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[CLOSED] - PLEASE READ CAREFULLY! - The Harry Potter Book Club! Your Notes for Chapter 24 of The Order of the Phoenix! (Patreon)

Published:
2026-03-09 19:00:24
Edited:
2026-04-08 13:51:24
Imported:
2026-08

Content

THIS PART OF THE BOOK REVIEW IS NOW COMPLETE! Thanks for taking part and see you next time! :)

IMPORTANT! - HI GUYS! As discussed, we will be covering 1 chapter this time! As you are getting the Book Club post so late, expect it to be complete early April, but it won't be as late as the last one, so be sure to get your comments in Sooner than later! :)

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Oof-Tee-Poof, everyone!! 👋

Here is a chance to get your comment read out in the next Book review video!

If you are reading along with the reviews, we are covering chapter "Occlumency"! So if you have any thoughts, opinions, comparisons or questions regarding these, please leave a comment below!

I do have to ask, try to keep them fairly short, like 4 or 5 sentences.  That way I can cover more when making the video.  Also try to keep them on subject and not referencing anything that we are yet to cover. Ideally, keep it to 1 comment each if you can (if you have more to say after commenting, you can edit it and add to it! :) ).  These are just rough guidelines rather than rules, I want to be able to fit in as many of you as possible! :)

NEW FEATURE!! - As some of you may want to make a comment, but not have it replied to by others, you can now Message me your thoughts on the chapters by DM'ing me on here.  If you do, please follow all the above rules, especially avoiding mentioning things in future chapters or books!  Oh and please start your DM message with "Book Club -"!

To anyone that does reply to comments below, please make sure you are being friendly and respectful!  A lot of tone and meaning can be lost in text, after all!  If you disagree with someone on something, keep it polite and remember the golden rule in life - Sometimes you have to just agree to disagree! :)

Thanks, guys!! :)

Files

Comments

Sunblooded

Hey woozle! (And I guess veggie too) (Btw changed my username/ profile pic, it used to be Slytherin_Apollo) Sirius and snapes fight at the start…..come on you’re not school kids anymore you both need to grow up and stop antagonising each other The remedial potions is actually a good excuse, yeah the way snape said it was an insult but it is actually a decent excuse with how bad Harry is at potions “I’d rather have the nightmares”…..really Ron? Would you? That means you’d have been the one to have that dream of your dad…….. The nightbus takes you actually to Hogwarts not King’s Cross/ hogsmede? Wow that’s convenient so if you can get there in a fraction of the time why the really long train journey from London to Scotland? Harry and cho going to hogsmede on Valentine’s Day……romantic “Not as poor as it might have been” was that…..kind of a compliment? From SNAPE?!! I love the twins invisible hat idea, these two are actually really a talented and ambitious wanting to own a shop, a lot of people say the twins could have been in slytherin cus they fit the traits (same as Percy, cuz he’s really ambitious more than anything else), interesting to think about it, like are you sorted off the traits you HAVE or the ones you ADMIRE? Cus there’s a few characters (Percy (more ambitious than anything, a slytherin trait) and pettigrew (rather cowardly and unloyal, the opposite of the main gryfindoor traits)) that just seem to not really fit with the houses they’re placed in

Alex Hopps

Hey veggie In the interest of keeping it short ill summarise my thoughts rather than typing the full rant. Snapes a bit of a prick, and sirious too. They both need to grow up and be the adults in the room. They both have significant roles to play at the leading edge of the resistance against the end of the world as we know it

Badger Kat

Greetings, Veggie and Woozle! In my opinion, none of the chapters really need to be done together. The author made them separate chapters so they can be read separately. Ch 24 - Harry has been behaving like an angry, moody, traumatized teenager for most of the book so far - and he still manages to behave better than Professor Snape and Sirius in this instance. - Professor Snape is maybe the worst person to try and teach Harry Occlumency. Too much bad blood between them and Snape is not the most patient teacher on a normal day. - I’m glad Harry didn’t have his fit of maniacal laughter in the common room. Anything that makes Voldemort that happy must be bad! As always, thanks for your hard work, please take care of yourself and the noodle!

Keary Smith

Helloo! Once again a chapter where I have to remind myself that they are only children, teens at that with hormones and all. But Harry really is kind of thick when it comes to girls, but weren't most of us a bit silly as teens? :D I have surprisingly little to say regarding this chapter. Occlumency was an interesting addition and I actually kind of enjoy the extra Harry & Snape interaction. While Snape is still horrible and even to a higher degree these moments combines two interesting characters and gives some of my favourite interactions in this book. Mostly I am left waiting for your reaction for the next two chapters!

Dave Brannagan (Brannas86)

Hey Veggie and Woozle. We found out where Kreacher apparently was. Serious getting 'fits of the sullens' close to the end of the holiday is understandable as he has had company after months of being utterly alone. Snape does not help matters teasing him about it. Another comment is accurate. They aren't school kids anymore and need to grow up. Occlumency disguised as remedial potions with Snape are brutal for Harry and Snape letting his feelings about James dictate his feelings/actions is not very mature. Though we find out more about 'the weapon' Voldy wants in the department of mysteries and the unspeakables that work there. F&Gs headless hats would be fun for Halloween. Have a great day/evening to you and Woozle.

Andrew K

Hi Veggie! First Sirius & Molly’s argument, and now Sirius & Snape - the Grimmauld Place kitchen has two of my favourite scenes in the whole book! I wish we’d have seen these in the movies. After Azkaban, we don’t see Sirius & Snape on screen together again in the movies. It was nice to see Snape give some rare credit to Harry when he brought up Harry’s aptitude for being good at fighting off the Imperius Curse. It might be the first time in the whole series that Snape has ever shown any sort of praise to Harry - a first time for everything! As much as Snape dislikes Harry, you can tell that Snape is actually trying to help him in closing his mind. It’s different to his attitude in Potions class where he seems to relish in Harry’s failures. These comparisons are another example of how complex and grey Snape is as a character. When it comes to school and grades, he loves to bully Harry, whereas when it’s a matter of life and death, he is more than willing to help. Such an intriguing character.

Madikuma95

I've always wondered why Snape asked Harry, "To whom did the dog belong?" Why focus on that memory in particular? Any guesses on what's in the package Sirius gave to Harry? The scene of Harry laughing is really creepy. What could possibly make Voldemort of all people so happy?

Cari Ann (edited)

Comment edits

2026-09-07 04:00 Hi veggie! I find Occlumency to be so interesting but can't believe Dumbledore really thought snape could teach him it. I think harry should be able to learn it because he was able to fight the imperious curse and similar skill is needed for it but him and snape cannot do this together. I get that Dumbledore is also dealing with umbridge right now though so private lessons with harry would likely set her alarm bells off but remedial potions with snape she is probably laughing about if she hears it. -Do you think snape could try harder to be nicer to harry during these lessons? -Do you think you would be good at Legilimency and/or Occlumency yourself?
2026-03-09 19:45 Hi veggie! I find Occlumency to be so interesting but can't believe Dumbledore really thought snape could teach him it. I think harry should be able to learn it because he was able to fight the imperious curse but him and snape cannot do this together. I get that Dumbledore is also dealing with umbridge right now though so private lessons with the headmaster would not be work but remedial potions with snape she is probably laughing about if she hears it. Quick questions! -Do you think snape could try harder to be nicer to harry during these lessons? -Do you think you would be good at Legilimency and/or Occlumency yourself?

Hi veggie! I find Occlumency to be so interesting but can't believe Dumbledore really thought snape could teach him it. I think harry should be able to learn it because he was able to fight the imperious curse but him and snape cannot do this together. I get that Dumbledore is also dealing with umbridge right now though so private lessons with the headmaster would not be work but remedial potions with snape she is probably laughing about if she hears it. Quick questions! -Do you think snape could try harder to be nicer to harry during these lessons? -Do you think you would be good at Legilimency and/or Occlumency yourself?

Cari Ann

Spoiler free buffer answering my own question: I think Occlumency would be more challenging for me to shut down all emotions and memories, I would like to think I wouldn't want to use the power of reading people's minds but I think I would actually use it if I had the ability. Curious how much snape has used this on his students and even harry prior to lessons.

Alias93

Hi Veggie! The occlumency lesson starting immediately after the attack in the movie feels so weird if you’ve read the book, Harry didn’t even know if Mr Weasley was alive or not. Cho: mentions the next Hogsmeade trip being on Valentine’s day. Harry: ‘‘What could she mean by this?’’ We never got to see Harry actively dating Cho or Ginny in the movies, how do you think their date is going to go?

Alexandra

Hi Veggie and Woozle! I know a lot of the comments are going to be about Snape and Occlumency so I just wanted to throw in some other stuff to break it up a bit! As an adult, the Harry and Cho relationship feels forced but thinking back on being 15, this also seems really accurate to a first relationship where you have no concept of how to date anyone. And I feel like being at a boarding school might make this harder because the only adults around you are your teachers and I would assume you aren't going to them for dating advice. I know Harry could reach out to Sirius to ask but that just doesn't seem like something he would do. So it almost feels like they both just have a crush but it's just so awkward that everything feels uncomfortable. I also think that Cho needs extensive therapy before dating anyone, especially the person who was with her ex-boyfriend when he was murdered. Hope you and Woozle have a great April with the weather getting nicer!

Cari Ann

The comment just before you asked about his prediction for the date, I completely agree about therapy for cho that poor girl has been through a lot.

Badger Kat

I am just realizing that the train apparently doesn’t take them home and back for the holidays? They go back on the knight bus here and I looked up book 6 and it mentions a special floo connection for security to get back, no mention of how they got to the Burrow. I must have fallen into the trap of only remembering the movie where they took the train in the 6th movie!

Alias93

Tbf we commented one minute away from each other, so it's not really a matter of not reading the previous comments.

Cari Ann

Yea I was just informing you so veggie doesnt end up getting the same question in a row, not accusing you of not reading the previous comment I get it.

Alex Hopps

I think harry could of learned from snape if he was willing to try. The fact ot was snape wasnt the thing holding him back. He wanted the dreams. He never once practised despite the very clear instructions to try hard every night before bed. He learned patronus in 3rd year because he was motivated to try. He is capable of advanced stuff if he sets his mind too it

Kunzite Blossom

I agree that occlumency would be hard. Having to shut down all emotions? Way to hard for me. Especially for Harry who I feel uses his emotions to the best of his ability, I mean he can cast a full patronus at such a young age! Very powerful emotions and memories for that. I feel if you are good at one, you will suck at the other. Though I guess that just shows how powerful Snape and Dumbledore are that they can do both! I do agree Alex that I think Harry could have really learned and been on that level of Snape and Dumbledore, however you are right. He did want the dreams, (I mean it helped him save Arthur and even led him to Hogwarts for a horcrux. He did get useful info from them sometimes). I think regardless of how much he was told it's dangerous, I don't think he processed that. Though I do believe it is partly his distrust in Snape as well. He never trusted Snape to actually be on their side and was worried Snape was just doing the opposite and trying to help Voldemort be let in. I think that's why he never cared to practice. His distrust and hatred of Snape wouldn't allow him to try.

Kunzite Blossom

I wish Harry would open that package from Sirius! What do you think it is? Also, as much as i'm not a Snape fan. Their interactions in lessons are interesting. You see Snape treat Harry a little differently. Though I still think Snape is not the best choice for these lessons just given the history.

Alexandra

omg Alias twins! I'm probably going to edit my post later tbh so there is some diversity in the comments lol

Diego Zenhäusern

WFFTITWFF Veggie! I love that Hermione is impressed by the invisibility hats. It again shows that Fred an George are actually really gifted and good at what they do! It is always sad to me how close Snape gets to being a good teacher and a decent person towards Harry. But sadly basically every positive comment is followed by a bunch of insults and him attacking Harry without giving any real instructions as to how Harry is supposed to perform Occlumency to fend him off...😕 On a happier note: Gotta love wingwoman Hermione immediately taking Ron to the library so Harry can speak to Cho🙂

felipeluzz

Hi Veggie! I think what this chapter makes me realize (or rather, proves what I already thought) is that Snape is not a good teacher. IT really seems like he is making an effort to teach Harry more earnestly this time compared to how he teaches him in Potions class. Yet he is still doing the "tough love" "you are not trying hard enough" method, which, after 5 years of teaching Harry, he should have realized that it doesn't work on him. Harry responds much better to a relaxed/positive learning space like Lupin's class or Flitwick's. We also know, because of [MOVIE KNOWLEDGE], that Snape genuinely wants to protect Harry, and Occlumency is certainly vital for his protection. Still, he just cannot be more positive, and Harry ends up hating Occlumency because of it. I genuinely think Snape was trying this time and that he just really doesn't have what it takes to be a good teacher. Then again, I had several teachers in school who were just like that... PS: Just saw you saying that you loved my surname, thank you! Luzzardi is an Italian surname, as I have Italian ancestry.

S1lm4r1l (edited)

Comment edits

2026-09-07 04:00 Sup Veggie, feel free to skip anything covered already :D This entire chapter is almost entirely devoted to Snape's (and Dumbledore's) failings. Snape has a loud argument with Sirius Black and the very next day criticises people who cannot control their emotions. Snape criticises Harry for "having no subtlety", when his teaching method consists of mashing information into his student's brains with a mallet. Snape criticises Harry for losing control and then loses his temper after Harry remembers seeing his parents in the Mirror of Erised. With hindsight, that image is difficult, but Snape preaching control stinks of hypocrisy to me. My biggest complaint is the massively faulty logic going on: Snape explains how Legilimency and Occlumency work normally and then says (Paraphrasing) 'the normal rules do not apply with your connection to Voldemort.' If the connection results in unusual, unconscious Legilimency between Voldemort, Harry and Nagini, apparently breaking all the normal rules why would Snape and Dumbledore think Occlumency would work? I think Dumbledore and Snape have no idea how the connection works, or what to do. I think Harry would be unable to repel Voldemort even if he was the world's greatest Occlumens because this connection breaks all the normal rules. I think Occlumency is a badly disguised Hail Mary. I think Legilimency has been used several times before. Book 2, when talking with Lucius Malfoy, Dumbledore looks right in Malfoy's eyes, Malfoy seems to catch himself and Dumbledore knows everything. Book 3 Dumbledore has his chat with Sirius and believes his story. In Book 4 Voldemort knows that Frank Bryce is lying. Dumbledore may have used it on Harry during their end-of-book interview. Why didn't Sirius give Harry that present at Christmas, it was only a few days before? What do the Unspeakables do in the DoM? Competitive Charades? Harry the emotional weathervane is reporting that Voldemort is happy again, why? Apologies for long comment, tried to edit it down and did a short one last month. :D *Might Edit*
2026-03-10 14:48 Sup Veggie, feel free to skip anything covered already :D This entire chapter is almost entirely devoted to Snape's (and Dumbledore's) failings. Snape has a loud argument with Sirius Black and the very next day criticises people who cannot control their emotions. Snape criticises Harry for "having no subtlety", when his teaching method consists of mashing information into his student's brains with a mallet. Snape criticises Harry for losing control and then loses his temper after Harry remembers seeing his parents in the Mirror of Erised. With hindsight, that image would upset Snape but preaching control stinks of hypocrisy to me. My biggest complaint is the massively faulty logic going on: Snape explains how Legilimency and Occlumency work normally and then says (Paraphrasing) 'the normal rules do not apply with your connection'. If the connection results in unusual, unconscious Legilimency between Voldemort, Harry and Nagini, why do Snape and Dumbledore think Occlumency works, it breaks all the other rules? I think Dumbledore and Snape have no idea how the connection works, or what to do. They are applying ordinary methods of dealing with Legilimency to an extraordinary connection. I think Legilimency has been used several times before. Book 2, when talking with Lucius Malfoy, Dumbledore looks right in Malfoy's eyes, Malfoy seems to catch himself and Dumbledore knows everything. Book 3 Dumbledore has his chat with Sirius and believes his story. In Book 4 Voldemort knows that Frank Bryce is lying. Dumbledore may have used it on Harry during their end-of-book interview. Why didn't Sirius give Harry that present at Christmas, it was only a few days before? What do the Unspeakables do in the DoM? Competitive Charades? Harry the emotional weathervane is reporting that Voldemort is "the happiest he had been in 14 years", why? Apologies for long comment, tried to edit it down and did a short one last month. :D *Might Edit*

Sup Veggie, feel free to skip anything covered already :D This entire chapter is almost entirely devoted to Snape's (and Dumbledore's) failings. Snape has a loud argument with Sirius Black and the very next day criticises people who cannot control their emotions. Snape criticises Harry for "having no subtlety", when his teaching method consists of mashing information into his student's brains with a mallet. Snape criticises Harry for losing control and then loses his temper after Harry remembers seeing his parents in the Mirror of Erised. With hindsight, that image would upset Snape but preaching control stinks of hypocrisy to me. My biggest complaint is the massively faulty logic going on: Snape explains how Legilimency and Occlumency work normally and then says (Paraphrasing) 'the normal rules do not apply with your connection'. If the connection results in unusual, unconscious Legilimency between Voldemort, Harry and Nagini, why do Snape and Dumbledore think Occlumency works, it breaks all the other rules? I think Dumbledore and Snape have no idea how the connection works, or what to do. They are applying ordinary methods of dealing with Legilimency to an extraordinary connection. I think Legilimency has been used several times before. Book 2, when talking with Lucius Malfoy, Dumbledore looks right in Malfoy's eyes, Malfoy seems to catch himself and Dumbledore knows everything. Book 3 Dumbledore has his chat with Sirius and believes his story. In Book 4 Voldemort knows that Frank Bryce is lying. Dumbledore may have used it on Harry during their end-of-book interview. Why didn't Sirius give Harry that present at Christmas, it was only a few days before? What do the Unspeakables do in the DoM? Competitive Charades? Harry the emotional weathervane is reporting that Voldemort is "the happiest he had been in 14 years", why? Apologies for long comment, tried to edit it down and did a short one last month. :D *Might Edit*

Garfnob (edited)

Comment edits

2026-09-07 04:00 Greetings, Chapter – 24 - Black’s big mistake. (clarification latter) - Snape’s clarification of Legilimency sounds like a distinction without a difference to me. It is mind reading as the term is intended in this context. - Harry “so Voldemort could know what I am thinking right now?” Snape “no, but in your case yes.” - i was under the impression the Pensieve held copies of memories. this chapter implies Snape is transferring memories, or what would be the point. also what is the point anyway, whey is the Pensieve even there?
2026-03-10 15:16 Greetings, Chapter – 24 - Black’s big mistake. (clarification latter) - Snape’s clarification of Legilimency sounds like a distinction without a difference to me. It is mind reading as the term is intended in this context. - Harry “so Voldemort could know what I am thinking right now?” Snape “no, but in your case yes.” - i was under the impression the Pensieve held copies of memories. this chapter implies Snape is transferring memories, or what would be the point. also what is the point anyway, why is the Pensieve even there?

Greetings, Chapter – 24 - Black’s big mistake. (clarification latter) - Snape’s clarification of Legilimency sounds like a distinction without a difference to me. It is mind reading as the term is intended in this context. - Harry “so Voldemort could know what I am thinking right now?” Snape “no, but in your case yes.” - i was under the impression the Pensieve held copies of memories. this chapter implies Snape is transferring memories, or what would be the point. also what is the point anyway, why is the Pensieve even there?

Garfnob

"I wish Harry would open that package from Sirius! What do you think it is?" - this might be drawing undo attention to it.

Garfnob

"Do you think snape could try harder to be nicer to harry during these lessons?" - no. Snape is trying to keep Harry worked up. it is easy to suppress emoticons when calm. would it be better to take it one step at a time? yes, but they do not have the luxury of time. trial by fire teaches fastest.

Garfnob

Veggie has stated he does not want to know what from the movies is accurate and what is not. might want to remove the reference to movie knowledge.

felipeluzz

I feel I was vague enough just saying that snape "wants to protect harry", as the fact he is a double agent is common knowledge and veggie himself talks about it all the time. Still, not a hill I want to die on so I can edit out if many people think it's too spoilery

S1lm4r1l

Spoilero Protecto.

S1lm4r1l

Talking about Slughorn's classes might be spoilery for Veggie.

S1lm4r1l

He wanted the dreams because neither Snape nor Dumbledore explained how dangerous they were. His only experience of them was using the information he saw to save Arthur's life.

S1lm4r1l

Nightmares aren't fun, but spending an extra hour or more with Snape, alone every week? I don't blame Ron for saying that.

felipeluzz

Good call, edited that one out

Andrew K

The way it’s described makes it seem as though Snape was teasing Harry for being bullied by Marge & the dog. It mentioned something about his mouth twitching but it wasn’t specific enough on his reactions to it. I’d like to hope there some element of feeling sorry for Harry but Snape doesn’t really seem the type to be like that

Andrew K

Just to play devil’s advocate, I personally feel like the question is okay to ask. I don’t think there’s any way for Veggie to guess what it is and I think he’ll forget about it by the time the reveal comes around (just my opinion though!)

Badger Kat

I’ve wondered if the horcrux would have prevented Harry from keeping Voldemort out? Like maybe he could have learned occlumency but still not been able to keep Voldemort out.

Cari Ann

That is a very interesting theory badger Kat! Also thank you everyone else for your responses, I really like that my questions got so many replies, it is so great to hear all your guys thoughts on it.

Badger Kat

Yes, I love the discussion too! To answer your question about if we could learn, I would say that I would not, I don’t think I’m very emotional but I’m also not very focused and my mind wanders too much for meditation.

Esmeralda Joy

Hi Veggie! Sirius and Snape acting like snotty children, the odd and unnecessary knight bus ride, and yet another lesson where Snape only gives the most vague and unhelpful instructions. I understand occlumency's importance, but I just did not enjoy this chapter. Hope you did though!

Jake M

S'mae Woggzie! Chapter 24 "Sirius' cheerfulness was evaporating fast now that Christmas was over" - I know that feeling! It strikes me as a bit lax security getting the Knight Bus directly from Grimmauld Place- what if the Ministry or Moldywart had someone on the bus? Harry seemed very quick to mention Remedial Potions to people... Why tell Zacharias Smith (of all people) what he's doing? Just say you're busy! Which reminds me- now that you're using Streamable, have you considered reacting to Puffs, the play about the second best Hogwarts house (after Ravenclaw)? I think you'd really enjoy it. All the best to you both, I'm looking forward to the next chapter!

Dara Jeeling

also, I have no proof but I think ever since book 1 Snape has been occasionally using legilimentic on Harry/Ron and Hermione There are several occasions when Harry has the feeling Snape "knows" he is not telling the truth.

S1lm4r1l

Oh totally. Almost every single time Harry lies to Snape he looks him directly in the eye and Harry abruptly stops doing it after this point when Snape tells him "Eye contact is often essential to Legilimency".

S1lm4r1l

That's the point I made in my comment Kat. Harry's connection with Voldemort seems to contradict almost everything Snape tells Harry about Legilimency/Occlumency.

Florian

Hi Veggie, You should wonder why there isn't a spell or potion that helps clearing your mind. I think that would help to get started in occlumency and improve, until you start getting the hang of it. through watching the movies, you might already know why Snape uses a pensive here.

jolt45

Howdy Sir Veggie and Lady Woozle Sirius implying that Snape is Lucius Malfoy's "lapdog" is interesting. We know they were both Death Eaters and that Snape looks after Draco but we don't know much beyond that yet. When the Weasley's come into the room during Snape and Sirius' argument, Harry is described as "trying to force them apart" with an outstretched hand. Does this mean Harry laid a hand on Snape? I think Snape would take exception to that. I wonder if Occlumency would work on Toph? Imagine Voldemort speaking with Toph's voice: "I can tell you're lying!" Its fascinating how Snape describes the mind and how magic depends on time and space. It may seem obvious but the "rules" of Wizarding World magic are very subtly fleshed out in these last few books. Keep an eye...or rather an ear...open for these details. Harry rolling around on the ground with his eyes closed while laughing maniacally is pretty rock n' roll tbh.

Ирина Устюгова

Snape is afraid to say his master's name, yet he calls Harry, who fought Voldemort since he was 11, weak. Sure, bud🙄

Ирина Устюгова

These Occlumency lessons highlight Snape's absolute refusal to see Harry as his own person. When Harry responds to his bullying, Snape puts it in the "you're just like your father" box; when Harry's life is in danger, he puts it in the "you're an extension of someone I cared for" box. It's somehow like Sirius — but at least Sirius, when confronted with the evidence, had the sense to say, "You're less like your father than I thought." Snape saw Harry's thoughts, pain, and trauma and simply dismissed them. Because he can't put "family abuse" or "grief over Cedric's death" into either box. Still, Harry and Snape's interactions are always exciting to read.

Badger Kat

Do we still need spoiler protection? *edit* I guess so, the app doesn't seem to show the first reply anymore but the website on a computer does.

Badger Kat

This chapter tells us ‘where Kreacher was’ even though we don’t necessarily know it’s a lie at the time. Hinting that there is more to the story is spoilery in my opinion.

jolt45

Yeah, that's fair. Im sure he'll give us his thoughts on Kreacher at the beginning of his notes anyway. I'll remove it.

Badger Kat

I appreciate that and love the rest of your comments! Sorry, I think I could’ve phrased my comment better, I hope it didn’t sound harsh, but it’s hard to read tone of voice in text form.

Maria

Hi Veggie! Yay for the Night Bus! It's a fun addition to this chapter. Also, can you believe Hermione is still knitting elf hats, lol? Other than that, I don't have much to say. I struggle with this chapter because I find reading it to be difficult and unpleasant. It's just so HEAVY, and Harry's dread and unhappiness is infectious. I must say, I REALLY hate Snape in this chapter; the way he treats Harry here is just unpardonable.

Dodolulupepe

Hi Veggie! Snape's several faults in this chapter have already been discussed heavily, so I'd like to note a few good points: - The Sirius-Snape argument was vitriolic on both sides, but I noticed Sirius was pretty much entirely the escalator. First to stand up, first to pull out his wand, and first to raise it. - Snape rubbing his Dark Mark unconsciously really reads like he had experienced some kind of physical punishment and/or trauma there connected to saying the name Voldemort; he is surely not just "afraid" of it out of nothing. - He does give Harry credit a bit: "for a first attempt that was not as poor as it might have been." And Snape and Harry's discussion most certainly came close several times to hinting too much; it's clear Snape and Dumbledore have been discussing a lot more in the background. Very curious... What do you think had happened to make Lord Voldemort the happiest he had been in fourteen years?

Dodolulupepe

"afraid" is surely not the full picture. The way he reacts: "'the rest of us...' He rubbed his left forearm, apparently unconsciously, on the spot where Harry knew the Dark Mark was burned into his skin." clearly reads to me like he had experienced some trauma, punishment, or even torture connected to saying the name Voldemort. It was an unconscious response to a kind of remembered pain, this is not a light thing. Since we know in Deathly Hallows his name was made into a taboo, my thinking is that this was in the first war too, and that a death eater was supposed to activate the taboo and say the name when reporting something important, but was probably punished if the report was false or not to Voldemort's liking.

Oona M

Hi Veggie! - "...Harry yelled, vaulting over the table, and trying to get in between them." I know that Harry is supposed to be somewhat athletic (playing quidditch and so on) but for some reason him casually vaulting over a table really surprised me. - I love Harry trying so hard to be polite towards Snape to get some information out of him. - Snape's teaching methods don't seem particularly effective here. At least give Harry some time to get ready!

Ирина Устюгова

I highly doubt Voldemort's name was taboo during the first war. Otherwise, members of the original Order would surely have remembered it. For example, Lupin looks completely stunned when he learns that the Death Eaters managed to find Harry and has no idea how they did it. Voldemort was winning the first war, so I don't think he had much need to torture his allies. Also, many people lost something in the war with Voldemort, and unlike Snape, they had no choice. Did Voldemort ever torture Snape (besides the Dark Mark)? Unlikely. But even if he did, he did so while Snape was helping him kill and torture other innocent people. Snape's trauma is no greater than that of Lupin, Sirius, or Dumbledore, who fought on the side of good and watched their friends and allies die. And Snape's trauma is certainly no greater than Harry's, for whose parents' deaths, I remind you, he bears partial responsibility. In any case, Snape may have good or bad reasons to fear Voldemort, but he still clearly fears him. And I don't blame him for it; the best characters, like Hagrid and McGonagall, are terrified of Voldemort too. The only difference is that none of them would ever call Harry weak. Snape needs to stop being a hypocrite and stop belittling and judging Harry's character. He has no right to do so, for many reasons.

H (edited)

Comment edits

2026-09-07 04:00 Hi Veggie! Harry opening the door to the kitchen, to find Snape and [Mr. Black] sitting there staring in opposite directions, would've been so funny in the film. I love that visual. I love how chaotic the Knight Bus is. They clearly could've done something to make it a less terrifying experience to be on it, but at some point someone just went "that'll do" – I suspect it probably happened just before the weekend. What's the happiest you've been in the last 14 years?
2026-03-17 23:48 Hi Veggie! Harry opening the door to the kitchen, to find Snape and [Mr. Black] sitting there staring in opposite directions, is a great visual. I would've liked to have seen that in the film. I love how chaotic the Knight Bus is. They clearly could've done something to make it a less terrifying experience to be on it, but at some point someone involved just went "that'll do" – I suspect it probably happened just before the weekend. What's the happiest you've been in the last 14 years?

Hi Veggie! Harry opening the door to the kitchen, to find Snape and [Mr. Black] sitting there staring in opposite directions, is a great visual. I would've liked to have seen that in the film. I love how chaotic the Knight Bus is. They clearly could've done something to make it a less terrifying experience to be on it, but at some point someone involved just went "that'll do" – I suspect it probably happened just before the weekend. What's the happiest you've been in the last 14 years?

H

If you shout a spoiler, I will curse you into oblivion.

Howiedoing

When first reading this book “ the weapon” it was so intriguing to me what kind of wizard weapon could there be? I can’t say reading minds is a superpower I would choose.

Connor Wilkinson

Hi Veggie & Woozle, I’ve missed most of the book clubs for this book, as I have started a new job and haven’t had as much time as before. So have slowly been catching up. Chapter 24 * The Knight Bus always seems like a very chaotic ride. * I enjoyed hearing about Ron’s excitement about riding the Knight Bus for the first time, then his disappointment about falling off the chair 6 times. * Harry not being able to work out what Cho was implying is hilarious. * I enjoyed all the callbacks to the previous books during the Occlumency lesson.

SavageKim

Your comments about Snape would have been mine almost exactly! I found his teaching was "almost" good, in some parts except he couldn't help himself adding jabs about James to Harry. It just also would have helped to suggest any possible tips/tricks on HOW to get good at occlumency.

itsanursething

Hi Veggie and lovely Woozle! Did you ever think you’d see the day when Harry dreaded going back to Hogwarts?? I know a lot of people have talked about the occlumency lesson (which is the main part of the chapter) but I feel I have a different opinion about it. I don’t think Snape was trying very hard to teach Harry. He explains what it is and then just says, “clear your mind and GO!” What? How? How do you clear your mind? Are there any other steps involved? If not, does it really need to bo a recurring class? Just clear your mind and you’re golden? He was so vague on what to do. As someone with ADHD, my mind is NEVER clear. Ever. I would fail at occlumency. Or I'd confuse whoever got into my head with my random jumble of thoughts and terrible memory. On a side note, I’m going to see both Daniel Radcliffe and Tom Felton on Broadway this month. I’m so excited!!

Garry (Not Jerry)

I think it’s just establishing that Snape can indeed see into Harry’s mind. I don’t think the dog has any particular meaning

Garry (Not Jerry)

“I wish Harry would open it” - hmm, but veggie doesn’t know that Harry won’t open it. And he doesn’t know what it is, so you wishing he would open it implies that it would help. Maybe I would ask the question in a more neutral way

Simon audsley

"You can knock it, you can rock it, you can go to Timbuktu, But you’ll never find a...." In case your not aware jk rowling had revealed that a character was going to die before the release of the book so everyone reading it at the time was wondering who it would be. someone has a spring in their step in the house of black. Snape saying that the dark lord almost always knows when someone is lying is a bit of a subtle brag. I wonder how much dumbledore is actually using harry to test his theories about what is going on. The scene when harry collapses in and is laughing would have been another good scene to have been shown in third person, ron finding him cackling on nthe floor with no warning would have been pretty dramatic.

PumpkinSparks

Hey Woozles Hooman! Re-reading this chapter was quite a ride for me. I don't know why, but for some reason I kept having flashbacks to the moment when I first read these past 3 chapters. It didn't happen last month, but now I vividly remember sitting in my bed, way past midnight and school the next day, but just being unable to put away this book. Just one more chapter... I think I didn't sleep at all that night, just lied awake wondering what was going on. Next day at school? By brain really wasn't where my body was! "That laughing bit was creepy... Thankfully Arthur is okay! ... Is Snape really a good guy? I don't like that he calls Voldy 'Dark Lord'... The thing is in the ministry!? ... Sirius is so hot! ... Okklumency sounds really cool... Aw, Harry managed to ask Cho on a date! ... Why is Voldy so happy?!?!?!?! WHAT IS GOING ON???????" Yeah, these chapter are really good! Sidenote: on the Knight Bus, why don't they bolt the chairs to the ground? Or better yet, magically stabilize the inside of the bus so nothing is flying around? You can't tell me they can't do that.... As always, please give some love to Wooz :)

Paulina

Hello, Veggie and Woozie. Work has been hectic so it's been a while since I was able to comment. I listen to every book club, mostly when I get ready for work, but had no time to comment so sorry if my comment is too long. Anyways: • Severus Snape and Sirius Black hate each other, but honestly they’re very similar. They both act in the same childish way, and neither of them is better than the other. When it comes to dealing with their emotions, they’re both kind of losers. • Snape is such a horrible teacher. He just walks in with no preparation and doesn’t make sure Harry is ready or even knows what to expect. Also, the way he keeps reminding Harry to call him “Sir” really shows how fragile his ego is. He seems so insecure that he constantly needs to reinforce that he’s above Harry. • It’s also really hypocritical how Snape says that not being able to control your emotions makes you a fool, when he clearly can’t control his own. Anger and annoyance are emotions too, and Snape struggles with them a lot. We see that in this chapter with the Sirius situation, and even when Harry forgets to call him “Sir.” It just makes Snape seem like a hypocrite and not a great teacher—he has no patience, which discourages Harry and makes it harder for him to focus. Hope you're doing better, and can’t wait for your thought as always 😊

Réka Kovács

Was the argument in book 7 between Remus and Harry also in the kitchen? Because then it would be 3 major arguments. I love that scene, as Tonks is my favorite character, I was absolutely on Harry's side, telling Remus to go back to his wife and be a father. It was the first and only time I was mad at Remus 😅

Hawwah

This chapter really highlights what an awful person Black is. When he was at Hogwarts, he viciously persecuted Severus for years and almost murdered him. Now, as an adult, Black not only shows no remorse for his past actions, he continues to harass his former victim every chance he gets. Black is constantly disrespectful to Severus, undermines his authority in front of Harry, picks up a verbal fight with him and then almost starts a physical fight as well. What an a-ahole. All of this was completely unnecessary and it shows us Black never really stopped being a bully. He behaves exactly like Draco. He keeps poking and poking, escalating his insults, hoping to provoke a reaction. Read the scene carefully; Black is the sole instigator of the whole altercation. All Severus wanted was to deliver his message and leave. But Black, being the bully he never ceased to be, saw an opportunity to pick on his favorite chew toy once again. "Why can't Dumbledore teach Harry?" asked [Black] aggressively. "Why you?" Black asked aggressively. Those are JKR's words. She makes it very clear this is not a genuine question. Black wants to pick on Severus, to stir up a conflict. Severus still replies politely which is not what Black hoped for. So he keeps going, escalating his verbal attacks. Sev stands up to Black, but unlike him, he never escalates, he only reacts to what Black is doing. Black is the first one to pull out his wand. He's also the first one to raise his wand at Severus. When Harry positions himself between the two men, only Black attempts to push him out of the way. Sev doesn't. The whole incident was entirely Black's fault and yet people try to spin this and somehow blame Severus for standing up to his bully. What was Sev supposed to do, just allow Black to pile on him and not fight back? I don't think so. And no, Severus defending himself is not "just as bad" as Black attacking him. Good for Severus standing up to his abuser.

Bennet

Hey there Veggie! I missed the last 2 Book Clubs as I was moving. Harry took a while to understand what Cho wanted from him, I can relate tho xD Sirius acts very selfish here, but honestly, I really feel bad for him. Imagine escaping out of prison to settle things with the person that was responsible for your imprisonment and then being forced to stay in a house he thought he escaped from when he was a teenager. Imprisonment all over again. After Lily and James's death, the only time he was free was during book 4. I feel that Snape is a bit too sadistic to be teaching Occlumency, poor Harry.

Hawwah

The person defending himself is no better than the person attacking him? Those are some interesting morals. I guess Harry is no better than Voldemort then.

Paulina

He is defending himself with Black, yes. But then he goes and bullies Harry. How is that make him any different than Black? He is an instigator when it comes to Harry and his other students, though. Also, how did you reach that conclusion (that Harry is the same as Voldemort) from what I said about Snape? That's some reaching, right there.

Garry (Not Jerry)

I find it really interesting to see Harry interacting with Snape in this way. They have never really talked as allies in the fight against Voldemort. Snape has always kept his distance, and just been a teacher with no sort of personal relationship with Harry. Very different compared to Lupin, but both teachers have now given him private lessons, interesting to compare the two! I actually think remedial potions is a bad cover up. I don’t see Snape ever actively helping Harry if he thinks he is struggling in class. And there are other students who are poor performers (e.g Neville, crabbe & Goyle) so it doesn’t make sense that Snape would favour Harry

Hawwah

When did Severus bully Harry? Can you give me just one example? You wrote that Severus, who's defending himself, is no better than Black, who is the aggressor. Using this logic, when Harry defends himself against Voldemort, he's no better than Voldemort. Or is it just Severus who's not allowed to fight back against his attempted murderer? Oh my god, I've been so long away from this forum that I legit forgot about the double standard! My bad. My bad.

Hawwah

Wait a moment, are you really saying Neville is a bad student? You mean Severus doesn't make it up? I can't believe my eyes.

Garry (Not Jerry)

At potions? From Snape’s perspective, sure. I mean he certainly performs poorly, regardless of whether he has the potential to do better.

Hawwah

How about transfiguration? "Longbottom, kindly do not reveal that you can't even perform a simple Switching Spell in front of anyone from Durmstrang!" - Minerva McGonagall (GoF, chapter 15) Is Neville a bad student? Or is Minerva making it up and picking on him for no reason? How about charms? "[Harry] did so badly at Summoning Charms in Professor Flitwick’s class that he was given extra homework - the only person to get any, apart from Neville." (GoF, chapter 18) Why did Professor Flitwick assign an extra homework to Neville? Could it be Neville is a bad student or is Flitwick bullying him for no reason? How about flying? Neville managed to break his wrist in the very first lesson because he didn't follow Madame Hooch's instructions. Either Neville is a horrible student or the entire teaching staff at Hogwarts decided to conspire against him for some unknown reason.

Hawwah

Pfff, "sadistic". The man had unconscious Sirius Black at his mercy, he could do anything he wanted to him and yet he didn't harm a hair on his head. He conjured a stretcher for him instead. That's how "sadistic" he is. Good grief.

Liz

Hey Veggie and Woozle It's been a busy few months. Hope you and Woozle are doing well. I can't believe I missed some of the best chapters lol. Chapter 24 I felt so sorry for Harry having to leave Sirius considering Hogwarts is not the same place it once was. I love Harry being distracted by the chess game though haha, 'squash him, squash him he's only a pawn you idiot' 😆 Ugh having to refer to it as remedial potions is going to be embarrassing. Sirius and Snape are a bit like Harry and Draco lol. Stan is quite a character isnt he haha. Yes! Finally Harry's brain clicks before it's too late haha (Valentines trip to Hogsmeade). I will say Snape is a good teacher but he seems to enjoy bullying children. Take care

Garry (Not Jerry)

I think Neville is a bad student in the literal sense that he performs badly in classes. That being said we know that his biggest issue is his confidence. Teachers like Lupin and indeed Harry certainly managed to get a much better results from Neville by being more supportive. Mcgonagall and Snape, however, don’t take an approach with Neville that works very well. I could be wrong but I think come OWL time Neville actually does pretty well at charms, so I’d be inclined to say that Flitwick has slightly better results, but that could also be down to natural ability. I suspect that your motivation for commenting is mostly about defending Snape though. (Who I wasn’t really attacking in my comment, but I get it) but if you want my opinion I think Snape is more of a bully to Neville than Mcgonagall or Flitwick. Admittedly Mcgonagall can be pretty harsh too!

Hawwah

"I think Neville is a bad student in the literal sense that he performs badly in classes." I'm not sure I understand. What is the other meaning (the non-literal one)? "we know that his biggest issue is his confidence. " No, I don't agree with that. Neville's biggest issue is his sloppiness. He is capable of doing things properly when he wants to, he proved that several times already. He just can't be bothered most of the time. "if you want my opinion I think Snape is more of a bully to Neville than Mcgonagall" You're obviously entitled to your opinion. I just don't understand why is putting a student in mortal danger more accteptable than making him prepare potions ingredients.

Music Here

I wouldn’t call it a faulty logic at all. Like Snape says, Harry’s case is special, and Dumbledore is correct that Occlumency would help against Voldemort too, not just regular eye contact Legilimency. This logic also fits Snape’s description of Occlumency: “It seals the mind against magical intrusion and influence.” Whether that intrusion happens without eye contact, during sleep, or because of the Horcrux connection is irrelevant. The fact is that it does happen, which means Occlumency would help. We also know Harry eventually learns to close his mind to Voldemort in Deathly Hallows. The narrative never really challenges the assumption that it wouldn't also work in sleep, nor does it give us a reason to doubt it. The main point of this book is Harry learning Occlumency so Sirius doesn’t die. The tragedy is that he doesn’t learn it. It would be kind of ridiculous if Occlumency wouldn’t have even helped lol. So even on a meta level, it’s pretty much a given that it would have helped.

Music Here

I understood the difference. What Snape is basically saying is that Legilimency doesn't let you simply hear or read someone's real-time thoughts like Professor X, but rather you can sense their feelings and memories, or see some flashes. If you're really amazing at it, you might even be able to tell if a person is lying. In other words, it's more nuanced than "mind-reading", although there's really no better term for it.

Music Here

On the other hand, starting it immediately makes it clear to the viewers that this is urgent and important. It really could not wait.

Garry (Not Jerry)

What I mean is, a student can do all the homework, behave themself in class, pay attention, study hard, and all these things would make them a “good student”. But they can still perform poorly despite all of this. An example of a bad student who still performs well is probably someone like James potter. I imagine he talks, acts up and shows off in class, distracts the other students etc but still performs well. Sadly I don’t have time to look up exact quotes, but I think it’s pretty well documented in the series that Neville has a lack of confidence which comes from the grandmother being dissapointed in him, from an early age thinking that he was a squib, and being disappointed that he is not like his father. I think also at some point during one of Harry’s lessons Harry even says that Neville’s problem is lack of confidence (or maybe it was McGonagall that said this?) Mcgonagall certainly stands up for Neville at one point, saying that his grandmother should be proud of the grandson she has, not the one that she hopes to have. “He can’t be bothered” - I can see why you would reach that conclusion if it weren’t for the fact that other teachers do manage to engage him (Lupin & Harry) A good teacher will find a way to get through to their student and get good results from them. Sadly for Neville, intimidation and strictness is certainly not the way. Perhaps what you’re reading as sloppiness is actually just inability to think clearly because he’s just too nervous. Not sure what you mean by putting a student in mortal danger. I’m guessing you mean either the detention in the forbidden forest or not giving him the password to the dormitory. The forest is a weird one because it’s not like any other detention they have ever had, so it doesn’t really fit with Mcgonagall’s character. I would guess that Dumbledore had a hand in this particular decision, maybe he was testing Harry somehow, deliberately wanting him to go into the forest and discover quirrel/voldemort/unicorn. It makes more sense than sending 1st years on a mission for “detention”. I mean the detention they got was for helping Hagrid get rid of his dragon so I mean, Dumbledore had to know that happened, the whole situation is a bit weird really. Not giving him the password was probably the safest option for the rest of the students because he had clearly proven that he could not be trusted with it. Yes it is a punishment and yes it theoretically makes him a little less safe, although realistically all he has to do is go with another student and get them to let him in. As for Snape, well if the toad situation doesn’t convince you, I’m pretty sure the word “bullying” is used by the author herself in the text.

Alias93

Yeah, I get that's one of the reasons the movie did it that way, but still you can't really expect Harry to get good enough at it on his first lesson, especially in the state he is in at that point.

Madikuma95

To be fair to Neville, he didn't lose the passwords, Crookshanks stole them.

Methanoutput

Guten Tag Herr Veganer und Hund Woozle, i love the scene with the knightbus. Would you have seen it coming that the greatest of all time, Stan Shunpike would return? Poor Madam Marsh though. Funny that she appeared now twice, she was also mentioned in the third book, also in the knightbus scene. Which small characters would you like to make an appearance again from the books so far? Hope you are alright and can't wait to hear your thoughts!

Garfnob

"What Snape is basically saying is that Legilimency doesn't let you simply hear or read someone's real-time thoughts like Professor X" - nope. he stated "thoughts are not a book you can read at leaure". he is objecting to the term "read" thought, likely because it is a muggle term. however what he describes is what is meant by mind reading. also it can be done in real time it is stated that is how voldimort know when people are lying to him, by sensing the conflicting emotions. " sense their feelings and memories, or see some flashes." - and properly disuse there meaning, know what they are thinking, "read your mind". " it's more nuanced than "mind-reading", although there's really no better term for it." - nope. it just takes more skill then people think mind reading should. it works exactly how i always interpreted mind reading.

S1lm4r1l

Maybe it would, maybe it wouldn't. My greater point is that Snape and Dumbledore cannot possibly know whether that's the case. They have no ideas beyond just teaching Harry Occlumency and hoping for the best. Not exactly foolproof. They give him as little as possible and tell him "Do this thing that ensures you receive less information." A truly wondrous motivation for Harry. Nevermind the fact that Snape stops teaching Harry in a fit of childish pique, thereby confirming Harry's own perception that Occlumency didn't actually do anything for him.

Mate

I was going to comment that we haven’t heard from Hawwah in a while. Hope you have been well I really like your take on Snape. Snape is one of my favourite fictional characters ever created. In terms of black and white? I personally dont believe he is meant to be a pure white character. He is meant to be a little flawed just like every one of us. I do agree with you on your points on this chapter about Sirius being provoking even though I like Sirius as well. My only comment to you is sometimes your comment seems a little more emotional. You are passionate about your points and again I love your take on it and agree with most your points but they do sometimes appear more emotional. I also believe Snape is so hard on Neville not only because he is not so good at potions but because he could have been the other chosen one and Voldemort went for Lily’s family instead. He just remembers Lily every time he sees him or Harry

Alias93

@Mate Just a heads up, the first response to a comment will automatically show up when Veggie reads the comments for the book club, so it's best not to mention anything spoilery in case he sees it by accident (it probably won't happen because of the length of your comment but we never know). Could you maybe edit your comment by removing the last paragraph, and then reposting it as a separate response? That way it won't show up in the book club.

Music Here

Snape is not really objecting the use of the word "read" because it's a muggle term, but rather because he believes that muggle term is not accurate enough to describe Legilimency. Snape literally explains his reasoning in the next sentence: "The mind is not a book, to be opened at will and examined at leisure. " "Reading" implies interpreting written or printed symbols (letters, words, sentences) and clearly understanding their meaning. Legilimency is not that accurate, which is why Snape opposes the term. Wizards have developed their own term for it for a good reason (Legilimency). Sure, the wizarding world's need to differentiate themselves from muggles might also play a part, but it's definitely not the only one. It's great that you've happened to have always interpreted mind-reading that way. I haven't, neither has Snape, and I understand where he's coming from.

Music Here

Why wouldn’t they know? Is there something about Snape and Dumbledore that makes you think they don’t understand Occlumency? Being two of the most skilled Legilimens and Occlumens in the world certainly doesn’t support your assumption, nor does their incredible overall understanding of magic. Dumbledore especially, is basically a magic encyclopedia, particularly when it comes to explaining Harry and Voldemort’s connection. Yeah no, I’m not buying it. I assume they’ve done their homework and understand that Occlumency can obviously help during sleep. There's zero reason for me to doubt that in universe, and it's the same on a meta level in terms of how storytelling works.

Hawwah

Hi Mate, thank you for your comment. (Spoilers ahead.) Neville never could have been the chosen one. How did Harry become the chosen one? By surviving the killing curse. How did Harry survive the killing curse? Thanks to Lily's blood protection. How and why was Lily's blood protection activated? Because Voldemort offered Lily the option to save herself and she refused. "...your mother needn't have died... she was trying to protect you..." (Voldemort to Harry, PS chapter 17.) "Stand aside, you silly girl... stand aside, now. This is my last warning--" (Voldemort to Lily, DH chapter 17.) Voldemort gave Lily the chance to live. And she chose to die. In order to protect Harry. This is crucial. Had Voldemort simply walked into the room, killed Lily on the spot and then cast the killing curse on Harry, Harry would have been killed. Lily's conscious sacrifice made all the difference. But how come Voldemort gave her the choice in the first place? Severus. Voldemort gave Lily the chance to live only because Severus begged him to spare her. (That's right. It was Severus who ultimately caused Voldemort's first downfall. Crazy, isn't it?) So why couldn't Neville become the chosen one? Because Voldemort wouldn't have given Alice (or Frank) the same choice he offered Lily. If he had gone after the Longbottoms first, he would have killed Frank, Alice AND Nevile and then moved on to the Potters. It's mind-boggling how people still don't understand this.

Hawwah

"Sirius and snapes fight at the start…..come on you’re not school kids anymore you both need to grow up and stop antagonising each other" Black antagonized Severus. Severus defended himself. Key difference.

Dara Jeeling

well, which person at HOgwarts wouuld be your choice? Dumbledore, Minerva, Hagrid or Snape that is literally all the ordr has there and since Ukbridge need to be kept in the dark also... I do not think Snape volunteered.

S1lm4r1l

I said they don't understand the connection. Snape even says that Voldemort has been unaware of the connection until very recently. Snape makes plain that normal Legilimency and Occlumency are conscious acts. Legilimency at least requires a spell, eyecontact helps a great deal and Time and Space matter in Magic. Whilst Occlumency requires massive force of mind. Neither should be possible whilst Voldemort and Harry are asleep hundreds of miles from each other. And yet that's exactly what Dumbledore and Snape think is happening. Snape tells Harry to rid his mind of all emotion before going to sleep. This is not Occlumency. Harry is not capable of Occlumency whilst asleep, although evidently both Harry and Voldemort are capable of Legilimency, or the facsimile of Legilimency their connection facilitates. Dumbledore and Snape are attempting to apply ordinary methods of dealing with Legilimency to an extraordinary connection. The very fact they are doing so reveals that they have no better alternative and have a very limited understanding of exactly how the connection works. I don't doubt that Dumbledore and Snape know a huge amount about Occlumency and Legilimency. I'm simply saying that most of their knowledge does not apply to the connection between Harry and Voldemort.

Garfnob

"Snape literally explains his reasoning" - yep. and his explanation of Legilimency is what is meant by mind reading. knowing what the target is thinking. "The mind is not a book, to be opened at will and examined at leisure." - exactly my point. he has a problem with the word "Reading" "It's great that you've happened to have always interpreted mind-reading that way. I haven't, neither has Snape, and I understand where he's coming from. " - if not "seeing" the targets thoughts and possibly emoticons. how do you invasion a mind reader getting the info?

Josh Z

Black really is a terrible influence on Harry, because typically they are both so ready to pick a fight. Interesting that he gets between them, you would think his hatred towards Snape would cloud his judgement but even he seems genuinely surprised. Might be the most stark difference between the books and movies is Sirius is not actually an adult, not emotionally anyway.

Emory

Hi Veggie! Snape's comment to Harry about "fools who wear their hearts on their sleeve," calling people who show their feelings "weak," is such a reflection of Snape's worldview and survival strategy, and it contrasts so much with how Dumbledore seems to think. For Snape, emotions are something to bury rather than to process, a survival mechanism he's developed because he's been hurt by feeling deeply in the past. I think Snape attacks what he sees as weakness in Harry partly because he can't afford it in himself. On the flip side, Dumbledore seems to believe that Harry's emotional depth (especially his capacity for love) is what gives him an edge over Voldemort. I could go into so much more depth with my thoughts on this but will leave it here for time's sake. Curious to hear your thoughts!

Music Here

Not sure how to make myself more clear here. I agree with you in a broad sense that it's basically mind-reading, because you're trying to figure out what someone is thinking. My (and Snape's) point is about the word "reading." "Reading" means interpreting written or printed symbols (letters, words, sentences) with a certain level of clarity and structure. That's what Snape is pushing back against when he says "the mind is not a book, to be opened at will and examined at leisure." Legilimency doesn't really work like that. You're not seeing someone's thoughts laid out cleanly in written from, or with exact detail like "this is what he thought at 2 a.m." or "these are his exact thoughts right now." It's more fragmented (emotions, memories, impressions that need interpretation). Snape's point is that it's not literally like reading, and that term makes it sound more precise and straightforward than it actually is, which is why he's against it and prefers the term Legilimency. I do agree with Snape, but you don't even have to agree to see where he's coming from.

Garfnob

""Reading" means interpreting written or printed symbols (letters, words, sentences) with a certain level of clarity and structure." - that is one meaning. i know no one that thinks mind reading is you see there thoughts as printed words. "Reading" and "Mind Reading" are not the same thing and do not have the same meaning. you can look at is a Mind Reading = interpreting the mind. if that helps. also you stated the problem was not with the word "reading" it was with the posses being different. now you are arguing for the word being the problem. "It's more fragmented (emotions, memories, impressions that need interpretation)." - like every discretion if mind reading i have ever heard. the reader needs to interpret the thoughts. we will have to disagree on this point. i am done with it. P.S. mind reading definition (per the oxford dictionary) - "the action or process of discerning (or appearing to discern) what another person is thinking."

Andrew K

Love this look at their characters!

Andrew K

I think the explanations for Neville’s poor performances were both the lack of confidence and due to the fact that he wasn’t using a wand that “chose him” until later in the books. The importance of having a wand the connects with you is detailed as being massively important, and Neville may also struggle due to that. I don’t believe there’s much evidenced in the text to suggest that he’s lazy or can’t be bothered. Sometimes though, the school system just doesn’t suit particular students and their brains, with some autistic people being a big example of that. Herbology is more practical and hands on, not requiring much magical skill, and he thrives on that lesson where he’s confidence in his knowledge, the environment is far less intimidating, and he doesn’t need his wand

Music Here

1. In a world where transfiguration, Polyjuice, and even Muggle disguises exist, I don't really get why Sirius has to stay locked up at Grimmauld Place. 2. The movie simplified Legilimency to "mind reading," which is fine, but I liked the more nuanced explanation in the book. Snape dislikes the term because "reading" suggests interpreting something clear and structured, like words on a page. That's why he says, "the mind is not a book, to be opened at will and examined at leisure." Legilimency doesn't work like that. You don't know what someone thought at 2 p.m last Tuesday or even their full memories right now. It's more fragmented (emotions, current thoughts, flashes of moments that still need interpretation). That's why Snape prefers the term "Legilimency." I totally get why the filmmakers simplified it, but they should have at least included the part about eye contact being important. I don't think they even talk about Legilimency outside of Harry & Voldemort's connection in the movie. This reminds me of the unforgivable curses lesson in Goblet, when Moody said the whole class could cast the killing curse on him, and he'd just get a nosebleed. It shows that it's a difficult spell, and that detail was missing in the movie. These nuances add context and make the story clearer, which is a big reason why the books are better.

S1lm4r1l

I agree Paulina. Snape is a hypocrite and a bully.

S1lm4r1l

The Order needs someone to stay at Headquarters. Sirius could've hidden out anywhere. Its rather ironic that Sirius feels aggrieved about his uselessness when his presence in Grimmauld Place is actually useful.

SavageKim

Hi Veggie! Harry's delayed understanding during his conversation with Cho has always made me chuckle. But also felt real & relatable, even as an adult woman! Short comment since others have touched on my thoughts on everything else, so... have a good day and take care!

Hawwah

Black doesn't have to stay at Grimmauld Place. That's just an excuse. He's hiding in his mother's old house because he is a coward. Severus saw right through him. He's a Legilimens, after all.

ChrisG9018

hello veggie first time commenting, love your movie reactions with the insight of all the actors. since we now know of Voldermorts mental connection to Harry, this could explain a lot. like Harry resisting the imperius curse by prof Moody. also why the dementors kept attacking Harry. take care.

itsanursething

It was so good! Dan and Tom are both so incredibly talented! I loved both shows so much!

emmainkeri

They truly are! Happy to hear you had a good time :) I've seen lots of clips from Dan's show, wish I could go see it!

itsanursething

I think they put a recording on Netflix! Definitely check it out!

Steven

Hey veggie! Theres not much for me to say about this chapter other than it being very frustrating that the movie didn’t include certain scenes

Ashley Evers

Ooftypoof, Veggie and Woozle! Thinking about it, it’s weird to me that occlumency is not a common branch of magic. I can understand why you wouldn’t teach legilimency, it is the kind of magic that is too easy to abuse. But I would think that knowing that legilimency exists would make occlumency something you taught everyone, at least the basics. It’s like teaching Defense Against the Dark Arts, you need to have some idea how to defend yourself. Maybe it’s impossible to teach occlumency without essentially also teaching how to do legilimency? I’m almost sad that Harry got in between Snape and Black. They are both grown men who are acting like children, at least if he let them fight it out, they might face some consequences and be forced to confront the foolishness of their behavior. I barely got this comment in in time, thanks for waiting just for me 😉🤣

Réka Kovács

That's a great explanation. Honestly, I never thought it through like that, I always thought it could've been Neville. But your reasoning makes complete sense, but not everyone thinks of that, so you don't need to be so harsh about it :)

Réka Kovács

Hi Veggie and Woozle! Do you think Harry is just imagining things about the behaviour of Kreacher, or is something off with him? Snape really manages to push Sirius' buttons, but imagine walking in on the two of them wands to each other's faces... Any guesses of what the package is that Sirius gave Harry? "If you shout his name, I will curse you into oblivion" a bit aggressive, but I love Tonks 😅 Oh Harry, always the big romantic...

Dobby Delfstoffer

Hi Veggie! Only a Dutch fun fact this month: the Knight Bus is called the Collectebus in Dutch. A collectebus also means a collecting tin. Stan Shunpike is translated to Sjaak Stuurman. Stuurman translates to steering man, but ironically he is the conductor and not the driver. The driver (Ernie Prang) is called Goof Blikscha. "Blik" means tin, but in Dutch the term "koekblik" can also be used to describe a rickety car, so that tells you something about the state of the Knight Bus! See you next time!

S1lm4r1l

Even if Snape has been tortured by Voldemort. Harry has as well. Voldemort literally uses the Cruciatus Curse on him. Harry still says the name. Dumbledore would've been a far better choice to teach Harry Occlumency.

S1lm4r1l

Snape understands mind-reading to be foolproof, or otherwise much more concrete than Legilimency. A central aspect of this book is Harry to sharing Voldemort's thought and feelings. Its why Kreacher has to keep Sirius busy whilst Voldemort lures Harry and why the mirror fragment is so gut-wrenching. Voldemort has to set Harry up to believe a certain way.

Badger Kat

Interesting thought that maybe if they had actually gotten into a fight there might’ve been consequences and they might’ve changed their behavior.

Ashley Evers

It might be wishful thinking 🤣 But maybe it would have made Dumbledore rethink some of his choices too 🤣

S1lm4r1l

It was indeed Reka. That table has definitely seen some trauma.

emmainkeri

Hey Big V! Hi Monkey! <3 Long time no see. I was finally able to catch up again! I'm moving houses and the long Potter videos have really helped me focus while packing and sorting through my things. Here are my highlights of the chapter. I tried to make new points and keep them concise: Sirius becoming more prone to what Mrs Weasley called 'fits of the sullens'. (Apparently a Potter exclusive term?) "His gloom seeped through the house, oozing under doorways like some noxious gas, so that all of them became infected by it". (I'm sure many of us have experienced this. Feelings are contagious.) This underrated funny line of Harry entering the kitchen: "'Er', said Harry, to announce his presence." Sirius stepping up as the guardian of a 15 year old. He knows Harry can't really question Snape or stand up to a teacher, but Sirius could. He didn't handle it well, but I believe his intentions were good. IRL, parents have to trust schools and teachers almost blindly. Here, Sirius had a chance to be present and show Harry that he's on his side, and I'm thankful for that. On the Knight Bus, Ginny sat in the back with Fred and George, and Lupin was with them. I personally believe that Ginny is quite close with the twins. How do you think they spent the journey back? What did they maybe talk about? Thank you for another excellent review, I hope you're feeling good today. Later, Big V!

Garfnob

Snape understands mind-reading to be foolproof, or otherwise much more concrete than Legilimency." - i think you are reading more into the text then is there, but it could be that Snape does not understand what is meant by mind-reading.

S1lm4r1l

I mean that mind-reading implies gaining perfect, complete knowledge. Whereas Legilimency gives you fragments and you are required to interpret them correctly.

No Trains

Hello Veggie and Woozle, I see we are recording the book club. I'd just like to say you make a powerful impact in my life and these book clubs help me a lot. Thanks for all the Videotronic Entertainment you provide.

Garfnob

"mind-reading implies gaining perfect, complete knowledge." - that would depend on your understanding of mind-reading. mind readers use "it is not as easy as you thing" as an excuse when they get it wrong. i guess i am in the minority hear. i have always understood mind-reading to work as Snape describes Legilimency.

Dodolulupepe

Hawwah, I am generally more on the side of defending Snape, and don't mean to upset at all, but it feels like you are writing some intentionally provocative things sometimes, for example your first reply "Wait a moment, are you really saying Neville is a bad student? You mean Severus doesn't make it up? I can't believe my eyes." (Since the comment wasn't even about attacking Snape at all.) Veggie is trying really hard to keep a very respectful discussion in these book clubs and we should all remember what he says, that not everything disagreed with needs to be combatted 100% and at the end of the day it is just discussing a book. I do genuinely appreciate your comments as they have a very unique perspective usually, but just try to be more respectful please, idk