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858 - That’s Not Entirely Accurate feat. Jon Bois (8/12/24) (Patreon)

Published:
2024-08-13 06:36:15
Imported:
2026-06

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Content

We’re joined by video doc king Jon Bois to discuss some of his recent projects with Secret Base, specifically REFORM!, a history of Ross Perot and the Reform party. Jon shares his fascination and research into this bizarre eddy of American electoral politics, the various cranks and characters that populated it, and how the Reform Party prefigured a swath of our current political landscape. We also touch on James Rebhorn’s character in Independence Day, slipping on banana peels, and the best and worst of Olympic sports.

Part 1 of the REFORM! Series is on YouTube here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqqaW1LrMTY

Subscribe to Secret Base on Patreon for all of their premium content: https://www.patreon.com/SecretBase

Rick Perlstein's POW/MIA piece Amber recommended: https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/enduring-cult-vietnam-missing-action/

Files

Comments

Christopher Green

My folks were going to vote for him, till he left the race and then re-entered. He had good odds before that.

Junes2k

True Anon has a fantastic two part ep on the POW/MIA bullshit. 321 & 322. It’s great.

Kyle Palmer

This episode was tailor-made for me - I love Jon Bois.

Christopher Green

40:30 Rush Limbaugh was actively targeting the daughter already.

Ivan Lopez

I can just barely recall one early memory watching the 1996 presidential debate with my parents on tv. It’s hazy. But I do remember my parents being receptive to whatever Perot was saying. It wasn’t until the lead up to the invasion of Iraq when I was in high school that I really paid any attention to politics. It just felt so wrong. Shit got real then. I do remember being pissed about the 2000 election and the hanging chads. Zoomers are too young to remember but they hung all the chads. The rest is history. Also does anyone remember the Phil Donahue show? I remember thinking it was good and then it got canned because he showed a minimal level of dissent against the Iraq war.

Joel Marks

I am awaiting the inevitable secret base x chapo crossover about the history of boy bands aptly named "Bois to Men-aker"

Guy Incognito

My dad gets laughs at this rebhorn line every time, just bursting with excitement right before it gets dropped

Stu

Holy shit

Morgan

Hell yes! I was hoping they would do an episode with Jon about his reform vid since it dropped

CheleVeneno

Jesse "the mind" ventura

ZeeBee

The New York Hardcore episode of Donahue is an all time classic

bruce

Virgin properly completed ballot vs the hanging chad

Matthew

Amber begins speaking at 3:59 🙌

Smith

in the appropriate circumstances that Mitchell quote is so dope.

etienne

POW-MIA, italian for "pound me please"

Nolan

‘Chart Party’ is brat

sweetiepie

Thanks for the rec im listening with my breakfast now

Brent

100% Amber’s take on Olympic sports

Eroq

Jon Bois!

Noel Haren

Hell yeah I just rewatched “Pretty Good” last week. Love Jon Bois

Matthew

Uncritical support for your Movie Mindset request for Aronofsky's Pi ✊

TC

Every time my kids and I see a POW/MIA I point and shout “Fake flag!”

Michael Ouderkirk

Great episode. I'm about the same age as Will and Jon. The 92 election is the earliest one I followed and featured the first debates I watched with my parents. Surprised there was no mention of Perot's running mate, Adm. James Stockdale! For the VP debate, my dad suggested we watch Comedy Central's "Indecision '92" telecast, viewable here: https://youtu.be/zjGFKJ69Uyg?si=8V-ACotiwxL8CUkS Skip to ~19:40 or so to see the visualization of the debate as a literal horse race. I remember turning to my mom and asking "is this how these are really scored?"

Dame

Bobby Petrino your abandonment of the Falcons will follow you to hell

Doug Cartel

The one time america DID have a POW after Vietnam, everyone called Berghdahl a traitor, so we probably dont need the flag up at every fucking post office anymore

FA

very proud of Felix for managing a whole 12 and a half minutes before his first combat aircraft reference this episode

Derek Winter Schultz

Can someone please explain the u-haul joke around 41 min in.

HeyB00B00

The show really sucks without him

helvetica.hottie

True Anon did a great ep about the whole pow mia thing.

Jim Chapman

Ross Perot talked about 2 Live Crew? How did I miss this? How has my life not been enriched by it?

Patrick Allen

Giving the episode numbers?! Doing God’s work.

Jennifer Reft

This was the first election I voted in-this all checks out. Yes, the media talked about the deficit CONSTANTLY

Mac

Watched The Game last night. Get out of my head Chapo

Andrew M

a wild amber appears!

Clay Jackson

TrueAnon did a pow mia series. Turns out there are neither pow’s nor mia’s

Cameron

Talk shit on basketball again you limp wristed, quasi-intellectual, mouth breathing nerds

Cullen S

After Will’s intro, Jon missed a crucial moment to just scream/blurt.. “HELLO BOYS! I’M BACKKKK!!”

Jaime Christley

Any American GI stuck in Vietnam after the war is eating good as hell. None of that DoorDash ass bánh mì. Why leave?

CS

This is the same Jon Bois who gave hockey twitter its greatest tweet, right?

danny

amber we love you we miss you

Munir hakim

The Perot museum in Dallas is pretty cool. Also I fucked him.

Jimmy Dean

Anyone have a link to the Independence Day video discussed in the ep?

take it or leave it

Jim and Matt Barnes have played for the Knicks. Scottie has not.

Stop the Spread

Starting to love and want to foot worship Amber… Kidding. Fuck Amber. 😏

Stop the Spread

I remember, vaguely, my mom kinda fucking with Ross and then getting angry about the “you people” shit. And rightfully so.

Tina Paracord

Knocking doors for uncommitted in MT I met 3 different people that said they were lifelong Republicans except for Ross Perot

Ian H

Olympic dogfighting should be done with pre-Fokker synchronisation gear WW1 planes, where the pilots just got close and shot at each other with revolvers or carbines.

danny

uhaul lesbian is a joke about how quickly lesbians move in together

Reece Coren

pat buchanan over jessie ventura is almost as bad as tobias harris over jimmy butler

Tim O'

But seriously, why watch overtime playoff hockey when you can simply snort cocaine and ride a motorcycle out of a helicopter.

Demented Avenger

Something to watch instead of Hot Seat reruns!

Jessica S

True Anon did an episode on POW MIA that was great. Crazy how that myth perpetuates. And how post offices fly their flags of all places? 🤷‍♀️ Was there a temporary campaign to ship them home through USPS? Lol

Romulus V. Snakehead

"You want to bomb these people into the Stone Ahe but you dont care about who. Gets. Hurt."

Joe

DAYYVIDDD

Trevor Olson

“U-Haul lesbians”- a joke/stereotype/slang phrase that lesbians move in together very early on in a relationship

Natalie

I love Bois saying Perot never uses commas and can see all the short stubby sentences Perot would've wrote, and then Will proceeds to read a paragraph full of comma-less sentences

Jack

more amber!!!!!!

Ben Peltz

Olympic Dog Fighting: American Pitbulls vs Chinese Pengolins

Travis

Felix begins speaking at 11 minutes and 34 seconds

buttface

My wife rolling her eyes and leaving the room as the theme song begins to play... It's chapo time!

Eric Jacobsen

"Why was the deficit such a big deal in the nineties" because it was just another dumb blunt stick that the right could use to whack the left with. Whenever Dems were in power, GOP would shout "what about the deficit?!?" and the thin-skinned Dems would respond by *actually reducing it*. As soon as the game of musical chairs shifted back into the GOP’s favor, they’d put that stick back in the closet until the next time they needed it. I imagine that it's only faded out of favor because it’s very easy now to google charts showing deficit growth under red and blue presidential terms…

Peanut Horse

Wish Jon did more guests appearances, he’s always had a great vibe

B R

im too young to remember the 1992 election but i do remember 1996, specifically bc Nickelodeon had a “kids pick the president” phone poll and my brother asked permission from our parents to call in and vote perot, lmao

Jonathan G

Another round of crow for Will on Shapiro/Walz please

Adam H.

Millennials should remember the Ross Perot character on All That.

Patrick Dalton

My wife says "chapochapochapo" in a funny little voice when she hears it lol

TubiRocks

Wait...Roland Emmerich and Dean Devlin have created THREE spite characters, including Mayor Ebert and his assistant Siskel, that they never fucking bothered to kill?

Dennis

iirc, thx to Liz Warren and lil rubio, it’s legally required that the pow mia flag fly at every federal property where there’s also a US flag flying 😑

will michel

i was gonna say perot kinda reminds me of lamar jimmerson

——

I think Tucker is more influential than ever.

will michel

actually this whole thing just reminds me of masters of atlantis

A Gee Cook

Ross Perot’s autobiography was the inspiration for Karl Ove Knausgard. Same writing style

LankyShooter

Selfish promo for practical shooting competition in Olympics (I.e. not just bullseye format). White collar nerds doing John Wick style shooting better than any bloodless operators. Would probably accelerate gun control against working ppl tho so maybe not. Three foreign guys just walloped Americans at our own USPSA nationals and it’s hilarious. Def ban equestrian dorks.

KatrinaJadeHelm

Type “rat poison brandy Jon bois” into YouTube for a tremendously good video about the 1904 marathon

protob1

An echo chamber for homosexualists.

etienne

I didn't sit down to watch it yet but Smiling Friends seems like it takes place in a universe where Perot won '92, which sounds pretty fun

Michael

"People, they might have a position or two that they can clack together, but they don't necessarily jive with one another their just the two last things they heard people say." Which is why as Matt Christman said once you need real political movements and organizations to help channel peoples' energies into a coherent political project.

Michael

So the American founders and Joesph Stalin were on the same page when it came to factionalism.

Jesse

Immediately where my brain went and I was so lost for about 30 seconds when they were talking about gen this and gen that

Jesse

Tobias Harris immediately the player I thought of when Jon started making the analogy

Marduk

Like Jon Bois, I was 9 during the 1992 presidential election (turned 10 shortly thereafter). My experience was similar to his and Amber’s — hearing a lot of discussion about Ross Perot because he was such a unique figure who wasn’t a Republican or Democrat so the election was “exciting.” I also remember almost no substantive policy issues discussed other than the deficit. That was by far the biggest. And when Jon mentioned AM talk radio and deficit and campaign finance talk, I remember that well also. My father was an avid talk radio listener during that era. Lots of Rush Limbaugh. Truly Limbaugh’s golden era. End Of History — simpler times.

Jessica S

YES, its insane considering in the early 90s none other that the Johns Kerry and McCain headed a committee that concluded there is “no compelling evidence that proves that any American remains alive in captivity in Southeast Asia.” But pointing that out is the conspiracy, not the actually enshrining of an actual conspiracy into federal mandate. I was a bit shocked to find out that the flag is just a creation of a 501 (c)(3) group. I figured it was a defense department flag. Chapo needs to create a 501 group and we can lobby to mandate the flag be flown. We just need a flag design, lol.

Marduk

Not sure if it’s intended by the show’s creators, but in my mind, Mr. Boss IS Ross Perot.

Marduk

Mine too

Marduk

Also, they definitely did “Kids Voting.” I can’t remember if it was actually conducted at the polls on Election Day or just at school, but I definitely remember filling out a ballot at a desk behind a cardboard privacy divider (the kind they used to make sure no one cheated on a test in school). Pretty sure I voted Perot because that’s who my parents supported.

Agent Grange

He totally fucked up the Scout Law by the way. Ironically the one tenant he missed outright was "a scout is clean."

Rix Yarbrough

careful asking for dogfighting, we'll end up with kite fighting

etienne

the DEA cocaine enforcement unit flag, duh

Reece Coren

you can have that one i’ll take jalen reagor over justin jefferson

Lord-Admiral of the Pyrenees

How was Pat Buchanan and electoral bomb??!! What about all the elderly Jewish voters in Florida he won over?

Agent Grange

I just want to say I agree with Amber, the reason I don't watch a lot of Olympic sports is the same reason why I don't watch Eurovision. Subjectivity. That said I agree with felix, we should let people do Olympic dog fighting but with those radar-guided tactical nukes Solo Wing Pixy throws at you in Ace Combat Zero. And the event needs to end in a trench run / tunnel segment.

Nomad22

I kind of remember the 1992 election even though I was in third grade. Or, maybe I just remember reading accounts of it. Either way, I do know that the country entered a rather sharp recession following the Gulf War. Combined with the collapse/relocation of unionized manufacturing companies in the rust belt gaining momentum, and there was a lot of discontent. Even places like California were hit hard by defense industry cutbacks following the end of the Cold War, which coincided with the LA riots. So, it wasn't just "vibes" that led to the discontent at the time. Of course, the economy recovered in many places by the mid to late 90's with the dot com boom and a flood of easy credit facilitated by low interest rates and financial deregulation, so by 2000 interest in challenging the Dem/Rep. duolopoly and really politics in general disappeared. 2016 and Trump was different because unlike the 90's, the Republican establishment was discredited by the Second Iraq War and the financial crisis. Last, at the risk of triggering Felix: The border wall crap and invectives against immigrants did echo Buchanan's campaigns in the 90's. I remember Pat proposing to deploy the military to the Mexican border. And, even though Buchan was an electoral dud, he did manage to run a stronger than expected insurgent campaign against the first Bush in 92.

Caesaro

Oh boy a deep dive into Ross Perot, perfectly relevant and best choice of current events to cover

CamScott

I just changed the tidal table with the rolling of my eyes over this comment

Robert

They have been covering Palestine and the election pretty in depth. There is another 3 months until the elections.

Tim O'

And not a moment too soon

CamScott

Pow Mia is a drill rapper Pee -Oh -Double You Em -Eye -Ehhh is the flag of the fathers that went to Vietnam for smokes and never came home. Calling it POW MIA is very Gen Zoom

Tim O'

It's on the Secret Base Patreon

eduard karpoev

Not knowing about POW/MIA I see someone is sleeping on listening to trueanon eps

Caesaro

I have accumulated all Ross Perot knowledge through years of meticulous study, more than your mind could conceive of let alone hold before shrieking into madness. We will hold this esoteric lore close unto the end of the world lest the peons forget it and usher in their deserved apocalypse.

Caesaro

The only three topics: Palestine, the election, and Ross Perot

Mork

The cyclone is not the oldest wooden rollercoaster in the US. Wow amber re-writing history AS USUAL. #psyop

Clean Beans

Felix's idea sounds like turning the olympics into eurovision

fisher ilijasic

felix that subtle floss latino reference did not go unnoticed

sean the horny corpse ghost 👻

my dad left my mom for his secretary and he ended up leaving the secretary too. i think he still smokes winstons.

Robert

I will grant you this, not hearing Will do his McLaughlin impression was a major let down. We got a little of the old Pat from TMG but not enough.

billbo

Very flub heavy episode

ALR

The 1983 movie Uncommon Valor may or may not be a fictionalized depiction of Bo Gritz's Laos adventure and features Robert Stack as a Ross Perot-like figure who bankrolls the mission.

Caesaro

True. Also it just underscores Matt’s absence, really makes me miss him and his historical perspective on and contextualization of electoral history

CamScott

Yeah I was in second or third grade and it was Reagan v Mondale…. They asked to raise your hand for your vote; Mondale was first and I was the only one who raised my hand as my father was a never Reagan former Marine. They all laughed at me. I learned a valuable political lesson that day; never vote out loud.

William

What should they be covering that they’re not, or haven’t?

William

Who’s that

Axel H.

I’m starting to understand the context of The Simpsons’ “Deficit Rag” (featured in an episode that aired in the fall of 1991).

Zach G

Oh hell yes. I've been out of the Jon Bois ecosystem for a little while but excited to dive back in. Shout out to I WISH EVERYONE ELSE WAS DEAD, one of the greatest videos I've ever seen.

Casey

Can anyone explain the uhaul joke? Subaru owner?

Robert

Lesbian jokes

J P 3

1992 recession + his anti-NAFTA position was a selling point for Perot. After 1992, the two major parties also changed the debate rules to exclude minor parties. The 1992 campaign was also probably the last political campaign where Saturday Night Live had any kind of influence. e.g. a time when the three major networks and Fox were still dominant, before cable had 100+ channels. The internet was also just barely getting started as a consumer product.

J P 3

Search the term "Lesbaru"

Noah Mingus

Connor O'Malley says "remember what the aliens did to the White House in Independence Day? Ya - I don't think they went far enough"

samingt0n

Feel like Emmerich loves spite characters - the mayor everyone hates in Godzilla was called Mayor Ebert, and his assistant was named Gene; i assume because they hated his earlier work

burglerian jihad

slipping on banana peels should be an Olympic sport

Lochlyn

What a guest

m@tt

Something to do with their 2nd dates involving plans to move in together…hence UHaul.

Buried Ledes

The TrueAnon stuff about POW/MIA is great. I had no idea that post offices are required to fly the flag and now I’ve Baader-Meinhof phenomenon’d myself into seeing it everywhere.

Last Years Man

My racist, four-time widowed Italian grandmother totally voted for Pat Buchanan.

Last Years Man

I'd totally be down for Red Baron style Olympic dogfighting.

Mark Schneider

Patreon totally won't play this episode for me!! This never happened before. I've gone to Sound Cloud since it's a Monday episode, but this isn't cool.

Natalie

that article was great Amber, thanks for sharing

David Lunney

Took a chance on that dog of the south, seems great, very engaging central character. Currently free on audible fyi

Archie MacLellan

What was the episode of secret base they recommended? Thanks lads

——

Kids were more aware of Perot bc of “all that” ?

Dan

I’m loving the ganz and bouie erasure with this one. By the way what’s stopping the pod from getting Jesse venture on to talk about the reform party?

Tucci

Rebhorn is great in Carlito's Way

MKatieUltra

With the HW wedding sabotage, it's so wild how CIA guys just wanna do pranks

Natalie

works for me maybe try uninstalling and reinstalling the app?

Aaron Enold

When I was a little kid I got stung in the ear by a bee and after it swelled up my grandma told me I’m “handsome like Ross Perot”

Andrew Brewster

Joe Nimziki is a friend of mine and this story is 100% true. John McTiernan also once threatened to kill him 😂

Jonathan G

Hey Awesome People: Chapo Trap House just recommended episode 1 and 1 other creator

Kevin Spicer

I didnt invent anything as a child but I did attempt to recreate Wrigley field in the next door neighbors yard. Gave up eventually when I couldnt figure out how to build an mlb style dugout.

Chris T

All said and done, a pretty good “I didn’t do the homework” episode.

etienne

and in the background you have, in Matt's words, the world's most cucked man George H.W. Bush, who spent a lifetime serving Moloch at the highest levels only to get *owned* by a tiny business downturn

etienne

I love that patreon keeps fucking up the delivery of the actual content I am actively paying for but rolling out features like "hey! here's a post from 4 months ago you might enjoy!" or "there are other podcasts that exist! here are some of them : )"

I am become reply guy

Their love of mischief really comes through in all the wacky ways they tried to kill Castro.

David DeCorte

Hate on the 90s Chargers all you want, but Junior Seau six-time All Pro.

MKatieUltra

I'm Johnny Knoxville and this is Murk'd

Tim O'

Did a ghost tell you that if you build it, they will come?

Tim O'

Will Menaker is a lesbian, confirmed

Kevin Spicer

I feel like a wigged george h.w. bush is around every corner trying to get me tonhavr sex with him. Just so he can prove to all my friends and family that I'm actually gay.

Phil N

How about endurance racing as an olympic sport? Spec series cars, 3 driver person team, 12 person pit team, 24 hour endurance race.

Lukas Kuligowski

loving the nice and healthy reply, great vibes, keep it up!

syd

The airplane hypothetical is making me self conscious about watching Love Lies Bleeding on the plane, which is not only violent but has several sex scenes and I was in an aisle seat. My strategy was to pretend that I was extremely uninterested in these attractive women fucking eachother by like.. looking around the plane while they were going on lol

danny

kick rocks

Whucko Jaang

The passengers viewing over your shoulders thank you.

MKatieUltra

In college, I painted the wrigley marquee on a brick wall in the backyard of my dad’s friends’ bar in Forest Park. I did the 368 on a board with fake brick painted under it and they put that in some ivy. That was the year of Steve Bartman lol.

George P

I hope no one in the Chapoverse out in LA is adversely affected by the arrest of the Ketamine Queen

Gooch Immane

"Eh, thees-a beeg-a Aireesh man, he talk so mean abow da moolie, he soun' like-a nonno Benito, che bello!"

Last Years Man

She-a love-a de war de cultura. She-a think-a de George Bush is-a... how you say, he eat his pasta with limpa de wristo. He takea dah gun and leaveah da cannoli.

Gooch Immane

Slingshots and crossbows in autogyros, inshallah

Gooch Immane

Let's pray Felix never discovers Lydia Litvak or the Night Witches unit. It would make his Austro-Hungarian empress crush look like a flimsy trifle. He could stay simping on that past the point where he remembers what chapo was.

Tyler Sutherland

Kendrick Lamar enters as the US Olympic rapper and Drake is Canada's, just so we can see Kendrick murder him for a 4th time