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639 - Two Dicks, One Coup feat. Jefferson Morley (6/23/22) (Patreon)

Published:
2022-06-24 02:06:26
Imported:
2026-06

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Content

Author and journalist Jefferson Morley joins the boys to talk about his new book “Scorpions' Dance: The President, the Spymaster, and Watergate” which examines the CIA’s role in Watergate and the ensuing power struggle between Nixon and his DCI Richard Helms. Morley breaks down “The Cuban Thing” and “who shot John”, as well as the the past, present and future of The Agency and the fun and colorful biographies of CIA all-stars Howard Hunt and James Jesus Angleton.

Visit https://jfkfacts.org/ for more info

Find Jefferson’s books here: https://jeffersonmorleybooks.com/

Find Jefferson on Twitter here: https://twitter.com/jeffersonmorley

Tickets to our upcoming live shows + our summer merch sale can be found over on www.chapotraphouse.com

Files

Comments

Jon Spiegler

Scorpion’s Dance was an instant classic

Nat Cohen

hell yes! I'd preordered it because of noah kulwin, rules so far

Flesh Colored Subaru

Folks the real "bay of pigs" is the sound of journalists tweeting

Harley

Gotta listen to this now!!

john mccainus

james jesus angleton's just alright with me

Yairo Martis

This is eerie as hell. I've been watching Oliver Stone's 'Nixon' repeatedly over the past week or two, and today I saw 'Dick' with Kirsten Dunst and Michelle Williams. Apparently, I can't live without Dick.

Michael

Morley just completely destroying Russ Baker's entire narrative on Water Gate without breaking a sweat.

Woke Batou

Again, True Anon better than True Anon

caroline

heretic, blasphemer

justdave

This senior chapo, is why i pay your monthly extortion of over 100 pesos, you hungry coyotes! *spits*

Joe

Thanks for keeping it light, guys. #grillpillsummer

Titivilis

Gotta say I never could quite buy the whole "burglars put the tape on sideways on purpose" shit.

Hudson

Logoff nerd

Dan

This guy is a lib. His response to whether or not the CIA was trying to remove Nixon is that Richard Helms was pleasant to Nixon’s face, and felt secure in his place under Nixon; this, while also acknowledging that Richard Helms is a proven liar, and that he was blackmailed by Nixon and was repeatedly under threat of being fired. He discounts Will’s question re: the CIA’s possible role in the Jason Bourne movies/ Hollywood with a vague “Hollywood is good at picking up what resonates in the culture”...in spite of his previous acknowledgment that the CIA produced the animated “Animal farm” film.

Dan

Did he?

Turlough Kelly

That sudden disorientation when you realise Matt & Felix are on the call twenty minutes in

Gary Alexander

Liberal researchers have their uses. You think those many, many pages of Parliamentary inquiries into the degradations of industry that Marx referenced in Capital were the product of socialist politicians?

justdave

Joel white, double negative, your not a real person

justdave

If you comment again, your a jerk off

Isaac Jones

Brother they did it twice

justdave

Everyone with a last name starting in 'k' is communist spy? What a nut

William

Chapo was on the poppy beat before true anon was and the poppy story already talked about Watergate as payback

William

Lol the security officer found tape, took it off, and the burglars put the tape on a second time, sideways again. There's nothing to believe, other than the testimony I guess

William

Good point. While we're at it, we should throw out everything pearlstein wrote too - all that Nixonland and Reaganland horseshit is null and void if he's also a dang lib

Flesh Colored Subaru

You know for someone who posts so much you think you'd start to get better at it

William

Good instincts. Every prominent Greek is a CIA asset

justdave

Jesus guys, tell jokes, stop shit talking, it's not a contest

justdave

And I'm great

William

You're the one shit talking - if you did start telling jokes I think people would appreciate it more than.. whatever the fuck this always is

No

The Bourne movies go incredibly hard

justdave

Appreciate! WHO THE F U CK ARE YOU?

justdave

Watch, tell a joke, tell a story, if its unbelievable- the better, if its made up, WHO CARES! This is what parasocial means, we don't know eachother, just assume I'm a crazy person with a gun (I'm not, i mean i did spend two years in a mental hispital, but i dont have gun)

ClownBabee24

James Jesus Angleton was an absolute freak

William

Morley was a little bit clumsy with his presentation of the story. There seems to be more leaps in logic that Morley doesn't describe well. Russ Baker's version is more polished and makes more sense - feels like you just want to piss on Baker

William

Morley seems a little more in awe of Helms than he should be, for an unbiased presentation of the story

William

Paraphrasing, but, "there were CIA people involved [in JFK assassination]. But that doesn't mean it was a CIA operation" is a severely underrated point that could be misconstrued as saying "oh it wasn't CIA". A bunch of skull and bones boys doing an "off the books" op to get revenge for their friend Alan Dulles seems very likely I mean, the business plot was only thirty years previous and it seems to share a lot of the same interested parties plotting behind the scenes

William

I just assume you're an unfunny person who never shuts up. And I meant "appreciate" as in, "people would like it better if you were telling funny jokes instead of writing dumb shit constantly"

SF

So what. Peter Dale Scott is a "lib" and he's done much more vital work than most of the epic gritty soi-disant marxists on twitter.

Michael

Of coarse Baker’s version is more “polished.” The people who buy simple narratives like the one he sells, “here are the bad guys and everything bad in the world is their fault,” like a good story with simple answers hence Baker’s thriller novel telling of events.

Clint Pelvis

such a felix reply guy like in twitter 🙄

Clint Pelvis

i was talking about william u nerd 🙄

justdave

Sorry bro, im goin through alot, my life is so crazy right now, Im actually getting a six pack and i dont work out

Isaac Kalish

I am telling folks once again to read James Hougan's Secret Agenda, now out of print.

justdave

Great title, as always, you guys fukn rule

chapotraphouse

I mentioned how this dovetailed with our Poppy series to Morley while waiting for everyone to log on, he said something like "ah yes, well George was always there, waiting in the background, ready to lend a...'helping hand'".

Zarathushtra

If a president wanted to disband the CIA, they would need to create an arm of the secret service just to protect them from the CIA.

Scott

🧐

Nolan

Scorpians Dick.

Dinosaur

inb4 stavros

Titivilis

I get it but that doesn't mean they weren't just being stupid about it. I don't think stupid is a big stretch for these guys.

justdave

🗑 🔫 🏃‍♂️

Ted

Stavvy next CIA director, baby!

Playdoh

Find the synthesis: -there may have been a fix on the Watergate break-ins -it wasn't necessarily Helms or the camp he was in that pulled the trigger on it -elements of the security state took advantage of the circumstances, *regardless* of whether they intended to stitch up Nixon

Playdoh

Do you think Russ Baker really portrayed the Kennedy, Johnson or Nixon admins as "the good guys"?

Playdoh

will menaKer liz franczaK noah Kulwin yung chomsKy something, something "CONNECT THE SYMBOLS, Q OUT"

Playdoh

That's discounting the fact that MOST intel ops are done "unofficially" for the sake of plausible deniability. Just because something wasn't funded or authorized through official channels and put on the record, doesn't mean it isn't tacitly approved or even ordered by those in positions of leadership and power. It's really not worth drawing the line between intelligence/corpos/criminals/fanatics in that milieu. Muddying the waters and casting blame on "rogue actors" is their whole M.O.

Mads

True Anon still better

Patrick

Did Will apologize for swearing?

Mitch H.

Aw shit I swapped my cyanide capsules for dick pills

SF

A bunch of TrueAnon listeners decided Brace & Liz were "crypto-libs" after their interview with Julie K Brown. Once patreon commenters get to a certain point they decide everyone is a lib apart from about 5 parapolitics accounts they follow on twitter, who they will also disavow as libs a couple months from now, at which point they will end up like Gene Hackman at the end of The Conversation.

etienne

and the funny thing is that it was probably reffering to KIM Philby. firstname k

blackFFillip

You’re into umms and uhhs too? 🤜

Clinton Gill

You all really talked about neurodivergent autists seeing patterns at the end, and no one went with the Mercury Rising reference...

THEKILLERWHALE

So, the next time an interviewee says something like "Sure, I have a list of CIA agents who could reasonably be involved in the assassination and I can tell you why and how they would have done it", you should definitely say "Go on ....."

colin muller

What's next chapo shuts down too ffs

Jonathan G

It's cute when they try and riff with the old bat. Just kidding. I don't really know who he is.

Gentlesir

I like how they calmly sidestep his lib-brained takes on trump. Kinda sus of him, actually. Once you start saying “well you know the cia would be worse if trump took it over” you’ve lost the script.

J.W.

He's not a riffer, that's clear.

JN

Anti-polish bias

justdave

Who keeps letting you people in here!?

Marina

I beg you with all my heart, please talk more about the Bourne movies. I don’t even care if you spend the whole time bashing them. Do fun episodes when there’s a news lull where you review them. Those movies slap so hard I just want to hear you guys talk about them. 😂

JASON

The show has a more overt gay agenda now that Stavvy is gone. He was the straightest guy on the show.

Patrick

I think you misinterpreted it, I think he was trying to say if the CIA and trump weren’t each trying to ultimately control the govt, and instead were working together, would be much worsw

John

I really hope there's a Cuban rapper named AMTHUG

Michael S. Judge

Not to slight JM, because he's doing important work, but I find it very strange that he "doesn't see" the anti-Nixon CIA angle, a) right after describing how Nixon was using his knowledge of the actual Kennedy assassination to blackmail Helms into acting as his bulldog, not least because Nixon oversaw Group 40 and would likely have had a pretty good idea of how JFK died, and b) right after running through a list of Watergate burglars/conspirators who were the same guys included in or hired by Group 40, Mongoose, ZR/RIFLE, and various other anti-Castro plots, guys who were connected to the Bay of Pigs and sometimes even present at the botched coup, AND guys who have their fingerprints all over JFK's death, which I think is best considered (on the large scale) as a domestic extension of the plan to kill Castro. "Not getting called before a grand jury to explain how you helped kill John Kennedy" sounds like a motive to me. And like JM says, this was pre-Church, pre-HSCA, pre-Family Jewels, even pre-Rockefeller Commission, which was, in Nixon's immortally weird English, an intentional limited hangout. The CIA had *everything* to hide, especially from a President who actually thought he ran the country.

Yairo Martis

To catch a mole, you've got to be loose; looser than a grey goose.

Alan Fulcher

I love that Matt got paid for this. He said like 10 words the whole time