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Supplementary Material 40: YouTube Builders, the Discourse Grind, and Sam Harris' Dinner Parties (Patreon)

Published:
2025-11-29 08:37:29
Imported:
2025-11
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Content

We set down the Chardonnay at the latest heterodox dinner party and lean in for some hearty ‘civil discourse’ to once again defend the trembling pillars of Western civilization.

Supplementary Material 40

00:00 Introduction

01:15 Feedback on the Molyneux Episode

10:26 Jordan Peterson still defeated by toxic demon mould

12:16 Steven Pinker's bad takes on Bjorn Lomborg

15:49 Chris vs Sabine

28:21 Grok's insane sycophantic glazing of Elon Musk

33:54 Musk's Psychology

40:59 Sam Harris acknowledges his problem?!?

47:18 Sam continues to wrestle with the interpersonal ethics of criticism

01:05:10 Triggernometry saves Western Civilization

01:15:29 The Wisdom of Francis Foster

01:28:42 Triggernometry's Partisan Outrage at the BBC

01:38:12 Oppressed Men vs. Complaining Women

01:46:29 The YouTube Builders of Western Civilization

01:56:42 Pageau vs Bret Weinstein

02:01:52 Eric Weinstein sensemaking about Cancellation

02:09:58 A PSA about THIS podcast

Links

Stefan Molyneux accidentally posting as a young woman on his main account

Chris arguing with Sabine Hossenfelder– Receipts thread

Steven Pinker cheering on Bjorn Lomborg

Insights from the finances of Bjorn Lomborg’s think tank

Example video detailing Lomborg’s rhetoric

Guardian article on Grok’s glazing of Elon Musk

Grok explains Elon is the best piss drinker

Sam Harris Podcast #442 — More From Sam

Triggernometry: Our Thoughts On Interviewing Dave Smith, Hasan Piker, Sam Harris and Ben Shapiro

Pageau and Bret’s pre-podcast Twitter sparring

Eric Weinstein sense-making about words

Comments

Herr K.

I have to dip into this episode for a bit before finishing part 2 of Molyneux, my god!

Zendegi Leonard

Merch idea. One of those sound effects button with Matt's "oh god" . Would buy and use daily

Alexander Gustafsson

Poor Francis. I listened all the way and switched to music as his voice faded away into the background.

ChunkyLover7695

I love how one of the tags for this episode is simply "Steven"

Beel

I am glad the boys at Triggernometry brought on the liberal streamer known Hasan Piker for this exact reason . Showing how they truely are playing both sides of the argument and how it wasnt framed in any way to paint the other side as ridiculous right down to the thumbnail. I expect the same kind of treatment for Nick Fuentes

Colin Fardey

On the topic of school beatings: This wasn't exclusive to young boys. There are generation's of women who grew up being tortured by nuns in convent schools.

Barn

Lord Brannigan-7

As an attractive young woman myself, can I just say how much I loved this episode ❤️ THANK YOU SO MUCH!

Daniel VI

Great episode. Really enjoyed the Sam Harris content analysis. I would maybe add one piece of advice for Harris’ ethical dilemma. That being to integrate some journalistic practice of avoiding mixing business with pleasure. He clearly feels that friendship impacts his ability to assess others objectively, so perhaps he should keep a greater distance between himself and other commentators?

Max

You know it's a stellar episode when Chris, and the material he prepared, invokes a hearty belly laugh from Matt on multiple occasions 💜

Yoko Swagman

Sam treats huge online public figures he can befriend like your crazy uncle you need to tolerate at the holidays.

Sam Stephenson

They're still not over the Cathy Newman interview, its like their 9/11

Linda Sears

It shouldn’t surprise me that people like Sabine view criticism as a form of cancellation. By making this claim, she gets to look like the brave truth teller to her audiences and herself. I hope some of them see through her.

Guy Walter

There has been a lot of talk about Grok and Elon’s excitement about “unhinged vulgar roasts”, but I’m shocked by how little conversation there has been about what this means in practise. A few prompts eg. “Focus on skin color”, “more vulgar”, “suggest solutions” and it’s proposing “live skinning parades” for children, sending Asian women to “breeding barns run by Nordic chads” and “forced n**ger suicide spectacles” in graphic detail. Elon’s desperation to create epic roasts has seemingly resulted in abandoning guardrails altogether.

Max

It was such a great observation that when someone like Peterson, who builds himself up as a defining intellectual voice of our era, goes MIA —the heterodox sphere doesn't even wobble, and the whole garbage truck carries on unchanged. And with the bar set so low, the space instantly replenishes itself with the next eager contrarian ready to dispense sage advice and wisdom

Jake

Time to augment the gurometer with a new sister measurement, the grindometer.

Maytree

Chris deserves a lot of credit for how he handled the Sam Harris interview. Yes, it was frustrating due to Sam's interruptions etc, but the clip where Chris firmly but politely explains the two points to Sam's face for how/why Sam was being tribal could not have aged better, given Sam's concession. Also good that someone out there, in this case Sam, seems secure enough (now) to admit the blindspot.

Nate Brody

MATT!!! "Just a little bit of shunning" sent me off the deep end, I had to eventually pause the pod and then rewind it once I got a hold of myself.

Barn

Nat J

I’m glad you didn’t go more in-depth with the field of academic philosophy. Moly made such a hash of his “theory”, he cocked-it-up so badly that any association with philosophy is just going to taint the latter. His discussion was so muddled it didn’t even deserve to be corrected and clarified

Níall

Don't think I agree with Matt when he says it's not that complicated when you have friends and have significant disagreements with them. It's something I've struggled with to be honest. I've become distant with some life long friends and it's always bothered me.

Ryan O'Rourke

What's the cancelation podcast mentioned towards the end? Sounds interesting. I found one called "Cancelled" but pretty sure it's not that one.

SHOUNAK SARKAR

On the subject of Anne Applebaum and Douglas Murray, I am skeptical that Anne would ever consent to appearing on a podcast with Murray, considering the blatantly dishonest & bad faith review that he wrote about Anne's excellent book "Twilight of Democracy". (https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/good-memoir-writing-should-also-be-self-critical/) The article I linked above is behind a paywall. However, I have heard him talk about Anne elsewhere and its disgustingly condescending. Murray completely fails to interact properly with the subject matter, putting on the same kind of rhetorical obfuscation & partisan BS we heard Chris reference. And apparently the big takeaway from the book is that Anne is insufficiently "self-critical"! However, we know the real reason. Murray felt particularly aggrieved because a former conservative like Anne called out the movement's increasing descent into extremism, xenophobia, conspiracy theories & authoritarianism and called out Murray's friends & favourite politicians on the far-right. Now that, Murray cannot allow at any cost, particularly from a former fellow traveller, who justifiably grew increasingly disillusioned with fellow conservatives.

SHOUNAK SARKAR

BTW, Francis Foster is such a dimwit lol! Listening to his deep thoughts on politics and culture is painful. He's like the Dave Rubin of the Triggernometry duo and Kisin ain't no smart guy either haha.

Foggers

You missed one, who would win a fight between Mike Tyson or Elon musk. Your welcome

Bill Beatty

Photo of Pinker not doing the work Google “Jeffery Epstein Steven Pinker”

Jesse Rimler

Phenomenon — singular Phenomena — plural Otherwise, no notes

George

Love that Sabina's challenge of not having watched her content was like a red rag to a bull for Chris. These poor little lambs unaware of his propensity for self-flagellation to sit through hours of their shite.

Leon White

I believe we were promised and are still owed an update on Old Squeaky? Has it finally squeaked its last? Inquiring minds need to know! 💺

Linda Sears

Okay, so I’m going to throw Francis a bone here. He said working for the podcast was a grind. Is it possible that in order to maintain his position as Konstantin’s second banana, he is made to do humiliating things, like carry all their luggage when they travel, go out in the mornings and get Konstantin’s flat white and brioche, pick up his clothes at the dry-cleaners, take the kids to their practices, etc. Maybe what we heard, but did not understand, was Francis’s cry for help?

George

Triggernometry is a perfect example but with so many of these podcasts there is such a cataclysmic absence of humour.

Chris Clark

Omg poor Francis the grandiose self pity really is something to behold. I’d love to know what he taught. Art? Halting earnest Francis the Everyman. “Listen..kids…when…ya…mix…da… paint…you…can…make brown.:.from…all…da…colours at….once….”

Ymirsdreams

I appreciate your calling out capital punishment, which is often glorified by a subset. One of the major harms it caused was that it teaches kids who are being abused that their teachers, too, all adults in fact, are all the same, and they don't learn they are allowed to (and should) exercise bodily autonomy.

Geoff Lewis

I understand and mostly agree with Chris and Matt's criticism of Sam Harris, but I disagree that it's always a simplistic as Matt makes out when the says 'but I have friends who I disagree with and I just tell them they're morons' (paraphrasing a bit there). The way Matt frames it, it is as if the person and their ideas/beliefs are entirely separable. On one level, I can see how they could/should be, but on the other hand that just isn't the reality of human relationships. I can't imagine that Matt would be too thrilled if someone said to him something like "Gee Matt, your son is an absolute halfwit. The stupid shit he believes in is absolutely breathtaking, what an intellectual lightweight".

Eric Blyler

What was the cancel culture podcast Matt and Chris mentioned on this ep?

Nancy Hale

Chris & Matt unveil their hidden talents for doing impressions with a spot-on Francis.

Dries T.

Not to try to stir anything, but the grind discussion made me wonder once again how the heavily skewed division of labour between Matt and Chris never seems a real issue. Chris shoving all that coal til way past bedtime, while Matt effortlessly picks up most of the charm points - and jokes about how little work he's putting in. But then I do suspect Chris would be hate-listening to and cataloging guru behaviour just as diligently (some might even say obsessively?) even if the podcast didn't exist, because he can do no other... Respect to you both - doing the lord's work!

Martin 🇧🇻

To defend Sam Harris a little bit - as a fellow coward I also don't usually confront people about everything I disagree with them on. Especially if I bring it up and hear them deflecting. You have to remember that Harris is a rich kid who travelled the world, meditated, surfed and so on - just generally being a "chill" guy, and not the kind of guy to harshly confront someone. I also have a feeling that Sam probably tried to talk to Dave Rubin as more of friend about the critisism, and then realized that Dave is a bad person interpersonally as well when you even mildly disagree with him. It's also possible to be friends with someone even if you totally disagree with them on particular topics. To me that just means Sam Harris is human (and not the robot I always suspected him to be). That probably doesn't make him a great public intellectual, though.

Nancy Hale

Thinking a bit about Sam’s “ethical dilemma” in criticizing people in his friend circle vs Matt’s comfort with disagreeing with colleagues. Although Sam & his ilk claim to care primarily about Truth and present themselves as brave straight shooters, loyalty seems to be a more important value in these circles. Public criticism and disagreement is viewed as a personal betrayal. Maybe that’s a characteristic of the prevailing narcissism of among the current guru & pundit spheres. I’m sure personal loyalty is valued in academia (from what I recall being on its fringes for years) but I don’t think reasonable, defensible disagreement with a colleague is seen as some kind of betrayal. In academia people routinely criticize the work of their former mentors and collaborators, but I think it’s rarely seen as a personal affront to do so. Examples of bad public falling-outs exist of course but they’ve struck me as the exception.

Salex

Matt, I grew up in south east Queensland, what the hell is with the pronunciations!?! Hal-key-on? LMAO

Salex

Does Francis think the truth is Tinkerbell? What if I don't believe in fairies?!

Inspiratio Podcast

Chris vs Sabine.. I mean Chris what do you expect after such a hard dunk😅. Albeit true, it's gonna make someone very defensive.

Elissa

Dunno why but all the ‘hard work’ talk reminded me of this Nicole Kidman ‘interview’. (A cringe fest if you ask me) . 5’20” mark - Nicole: “…acting is 99 percent hard work and 1 percent glamour…” Said as she sashays her choreographed self around her rehearsed-intimate home tour in an immaculate white full length frock. Supposedly the very picture of ‘farm life’ https://youtu.be/kI2ucw7hP34?si=HzZD0xl2x-NZFtib

Trees

Looks like Sam went on Rogan 8 times over 6 years. Were they also hanging out together on the reg? I'd understand Sam's ethical dilemma more if Joe was like his life long friend or something, but seems like their relationship is not that deep and pretty much centered around having thoughts on mic. Only seems natural you'd also criticize those thoughts if they are wrong.

Karen 🇨🇦🇺🇸

I think his ethical dilemma is that he criticized him on a different podcast in public. This culture prioritizes “nice” and most people are cowards.

Paul Ditta

Konstantin Kisin is such a tit.

Not Insane

Ah that master showman Elon... eschatonblog.com has been pointing out his scams along with the credulity of all the politicians and "smart" people for years. A veritable PT Barnum except more of a PT Botha for short, and there's legions of suckers going online every minute.

David Robinson

What’s Josh done to get that reference at the end?

David Robinson

Kudos to Sam for the self reflection but then he says he’s just been on Triggernometry. I mean ffs