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711 - Bayesian Prior Movers feat. Jacob Bacharach (3/3/23) (Patreon)

Published:
2023-03-03 06:23:17
Imported:
2026-06

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Content

Guess what? Havana Syndrome’s not a real thing, who would have guessed? Then, we look at the New York Times two ways: (1) their insistently hysterical and “non-activist” coverage of trans issues, and (2) another op-ed detailing the plight of conservatives on America’s most prestigious campuses. All featuring our friend and returning guest Jacob Bacharach.

Files

Comments

Jack

Gay

Toddy Todd

Driving in my gay car rn

Mitch H.

I feel like gay Flanders

Evan

5th gay comment!!

Naked Shitter

Took me a double take to confirm this wasn't the cumtown comment section

Daniel Martínez González

So, is the CIA going to give the money back and send their agents to alcohol anonymous or what

J. A.

I'm gay

TugNuggins

Where's Felix man, getting concerned

CJ

CIgAy

MoriBones

I can't believe felix is fucking died 😔

Aaron Baer

Felix & Amber are a couple ... When is the announcement ? Felix isn't gay ...

kenton

when he said "fora" instead of forums i almost turned into a terf

David Browm

They compromised Felix to a temporary end

J.P. McD.

I finally used Felix’s term “romantic partner” today in the workplace (to refer to a regular hook up in a socially acceptable manner) and it was very well received, one guy lol’ed.

T.A. Martin

Super simple solution to Matt's proposal to destroy the Ivy League would be to take their endowments, and research grants and give them to public colleges. If they survive, so be it, and if they fail it's because they failed in the marketplace.

stan says I'm done with sergio

I'm going to check my Bayesian priors privilege after pushing Jonathan chait down 16 flights of stairs

Cumtickles

I am gay and my dick is small

Daniel Martínez González

Probably just in a CS:GO competition, before his last traces of youth's eye-hand coordination fades away. I hope he wins that last new laser mouse with high polling rate.

SCB

Chapotraphouse.

Tristan Clark

Definitely read this in Obama's voice

plainwrap

I feel like at the root of the anti-trans crusade is the same type of resentment chuds and reactionary liberals have whenever this country tries to bestow some kind of equitable mercy on a marginalized group. The U.S. still has that nosy pilgrim mindset. They're not uncomfortable about kids getting trans health care so much as seeing someone 'undeserving' getting care at all. Because if they're unhappy it's only fair that their neighbors should be unhappy too.

J.P. McD.

Felix is probably hurt at all the mean comments about him a couple eps ago, I hope you’re all happy

Alexandr

This is such a good episode. God damn

Jessica S

Yes, yes! I suppose it’s only fitting that it was Puritans that started Harvard, churning out many puritan clergymen in its first 70 years, adhering to puritan tenets over the same time period. Some of that had to have soaked into the walls and stuff to infect “liberals” to this day.

Michael S. Judge

There's a disturbingly untroubled faith in the "objective accuracy" of the medical-professional class in all this anti-trans bullshit, particularly on behalf of people who also think licensed medical professionals injected us all with a microchip tracking vaccine and sell aborted fetuses to Pepsi

Mitch H.

I'm not, I would like to apologize. I didn't mean it baby come back.

Jessica S

If people understood how challenging it is for teachers to teach what their required to, they wouldn’t be so stressed about excess materials. Hormone blockers are given to kids with precocious puberty, i.e. occur before say 9 or something. Which is historically very early. Evan 12 was thought to be “early” 20+ years ago. Most important, it seems like the older generations have the hardest time with this. The generation they’re in a tizzy over seems to be far less concerned about.

THEKILLERWHALE

If you think that quietly dropping that you have had sex will give you some sort of cachet around here, you are wrong. Dead wrong.

THEKILLERWHALE

On the one hand, I think that it is a slightly archaic but positive to have some kind of deference towards someone who has the training and experience of a typical doctor. It is a kind of throwback to the days of faith in social institutions that has all but died in our lifetimes. On the other hand, they are typically evil dullards in my experience and immediately get out over their skis the minute that they leave the domain of medicine. Hell, I am not even sure about them as the best source of knowledge on the subject of public health.

Tim O'

"Let me be clear: I am gay... uhh, and my dick is small."

Zach H.

Is it too paranoid to think that Havana Syndrome being ‘officially’ bullshit almost guarantees the CIA tested something on their own people again ?

William

What you don’t understand, sir, is that it’s a proven fact the longer you stay in school, the more tests you pass, the smarter you are

William

Chuds not understanding the financial realities of trans healthcare is not surprising given that they are so far removed from reality they don’t understand that if their kid doesn’t feel comfortable talking to them about how they identify, they, the parents are the problem

Doug Cartel

Qanon is a spiritual animism where every rock, tree and animal has a security camera in it

William

Most these bitches complaining “oh free thinking is banned” is just like assholes like Barry Weiss and others crying about free speech when they get rightfully shit on for their disgusting and abhorrent ideas. People who want to debate “ideas” just want to talk about the fucking bell curve and other dumb shit like that

Doug Cartel

ENERGY WAVES))))))))))))))))))))

William

Keep the Ivy League, but put the foxdie virus in the ventilation systems. Also catch and tag all the students

Josh Walker

What the fuck was that at the end?

Wawaweewa

I personally know people in the state department who absolutely insist that they know people who would never lie and they said they got the syndrome 😂😂😂

tabbyswipe

One thing to add to Bacharach's point about the psychology of it What we say about trans people and gender identities has implications for cis people, who also have gender identity and feel deeply about it, ans so then feel the right to engage in discussion about gender identity for everyone-ignoring the cis lens they live with. There is a projection component but that can distract from the plain fact we are talking about what gender and sex is, and so people who have strong feelings, then care. It's not always like "ah the transphobe is secretly insecure", sometimes they are just people with lots of weird ideas about self identity.

tabbyswipe

I think it would be helpful to have a smart and good trans person talk about why cis people care abt it rather than Jacob, though he was smart about everything else

Gabe P

Felix is out with Havana Syndrome

tabbyswipe

Because i think cis people can too easily use tropes to analyze the causes of their own discomfort/awkwardness and really tbh it takes a trans person on the outside of that cis view to understand the discomfort/disgust reflex/hate that cis people have, since we actually feel the like face to face experiences of that attitude and have the time and reason to do more self reflection and introspection. Like the whole "cis people hate trans women cus they are insecure" is one reason but it's not the whole picture. It's also reminiscent of the homophobes are gay trope. I feel like there's a really good discussion to have but literally cis people don't have lens to observe it. Jacob is smart and good, but his causal explanation of trans hate is not good or insightful

J Vladcliff

Suzie Cream cheese, what's got into ya lately?

Chris T

Skinny and even slim fit are no longer fashionable for men

Ryan

Qanon is the Katamari Democracy

Jacob

Panschizoism

Maxwell Harkness

Matt's point about colleges just being cut to the bone to become technical colleges is dead on - I went to the University of Tulsa which had a very vibrant music community and the moment i left they were basically cutting in every department that wasn't petroleum or for profit. Whatever the american university experience was, it seems like its going away quickly.

etienne

alt theory: he saw everyone saying yes please to the 2016 East Coast Media Bullshit episode and realized he'd had to do Work and went into a downwards spiral

CT

What would dismantling public schools look like? I mean, beyond how horridly dismantled they already are. I live in a major city that has gone the charter school route and obviously that has been it’s own particular hell with the underlying subtext being the dismantling of public elementary/high schools. I mean, we’ve seen how well the “defund the police” narrative has worked. I get where you’re coming from, but like, how the fuck are we going to fight the shit-libs in the city AND the gop ghouls in the state legislature and win this sort of battle??? I’m sorry but the long and short of it is everyone, kids included, are fucked until some massive tide of resentment sweeps this country from some place other than the right. Which, frankly… I don’t see us being ANYWHERE close to.

CT

Very similar to the experience of living in Richmond Va when the local in city college, VCU, made the switch from being a primarily arts focused college to that of an “engineering” one. The music and arts scene has rebounded but there was a 20 year glut in the interim.

Petrorenminbi

I majored in economics at a (supposed) top 25 business school in the mid-2010s and all we did was learn fucking equations for 4 years. And then I took a labor economics class my junior year and the (female) professor said the gender pay gap didn’t exist because some paper said so and also unions are bad because it increases the marginal cost of labor

foxy

I worked in military intelligence and frankly I am just glad that havana syndrome has a name now, even if they won't accept it's what we know it is as that lingering regret/shame over knowing you did things you knew were wrong but perhaps were convinced weren't at the time. It has always been a serious part of my ptsd when I literally sort of woke up to what we were really doing. I myself worked against the taliban and you can see how well we did with all that. There is not a lot one can do within the system but I am quite happy to be aware of what wrong was happening and try to adjust my life to more accurately follow what I believe is right/wrong. Kinda fucked up my life in the process but better than that trying to convince myself the embassy rats were beaming radiation into my brain. We did enough of that with our surveillance suites already

foxy

They want freedom from consequences rather than freedom of speech.

kee

Unreasonably jazzed at the Frank Zappa transition.

andrew rogers

I get Matt's point re: why would you go to these colleges any more, but Matt's coming from it as a 40 year old who just reads about liberals vs conservatives on campuses a lot. I don't think that's reality—from what I know from family members you can absolutely go to college nowadays and just be normal. Like Jacob's point later on that a school like ASU or whatever doesn't have those problems and is likely a similar experience to what it was years ago is more right, even if it's basically a technical school now. I think middle tier of universities are like that too. Like, you can go to school in Madison or Ann Arbor or Berkley and there'll be arguments over land acknowledgements and callouts of upperclassmen over snapchat but you can also just get an engineering degree and party with friends and do normal shit without ever thinking about or interacting with the aspects that make it to NYT editorial pages.

Bloberis SH

I went to a mid-sized state school with a sizeable and vocal activist community. They spent infinitely more time yelling at eachother in basements than they ever did interacting with say, the college republicans. And the kids in greek life or the engineering department didn't give a shit about either

Andy Orsburn

Was that the sound at the end

Ardy Rezv

This guy singed the letter lmfao. What a loser.

MC Prescott

Mfw when my Econ Professor called unionizing “voodoo economics”

J.P. McD.

I guess that’s what initially depressed him and dropped his qual down so low for people to complain. (I didn’t notice because I can rarely fully focus on podcasts or audio books)

J.P. McD.

Definitely can’t defer to doctors on everything unfortunately, I know at least 2 people who were prescribed antibiotics for Covid in December.

J.P. McD.

Yea I kinda realized that later and was planning on deleting, but I did genuinely love Felix’s usage of the term

PraiseTheSun

College centrists. I don't follow politics. I just want to grill (for tests).

PraiseTheSun

When soldiers in the Korean War came back to the U.S and talked about how all the war crimes they did in service to the U.S empire was actually a very bad and not good thing. The ruling class and their functionaries came to the totally not ideological conclusion that "the filthy communist's must have discovered some kind of mind control technique to use on our bois"

The wazzzzaaapp bud light dude

I love transphobes libeling trans people as pedos while simultaneously discussing the genitalia of children nonstop. They try to frame is they are defending kids, but every talking point they have is centered on sexualizing kids. I’m sure that’s just a coincidence.

saysthemachine

painting parental gender confusion concerns as an upper middle class issue is dishonest. they’re not even the most negatively impacted by a child being caught up in it. and continuing to frame support of gender confusion as “gender affirming” is also dishonest. The only thing that is being affirmed is a persons belief that there is something wrong with the body one has. the cognitive dissonance is palpable the angle, as a parent, is so tired.

LankyShooter

That singal bit was juicy. Mhmm. Menaker mindset navigates beef so well Blocked and reported been hitting this trans beat for fucking years and they have like 6 detrans to prop up

Nick Grayson

Please no one scream at me but the reason why *I* have chosen to check out of the trans issues is because I’ve seen enough of it where it’s pretty overly anti-woman and anti-feminist. If a biological woman has problems with it: bathrooms, sports, it jumping ahead in line of family planning and bodily autonomy stuff etc. you have to respect that as a feminist and if you’re truly in it for the betterment of the lives of all women and not respond by trying to undermine or harass or silence them. Until that trend reverses, I’m not on board.

K H

Were you confused about your body growing up? As in whether you were meant to be man or woman?

JDR 2209

Monday morning QB: the 2 syndromes are Havana and Impostor

K H

Unfortunately Havana syndrome is just a work around to avoid naming what you just did, shame and regret. Operatives literally rather get a radiation beam than confront the wickedness of they deeds.

saysthemachine

you’re oversimplifying things you couldn’t begin to grasp. that we as a people are only beginning to think about critically. it’s normal to be confused about everything when you’re young.

K H

I love increasing marginal labor costs. Gotta pay for the Onlyfans somehow. The real money is in market manipulation of the labor supply babeeeeee. It's so funny these fuckers want to always reduce costs. For what? To lower their already optimized price? No. To buy back their own stock. The money would be better literally set on fire.

Null_null

sorry to hear about jake's granpa. loved him in austin powers.

K H

That was my thinking too at first. However all the interviews seemed to indicate the people that got it were just bitch made and had a tummy ache. I absolutely thought it was a weapons test at first though.

A RHINO

JK rowlings burner account

K H

Prove it maam.

K H

Regular President of the United States of America Joe Biden?

Null_null

We are still waiting for the punchline, Nick. Whenever you're ready...

Andy West

Corporate job training centers

K H

Everyone knows if you want hormones in school the way to do it is for your dad to be the baseball coach and want you to go pro. The trans thing is so funny to me. The day we have reliable genetic and cybernetic augmentation I will be further from a man than the twinkiest transfem uWu catgirl that's ever existed. The shit I need to feel comfortable ain't even out yet. Yes I will have a fucking carapace. I will have perfectly sculpted arms underneath my large pincer claws. Your head will burst into flames and eyes melt from your head as you ask my pronouns because who the fuck gave you permission to attempt and comprehend me? That is all until I just become a perfect fist sized orb. Transgender is for normies. If there is a chemical to let you become an attack helicopter I would take it. It's fucking stupid not to. Reminds me of those anti steroid commercials where they gave you superpowers but your name would get an asterisk by it.

K H

Sports or physical competition is really the only place it matters. Even then only because you can't openly use steroids. Concern about bathrooms is just being insane. I'm also confused because it seems like you think a main adversary of feminism is somehow transwomen? Because no. That's not right.

kee

Yeah they played "Help I'm a Rock" twice around the end and as the play-out.

andrew rogers

exactly. this stuff may seem inescapable judging by volume of substack posting but it's a loud minuscule group. most people are just pregaming in the dorms playing smash bros and not engaging at all

Nicholas Kiersey

I’m just going to be a perfect cube of flesh

K102.1FM Mornings w/ Jonny Corndogs

"The U.S. still has that nosy pilgrim mindset." Yep, we're still caring the dead baggage of these fucking social weirdo protestants to this day, but that trans-fear article just shows that it's not just limited to CHUDs and bowtie dipshit debate nerds. Mr. and Mrs. Urban Liberal are not as welcoming as they want us to believe. Turns out their "This house believes" yard signs are mostly posturing. I feel like this could be tied to the Matt/Chris 30 Years War podcast, but they're rich and I'm not being paid to shill for their side projects (no matter how good it is...and it is very good).

DSK

I also went to TU, and definitely agree about the music program. They were also making huge slashes in the history department around the time I left

MediocreDude

At Penn State rn. Everything is fine. The handful of spergs who were mad about milo coming got into a shoving map with some locals who showed up to watch but thats the extent of the culture war. The university officially advertises talks by feminist PMC grifters all the time but as far as I know that's because no one ever shows up. Most people just wanna get to class, not have to bicker over squat racks at the gyms, and get drunk in the evenings.

etienne

periodical reminder that I Sexually Identify As A Attack Helicopter by Isabel Fall is good and she didn't deserve any of the shit she got

Violet

Not even sure what you're trying to say here, dude. Sounds like some transphobic crap, but it may just be poorly written. It's an upper middle class concern because the upper middle class doesn't have real concerns and thus needs inane bullshit to feel heroic over.

Violet

Cool, so you're on the side of the abusive psychos Nick. Great job. The TERFs are abusers and incoherent paranoiacs. You only need to interact with them to see that fact. Most women, trans and cis, disagree with them. Even if they didn't, your argument would be transcendently stupid on the grounds that widespread propaganda doesn't make the scawy thweat of people like me real.

saysthemachine

you’re right you don’t understand.

Violet

I certainly don't understand what you've written, because it seems like utter nonsense. Perhaps you could try to write it in a comprehensible manner? As I understand it, it seems to be a scattershot and incomprehensible version of the typical reactionary talking-point that trans people aren't trans, just "confused" and we should be forced into definitely-not-conversion-therapy to gaslight us into remaining in bodies that we hate.

Andrew Cross

oh damn you went to Princeton, homie? you only mentioned it three times by the end of the first paragraph

Checkout Chick

Absolutely NAILED the terfs. Thanks boys 🥰

Null_null

I think you need to—like everything else—have some sort of central planning vis-a-vis education. School systems vary from town-to-town, county-to-county, and state-to-state in terms of funding, policies, standards, teacher pay, etc. it’s insane. If a state decides it doesn’t care about education and doesn’t wanna pay teachers? Well fuck those schools then! There’s no law saying they can’t just say “fuck public school.so yeah, you need stronger unions and centralized gov to fix education. “Dismantling” is probably not the word, but I imagine you’re thinking more along the lines outlined above.

Teriyaki sticks

If the PNW tribe anthropological studies are busted is my copy of The Dawn Of Everything trash

james

Chapo is not doing enough for the trans community

Sam

I just think it’s bizarre to put 12 year olds on cell phones let alone puberty blockers but who the fuck am I? I just want China to accept my visa so I can have nice bureaucrat job for the state that monitors the video game activities of 9 year olds.

james

Jacob has a troubled history of speaking for trans individuals with his cis-het dilettante-ass opinions, the insecure trope is such a phone-in of a reason, probably due to fears of pissing off said trans community which is also an irrational cis-het fear

Gulb

Just wanted to drop in on a Chapo episode to drop an anti-trans garbage comment? Did you have to pay a months subscription for this? That's a firm commitment to bigotry.

james

K H why is this anecdotal information of value to you..? 😂

Gulb

So who pays the subscription fees for you guys to come in to leave anti-trans comments on patreon?

Alexander Fuchs

the fuck? don't they have twitch livestreams where they raise money for trans-lifeline or whatever? what is it with this boutique factionalism? gtfo

Damen Irving

Conservatives basically got what they wanted. Getting a degree in something without a job attached could ruin your life if you’re not wealthy. So no more effete liberal arts studies. Now get ready for the “woke colleges no longer teaching western canon” discourse.

Damen Irving

I can’t wait for colleges to just totally drop liberal arts entirely just like conservatives want and then they pivot the discourse “woke colleges no longer teaching cherished western canon.”

K H

In my cube era.

Des Mosome

Dry boys, transition ‘medicine’ is its own Pharma-industrial complex.

Violet

The cell phones are significantly more harmful. Despite the inane jabber of reactionaries, puberty blockers aren't harmful, particularly if only used for a couple years while the kid and their family work out what is best for the kid.

charlotte

my hormones cost $10/mo off insurance lol, they’re all generic

Pelican Grief

Go rams, baby! But also fuck that school at the same time.

Des Mosome

Dude, it takes a cast of thousands (metaphorically speaking).

Eddie

Who?

Damen Irving

Why’d you put medicine in quotation marks? Sus

Des Mosome

Why did your ‘sus’ go without them?

Logan

🤤🔴🧠

Yup

I think he meant "I'm a virgin" (spellcheck)

CD

That felt more like listening to a Slate podcast than Chapo. Oy.

Gulb

What is with you anti-trans psychos up in here?

Gulb

Exactly, who the fuck are you? Not a medical doctor presumably.

etienne

"I think we should improve society somewhat" "yet you use the medicine of society?"

Des Mosome

Not at all! I’m an Affirmative Ally for all humans to have uppers/downers/blockers/goers/lefters/righters.

etienne

okay but what is the information you are actually trying to convey. we went over this, hormones are pretty simple and easy molecules to make. are you advocating for a public manufacture of them or like what.

Elliot Matheny

The timing of this is interesting, given the reactionary turn of some other dirtbag left pods. Ian Fidance was going nuts on transphobic bullshit with a guest on his pod last week.

Elliot Matheny

Getting really fat and doing ketamine in Brooklyn, still wearing weird velvet blazers

Zach Pierce

Jacob called the game “Mike Tyson’s KNOCK OUT”!! See? They ARE ERASING our western culture! The name is MIKE TYSON’S PUNCH OUT. That is ERASURE of Japanese designed Western Civ!

Animals in Motion

There's plenty of cases where people have wanted to detransition once they realize that they're "just gay" – this is anecdotally, but I have two friends who are trans and have had surgery who feels that way. I don't get how people get so worked up about the need for some skepticism around transition surgery or hormones. Doesn't mean people are "anti-trans" or whatever that means, or conservative gender weirdos. There are clear sociogenic signs in many cases of gender dysmorphia, and I think it's healthy that people don't want to just rush into medicalizing young people's gender issues. Doesn't help that a big portion of trans subculture on internet is pretty insane about this. For understandable reasons, but still.

Elliot Matheny

He was shipped to a Synanon clinic to do truth telling sessions until his crippling kratom addiction has been cured.

Mike Mariano

My uncle who works at Nintendo told me the Knock Out game is real.

Sam

Gulb, I’m actually an orthodontist. So technically…yeah.

lake

Trans woman fan here and I just wanna say how happy I am to hear this episode. It’s so refreshing to know you’re on the right side of this, and you’re very well-informed as well. Don’t listen to the transphobes :)

Sam

Genuinely thank you for the info on puberty blockers. I’m not deeply invested in a position here beyond that kids need love and support. And the support some need is different than others. I just also know that kids in general are having a hard time in a collapsing state that provides them with nothing, and that sending them immediately to doctors and therapists and turning them into “patients” at such a young age is fraught with potential consequences, even with the best of intentions. I actually think the way trans kids are discussed is unnerving not just because of the cruelty posited by the right, but because of the way kids are discussed in so many contexts beyond even Trans issues. I think as a country we hate our children deeply and want them to either be targets or sick little patients. And throw in consumers as well. If I could articulate like Matt I’d probably be able to explain it better but not I’m just smoked up and ranting so night and god bless.

Gage

Because there's no reason to assume it's higher than the single tenths of a percent.

Animals in Motion

How do you figure that? It could be at least 5 percent. There's a huge blind spot. People are unwilling to respond accurately since you feel like you're a traitor to the trans cause etc. We don't know enough.

Lulu

I went to Berkeley (which is just extremely liberal, not leftist; I mean they don't care at all about the homeless that surround campus) and I just went to classes and minded my own business. There were people protesting often, but you just walk around them. I was in the humanities/social sciences and I never felt that they were really politicizing the subjects, we just learned the material. The main thing is I felt that there's a strong focus on identity/gender issues. But it's really not that difficult to just ignore things you don't agree with or that annoy you, your English professor isn't going to fail you if you don't personally use they/them pronouns. The focus was on just basic inclusion, not indoctrinating people

Lulu

This argument is fundamentally based on the belief that trans women aren't women. But, even if they weren't born biologically female and didn't grow up as young girls, they still have unique experiences and perspectives that they can add to feminism. I feel like men using the 'Oh I actually don't like trans people because I'm a feminist and support women" is just a front to disguise blatant transphobia. I also find it funny that transphobes never bring up trans men, only trans women. It's almost like it comes from a place of insecurity in their own masculinity.

Lulu

There's also people who regret getting plastic surgery, boob jobs, butt implants, etc. I'd be willing to bet that the number of people who regret getting gender-affirming care is much lower than regret after other kinds of cosmetic plastic surgery. Bottom line, it's been proven that the vast majority of trans people are happier after they transitioned. These surgeries are life-saving. And doctors are not 'rushing' to push surgery or hormones on young people. There's many steps, like therapy first, before doctors turn to medicine for gender dysphoria, especially for young people. There's not a conspiracy of doctors who want to force little boys to be girls, what would that accomplish? Also maybe you should learn more about gender, because the choice to transition has nothing to do with sexuality. Trans women don't all transition because they're attracted to men.

Animals in Motion

Okay, so you're willing to bet on that. A lot of people aren't. Don't you think a person in their pre teens or teenage years, an age we know people to be the most impressionable, trying to break away from parents etc, are likely to make a stupid decision they'll regret later?

AKorgar

If kids need healthcare they need healthcare, any kind of moralizing or naturalistic fallacy about turning them into "patients" is totally irrelevant

AKorgar

I guess we have to conclude that medical capitalism is... bad?!?

AKorgar

The reason why people are shady on "skepticism" about trans healthcare for minors is because it's none of their fucking ignorant, uneducated, uninvolved asses' business. Since when do people express skepticism about other peoples healthcare choices and get taken seriously? Fuck. Off.

AKorgar

"Won't someone think of the womenfolk" is a pretty classic manipulation tactic of reactionaries. Let's not forget that the brutal murder of Emmett Till was justified in the name of protecting women

Animals in Motion

Completely unhinged nonsense. Of course it's people's business. We don't let minors just choose elective surgery you fucking moron.

Žiga Iglič

I like to think that there were slaveowners who used the same argument. "I wouldn't support slavery if slavery opponents weren't so annoying and mean to me. My support of slavery is the result of those anti-slavery activists, I would oppose slavery if those activists would only STFU"

Josh Bobst

Wait, Will thanks skinny jeans are fashionable? I guess, if you want to look like a medieval peasant. But then you should just wear hose, and not try to make pants do something they can't.

Matelda

I'm pretty hip to woman stuff but i don't know what you're talking about.

Matelda

I think it just doesn't need to be an incessant national story, which then becomes the only story many people hear about transgender concerns. There are always people for whom treatment (of anything) doesn't work right or wasnt the right choice & nothing is perfect. But you can't devote all your energy & power to getting one type of pain a 0% chance of happening even if it means inflicting mass amounts of alternative pain. These problems are hard but we have to do our best.

Matelda

Millennials

Sam

Yeah that’s bull shit man. My nephew is a fat nerd which is totally normal for an awkward kid and he goes to the Dr six times a month because his mother has ordained him with her morgellons. Parents are doing this shit to kids everyday. A kid who has cancer or diabetes can be a patient. A kid who is literally going to commit suicide if they don’t transition, they can be a patient. A kid who is awkward and confused can just be a kid. The idea that the medical system, neurotic parents, or ten year olds are now ordained as infallible and we should socially support their decisions and wisdom is fucking weird.

Nick Grayson

Everyone here acting like what I’m describing isn’t happening/isn’t a thing worth acknowledging or being concerned about or treating me like I’m sort of ignorant bigot that hasn’t clocked adequate life experience for noticing it, being upset by it or for expressing it when it’s clear this movement is more about derision and punishment than it is about defending or protecting vulnerable people is what fucking sucks about being on “the left” right now and it’s why no one likes or trusts us anymore. I can feel how I feel and I’m not a bad person for wanting off the train that’s going in a direction I never signed up for.

AKorgar

They only ever talk about ideas as an abstract, they never have the courage to just say "Oh I think maybe slavery wasn't so bad." Like, if your shitty ideas are so great, then fucking make the case for them, otherwise admit that they're unmentionable now for good reason

Benjamin C Lucas

I'm glad Chapo covers transphobia in the Times and shows solidarity with Trans youth, and the queer community at large. I'm also glad they don't listen to their clueless dipshit fans who draw negative conclusions about trans people because they don't like their "vibes"

smooth trill player

best ep in a while. appreciate it when the rhythm is mostly just scathing analysis with interspersed humour.

Damen Irving

It’s like, does he know insulin is also made by the pharma industrial complex? Somehow there’s no skepticism to help people who need that lol

Colin Clark

I don't understand the impulse to jump to the defense of a health care system that is designed to be predatory no matter the circumstance. Reid sounds like a mess and I cringed at a lot of her allegations but the system she described sounded like the health care system I know. No one gets paid to actually listen to anybody in that system much less kids. You get paid to crank.

Colin Clark

And to this end there are about ten thousand demonic private equity controlled nursing homes, rehab centers, mental health hospitals and hospice providers actively murdering patients for profit that should be shut down before any state AG lifts a finger to investigate Reid's flimsy and unsubstantiated allegations, BUT I don't think it makes sense to reflexively defend any health care institution existing in our medical hellscape. Certainly the coding and payment systems in American hellcare will always incentivize more unnecessary procedures drugs and treatments at the expense of less vital necessary care, especially if the latter is at all labor intensive

Bilbo

Try to stay calm Nick, we here at Chapo know government transing squads have been seen going into posters homes to trans them against their will, but we will fight for your release. No matter how long it takes, we will save you from being forced to read statements in critical support of Warhammer 40k and Blahaj against your will from inside the great PNW transfemme polycule compound. Just be brave. <3

Toby

Boom, headshot.

Nick Grayson

I don’t understand a word of this but I know I find it insufferably annoying and so do most people

Poppy Chulo

Where's David Attenborough when you need him? Here we see a chapo commenter of the subspecies Twitteronica conjuring up new phantom enemies to fight with in their perpetual quest for fresh outrage.

Axel H.

Yeah, that seems to happen a lot with the "dirtbag left", the "Red Scare effect". There seem to be many on the left that think anything trans is "lib shit" and then they just end up spouting the same crap the anti-woke right does. The left barely exists as it is, so it's disappointing when left-wing outlets start moving right. There's gonna be nothing left...

Nick Grayson

Like am I supposed to feel intellectually inferior? Or insecure? Or insulted? Or like I need to fight for your acceptance? What kind of person even understands and relates to sentiment conveyed this way? This isn’t smart or clever or biting or relevant it’s just endless obfuscation to avoid confronting the aspects of this movement that keeps losing more and more people and has no confidence to it whatsoever.

Axel H.

Go listen to Red Scare, loser.

Nick Grayson

I *do* listen to Red Scare! Chapo is friends with them and Cum Town. Yet you’re financially supporting them. Aren’t you as bad or worse than me by that logic?

etienne

what do we make of those studies that show that SRS has a microscopic regret rate?

T

Chapo deserves so much credit for supporting trans ppl. Especially Will, but Matt and Felix too.

Adrienne Suydam

If the chromosomes are still XY, that’s a guy.

Martin

Chapos bout to get their status back baby

Axel H.

Thanks Professor.

Jö

Love Jacob. Really nice young man.

Gulb

You definitely don't have two friends who to detransition post-surgery because they're "just gay". This is just a story you made up. You anti-trans bigots are a bunch of psychos obsessed with other people's genitals.

Des Mosome

My dear, there is a difference between mind and body.

DaveBMadeIT

The left may never recover from the loss of comrade Fidance.

cosmia

lol @ transphobes paying 5 smackeroos a month to a pro-trans podcast to leave epic comments on their patreon. somehow even sadder than twitter blue users. no wonder you don't respect trans people if you don't respect yourselves

cosmia

you know you're a good person when you feel compelled to affirm it to everyone else around you

Lexe

Actually, puberty blockers can cause severe, debilitating, lifelong damage to a minority of patients who take them. This has been long known, because of the kids who've taken them for precocious puberty.

Lexe

When you consider the number of people who take insulin, not because they have type 1 diabetes, but because of diet, maybe there should be a bit of skepticism towards the insulin Market, that's grown by Leaps and Bounds over the last few decades.

leah

completely insane seeing people try to pull the reasonable terf who just has a few questions in this comment section of all places. you are all the same fucking person!!!

Violet

There have been clear studies demonstrating that SRS has a tiny regret rate and that the primary causes of detransition are environmental factors, particularly transphobia. If your friends are even real (which I doubt, given your obvious hostility to anyone introducing reality into the discussion - not sure why we're getting sealioning terfs here, but we see you), then they represent a very small minority within a very small minority and they don't justify forcing kids to go through the hell of the wrong puberty. As it is, best practices do not permit bottom surgery before 18 and only permit top surgery in extreme cases after 16. That is reality, despite the absolutely delusional claims made by right-wing grifters. The trans healthcare system is hardly perfect, but the idea that it is somehow going too far is an idea that is unsubstantiated to any reasonable degree. Worse, it's a position that advocates for social murder, because _not_ having access to treatment absolutely will result in dead kids.

Violet

Reid's claims have been totally debunked by actual journalists, Colin. You're just being an easy mark. Saying "oh but these claims COULD be true" is just "We just made Quentin up and that's okay" nonsense. Lexe: So long as they aren't used for an extended period and proper precautions are taken, they are safe. --- Lets make this clear, since we're getting a bunch of soft TERFism here: Not treating gender dysphoria seriously results in deaths. Supporting that position is supporting social murder. No one is asking a doctor to put a ten year old on puberty blockers after one thirty minute appointment. Therapy and social transition are supposed to precede that specifically because no one is holding the asserted position that ten year olds are always right. This is the truth of all TERF/GC positions: they are based on making insane claims based on bad evidence and screaming them so loud that lazy journalists and propagandists repeat their lies. Sam, if you're actually a trained medical professional, you still have received zero training in treating trans patients, much less pediatric trans patients. Perhaps instead of rambling on about things you know nothing about, you should defer to your _actually trained_ counterparts.

Violet

Buddy, the industrial interest of treating trans folks is tiny compared to the use of estradiol in birth control... Oh wait, you're just being a typical "muh mental health isn't real" twit. Fuck's sake. Insufferable goddamn busybody.

Violet

But you are an ignorant bigot pushing childish, ignorant nonsense and endangering us. Maybe instead of crying about how mean people are to you, you could just shut the fuck up and stop having shit opinions. For those of you who need an explanation, Nick is being a little baby crying about being called out for his shitty little opinion and complaining that because he feels socially uncomfortable with the things he's made up to get angry at he's obviously a victim. Bilbo strung together a series of memes that trans people tend to use among ourselves (Blahaj, WH40K, PNW transfemme polycule, forced transitioning, etc) to make fun of him.

Des Mosome

Birth control is social control, too!

Violet

Fuck off.

Violet

So many reactionaries in the comments. I'd be surprised, but GC/TERFism do seem to have a certain appeal to self-important contrarians who know absolutely nothing about anything, I guess, and you'll find those fucks everywhere.

John Cook

Mail Jacob a mic and make him plug 4. He's got "the stuff"

Violet

Right, so you're just an obnoxious dickhead looking to pick stupid fights for stupid reasons. Piss up a rope.

Des Mosome

Strictly orthodox anti-psychiatry, I’m afraid. There remains a separation between mind and body.

Violet

Boring. Stop having shit opinions. Definitely stop injecting your shit opinions into other people's lives.

Nick Grayson

What do you think this accomplishes? Because it emphatically isn’t a majoritarian coalition to your agenda.

Violet

It accomplishes calling a piece of shit a piece of shit. While you play crybaby, your shitty opinions feed the storm of reactionary fuckheads who've recently stopped being shy about calling for genocide against me. I don't expect the least bit of decency from you, so I don't _care_ about your "stop being mean or I'll become even more reactionary" horseshit. I just want your hateful ass to feel a little bit of the pain that you and yours cause to me and mine.

Nick Grayson

The only thing feeding the storm of reactionary fuck heads is people like you telling people like me who are saying “if you want me to be on board, stop the trend of harassing biological women that have completely reasonable dissenting opinions” that even articulating this sentiment is tantamount to fascism and violence and you’re not going to be able to use this tactic forever. You’re going to have to actually be nice to people and meet them/respect them where they’re at.

Violet

No one is harassing biological women over completely reasonable dissenting opinions. A bunch of reactionary scum are getting shouted at for being reactionaries and harming us. Simple as. There is nothing reasonable about the monstering of transwomen. There is nothing reasonable about constantly lying to deny us healthcare. There is nothing reasonable about the TERF position. It is unreasonable and unserious. No one is going to be nice to you for being a piece of shit, Nick.

T

Any relation to Levi Suydam?

Nick Grayson

Has it ever occurred to you that maybe *you’re* the reactionaries harming people now?

Violet

No. Because it's the latest in a set of transcendently stupid positions based on complete misrepresentation and outright lies. It's the same classic abuser behavior than your clique loves most of all: abusing people and then insisting that the real abusers are the people fighting back against your fucking abuse. The outright fascists are your fellow travelers. The people who are calling for genocide are your allies. Cope, seethe, mald, and most importantly: shut the fuck up.

w

Jacob touched on this but I went to a pretty expensive and somewhat prestigious school. Not Ivy League but not a state school either. This was pre Covid but it was after all these dumbass columns had started. It is absolutely not hostile to conservatives. Economics and business classes are outright conservative propaganda and basically the only time I saw pushback against “conservative ideals” was when they were racist or transphobic. Certainly many more students were liberals or leftists but it wasn’t this anti conservative environment they all describe. I think it just all comes back to the thing where conservatives are always looking for a chance to be the victim.

J.P. McD.

Per Instagram stories, Felix messed up his foot a week or so ago. So all this talk about his head being out of the game, being given a timeout bc of negative feedback, etc. are probably wrong. He’ll be back the same as ever and some of you will cry about it

Danny

👑👑👑👑

Logan

Matt giving away the game there at the end

Dan

2:43- 3:59 Qanon has become the unified field theory of all Right-wing conspiracy theories, but also all crank theories that strain credulity. Two years ago, I went to get a printer ink jet cartridge refilled, and the owner of the ink and toner place was a Qanon guy. He handed me un-solicited Qanon leaflets after concluding our transaction. The interesting thing is that his Qanon literature made no mention of Pizza Gate tropes, the Clintons, arrests, adrenochrome... his Qanon literature was all " End the Fed" Gold Standard rhetoric, with a touch of Great Reset. On another occasion, some Qanon protesters were downtown calling for the arrest of our Prime Minister, but their list of grievances and picket signs also included Chemtrails. Qanon has engulfed every other spurious folk belief, and that is its strength.

Logan

I like your name. It sounds very transexual

Logan

Nick can't support Sanders until his supporters stop posting "🐍🐍🐍"

etienne

please tell me this is Alberta

Des Mosome

Brah, all good. Big feelings aside, trans right peddlers haven’t addressed (from what I can tell) the very obvious mind/body problem. It’s insoluable, but yet technology is used to elide the contradiction. And because medicine is more than just a molecule down the cake hole an industry develops when a new market opens up. What is a fundamental distinction/problem becomes an employment/production opportunity.

Violet

That's a lot of words to say 'fuck you, I got mine'. The answer to your inane insinuations is that significant amounts of data prove that medical transition correlates to significant improvements the lives of trans people. So no matter how much you want to invent a spoopy ebil corporate conspiracy to provide trans people with effective care, you still have no feasible or worthwhile alternative.

Dan

Yuppers. The Qanon guys were (Canadian) Yellow Vest-ers, but with "Where we go one..." on the back of their vests, in front of Calgary city hall. The Qanon inkjet place is in Calgary as well.

Des Mosome

No insinuation intended, I am literally saying there is an alternative.

Violet

Given that the alternative you present appears to be just torturing trans people so that you get to feel like you stuck one to the corporate actors, I'm gonna go with 'fuck you'. Unless I'm misunderstanding you and you just mean that we need to disassemble capitalism, in which case, sure, but also not really an achievable end in the near future. Abd besides, you're still gonna have trans people under socialism, and we'll still need the same meds.

Des Mosome

Reflects Matt’s argument, in a way. The decay of academia means that fundamental problems can only be solved by statistical analyses of cohorts of patients. It’s because the difference between two therapies was below a p-value of 0.05 that any other consideration for the trans contradiction other than scientism is now ‘torture.’

Violet

No, you insufferable worm, it's fucking torture because transition is the best thing that ever happened to most of us. If you force us to detransition, we will die, either in fighting back or of despair. Kids will die because your worthless sensitivities require them to remain trapped in bodies that feel like prisons. No amount of your pretending to know best because you want to feel special will change that fact. Get over yourself. You're not offering an alternative, you're just being a sack of dogshit.

Des Mosome

I thinks there’s some ableism in there. I haven’t seen much forced de-transition. Feelings are (in the general sense) perceptions and there are always alternatives.

Poppy Chulo

Bigot? What the fuck are you talking about? Why is he a bigot and what genocide? You get off on playing a victim and lashing out at imaginary enemies. Fuck you.

Poppy Chulo

You're just a nasty cunt honestly. What has he said that you find ao the offensive?

lake

There are some transphobic people in this comments section.

AKorgar

"We don't let minors just choose elective surgery you fucking moron." Yeah, and they don't just let trans kids choose it either, there's a very long and difficult process that they have to go through to get these procedures done and medical professionals are involved at every step of the way. Choke yourself, you fucking bigot

Axel H.

Yeah it’s pretty hilarious to see them do the exact “Russian reversal” thing that the right always does: the people fighting racism are the real racists, the anti-fascists are the real fascists, those calling out reactionaries are the true reactionaries 🙄 No, you don’t get to obfuscate with that shit, you insufferable concern troll.

Nick Grayson

I donated a cumulative $5400 to both sanders campaigns, stood in a middle school gymnasium for 4 hours to vote for him, phonebanked, canvassed, traveled to other states to canvass and volunteered as an Iowa caucus precinct captain. What did YOU do for those campaigns?

Axel H.

It is interesting to me that trans issues are the one thing that can still get leftists at each other's throats. I guess in some sense that's encouraging, that this is one of the only things that can. But it's also a bit disappointing. The subreddit post for this episode was actually locked because of all the vitriol over the trans stuff (I've been listening and commenting on Chapo for a while, so this doesn't happen often).

Violet

There's no ableism in there - you're just talking out of your ass. If you were paying attention to the states, you'd see multiple bills doing exactly that. You just aren't because you have no fucking skin in this. It's just a game to you.

Violet

Fuck you too, Harry. Just yesterday one of Nick's fellow travelers got up on a stage at CPAC and declared that "transgenderism must be eradicated from public life entirely". He and the disingenuous worms who support him have insisted that they just mean the idea of being transgender, but that requires denying us all access to public spaces. That's a call for genocide, you cretin. The policies being passed in the states are intended to deny us the ability to transition in the first place, which will kill many of us. That's genocidal behavior, you cretin. His entire concern-troll position is that the people who monster trans women at every turn in order to justify playing the victim are the real victims here. He's just another enabler of a small cult of bigots hiding behind a pathetic crybullying declaration that if you call them out for their bullshit, that's the real bigotry. Fuck them and fuck you, too.

Bilbo

Yup! There is actually quite a bit of transphobia on the left. I think it takes several forms. I can note three trends in particular that ive noticed: 1. Old School terf/swerf ML paternalism - "trans existence is modern bourgeois excess and therefore invalid/should be resisted." This in spite of the fact that trans people and various forms of "third gender" have existed in the historical record all across the the world in various cultures, including many pre capitalist, non western, and even pre agrarian ones. (North American indigenous two spirits, spanish documentation of the Iriquois in 1711 describing transmasculine and tranfem tribal roles, Tale of Two Brothers 1194 BC describing early attempt at transition surgery in Egypt, Nuba peoples of Sudan indigenous third gender category, muxhe gender role common in pre colombian central america, Edo period Japan and its role for both transmasc and transfemme people in court life, theatre, and the sex industry, Thai Buddhist concept of trans existence withthin buddhist concept of reincarnation (makes a ton of sense if you think about it), and finally the transfemme gods Cybele and Attis worshipped in pre christian greece.) -Just to list some of the examples. 2. Post imperial liberal terfism - Your JK Rowling stuff based out of the UK. The rigid sex dichotomy coming out of the industrial revolution and empire. Think the stuffy victorian notions of men as worker/providers, women as effette and in need of protection (from the other). Also very paternalistic and patriarchical. Its not a mistake that many of the suffragettes moonlit as fascists down the line. Lots of sex essentialization and eugenic ideas of social manipulation based on said essentialization. 3. Finally what we see in the comments here and parts of the Chapo fanbase generally - Good old fashioned dirtbag left boys club manchild immaturity - I think for a segment of the male fanbase the funny "dirtbag left" has existed purely as an entertainment vehicle that was never actually tied to any deeper moral or philisophical underpinnings to the greater left project. (not that it should be, as Matt has pointed out many times, log off and do politics outside of podcasts and media consumption). I think for many listeners its one thing to ask them to laugh at the New York Times and media writers, but to ask them to sympathize with a group they do not understand and feel is getting special treatment is a bridge too far, thus a reactionary reaction within the fanbase. Gamer shit. I am glad that the Chapo hosts are on the right side of all this. Matt is too smart for terf nonesense, Will is an Ally, and Felix is family so no chance he is going Fash. Redscare is going weird arthoe tradcath fash, and much of the dirtbag left has gone down the pseuds rabbit hole of going anti trans to appear edgy and contrarian, which is just the same grift as Bari Weiss in the end. Anyway thats all.

Axel H.

Thanks for the summary. I was drawn to the "dirtbag left" after I became disenchanted with "libs" in 2016 (namely, the preoccupation with "Russiagate"). I admit that it was refreshing to find a wing of the left that wasn't obsessed with identity politics and being inoffensive. But that didn't mean I was ever opposed to LGBT issues (I am a gay man after all). I just was very aware of the fact that libs seemed to hyperfocus on identity to distract from class issues and obsess with using the "correct language" without much substance. So I continue to listen to Chapo and TrueAnon and Citations Needed. But when I looked into other "dirtbag left" outlets, like Red Scare, I saw that they were basically just sounding a lot like alt/new right. Not completely in step with the Trumpist/populist right, but basically saying the same anti-vax, anti-trans, pro-trad/religious rhetoric I hear from the right all the time. And I became aware that there is a slippery slope, "horseshoe effect" that leads from dirtbag left to alt right, and trans issues seem to be one way that happens.

Poppy Chulo

Nah fuck you twice. You're a hysterical scumbag who can't tell who is who. "Fellow traveller"? How so? What did he say that was so egregious for you to be so nasty?

Violet

I'm so sorry for being NaStY to the poor bigot. Oh woe is me, how could I be such a NaStY CuNt?! Read further up the fucking thread and then go drown in a lake of rancid shit.

Poppy Chulo

That's just heterosexual with extra steps.

Poppy Chulo

I've been all over this comment section. Where is the transphobia?

Chris Ryan

Just goes to show you that Canada is the same as the USA.

Nick Grayson

Yeah I pay to listen to Chapo trap house because people at CPAC are my “fellow travelers.” 🙄

Chris Ryan

I don’t think those categories are all-encompassing, accurate though they seem to be. I’m not saying this is me, by the way, but I know for a fact that a growing number of leftists are averse to giving any credence at all to the importance of any white liberal’s identity. So in that case, the pushback that certain trans people feel from the left has nothing to do with their gender, per se, as the actual left takes issue with people of all genders who are actively complicit in the ongoing destruction of human society.

Nick Grayson

I don’t think trans people should be eliminated from public life. Just stop being such dicks to women and girls who life is hard enough for as is.

etienne

except Canada runs as an appointed bureaucracy so it's quite hard for QAnon to actually go to power. not impossible but you have a lot more hurdles to get into a party structure then get into some random legislation where all you get to do is talk talk

Violet

Again: it is bigots who use their sex as a weapon against trans people you are defending. They stand hand in hand with the freaks at CPAC. If you defend them, you do too! Luckily, you can easily stop having shit opinions, Nick. You just have to stop using crybully tactics to defend bigots! The internet mob can, at times, misdirect its rage. That's true. However, you're just using standard fucking TERF rhetoric and respectability politics to avoid taking responsibility for the people you are enabling. The Posy Parkers and Julie Bindels of the world are monsters and deserve total public condemnation, just like all other bigots.

lake

Suck my girl dick

th

this is, no joke, real. also, in parallel to the democrats thinking they need to back off of issues because of the left’s inflammatory rhetoric, it took half the war and hundreds of thousands of lives for republicans like Lincoln to realize that the southern slaveholders had been lying to them about all that rhetoric nonsense.

Breakaway

He’s literally not het. But I agree that I’d like to hear about these issues from a trans guest.

Zarathushtra

I thought the subreddit was banned, is there a new one?

Axel H.

BlackWolfFeed is the one I was referring to.

Violet

You're the bigot, Harry.

Poppy Chulo

I haven't said anything remotely transphobic I'm just not buying into the hysteria.

Poppy Chulo

I've read the whole thread and you are absolutely a needlessly hostile piece of human garbage. At no point have you shown any ability to distinguish nuanced opinions from the boogeymen in your fantasy world.

Jö

Hayley you’re so cute what do I have to do 🥺

Mauve_Avenger

Nick, are you vying for most tedious Chapo Patreon poster? It's a tough feat but you're going strong 👍

Des Mosome

I just meant that we should leave the worms out of it.

Lcfitz

Damn I still like npr

VAN Fan

Fuck you

VAN Fan

Nick gayson

Dies Irae63

Maybe a secondary (bacterial) infection? Opportunistic little fuckers, bacteria.

Lcfitz

National public radio

Adam Rothstein

my niece is trans and she is not at all confused. she is very clear she is a girl. even if you insist on being patronizing and disbelieving trans kids, the risks of invalidating their identities far outweigh any perceived risks of listening to them (depression at best, suicide at worst.) As for your point about upper middle class, they are talking about the NYT coverage. Who do you think reads the NYT? Take a look at their ads and ask yourself who their target demo is.

Adam Rothstein

Great episode, thanks! would you consider unlocking? my niece is trans and my sister has been disturbed by the recent nyt pieces. i would love to share it with her — i think the discussion helps demystify and contextualize the present moment.

saysthemachine

for every one of these stories there are several of teens that have their lives and bodies irreparably changed by hormone therapy and depression meds. i’m not saying there are no scenarios where a young person transitioning is an acceptable outcome. there is no reason why we should defer all of our reasoning abilities to the medical industrial complex. the “left” has a huge problem with this. And most people that argue from this perspective, like yourself, don’t have kids of their own.

Axel H.

Dick Gayson

etienne

driving in the northeast appalachians is brutal because all you can get on the radio is the clear channel alleged top 40 radio that actually only play ads, the fox sports, npr, and if you're lucky preacher radio, but really NPR always comes in and it ultimately makes you want to drive off a cliff

Zach Armstrong

Respect to Chapo for standing up to all this transphobic garbage.

Violet

No, Harry, you're just a piece of shit. It's transparently evident that you're here to play the typical shithead game of pretending what is going on around us isn't so you can stick your empty head in the sand and insist everything is fine. Fuck off back to the graveyard you sleep in, ghoul.

dingbat44

Just pay for your nieces subscription you cheap bitch.

Violet

You're a liar. The data is clear that the claim you are making is totally false in the instance of HRT. Further, treating SSRIs and HRT as the same thing is purposefully conflating unrelated things. SSRIs have a decent, but not great, success rate at decreasing symptoms of depression. HRT has a massive success rate at treating dysphoria. That is what the science says and you're puking up garbage when you pretend otherwise. You are just another moron clinging to conspiracy theories in order to control things in the world that you don't like. Keep your delusions to your fucking self.

Violet

I wish you'd leave yourself out of this conversation, but unfortunately, you've chosen to inflict your stupidity on the rest of us.

Violet

You're actively defending transphobia elsewhere. You also have the correct name for that response. The first fact makes you deserve it, the second fact makes it twice as fun. You can always just shut up. It's easy. You just don't share the dumbass thoughts you think are interesting and then no one calls you out over the fact that those thoughts are fucking stupid.

saysthemachine

in 10 years there are going to be lots of enablers with egg on their face. I interface with this daily. with kids who are being pointed in this direction by adults who believe they’re well meaning, by a culture that is full of lazy pseudo “science” boosters without the appetite, much less the patience, to truly help these kids. sure, the process of medical transition has a barrier to entry, but it takes much less than getting to that point to cause a huge amount of harm, especially to the relationships of lower income families. you guys are all obsessed with trying to seem righteous thinking you’re the only ones, when you don’t have the first thing you need to help any of those kids. Kids have to grapple with so much now, and lots of them need help. but only 1/1000 of them should be told that their issue might be they were born the wrong sex, or “affirmed” when they suggest there is something wrong with the body they were born with. and that’s not what’s happening now, and anyone with a young kid knows that.

lake

There’s lots of transphobia here. One really obvious example is someone who said “if the chromosomes are xy that’s a guy.”

Des Mosome

Everyone is entitled to my opinion.

Lcfitz

The one in NC is pretty good 🤷🏼‍♀️

Lalo

casey

princeton is actually rather conservative as far as your standard liberal colleges go. unpleasant place.

etienne

pretty hypocritical of this guy talking shit about big pharma right after undergoing a lobotomy

Daniel Doran

what is "trans" kids I only know trans kids

Max Beta

Hey dum dum, are you going to question them for "mimicking big pharma" on contraceptives & abortion rights next? Very clown.

Max Beta

The thing I can say about this topic, is that if someone has never been in the inner circle of a child with gender dysphoria, they don't know a fucking thing about it.

jaccuse

thought the preview thumbnail was the cover of drukqs

Max Beta

What do you think the alternative to gender affirming care is? It's not "just being happy & chill". It's antidepressants, antipsychotics & stays in the psych ward. Things that are a bit more profitable than estrogen or testosterone. Telling someone with dysphoria (look up the definition of that) that they don't have it is as smart a take as telling someone with clinical depression to take nature walks.

Des Mosome

Again, with the scientism. I refuse to read a dictionary. You citing a science that supports a science formerly begs the question. And again, quoting spot prices on molecules. Price shows the ‘efficiency’ of a given good/service at a given time/place and can’t be used to make a judgement about values (pun!). You chose ‘walking in parks’ as tongue in cheek, but it is at least not the trodden path (pun!) of Pharma-industry taken by trans rights peddlers.

Max Beta

Do you ever talk in a way that anyone understands what the fuck you're saying? Nevermind, I'm not going to do a back & forth with someone who thinks life is just a series of theoretical concepts.

Des Mosome

Please don’t go. It’s just you and me here.

Lulu

Exactly. First off, they aren't doing surgery on 12 year olds. They first go to therapy and reversible drugs like puberty blockers. Kids aren't unilaterally demanding surgery, and their doctors have to do it. It's a discussion between parents, the kid, and the doctors- it should be left at that. Doctors very rarely do surgery on kids younger than like 17. Doctors should be allowed to make decisions without idiotic, ignorant transphobes in gov't interfering.

Hannah Mosman

No but skinny jeans are what conservative men wear now

Sam Tung

Really good ep

Dustice

what other marginalized groups would you like us to suppress even further, nick

Michelle

A friend’s daughter was basically woman shaped at age 9. She was put on blockers and stalled full puberty for a few years. As you can imagine, she has lots of issues she’s trying to deal with right now.

Tim O'

Yeah he's tripping, his jeans are too tight

etienne

am i still allowed to wear levis 513 or do I need to get into the market for jncos

Max Beta

Hate to tell you Nick, but the government clamping down on what people can and can't do, how they can exist, how they can parent, isn't very leftist at all. 99% of trans people just want to live their lives, just exist and go about their day. Citing a few people in a vast group is as dumb as watching Stephen Crowder videos and concluding that all college kids are stupid, or watching videos from racist ass accounts and thinking all black people do the knockout game. You're concerns are not "completely reasonable". Feeling weird or not understanding something isn't cause to clamp down on people.

Max Beta

Everyone is open to the debate on sports. Aside from actual children playing sports, everyone from the NCAA to the Olympics has regulations for trans athletes, that they tweak and adjust to get it right. That's a discussion. Can we make it illegal for people to get estrogen? Can we make it illegal for teachers/co-workers to use anything other than birth names/pronouns? isn't a discussion.

Nick Grayson

I don’t know what kind of person any of these comments think I am but projecting at least 50 completely bad faith assumptions on to somebody who correctly pointed that it’s pretty weird and counterintuitive that some people that want to be seen as women have engineered a socially acceptable way to publicly hate women is a really shortsighted way to make them sympathetic to your cause. You could just acknowledge that it’s lame when people do that and decide that should be the line that nobody claiming to be part of the cause crosses.

Max Beta

Some biological women feel uncomfortable sharing a locker room with a lesbian, but we would never give credence to that view would we? No, we're too evolved for that. So discomfort of some isn't exactly the barometer is it.

Nick Grayson

I’d certainly like to know more about what makes them uncomfortable about it and talk to them rather than engineer an online mob to ruin their life socially and professionally, which is the knee jerk response I see all the time now for even the most tepid or gratuitously caveated dissenting perspective.

justdave

Bad puns, it's how eye roll (but seriously you and that kh dude talking about sports should be forced to eat charcoal briquettes)

Des Mosome

A friend! I don’t know what that means, but doesn’t sound like an own?

Hannah Mosman

No fr look at George Santos, Andrew Tate, and John Tory…there are more I can’t think at the moment but it’s already happening—all wear TIGHT pants.

Hannah Mosman

513s are borderline lol. Go for the jncos

Max Beta

I don't know man, I'm a feminist and I care about trans people not being marginalized. It's bad because it's bad. It's a very heated thing. It's not like the TERF twitter accounts that do nothing by post horrible, horrible shit all day are doing anything to win anyone to their cause. If you really want to see hate, seek those out. I don't know if you've noticed, but the window for polite discussions is closing kinda quickly, as minor trans progress has been countered by a tidal wave of anti-trans shit, engineered by the Chris Ruffo/Matt Walsh type worst people in the world. So, sorry we have to be vocal and forceful in stopping the crush from happening? It's very real for some of us or for the people we care about. It's not a discussion about UBI or some shit like that, and it's gotten a lot more serious than wanting to play on a field hockey team.

Nick Grayson

Be that as it may there’s a wide spectrum of dissenting opinion and I see the exact same scale of vitriol deployed against it every time and now the social pressure feels like I’m supposed to tacitly accept it or join on the dog pile to still be a “progressive” or “leftist” but it went too far for me personally so I’m trying to inform people as politely as possible that there is a line and I feel it’s been crossed enough times. In any case thanks for being the first person on here to engage with this in good faith, Max.

Arid

I graduated from Minnesota in 2020, and you're right about these things mostly preoccupying elite places. We had a couple of campus activist groups, but nothing huge. And as an engineering student I had way too much shit to do to worry about taking drammatic stands on stuff. There were some anti-trump marches, and defacing of the campus conservatives' "build the wall" mural, but that's not "woke policing" or whatever people are whining about I work at Cornell now and they've started doing the land acknowledgement shit, which I think is really funny because it's not like they're actually giving any land back! Just whining about it

Dan

Alberta is the most American Canadian province.