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Episode 285: War, Etc. (Patreon)

Published:
2023-04-21 13:12:17
Edited:
2024-10-11 00:15:57
Imported:
2026-06
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Content

We have a Texas rendezvous with Seth Harp for a conversation about the Pentagon leaks, the state of the war in Ukraine, and some updates on Fort Bragg

Files

Comments

AlexT

Hi Liz!

Neil Jones

Fort Liberty* 😎😉☺️🥹😇😍

seth

hiiii

Lucy

Where’s Shen Yun …. Excited nonetheless

Jon W

👏 👏 👏 👏 Deep in the Heeeeeeart of Texas!

Lucy

I figure you guys were too busy hitting your extra strong vape pens yesterday to record Shen Yun part 3

Scout

SETH SETH SETH SETH

Scout

the fort bragg ep is one of my top 5 true anons im so excited

Ricardo

Its always a good one when Seth shows up

Michael S. Judge

I'm 100% sure I know people who played Chaos in Tejas with you, possibly the people who tried to fight you

Billy Thunderhawk

Grew up about an hour south of fort Bragg, extremely cursed vibes permeate for miles and miles around it. Monstrous place

Michael S. Judge

INFIDELS sucks, but the outtake "Blind Willie McTell" is a top 5 Dylan song

Peacock Jive

Ukraine ep 2 finally fuuuuck

T bird

My parents are from Fayetteville and I thank them at least once a year for moving away

NYCM&AHole

The cook for delta force was Steven Seagal from Under Siege

TrueAnonPod

CORRECTION lykkewulf does not appear to be a band but appears to be a clothing brand for women I was thinkin of some other rotten band with a name like that

Jeremy hatrington

LOL so curious about this brings out the inner B9 board in me. I want a Brace HC beef episode.

Anneliese

“I had to hide under a bridge like a bat” 💀

Budget Hireling

Wow, I listened to this entire episode hoping that it would finally tell me how to unleash my chi and fly only to be tricked once again into learning. Very out of touch, unsubscribed.

TrueAnonPod

My only beef that would be related to B9 type music any way was with trash talk (squashed) and Mind Eraser (squashed) afaik no extant beefs though many haters existed and I’m sure many haters remain…

Spencer Noland

His last name is pronounced tuh-share-uh, I'd guess.

Corey Reynolds

In Charles Whitmans suicide(?) letter he asked for an autopsy of his brain. He had a brain tumor and knew about it without ever being diagnosed by a doctor.

Sam Zeng

Dicks out for our veteran Seth Harp

Sarah Jay

I love Texas beef. Also, mimicking bat behavior is next to godliness.

Oliver Crane

Foot of Pride is pretty great too

Evan Scott

I think 14X is an MOS code? Field 14 is for air defense system related personnel

D. Elwood

Yung Chomsky is right, I would also click on an AIM link for a new Weezer album

Ian P

Thank you Liz for saying it 💪🏼

Ben V

Infidels is top tier 80s Dylan, minus neighborhood bully

Sifl

Russia brilliantly tried to invade Kyiv as a head fake so that it could then take Donbas, which was also a partial head fake by taking more territory than they actually wanted to let Ukraine have a quick win in a counter offensive that liberated Kherson, a major city and strategic point for launching an attack on Crimea, and is now brilliantly taking over 8 months to take a small city that is not even as big as Scranton, PA. Putin is a mastermind.

Matthew

Best guest! We love Seth!

Crash Test Orphan

Yung Chomsky, props to the AIM sound effect at 10:01. Very nice.

Petter Nybråten

... stuff that's not a big part of my life at all, but gives me way more satisfaction than this episode

Yup

check out these files

SF

Did anyone on the episode call him a mastermind? Why are you people so weird in the comments section?

Ben

Just saw someone got killed during a training at Bragg a few days ago

sarah

all the news feels fake :(

Marcus

Explaining why Joe lied about the war might open up a can of worms about all the other things he's lied about.

Nathaniel Weiner

This guest is so good. And he's right, Dean Koontz basically IS ya

Taylor Leibel

Jesus the Roman-Martinez story reads like one of those missing 411 cases

Sam

Trueanon the Turkish elections are approaching, I beg you to make a Turkey series!!!!!!

Robert Sayre

China has a base in Djibouti (as do lots of countries), and one in Tajikistan. The latter seems like it might be more of a border guard station on the wrong side, rather than a big base. They are also rumored to be building one in Cambodia, but that is getting lots of hand waves.

Jessie Cherbak

Seth Harp and the Guilty Criminals gonna crush it at SXSW this year

Jack Ross

I agree with this as well. I love everyone in this episode and they call a lot of stuff well but their analysis of Ukraine really hasn’t been quite good and it’s not hard to see that with available information out there. This harkens back to the first ep with Seth when everyone was convinced that Russia absolutely was not going to invade.

Jack Ross

Loved the ep but I must said, much like the first episode from last year, I find the analysis of the situation in Ukraine here to be quite weak. It was extremely clear that the push towards Kyiv was indeed a genuine Russian priority (if not THE top priority in the opening days), they wouldn’t have burned half their officer corps and SOF literally right there if that wasn’t true; apart from the fact that it just makes sense to try to take an enemy capital as quickly as possible (look at the race to Baghdad in 2003). Russian failures were due to a documented systemic culture of lying and incompetence which plague them from the company level all the way to the top of their command.

Jessica S

Re: Fort Freedom Fries - when I was about 15 my best friend dated a guy on a nearby base and they were always trying to get her to sneak her friends in, and younger ones too. It was super creepy, and I was a stupid teenager that did plenty of creepy, questionable things, lol, but was somehow just smart enough to steer clear of that trap. Obviously it’s no big revelation though; and I suspect, if the minors are of legal-adjacent age, it isn’t considerable a problem unless it’s a case that gets a ton of media coverage for some reason.

Juliette DeMaso

Nice to see our nefarious secret empire expansion plans look like a Denny’s table menu, the kind where the back is a coloring page. I swear if you flip that thing over it’ll have a bomb maze.

Melissa Ede Cooper

Seth was not in that episode, he was in an early episode but after the invasion, and he had just been in Ukraine.

Harrison Sanchez

I heard about that - he'd begged to have his head checked and they found a big ole tumor there.

Joshua J Marx

That's some Pablum you got there, buddy..

SF

I hope China continues to build more overseas bases. They have every right to defend themselves from the mad dying dog that is the US empire.

SF

There’s pronounced breadtube stench emanating from that Sifl account for sure

Gordon Schmidt

You should get Harp back on to do a whole episode on the Enrique Martinez story. It seems like there's a lot to chew on there, and the idea that the MAGA guys might have done it doesn't ring true to me. If you don't have him back on to talk about this I might have to DM him about it or something lol

Irvin de la Rosa

Weird audio glitch at 1:04:34 where it sounds like Seth is talking over himself.

Brian Long

Liz at 1 hr 10mins - I have been saying this. We are being gaslit all the time. And people are expected to maybe just read between the lines? Or believe it at face value? It makes no sense in the world to me. Strongest job market? Best economy? The biggest companies in this country are and have been doing layoffs like crazy - it doesn’t make sense. It’s maddening. Everything is a lie. Everything is fake. The government and media just say stuff and no one hold anyone accountable and we all just say, huh ok if you say so! It’s insanity.

Brian Long

Media and US government are way too friendly. Its embarrassing no one questions this administration.

SoldierBlue

This is the most well produced podcast I’ve listened to. Yung Chomsky is a treasure

Eon Gattignolo

liz asking good questions about why the content of discord leaks have been discussed but not hersh's reporting on nordstream.

Eon Gattignolo

as to brace's question towhat our aim would be in leaving afghanistan a violent wreck on our way out the door, they signed onto belt and road.

Aaron C

Seth was right that “14x PAX” means 14 people on the ground. “PAX” is shorthand for “persons”, and the “x” serves the same purpose as it would perhaps in a recipe for a cake (3x eggs) or in a science lab. Or in this case, a recipe for WARRING. Source: I used to work in this strange five-sided building

Doug Cartel

[citation needed] but as far as I know Charles Whitman had a massive brain tumor that they found post-mortem. but yeah, Von der Leyen said "over 100,000 officers have died" which I think she said because she doesn't fully understand the english distinction between officers and enlisted, but if we assume a 1:1 dead/wounded ratio then total AFU casualties in Nov/Dec 2022 was around 200,000 minimum. my skepticism over Russian casualties mainly comes from the fact that, if for the sake of the argument we assume Russia has taken 0 losses, then the max number of troops in-theater is slightly under 500k, which is enough to fortify the 1000 mile front but not enough to do any high speed warfare like the Fulda Gap was supposed to be. So, if we take Ukraine at its word that the Russians lost 220,000 people, then Russia's defenses shouldbe contracting now, or very soon, which would mean pulling back from existing defensive lines. Maybe they will, since the supposed spring offensive the AFU talks about doing is supposed to happen before April 30, at least at the moment that's the estimate. We'll see. Ukraine also has a larger army than the Russians at the moment, and that is likely why they have been throwing newbies into the trenches; the newbies play defense while the better trained troops do offense, and if the newbies survive, they get some combat experience from the best teacher around. From way the fuck over here, it appears that the Ukrainians are doing the 'enemy at the gates' style warfare that americans believe has been Russia's only MO since 1917. I just keep thinking about the peace talks last April and Bob Odenkirk shouting "you should have taken the deal, guys!" to the junkies in the alley

Jack Ross

Hmm interesting, however my source (see: epic meal time) on YouTube seems to counter your sources quite effectively

jethiexoxo

Can’t wait for the book!

Doug Cartel

but yeah, I want to be one of those anti-war guys who says both sides are bad, but I always kind of simp towards the Russians because it pisses me off so much knowing that the US just blatantly told the Russians to fuck off every time Russia tried to resolve the civil war diplomatically. I think the assault on Kiev was partly a feint to make eastern and southern advances easier, but I think it was more a political move. In other words, the point was to maximize diplomatic pressure on Zelensky at the peace talks. Then, after the talks failed, they withdrew and reinforced the territory they took while Kiev was pinned down. Now, they have the land they wanted, and "annihilating Ukraine" was never the goal. This is assuming Moscow is competent enough to do these things, which I'm way too far away to figure out. America of course is looking at the war through the lends of blitzkrieg, so they assume Russian turtle warfare is due to failure and not a desire to hunker down and preserve forces.

Doug Cartel

remember that guy whose death was ruled a suicide after british cops found him bound and gagged in a zipped up duffel bag in a tub of water that was funny

Nico

*Goatsex

Sara S

Teixeira - also a baseball player who was with the Yankees

ZeeBee

I saw Brace's band play Chaos in Tejas. Walked over to Emo's from another show at Mohawk and saw the last couple songs (and the poppers)

Alex Poniz

“PAX: 14X” just means “Personnel: 14.”

Alex Poniz

Simping for Russia to own the libs, neat 📸 For what it’s worth, Russia gutted its officer corps and most of their veteran SF units in the “feint” for Kyiv. And it’s important to to note that Russia hasn’t made a good-faith effort to make peace, which sadly isn’t surprising given the borderline genocidal attitude Russian state media has adopted over the course of the invasion. For what it’s worth, I went to Ukraine at the start of the invasion to do medical work and help evacuate refugees. Based on what I’ve seen, simping for Russia is simping for murderers.

Alex Poniz

As always, love the pod. Sadly I disagree with the gang’s analysis of the war in Ukraine. Calling Ukrainians NATO proxies when it was Russia that invaded without any cause is absurd. And to launch into a whole discussion suggesting the Kyiv offensive was a feint (if so, it was one which gutted much of Russia’s officer core and veteran SF units) without even acknowledging the crimes against humanity which Russian troops committed at Bucha and other places during the offense is… idk guys, idk.

Doug Cartel

The war would not have happened if anybody in DC did literally any diplomacy whatsoever and had actually taken russia seriously when they spent the last 30 years going "do not fuck with Ukraine or we will start shooting people". People love to think their personal experiences are some kind of trump card, but if you're not aware of the role the US played in starting this war then you're just excusing america's bullshit behavior and the nazis they have spent the last 8 years sending weapons and supplies to. Now this news about Russia wiping out all its experienced soldiers at Kiev, who told this to you? The same Ukrainians who said the Russians would run out of ammo any minute now for the last year? If that is true, how come the last year has been a stalemate instead of a mop-up operation? How come the AFU did not steamroll the remaining forces in the east and south after repelling the Kiev attack if the Russians had no effective leadership left?

Sneakaboard

Viewing the invasion as totally acausal and unrelated to NATO brinksmanship is significantly more absurd, in my opinion.

Alex Poniz

Really? How did NATO cause the invasion?

Doug Cartel

"without cause" is false. The war may not be justified, but there was a clear build-up to the war in which the West ignored Russia's warnings and had no clue what political calculus Russia was operating on. The State Dept didn't even start trying to recruit russian-speaking people until recently. "If Ukraine ever becomes hostile, or if NATO recruits it, we will go to war". They have said this since 1991 and the US responded with "lalala I can;t hear you" every single time for 30 years. Had America told "peace candidate" Zelensky to shut up and stop talking about invading crimea in 2021 and obtaining nukes, the Russians likely would at least have taken their finger off the trigger for a while longer. Now though, you have western politicians openly bragging that they spent the last 8 years working to destroy russia using Ukraine as a meat shield. We gave Russia zero reasons to trust us and now we are openly telling them that peace was never an option. Moreover, America demands a unipolar world, which is why we have spent my entire lifetime dropping bombs on countries all over the world. We maintain our unipolar world through proxy wars and low-intensity war all over the globe. If there is one silver lining to this war, it's that the Ukrainian military will no longer be able to murder civilians living in Donbass like they have for the last 8 years under America's watch.

Alex Poniz

For someone who says the war isn’t justified, you’re trying really hard to justify it. Peace remains an option - all Russia needs to do is leave Ukraine alone. Until they do, I’m fine with America helping Ukraine defend itself against an invading army. That’s my spicy hot take. I went actually went to Ukraine at the start of the war to do medical and humanitarian work, I wouldn’t consider Ukrainians as American proxies but rather Americans as Ukrainian allies. And I’m not saying anything to excuse the horrific things the US has done domestically and abroad to maintain the unipolar status quo. However, I don’t think Ukraine is a good example of that.

Doug Cartel

All america had to do was actually listen to anything Russia was saying for the last 30 years. That's it. But nobody in the state department actually does diplomacy anymore and NATO has been party to tons of war crimes over the last 30 years, so there was and is no reason for anyone to trust the West when it claims to "want peace" or that NATO is a "purely defensive alliance". The burden was on us, the west, to stop this war. If you can't see that, then whatever. I don't care. Go over there and tell the people living in Donbass that it's totally fine and good that the Ukrainians were killing them for 8 years. I'm sure they'd appreciate it.

Alex Poniz

My brother in Christ, Russia invaded Donbas in 2014. They started the war. Tragically, there have been many civilian casualties in that war. Do you think all those casualties are entirely the fault of the Ukrainian military? You act as if Ukraine has been slaughtering civilians in Donbas for 8 years for no reason and Russia suddenly came to the rescue in 2022. And to say that the burden was on the west to stop this war… first of all, the burden is on the aggressor to not start the war in the first place - honestly that’s why Finland recently joined NATO. Second of all, how would you imagine that? What could the west have done? And what do you even mean by “the west”?

Doug Cartel

You forgot the US overthrew the Ukrainian government and installed their own hand-picked government for the express purpose of seizing control of the Black Sea. Did you actually think Russia just did it for no reason and no provocation? Do you think America can just overthrow governments at-will and expect no repercussions? You think when Russia spends THIRTY YEARS SAYING THE SAME WARNING OVER AND OVER AGAIN that we don't have to listen to them? America just gets to do whatever it wants and it's everyone else's problem? When the UKR government was overthrown, it immediately destroyed a tenuous balance between east and west Ukraine, who were only living under one government due to historical accident. With the equilibrium between these two regions broken, civil war was inevitable. The State department did not care when they engineered the coup in Kiev in 2014. For fuck's sake, there are photos of McCain and Chris Murphy standing right next to a skinhead MP from Svoboda party at the Maidan rallies. The same nasty fucks who engineered the coup were the same ones that destroyed Iraq. Anybody with shrapnel in their skull could tell you they were counting on Russia to act stupid in 2014 because they were hoping and praying for Ukraine to be Afghanistan 2.

Alex Poniz

I feel at this point there’s enough moving parts to this discussion that I don’t think this is going to be productive for me anymore. I hear what you’re saying and I don’t completely dismiss your points. I think I just see this issue differently, perhaps because I’m from a country that borders Ukraine and because I’ve seen firsthand as a medical aid worker what the Russian military has done to civilians in Ukraine. But my main point was that I feel the pod’s analysis on this has been and continues to be lacking. And that’s ok, I’m just hoping to add a chime of dissent to the echo chamber here. And ultimately I suppose I’m not going to budge on the “Russia should stop their offensive and withdraw from Ukrainian territory” point. But if we can align on that, then I’d be willing to take this to another means of communication. Thanks for engaging.

Insights from Psych NP

Yup and all those biolabs doing gain of function research. I thought Russian leadership showed incredible restraint. They have some leaks in their intelligence though, for sure.

bitbat9

Simping for authoritarians 😎😎

Doug Cartel

This argument has not become convoluted, we have simply backtracked to the flashpoint that started this war. If you want to understand why this war happened, go back to 2014. You can go even further, but obviously we won't get that far. Next time you accuse someone of being an accomplice to murder for thinking it's bad to antagonize the Russians, maybe read a couple more history books first.

james

I was expecting some of these comments here but this is next level tankie. At the end of the day, Putin decides to unilaterally start a war by invading Ukraine without provocation. And some people are tripping over themselves to play devil's advocate on his behalf. Your points hold no water when it comes to actual real people in Ukraine who are fighting to keep their families and homes safe. It's purely a comment section thought.

Insights from Psych NP

Ukraine and Russian were negotiating for peace April 2022 but Nato and US would not allow it.

w

I want to read the cultural anthropology book about fort Bragg!!! Anyone know the title?

Magic Mikey

The "without provocation" line parroted endlessly in the media is a good example of the surreal nature of the MSM coverage Liz talked about. It’s totally jumping the shark, easily disproved as Doug has so amply done in his comments above. There’s plenty of other examples too. Apparently, Russia blows up its own pipelines , shells the nuclear plant it controls, sends its troops forward in suicidal “human waves” – All obvious nonsense stenographed by western MSM with no critical evaluation whatsoever. Chomsky (Noam that it, Not Yung) has described this war as resulting in the “utter corruption” of the media.

xnfec

China has a base in Djibouti. However, everyone else has too so maybe it doesn't count.

Junior Carmichael

"Kiev was a feint." Not even your friends at Radio War Nerd buy this spin.

james

True Anon will always be a great podcast. But I couldn't make it through the first part of this ep. I don't have any appetite for smug devil's advocacy on the internet when there is a real life war going on. I don't know what the word is for self-aware borderline Tankies, but that's what this episode sounds like.

Jake

joker man is goated

Demented Avenger

Who says you can't chop your own head off? Every heard of the Head of Vecna? The druid summoned an ape to chop his head off and put the Head of Vecna on it!

stinkface

It's really too bad that Vladimir Putin woke up one day in 2022 and thought "why not surprise everyone with an unprovoked invasion of our peaceful neighbors Ukraine, to satiate my totalitarian bloodlust?" But that's international conflict for you...🤷‍♂️ Lucky US & co. were there to help out. Good group of friends to have around!

Demented Avenger

Leo Strauss's noble lie doesn't originate with Leo Strauss. Strauss got it from Plato's Republic.

Sneakaboard

Not a single person commenting here has said anything even remotely close to 'Putin was right to start this good war that we support.' Also, it is WILD to me that someone could listen to this podcast and also unironically think that the US is 'helping Ukraine defend itself against an invading army' and not 'dumping gasoline onto the fire they started to prolong the conflict indefinitely'.

Sneakaboard

Seems like a lot of people don't understand you can identify cause and effect without endorsing those causes and/or effects.

Sneakaboard

What was said "In hindsight I would have given more credit to the idea that they may have been making a feint..." what people heard "PUTIN IS RIGHT AND THE WAR IS GOOD".

Sneakaboard

Goatsex was my biggest laugh of the ep

Sneakaboard

Check out the writing of one Barnacle Jim, he has some pretty long-face er, sorry long-form pieces on the issue.

Sneakaboard

I would NEVER simp for authoritarians, which is why I will uncritically regurgitate the press releases of the US State Department and its NATO allies who are, let me just check my notes here, uh, um, oh no..... oh no no no no

Alex Poniz

Arguing against US support for Ukraine is materially the same as arguing for Russian victory, how’s that for cause and effect?

Magic Mikey

@Alex Poniz "Arguing against British support for Belgium is materially the same as arguing for the German Kaisers victory." You're playing a very old record, one that led to the slaughter of millions in WW1.

SH

When did hypernormalisation become lame?

Alex Poniz

I think that’s an unfair comparison, though I think it’s unproductive to digress into picking apart the analogy unless you absolutely insist and stake your argument on it. How about this: yes, I would rather a Ukrainian victory than a Russian one, and therefore I support American support for Ukraine. Furthermore, there are Ukrainians who are willing to fight and die for their freedom. In fact, Ukraine just ended mandatory military service and is shifting to an all-volunteer army. Compare that to Russia, which is relying on conscripts and mercenaries.

Martin

What's the name of the song that starts playing around 1:10:50?

Dan Gorry

The Vanishing American Family by ScubaZ

Lisa

Airline ep would be amazing!

justin mccaslin

Charles Whitman’s motive was the brain tumor affecting his decision making and emotions. One of the most interesting case subjects with respect to the existence of free will.

justin mccaslin

correct - Charles Whitman a very interesting mass shooter. was he at fault of his brain tumor made him do it? unanswerable ethical and philosophical questions raised by his actions and death.

Mike Bilbe-Taylor

Laughed out loud in public at "there are no more tub girls" incredible

Mike Bilbe-Taylor

Good on you both for having a well intentioned yarn on these points.

Kelstar

YC, faintly: "tubgirl"

Jonathan lees

It’s a terrible shame isn’t it

Sam Schick

Liz’s mental breakdown near the end of the episode was very appreciated, yes the media is absolute garbage right now and yes it’s driving us insane.

Alan Fulcher

This guy lost me when he said he seriously thought the Russian move on Kiev was a “feint.” Like I’m not a Slava Ukraina guy but that is a profoundly dumb opinion to have. They lost thousands of men and equipment trying to bumrush the capital, it didn’t work, so they went to plan B. That’s it.

Donnacha O'Brien

The idea that the Kiev attack was a feint is pretty absurd. The amount of troops and equipment Russia lost in the fighting points to it being a massive blunder. The initial attack was quite restrained and disriminate almost like they were trying to take out Ukraine's leadership without incurring too much backlash in Ukraine and abroad. Rocket attacks on abandoned apartment blocks and so on. Russia fucked up so badly they have to pretend the Kiev attack was a feint otherwise they look incomprehensibly incompetent. The problem with Russia's plan comes from the massive corruption in Russia's military, the subsequent overestimation of Russia's capabilities, the underestimation of Ukraine's newly trained military, and perhaps drinking their own koolaid with regard to the Ukraine is occupied by a bunch of nazis idea. I.E. 'we will be greeted as liberators' but Russia this time. I have very little time for Seth Harp on this topic. Much more informed and credible people have contradicted his assertions. You can't cover Ukraine without speaking Ukrainian or at least having strong contacts. The best reporting comes out in Ukrainian media, obvious bias aside.

K Barlas

Pretty sure it's come out since that the Kiev attack was halted BC of negotiations, the ones that Boris Johnson intervened in

Gordon Schmidt

If that's the real reason, it makes the Russians look even more incompetent. They gave up all that territory right next to the capital, not to mention in the rest of the north, for absolutely nothing in exchange? If this was because of "negotiations" then the Russians were absolutely getting their lunch handed to them in those negotiations.

Ben Weinberg

Russia would blitzkrieg Kiev (and military sites) if conquering Ukraine was part of their plan. Russia is only seeking Donetsk and Luhansk (for symbolic as well as geographic/territorial reasons), attacking other parts of Ukraine to impose costs on counter-attacks.

Hardcore Virgin

Liz calling hypernormalisation corny is peak Liz. Bc it is readily accessible? Makes the point she is making elegantly? Bc it is clearly obviously what she is thinking??And then without batting an eye refers to the “simulacrum”. I love this show.