all day tmm during commute and break

Cook

Good night 2 crew

Mynne Maxine

I'm pretty sure gandalf driving a maxima is a legit commercial

Jack Francis West

Need a whole campaign of the poison sucker and the queen

Craig

As a 39 year old male who had a deep connection to Echo the Dolphin, I thoroughly enjoyed this episode

aiyana graham art

you can definitely use soap on cast iron pans. its a myth that it breaks down the seasoning. what happens when it is seasoned is a chemical reaction created partially by heat that can't be undone with soap. also you can definitely let the pan chill out for like 10 minutes before washing it lol

Final Cut

You can use soap on your cast iron skillet, it doesn't even have to be piping hot! Just wash it like any other skillet and maybe dry it off by putting it back on the stove to boil away any dampness. Make sure the soap doesn't have lye, that's the stuff you're not supposed to use (most soaps don't have lye anymore because it's super caustic).

Brandon Barnes

I can't fathom having a table tattler in my campaign, and I have to wonder how greatly the tattle-force affects that player's day-to-day behaviour as well 😭 Truly, not only would I have stood my ground on the damage score, I'd be having an extremely terse (but heated) conversation with the snitch. Like, what do you mean the snitch stood his ground??? After peeking??? The audacity 😭😭😭 Truly, the DM in that situation must have been a kind and agreeable soul. They don't deserve this 😭

Bea Munro

For the first person, this is actually a (pun intended) double edged sword. If the DM says heat metal doesn't act as a damaging effect and instead buffs the person it's cast on, you can just start casting it on your party's frontliner for extra damage every turn! Turn that awful ruling back on the DM!

Thimo The Fool

Almost fully unanimous decisions this ep :o

Li I

Love Murph accidentally teaching Law 101. The more specific rule taking precedent is an actual thing

VerminFang

In that goodberry players defense that interaction is confirmed RAW by sage advice and I'd understand wanting to change characters if the mechanics you were building around are no longer a part of the character

Jor Elare

I'm sure someone has already said this, you can use soap on your cast iron after it's been properly seasoned! The polymers should act as a very capable anti-stick surface and if done right won't come off with soap. The biggest no no is soaking them in water, since there will always be small pockets of iron that will rust

Jeremie Levesque

I don't think this changes the ruling. But the 4HP Goodberry is legit and confirmed in a Sage Advice. Although, the berry also gives you sustenance for the day, so it's very filling, I've seen DMs rule that you can't consume an unlimited amount of berries, which seems like a good compromise.

Professor Pratt

“Hardnut”!!! I’m dying in traffic.🤣🤣🤣🤓

Mr. Dude Sky

There’s a reason I DM with no smoke and mirrors. All rolls in the open. Also it’s a one shot kill the character. PC deaths are fun.

Frank Brandenburg

No need to worry so much about using soap on a cast iron, its a myth that it washes away the protective layer.

Jesse Earll

"Ruling with a rubber fist" was lowkey an amazing one-liner

Gearbox

First dm definitely doesn't *use* their swords; in HEMA your nondominant hand is almost always on the pommel of a longsword, which is still metal! I think the call vs sanctuary is correct. Imagine a scenario where someone casts heat metal on a suit of armor on the ground, and then someone with sanctuary came along to try and put it on. Sanctuary wouldn't have any retroactive effect on the heat metal caster's roll, so it shouldn't have an effect if it's up while heat metal is cast for the first time.

Luke Collister

The goodberry thing works according to wotc. It's not homebrew. The guy reacted weirdly but also it's so annoying to have DMs that just immediately say no to things rather than figure out the rules.

Kris Barnes

I was dying laughing during the Firbolg vs Goliath on the pier scene

kitty heite

My child, who is an avid dungeon court fan, would like to chime in that strawberries and blueberries are not berries but watermelons and bananas are.

Mason Murtha

8:40 Emily you can totally use some gentle soap on a cast iron skillet, I always recommend putting a light layer of olive oil after washing

Shane C

Is campaign 4 about the queen and the poison sucker?

Joseph Webster

100%. The inherited knowledge to never use soap on cash iron is from a time when we used harsh chemicals like lye to make soap. Using a much gentler, modern soap is totally okay.

Owen Meek

Pumpkins are the largest berry! They can grow larger than watermelons.

Colin Maclellan

I did play echo and oddly enough was just telling a co worker about it on Monday lol

Katie P.

In an AD&D campaign, my pops had "Transmute Liquids." Our DM knew it, but didn't remember it (he would pre-approve spells we took since AD&D spells are crazy). My pops asked if healing droughts were magical and due to the setting, our DM said No. That meant everywhere we went, pops' character was turning water barrels into healing potions lol. I'd love to see what Emily could do with the AD&D spell list

boundspyral

If I were the player in that first heat metal case and my DM said it didn't affect his guy cause a sword isn't entirely metal? I would've just said, "Okay, fine"... And immediately cast it on my fighter or paladin's weapon and give them their own fire damage buff for free!

Avi Rubinoff

If the goodberry thing worked, it would say in the rules of the game that it worked. The fact that a WotC employee thinks it should work doesn't change the fact that by the actual rules of the game it doesn't work.

boundspyral

It basically amounts to a hefty out of combat heal, especially at low levels. But I think a DM could spin it by saying, "okay, this gives me more leave to make more interesting and more challenging encounters." Plus if you're using your spell slots on goodberry you're not using it on other spells.

Cheese of the Lake

You can totally use soap on a cast-iron skillet if it’s seasoned correctly! I use soap on mine all the time and then I put it on a hot stove to evaporate any water, or you can wipe the water off the cloth

Jema Horjus

Even though heat metal definitely bypasses sanctuary RAW, I cannot fathom a narrative justification for it.

Bugbear

"Healing spell" isn't mechanical classification, there are only spells that restore hit points, which is what the Cleric feature describes.

Bugbear

I absolutely do not respect Jeremy Crawfords twitter account at my table lol

BahHumDoug

Clean your cast iron pans with a square of chain mail and some gentle dish soap.

Lemon Moon

The first guy needs to learn about swords being full tang, because if it isn’t I’m pretty sure the sword will break real easy.

MagnaniMel

@Emily, I use salt to scrub at the bits of food without messing up the seasoning on my cast iron skillet.

araysharp

They actually do make rubber handles to go on cast irons, i use one and just take it off when i put it in the oven

CommodoreBlue

The Berry debate reminds me of Vic’s “vegetables aren’t real” presentation on Smartypants. Man, Murph, Emily, and Caldwell would all be so good on Smartypants.

Alex H.

Also, 40 hp outside of combat for a 1st level spell slot is hardly game breaking, especially given that they had to spend a feat on it! It'll quickly get outscaled once characters have more health.

ACK

Justice for Beanrat! It wasn't his fault!

tiger

"did you know pumpkins are berries" is my go-to fun fact at parties. for some reason it really delights people

Jackson Roth

I feel I would be remiss if I were to neglect the chance to point out a missed bad joke.. when talking about the goodberries and the barbarian, I was thirsting for someone (maybe Caldwell?) to say say good barBerryian. Thank you for your time.

Sparster

This was actually my case! And yes we are aware of the sage advice, but don't agree with it. Not being able to eat unlimited amount of berries was one of the suggestions my player shot down

Jack Farley

This month we need to ask Caldwell to draw “Hardnut” lol

Witch of the Wandering Thought

I second this! Kosher salt and oil to scrub off the bits and then you can just rinse it off and put it in the oven to dry/re-season the pan

Nick Lerche

When I think heat metal vs sanctuary my mind goes to like what about metal flooring in an ezry like setting? Area of effect. So because it's not creature specific it's pretty buttoned up

jbyrd

Barberryan🍉

Alex H.

It does work by the rules of the game. Goodberry is a spell that restores hit points. Would healing spirit not get the bonus because it summons a spirit rather than directly targeting?

Jenna

I feel like if DM wanted heat metal to do what they said it did, there are mechanics for it. Fire resistance and like an absorb elements sword?

Liger Zero

thank you all in hearing my case, I feel vindicated after a very long time. looking back on it, it was clear that certain people in the group just wanted me out. they made some crazy rulings in that one, for instance, the bard looked me in the eye, rolled a persuasion check and said "you are a boat" and for the next two sessions they wouldnt let me do anything because I thought I was an inanimate object. they dragged me through a desert after we got to land, until my skin was gone. it was crazy

Nick Lerche

Yeah "my swords" in his defense is like cheap costume Ren fair non-swords lol

Samuel Ryan

Caldwell was thinking about the “heat car keys” spell specifically, it doesn’t work on other keys.

Jack Page

Certified Eagle Scout can confirm this!!

Zeon Liberation

Apples are the biggest berry. Also, horses were named after horsepower, which is a unit of measure for cars

Mak

As a DM, I have totally pulled punches for my players when they were in a pinch. I want them to have fun and will let them drop when the dice finds it poetic, but, when the game is sucking and the players aren’t having fun, I’ll fudge the numbers.

Declane Gilhooley

I was totally smoking a joint while I was listening to this one

tatsuo takao

Went totally off the rails at the end this time. Thank you for that gift <3

Dragonscalesofold

To be clear finding out watermelon is a berry is exactly the content I am listening for

Brenton

A watermelon is the biggest berry I would guess, or maybe a pumpkin

Brenton

Oh shit you said it in the episode, yeah I love fruits u don’t know are particular fruits

Brenton

Other notable berries: banana, tomato, oranges/all citrus fruits, cucumber

Glenn D AKA Mcdoogins

Walking away from your horse at the stables then turn back and click your fob 'bwoop bwoop'

Hamps

Heat metal on a metal ladder with multiple people on it. In a way it would kind of work as a area of effect

Avi Rubinoff

Goodberry is not a spell that restores hit points, it's a spell that imbues berries with a magical property. That magical property is what restores hit points, not the spell. Think about it this way - if no one eats the goodberries, the spell was cast but no hit points were restored. If the spell restores hit points, how can that be?

thatoneguy

I would honestly be more upset if Ecco stole my wallet than if he beat me up. If he kicked my ass I could maybe see it as a misunderstanding between species. If he mugged me than I'm just getting robbed by a Sega Genesis hero.

LowlyWorm

the improv of the poison sucker at the pier killed me emily jake and caldwell jumped on that SO fast

Luke Collister

Because the effect of the spell is what is restoring the hit points. There's a sage advice clarifying it.

Luke Collister

They built their character to do something within the rules of the game. It's pretty harsh to just shut it down because you don't like the rule. Especially because it's hardly game breaking and centred around helping the party. They probably reacted so strongly because they were stoked to reveal their cool mechanic and it was instantly shit on. Doesn't excuse them being so childish in the end but I have a bit of sympathy for them.

Brady Pearson

Adding to this: the myth comes from the old days when soap had lye in it. Lye will 100% strip your season

Brady Pearson

Make sure you dry it thoroughly on the stove first though! Don't wanna trap any water under the oil

Brady Pearson

You can use soap though if you want to! The soap myth comes from when lye was in soap. Though if something is really stuck on, the salt scrub is the way to go. Then rinse, put it on the stove to dry, then wipe down with a thin layer of oil (wipe it on, then pretend you made a mistake, and try to wipe it back off). Any oil except flax seed oil will work! https://www.seriouseats.com/how-to-buy-season-clean-maintain-cast-iron-pans

Alex H.

If I cast a fireball on an empty area it doesn't stop being a damage spell.

Persephone's Tavern

We're the Justices and Baliff Jonk replaced by the Lore Lord's when I wasn't watching? What is happening 😂

Noah Page

He also either hasn't really looked at them or has some pretty crappy swords, given that iirc basically all post bronze age swords have a tang--a piece of metal that extends from the base of the blade /through/ to the bottom of the handle which is really important to the structural integrity and control of the weapon. I guess the enemy's sword technically could have no metal in it's handle, but only if their world hasn't invented proper forging yet.

Jor Elare

On the subject of screen peaking DMs, my issue is that as a new DM who isn't the most comfortable with coming up with combats, sometimes I've homebrewed something that turns out to be a little too much during a part where a PC death would feel bad, I want license to fudge and keep it fun!

Vi

there is a sage advice that specifically says goodberry and life cleric works, which is almost certainly why the player was so gung ho about it

Ash

“This is why you’re listening to DND Court folks” Jake it ABSOLUTELY is 😂😂😂

Reid Mosieur

You can definitely use soap on cast iron, I clean mine out with soap and water every time. Just dry it out really well, put it on the burner to get it even more dry, wipe a little bit of oil around the inside with a paper towel or rag and you’ll be good to go.

Jules

I personally would rule in favor of the character w/ sanctuary at my table. Most spells treat objects worn or carried as part of the creature. Therefore casting it on their weapon/armor would be casting it on the character. Now, casting it on a metal ladder that they are climbing would be aoe and circumvent the sanctuary spell.

Sparster

Frist I disagree that its completely within in the rules of the game. Yes there is sage advice, but that is the opinion of a single WoTC employee not RAW. Second, as mentioned in the case it wasn't that I shut it down because I didn't like the rule. It was hey, this is a busted combo we may need to talk about balancing this with suggestions like others haven mentioned such as goodberries being so filling you can't eat an unlimited amount. This wasn't a case of is this allowed or not. It was a case of is this player being unreasonable that they didn't tell the DM ahead of time they were basing their character around a busted interaction (which the player admitted is busted as well) and then being unwilling to work with the DM to make sure the party stays balanced at our table. It also wasn't instantly shit on. It was, "Hey I'm going to allow this for now since we're I. The middle of a session, but we need to talk about this to make sure it's balanced going forward".

SpillboBaggins

IMO: player has bad attitude, but combo makes sense and isn’t that broken. Just scale up the encounters to deal more damage to them.

SpillboBaggins

As many people have pointed out, the goodberry / life cleric thing totally works, and is in fact written up all over the place as a “combo” or a build you can do (Druid with a life cleric dip for example).

Aidan Warlow

Legendary spontaneous Jake plays 5 different characters improv scene in this one. Jake man I've been a fan of yours for like easily over half my life at this point and you've only gotten funnier. Thanks for years and years of laughs

Z Carthy

I almost ran a red light laughing at the Improv scene 😂😂😂

Mortimer Lunch

That’s enough for some people to give up on D&D for a while :/ hope you’ve continued playing!

cookedbruce

The reason people say not to use dish soap on cast iron is that we used to use lye which would strip the seasoning off a pan. This isn't an issue with contemporary detergents which are much less alkaline, go nuts. People get overly invested in not having to reseason pans anyway, it takes about 5 minutes to polymerise an oil or fat to your pan. Love the show.

Liger Zero

I was out for like 6 years before I tried again

Captain Positivo

Even as a self professed big number lover who thinks the goodberry combo is cool (plus Crawford says it works) the player was indeed out of line for their ‘tude

Cooper Erikson

Use salt for an abrasive cleaning and then apply oil and reheat to condition the outer metal before storing. Never use anything acidic on the metal as it will ruin the seasoning on the outer metal surface that keeps it protected.

Ajax

I wasn’t sure if I could forgive Caldwell for not having played echo the dolphin but I really like the image of wizards as rules lawyers for the laws of the arcane

Tim

I just finished a campaign where my friend, who was playing Druid, basically just said he was casting Goodberry all the time and then using those berries to essentially make a smoothies, which was then used as a healing spell. He’s one of those “main character energy” types of guys, so I just let him have it.

Michael Beck

So all of Cucurbitaceae are pepos, so those gigantic pumpkins that are over 2k pounds those are also berries.

LunaEklipsed

Please tell Emily that you can absolutely use soap on a cast iron skillet. A little scrub with a small amount of soap and some water won't hurt your seasoning. It used to be an issue with older soaps because of how harsh they were.

Ryan

Who hasn't played ECHO?!

Matt Kilsby

That whole skit by the dock with the sudden arrival of the queen really tickled me. Big old belly laughs had on my drive.

Samwise_the_G

Never disagreed with y'all more than I do about the Goodberry ruling, haha. Partially because I've run a druid cleric multiclass specifically for this effect. Part of how you can tell it works is that D&D Beyond automatically applies this effect. I worked out with my DM that I would distribute them to folks prior to battle so that I could provide healing, but get to have fun in combat, haha.

DarkSnowman13

Watermelon as a goodberry also feels like a bludgeoning weapon. "I cast Goodberry, 30 feet over the bad guys head!"

Ya Girl Olwen

I’m on board that Heat Metal bypasses Sanctuary. I don’t think you should do that to a player though because it feels bad. That needs to be something where a player gets to feel clever for circumventing an enemy’s defenses, not something where a player is made to feel like they wasted their resources.

Summer Tribe

where's my oxford comma in the title huh?

Anuj Chowdhuri

just had the magical experience of hearing caldwell sneak a “Weed” in there at 4:20

Jomalar

The dm claiming that the bg would be able to hang onto the sword because the metal doesn't go all the way into the handle is so wrong. Him saying he knows so because he has "a lot of swords" shows that he only has crappy wall hanger swords, not actual battle ready ones. All real, functional swords have full-tanga of metal from the blade running through the handle.

Lilli of the bog

Weed is too strong now? What does that even mean?

Summer Tribe

JCraw supports it for whatever reason. Frankly, healing spells are dogshit in 5e, I let it happen too. Helps let the players actually feel okay running the 6-8 encounter day. DnDBeyond doing something doesn't mean it follows the rules tho. A lot of elements of that site haven't worked properly for a decade

Jay S

TANG AND THE BANG BABY

Fxd Gear Queer

What is wrong with the peeking PC? How do you not just reposition yourself so you can't see behind the screen? And if that's not possible, inform the DM. Major "if there's no price tag its free" energy in retail.