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Episode 324: Burn After Reading (Patreon)

Published:
2023-10-05 14:55:00
Edited:
2024-03-05 17:11:04
Imported:
2026-06
Tags:

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Content

We welcome Vincent Bevins back to the show to chat about his new book If We Burn: The Mass Protest Decade and the Missing Revolution. Starting with the June 2013 protests in Brazil, we walk through the last ten years of uprisings in various cities around the world, what was learned, what wasn’t, and what is to be done. 

Files

Comments

Ryan Fox

Morning fellas

Traplord

Vincent fucking rocks

Natalie

god patreon looks like shit

Clay Perry

Intro feels so Conner O'Malley in a great way

Doc Adna

Literally just finished v for vendetta.... Weird

John Swan

Brace’s Covid voice is getting more serious with every intro

Demented Avenger

Liz should have called herself "Guy Fawkesey."

Blank

Liz computer words ASMR

brodie

brace needs to start voice acting in stuff i think he would be great at it

PostmasterFenian

Vincents great I look forward to hearing him talk about this book on the seven other podcasts that I heard him talk about the Jakarta method on maybe I should listen to the audiobook version of this before I do that

Doug Cartel

more like motherBORED amirite

dominic

Had to turn it off after the Beatles song soundbyte. I immediately started balling, I miss John Lennon so much

Doug Cartel

I know there's a bunch of thrillers/sci fi shows where this happens, but I can only think of Starcraft 2 and the movie Serenity where the revelation of a crime by a journo/mass media inspires a bunch of protests or the popular overthrow of a govt, which is treated as this positive moment even though its pretty rare for that to end well.

Seth Aronovich

Nice catch. Hopefully the Maidan Square nazis who turned out for the US against the Ukrainian government and then went to the Hong Kong SAR to train the local stooges in burning elderly men to death and such get a mention.

Be Boop

Üsio❤️

Karl Childers

really excellent interview, just heard Bevins on Radio War Nerd yesterday, its not a competition but TrueAnon wins this round

Major Pisano

Fantastic episode folks! Necessary and useful content. Learn from your mistakes and read books , my suggestion to all ! Let’s take the media and close the roads , let’s see what happens this time ! Let’s go!

WQ

“nicky nicky nine doors” 💯

shoe

He doesn't look like Vince Vaugh, unless maybe Bevins is 6'5"

BizPlague

To me, the strangest images of the 2011 Egyptian protests are those of the word "Facebook" spray-painted on walls. Not a political slogan or a declaration of political intent--just "Facebook."

Char Kelly

There was a reeeeeeal moment when I thought the gay-pussy-eater was about to break threw and shift the discussion to the iconic Showtime series The L Word.

John

Can anyone explain or show me a report on how and why bolsonaro fell out with brazilian elites ? Was it his handling of covid or what was it ?

Kelson

This is an amazing episode! I am an idiot and not formally educated and slowly trying to learn theory and history on all these subjects and episodes like this are really helpful for pointing me towards more stuff to learn! Thanks y'all!

Chip

Hell yeah NTBTS sound bite 🤘 Ding DONGGG

Charlie M

SHOCKED Brace was trying to pull Vaugn and not Gallo...

AfroCommie

Crowds and Party by Jodi Dean 💯

gibbypatrol

Arab spring was around the same time as my own political awakening and I wrote a lot about social media and revolution during my underground. It’s been really interesting to track the way things have shifted over the last few years, especially after Jan 6.

Chris

I read Lenin to organize my polycule!!!

Alexander Johnson

As someone who has never used a complicated telephone or "app" & has no friends, can someone explain what a "group chat" is and why it's implied to be bad in this episode?

Marcus

I just started reading What Is to Be Done last week.

Usufruct Squad

I just ordered a copy of If We Burn. Great to hear Vincent on the program again. Now back to reading What Is To Be Done?...

Thomas Hartley

Good Morning (from South Africa at least!) My name is Thomas Hartley and I am a historian residing in South Africa. I’m a long time listener and I have seen some interest on the sub reddit for this show on SAIMR and the plot to spread AIDS through Southern Africa. Specifically, for you to make an episode about them. I conducted research on SAIMR earlier this year and have articles, the first academic articles on SAIMR ever written, awaiting publication. I have with me 200+ pages of archival material on SAIMR that I would be more than happy to share with you/talk about. Do let me know if this is of any interest!

J98

So glad they're finally covering Amber A'lee Frosts' new book!

drewb

amused by Brace both struggling to find computer words to use and also remembering Zip drives, something which I'm convinced less than ten people worldwide remember

fpotvin

Nicky Nicky nine door up and down the Scarborough bluff

cagey eye

very hard to grow up in SF without attending at least some kind of circus education

Phillip Harris

Lenin was the Marie Kondo of his day

tubularballs

after the disappointment of the flop that was blm i was searching for answers and came across jakarta method and it changed my life making me into the noided commie i am today

Katana King

I wrote my senior thesis in undergrad on OWS, based almost entirely on archives of meeting records, and two weeks before I turned it in I found the Tyranny of Structurelessness. I was like "damn. That's the whole thing, all my research, my findings, summed up in a couple pages." Wild to hear this years later when I haven't thought about any of it in quite a long time.

Melvin

That opening is goated

A.S.

Free Palestine! 🇵🇸

Nic Warnock

Great ep, can’t wait for the book to arrive! I’ve been excited to read this book since Vincent mentioned the rough concept on a podcast as least a couple of years back. Sounds like much of If We Burn (criticism of horizontalism, crisis of representation, techno-populism) lines up with the excellent The End Of The End Of History book from the Bungacast fellas but will hopefully find a bigger audience as it seems to be laid out the same way The Jakarta Method was, via a (non derogatory) investigative journalism approach. Can’t really fuck with what The Jakarta Method put down, as a certain podcast host would say “FACTS”.

Eric

There were a “sex number” of comments on here until I did this.

Always your comrade,

Is YC wearing a pair of pants *as* a shirt, or is it one pair of pants over the other?

Josh

“What is this book… aabout?” Lmao

Kevin

Sir Chomsky, I will post this comment on each video and Patreon post in my abilities until you stop audibly blue-balling this planet and Bless us with at least an LP!

Juan Barredo

I went to clown school right before the pandemic. I keep seeing clowns in general growing in importance. Maybe just a cyclical thing. Either way 🤡

Wiley Michelle B

I think that's my favorite cold open!!! Too funny

Wiley Michelle B

This is interesting. I like the Jakarta Method a lot. And I guess I get the argument about the internet being in a capitalist space... Except he's leaving some pretty significant things out of that analysis. What starts in 2016 with the rise of the Bernie movement, is the establishment using these platforms to silence their opposition. And they start directly having the government involved in choosing what narratives go up and what narratives go down. That's the whole thing the Twitter files revealed. We have all of these government security agencies weighing in on narratives and deciding who to censor or who " can speak but don't have reach" based on neoliberal interests. Ultimately the problem is the collusion between the elite government power centers and the corporations. And that is the exact same disambiguation that the CIA uses to mask government policy. You don't get the problems without the government interference. Is the issue the government or is it the businesses? It's the structure created to remove accountability by outsourcing the responsibilities of the government to these companies so that you can pretend like you have a free internet when you don't. That's one place his analysis is off. The second one is that while I completely agree with his critiques of leaderless movements... We are also in this very moment seeing the worst consequences of movements with leaders. Those of us who went out and supported Bernie Sanders to try to get to similar goals now have a theoretical leader on the "left" straight up parroting the talking points of neoconservatives and promoting very ideologies and policies that they ran to oppose. The problem with the American form of fascism is that it buys off or destroys all of its opposition. We have a weaponized media that does the bidding of this political agenda and it's unstoppable. If you stand up to it they will go after you until they either destroy your reputation and make you the enemy or just deplatform you or you cave and repeat their talking points. Neither one is really a solution. I would love for it to be... But it's not.

Wiley Michelle B

Talking about Brazil though, it also seems like acknowledging where these protest movements are also being infiltrated and weaponized is critical. That is 1,000% what happened in Ukraine. We know America was heavily involved in Brazil considering the CIA's role in the jailing of Lula DeSilva and the promoting of that judge who then ran years worth of news cycles, claiming that these leaders were corrupt in ways that they ultimately didn't really turn out to be. Not that they were perfect, but that was years of propaganda and it was coming out of western influence and money. I think for other countries the key is passing the law like the one they tried to pass in Georgia when America went after them... They need to call out America when it's funding, political groups or outlets for information. Really they should be doing it for every country that has any influence. Because I don't think that the issue is that America actually thinks those people just want to ally with them... American influence knows exactly what it is and the intention is to convince these people you're going to help them when in reality your goal is to ensure BlackRock and Vanguard make the most on their investments and that America can cheaply exploit labor and resources. There's no way to square that circle because America's intention is never going to be to help. That's just not what we do. Not without just a completely different foreign policy.

Major Pisano

No show today because brace is fighting the IDF . Making good, fighting for the pflp

Wiley Michelle B

Also, did he just say that if the current media gets destroyed we get oligarchs running the media? I don't understand how that is not how it works right now. What do we think the MSM is exactly? It's corporately funded oligarch owned propaganda that gets most of its money from pharmaceutical companies and apparently the military industrial complex by the guests they're having on. I don't think we should conflate the idea of individuals working in media with the need to completely eradicate the structure of the mainstream media complex right now. I believe there are probably a lot of very good journalists currently working in institutions who are wasting their talents. And we've seen that the majority of legitimately good muckreaking journalists end up in independent outlets. I shouldn't even use that term lol

People's Housing Project

I think this is my favorite individual episode. This ruled, Vincent kicks ass

Anon Ibid

The longer the intro went on the more brace sounded like alex jones

surrander 2000

Vince@ 103:50 "wistfully", 104:15 "really really quickly", Liz@ 104:40 "That feeling like something's changing", brings up memories for me of the 'sixties, so I put this forward for your consideration: Be it "popular ferment", "mass strike wave", or "groundswell of support", a) the original cause is the oppressive entity, b) the way I know the electric sense of possibility is real is that hundreds of people are feeling it, and c) prepared minds advancing reasoned proposals begin the process which ends with strong consensus decisions. Brace & I both have experience of entities where the highest-status job title is "servant."

Mitch Laird

He does kind of look like Vince Vaughan fr

Trees

Stark, hollow town, Carson city lights Baby let's get high Spend a johnny's cash, hitch another ride We laugh until we cry You say "go fast", I say "hold on tight" In the dead of night, dead of night

Laurie Mackin

Lovely man, but like, he does undisputably look like Vince Vaghn