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[CLOSED] - SINGLE CHAPTER - The Harry Potter Book Club! Your Notes for Chapter 28 of The Order of the Phoenix! (Patreon)

Published:
2026-07-03 21:16:42
Edited:
2026-08-01 14:48:40
Imported:
2026-08
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Content

THIS PART OF THE BOOK REVIEW IS NOW COMPLETE! Thanks so much for taking part and see you next time! :)

Hi guys! I just want to add real quick, I really need to cut back on the negativity and the waffle in these and I am really sorry. I really need to stop getting sidetracked and have extreme takes on the chapters when it comes to morality, as I feel they are alienating some Book Club members. It really isn't my intention and will work towards making these less 'gloomy' and waffly. Thanks for sticking with me during this messy time. I still can't believe this is a series we are making, and I appreciate every single one of you for being a part of it!

Oof-Tee-Poof, everyone!! 👋

Here is a chance to get your comment read out in the next Book review video!

If you are reading along with the reviews, we are covering chapter "Snape's Worst Memory"! So if you have any thoughts, opinions, comparisons or questions regarding these, please leave a comment below!

I do have to ask, try to keep them fairly short, like 4 or 5 sentences. That way I can cover more when making the video. Also try to keep them on subject and not referencing anything that we are yet to cover. Ideally, keep it to 1 comment each if you can (if you have more to say after commenting, you can edit it and add to it! :) ). These are just rough guidelines rather than rules, I want to be able to fit in as many of you as possible! :)

NEW FEATURE!! - As some of you may want to make a comment, but not have it replied to by others, you can now Message me your thoughts on the chapters by DM'ing me on here. If you do, please follow all the above rules, especially avoiding mentioning things in future chapters or books! Oh and please start your DM message with "Book Club -"!

To anyone that does reply to comments below, please make sure you are being friendly and respectful! A lot of tone and meaning can be lost in text, after all! If you disagree with someone on something, keep it polite and remember the golden rule in life - Sometimes you have to just agree to disagree! :)

Thanks, guys!! :)

Files

Comments

Badger Kat

Greetings, Veggie and Woozle! Ch 28 - The feigned incompetence of the Hogwarts professors is glorious, they’re all so amazing! - Harry does not appear to have the self discipline or the desire to really clear his mind. Is this in any way influenced by Voldemort? - it is entirely possible that Snape has provided instructions that we haven’t seen, but I don’t really understand how to force someone out of your mind. He tells Harry to get his wand out, but surely this wouldn’t work while he’s asleep or with Voldemort, who is attacking from a distance. - Harry violating other people’s privacy again. Until you mentioned it, I never really picked up on how movie Harry can never do anything wrong. Snape’s anger is more justified in the book than if Harry had just accidentally seen the memory during the lessons. As always, thank you for all your hard work and remember to take care of yourself and Woozle!

Bram

Hallo Veggie, I absolutely love Stephen Fry's delivery of Filch's lines in his twisted enthusiasm for torturing children. That man is so sick. My takes may sometimes seem simple, but I absolutely love Fred and George. I'm truly convinced they mean well. I've known these stories since I was a kid, and at 29 I can still easily slip back into that childhood mindset and enjoy all the fun things Fred and George come up with. The description of the fireworks is absolutely amazing. I'm not dismissing the complexity or darker sides of the characters, but I often like to focus my comments on the moments that make me smile or laugh. "I could have gotten rid of them myself of course, but I wasn't sure wether or not I had the authority" 😂 The uproar around the school in this chapter is absolutely amazing. "He succeeded in nothing but thinking of a few more thinks he should've said to Cho about Marietta" Everyone has been in one of those situations sometime. Without going into detail about Snape's memory, it must be incredibly difficult for a 15-year-old boy to see his father at almost the same age, recognize so many similarities, while also realizing he was a bully and so different from himself. I hope the Noodle endured the heat well. And you of course! See you next time, Byeeee

Heather Judge

Hi Veggie! I like to think the students got the news about Dumbledoor's escape from the paintings, as a way for the previous headmasters to undermine Umbridge.

Dani Phantom

hello veggie! hello beautiful woozle! i hope you’re both staying cool and hopefully by the time this comes out, the heatwave has calmed down. i prepared this time because i knew i was going to miss last months, so i’m here early! fred and george’s firework prank is a bit better in the book than the movie, huh? we better see more of their creativity in the show! i can’t wait to see your take on harry and cho’s little argument. i see both sides but as discussed (in length) last book club, i personally think overall hermione was in the right. i’m very curious if i’m in the minority here and i can’t wait to see what others say, but i prefer the movie scene with snape’s memory. now don’t get me wrong, i wish we had the extended memory to give us context to james bullying snape, but i think it’s way more believable that harry would cast a protego (possibly as a natural reflex) during occlumency. is harry meddling and sometimes stupid, and can i totally see him sneaking into a penseive that he knows holds memories snape specifically didn’t want him to see? yes, i can, but HARRY! that’s so stupid. 😂 also, in response to your note on this book club: i love the waffle. keep it up. if we’re only getting 1 chapter at a time and i still get 5-6 hours of veggie yapping in my ear, i am a happy subscriber. and i don’t think you’re gloomy. you have your opinions and i like that you stand by them even when other people don’t agree with you! (and you’re also willing to have your opinions changed)

Alias93

‘‘‘I didn’t do it,’ said Harry stupidly’’. I love how the narration doesn’t mind making fun of Harry sometimes, it’s a nice feature of the books not being narrated in first person. Harry making the conscious decision to invade Snape’s privacy by looking into his memories is probably one of the worst things he does in the series, and I find his reasonning to justify it a bit flimsy. But then again, book Harry is far from perfect… Did you expect to get such a long and detailed scene in Snape’s memory? What did you think of Lily’s involvement in the fight between James and Snape? The movie immediately moved on after the memory as it didn’t have time to linger on it, and it’s never mentionned again. What impact do you think it will have on Harry in the book? From the ending of the chapter, the memory was enough to convince him that Snape was actually right about his father, which is a huge change in perspective for his character.

Jacqueline Chaiton

Hi Veggie (and Woozle)! Long time no comment. Hope you’re well! Hoooo boy. We’ve come to one of the most horrendous book to movie changes, right up there with “calmly” for me. Before I get started I will say, whether it’s the book or movie James and Sirius are 100% in the wrong here. Lupin is really disappointing as well. I’m going to try to keep this short, since most of my reasoning is stuff you will learn later on, but as you can probably guess by now, I absolutely hate this scene in the movie. They portray Snape as this loner with no friends who everyone makes fun of for no reason but that is absolutely not the case. You already know he was friends with Lily, but she’s not his only friend. I also hate how they made him seem so weak for ending the occlumency lessons. He has a real reason for it in the book, Harry once again being nosy and seeing something he had no right to see. We also saw the exact same scenario, Harry seeing Snape’s memories because he used a shield charm, in chapter 26! As I said, most of my reasoning comes later on in the book/series so I will leave this here. Looking forward to the rest of the book club, I promise I made it through your notes first 🤣

Noni

Hi Veggie Harry really needs to start respecting other people’s privacy and stop jumping into their memories. It was forgivable in Goblet of Fire because he didn’t know what it was, but this time he made a deliberate decision to invade Snapes’ memories. I don’t think anyone in the memory came out of it in a good light. It was a spiral of one bad, emotional response after another. Black is the most responsible for it as he started events for no good reason. But after that it was a very teenagery tit for tat exchange. I'm going to go against the grain and say do not listen to the full cast audio for your first listen. I've just listened to the first one and it was pretty good but there's an awful lot of background noise and sound effects going on that are distracting and could cause you to miss what is actually important. Not to mention the annoying sighs whenever a character was supposed to be fed up and Nevilles constant whimpering had me very frustrated. They are worth listening to but I would wait until you relisten (a must in order to catch all the clues that were left throughout the books).

S1lm4r1l (edited)

Comment edits

2026-09-07 04:00 We have arrived. The apocalypse. The most discussed chapter by a country mile. Potter and Black only attack Snape out of boredom, in the absence of anything else to do and because he was there. Lily says that Snape wasn't the only one they attacked, there are others. This idea that the Marauders followed Snape around bullying him just doesn't hold water. Nobody besides Lily lifts a finger to help Snape. She is the only person (aside from maybe Lupin) that thinks he doesn't deserve it. (Children can be cruel.) Snape attacks back using a spell capable of slicing open someone's cheek. Attacking back with a spell that could easily kill someone is a massive step over the line, even with the provocation. Malfoy calls Hermione a Mudblood in the 2nd book and Marcus Flint has to dive in front of Malfoy to stop the Gryffindor Quidditch team jumping on him. Even Hagrid says he doesn't blame Ron for trying to curse Malfoy. That term being met with violence is not unusual. I don't care what Harry did, a teacher should never violently throw children to the floor or throw glass jars at them. Never. "I need to know EVERYTHING! How else can I judge whether or not I need to know it!?" Harry truly suspects Snape is concealing important information. Harry had good reasons for doing what he did and people condemning him do so with the benefit of hindsight. It is astoundingly galling of Snape to expect Harry to respect his privacy after his own repeated invasions of Harry's privacy. After Snape's insults, embarrassing questions, sneering at Harry's inability to repel him for weeks on end and Snape thinks his privacy is inviolable? Come on man. You get the respect you give. Its an unpopular opinion, but I think Snape brought it on himself to a large extent in both instances. The expectation that Harry (a child) should always be the bigger man instead of Snape (an adult), always rankles.
2026-07-03 22:08 We have arrived. The apocalypse. The most discussed chapter by a country mile. Potter and Black only attack Snape out of boredom, in the absence of anything else to do and because he was there. Lily says that Snape wasn't the only one they attacked, there are others. This idea that the Marauders followed Snape around bullying him just doesn't hold water. Nobody besides Lily lifts a finger to help Snape. She is the only person (aside from maybe Lupin) that thinks he doesn't deserve it. (Children can be cruel.) Snape attacks back using a spell capable of slicing open someone's cheek. Attacking back with a spell that could easily kill someone if it hit them in the neck is a massive step over the line, even with the provocation. Malfoy calls Hermione a Mudblood in the 2nd book and Marcus Flint has to dive in front of Malfoy to stop the Gryffindor Quidditch team jumping on him. Even Hagrid says he doesn't blame Ron for trying to curse Malfoy. That term being met with violence is not unusual. I don't care what Harry did, a teacher should never throw children to the floor or throw glass jars at them. Never. "I need to know EVERYTHING! How else can I judge whether or not I need to know it!?" Harry truly suspects Snape is concealing important information. His true loyalty or information about Harry himself. Harry had good reasons for doing what he did and people condemning him do so with the benefit of hindsight. It is astoundingly galling of Snape to expect Harry to respect his privacy after his own repeated invasions of Harry's privacy. After Snape's insults, embarrassing questions, sneering at Harry's inability to repel him for weeks on end and Snape thinks his privacy is inviolable? Come on man. You get the respect you give. Its an unpopular opinion, but I think Snape brought it on himself to a large extent in both instances. The expectation that Harry (a child) should always be the bigger man instead of Snape (an adult), always rankles.

We have arrived. The apocalypse. The most discussed chapter by a country mile. Potter and Black only attack Snape out of boredom, in the absence of anything else to do and because he was there. Lily says that Snape wasn't the only one they attacked, there are others. This idea that the Marauders followed Snape around bullying him just doesn't hold water. Nobody besides Lily lifts a finger to help Snape. She is the only person (aside from maybe Lupin) that thinks he doesn't deserve it. (Children can be cruel.) Snape attacks back using a spell capable of slicing open someone's cheek. Attacking back with a spell that could easily kill someone if it hit them in the neck is a massive step over the line, even with the provocation. Malfoy calls Hermione a Mudblood in the 2nd book and Marcus Flint has to dive in front of Malfoy to stop the Gryffindor Quidditch team jumping on him. Even Hagrid says he doesn't blame Ron for trying to curse Malfoy. That term being met with violence is not unusual. I don't care what Harry did, a teacher should never throw children to the floor or throw glass jars at them. Never. "I need to know EVERYTHING! How else can I judge whether or not I need to know it!?" Harry truly suspects Snape is concealing important information. His true loyalty or information about Harry himself. Harry had good reasons for doing what he did and people condemning him do so with the benefit of hindsight. It is astoundingly galling of Snape to expect Harry to respect his privacy after his own repeated invasions of Harry's privacy. After Snape's insults, embarrassing questions, sneering at Harry's inability to repel him for weeks on end and Snape thinks his privacy is inviolable? Come on man. You get the respect you give. Its an unpopular opinion, but I think Snape brought it on himself to a large extent in both instances. The expectation that Harry (a child) should always be the bigger man instead of Snape (an adult), always rankles.

Dani Phantom

i very much like the sentiment behind “people condemning him do so with the benefit of hindsight”. i also think it was very stupid of harry to do, but who wasn’t an idiot at 15?!

K

Hi Veggie! I think the movies show Snape as a totally isolated loner kid being relentlessly bullied, but the books have a number of references to him being friends with future death eaters, being very into the dark arts, and expressing prejudiced values early on. The Marauders, especially Sirius and James, behave horribly here— but my read is that there is a lot of horrible behaviour happening from both sides during this time, and that Snape has probably been on the other end of this type of situation, likely ganging up on muggleborns. There is a common theme in these books of Harry’s heroes being torn down off their pedestals, and him seeing his father and godfather in this awful light is the first example.

Margarita Pizza

Remember when I said that disillusionment is a big theme in this book? I wish I could convey what it felt like to read this chapter when the book first came out. As a kid who was bullied myself, discovering that James and Sirius were bullies was genuinely as shocking and devastating a blow as many characters' deaths later in the series. Like Harry, I had idolized these guys for years. And just as Cho challenges Harry to forgive Marietta for her actions, we the audience are asked if we can forgive Harry's father figures for their actions. Personally, I can never stop thinking of this quote from A Series of Unfortunate Events: "People aren't either wicked or noble. They're like chef's salads, with good things and bad things chopped and mixed together in a vinaigrette of confusion and conflict."

Dani Phantom

i swear, lemony snicket gave me the moral compass and also the extended vocabulary that i have now.

Kunzite Blossom

I love that we get some context to the Marauders vs Snape, but Harry should NOT have done that regardless of how much Harry doesn't trust Snape. In Goblet it was one thing, he was curious and didn't know what it was. Plus it feels like Dumbledore wanted Harry to find it. This is not excusable. Harry should have just left. I get Snape being really mad, especially since he didn't know all of what Harry saw. For all he knew Harry could have seen something about working for Dumbledore or his love for Lily and then Voldemort see it through Harry. Snape could have been in big danger.

Triene

FWIW, I’ve never found your reactions negative and I really enjoy the waffle personally! It’s part of what makes you you, and therefore part of why I love your videos. You won’t please everyone no matter what. But do what feels right to you! Excited to listen to this!

Ирина Устюгова

Many people criticize Harry here, but note this: despite Snape being nothing but a bully to him from day one, and despite Harry's deep dislike of him, he still feels sorry for Snape. It really shows you how undeniably good Harry is. Also, I can't help but find it funny how Harry is just standing there, watching events unfold as if it's some movie, completely forgetting that Snape can come back at any moment. I think it's very natural to hate James and Sirius here on your first read — I surely did. But don't forget that they joined the fight for the less privileged just a few years later, and James gave his life in that fight, while Sirius lost his freedom for many years. By the way, did you catch why James was tracing the letters L. E.? Cho is too good of a friend to Marietta. Cho's line 'Well . . . we all got away, didn’t we?' is interesting, considering Dumbledore lost his position and was about to be thrown into Azkaban😁

Ирина Устюгова

Couldn't have said it better myself. Snape literally used Occlumency to punish Harry for accidentally breaking into his mind. He used the spell on the count of 'two', and it was clearly so strong that Harry couldn't even understand where he was after Snape ended it. Then Snape gets pissed because Harry went deeper into the Ministry. Like, come on, man, you knew what you were doing and you knew Harry was not going to be able to resist you.

Ирина Устюгова

They completely brushed off the fact that Snape was a Death Eater in the movies. Like it's not a big deal that he joined a group whose main goal was to kill and enslave innocent people and creatures. I am not even sure if it is mentioned past the fourth movie. So his story was transformed from an anti-hero who was given a path to redeem himself into a tragic hero who was bullied and used by the 'evil' James Potter and Albus Dumbledore.

Diego Zenhäusern

WFFTITWFF Veggie! To give my two cents on the Snape situation. I like that we get to see that Snape wasn't an innocent lone boy that was bullied but that he already had his problematic sides (e.g. calling Lily a mudblood). That said: I cant stress enough how clearly James and Sirius are the bullies and aggressors here! And that - at least from what we've seen in this memory - James actually seems to have been pretty much as arrogant and an a-hole as Snape always told Harry.😕 So as always: Snape (and many other characters) is complex and neither an irredeemable a-hole nor an inocent lamb. On a ligther note: The fact that the twins were able to bewitch their fireworks in a way that using normal spells on them would have other effects than expected will always be extremely impressive to me! Not only does it show how creative they are (a trait I have a deep lack of and are therefore always impressed by🙈😅) but again how gifted they can be with their magic if they're using it for something they're interested in.

Jo Winters

Hello Veggie! I hope you are doing great. I have to catch up on a few previous videos. It was a rough time lately for me. On the positive side, last year I mentioned that I found a dog basically as dead as possible while still barely alive. It's been 8 months, and just now, he is still recovering, but as of recently, he can run! Chapter 28 This chapter is one of the most misunderstood.. I see a lot of people online hating James, but that ignores an important point that the story is making. For example, we already know that Sirius put Lupin's secret in danger and put Snape in danger by telling him to go into the tunnel to the Shrieking Shack. He is not even sorry for that. Yet, hate for Sirius isn't as common. Why? Because we don't see him through a keyhole for one moment of his life. We see Snape bullying Neville, we know he was a death eater and yet that isn't his entire being. There is a reason why this story point with James is introduced. Harry is struggling with himself this whole book; it's part of his story arc. James is someone he idolises, and nobody who idolises others that way can fully accept themselves. What's happening here is a fall of an idol. Harry is meant to be very disappointed and then he has to accept his father wasn't perfect, yet still worthy of love. Then he can give grace to himself and stop thinking in extremes. Also, it's absurd when people think a man in his 30s (Snape) is acting badly towards kids in his care due to his conflicts with Marauders. It's just not an excuse.

John Phillips

I've been waiting for you to get to this chapter and I think a lot of other people have too. It is arguably one of the most debated chapters of all time and the movie cuts almost the entire memory that we see in the book and only shows flashes of it. Here's my thoughts (and they're long thoughts): James and Sirius were absolutely bullies to Snape and I don't think anyone in good faith can claim otherwise. Snape might not have been entirely innocent himself but there was no justification for them to pick on him the way they did. Some people in the fandom claim that they only picked on Snape because of his prejudiced views on muggles but I don't think so. I'll go into more detail much later in the final book. Lupin was also complicit and did nothing to stop James and Sirius when he could've. Pettigrew is a little unclear but I think it's implied he joined James and Sirius in their bullying of Snape. On the topic of Harry, I understand why he looked at Snape's memory (he was still angry about his argument with Cho and he doesn't like Snape at all), but that wasn't a justification and Snape had every right to be angry when he caught Harry in the pensieve. At least Harry now knows his dad wasn't exactly a saint though and you can tell Harry isn't happy about what he saw.

Alias93

I wonder if Snape deliberately made it so the first memory that came up was this one just in case this situation happened, since he knew it would keep Harry occupied for a while and prevent him from seeing other memories that could have far worse consequences with Harry not having mastered occlumency.

Alias93

Harry might not trust Snape's allegiance, but the only "justification" we're given as to why Harry chose to go into Snape's memories is that "he might have information about the department of mysteries", which is something he would have as a member of the order, not necessarily as Voldemort's spy. It feels more like Harry is trying to come up with something to justify his impulse to look into the pensieve, it's not a calculated move on his part, especially in the state of mind he is in at the moment.

S1lm4r1l

@Dani I think it's another example of Harry's selflessness, he's willing to risk Snape's anger if he gets closer to understanding where Snape's loyalties lie.

S1lm4r1l

@Alias Harry thinks to himself that Snape is putting things into the Pensieve he doesn't want Harry to see. Its only after that thought that Harry wonders whether there's information on the DOM in the Pensieve. If I were dreaming about a corridor every night and everyone around me was stonewalling, I'd want a peek. As far as Harry is concerned, he's looking for information that concerns him. Yes breaking into a filing cabinet is bad, but if you're trying to look at your own personal information, information that others are deliberately keeping from you, that's a bit more justified.

Alias93

The problem is, Harry saw that the memory in question was happening inside the great hall even before going in, and once he realized he was inside a memory of Snape as a student, he must have known that he wouldn't be finding any answers there. If he was really after useful information, he should have gone out and look for another memory. Come to think of it, did he even know how to get out? Because if not, he was guaranteed to get caught eventually...

Madikuma95

Considering how angry Snape was, I doubt he wanted Harry to see it at all. 🤔

Madikuma95

Since I'm writing on the 4th of July, fireworks are on my mind! I especially love the winged piglets; I imagine they're equally cute and dazzling. 😁 It's intriguing that the Pensieve can record all the events surrounding someone's memory, even if he or she doesn't seem to personally see or hear it. Do you think Lily was really about to smile at Snape being bullied, or was that just Harry's interpretation? And how did Lily and James ever end up together, if this was how they started out?

Andrew K

Hey Veggie! Hope you’re well. Umbridge asks Harry about Sirius’ whereabouts when questioning him. It makes me wonder what the Ministry actually believes about Black. Fudge didn’t believe Harry’s story of Black’s innocence, so they still think him to be a Death Eater and violent murderer, but they also think Harry is best pals with him despite Harry’s history with Voldemort. What do you think the Minister’s actual opinion is on Black, because their stance doesn’t make sense to me. Enough will be said about Snape/Harry so I won’t add to the discussion and give you a break from it! But I have to say, James Potter comes across as so arrogant and the worst sort of teenager. I really appreciate the last line of this chapter where Harry accepts that Snape was right about his father’s arrogance, and that he doesn’t try to defend it. P.S. I agree about how soulless WWE is right now. However the El Grande Americano vs. El Grande Americano match is worth watching, and anything involving Oba Femi is fantastic. I’m getting my main wrestling fix from AEW - it’s not perfect but it feels full of life and you can tell they’re actually trying to put on good and enjoyable shows for fans.

S1lm4r1l

The memory being in the Great Hall doesn't necessarily indicate that it'll show Snape as a student. Besides, he was almost immediately distracted by his father and the other Marauders. Seeing him in the flesh would be very different from a photograph, even if it was moving. I don't think Harry ever exits the Pensieve of his own will. Its always someone else doing it for him. Perhaps Harry was prepared to take the risk, or that he'd figure it out later.

S1lm4r1l

The bigger question is why Snape removed that memory and put it in the Pensieve in the first place? Why would he want to keep that memory safe? Considering Snape's proficiency with Occlumency it seems doubtful that Harry would be able to glean anything meaningful if he did catch flashes of it practicing with Snape.

Garfnob

Greetings, Chapter – 28 - This chapter makes the point system pointless. What incentive is there to be good when points can be docked arbitrarily by other students? - Fred and George off the leash. This will be fun. - Even if Harry drank the truth potion is could answer the questions. Harry did not know the answers to the questions. Also he could not have given the location of grimmauld place even if he wanted to. Harry is not the secret keeper. - Snape’s past might be an explanation for some of his behavior, but it is not an excuse. - Why did Snape put the memory that far back in the pensieve? Surely it was just the bullying part he wanted to show Harry.

Kunzite Blossom

@Alias93, Hmm is it possible to chose what appears first? @Madikuma95, I never said Snape wanted Harry to see anything. Only that perhaps Dumbledore wanted Harry to in Goblet. (If you watch SCB they have a whole theory on Dumbledore having wanted Harry to find the pensive) @S1im4r1l, I actually have a few thoughts as to why. 1) I think of how the film shows it. Harry used a strong rebound/protective spell (I think protego) which let him into Snapes mind instead. Perhaps something like that COULD happen. Snape likely wanted to protect himself to not be embarrassed if Harry figured out he loved Lily, or to even save humiliation that he was bullied or to protect his double agent status (If Harry saw anything like that, and Voldemort got into Harrys mind, Voldemort would know Snape was betraying him). 2) It could also be emotional control. Maybe taking those memories out helps keep Snape more level headed and less distracted. Part of occlumency is keeping a clear head. While Snape is one of the most skilled users, even I would assume with those memories, perhaps he didn't want to risk any memories surfacing while in lessons face to face with Harry.

Maria

Hi Veggie! Don't beat yourself up for being too negative! I think we all want to hear your genuine opinion on things. I'm not going to talk about Snape's memory as I'm sure that's going to be discussed a lot by others. A couple of other observations: 1. I love the twins' fireworks! And, it's even funnier that the other teachers can't get rid of them without Umbridge's help, lol. In my opinion, the twins strike a good balance here of being mischievous without actually hurting anyone. 2. What do you think about Harry and Cho's argument? I think they're both too extreme in their viewpoints, but I tend to side more with Harry. Knowing how cruel Umbridge can be, Marietta really did put all of the other DA members in a lot of danger. 3. I think Umbridge is getting sloppy in her villainy at this point. Letting students take points from other students and maybe doing something to Harry's tea is going to far. Realistically, there's no way the ministry would get away with this for long. Even in the wizarding world, this is going to raise red flags for parents. 4. I can't recall if this has come up before, but did you notice that Fudge's middle name is Oswald?

Music Here (edited)

Comment edits

2026-09-07 04:00 (will edit) One of the best chapters in the series! Why do you think it's called "Snape's Worst Memory"? James and Sirius seem to bully Snape regularly, so what makes THIS his worst memory? -Would Harry have drunk what Umbridge gave him without Moody (and indirectly Barty Crouch Jr’s) influence? -Flitwick not being sure he had the "authority" to remove the fireworks is hilarious. -Lupin is the only Marauder who doesn't laugh at Snape. I appreciate that, and it fits with the adult Lupin, who's always been respectful to Snape. BUT he also lets the bullying happen. In Prisoner, Lupin admits his cowardice and shame over not telling Dumbledore Sirius was an Animagus. Being a bit of a coward is a consistent flaw of Lupin's. -Snape calling Lily a mudblood was inexcusable despite the dramatic moment. Right after that, Lily tells him to wash his pants and calls him "Snivellus." Lily & Snape didn't seem to be on great terms even before this moment, which is interesting. -Fred and George shoving Montague into a Vanishing cabinet is a surprisingly important detail that you should keep in mind! The same cabinet was also briefly mentioned in Chamber. -I love that Hogwarts itself is rejecting Umbridge by sealing Dumbledore's office. Hermione isn't the only one "feeling a bit rebellious." 😁
2026-07-04 20:55 One of the best chapters in the series! Why do you think it's called "Snape's Worst Memory"? James and Sirius seem to bully Snape regularly, so what makes THIS his worst memory? -Flitwick not being sure he had the "authority" to remove the fireworks is hilarious. -Lupin is the only Marauder who doesn't laugh at Snape. I appreciate that, and it fits with the adult Lupin, who's always been respectful to Snape. BUT he also lets the bullying happen. In Prisoner, Lupin admits his cowardice and shame over not telling Dumbledore Sirius was an Animagus. Being a bit of a coward is a consistent flaw of Lupin's. -Right after Snape (unjustifiably) calls Lily a Mudblood, Lily tells him to wash his pants and calls him "Snivellus." Lily & Snape did not seem to be on great terms even before this moment, which is interesting... -Fred & George shoving Montague into a Vanishing cabinet is a surprisingly important detail that you should keep in mind! The same cabinet was also briefly mentioned in Chamber. -I love that Hogwarts itself is rejecting Umbridge by sealing Dumbledore's office. Hermione isn't the only one "feeling a bit rebellious." 😁

One of the best chapters in the series! Why do you think it's called "Snape's Worst Memory"? James and Sirius seem to bully Snape regularly, so what makes THIS his worst memory? -Flitwick not being sure he had the "authority" to remove the fireworks is hilarious. -Lupin is the only Marauder who doesn't laugh at Snape. I appreciate that, and it fits with the adult Lupin, who's always been respectful to Snape. BUT he also lets the bullying happen. In Prisoner, Lupin admits his cowardice and shame over not telling Dumbledore Sirius was an Animagus. Being a bit of a coward is a consistent flaw of Lupin's. -Right after Snape (unjustifiably) calls Lily a Mudblood, Lily tells him to wash his pants and calls him "Snivellus." Lily & Snape did not seem to be on great terms even before this moment, which is interesting... -Fred & George shoving Montague into a Vanishing cabinet is a surprisingly important detail that you should keep in mind! The same cabinet was also briefly mentioned in Chamber. -I love that Hogwarts itself is rejecting Umbridge by sealing Dumbledore's office. Hermione isn't the only one "feeling a bit rebellious." 😁

Sten4321

Hi Veggie My first comment here, hope you are well. I really love Freds and Georges fireworks, and the teachers reaction. I think most of the reat of this chapter will be discussed at length so i will just try to ask 2 questions: 1. Why is this Snape's "worst" memory? And 2. What kind of spell did Snape use to cut James cheek on a near miss.

S1lm4r1l

"Lily & Snape didn't seem to be on great terms even before this moment, which is interesting." - The thing that Snape defenders forget. It wasn't like their relationship was completely fine before this. It was clearly on shaky ground before this.

S1lm4r1l

I think 2 is more likely than 1. That memory wouldn't show that Snape loved Lily. Voldemort is already aware of Snape and Lily's relationship, he just underestimates it and what Snape is willing to do for it. If Snape was able to explain away his request to spare Lily's life, there's no reason to think he couldn't tell the same lie again.

Kunzite Blossom

That particular memory no, you can't tell Snape loved Lily. But i'm sure there are other memories in the pensive than just that. Though I fully agree Voldemort would underestimate Snape's love for Lily even if he saw a memory. As I said, I think Snape would want to hid that fact from Harry not Voldemort. It would be more dangerous if Harry saw a memory of Snape working for Dumbledore and Voldemort saw that through Harry.

S1lm4r1l

Oh I agree, if Harry saw that Snape loved Lily and Voldemort got inside Harry's head, that's bad news for Snape.

Dodolulupepe

Hi Veggie! I want to mention a few details I think nobody's alluded to yet in Snape's Worst Memory. I don't know how to preface this, but this will talk about some very dark topics. Harry saw Snape as moving in a "twitchy manner that recalled a spider". Snape had just finished a super important exam, yet this evident fear (shown by him having such an instant response when the Marauders revealed themselves) was more powerful. I think he constantly was terrified of exactly the kind of attack that ended up coming, probably compounded by his abuse at home. He was intently staring at the OWL paper to try to dissociate himself... Then came the attack, just because Sirius said he was bored. And when Lily asked what Snape has done, James only said "it's more the fact that he exists." I know this is controversial, but it must mean he wasn't yet doing, at this point in his life, anything dark enough to be known for it. All we see James hate him for are his looks and manner... Then (this is important, not saying this as a funny thing) when Snape was hanged upside down for the first time, it revealed his bare legs and underwear. When James hanged Snape for the second time, for the crime of James being upset at Lily's rejection, he said "who wants to see me take off Snivelly's pants?" and the memory ended right there. James meant his underpants; that was all Snape was wearing. If Harry hadn't been pulled out, the memory would have continued to see him sexually displayed, like the Robertses were in the Quidditch World Cup. And when Snape pulled him out, I think he thought Harry had joined in with his father in witnessing this demeaning public humiliation, laughing at it with him. Of course, we know Harry has a much more empathetic heart, but what else would you expect Snape to think, when he only saw James in him? Snape's reaction was deeply filled with trauma. Gripping Harry's arm tightly, lips shaking, face white, teeth bared, and then exploding in anger. Snape had done many bad things before, but I honestly can't find it in myself to blame him for his anger here. I know this was extremely long and opinionated... I just feel really strongly for Snape in this chapter.

Ирина Устюгова

S1lm4r1l, Oh, Snape defenders go so much further than this. I still haven't recovered from a certain YouTube video about how it was all Lily's fault that their friendship ended — claiming she was a terrible friend because her mouth almost twitched and because she later fell in love with Snape's bully. It still pisses me off when I think about it. Like, Lily is literally a part of an oppressed group, and Snape is friends with people who don't think she deserves to live. Snape is planning to become a Death Eater at this point, which means he is planning to actively strip people like Lily of their basic human rights. And yet, he still claims that he is her friend and even thinks that he loves her... That's so weird and wrong on so many levels.

skinnyp

Hello Veggie! Fred and George have become a nice example of students that are very gifted but simply don’t fit the education system. They invent magical products that even Hogwarts professors struggle to remove, yet they’re considered rather poor students. I found Umbridge’s conversation with Harry really interesting. She reveals that she saw Sirius in the fire. Why do you think she tells Harry that? Is she trying to intimidate him, or does she just enjoy showing him how much she knows? I won’t talk about the memory itself because others have already done it. but it was heartbreaking for Harry. This is probably the first time he truly understands why Snape treats him the way he does. It still doesn’t excuse Snape’s behavior as an adult and teacher, but Harry finally sees that there was actually a reason behind all that hatred. Have a great and hopefully not too hot day. Until next time! PS.: really funny that Umbridge shouted „don’t stun them“ to filch, even though she was the one who just casted the spell and Filch is a Squib who couldn’t have cast Stupify anyway.

Alexis Burrows

Are you also one of those people that says that abused children should be rescued because if not 'their entire lives will be destroyed'? Well, here you go. The kid's life was destroyed by abuse, both at home AND at school. If all the kid with the destroyed life has to do is reach adulthood, then why bother rescuing them in the first place? You can't have it BOTH ways.

Alexis Burrows

Snape was SUPPOSED to invade Harry's privacy. THAT was the whole point of the lessons. THIS is how Occlumency works.

Alexis Burrows

Maybe that was karma. IRL, the Marauders would have been prosecuted for assault and S.A., plus Sirius would have gone down for attempted Murder.

Alexis Burrows

We know Snape never killed anyone, because of what he said about his own soul when Dumbledore asked him to do the fatal deed. Besides, it is not unusual for abused/abandoned/bullied children to try to find a group to fit into. Hell, even healthy kids do that.

Alexis Burrows

I see a lot of James and Sirius apologists in these comments. Let me ask them this. If it was a girl who was hung upside down and had her drawers ripped off, leaving everything out there for the World to see, would they still feel the same way?

S1lm4r1l

He's supposed to be teaching Harry Occlumency, there's a difference between using Legilimency on him and continually viewing all of Harry's most intimate memories. And the periods in between? Asking him embarrassing questions, making snide comments, sneering at Harry's inability to defend himself. Snape did all that for his own amusement. Snape's contributions to those Occlumency lessons have more to do with Snape wanting to bully a student instead of educating them. Frankly, Dumbledore would've been better off teaching Ron and Hermione how to perform Legilimency and having Harry practice with them.

S1lm4r1l

"I know this is controversial, but it must mean he hadn't been doing, up to this point in his life, anything profoundly dark." I don't think this is true at all. According to Lupin, Snape arrived at school knowing more curses than most 7th years and was up to his eyeballs in the Dark Arts according to Sirius. Lupin says after the Battle of the 7 Potters that "Sectumsempra was always a speciality of Snape's" indicating that Lupin witness him use it repeatedly. The idea that a group including Lucius Malfoy, the Black sisters, Mulciber, Barty Crouch Jnr weren't using dark magic at school seems laughably naive. Snape literally attacks back with a spell capable of inflicting flesh wounds on others. We know he invented or reinvented Sectumsempra and wrote "For enemies" next to it. To say that Snape wasn't involved in "anything profoundly dark" at this point in his life contradicts almost everything we are told about Snape at school.

Ирина Устюгова

But he is not a girl. He is not a part of an oppressed group that has been raped and killed by men for centuries, and is still deprived of autonomy over their own bodies even in the most progressive countries. I really dislike this argument because it's often used by misogynistic men to imply that there is some sort of 'double standard' going on, or even that women have a 'privilege' of being taken more seriously. That's simply not the case. Oppressors attacking each other and oppressors attacking the oppressed will always be perceived differently. And honestly, misogyny is the oldest and most ignored form of oppression.

Ирина Устюгова

Well, Snape actually helped murder an innocent family (not just attempted), so by your own logic, he should have also been locked up in Azkaban🤷

Ирина Устюгова

I am sorry, but being bullied is no excuse for participating in a genocide. Sirius also grew up in an abusive family, but he didn't become a Death Eater. Also, 'we know Snape never killed anyone' is a very shaky argument. Sure, he personally probably never raised his wand and never cast the Killing Curse. But he repeated a prophecy to his boss that he knew would lead to the death of an innocent family or child. And he was perfectly okay with it—until he learned that his crush was involved.

Alexis Burrows

Well, there IS a double-standard, and men have most certainly been raped and killed by other men. (Obviously, the rape bit is more difficult for women to carry out, but the murder bit has been done to men BY women a good number of times). This still happens in certain countries today, and not just in times of war either. Are you implying that the Marauders were paragons of virtue, btw? IRL they would ALL have been prosecuted in Court. Besides, to bring in 'modern' talking-points is not the point of this particular crime - because crime it was - the point is how many people seem to simply dismiss this as unimportant because it was 'JUST' a boy it happened to. I think your misandry is showing, Irina.

Dodolulupepe

I think most of that would’ve been true after the 5th year. Why didn’t any of his death eater friends defend him in this memory, if he’d already been so well entrenched? The sectumsempra is written in his 6th year book, probably meaning he invented it then. Why would Lucius and co. have accepted Snape into their group when he was just a first or second year? He was half blood of a poor rural background, quite the opposite of what pure bloods admire. I imagine he’d have to have developed his reputation strongly before they took him in, only more towards the later part of his school life. And I can’t see there being much overlap between his friendship with Lily and his friendship, if you can call it that, with the death eaters. There was discord about it with Lily in their fifth year (from the DH memories), that was likely when Snape had started getting into that group properly. The “arrived at school knowing more dark curses than half the seventh years” reads to me like an embellished rumor. Looking back on Snape’s earlier years worse to justify the marauders’ bullying to himself from the get go. If he really had such a reputation for dark spells during the time of Snape’s Worst Memory already, would none of the Marauders have pointed it out?

Ирина Устюгова

Well, we will have to disagree on that. There is no such thing as misandry as a form of systemic oppression against men; there has never been a single period in history when women held the institutional power to oppress men. Men being mistreated by other, more privileged men is a completely different dynamic—it is a case of men suffering under a system they themselves created (patriarchy). You cannot compare this to misogyny and the historical suffering of women. Furthermore, even men who suffer due to patriarchy rarely want to dismantle the system or share power with women; they usually just want a better position within that system for themselves. Also, I don't see anyone in the comments dismissing what James and Sirius did. Everyone seems to agree that it was a horrible thing to do; they just don't think it defines their whole personality. You also bring up courts a lot but ignore the fact that Snape would also be prosecuted for his crimes. And I can tell you this: participating in a Nazi-like organization is a far more severe crime than a teenage boy pulling down another teenage boy's underpants. I know you're going to say that Snape was bullied and abused, but a real court does not forgive crimes just because the criminal had a rough childhood. James and Sirius would be prosecuted by a youth court that probably wouldn't even classify this as SA. I know in theory it falls under that, but realistically, how many cases do you know where teenagers end up on a sex offender registry for something like that? Meanwhile, Snape would definitely end up in prison for many years for participating in a radical organization like the Death Eaters. Still, a great discussion, my friend. I hope we can keep it civil.

S1lm4r1l

Barty Crouch Jnr didn't kill anyone until he murdered his father.

S1lm4r1l

"I think most of that would’ve been true after the 5th year." Why though? "Why didn’t any of his death eater friends defend him in this memory, if he’d already been so well entrenched?" None of them were present. The memory says it was the Marauders, Snape and a collection of girls. Besides, Lucius Malfoy, Bellatrix and Narcissa had probably left school by then. (Lucius Malfoy is wearing a Prefect's Badge when Snape gets sorted.) Regulus Black and Barty Crouch Jnr would've been a year or two younger than Snape. "The sectumsempra is written in his 6th year book, probably meaning he invented it then." The spell he uses in this memory bears a marked similarity to Sectumsempra. "Why would Lucius and co. have accepted Snape into their group when he was just a first or second year? He was half blood of a poor rural background, quite the opposite of what pure bloods admire. I imagine he’d have to have developed his reputation strongly before they took him in, only more towards the later part of his school life." Lucius Malfoy is openly friendly with him the moment he sits down at the Slytherin table. His ability and dark arts knowledge would've warmed them to him pretty quickly. "And I can’t see there being much overlap between his friendship with Lily and his friendship, if you can call it that, with the death eaters. There was discord about it with Lily in their fifth year (from the DH memories), that was likely when Snape had started getting into that group properly." We're told over and over that Snape had Slytherin friends, most of whom grew up to be Death Eaters. Lily says that she has made excuses to her friends "for years" and that none of her friends can understand why she hangs out with him. She openly questions the behaviour of people like Mulciber. All indicating there was considerable overlap. "The “arrived at school knowing more dark curses than half the seventh years” reads to me like an embellished rumor." We see in this memory that Snape didn't take things lying down. If the Marauders were constantly attacking and bullying him. It follows that he would've fought back. Even in the memory we do see Snape spits out a combination of curses and swear words, but nothing happens because his wand is 10 feet away. "If he really had such a reputation for dark spells during the time of Snape’s Worst Memory already, would none of the Marauders have pointed it out?" Ah, but perhaps they did. "Its more the fact that he exists if you know what I mean." Potter could just as easily mean Dark Arts users in general, instead of Snape specifically. Voldemort's campaign against the Ministry would've been ongoing for 20+ years by this point. Attempting to pretend Snape only truly fell in with the Death Eaters after Lily ended their friendship is an attempt to absolve Snape and/or blame Lily for his becoming a Death Eater. At some point Snape is responsible for his own actions. Regardless of how he was treated by those around him.

Dodolulupepe

The spell in the memory is a lot weaker, probably a very early precursor to sectumsempra. The point about Lucius is fair. I still think he wouldn't have been able to get in quite that quickly though. "made excuses to her friends for years" - from the get-go, he's a Slytherin, and he probably wasn't the most pleasant boy either. It doesn't mean he was a major part of a death eater gang in his first few years yet. >We see in this memory that Snape didn't take things lying down. Yes, of course? Why wouldn't he have fought back, when the Marauders clearly were well-practiced in ganging up on him? Why would he have such a fear and an instant reaction if this exact type of situation had not happened so much and he'd been outnumbered every time? Even if some Slytherins could've defended him other times, I'm sure the Marauders would know to pick fights with him when nobody could come to his aid. "Your father would never attack me unless it was four on one" I don't think Snape would lie about this, when he takes affronts at his pride the way he does. >Potter could just as easily mean Dark Arts users in general If he did, that'd be a very strange way of putting it. I really can't see that reading I never absolved Snape of becoming a Death Eater, and definitely didn't blame Lily? (Snape's at fault for the end of the friendship, because he couldn't put his priorities well, and fell in more and more with the crowd of Death Eaters. JKR said as much in an interview, and it's why I said the overlap, imo, would have mainly been in the 5th year.) I don't know why you thought I have said or implied any of those things at the bottom. Nor that Snape wasn't responsible for his own actions. I just think that the Marauders' bullying of him came far before any Death Eater aligned activity did for Snape. And that's not absolving him of anything? The chapter being reviewed is just one with the sole focus on the Marauders' bullying on him, so that is what I wrote the focus of.

S1lm4r1l

I think he was adjacent enough to the future Death Eaters for his character to be a significant factor in other people disliking him. "Your father would never attack me unless it was four on one." - But this is a lie. We know this is a lie. Lupin is reading his book and Wormtail is still sitting by the tree. He has to edge around Lupin to get a good look at Potter, Black and Snape. According to Lily, Snape was well on his way to becoming a Death Eater when she ended their friendship. I don't think Lily would discard Snape very easily unless she had very good reasons for doing so, especially given that she resists peer pressure from her friends to do so for years. Whilst you didn't do that, there is definitely a common theme with Snape defenders of trying to blame Lily. I think Snape's fascination with the Dark Arts came long before he ever met the Marauders and that he'd have ended up a Death Eater regardless of whether they bullied him or not. Of course the bullying didn't help.

felipeluzz

Hi Veggie! I look forward to hearing your thoughts on Harry and Cho's discussion. I always felt like Marieta was Cho's version of Ron, and I think if the roles were reversed, Harry would absolutely defend Ron, even if he knew he had done something wrong; he would not want someone else trash-talking his best friend. In fact, Harry himself makes the Ron parallel when he brings up the fact that Ron's dad also works in the ministry. Having said that, I was watching your review of the Harry and Cho date chapter, and you said that while Harry had Ron and Hermione to talk to, Cho had no one, and several comments also brought this up. So maybe I have the wrong impression and Cho and Marieta relationship is not supposed to be that close after all?

S1lm4r1l

Perhaps Potter and Black should have bullied Snape's kid instead.

Dodolulupepe

To many other students, purely being in Slytherin would be adjacent enough to the Death Eaters to be a factor in disliking someone. we already see it enough in Harry's years, and inter-house enmity was probably even worse in the Marauders' years, given that it was right during the first war. >according to Lily, Snape was well on his way to becoming a Death Eater when she ended their friendship by the very end, sure. you yourself are saying that you don't think Lily would discard him very easily unless she had very good reasons for doing so, resisting peer pressure for years. Doesn't that say that for years, he hadn't been so entrenched yet? we see these two arguments from that period of a few months in the 5th year (the first one a few days after the Whomping Willow incident, and then the one after SWM), showing that's when it all broke down, and when Snape made the decisions he most regrets (that's what the memories are showing after all). >I think Snape's fascination with the Dark Arts came long before he ever met the Marauders and that he'd have ended up a Death Eater regardless of whether they bullied him or not. I can grant the first one, but I really don't think the second one would be true. At least, not as likely. Snape's very independent normally, I don't think the Death Eaters could've pulled him in if they couldn't have made him feel like they were the only ones to "protect him" at the school. What I imagine happened is that they had been trying to get him into their group maybe for a year or two, and he'd have been pressured into going along, hanging out with them...and then SWM happened and he called Lily mudblood, and that along with the final argument with Lily after (wrongfully) being the sealing blow in his mind. In the sense that he felt he had gone too far down the path and he'd made his choice. Basically, I don't think he went down the Death Eater path in the slightest because that was somehow the most enjoyable in a neutral environment. His father at home, and the Marauders at school, were making his life hell. He didn't feel (again wrongly, and I'm not saying there aren't so many better choices he could've taken in his school years) like there was any other choice. It's how all extremist groups recruit. Sure they get some fanatics, but mostly they get a lot of broken people.

Dodolulupepe

to me Marietta feels like a friend she made just in this year, in OOTP, after Cedric's death. If they were as close as Harry and Ron, she wouldn't have from the get go been so apprehensive to join the DA. I think what happened is that Marietta would've been a huge comfort to Cho after Cedric's death. She would've then seen Cho's fancying Harry, and would've believed that that was why she wanted to join the DA (and that being with Harry would repeat the same heartbreak she had with Cedric) - went along with her, but become increasingly frustrated until she couldn't take it anymore. just my interpretation though

felipeluzz

Well, it couldn't have been only this year, as she was in goblet of fire, one of the friends that giggled when Harry tried to invite Cho to the yule ball.

Dodolulupepe

Are you sure you should write that you think it’s Sectumsempra? This might be a minor spoiler depending on what he remembers from the following movie

S1lm4r1l

You can read these things a variety of different ways. Obviously inter-house enmity does exist, but if Snape only gradually developed his Death Eater tendencies, and was at his least Death Eater-ish during his 1st year, that would've gone a long way to creating a positive impression, especially if he was regularly socialising with Lily and presumably her friends. We know that Lily's friends didn't like Snape at all. In those memories, we see that Snape before Hogwarts says that being Muggleborn doesn't make a difference, and in the space of 5 years is calling Lily a Mudblood. One of the main reasons she refuses to accept his apology is he calls everyone else of her birth a Mudblood. That's quite a change. Snape was fascinated by the Dark Arts before arriving at school, which factored into his ostracization and falling in with the future Death Eaters, which radicalised him to the point that Lily wanted nothing more to do with him. I think Snape was impressionable and desperate to fit in somewhere that he was radicalised pretty quickly after arriving at Hogwarts. We know that radicalisation does not take years. It can happen in months or even weeks. I don't disagree that Snape is a broken person, but I think he was further along than Lily even knew, I'd be amazed if he wasn't already keeping things from her throughout their 5th year. We know Lily was bringing up things his Slytherin friends were doing or attempting to do, and Snape responds defensively. I don't see why Snape would defend his fellow Slytherins if he didn't feel that he was guilty by association. Lily's attitude in the aftermath of the Mudblood incident wasn't "Choose them or me." it was "You're too far gone, and I'm giving up on you." Snape outed himself. Showed his true face. And her response was "Yeah, I'm done."

Florian

Hi Veggie, great chapter again, my favourite line in this chapter is professor flitwick interaction with umbridge. The marauders are really quite careless with their secrets. If all this was in snapes memories, he overheared the entire conversation. so probably a lot of others could too. I know Snape knew about the werewolf thing by then, but talking this loudly about walking around with a werewolf each month, what was sirius thinking.

Helena Suarez

Hi Veggie! I’m just getting started on your book reviews and I’m very excited to jump into the journey, even if I’m so so so late :) One thing I want to point out about this chapter that it is uncomfortable. And it is supposed to be uncomfortable! So don’t worry about trying to spin it in any way. This chapter makes us sit with, and really acknowledge the duality of pretty much all of the characters in it. Harry’s growing up, and the characters are all becoming more complex as he begins to deal with the world in less black and white terms. But because this chapter is uncomfortable, one thing that I sometimes see first time readers do is begin to question the objectivity and accuracy of the Pensieve, believing that because these are Snape’s memories, they can’t be trusted as an objective perspective on the situation. However, that’s just not how we see Pensieves work in the series (and I am more than happy to lay out the reason why because I *love* chatting about this kind of stuff). The reason why I bring this up—even preemptively—is that knowing that memories viewed in the Pensieve normally are not influenced by the perspective of the owner is kinda crucial for key plot points coming up in the next two books :) Finally, I have a question for you that might be fun to theorize about :) a few chapters ago we saw Snape extract not one but three memories and place them in the Pensieve. We’ve seen one, and we’ve seen Snape’s reaction to it… What do you think the other two might contain?

Dodolulupepe

It’s fair you see it that way, I don’t think I have much more new to say that isn’t speculating too much or repeating. It was a good discussion though, thanks :)

Sten4321

S1lm4r1l: in the memory before Hogwarts, were we see Snape saying that being Muggleborn doesn't make a difference, there is a distinct pause before he says it, that could be interpreted as him stopping himself, as he looks on the girl he has a crush on, and internalising that "she is one of the good ones, and as such doesn't really count." and only tells her that as a way to spare her feelings.

Dodolulupepe

I don’t read it like that personally, if anything he knew muggle borns by many wizards were treated as second class but decided he didn’t want to tell her that to not bring her spirits for Hogwarts down. (Also “one of the good ones” the only wizards he knew were his mother and her I would say) It can be interpreted in multiple ways, not that your view of it is invalid This is already a long chain of replies so let’s not have it go even longer on stuff that doesn’t have to do with this chapter if that’s ok… oh wait I didn’t see the “slimaril:” part at the start in the notification, but I don’t want people to get a notif for this and it be deleted though if that’s ok. this long argument chain has just caused me some anxiety ._.

Dodolulupepe

Marietta’s named there? Oh darn that’s my bad then

S1lm4r1l

@Sten You could interpret it like that. I've always thought the pause was more "It matters to some people, but not to me." You're correct that Snape frequently tells Lily what he thinks she wants to hear.

felipeluzz

Not by name, no, but in the chapter when they are forming the DA harry's narration reads "Cho and one of her usually giggling girlfriends..."

Jake M

S'mae Vegoozle! Chapter 28 Well occlumency lasted a long time after Dumbledore left, didn't it? And just as you'd finally got the hang of pronouncing it 🙄 I wonder if the news of Dumbledore's escape is spread via the portraits? It's not the first time the whole school has known about what is supposed to be a complete secret. Though given the teachers' disrespect towards Umbridge in this chapter, I can't help thinking McGonnagall might have told it out of solidarity... The way Umbridge says Harry wouldn't be "at large" almost implies she thinks him a criminal. What do you think offering him tea was about? Yet again, Harry's nosiness drives the plot! If only he stayed in his bedroom, making no noise and pretending he doesn't exist. But don't worry Harry, it's only a pensieve memory... The O.W.L.s are not what they seem! 😏 Much love to you both!

Jake M

10 points to [insert house here] for anyone who gets the reference! XD

Jake M

*SPOILER* I would say, is it really that blatantly *drugs* if you're not thinking about it? All Harry says was he shouldn't accept drinks from his enemy, but if Veggie doesn't recall veritaserum (as he admitted last video, he forgets certain things) he might not recall the Wizard drug and think it was magically enchanted instead? It's not until Snape says it later in the book that it's confirmed to be that.

Dara Jeeling

It's certainly not an excuse hiwever... said it before as someone who was mde to walk in Snapes shoes in school, because I prefered learning to whatever 12 yera old girls did... I struggled a LOT and I had a home that backed me up (even when the teachers at the boarding school turned a blind eye at the situation, even when I got shaved bare on the head and the face by force. No one evergot really punished - until I decided to punch the leader in her face in class. The teacher also turned a blind eye on that one and told her, it was deserved.... But believe mme, I had a LOT of sessions to overcome it. So it is for sure no excuse, but it can be hard, if you never get help and the wizarding world does not call "phschology help" to me... Also... I think that is kind of one of the big mistakes JK did. After making sure we mistrusted Snape in book 1 and he got redeemed she needed to up his game, o people would not say "well, seen it before" and I think she overdid her idea, Severus Snape is not a nie person he is not a good teacher

Schaumkus

Hey Veggie, I have not commented in a long while, but always kept up with the bookclub. I wanted to comment on the last chapter, but was not able to at that time. About Kinglsey changing Marietta’s memory. It made me think about how easy it is to change the truth when you are a skilled wizard. How easy is it to change the memory of witness in an actual court case? I assume lots of wizards can do what Kingsley did. How hard is it to detect this from happening? Do they block magic in court, during Harry’s they did not. You could go down a crazy rabbit hole on this topic. On this chapter, it reminded me a bit on what some people in the bookclub said about Hagrids Giants story, that they would skip it on re-reading because it is a story outside of what is actually happening in Hogwarts. The same goes for me on this chapter, atleast for the part that tells Snapes memory, I think I might be in the minority with this opinion. I have to say, if I had witnessed this behaviour of James Potter in real life, I would have dodged that person as best as I could for the rest of the school time and also after. Not saying Snape is innocent or anything in this. Off topic, you said you would watch football if there were always goals like Harry Kane’s goal vs DR Congo. The german league is known for being an offensive focused league (mostly), and as a “Bayern Munich" supporter (the club Kane plays for) I see him in action every week, and I can enjoy these type of goals a lot. Greetings from Germany, actually from “East-Frisia”, since you asked to share if we are comfortable.

Maria

Okay, I'll change the wording.

jolt45 (edited)

Comment edits

2026-09-07 04:00 Howdy Veggie and Woozle! For Harry not learning Occlumency I place 10% of the blame on Dumbledore, 30% on Snape, and 60 % on Harry. I will not elaborate further. In the memory there are "around 100 desks" for the DADA OWL. The implication is that there are roughly 100 students in James and Snape's year. Harry's year seems to have 8 Gryffindors which translates to 30-40 students total (8-10 per house). Somehow over the last ~20 years the student population has been cut in half or more. My leading theories are that few people wanted children with Voldemort in power or simply that many wizarding families were killed/fled the country. I find it fascinating the way the pensieve memories work. Snape has his nose in his papers throughout most of it, yet Harry can easily see many details Snape would not have seen. My head canon is that the pensieve amplifies the memory by tapping into the witch or wizard's subconscious. This would imply that wizards/witches have some sort of 6th sense that can store details they don't notice in the moment but can be seen with an artifact like the pensieve. Have you noticed the analog characters between Harry and James' years? James = Harry (the Potter) Sirius = Ron (fiercely loyal to the Potter) Lupin = Hermione (studious rule bound friend of the Potter) Peter = Neville (lacks confidence but friend to the Potter) Lily = Ginny (passionate and kind; attracted to the Potter) Snape = Luna (loner outcast that is regularly bullied) Harry's group generally has much more positive outcomes. Think about it going forward. I might bring it up again.
2026-07-17 12:21 Howdy Veggie and Woozle! For Harry not learning Occlumency I place 10% of the blame on Dumbledore, 30% on Snape, and 60 % on Harry. I will not elaborate further. In the memory there are "around 100 desks" for the DADA OWL. This implies that there are roughly 100 students in James and Snape's year. Harry's year has 8 Gryffindors which translates to 30-40 students total (8-10 per house). Somehow over the last ~20 years the student population has been cut in half or more. My leading theories are that few people wanted children with Voldemort in power or simply that many wizarding families were killed/fled the country. I find it fascinating the way the pensieve memories work. Snape has his nose in his papers throughout most of it, yet Harry can easily see many details Snape would not have seen. My head canon is that the pensieve amplifies the memory by tapping into the witch or wizard's subconscious. This would imply that wizards/witches have some sort of 6th sense that can store details they don't notice in the moment but can be seen with an artifact like the pensieve. Have you noticed the analog characters between Harry and James' years? James = Harry (the Potter) Sirius = Ron (fiercely loyal to the Potter) Lupin = Hermione (studious rule bound friend of the Potter) Peter = Neville (lacks confidence but friend to the Potter) Lily = Ginny (passionate and kind; attracted to the Potter) Snape = Luna (loner outcast that is regularly bullied) Harry's group generally has much more positive outcomes. Think about it going forward. I might bring it up again.

Howdy Veggie and Woozle! For Harry not learning Occlumency I place 10% of the blame on Dumbledore, 30% on Snape, and 60 % on Harry. I will not elaborate further. In the memory there are "around 100 desks" for the DADA OWL. This implies that there are roughly 100 students in James and Snape's year. Harry's year has 8 Gryffindors which translates to 30-40 students total (8-10 per house). Somehow over the last ~20 years the student population has been cut in half or more. My leading theories are that few people wanted children with Voldemort in power or simply that many wizarding families were killed/fled the country. I find it fascinating the way the pensieve memories work. Snape has his nose in his papers throughout most of it, yet Harry can easily see many details Snape would not have seen. My head canon is that the pensieve amplifies the memory by tapping into the witch or wizard's subconscious. This would imply that wizards/witches have some sort of 6th sense that can store details they don't notice in the moment but can be seen with an artifact like the pensieve. Have you noticed the analog characters between Harry and James' years? James = Harry (the Potter) Sirius = Ron (fiercely loyal to the Potter) Lupin = Hermione (studious rule bound friend of the Potter) Peter = Neville (lacks confidence but friend to the Potter) Lily = Ginny (passionate and kind; attracted to the Potter) Snape = Luna (loner outcast that is regularly bullied) Harry's group generally has much more positive outcomes. Think about it going forward. I might bring it up again.

ChrisG9018

Hello Veggie We love your waffle and point of view, its what makes your channel so unique. Harry shouldn't have used snapes memories, it like going to someone's house and digging through their cabinets. It does show that Harry is a flawed hero and more believable than the white knight version in the movies The twins really shine in this chapter and earns them their MVP status. Its a shame the movie scene of the twins rebellion was so short. Well i guess Pumpkin Pastie and Harry are over. It would be hard to have a normal romance, when Tom Riddle is constantly trying to kill you.

Ennui

Hi veggie. It’s been like two years since I was here last, I’ve had so much to catch up on, again. Firstly, I love that McGonagall literally has no care at all about the fireworks. What a queen. Mainly, I’m really interested in graphology (the study of handwriting), so I find it really interesting that in the memory, snape’s handwriting is described as ‘minuscule and cramped’. Small handwriting indicates introversion and wanting to take up as little space as possible, which feels very fitting, even if I’m not sure how intentional that was. Just felt that was an interesting little note, for me, anyway.

Maddie

Hey Woozle and Veggie! Here in my country Catherine wheels weren't a thing so I obviously didn't know what it looked like when I first read the book, and I just thought that they were fireworks that looked like Ferris wheels. I thought it was so cool that there were Ferris wheel fireworks zooming around the school halls. The unpleasant revelation about James was one of those wtf moments in this series, and my first thought was his character was kind of made out to be like one of those "rich spoiled bad boys" in those teen love story novels.(Which I read a lot as a teenager). We were supposed to hate such characters, until they turn over a new leaf and live happily ever after with the heroine. Only, tragically there was no happily ever after for them.

S1lm4r1l

> My leading theories are that few people wanted children with Voldemort in power or simply that many wizarding families were killed/fled the country. Another thing supporting this is Umbridge's ability to attend ALL of Hagrid and Trelawney's classes despite having her own teaching responsibilities. Kinda indicates that there are far less students and therefore classes the Teachers have to teach. Or that Teachers have more free time than one might think.

Alex Hopps (edited)

Comment edits

2026-09-07 04:00 (Comment written in January and saved for this chapter. Apologies for length) Firstly the lack of respect Harry shows by entering the pensive is absolutely disgusting. Ive mentioned being the victim of horrific bullying before so its a sensitive topic for me. The marauders might of seemed cool in book 3, but this is why ive never had a good word to say about them. Remus doesn't get a pass either, if your going to sit and pretend to read while your mates do vile things, then still maintain your friendship I judge u the same as them. James Potter is a bellend, and frankly so are the rest of his gang. And unfortunately the apple doesn't fall far from the treer, this was demonstrated when harry teamed up with 2 older guys to violently attack another student (draco). I could just as easily go on a rant about how much of a prick snape is, i also strongly dislike him. But i find the "grifindors" behaviour in this chapter disgusting, 3 on 1 for the second time this book, ohh they are so brave!
2026-07-21 21:36 (Comment written in January and saved for this chapter. Apologies for length) Firstly the lack of respect Harry shows by entering the pensive is absolutely disgusting. Ive mentioned being the victim of horrific bullying before so its a sensitive topic for me. The marauders might of seemed cool in book 3, but this is why ive never had a good word to say about them. Remus doesn't get a pass either, if your going to sit and pretend to read while your mates do vile things, then still maintain your friendship I judge u the same as them. James Potter is a bellend, and frankly so are the rest of his gang. And unfortunately the apple doesn't fall far from the tree, this was demonstrated when harry teamed up with 2 older guys to violently attack another student (draco). I could just as easily go on a rant about how much of a prick i think snape is, i have plenty of negativity i could direct towards him. But i find the "grifindors" behaviour in this chapter disgusting, 3 on 1 for the second time this book, ohh they are so brave!

(Comment written in January and saved for this chapter. Apologies for length) Firstly the lack of respect Harry shows by entering the pensive is absolutely disgusting. Ive mentioned being the victim of horrific bullying before so its a sensitive topic for me. The marauders might of seemed cool in book 3, but this is why ive never had a good word to say about them. Remus doesn't get a pass either, if your going to sit and pretend to read while your mates do vile things, then still maintain your friendship I judge u the same as them. James Potter is a bellend, and frankly so are the rest of his gang. And unfortunately the apple doesn't fall far from the tree, this was demonstrated when harry teamed up with 2 older guys to violently attack another student (draco). I could just as easily go on a rant about how much of a prick i think snape is, i have plenty of negativity i could direct towards him. But i find the "grifindors" behaviour in this chapter disgusting, 3 on 1 for the second time this book, ohh they are so brave!

No Trains

Hi Woozle and Woozle This is not related to current chapter so feel free to skip it. But it's something you said last time that made me think of a theory. I don't know if anyone mentioned it before but here I go.. You said in last chapter about every painting be Sirius (I got the joke but I had a lightbulb moment there) In chapter 6 Bill Weasley mentioned that Dumbledore said he does not care what they (Ministry) do as long as they don't take him off the chocolate frog cards. Does that mean Dumbledore can keep surveillance on everyone who owns his chocolate frog card? Is this how he seems to be all knowing all the time? My mind is just blown by this theory.

Howiedoing (edited)

Comment edits

2026-09-07 04:00 It stood out to me is Harry’s reaction to the memory. He immediately frames it as James being a bully, and I think that’s because he’s projecting. The James/Snape dynamic looks a lot like Harry/Draco — years of mutual hate, hexes in hallways, trading insults, both convinced the other started it. Difference is, Harry’s seeing his dad in the Draco role: rich, popular, backed by friends, using humiliation as a weapon. So Harry jumps to “bullying” because that’s how he’d describe Draco’s behavior toward him. But if we flip it, Snape’s also throwing curses first here, just like Harry does with Draco sometimes. The scene forces Harry to realize his dad wasn’t perfect, but it also makes you wonder: if Harry saw a Pensieve memory of himself and Draco from an outsider’s POV, would he call his own behavior The chapter is called “Snape’s Worst Memory,” but it’s really “Harry’s Worldview Shattered.” .
2026-07-23 16:20

Jacqueline Chaiton

This is a theory that the Super Carlin Brothers have. Watch their Dumbledore’s Big Plan series.

No Trains

I've never seen it and I might have to give that a watch then.. I'm bummed because I was excited that I was the first one to think of this 😂

Alias93

I'm not sure if it's mentionned in that specific video, I think they made a separate one about the chocolate frog cards, but the Dumbledore's Big Plan series is definitely worth a watch, one of the rare theories I actually believe to be true. To be fair they have been making videos about HP for over 10 years now so they've probably covered every theory you could think of at one point or another.

Alan Michener

Hi veggie, So I just want to say I love what Fred and George are doing. I also like how the teachers can care less that its happening and are fine with it because it punishes Umbridge. Also giving some students the ability to dock points how does that help her? The Inquisitorial squad I feel like them being able to dock points from other houses serves no useful purpose. And as for the main thing this chapter the memory. I want to know what happened the preceding 5 years up to this point. I feel like taking a snapshot of 1 seen doesn't give use a full picture of how the marauders and snape got to this point. They were in the wrong 100% by that seen just by itself. Also don't you love how snape keeps telling harry to clear his mind of all emotion but whenever James or any of the marauders are brought up he can't seem to control his own emotions. I came back and added that last paragraph hope it didn't make the comment to long.

CJ Haaay

Hi Veggie! Missed the last few book clubs but what a ride this book is, am I right? This was my favourite until the last book came out. This is also the first book of the series that I owned. The previous four were actually bought for my brother (he ended up giving them to me later on though!) Chapter 28 • I cannot believe Harry actually considered drinking the tea that Umbitch made him. • It was really nice of her to tell Harry all the ways she’s surveilling the students, so now he knows not to do any of that! • The Hogwarts teachers are the greatest trolls ever, love their behaviour on Umbridges first day as Head • If Harry and Cho weren’t over before, they very much are now! • We only saw SOME of the memory in the movie, what did you think of the rest of it? • I love Wormtails characterisation in the memory. Watching James and Sirius with awe, cheering James on, the look of avid anticipation on his face when he knew they were going to start bullying Severus, and him “watching hungrily” when they start. Really shows you what sort of person he is. Hope you are having a great summer! Love from Australia.

Gugurupurasu Daikirai

Hi there Veggie, I consider the Order of the Phoenix movie to be the second worst movie only behind the last movie but one thing I was pleasantly surprised by in it was that it didn't completely skip the James Potter being a turd storyline, even if it toned it down a bit. They make Harry so boring in the movies because they give him such a case of basic protagonist syndrome that they take away most of the flaws that make him interesting so I was surprised they even kind of included that. (No fault of Daniel Radcliffe, he's actually a very good actor, he was so good in Imperium that movie was memed for having Harry Potter himself in it in such a wildly different role. I'm not recommending to watch it though, you'd never be able to watch a Harry Potter movie the same way again) Harry can't be too critical of his father's arrogance though considering the absolutely wild decision he made to stick his face in the Pensieve just because Snape left the room for a bit although the fact he was appalled by his father's actions do show he is a better person at this point. Cho's criticism of Hermione was on target, she needs someone more mature than Harry. Considering the movies were PG-13 anyway it would have been fun the see some of Fred and George's fireworks spell out swears too

Garry (Not Jerry)

You know the interesting thing about Umbridge questioning Harry? Harry literally doesn’t know where Dumbledore is. And he physically cannot tell her where Sirius Black is (he is not the secret keeper). So the truth potion, if had he taken it, would have made no difference. Dumbledore had all his bases covered. Random thought. What do you think Snape actually saw when he came back into the room? Harry leaning over the pensieve with his head inside? Or was Harry not In the room at all, Snape looks into the pensieve and sees Harry IN his memory?

Hawwah

I'd like to write a ten-page essay, but I'll stick to a few points that stand out to me the most. • Potter and Black were full-blown sadists. This chapter features the most vicious violence we've seen in the series so far. Not even the Death Eaters at the World Cup went that far. • When Black spotted Severus, he was like "a dog that has scented a rabbit". JKR compares Black to a predator catching sight of his prey. What does it say about their power dynamic? • When the Marauders ambushed Sev, they first took his wand and paralyzed him with a spell. Making sure he would be completely helpless, unable to fight back. THEN they went on to torment him, choke him, toy with him. I think this particular detail sickens me the most. • It's a callback to the events at the World Cup. The parallels between the two scenes are striking. Both the DEs and the Marauders assaulted someone unprovoked, just for a bit of fun, as well as a display of power over someone whom they considered inferior. Both savored the utter helplessness of their victims. Both forcibly exposed the victim's underwear in public as a means of humiliation and stripping away their dignity. • If the so-called "good guys" behave just like the villains, how exactly are they "good? What makes someone good or bad if not their actions? Judge them by their fruits. • In fact, Potter took it even further than the DEs. He was just about to strip Sev's underwear off when Harry was pulled out of the Pensieve. The memory cuts off here but the scene itself obviously went on. It's strongly implied Potter stripped Sev naked in front of his whole class. • Severus clearly suffers from severe PTSD and Harry forced him to re-live his trauma. Severus was perfectly justified in throwing Harry out of his office.

Hawwah

"He immediately frames it as James being a bully, and I think that’s because he’s projecting." I think it's because he just witnessed his father viciously assault a fellow student who was minding his own business. " Snape’s also throwing curses first here" No, he's not. He is defending himself after he was assaulted for no reason at all.

Howiedoing

"I used to doubt Harry's view that this was bullying, thinking it was just a schoolyard rivalry between two people who hated each other. While James and Snape do parallel Harry and Draco, I could never picture Harry using a gang of friends to corner one person like that. This was entirely unprovoked, done out of pure boredom. I’m curious if James ever treated other students this way, or if his cruelty was reserved strictly for Snape. Finally, I found it fascinating that Snape completely loses control of his emotions here and calls Lily a 'Mudblood,' yet he calls Harry weak for failing to master Occlumency and control his own emotions. The hypocrisy is incredible. I completely rewrote this comment good thing I got it in before it closed.

Hawwah

"he spent years calling Harry weak for failing to master Occlumency" When did this happen? Harry didn't even know Occumency existed until Christmas 1995 and Severus stopped being his teacher a year and a half later. EDIT: Did you delete your previous post? You didn't have to do that, you could have just edited it. Like this.

Howiedoing

The Year’s thing was a typo I did not mean to make a new post I thought it was editing it and then realized it afterwards so just deleted my old one

Hawwah

Oh, ok. I was worried my comment made you so upset you decided to delete your entire post. That wasn't my intention.

Howiedoing

No you’re good but you did make me look into it again and revise my comment

Badger Kat

Regarding your second paragraph, I’ve thought about this too! What do you see when someone else is ’in’ a pensieve?

Simon audsley

"Dooby Dooby Dooby Dooby Dooby Quack Quack" The twins are starting to lead the fight back against Umbridge. Starting to thinK harry is a bit of a nosey parker. Very different way of seeing snape memories versus the film very underhand of harry, but the scene is much more expanded we really get to see the personalities of the marauders, snape and Lilly. It's nice to see the complexities of each character rather than the very truncated scene from the film, The book brings more character to everyone including harry. Bonus quote "father Christmas do not touch me" R.I.P. quick edit since you mention carry on's and cracker ITV have there own youtube channels and both are available to watch on youtube vpn's are required to watch cracker (3 episodes). itv drama for cracker itv retro for carrry on's

Steven

Hey Veggie! I absolutely love how the teachers just don't care for being professional with Umbridge in this chapter. Sure, they could handle the fireworks themselves but where's the fun in that? XD. I find it weird that the ministry can order ghosts and poltergeists to stop doing something. What realistically can they do to prevent them? We heard in Book 2 that they stopped Myrtle from haunting her bully... What would prevent a ghost or poltergeist from doing whatever they wanted?

Jo Winters

What you are saying makes zero logical sense.